Hi everyone, I'm Rachel Zoe and you're listening to Climbing and Heels for your weekly dose of glamour, inspiration and fun. Today we have on the show a very dear friend of mine, the incredible makeup artist and founder of cl Cosmetics, Niki Derust. From watching her mom work in her at home salon to creating beauty looks for some Hollywood's most beautiful faces, Niki has truly forged her own path as
an artist. Niki is the master of enhancing natural beauty, so her evolution into creating cl Cosmetics, a color cosmetics brand with broad spectrum SPF, my favorite and clean and non for clogging ingredients, was honestly a no brainer for her. Niki is so beyond talented and very business savvy and beyond beautiful, I might add, and I cannot wait for you.
To hear her story. So let's jump right in. You are going to love her.
So, first of all, I'm so excited to have you on you know, Climbing in Hills. I've had so many people you know on the pod, and you know, for me, it's about not just celebrating my incredibly badass successful friends, but it's really talking about the journey of how we all get to where we are because it's not ever the same, it's not ever easy.
I love you, but b I've known.
You, you know, before you were famous.
You from one Caius was so little, Yes.
You, Caius was probably like in a high chair.
I was like, yeah, yeah, so that's crazy. And I remember you sitting in my old house with me in my bathroom, and I remember very clearly you came in one day because you're always so positive, and you came in like this light all the time, this like you know, gorgeous being, but always just very chill, very calm, very like never a frenetic energy, which is I think what made me gravitate towards working with you. Obviously you made me feel beautiful and all of that, but like for
me hair makeup and all that. That's the most intimate person in your life outside of your family, because they're in your face, they're in your space, they're literally in your bathroom, right Like, so whoever I have around me in that, you know, in that position is always very sacred and the energy is always really important in your energy as much as your talent for me was like this is my person. But we obviously became very close
and I think very trusting of each other. So give me, like the how NICKI became NICKI like, what for you as a little person?
Well, I think you know, dating back my mom. My mom was a hairdresser. So I grew up in the late eighties in a basement Okay, I'm making myself so younger early eighties and in the basement of my mom doing hair. So I've always been around beauty and always loved it.
And wow, So in your house, in your house.
Yeah, we had a salon in our house.
Wow. And where were you in Utah? In Utah, which I think is key.
Yeah, And so looking at it now, it's funny what we know now, Like maybe those chemicals from the perm for me, But I'm here to tell the tell so.
Maybe maybe not. We'll never know.
We'll never know, we'll never know, We'll never know. So I've always been around beauty. I've always loved it. I don't think it was ever a question for me, like what I was going to do with my life. And I came from a hairdressing background, so I was doing hair and makeup at the same time. I was like a counter girl at Nordstrum, you know, in the early two thousands and in Utah, and I remember looking through magazines, looking at covers of magazines and being like I can
do that. I want to do that, and then thinking like, well what do I have to do to do that? I have to live in La or New York. So I mean it's a long story, but essentially a lot of stocking and a lot of like you know, making myself available to people that could be mentors for me. So early on it was a man named Howard McLaren that now owns the hair care company Rnco.
He used to my absolute favorites.
I know, it's a great brand, and he used to be at Bumble and Bumble. So I went to a Bumble and Bumble class, got his mailing address like snail mail him a letter in the mail and said that I was going to be in LA which was a total lie.
And he so once he was like yeah, and I'm totally going to be there, and I'm so going to be in La.
Yeah, Okay.
Once I got the date, I was like, oh, I'm going to be in town that day. I'd love to tell me to you. So book the ticket went to La.
He is, that's so scary. Yeah, I'm scared. You probably didn't have a place to stay. Did you know anyone here?
I remember renting a car and it was the first time I ever drove a car on an LA Freeway and it was so scary.
But you were like Alicia Silverstone and clueless. Yes, but Nikki, does it make you feel better that I'm still like that on a freeway?
Yes?
It does. Actually, yeah, define but ignorance is bliss right, Like I had the goal and I was just like eyes on the prize. So he agreed to mentor me. And he was like, when can you be here? That was like in October, and I was like, oh, I can be there by January. So I closed up my whole life in Utah. I was still working hairdresser, moved to La got an apartment in Koreatown. This was before ubers, so.
We walked everywhere.
No, I literally didn't leave my apartment because also I had no money.
So I was going to ask you, how did you even pay for your life?
Well? I bought tuna from Trader Joe's and kale and air popcorn and still eating healthy by the way, and I had no Internet. I just used the Internet from the building and I just decided to come and try to say yes to everything. So, like early on, it was trying to meet like directors, producers, whatever, which there's a lot of funny stories wrapped up in that because little did I know, these directors thought we were like going on dates, and I thought it was a business meeting.
Wait.
Note to listeners, when you're trying to hustle for jobs, be very clear, it's not a date.
It's I want to do makeup or hair on set for you.
This was actually funny because the one of the guys invited me to Soho House, which I had no idea what that was. And my friend was like, oh, you're going to Soho House and I was like, yeah, I guess. And I got off the elevator and this was like in twenty eleven, and I went into the restaurant and George Clooney and Cindy Crawford were there, and I was like, oh, my gosh. And then Janis Dickinson was walking around with a martini and solet Moonfry was there and yeah, and
I've told her this story. I'm like, I was so starstruck because Punky Brewster is like whatever, of course, So anyways, you know, long story short, I just hustled. I was doing whatever job someone would say yes too. Back then, I was doing a lot of e commerce for Playboy, not as model, but.
Glad you clarified that. Not that I would have judged.
But like e commerce, you know, Capri Sun commercials, like anything I could get. And I actually remember, I don't even know how I got to you, but I remember when I had the opportunity to do your makeup. I was freaking out because I had also watched your show and I was I was like, I can't believe I'm going to do Rachel Zoe's makeup, Like this is insane. But what I want to share with everyone, because I was reflecting on this earlier today, is like I'll never
forget it. You came outside, you had aid inch heels on, and you insisted to help me carry my kit in, and it was like your cobblestone driveway and you. I had never had anyone ever come outside and want to help me, and I was like, wow, this is a really special person. I was like, she is so kind and you were always like that to me, and I
remember even telling you my dreams. Like I remember being like, oh, I want to meet Charlotte Tilbury or want to be like you're like, well I know her, like oh, let me set you up with her, blah blah blah. And so I think there, especially in our industry, there are connectors that kind of, you know, help you on your journey. And you were definitely one of those people for me.
And so it was just like you feel like you're like climbing this mountain, mountain yes, and just being open and saying yes and trying and failing and you know, it does all just happen. You just have to keep like that forward motion of like belief in yourself and then yeah, from there, like it kind of ug.
Remember our ug moment, Yeah, I remember that. That was the most fun shoot ever, by the way.
Yeah, fun and not open all as zoop. Yeah. Yeah.
But here's the thing.
I mean, the thing that I don't want to downplay is the fear that I think so many of the women I've had on that have come from you know, small towns in the middle of the country or like had a similar kind of moment where they could easily stay where they were have a career right, Like you could have stayed working in a hairson and doing your thing in Utah, and like, you know, I think we all know, you know, most of us would would know, you know, Jenatkin's story of coming out of Utah, right,
my friend Melinda Maria Jory coming out of Spokane, Washington and left there at sixteen, and she was like, no, I don't want to stay here, Like and I think that, you know, for me, having grown up in the sort of try state or like, you know, in the main centers of where these things happen, I really like to give so much credit to having that courage of It's not like you had wads of cash in your pocket, like, hey, I'm going to go to La like you know Demi
who is on your like played game shows, to like get a car or like fund her first store, you know. And I think I think it's so important to recognize what that takes. And now you going from you know, big celebrity makeup artists to like starting your own brand, and and I want to talk about that because that in itself is scary and brutal and terrifying, and you know, and entrepreneurial life, as anyone would say the highest, the highs or the highest, and the lows are the lowest,
and the fear really never stops right. So that also takes a lot, because you could have easily just said, okay.
I've, I've made it right.
Like i've i've, I'm working beyond my dreams of the kind of makeup artist or hairstyleist that I want to be, which now you choose only makeup right makeup first. This episode is brought to you by eBay. Whatever you love, find it on eBay. eBay Things People Love. If you know me, you know I have an absolute obsession with all things vintage, whether it's the perfect coat or timeless denim, I'm always looking for vintage treasures. Nothing makes me happier
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I mean, I'll always I'll always twirl your hair for sure.
But yeah, but and fun fact, I also like begged her to do my kid's hair when they were little, because no one cuts a guy's hair better than Nikki.
She won't talk about that, but that's also her like fun fact, hidden talent.
But but I want to talk about that because you have been climbing this mountain for a long time, right and now many would argue, like you're doing some of the biggest stars in the world, some of those talented actors out there.
You know, why do you want to have a product line?
Why did you start sal Because it's terrifying and it takes a lot.
Well, I think part of it ignorance is bliss, right, like you don't know until you know. But yeah, it's that also has always been a dream of mine without really realizing it actually to be. Just like when I was eighteen, I remember flipping through a beauty magazine, so it wasn't it was more of an industry magazine that I was flipping through, and I saw this page that
was like you can have your own makeup line. It was essentially a white label advertisement, like put your name on this packaging, and I was like, but it was more the aha moment of like, oh, wait, I can have a makeup line Like that idea had never you know, even been in my brain before. And so because you know, back then, you're just thinking, oh, you have to be an Esta Lauder or a ma you know, like how
would you ever be able to do that? And so I would always say like, oh, I'm going to have my own makeup line one day, not even knowing what I meant that I was saying. And then I think it was through kind of experience in the industry getting hired by a lot of bigger brands to go, you know, back to the latter lab to help them make lipsticks or doing all these things, and people that were in the industry like I remember chemist being like, oh, she has an eye for this or she's really good at it.
I had what I was doing. The first time I into a latter lab. I was like, they could tell you make it, baby, like let's go.
You know, I'm one hundred percent you did you have like the imposter syndrome?
Like I think I was so just like I have no idea what's going on. So I'm just going to roll with it. And then once I got the encouragement where they were like, oh, yeah, she's really good at color and she knows what she's doing, I was like, Okay, well, I guess I'm good at color. So a lot of it was learning on the job. But then also just kind of you know, I love business and I think about, you know, my path and how I can like really
give back, and it's through products that I create. And also you know, what they stand for, what they do for other people, because I think that even from a young age, you know, I grew up Mormon, always grew up going to church, and I remember in my teens, I would mentor all the younger girls in younger grade below me, and I would do these personal care classes, so I would teach them how to take care of their skin, you know, a little bit of makeup, you know,
how to care for their hair. So it's always been in me to kind of give that gift of likeating and teaching and making you know, ultimately people feel more confident, which comes through glam.
Right by the way, it really does.
And I think, you know, I would say that your signature because you know, I do think look as a stylist, as a hairstylest does a makeup artist, there is definitely like a signature, like I know when you're doing someone's makeup, you know I do, and you know, but I obviously am in the industry, but I think I think there's like you know, when Charlotte Tilbury does someone right, like you know it's going to be bronzy and smoky and glimmery and shimmery and all the things, right, yeah, But
I feel like with you, it's it's I always know the skin, yeah, right, I always know the skin, your skin first, right, You're always skinned for always an eyebrow game changer.
I love my Nikey eyebrow.
And and I think I think the reason that certain women choose to use you is because what you do
is you enhance their natural beauty. You you you take the natural beauty and you run with that, rather than saying I'm giving you a new face tonight, which by the way, there's no right or wrong, right, like some bo go out on a red carpet and they're like, pound my face until I have a cheekbone as high as Cindy Crawford's you know, right, So you know, so I want to talk about that because I also think you live what you preath, right, because that's the first thing when I see you.
It's your skin.
It's that we skin with a pinched cheek and like you know, and the lip and the lip is a deeper shade of like a like a stating kind of thing.
Yeah, talk to me about that.
I think that it's funny because you end up doing your signature without really really realizing it's your signatures, why it's your signature and help people will start to like be like, oh, oh oh, it's her skin. It's it's there's like and I remember, you know, because I just do what I do, and you know, the clients that have worked with me for the first time, Like I remember the first time I worked with Phoebe waller Bridge.
She took the compact and she's looking at herself and she's like, my skin has never looked like this, Like this is insane, and I'm just kind of bewildered being like, well, what do you mean.
I mean, that's just and Phoebe Denniver too, because because she's someone that likes no makeup, makeup, she wants very minimal makeup, and you know, she clearly loves what you're doing because you're just bringing She's such a natural beauty, and you know, I think you know, and I have a lot of respect for that because as someone that loves makeup, you know, I do you know, I think it's interesting because, like I guess, I know this sounds silly, but what do you do if someone's like, no, no,
like I want a lot of makeup tonight, will you do it?
Yeah, I'll do it. Like my version of it still right, still going to prep the skin with a lot of skincare, so even with a lot of makeup over the top, the radiance is coming through the skin, so it still has a little bit of that dimension to do it. Like I remember, I remember when I was at Venice Film Vistival with Sophia Richie and it was the first
time I had ever worked with her. This was a couple This was probably like six years ago, and she was like, oh, I really like a good bake, like the bake, and I was like, yeah, totally like love a bake. I had no idea what baking was. I was like, I went to the bathroom. I was like, oh, let me just use a restaurant before we start, and I go on my phone on YouTube and I was like, what is baking or how to bake? And I'm like watching a video in the bathroom, like okay, this is
how you bake. And then I go out and I'm just like doing the thing. So like I can adapt.
It's not just that mean like pounding. That means like that pound.
The face, like they put the layer of powder that kind of sits on the face while you're doing the rest of the makeup and then you brush it off at the end. Got it?
Got it?
God, that's so funny. I would never know that. Now I know what a bake is.
Yeah, So like I can adapt, But ultimately I'm lucky at this point that I do feel like most people are booking me because yeah, like it's like the difference of I haven't worked with Kim Kardashian, but when you see her full glam, but then you also see her with like the no makeup look. Both are singing, but I would do the one that's more of the no you know.
Of course. Yeah.
Yeah.
So now, so are there moments that you would want to share or be willing to share of like in your business life and starting your brand, like did you fall before.
You had success?
Because I know, you know what was so exciting for me, because you know, I'll always be your biggest cheerleader, you know, was I've now had a few makeup artists come to do my makeup and in their kids was cl and they love it, and they started, you know, and they had like Armani and Nars and all the things in their kid and they were putting sale on me. And I was like, oh my god, I need to take a video for Niki. Oh my god, Oh my god,
I'm so excited. I'm so excited, you know. And so for me seeing it in the wild with you not being attached to it, I like feel like a proud mom.
You know. I'm sort of like, oh my god.
Because obviously makeup artists choose from a hundred brands that they have, right so, and they're sent free things and or whatever. But to choose what they use is ultimately that's the win. The biggest compliment I could is yeah it is. And so I want to talk about that because the thing that they're seeing they love the most
is the foundation is the skin. So I think that's the dream and so you know, would you say, because look, I also want to say that you also have not that you haven't earned them, and not that they don't love you, and not that they don't choose you, but you also happen to have the most beautiful muses of all of you know, Body, Rosy, Phoebe Denniver. I mean, the list goes on. It's like these are natural beauties. But it's you know, I always laugh with my team. I'm like, of course Nicki's.
Doing her face.
It's like, yeah.
She's She's like she's like a stunning swan and now Nicky's.
Going to just do her likely totally.
Did you have fails before you had success?
Totally? I've totally had I mean, you know, I had a completely different brand before cl You know, that was a big that was a big gut punch.
But I've had many I got you know that.
That's what's so interesting is like you have really kept me on course through all of the years because like I could always come to you and be like, Okay, this is what's going on and You're like yep, yep, yep, done that.
Wait you got fucked by your partner?
What?
Like what somebody advantage of you because you're a woman wet, like someone thought you were dumb and you're not, like wait, what do you mean?
Yeah?
Like so that's always comforting to know like you're not on this island alone and it's it's a very common thing and and also fying nonetheless terrifying them. It's all vulnerable. It's all terrifying in the moment. Like I look back at that time when I, you know, lost the first company and I was like a frail human that was like you know, I, we're like a shell of yourself. Yeah, the life was gone out of me. And even back then I was like, oh, well, okay, I don't know
if I can do this again. But it was kind
of my community coming around me. And when I realized like, oh, all of these people are like gunning for me, and they believe in me and they want me to succeed and they see something in me that kind of I was like, oh, people care, like they want this, you know, And so I think it was that, but also not letting that moment define me, like I was like bigger than this and I still have more to give and you know, I know I can do this and so I would say from a business side, that was, you know,
a really big one. And I still think, you know, even now owning a new company, there's struggles every day, and I think that as an entrepreneur, that's the big learning is, like I expect a problem every day, So it's more about just like how you're managing problems and if things are good, I'm almost creeped out, like I'm kind of like, well.
Now, you know, it's hard. It's hard to not get like that, you know. I think it's finding that balance of waking up excited and motivated and also like having the fire extinguisher in your hand right at all times, ready to go.
Yeah, you know, nothing's like, nothing's linear. And that's what I tell my team a lot is I was like, I feel like with this business, like we're in a video game, Like we're kind of like Mario trying to get through dodging the fireballs, you know, like do it, you know, getting to the next level. And so some of it's a blast, some of it's hard, but you just kind of like keep going every single day and I'm sure there'll be more things that I'll be calling you about being like right.
Listen, you're you're in a very exciting time in your life. And I think, you know, I think I think having the nerve, the guts, the ambition to go through losing a brand or just having bad partners or but you know, I think the reality of it is, no one's immune to it. We've seen more of our friends than not go through it. And you know, sometimes the money runs out. Sometimes, you know, you get screwed over by your partner. Sometimes the person you trusted most becomes the person that is
leading the charge of screwing you over. And I think, I think if you take away those things, it's like you got.
I mean, listen, Bobby Brown got on stage.
Two summers ago at this Venture Summit, Female Venture Summit, and she said to.
Me, and everyone's like, oh my god, you're Bobby Brown.
I can't believe you've launched not just your own line, but now you're doing Jones Road.
To such a huge success. And she goes, are you okay?
She's like, I had like three failed before Jones Road. You just don't know about them because they failed, like you know, And she's like, but I learned from those.
To get to Jones Road, right, But you know, I think it's to me.
I think if there's any takeaway from having so many incredibly successful women on climbing and heels, the takeaway is that you don't stop. You don't stop right because you cry, we get scared, you feel alone, you feel I mean, the feelings are just next level, right, like of wanting to crawl up, wanting to but you can't, right, and you can't.
And so.
I think it's the takeaways from the failures that help you get to you know. And some people say, don't call them failures, you know, I do, just because to me it just feels like, okay, yeah, that was a'n of it fail And you could also say like, okay, that was an insane learning lesson.
And it's both, right.
That's okay. Yeah, I think it's definitely both. But the cool thing about it is that in doing it a second time, a lot of the things that were really hard the first time are now muscle memory for the second time. And I'm sor you know that being a mom, it's like like, oh, yeah, I've done this before, Like I can figure this out so much faster. So I
think that's amazing. And but it's always going there's always going to be things because even when you're doing product launches, you know, knock wood, but not everything's going to be like a slam dunk like you know, and there's always going to be something. And so I also think it's just it's data.
All of it is highs lows.
It's just like it's feeding you information so that you can navigate through the journey into what's next, you know, and.
By the way, what is next for you? Because I know it's next, but what's next? And what are your what.
Are your what are you most excited about?
And what are your greatest sort of fears or what you're most excited about?
Right now?
What's next is that I'm going to be a mother next year.
Yes, you are going.
My next product launch is a baby. No, I have actually have two product launches before the baby comes. But I'm having a baby boy in April, and so.
Nice little aries boy coming in hot like as mama and.
Like his mentors guy exactly exactly, So that will be interesting. But I'm ready. I'm ready, but I'm not. My mom is going crazy because she's like sending me car seats and cribs and all that, and I'm like, Mom, we're going to deal with that next year. She's like, what do you mean. I was like, I got like, we got stuff to do before I got to figure out what is going to be and and Amazon two day delivery, Like we'll be fine. So that's going to be a
cool level up for me. But it's kind of cool too because I think I have so many friends obviously. I mean you were also a huge mentor in that. I remember when I had I was in no relationship, no partner, and I was kind of in my cool girl phase of like, yeah, I don't know if I want to have kids, Like I just oh, I was just going to call you out on that, yeah, like whatever, like I'm so good and I'm just this entrepreneur girl.
And you were like, if you can freeze your eggs, like You're like, even if you don't know you want to have kids, just please do that. And I really took that to heart. I mean, luckily, this pregnancy is natural, but I'm the feeling of having those and knowing that I'm forty and if I want to keep growing the family that you know, I could.
Have the option. The option. Yeah, yeah, I wish someone take that to me. But if but if I did, I'd have like six kids right now, so exactly, so maybe that maybe maybe we're good. Maybe we're good.
I mean hurt wants or I don't know, if that's.
Listen girl, do it? Do it?
Well?
See, I let's have one and then and then decide.
I just told him that. I'm like, let's get through one and then we'll figure it out.
But yeah, your Jewish mom will nudge you into the second for sure, But I mean after that, that's all you because then I can't take responsible for.
The insanity that ensues. But I think even with that, so I have mentors. I saw Jasmine who's the owner of Colt Gaya.
The other Yeah, and we just had another one, right.
Yes, but we were at this baby event. We were at Sophia or Richie did this new clothing, right, Yeah, we were there and I was talking to her and it's like, you know, I'm five and a half months holding my little belly and she shows up and I'm like, oh, like, what are you doing? She's like next Thursday, and I was like what is going on?
I was like, what are you doing here?
Because she's like it's her third third and I was like, well, what are you doing here? She's like, what do you mean. I'm just like I'm hanging out. And I was like, that is a queen right there. I was like okay, and then yeah, and I was talking to her about it, and I was like, I'm really nervous, like how do you do it? Like She's like, Nikki, it's your It's going to be your superpower, you know, like because you just get in this rhythm and you have like your
mom's stuff going on, your business stuff going on. And she's like, think about it when you have a day off and you don't do anything, how tired you are because you're not doing anything. She's like, so the busyness, you'll get in a groove. And I was like, okay, that inspires me to not have a fear around how to manage all of it.
You're gonna do it with such grace and stride and it's you're just going to figure it out as you go because that's what we do. There's no rule, buck, don't read the books, just do it and follow your gut, and you're going to do everything the way you want on your terms. And you know, my greatest advice for new moms is just don't listen to anybody like listen. Like, if you ask for the advice right, people will give it.
But there are going to be more often than not people that give you advice that you don't ask for it. And you can't take that because all those things start to become this jigsaw puzzle in your head.
Wait do I sleepchain?
Wait?
Do I not do I bed sleep? Do I not do I best in it? Do I not do I feed them this? Do I give them nuts? Do I?
Like?
You know, and you're just.
Going to follow your gut with your child, and that's it.
That's the right answer.
And you know, when you need help, you have a group of a thousand amazing moms around you that can help. But until then, you follow you, you do you, and it will work best. And you know, I think the working thing, it's all hard, right, Like it's all hard. I actually think that the juggle of motherhood and working makes you better and more efficient with your life and
your time, you know, I really do. And it's not even on purpose, it's just what happens, you know, And I don't think you realize that there was a lot of time you were kind of wasting and now you don't waste any time.
There's everything else.
Yeah, and by the way, it's also okay to have a down day where you need to not be a mom and not work.
That's okay too.
Yeah. Yeah, you know, it's it's been really interesting because I've always grown up around kids and babies and I'm really such a kid person. Yeah, I'm super comfortable around it. But it just never it was it was just I was have always been so focused on business that it just was kind of like not I didn't even think about it. And even now being pregnant, I feel like I'm walking into this new club that I'm you are.
I'm like, oh, so okay, cool, Like now I'm one of them, you know, like this it's yeah, it's pretty wild, but you are.
But it's the best frickin' club you'll ever be a part of. I have to tell you, because I've been part of a lot of clubs in my career and in my life, and I have to say, the working mom club is a club that is so unique and special because you end up surrounding yourself with a bunch of badass, smart women that are all kind of on
your trajectory in their own way. No one says the same, but it's so nice to connect, but so nice to have that community and you're going to just enjoy the ride and keep doing you and keep being Nikki, and you know, maybe that Nikki looks a little different, you know, because for me, I think that was my biggest challenge was after I had Sky, was like, who the hell am I?
Yeah? How do I? How do I now?
Holding this little angel that I love more my heart was like explode and a way I didn't know it was possible, and I didn't really want to put him down. And so I think for me and everyone's different, it was sort of how do I go at being me now?
Yeah?
I mean that was a challenge. It took me a beat, honestly.
Yeah.
And that's why I'm saying give yourself the grace.
Yeah, you know, And I think that throughout my whole you know, career and personal life. I think one of my superpowers is an openness to things, and so like I'm comfortable kind of not knowing and kind of just working through it as we go. So I just kind of keep on that path of you know, even my team they're like, oh, well, when you're on Matt leave and I'm like, I don't know about I don't know
that sounds I don't know. I was like, I'll probably be on calls with him on my boob and that's fine, and that's fine, but we'll see, you know, Like I really know how I'm going to feel until I'm in it, and then I'll figure it out, you know. So I could be ignorantly talking about that, but that's kind of how I do.
A lot of life is just like, no wing it.
Let's see.
I believe in winging it, babe. I've even winging it, just do.
Everything's been a wing it.
By the way, one of the greatest lessons I like to share on climbing and hails is how many amazingly successful women just wing it.
You kind of have to. We can't control everything, and we like to, right. And it's weird because I'm a total control freak in so many ways. But I also really like to wing it because I think that when you plan too much, you set yourself up for disappointment and feeling like you didn't hit that goal, right, Like.
And what's the biggest you know? And I think I always think that way too, Like what is the worst case scenario of this, like winging it right like it's usually not. It's not right back. You know, it's definitely something that you can get through. I mean there's been some funny wing it. It's like, you know, I've had to marriages before this one, and those were funny ones. In my twenties totally winged it. The second one only lasting for three months, but it.
Was a blip. It was blips.
People are blips. But even with that, it was funny because I remember going to my parents to tell them, oh, I'm getting divorced again, and they were like, we're so proud of you. And I was like, that's not the response I expected from my Mormon parents.
I was going to say, from Mormon parents in Utah. I mean, you don't really expect that answer, right, So I could.
And they were like, you know, it's really scary to be brave and do something that you know, most people wouldn't do. Most people would just stay in it, and we are so proud of you for being so brave. And I was like, huh, okay, and you know, and but that kind of like was a huge lesson for me of like, you know, the hardest thing, how hard it is the fall, Like, yeah, that was tough, and I had to go through a lot of hardship even back then, and business and friendships and all of those
different things. But like, what's the worst case scenario? And by the way, people forget about it, like they could talk about it for you know, a couple of weeks and then it's on to the thing. Yeah, So I think that's always the Other thing to remember is like we always think everyone is.
Like, I know, well, because we're in it.
Yeah, like they're doing their own shit, you know, so you know, just keep winging it.
And everyone's got shit. Everyone's got shit. That's the reality. Everyone's got shit, and everyone has wins and everyone has fails, and but's how much they talk about them, how much they own them. And I've just always had the most respect for you for always keeping it real, always keeping it You've always remained very humble and open in about
how you go at anything. And to me, I tell everyone, I know, the thing I respect the most about people is owning something right, just owning it, just own who you are. And I think for you, you've always been very clear about you know where you are, right where you are, and I think I think with being honest with others, it helps to be honest with yourself about things.
And so I just love watching you win My team and I have known you from day one, or our day one, your la day one feels like probably there was day ones before that that we didn't know you but for us for a long time. And you know, I personally just love watching you whin and I you know, I'm so excited to see the next chapter.
I'm so excited to see you be.
Like hot mom, entrepreneur all the things, just you know, with your dewey skin and your lipstain and the cheek stain and the ebrow and the whole thing. Because I know you're going to do that even as a new mom. I'll have your five minutes you'll do get ready with me as a new mom.
No, seriously, because at the end of the day, like a little bit of makeup makes you feel so much better, Like you just feel like like catch yourself in the mirror. You see a little glow on your face and you're like, I'm good.
You know, I am so here for that.
You're talking to a girl that did a cat e in COVID locked in a room by myself with not another soul in there and had lashes and a cat.
I like, yes, you guys want to know the funniest thing about Rachel and I, so I my whole brand is has added levels of SPF. All of my products have SPF fifty. So like my this that we've been talking about, my tinted zerum, this is SPF fifty makeup, right, and I'm crazy about it. How's your sunscreen program, Rachel? How's it going over there?
Nicky comes with me with like she'll put her sunscreen and she'll go, I'm just gonna dabb a little, and I like like, wait one.
Or or I would come over to our house to do her glam and you're like in your robe, You're like, yeah, I've just been outside in the sun all day, like just getting a little bit of color. And I'm like, we can fake this with makeup. You don't need to be doing that, Rachel, Like, but somehow still has managed not to have sunspots, not to have wrinkle, Like, I don't know what's happening over there, but.
I feel like I have all the things. I feel like I have all that.
It's our biggest fight, you and I it is, it is, it is.
And I need more sale.
By the way, because I've been using it and I probably didn't even realize it.
I'd fifty in it. God, you shouldn't have told me. No. That's the way.
That was the inspiration behind the brand, is how I could trick Rachel into wearing not knowing it. By the way, I have bronzing concentrate that you can put everywhere to make you look so tan, but not make your skin get any any uva u v b rays.
Come on, well, you are the Queen. I love you so much.
And you know, if anyone is lucky enough to have Nikki touch their face and their lifetime, but she does teach a lot. And if you can't have Nikki in person, you can have her on her social because she's so active on her Instagram, which is at.
Nikki d Roost. And you can also find me on cl Cosmetics. And we're doing a lot more next year in Sephora as well, So our brand is retailed in Sephora nationwide. But I know in March we're doing a digital event, so if you want to learn firsthand for me, we'll be doing some classes that way too, So anyone can tune in and then hopefully in the fall we'll have more stuff happening on tour Baby in tow.
I love it so much. I'm so excited.
I love you so much. I'm going to let you go back to your life. And this was the most fun and I'm so excited. Thank you so much to my sweet, beautiful Niki for coming on the pod today. I love and adore her so very much. I also loved hearing that her creating amazing products is her way to give back to an industry that she loves so
much and owes so much too. And you know, as I spoke on the pod about, one of my favorite things about Niki is she is as real as they come, and she owns her triumphs, her falls, her.
Fears, her real sort of.
She has a real humility about her success and how she has become Niki. And you know, she's still exactly the same as the day I met her, and just truly the loveliest realist and just such a girls girl. I have to say also, first and foremost, so thank you so much for listening to Climbing and Heels. If you haven't already, please subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
the iHeart app, or wherever you get your podcasts. You don't miss a single episode this season, and be sure to follow me on Instagram at at rachel Zo and the show on at Climbing and Heals pod for the latest episodes and updates.
I will talk to you soon month