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Let's admit it when you finish a canned or bottled drink, do you toss it in the special recycle bin or just throw it into the regular trash. I try my best to recycle and at home my husband is a recycling nut, so I'm constantly under watch over what I throw away. But it's not always easy and I think you'll agree with me that forming any new habit is tough and especially when it comes to recycling, there can be a big gap between knowing and doing
the government has been trying to close this gap. The N. E. A. Has just proposed a scheme to get people to pay 10 to 20 cents more for prepackaged plastic or metal beverages. You can get this deposit back if you return to cans and bottles at designated points.
It's a start. But the question is whether this will change anything in our attitudes and behaviors when it comes to recycling to help us understand how we can rethink recycling is research fellow and head of the Urban Psychology lab of the lee kuan New Center for innovative cities at the Singapore University of Technology and Design. Mr Samuel Cheung SAm, welcome to the climate conversations. Great to see you.
It's great to see you too julie, thank you for having me On.
First off, many of us know about the benefits of recycling but much like exercising or eating healthily. We often recycle less than we should. What are some of the common barriers?
I think it's not an easy answer, straightforward answer to your question, it's quite complex, it's not just about the people, right? It's also about the environment. So if we look at the recent OcBc climate index clearly show that people have the awareness, they have the understanding of the issue, they know that things need to be done. However, we see that there is a lack of disconnect in terms of what they're actually doing in their daily lives.
So among people who think that they need to do more for the environment are probably also the people who are traveling more, flying accumulating this carbon footprint, so many of us would probably know that we need to do certain things, especially in terms of recycling, but why are we not doing it? One part of it is because it's inconvenient, another part of it could be just just put it in plain terms your lazy, if the recycling bin is further than the trash bin, maybe
we'll put it in the trash bin. And so what we have done or we have seen in Singapore, especially in the public neighborhoods, right? We've seen the new developments having a separate shoot for the recyclables as opposed to the trash. So it should theoretically make it easier for people to recycle. Right?
But with the introduction of that is recycling rate really going to increase as a psychologist over here and I would say probably not, even though there are more bins today, there's more awareness but recycling rate? It's not up.
Yeah, just to follow up on that, So is it safe to say that if it's not as easy as simply throwing off down the chute, people won't recycle things properly.
I think there needs to be a level of investment from the people. For example, Taiwan is one example that we always look at, they throw their trash in transparent trash bags, which means that you are able to see the content of the back and I recall when I was there, if you have recyclables and non recyclable bag, they wouldn't collect the trash and you got to keep the trash until the next election cycle, you have to re sort the trash because we didn't do it religiously over there.
So it's not a convenient move, but it's something that people put in effort over time, it then becomes a habit, it becomes subconscious, but in Singapore it might be slightly too easy. You just have this blue bin and everything goes inside the bin including trash.
Does that mean that our decisions and behaviors in relation to recycling or sustainability can be easily swayed if we know some of these mental or psychological levers and triggers.
Yes, and that's what a lot of our work is about. Looking at, identifying levers of change in which we can then do something small, seemingly small, but actually lead to a cascading effect and not only recycling, but into other areas of life to trigger climate action. So one way in which we are looking at it, it's actually getting people to think more about the future. So this is what we call
the future thinking. So if people are thinking only about the present or even thinking about, I just need to get rid of this cup fast, it doesn't matter how I get rid of it. As opposed to if someone is thinking about the future in my actions today will impact generations to come, it will impact the future or the security of the earth. If you're thinking in that terms, then probably holding the cup for another five minutes while you look for recycling
bin would be a lot more tolerable. As opposed to just throwing it into the nearest bin.
Speaking of triggering action. One way is using interventions to nudge residents or people to adopt positive waste recycling behaviors and the N. E. A recently announced a plan to have consumers pay 10 to 20 cents more for drinking containers and that they must return for a refund of that deposit. What's your assessment of this move? Would it help much to improve the recycling rate? I
Think the short reply would be in Singapore. We have a culture of being very compliant once it comes to having additional terrorists added to our daily behaviors or daily decisions. So probably in that expect it will work. It will trigger people to return the bottles. Let's say if it's 10 cents if you have 10 bottles is a dollar. If you have 20 bottles from like a week, that's $2 that's a nice sum of money to actually
motivate people to do the recycling. But I think the devil lies in the detail and the child this is executed. Where are you going to put all these up cycling machines? Are they going to be in the supermarkets? Are they going to be in every community center? Are they going to be in shopping malls or even MRT stations where people are constantly there? Or should you have one in every neighborhood where people can congregate?
But it's all this worth it. I'm not too sure because at least from my perspective it's a great way to start, but at the same time you don't want people to continue on this behavior just because of this tencent 20 cent charge that they can get back in terms of value, but you ultimately want is for this behavior to become part and parcel of their life to become the new social norm rather than just getting people to recycle for money.
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what currently recycling is done on a voluntary basis. Should we consider something a bit more hard hitting like stern enforcement, such as surveillance cameras near the bins or guards that oversee whether people are recycling properly or even in position of hefty fines because coming from south Korea, such measures were quite effective.
I think government agencies here also trying to find the right balance being perceived as too hard handed. Actually one of our challenges that we live in a very high density city, which means for example, and household recycling. How do we actually police it? Are we going to install sensors out of everyone's door because we share a common shoot? Right, so it's very difficult for us to then assess who is not recycling and to go after the person or
the household. So I think that there is some challenge to it. And so at least from a psychological perspective, I would rather change people's thinking to change their behavior and to make it sustainable rather than going after technological solutions or going after monetary penalties. These are means to an end, but it might not lead to a system wide or societal wide change. So let's see, what about the plastic bag charge for example, after a while, 10 cents isn't painful anymore. Are you
going to keep increasing it? 20 cents, 30 cents, 40 cents, which is what is happening in the UK, right? They've got to revise the price, but at one point in time people are going to be numb on the impact. So you got to do more or even more to sustain the level of change and what about that 10% or 15% of or just do not do it?
What can effectively motivate people more? Is it more incentives and rewards or penalties and punishment stick or carrot?
Maybe let's find it in between a carrot that is also stick. Maybe we could use peer pressure, social pressure. So what if, if I'm staying next to usually and I see you putting a can into the trash, but if I go after you and I say, hold on, you know, what are you doing? You probably should be
putting it in the blue bed, right? That, that probably works a lot better and that is kind of the policing or also the penalty, but you don't incur like financial penalty, but what you have is a whole network of citizens who are actively looking out for one another in a positive way. If we cultivate a society like this, I think there's much hope for us to look forward to,
but sam when it comes to effective recycling compounding. The issue are common misconceptions about what we can and cannot be recycled and I'm sure there are listeners out there who have done what's called wish cycling, It's when you aren't sure whether something should go into recycling bin, but you want to do the right thing, so you chuck it in the bin anyway and hope for the best. But they're doing more harm than good, aren't they?
Actually we didn't speak to one of the companies that is doing the waste management in Singapore and this is a challenge at the end and this is out of the view of people so they may not know it, but once the bins are emptied out into the recycling sorting facility, it poses a challenge. If we do not know whether or not this item should be recycled, I would urge people to do their research to look it up and take it as a challenge. Take it as a moment of education or self learning opportunity.
And I've heard an adult's of Children actually telling the parents you can't put that into the recycling bin because it's lined with plastic and the Children know it, Why do they know it? Because they're in schools because they're interested. They're curious, I think as adults then we tend to rely on heuristics. We tend to find the easiest way out and we get lazy.
So let's say, actions and behaviors have been resolved. How do we make sure we continue recycling and avoid backsliding, what does psychology tells us about making it a habit that sticks.
So that's an interesting question. And usually we get this sort of questions at the start of the year, where people set their new year resolution and the classic examples dieting and exercising in this way. It's the same thing just on the time frame that we're looking at is different. We're not looking at one year cycle where people relapse after the first quarter or maybe half the year, but really we are trying to ask people to be in this for the long run and I think they need
to see tangible benefits for themselves. Intangible benefits doesn't need to come in monetary sense where they get 10 cents for every bottle that they recycle, but at least to know that they are making an impact. We need to highlight this even though the impact might not be seen for decades to come. And that's because frankly one person in a small population like Singapore in the context of a large earth, a singular person wouldn't
make a difference. But what we need to do is at the very least play your role thinking about the future and collectively as a nation, we can then be in a better position and also through other means support other like minded nations. So we can only do what we can do but we shouldn't let the example of others be an excuse for us. Because if that comes to the end, then we might as well not do anything right, We just sit back and we just continue business as usual.
That's not what we want and sam based on your practices, What are one or two tips that people can use in their everyday lives to put recycling into practice.
There's two things. So the first thing is you need to constantly remember, it starts with me. And the second thing is when you're holding a plastic bottle in counseling, we used to teach our youth the traffic light, so great means to stop, right? You stop, pause, okay? And then the ember tells you you think and you consider your actions, so what are your alternatives? So think about it and I challenge
everyone to think about it in future terms. Don't think about your actions as in what does it bring for me today, five minutes later, but really to think about the big picture and finally after you have paused to think about it, then the green light comes and then you go ahead and hopefully with the green light you actually do the right. That's
a great challenge. And SAM we've talked about what we individuals can do, but before I let you go, how about authorities and educators, what can they do to cultivate a robust recycling culture? How can they ensure that message gets across and leads to behavioral change.
I think they have a very unenviable challenge, at least for those who make the policy or get our infrastructure in place. It's a massive challenge, especially when 50 stories of living together, we really need every individual to play their part well, all the infrastructure is beefed up but we need more than just blue bins for example, europe cycling machine that they will be putting in place,
but that only takes in plastic, right? And then maybe we have the ones for the aluminum tents, but there's so many more Prada that could be potentially recycled. So how do we then ensure that people have the avenue to do that? So I think that's the challenge for the authorities. And yet at the same time, we also see that they are supporting ground up initiatives. They're also supporting people who would like to enhance their neighborhoods to promote recycling.
So near my neighborhood, I see interest group worked with an mp to actually get people to recycle paper and it showed the mp pointing down here to recycle your paper in this particular bin. That's great, it's a very human touch to it and it's specific to that community, addresses the interests of the community. It brings
people together, a group of people. You talked about, the educators, I think they pay a very key role in nurturing our new generation of citizens because it really starts from young.
It's really hard to change someone who has been doing the same thing for 2030 40 years, but if we get them on the rightful thing to get them totally cute in to what they should be doing and not only their role, but their role as advocates, their role as climate ambassadors so slowly you can see this ripple effect and I think the teachers and the schools will also need that
support to help them in this journey. If not, we'll just become another subject, but to really introduce this with fun and in a manner where people take this in as a value to be built rather than a knowledge that will be tested in class.
So I really enjoy talking to really appreciate your insights. Thank you very much for talking to me.
Thank you for having me on
at the heart of the issue of recycling is the way we look at the things we consume and if they're made of materials which can be put back into the system, then it's our responsibility to do our best. I hope my chat with Samuel has given you a small nudge in the right direction to do your part. If we all did that, the world would certainly be a greener place now and in the years to come.
Thanks for listening to the climate conversations. The team behind this podcast is Jacqueline, chan, Joanne, chan Danieli and Christina robert and I'm julie you signing off