Welcome into another Clippers Talk. I'm Adam Oslin another one move over, DJ CALLI or whoever says that, yes, they continue, stack them deep and sell them cheap. That's what I always say. That's what we're doing here on Clippers Talk. I don't care that it's Labor Day weekend. This is a labor of love and we have more content to bring you here on the new YouTube channel side. It's always been a podcast, at least for the last seven
years or so. Now, if you want to see me, if you want to see some of the graphics I put up for a Friday show where I talked about it beats zoo Box and that new contract extension with graphics and videos, you can go to at clippers Talk on YouTube for that. I'm at follow out of May. Welcome in everyone. I do have some interesting news coming up later on the show and some of future episodes later this week. But first I want to bring in
our guests. You can already see them. It's a little bit awkward because I haven't figured that that part out yet, but we have loup ucas hand don't call him Han from the two to one three Hoops Empire, which he is the proprietor and owner of We've had many of his contemporaries on, many of his co workers on this show, and it was well past due time to bring on Lucas hand. Don't call him Han here on Clippers Talk. I think from Seattle, Lucas.
How we doing Portland Portland?
Fuck? Oh sorry I say that either way. Uh, Portland's also start for basketball. In some ways, you could say.
Right start for good basketball for shure.
Right right right, Okay, let's get into this. Thanks for doing this, my friend, and I'm sorry for taking too long. The show has only been the youtubes have only been going off for like three weeks. Okay, don't get Jack, No, I.
Get it you. You've been pumping out these episodes. It's been a great series. I think it's really cool for Clippers fans to be able to kind of see all the different folks creating content, covering theme from different angles one after the other on the channel. And I guess you just kind of are reaching point now where you got to scrape the bottom of the barrel and it's good to be here.
How dare you? How dare you? That's where like the best buttery popcorn is the bottom of it, like, come on, man, stay with the best for last. As I told you off the air, All right, let's start with the Viza Zubots. So I did a show on this on Friday. We had a Clips and Dip with Chuck and Will. We had a live at five also, as we are part of the two point three Hoops Empire Love the jam of the podcast is where you can find Lucas hand on consistently. But a Viza Zubots gets the contract extension.
I'm guessing you think it's fair value and maybe still a steal in some ways, considering he's just entering his prime and has a chance to outperform the contract.
Yeah, I'm not necessarily sure that I would that I would go steal. I think it's solid value. I think it's I think it's a good price. I think that with Paul George's departure, with what we saw from Zoo linking up with Harden and the playoffs, I think a lot of us have been saying for years now, you know Zoo's ready for a little more responsibility, a little more consistent touches. The conversion rate when he gets the ball in the post is very good. He just doesn't
get a lot of those reps. So yeah, I think he's primed to keep growing into this contract and it is a pretty significant race for him. But the big thing that I think folks have to remember is the way that the NBA salary cap is going to keep increasing with the new media rights deal that the league has. It's projected that in the last year of this extension Zoo just signed, the salary cap will be one hundred
and eighty seven million dollars. So we'll wait and see how the math shakes out with where they put the money and where the raises are across the years of this extension. But if he's making twenty two million in a season where the salary cap is one hundred and eighty seven million and he's as good as he is now as your starting center, that gives you a lot of flexibility to work with to build out the rest of the roster and spend money where you need to spend it.
What do you think his strengths have been so far as a player in this league. He's still relatively young, he just turned he'll be twenty seven, I think throughout almost this entire season, And where do you think he needs to improve in what are the strengths and where are the weaknesses of it beats Zubats' game and what is that value They're already getting a great return on immediately just because this is who he is as a player already.
Yeah, I think, I mean just strengths wise, He's effective as a complimentary player on the court. So when the team is playing well, Zoo tends to really thrive within his role in that defensively protecting the rim. I know he's he's a little slow footed, so it leads to some you know, just from a if you're casually watching a game, you might go, oh, man, he's kind of kind of moving a little slowly out there, right, But
his positioning is good. He's a deternent at the rim and ultimately has been the key player on the clip for the Clippers defensively for a few years now. And offensively, he's efficient when he gets the basketball. He doesn't he doesn't produce a high volume, but he's official when he gets basketball. I think the real area for growth that you would look for in Zoo, especially with Paul George leaving, with James Harden and Kawhi Leonard both aging a little bit.
Zoo is the number three guy on this team, and that means a little bit more leadership. And there are a couple areas where I think that leadership comes in. One is, I mean, infamously, the body language with Zoo. When things aren't going well, he tends to really you know, he gets down on himself, He looks frustrated, he flails his arms, he has a lazy play the next play, and the bad Zoo games can turn really bad because
of that. And I think this is really closely connected to the other piece of this, which is, like I said, complimentary player. So he's had to play so many games as the Clippers iron man without stars in recent years, and he's talked in media availabilities about the frustration that comes with being out there every night and not knowing if Kawhi is going to be out there with him.
And I think that now is the time that we saw this a little bit in this past playoffs where he can say, Okay, actually the team just gave me to twenty million dollars a year contract extension. When the other guys are out, I am the guy and it's not for me to go. Who's going to do this Actually, Zoo is going to need to take a little bit
more of that on. So I think that responsibility, leadership, body language, even stamina, staying on the court, telling himself, you know, you're not a part time starter for a team that wants to go small anymore. You're the guy. So you're going to have to play thirty two plus minutes every single game. You have to be in good enough shape to do that. Those are the challenges I think in the next couple of years for Zoo.
Yeah, so much as given, much as expected. I think that's a great point. I didn't bring that up on Friday. But when he does suffer with his play, it's usually connected to frustration with the referees or there's the infamous play last season of Kawhi telling him he was out of position, and he does get into his head a little bit. He's had a bettitude at times. Younger players tend to have that, but maybe overcoming that is just
about being more involved consistently and being featured more. Now we seem to all believe, you know, people in this podcast network with the Clippers, how important to beats the zubots is and how coming into this season he is their third most important player. I think that should be
common knowledge at this point. Is he going to be treated as such from his teammates and from the coaching staff because we're saying that, and yet he only got twenty six minutes per game last season, which was actually less than the amount of minust he had the year before.
Yeah, I think it's going to be interesting to see. I do think that the Clippers relatively this season have really weak interior depth compared to what we've seen in recent years. You know, Mobamba coming off the bench was a guy who you know, struggled to play regularly on a team that Joel Embiid spent half the season injured on right, So and then you know Kaui at fat power forward we know is going to miss time. Nico is the other power forward. We know they're going to
try to manage his minutes. So I don't know how much small ball we'll see with Nico at center. Beyond that, you go, you know Kobe Brown, Kai Jones, which are real kind of speculative. You would hope for at least one of those guys to have a breakout year as a depth piece, but but you can't count on it. I think they're going to need Zoo for a heavy
minutes load this year. I think that it's going I'm not sure that it's going to look very good when Zoo isn't on the court, and that probably means, you know, he can't play forty minutes a night. No one does in the NBA at this point. But yeah, he's probably going to need to play thirty two to thirty six for them to be competitive a lot of nights.
So you're thinking average minutes above thirty this season somewhere in that ballpark.
Yeah, thirty two. I would say thirty to thirty two. I think it has to be.
I like it. I like it, and that mitigates some of the issues with the backup big position. And he did play thirty two minutes per game in that series against the Dallas Mavericks and really proved himself after what I thought was a down series the year before against the Phoenix Suns where he could have really showed out and thrived a little bit more and didn't. In fact, I think in that Game five it was Mason Plumley who made the big impact actually in the second half
when they mattered that comeback. But Avita Subats has been one of my favorite players because I feel like he has been a little bit overlooked and people haven't understood the importance of him, And you bring up how it's not gonna look pretty when he's not on the court. It hasn't. For the most part. They were about three points better per one hundred possessions defensively last season the Clippers when he was on the court versus the off numbers.
He has done an admirable job of being that last line of defense, and I feel like he's one of the more overlooked players in the league. Do you think he's gonna get his just dues now? They're gonna there's gonna be little bit more attention around him because I think this is that year where he could easily be on an All defensive team.
Finally, I'm not sure. I don't know, just because center is such an important position defensively across the league. There's so many good defensive centers, and I think Zoo for being in the role player tier is you know, very very good. He's at kind of at the top of the role player tier of centers, but there's that all star tier of centers that you're competing with when you talk about those end of season awards, you know, Rudy Gobert, bam Adebayo, Joel Embiid, Anthony Davis, Right, I'm just not
sure that you see. I don't think we'll reach a point where you start seeing some of those guys get left off of lists in Zoo's favor.
Can we go over a little bit, because I have said that Abatsa Zoo Bots is already a top ten He might be ninth or ten, but I think if you go through the list, he is a top ten center currently because there just aren't that many guys that are looked at his focal points of an offense that are centers in the league anymore. There are a handful of them. And I have a list here and this is just going off of Hollinger's player efficiency rating, just to see where he lands there. Last season, he wasn't
top ten there. He was eighteenth. Now it's depending upon a lot of things, but I'm just looking at your opinion and where we both might.
Land on this.
If I throw out a name, you tell me if this guy's better than Big Zoo, and we can see if we can find ten guys that are ahead of him at the center position, consistently at the center position. As we know nowadays, guys will move up a lot. Joe el Embiid obviously ahead of him. Yo gets you ahead of him? Chris STAPs PORZINGI, Yeah, Victor wembin Yama, you know, yes.
Yeah, yeah, I think probably first half of the season. No, second half of the season. Yes, but you think about the going forward, it's a no brainer, right yeah.
Uh Andre Drummond carl Tarts guy is three points footer marksman. Uh Andre Drummond. No, So we got four guys ahead of Big Zoo so far. Uh Mark Williams from Charlotte. No at the sixth best pr.
Yeah well formula stats man, Yeah, a spreadsheet.
More that coming up a little bit. Uh Shon plays subcenter, he's on the list.
Yeah, he's a better player than Zoo.
So we're going with five there. Here's an interesting one because this guy just got paid, and he got paid more. He got a bigger extension than a Visa Zoo boss. Jared Allen fear the Fro from the Cleveland Cavaliers.
I think I think these guys, these two are probably a lot closer than folks think but if if you took money out of the equation and you just told me one of them is going to play for my team tonight, I would take Jared Allen.
Okay, so that's six guys ahead of Zoo. The only case I would make for Zoo in this situation is how bad Jared Allen was against the New York Knicks and a physical series in the first round a couple of years ago, where he said the lights were too bright, and that quote has haunted him since. But he was better this past year. I do like Jared Allen. I think it's close.
I think it's I think it's probably a lot closer than maybe your average fan of other teams would would think. Right, And I think that also, you know, think about when Zoo first got into the playoffs, right, the lights were too bright for Zoo too. He might not have just
said it, but but they were. And so I think allow younger than Yeah, I think if you the Clippers have done a pretty good job of Look, you need to space the floor around a guy like Zoo, and the Evan Mobley is such a talented young player that the Cavaliers are just kind of trying to make it work but him not quite developing into a shooter and Alan being strictly around the rim guy has led to some congestion for them, which is created. I think that
Zoo would have issues. This is why I've I've said, you know, at times when it's been talked about the Clippers acquiring certain guys to help out at power forward, can they play with Zoo? Is it going to be effective offensively? You know, just off the top of my head, a guy like a role player that's been talking about, guy like Jared Vanderbilt. I don't think Vando could really play the foe next to Zoo because I think it would be too easy to defend. So yeah, I mean
I would, I would still I would lean Alan. I feel pretty comfortable with that.
So six guys then ahead of Zoo. Currently putting Nevin Mobley in that mix. He can play some center obviously.
Yeah, but he primarily plays four. So we're calling I'd.
Leave him out, yeah, okay, uh Daniel Gafford Zoo. Yeah, so still just six guys Capella.
Zoo crushed him in the playoffs.
That that should be abundantly clear to everybody. Zoo's ahead of him after what we just saw click Capella.
I'm gonna take Zoo over Capella. Capella's Capella's twenty twenty four of its name value more than production.
Uh Mo Wagner, he plays sub center. I don't come on. Yeah, uh they are on sharp.
I'm gonna take Zoo.
Yeah, Bam bauta byo bamn. There's seven okay, seven guys ahead of Zoo right now. A Clipper killer. His career high happened against the Clippers. His team typically always beats the Clippers. He is no longer with that team. I'm gonna take Zoo over foal Yonas Valancnis.
Yeah.
Yeah. His defense isn't there now. He's just stretch big and people are gonna point to that. Some people would say, though, that he's a better center. A lot of people would say that. I don't think they realize. Defensively, it's a no contest in favor of beats the Zoo bots well.
And I think if you only watched his games against the Clippers in recent seasons, you would go, man, this this guy is like you know, Larry Bird ors like he's he's like the shooting big but like last season he shot one and a half. Three is a game at thirty one, which is not I mean he was less of a stretch big last year than Daniel Tice.
Mm, that's saying something. Uh, oh, you got here Miles Turner.
Yeah, this is a really interesting one.
We're at second so far.
I think Miles and Zoo are great foils three each other because they their approach to the position is so different. I'm inclined to say that before Miles Turner got Tyrese Haliburton, Zoo was the more productive player. Miles Turner playing with Tyrese Halliburton was more productive last season than Zoo was. What does that mean if you're trying to put these
guys in different contexts. If the Pacers called today and said we want to trade you Turner for Zoo, I would say no. But if the Clippers called, the patients would say no. Also, this is probably this is maybe the toughest one on the list.
It's a fit thing. Yeah, that's interesting. How about we say even.
Doesn't I would say yeah, I would still.
Just seven guys ahead of him. They may fall in the exact same spot, and that is a tough one. This one may not be so tough.
Rudy Gobert, it's Rudy for all his flaws. Again going back to what we're saying about with Alan, right, if you're talking about production for the contract, but if you're just saying we're picking a team we're playing tonight, you know, it's hard to argue with Rudy.
DeAndre.
What's the weather like.
If you talk about it beats the Zoo bots being moody and having bad body language earlier. Now we come to DeAndre.
If it's an icy day, I'm taking Zoo.
But I'll take I just know what I'm getting more.
I think you know what you're getting more. You know. Again, I'm here in this kind of context situation where it's like, if I have a good team and I need to win a game tonight, I'm taking Zoo. But if I was had an expansion team starting today, I would probably take Ayton, you know better.
For a situation like Portland.
Yeah, and I think it was you know, it was just a year ago when the Suns traded Aighton to Portland that Rob and I were both kind of in agreement that, you know, if you could put together that Eric Gordon contract that the Clippers ended up releasing, and and Zoo and some package to get the talent upgrade and get younger with Ayton that even for the pitfalls, you kind of have to do it. The year in Portland really didn't go well for DeAndre. I mean I
saw it up close. You know, a handful of times the motor's not there, you know, But how much of that is I would say at this point, I think I would lean Zoo, but I'm I'm still not all the way out on eight even though I know I know a lot of people are.
I agree with that, So we stick with eight guys currently ahead of Big Zoo on the list. Here's a good one. He just got paid as and Asaiah Hartenstein, former Clipper, I predicted, you go, okay, see it is gonna be a problem. They're gonna win sixty games.
Yeah.
I think they're gonna be the number one seed again.
I think based on last season heading into next season, Hartenstein is the more productive of the two players. Zoo has a has a more consistent track record of health and lower downside in terms of things with Hartenstein that you worry about, like the foul rate that can keep him out of games. Right, So again, if we were projecting forward, like for three years, I think Hartenstein is a much bigger question marks who is a much more
stable guy. But if we're saying, you know, the top ten centers in the NBA last season, Hartenstein would would edge Zoo out on the list, I.
Think, And basically we're saying, who would you rather have today?
Hmm.
That's there's a case to be made for Hartenstein, clearly.
Yeah, but.
It's not in the landslide. It's really close. We could we could call it even again, or you could say hard and Stein above him and that would make nine.
Yeah, you know, I'm gonna say, uh, I'm gonna I'm gonna say, still a slight edge to Zoo.
Okay, Okay, it remains eight guys in fron can I defense has a larger body of work.
Yeah, and I'll say for for the for how good he was in New York last year, right starting a lot, playing twenty five minutes a game. Obviously, he has some versatility as a passer that that eludes Zoo still. But you know, the average last year for Hartenstegin was eight and eight. He had big moments, He played well in
the playoffs. He stepped into a role with with Mitchell Robinson, injured and produced well late in the season, but we still are you know, we just haven't seen the like, is this guy going to average a double double over a full season as the team's go to guy? Is he going to stay healthy, He's going to play Minutes's he going to avoid fouls? I think there's enough question marks there that that I still would lean Zoo, but
it wouldn't surprise me. I wouldn't be surprised to see both guys play, you know, seventy five games this year in their respective roles, and Hartenstein being more productive.
And I think if Eats Zubos is the type of player with the bag that he has on the block, that would have an easier time getting to fifteen point a game average than Isaiah Hartenstein, who has a really good floater. But then a lot of it's dependent on him getting the basketball in the right spots and being more of a rim runner, where Eats Zubots could I soo a little bit more and give you more down in the painted area their offensive games. Zoo's just a little more refined, but it's closed.
Zoo's definitely more refined as a as a throw it into him in the post option I think Hartenstein is more refined as a as a role man because of that floater. But also his passing ability is clear of Zoo's. So it's you know, kind of system dependent. But yeah, that's a it's a tight one. But I would I would actually lean Zoo still. I think Hertenstein, for all the hype, you know, was an eight and eight guy last year, not a not a fifteen to twelve guy.
So we're at eight guys right, eight guys in front of Zoo, clearly in front of Zoo. Uh yaka peerl Zoo Now, Carl Anthony Towns?
Are we calling him? Are we calling him a five?
I know I don't want to because do you Gobert is there?
He does? He hasn't been playing center for two years.
Nick Claxton, and I'm going to Zoo right now for sure.
Claxton, I think is really interesting.
But Zoo, Jalen darn.
Again. You know, if we were building a team for you know, an expansion team and we're trying to set up for a longer window, you know, you Duran is a really promising young guy. Zoo right now is the guy who has been starting on playoff teams. I think you feel just a little more comfortable with, you know, especially that high floor defensively in terms of what he can provide. But this is a this is a tough one.
I mean again, I'll say it. I think what I've said a few times, which is, if you if I need to win a game tonight, or if I'm saying, you know, who's going to be the better center in this upcoming season, I'll take Zoo. But if I was if I was drafting an expansion team, I would take Duraan hands down.
Yeah, it's not clear cut. It needs to be clearly this guy is better or else Ty goes to big, big Zoo. I guess in this situation, here's some good ones. Derek Lively, Zoo.
I like Lively a lot, but Zoo.
Big upside, Walker Kessler, M.
Yeah, Kessler, Kesler. I feel like the hype kind of cooled a little bit after kind of bursting onto the scene. Replacement Rudy Gobert putting up you know, kind of similar block numbers and on off defense numbers. I would go Zoo over Kessler, although I think Kessler's another guy I think is intriguing going forward.
Nikolabusovich. No, that guy sinks use of Nurkic. No, Nick Richards, No, it's it's a Mitchell Robinson. There was a time.
Are we taking health? Are what are we saying about health?
Let's let's say they're healthy, because I don't think he's had I know he hasn't been the iron Man Zoo Whiz, but outside this past season, he's been healthy for the most part.
Mitchell Robinson, I think that these are these are guys who are probably in uh the same, you know, a really similar tier. But I would I would lean Zoo for durability and uh, you know, I think just a little more a little higher floor defensively in terms of what he does for a team.
And I spoke too soon. Mitchell Robinson only played fifty nine games last season. A couple of years before that it was just thirty one. So the durability point is, uh, it's a good one here.
And if the Knicks, if the Knicks called the Clippers and offered that, I would say no. Yeah, And I think I think if the Clippers called, I think the Knicks would take it.
What if the Milwaukee Bucks called an Offord brook Lopez.
You know I would say no because age, you know, you just can't quite get past that with especially with the extension that they just got Zo on on the price that they just got him on. You know, you have you know, and whatever if he's top ten or not, right, but you know, you have a good, above average starting center locked in at a reasonable price for the next four seasons. Brook Lopez isn't going to be in the NBA for four more seasons.
Yeah he's thirty six. Al Horford, no, no, you love Al Horford, but but yeah, Mobaba on the Mason Plumby is in Phoenix and we saw that. What no, Carter Junior, Yeah, that's.
An interesting one.
I would thought about him in a while.
Yeah, yeah, uh huh, we think about I think Wendell is one of those guys that at a certain point looked like he could be on a trajectory towards being, you know, pretty clearly higher on this list, and I think has settled in more so into that role player tier. What he does bring you is just a little more versatility.
The shooting is real there, you know, three attempts a game, thirty seven percent from deep, but the rebounding and interior defense are not quite at the level that Zoo is there's not quite the same track record there of first of all, durability, which we just talked about. I mean, he's never played more than sixty two games in a season in six years and Zoo's track records. Is being a durable starter on a playoff team, I think I would I would still go Zoo, But Wendell is a
nice player. I think they're in the same tier. Zoo is just ranked higher in that tier for me.
Yeah, he's one of those guys in the mix next to Zoo, but he's not obviously clearing him. Eleven and seven last season, he played about twenty six minutes per game, just like Zoo. But as you mentioned, it looked like a couple of years ago when he was getting fifteen and eleven, he was on the fast track to passing zoue Bye, that did not happen. Wiseman No, No Dwight Powell, no daniel tys Now, Jackson Hayes, no Tristan Thompson, no Isaiah Stewart.
Hardcore, But is Anthony Davis the center for you?
Yeah, I'll put him in there because.
Because he might you know, I know, he might show up on as a power forward on some lists. But I kind of think of him as a center now.
They honestly didn't put him on this list, but I when they're at their best, he's playing center.
So yeah, he's best at center. Their best with him at center, and I think that, you know, in the last couple of years, they've leaned into that a lot more. I mean, just looking at at Basketball Reference, you know, one hundred percent of his minutes two seasons ago, ninety seven percent of its minutes last season at center. So I would put him there, and he obviously would be clear of Sue as well.
So Zoo is tenth, with a few guys next to him that you could lean towards different strokes for different folks, different situations. You might want them over beat to Zoo bots, but he clearly is right there for having an argument for being a top ten center in the NBA.
Yeah, I think you don't want.
To hear it.
Guys, if you base based on that list that we just did, if you were to say, you know, I think you could reasonably put Zoo ten, eleven, twelve, maybe thirteen. There are a few guys there that I think, you know, like a guy like Miles Turner, I know a lot of folks, you know, see shooting and just can't look
at anything else that doesn't happen on the court. But uh yeah, I mean I think I think if you told me, and if you told me before we start with, you're like, yeah, Zoo's probably like between tenth and fifteenth. That feels like a comfortable range to me. He's solid. He's an above average starter, but he's not in that elite tier. He's not going to compete for All Star appearances.
And you know, at under twenty million dollars a year average annual value, with the way that the salary cap is going, that's a I wouldn't call it a steal, but I would say it's a solid value.
You may want Miles Turner over him. You may want Isaiah Hartenstein, you may want Walker Castler, Wendell Carter, these guys, Jalen Duran, you know, but Zoo's right there. He's right there, and for this Clippers team, I think he made some good points for this team where they're at. And I am intrigued when we talk about it beats the Zubats getting the ball and going to work. I think what he's showed in that series against the Dallas Mavericks was
illuminating for some people. I've been saying for years, you can tell me if I'm crazy, Lucas, but he has far more skill level than anybody realizes. He is a long lost Gas Saul brother at times, like what he was doing with the left hand in game one of that series against Dallas where he was their best player in game one. I don't think people understand Zoo really is a bucket if you give him the opportunity.
And if he can handle that workload with more consistency, I think, right, like, we have to acknowledge that a lot of times, guys, every NBA player, I mean we've how many guys have we seen have thirty point games and not be in the league the next year? Right, every NBA player has a skill level to get to that point. But can you get to that skill level consistently when opposition knows that you're the guy they need to prepare for. Right, So for you to have a
big twenty twenty game is great. I'm not saying that he that we should expect him to be consistently at twenty twenty, but if he's going to have those types of games, like, however, many games last year. I would have to look through and be like, how many games
were like Zoo games? Right? Maybe five? Well, if we want him to have twenty games that are Zoo games, that's going to mean more minutes, more workload, and he's going to show up more on scouting reports, which means teams are gonna there's less likely that he's going to catch a team sleeping with Oh you know, yeah funnel let them throw the ball in the post, right. I think a lot of teams right now say yeah, if they're gonna throw it into zoo, let him throw it
into zoo. That means we don't have to worry about James, we don't have to worry about Kauai. And even though he's efficient in those moments everyone gets to stand and breathe for fifteen seconds, they're only going to do it three times a game anyway, right, So we're not gonna lose on it to be more like no this, We're actually gonna keep feeding him. He's gonna mayhap manage that workload, maintain his efficiency, force defenses to adjust to him. That is a really big next step.
So we went through the list. We said, there's definitively nine guys ahead of Zoo and a handful of guys in the mix with him. To close out the Zoo talk here, Lucas, how many points is going to average this season? How many boards is he going to get? Or where does he need to be you think? And what's realistic for this Clippers team to be successful and to have a chance to stay out of the play in.
Yeah, I mean I think that well, to stay out of the play and it's going to be tough, you know, And I'm not sure right staying out of the play in has a lot more to do with how many games Kawhi Leonard plays than whether Zoo is at fourteen points a game or sixteen points a game.
You know, But say, if I give you sixty Kawhi games sixty five plus from James Harden, then what does Zoo need to contribute enough to keep him out?
Yeah? You know, well, the biggest the first thing is the minutes, right, which we already talked about, because it's one thing to say, you know, what's he going to average per game? But they need his presence on the court for thirty two plus minutes a game and that will lead to higher per game averages. Right, Because he's playing more minutes, he has more opportunities to do things. Last season, he averaged sixteen points and twelve and a
half rebounds per thirty six minutes. So if he can play thirty two minutes a game and average sixteen points and twelve rebounds, that would be a phenomenal season for Vitza Zubots. If he can average sixteen points and twelve rebounds in thirty two minutes, I think you would that's a high end outcome. I think you would look back on that at the end of the year and say we could not possibly have asked him for anything more.
Yeah, No, I think that's a good way to put it. And I'm I'm predicting about sixteen and eleven, seventeen and ten somewhere in there. I think it's within the realm of possibility.
Fifteen and twelve would be kind of my my benchmark, you know. It's just it's a it's the minutes, right, because if he only plays twenty eight minutes a game, he's not going to average fifteen and twelve, And then you're starting looking cool. Can he average fourteen and ten?
Right?
But if he plays thirty two minutes a game, you know, fifteen and eleven, right, That's that's right around where I would be be looking.
And I have faith if you give him the minutes, he'll give you the production. It's yet to be proven because he's never gotten the consistent minutes. And therefore, when we talk about Big Zoo being inconsistent at times, and we talk about the up and down play, some of it's built in just because he doesn't know his role that night. I'm interested to see what conversations they're going to have behind the scenes coming into this season of what the expectations are from the coaching staff for Eats
the Zoo Bots. But we can move on from that, and this kind of ties in a little bit. We talked about it a little bit off the air, but I was having a conversation with somebody last night. You mentioned it Eats the Zoo Bots and just his production going up because he gets the minutes. Because a few people said, yikes, almost twenty million a year with this extension for a guy that is averaged nine to seven. When you look at his career numbers and it's like, dude,
that's off of twenty one minutes per game. That's that's not indicative of who he is today or who he can be if you give him more minutes. It's pretty meaningless, actually, But that is a basic traditional stat that people are looking at and evaluating a player off of. And then last night I have a conversation with the guy something totally non Clippers related, and this made me think of you, because I think you're very articulate about these things and
you have a great basketball mind. But we were talking about goat conversations. Of course, it was on X and somebody brought up Kobe Bryant, and it was a conversation with Gilbert Arenez, who says a lot of wild stuff for attention, but I think in this particular subject matter, he actually made a good point that I agree with and I've been saying for a while. Kobe mimicked second
three PT MJ. Those moves, his post moves. That's the MJ that Kobe was studying, and that's the guy who he looked like throughout most of his career, as opposed to eighties Jordan through the first three Peat, which was a much more athletic player, springy. He had explosiveness at times that Russell Westbrook has had in this league. Okay, put that aside, But then the guy said, you know, well, Kobe Bryant shot five percent less with his overall career
fueld goal percentage than Michael Jordan. So he was saying, this is a Jordan decide. He's not even close to him. And I brought up the point that well, field goal percentage is almost an antiquated way to look at the overall numbers and productivity because it has three point percentage built in. And Kobe took far more threes than mj did and actually shot about four or five percent better from beyond the arc, even though he wasn't great at it,
just thirty two percent. The volume was there, and the volume is very meaningful. And if you look at points per shot attempt or points per possession, they're closer true shooting percentage effective field goal percentage. They're much closer than you might realize when it comes to how good they were A scorers efficiency was how do you help people understand arguments like this, because I could really never get
through to the guy. He could never understand why teams take more threes and he's talking about the only team that has been successful and won championships with a bunch of threes. Would be Steph Curry with the Golden State Warriors. Like, Hello, the Boston Celtics just won taking the most threes in the league. And every team that does win now is taking far more threes than they ever did ten years ago, fifteen years ago, thirty years ago. It's incredible because of the math.
It's not even just every team that wins, it's every team, right, yeah, like everyone is taking more threes than they took ten years ago. And you know, I mean, I how you explain it to someone who you know doesn't doesn't understand the math is challenging, But it's just I really think that for me, when I really started souring on the
mid range game. And I'm not sour on the mid range game, I mean I was, you know, I was a pick and roll point guard and the mid range pull up is part of what you have to do to make those reads over the course of the game. But you take it, take it out of the context of is this a good shot? Right, It's not about this shot, this shooter on this possession in a rhythm
opened the way that it's not about this shot. It's about one hundred shots, and how many of those one hundred shots do you need to make for it to be good for the game, right, for your offense to produce enough over the course of the game. And it breaks down to, you know, point per possession. And if you are shooting, a great mid range shooter might make forty five percent of their eighteen foot pull ups. That's a great mid.
Range shot, like Coli is at forty seven percent for his career from ten to sixteen feet out. For example, Jordan was great in the mid range.
A lot of guys who are considered like good mid range shooters, like you know, a guy like Jamal Crawford in his prime was shooting you know, thirty eight forty forty two depending.
On the year was at slow was that forty one percent for his career And everybody thinks he's some mid range god because it looks pretty when they go in.
Well and volume, right, because ultimately mid range shots are going to be they're the ones that you get stuck in latent possession, high difficulty looks, and so you know, being able to kind of pull a rabbit out of a hat is or to do it in isolation against the post when the defense is locked in, right that there's there's a lot of value to guys who can do it. We see the best players in the NBA
still are really proficient at it. But if a guy shooting forty five percent, which is elite, over one hundred shots, that means you're generating zero point nine points per possession on those hundred shots. If a guy is shooting thirty five percent from three, which is you know, for a long time was kind of considered the marker of average, and now because of the way the three point game has moved on, is actually kind of below average for a
premier player in the NBA. Right, thirty five percent to go, he's not really a shooter. That guy is producing one point zero five points per possession. So if we play one hundred possession game back and forth, which most NBA games are a little less than that, Right, but I'm gonna beat you one hundred and five to ninety, and it's gonna take a lot of variance. Bad shooting night for me, good shooting night for you, you could win. But fifteen points is a big gap to close. So it's
just about adjusting that diet. Like I said, you still need to take those mid range shots to keep the defense honest. You're still gonna be forced into some laden possessions, right or when the defense it takes away your primary choice or whatever, you're still gonna need them. That skill set is still important, but you want to look for
other things. And what happens when you when you prioritize trying to create those more efficient shots and the league learns and adjusts to that, you're actually going to get higher quality midrange looks than you were before because the three point shot is being overplayed, and that's where you start to have a chance to then get even more efficient and shoot in those high forties or even into
the fifties sometimes from mid range. Whereas when you're a guy's who's going to go, you know, dribble, dribble, crossover, pick and roll, pull up, contested eighteen footer, that's going to just be thirty eight percent the whole time.
That's a really smart, easily digestible way to put it. I've always said, for instance, going back to the argument with Kobe taking more threes than MJ and how that factors into field goal percentage, why you shot five percent less? You know, I told the guy. Look at it this way. If you're shooting thirty three percent from three, that would be considered bad, and that's where about Kobe was at
throughout his career. But that's also the equivalent thirty three point three percent from three of shooting fifty percent from two. So even when you're shooting almost three percent less the league average from three, it still isn't that bad of a shot over you know, so many taken with the volume. Because the Boston Celtics, that's exactly what they shot in
the NBA Finals, thirty three percent from three. They weren't even shooting a great percentage, and they still ended that series in five because they took sixty more threes than the Dallas Mavericks.
Yeah, and I would say, you know, you can just look at two point percentage too, right, Like Jordan was fifty one percent on twos in his career. And again, when I say you know, forty five PERCENTAGEGA, I'm talking about mid range specifically, not all twos, because obviously layups and dunks are going to be higher. Kobe was forty eight percent on twos in his career, So that's still that three percent gap on that diet of shots over over twenty thousand shots over a decade career for both guys.
That's that three percent gap is significant.
Oh yeah, I was trying to say Kobe was as good as MJ. Like, I'm just saying it's closer than you realize when it comes to efficiency.
But the yeah, the that's one of the things. You look. You see a lot of guards in the NBA. Now, sometimes you go and you look at a guard who is shooting, you know, forty one percent from the field, and you're initially actually like, oh god, forty one percent from this guy is so inefficient, and then you realize, well, actually he's shooting thirty eight percent from three and forty
eight percent from two, which is totally good. He just takes five times as many threes as he does too, Yeah, you know.
Seven of his ten shots per game or threes.
Yeah. I mean, you know, the best guy to talk to about this would be uh Shane Young, who is just obsessed with not using field goal percentage in anything anymore. He's like leading the crusade.
I've agree with him. I don't know if I agree with him about all the CP three stuff he says, or I do agree with the sphex I was turning into the San Antonio Spurs. That didn't happen. But we've had taken our lamps with the Clippers. Yeah, I just it is. It's antiquated now. In the playoffs, things slowed down, and Kawhi has talked about this, but they use examples of the best guys ever in the mid range. It's like, well, that's not who ninety nine point nine percent of the
league is. So that's not a real good reason for taking more of those shots. If you're really elite at it, yes you should take them, because in the playoffs often they're giving up those shots. And Kawhi has mentioned that before that they're giving him the mid range and he studied MJ, and MJ was a mid range god and Kobe, I think part of the reason this two point percentage is three percent less than than MJ's is by other point,
was Kobe actually had more moves than MJ. Because he took all of MJ's and then built his own two. They weren't necessarily a sufficient and he took way more bad shots out there. And he's probably the best bad shot takers, either him or Kyrie, because once in a while they would go in and it would look amazing, but he also took so many unnecessary shots. So that's that's how you get the feel goal percentage also going down.
But I just yeah, it's it's an interesting conversation just trying to convert people and make them understand the modern game a little bit more, and how do you do so without sounding like a d bag and a stat nerd And then they'll just go back to well, winsord losses and that's all that matters, or six rings and things like this. It's it's it's a tough environment on Twitter sometimes lucas all the time.
Yeah, you know, my advice would be spend less time on Twitter.
Oh that's that's a salient point too, that that simplifies it distills it down to something really simple. Uh, should Paul George stay off of Twitter? I heard that he's off of social media on Instagram. I wasn't sure if that was true or not. I know podcast p as a heavy presence on Twitter with his guys there too. The social media guru.
Yeah, yeah, the guru with anytime you have a guru, you know, I want.
To ask you about Paul George because you've been on record. I think the last time he came on Clips and Dip you called him, what.
Was the word loser?
A loser, Yeah, loser. I wanted you to expand and expound on that and why you would say such a flammatory language about Paul George and what you mean by that, and give you the opportunity to explain, because it's not like you're the only guy who has said that over the years.
Sure. Yeah, but but I'll just uh, I'll start by saying, you know, the people are on my side, Adam, I don't need to I don't need to defend my.
I'm learning, I've learning.
I would here's here's what I would say. It's there's loser in the literal sense of like, hasn't won a championship, right, And I think that that is tends to be a really cheap way to talk about basketball and about the NBA, because you know, like, is Jamal Murray a winner? Yeah? Right, I mean it's hard to say he is. It sure got lucky with that situation with Jokic in Denver, though, right, I think there's lots of other guys who aren't anymore
or less. They're not they're not necessarily, Jamal is not necessarily a better player than them. He's I'm not saying Jamal is a bad player, that he's not a high character guy. I'm saying there's lots of other really good players with really high character who didn't end up drafted to Denver.
With Yokic, that's often circumstantial.
Yeah, and so you know, just to say, oh, he hasn't won a title, I mean, Paul George has done a lot of winning in his career, just not in the NBA finals. What I think more, what I mean by that is he does not take responsibility, either in the moment or after the fact. He's not honest about him He's not honest with himself. He's not honest about himself. He blames others. And then when he's in the moment and you need someone to be the guy, he doesn't
want it. And that, to me is the is the indictment. The going into this series, this past series withou Kawhi Leonard and saying, yeah, James, you go guard Kyrie. I'm gonna guard Derek Jones Junior. That is what I'm talking about, right, or going into these games where he takes seven field goal attempts or where he just he puts up these mid range shots and then never gets to the rim. Never. It seems like he's always waiting for someone else right to do it. And you look around these other stars
in the NBA. They take matters into their own hands, and maybe it's not pretty. Maybe, you know, maybe they have a bad game, maybe they turn the ball over, maybe they lose because the other team was better, but they really go out there and play for it. And it feels like Paul is content to say, yeah, Terrence, let's see what you got. It's like, no, man, you
have to be the guy. And there were moments in Paul George's Clipper tenure where he was the guy, where he really stepped into that twenty twenty one Western Conference Finals run. Right, he was not, you know, the first I don't love saying Paul George carried the Clippers of the Western Conference Finals because we all, we all watched that first round series. You know, Kawhi Leonard was superhuman in the late games against Dallas to make them to get them out of that hole and into the second
round against Utah. But honestly, even though the Clippers lost that Western Conference Final, series to the Suns, And I don't know what his field goal percentage was or whatever, but Paul George was a leader in those games. He took responsibility, he shouldered the workload, he made things happen. He really he knew that if it wasn't him, it wasn't going to happen, and he went out there and did everything he could to make sure it was him. And in the three years since then, he just hasn't
had that approach. And every year it's a complaint about, well, we didn't have this point guard, or we didn't have that coach, or we were running too many of these plays, and it's meant I just like, stop talking, go get the basketball and show everyone how good you are. I don't I think Paul George is a tremendous basketball player, but I don't think the mentality has been there since that Western Conference Finals run that is necessary for him
to be a star player on a winning team. Maybe a change of scenery, new coach, new co stars, new city, maybe that will will reawaken that a little bit in him. But it wasn't happening here. And I was just left by the end of this season just so disappointed. And by the way that he approached his responsibility as a star, as a professional, as a leader. I found all of it to be lacking.
I use the twenty twenty and one run as a shield for a while from criticism on Paul George, but there was nothing I could defend after this last playoff series against Dallas. It was willfully inadequate for the requirements of being a star. His performance or lack thereof. It was tough, and the clothes were tough too, and the B team stuff. It's just unnecessary. I don't get it. Uh mentioned Big Zoo getting his contract quickly? Here Terrence Man next, and what do you think that number could be?
Yeah, really interesting one with Terrence. You know. I think if you were to say, who's like the third most important player for the Clippers next year, obviously got Kawhi and James, right. I think that some folks might say, try to say Terrence before Zoo, and I think Zoo's consistency's a floor razer Defensively, I think Terrence because he's a wing, he's more versatile, he can do more with
the ball in his hands. There's always felt like a little bit more breakout potential there right, But Zoo has clearly been the you know, become the better player of the two of them, although Terrence is still a good player and an important piece of this team. At the same time, you know, the market tends to be difficult for centers and versatile wings tend to get a little
more love financially. I would think that you would probably you know, you always want to get a little bit of a better deal, right, So I think this neo extension came out at nineteen point five million average. I had said, you know, you'd love to have them at eighteen. Nineteen point five is solid. You'd always love if they sign him at eighteen, I would say, yeah, that's great, man, But you would have loved to get it for sixteen, right, So I don't know, Maybe maybe I think a little
less for Terrence. It might be the same number, but could it also could easily be a situation where, you know, these guys are in positions with Paul George leaving that they could look they could really be eyeing breakout years and Terrence might think, you know, he's limited in terms of what he can get on an extension because of
what his current salary is. There's there's math equations in there, right, if he hits free agency, there's no limit, and maybe he thinks that if he has a great year, I mean, if Terrence Man has a breakout year this season as a starting two guard for the Clippers, you look at the money that guys are getting to be solid starters in the NBA right now, right, Like, what was that If you can remember, what was that KCP contract this summer, it's over.
Twenty it's over Orlando. Yea, yeah, it was a big time a shorter deal but high annual return.
Yeah, and that's a guy who's you know, who's older than Terrence Man as well, but also six years championship deigreg Yeah, so you know, I could easily see Terrence being, you know, being younger than KCP going into next summer thinking if he has a really good season, he could be a twenty million plus guy. And now up to I'm not trying to say Terrence is as good as Casey. He's not. He hasn't been in recent years. But he's younger and he could be kind of betting on himself
and looking for that breakout season. So yeah, I mean, I think if a deal gets done, it will be in a very similar range to what we saw with Zoo, maybe around that eighteen low end, sixteen, high end twenty.
But he also could look as a kind of bet on himself guy, and considering the inconsistency with his role for the Clippers over the last few years, and considering that they are very clearly angling to look to add a star free agent in the coming years, and that could result in Terrence, you know, going back to the bench on a reasonable contract. Twenty million dollars is not
necessarily guaranteed starter money anymore in the NBA. The Clippers have a twenty million guy coming off the bench right now at Norman Powell, and that's before the cap increases another thirty million dollars. So yeah, I mean, he could really look at a bet on himself look for somewhere where the money's a little better, where the role is
a little more guaranteed. I'm not totally I'm not totally sure, but they do have there's no deadline for these talks, so all the way until late June, right before free agency opens, they can keep talking. Patients, you know, can be prudent, and I I wouldn't necessarily say, you know, I'm expecting to see a Terence number come in in the next week or so. That's not you know, Intel sources, none of that. Just you know, I'm not holding my.
Breath, okay, And you know that rod In Derreck Jones Junior. So it's interesting to see the playing time factor to be able to put up a breakout season could be a little bit out of his control, of course, and his minutes have been walking in all over the places and his role has been all over the place.
So well, I think it's in I think it's in his control. But he's there's competition for wing minutes. He has to win that competition, right.
Put up those threes. He's got to start.
He's got to get out there. And you know, if the they're going to start James Terrence, Derek Kawhi Zoo, they got to right. And if the offense in that unit isn't good enough, it's very likely that that norm for Terrence is the switch and Derek Jones Junior is not going to do anything with the ball in his hands on offense. He's gonna cut. He's going to be a you know, you hope for average three point shooters
standing in the corner. Terrence is going to have to be the number three, like the secondary pick and roll playmaker. He's going to have to take above the break threes. He's going to have to create with the ball in his hands, you know, as that complimentary scoring wing. He can't just be the I stand in the corner and guard the other team's best player. Guy that's Derek. Now, Terrence has to be a little more of a utility all around creative win and if he does that well enough,
he'll keep that starting job. And if he doesn't, ty is going to be forced to adjust. And if Tye is forced to adjust, Now you enter a bench climate with a mere Coffee who we know is no slouch, with Chris Dunn, who's coming in in a very similar point of attack, defense ball handler mold who knows what the situation is going to be with Kevin Porter Junior as a wing depth option and what he can do
as a scorer. But his efficiency struggles, the potential suspension, the likelihood that he does know something else stupid or illegal that costs him the opportunity to play in the NBA. So there's a lot of variables there, but you know, nothing's guaranteed for Terrence, but the opportunity to earn it will be there.
A couple more for you here, Lucas. I appreciate your time, of course, hopefully your Labor Day weekend.
Listen to.
Schedule out.
Oh we got the love of the gym the pod right after this man.
All right, So as you mentioned it, and I think people's ears perked up when you said it, the Clippers long term plan. You alluded to it of angling for another star because you know, the salary cap, the restrictions them being under the first apron in this case. You were the first to point that out as soon as they gave that non taxpayer mid level exception to Derek
Jones Junior. Just how favorable a position are they in considering they lost Paul George, how they retooled in where the salary structure is headed the next couple of years for them.
Yeah, I mean this is where the Zoo and Terrence extensions become interesting too, because they were in a situation where they you know, they gave James Harden a short term contract, and so they were in a situation where in that twenty twenty six offseason, it was Kawhi and a lot of flexibility, and now they are starting in a way that I think, you know, like I said, the cap is going to be in the last year of this extension, the cap is going to be like
one hundred and eighty seven million dollars. Having a starting center for twenty million is totally that's not going to impede you from doing other things you need to do.
What was it now in the one forties?
Uh yeah, I don't. I don't have it pulled up in front of you. But it's it's going to raise ten percent every year, basically is the the way that it is going to go up. With the new media right steal, they've to avoid another Kevin Durant war years big cap spike. Every team has max space situation. They they're making it so that it can only increase, it can only increase ten percent each year. But with the new media rights deal, it will increase that ten percent.
So it's a I just check, it's one hundred and four threwo point.
Five this year and the cap and my rent going up ten percent every year, shaking hands.
Ten percent of year, yeah, yeah, uh so, so yeah, it's uh, there'll be in a situation where that that future of Hey, it's twenty twenty six. We've got Kawhi Leonard and Mac space. Let's see what we can do. We're still quite a bit of ways from that. Two full years, two full seasons of basketball. How does Kawhi Leonard age decline happen in those two years? How does James Harden's age decline happen in those two years?
What it could be one year for James?
Yeah, it could be right, What does Kawhi's health look like? Is coming to play with a team that is paying Kawhi Leonard fifty million dollars going to be attractive to other star players in twenty twenty six or is it going to be you know, a twilight for a guy who can't run anymore? Right? And are they going to make Keeping that room open for two years requires making a lot of really tough decisions and not maximizing your
current talent. So like extending Zoo works against the twenty twenty six plan, but you know you can, you can try to balance it. You can try to juggle those two competing priorities. But like Norman Powell, you know, Norman Powell is a talented player who helps this Clippers team, especially in a post Paul George world, He's going to be at a point where do you extend him, do you let him walk? Do you trade him and try to recoup some value? And you know, keeping him means
sacrificing some of that twenty twenty six flexibility. And if you go down the line and you make the well, we're going to try to keep this guy, call on everyone. You don't have max space in twenty twenty six anymore. But are you willing to let James Harden and Norman Powell and Terrence man all walk and try to roll out a Kawhi Leonard team that doesn't have those guys around him? If it means that the next year you have a chance at getting someone, and then will someone
even wants to come? So it's very still very speculative. There's a lot of decisions that need to be made in the next twenty four months that will determine if that possibility stays open or not. But I do think it is sort of the short term reaction to losing a player like Paul George is Okay, well, where's our next opportunity for a pivot? And that next opportunity for a pivot in terms of adding an all star type player is two years down.
The road, and the two guys that could be available in twenty twenty six would be Luka Dacic and Shay Gilgess. Alexander am I going light Year's brain if I feel like it's actually better for Okac to win a championship because that would give SG eight the out to be able to leave them. Yes, okay, yeah.
Yeah, so I mean sure, you know, maybe right, or he's.
A legacy player and they're still set up and they have all these picks.
Yeah, you know, maybe.
I don't know. Yeah. Last one for you your role with the two one three Empire, the love of the jam of the podcast and how this all came about, and just because I've been talking a lot about the multimedia landscape and how things are changing and blogs versus blogs and vodcasts and now I'm doing a YouTube and
where everything's going in my business with radio. I'd just be interested to get your thoughts on you know, where two one three is headed, why it started, how you have to evolve or die, and how you have to adapt and just this new media world.
Yeah, yeah, it's a great question. I mean, we could do we could do a whole hour on this, and you know, I've been I've been doing this. I've been in this sphere for a little while now and have some thoughts on trends and trajectories and histories. But really,
you know, we were in a situation, right, folks. I'm sure a lot of folks know the history, but Robert Flahm and I were with esp Nation doing the Clippers blog over there for a long time, and there was some legal stuff with how independent contractor arrangements could work in the stand at California and blah blah blah, and eSPI Nation made the choice to just kind of cut loose a large portion of their blogs to avoid you know, paying folks for their work, and Rob and I, you know,
we decided we just wanted to keep doing it. So we made two and three hoops, and really our mission statement or our sort of guiding principle has just been, you know, we want to have content for Clippers fans, and I think both growing up in La as Clippers fans, even though neither of us live in La anymore. We we went through those ups and downs that that folks listening to this, you know will relate to, or maybe
older fans will relate to. It's been sort of a golden decade if you if you joined the fan base since then. But you know, are we going to have a beat writer at the La Times, right, which we're right back in that boat now where the La Times has really not, you know, has decided not to cover the Clippers despite having a phenomenal, phenomenal writer there, and
Andrew Andrew. Yeah, yeah, we we love Andrew. We've had him, had him on too, So, you know, wanting that space where there's going to be coverage, but it's you know, and there's there's a place for everyone in this landscape, right. So I'm not saying I'm not trying to say that anyone who does things differently than how we do things is wrong or bad. But what the space that we want is. It's Clipper driven, it's Clippers fans, but it
is still more analytical. You don't hear us cheering a lot, right, we're homers.
In a sense, but I hear Rob booing a lot.
Actually yeah, sometimes you hear me booing Rob while he's speaking, right, But but that's us, that's that's the way that we you know, are our We've been friends for over a decade. That's the way that our our friendship is. That's our the blend of our personalities and the way that we see the game and the way that the way that
we relate to this fandom of this team. And we wanted to just create a space because we felt like, you know, the previous the previous site that we had was really the place where that existed for Clippers fans. And you know, if folks are like, we don't want to hear dats, We don't want to hear talk about rotation and who should be playing over who, and we just we want to be fans. And you know, there's that's okay, right, It's okay for folks to connect the game differently, but we wanted to make.
Sure get them.
We wanted to make sure that there was a space for you know, for us to do our thing and for folks who who have that same connection and kind of orientation towards appreciating the team and the game uh
to do that as well. And I think that, you know, in that sense, that was really what motivated me to you know, connect you with Chuck and Will and try to make sure that that was something that could happen, you know, just from a like an incubator perspective, right, like, if there's a way that that we can help foster and facilitate the expanse expansion of quality spaces for Clippers fans to connect online, to get more content about their team,
to fuel that fandom, because that's what has been such a passion for Robin I. Right. So yeah, I mean I don't know if that fully addresses your question, but that's just sort of like where we came from and what we do and why we do it. And I think that other folks out there are doing things differently than we do it, and that's great. I really think that a broader and more diverse Clipper sphere of digital
content is best for fans. And you know, I'm both a Clippers fan, which means it's great for me to have all this great content and diverse voices out there, and I am someone who's spent a lot of time in labor trying to serve Clippers fans, and so seeing seeing the quality and quantity that is available now, you know, really compared to ten years ago or fifteen years ago, you know, I think it's a cool moment to be
a Clippers fan. Sometimes someone comes in and says, hey, I'm looking for a Clippers podcast, you know, and it's like heir to fifteen years ago. Where can you look for to get your like Clippers fix? Right, There's so many options now to find someone who you connect to and enjoy them. So, yeah, well you do great work.
I'm proud to be a part of it. Now with two on three hoops, does the name have to change with Paul, George and Phil.
Well, you know the idea with two and three hoops, And it was actually a longtime friend and reader Adam Horowitz who was the first to pitch two and three Hoops to us. When we were thinking about names, the thinking was, yes, right now you've got the two one three era with Paul and Kwhi, but the intuitdome is in the two one three you know, zip code area code. And so that was the thinking at the time, was that the name would age well beyond that current pairing
of stars. But the way that then U two one three really like entered the I feel like at that moment in time, I'm trying to think back to, you know, like December twenty nineteen when we were really working on getting ready to launch this. I feel like people weren't really saying two one three yet to talk about like Paul and Kui, the two one three era people, you know, it was so early into it.
Yeah, they had the one funnel up or doctor. I could just make sure to put the jerseys next to each other. But outside of.
That, yeah, I mean, I could be I could be totally wrong. I could be totally misremembering. Maybe people were saying that from day one, but I'm just thinking at the time, we weren't necessarily immediately drawn to it. The idea was that staying power with the location of the new arena would would But now it's become such a sinat like two one three has really become synonymous with Paul and Kui. So I don't know. I'm I'm open minded about it, I would say, but we haven't we were,
We're not actively in the process of rebranding. There's a lot of you know, we have like all everything is official, right, and so there's a lot of paperwork that we would have to do if we were to decide to go in a different direction.
You like the dude in Big Lebowski. You know various paperwork, business papers.
I got stacks here of all the two. And I did not imagine when I when I started putting up little blog posts about the Clippers in twenty eleven, I did not imagine that it would end with me doing learning how to do my own small business taxes. But here we are.
Well, you're in luck because I think turbo tax has something to do with into it, Dome, I think, yeah.
I mean it's a great opportunity for a little spot. I mean, call me, guys, call me.
He is Lucas hand, don't call him han. I always have to remind myself of that all the time, owner proprietor of two to one three hoops for now. Hey, the Clippers never changed their name. Why does two and three hoops have to? It just tells you they've been doing it from that point. There's a history there. They have a long established run of great Clippers coverage. Lucas, thank you so much for doing this. It was overdue, as I mentioned earlier, but I think we made up
for some lost time here on Clippers stuff. It was great to have you on. I love all your opinions and analysis. You know, I'm a huge fan, so Adam always a pleasure man.
Great. It's been great working with you, great talking with you today, and like I said, this has been a really great series. I hope that that Clippers fans and your listeners know, you know, the other other fan bases are not getting this type of all the voices brought together on on one channel over the summer type of work. And it is. Having been do this for every decade, I know that these summer series are grind and it's putting in the Adam is putting in the grind for you, guys.
I have not been putting in the grind this August, so appreciate Adam for what he's doing for you.
I'm just hanging out and having great guests on. Speaking of tomorrow, we have Jack Cogan coming on at Jack clips la is where you might know him from X He's coming on. He's an ESPN reporter and he's been a longtime Clippers fan, so we'll have him on and maybe a little air tomorrow night. Maybe it'll air on Tuesday Wednesday. I teased out last week and then didn't deliver under sell over deliver, I keep forgetting I didn't have that guest on Friday, that super secret special guest.
I'm just gonna jens it even further now and give out the guy's name because he's supposed to come on on Wednesday. If he doesn't, it's all good, because he's a very busy man. It'll happen at some point. But the reason I'm telling you now is if you have questions for Paul Sheer, comedian and super fan of the Clippers. Paul Sheer will be joining me on Wednesday. I have a ton of questions for him. But if you guys want to get some in, put it in the comments
section below, subscribe and save. I'm really excited for that. And then I have some further news. I'm going on assignment for an interview coming up in a couple of weeks here, but I'm going to tease that out a little bit further. Anyways, a lot happening here on Clippers Talk. For Lucas Hand, don't call on I'm out of miles line. This has been another edition of Clippers Talk. We'll talk to you tomorrow.