You're listening to AC N A podcast, Antonio Guterres, the world's top diplomat. If you follow the news closely, you'll have heard his words on the biggest issues and crises facing the planet and when it comes to climate change, he's the harbinger of all types of worldly doom. Hello and welcome to climate conversations. I'm Jack Board. Coming to you from Bangkok. Hi to Li Ling Tan CN A's very own harbinger of climate catastrophe. How are you?
Hello, Jack. I'm excellent. Thank you. Considering we're all going to bake boil and burn in a matter of time. I'm doing pretty well. Well, that's what you're here for, bringing us all types of bad news. But no, no, before we get to the interview that you did with Antonio Guterres kind of take us behind the scenes a bit. Great to have him exclusively on our podcast. How did
you find him? What was he like? Well, he might be the world's diplomat, but he's really a humanitarian at heart and sometimes he can be an angry humanitarian. He can be clear about what is needed and how the world may have fallen short of resolving conflicts or addressing climate change. For example, he can bristle over fossil fuels get angry at injustices, especially when it comes to vulnerable populations.
He can also express displeasure consternation even I've seen him do this over uh protracted conflicts and quarrels between nations like some of the superpowers. But behind the scenes, he is soft spoken and actually very thoughtful. I've interviewed him several times and he was always, always very aware of who the people around him were. He always remembers to shake, for example, with the TV crew. And that's what he
did this time as well. He takes notice and I think that is telling and, and it's what really defines his leadership style. What about you, Jack? What's your take on him? Uh Obviously, I've seen him from afar have examined his speeches on many occasions. The only time we were really in close quarters was at a restaurant actually in Egypt when co was in Sharm, El Sheikh and a friend and I, a fellow journalist and I were just having a sort
of a private dinner. And then in, he came this kind of outdoor restaurant by the sea with his whole entourage. And they all kind of just nervously looked around at us and we just kind of carried on our meal, but hardly a claim to fame when we have him on the podcast today. So that's exciting. It was quite an exciting exchange. So speaking of exciting exchanges, it's quiz time, of course,
it is Antonio Guterres themed naturally. Let's see how good your interview research was, which of the following quotes is not attributed to Antonio Guterres. We know that his speeches are pretty famous. They're pretty fiery. So tell me which one of these he did not say a humanity has opened the gates of hell. Sounds the fairy lord of the Rings. Ish B we are not only in danger, we are the danger c the climate crisis is the greatest challenge humanity has
ever faced. And d we are on the edge of the abyss and only urgent action can save us from a climate catastrophe. Oh, wow. All of these sounds really familiar. One of one of those made up. They all sound like him though. It's not as easy as it appears. All right answer will be at the end of the podcast. OK. News time, a link in between you're running around interviewing VIP s what's taken your attention? OK. So first up, China apparently has cut its air pollution by 41% over
the decade until 2022. Yay. And in so doing the average citizen there can live two years longer. So according to a Bloomberg article which cited a study by the University of Chicago, it's largely a result of the Chinese government's national Air Quality action plan. That's basically a policy that followed some really bad smock situation back
in 2013. I think you might remember this, Jack now the policy included steps to reduce the number of cars on the road, cut steel production, there, ban coal fired power plants in some key urban areas and also to invest in more renewables. But the article also points out that despite this progress, China's pollution levels are still 5 to 6 times higher than the World Health Organization's guidelines.
So there is still a long way to go. And the goal for China now is to cut smog in major cities by 10% from 2020 levels by the end of 2025. Pretty striking. I think the outcomes here of this report, but two years longer life expectancy for the
average person. And that really seems like something that's worth striving for and just strikes me that air pollution has such an impact on everybody's lives that, I mean, kudos for China for really making a big effort in this space, but shows how much work they really had to do. And it's clear there's a lot more to do as well. Yeah, absolutely. Now, speaking of pollution, generally, it's also having an impact on
a population that's closer to home. That's right. The orang laut people of the sea who called the Malacca Strait and waters of Eastern Sumatra home CNAs navel radar did a story about how their way of life has been at risk and he profiles the orang laut of Batam who are now seeing their lives and livelihoods on the line and it's not just due to pollution but also competition for fish and the effects of climate change, which is making the sea angrier, making the waves bigger and making
winds much stronger as well. And this hostile environment means they increasingly have to leave the ocean to find work on land and without formal education, many of them end up scavenging and picking trash just to get by. So instead of living on boats as their people have for centuries, most of them now live in still houses along the coast
and on small islands. So it's a glimpse of what climate change is doing to yet another vulnerable group of people, even if they had little or no part to play in the enormous amount of greenhouse
gas emissions that the world is coughing out. Yeah, I'd encourage you to, to have a read of it or watch it on youtube and part of this trend that we're seeing right throughout coastal areas of sea or formerly sea dwelling communities that now being forced to upend the way that they've traditionally lived. Ok. Let's go to our main story this week.
In 2017, the former Prime Minister of Portugal Antonio Guterres ascended to the un's top job since then, for all of us following the biggest stories on the news agenda. His words, emphasizing the gravity and urgency of issues have been a mainstay and climate change has been a key focus for him before coming to Asia. He made a stop in the Pacific region for the first time in about five years visiting Tonga and making some characteristically strong remarks about sea
level rise. In particular. I wrote an analysis piece that you can read at CN A about the significance of that trip and his call for an S OS or save our seas. And why sea level rise is a particular policy area of attention for both him and regional leaders. Now that coincided as well with a new report about the threat of melting ice, how it will impact low lying megacities and something that all of us should pay attention to. Then he was in Singapore, Li Ling. Why
was he here? What was on his agenda? I think it was part of his whole Asia visit. You mentioned he visited Tonga, he was also in Samoa um in the Pacific. And then he headed here in his first official visit as Un Secretary General to meet
with government officials here in Singapore. Now, as you said earlier, a big priority area was to draw global attention to the impact that climate change is having on communities here, not just rising sea levels on the Pacific, but the warming conditions in Asia as well. And this was largely the theme of our conversation in
this interview. Yeah, I think it's clear that Guterres is really on a supercharged tour right now and designed to wrap up energy, political dialogue, climate space and build momentum towards cop 29 in Azerbaijan later in November. And as well, the the G 20 summit is happening in the same month. That's right. And
that's when of course the world's largest economies meet. So we can expect a lot more calls to action to phase out fossil fuels, cough up climate financing that's been promised but largely unsured more commitments and follow throughs, especially when it comes to helping developing nations fight climate change and adapt to its impacts. I started off my conversation, my interview with the Secretary General by talking about how we're all feeling the heat
here in Asia. In Singapore alone, daily temperatures are projected to degrees by up to five °C by the end of the century. And Jack, you and I have talked about this before Asia is warming at a faster rate than the global average. So I asked him how worried he was about what all of this will do to countries in Southeast Asia.
Well, I'm terribly worried but we need to avoid that situation. We need to make sure that temperatures do not rise more than 1.5 degrees until the end of the century in relation to historic values. And that means that we need to reverse the present trends in which emissions are still growing. And we need to ask countries especially the G 20 countries, the great polluters, 80% of the greenhouse gasses come from the G 21 must take the G 20 countries developed countries, emerging economies that
it's time to start drastically reducing the emissions. It's time to start the process to face fossil fuels. And it's time to understand that we need to rescue our planet and that the only way to rescue our planet is exactly to avoid the things that you are describing. If temperatures rise 234 degrees, we will witness the destruction of large parts of human life conditions in different areas of the world.
You've already visited Saba and Tonga. What did you hear and see that you were most alarmed by, in terms of the impact from rising sea levels,
sea level rise is first of all at double than what it was in the nineties. And it's accelerating. I think the rate of increase is unprecedented in the last 3000 years and that I may use that we are coming close to a tipping point where it can accelerate much more. If for instance, we would have the two degrees limit, it would be inevitable to have the long term melting of Greenland and the long term melting
of West Antarctica. But an immediate acceleration of the melting of these two gigantic ice masses, which would mean a dramatic acceleration of the rise of the sea level. And the consequences for coastal areas would be devastating, devastating for the Pacific Islands where I was but devastating for many of the big cities in the world. The majority of the population of the world is by the sea cities like Shanghai, Lagos, Bangkok, New York, New York.
All these cities are threatened if we do not avoid those tipping points. And if you do not avoid a dramatic acceleration, sea level rise in the next few years and decades
in Tonga, you issued a global sos on the rising sea levels in the Pacific, who do you hope will answer your call or who should answer your? So
the big emitters, as I said, those that are dramatically impacting on climate, the fossil fuel companies, many of them, but above all the countries themselves that needs to have plans and projects to reduce emissions to put a price on carbon to, as I said, have plans to phase out fossil fuels to avoid deforestation, to guarantee an adequate use of land. There are so many things to decarbonise the industry, the transportation,
many other sectors. I mean, everything that needs to be done in order to make sure that we stop the present growth of emissions and we drastically reverse it,
right? But this message that it's time to phase out fossil fuels, it's time to take more climate action, it's not new. And you've used some pretty dramatic language to try and galvanize deeper climate action, right? You said that we need an exit ramp of the highway to climate. Hell, you said we've gone from global warming to global boiling. Have any of these warnings garnered the kind of real change that you want.
Well, we are seeing a lot of changes, we are seeing not enough change, but we are seeing a lot of changes. Look at the huge increase in renewable energy that we are witnessing the biggest increase ever in any form of energy, especially in the production of electricity. Look at electric cars, I mean in China now one in each two electric cars that are sold, one of each two cars that are sold is electric. Look how science is evolving so quickly. So the question is not the instrument
available. Science available. The question is political will, the only thing we need is the political will that is needed to use the instruments. We already have to make sure that we reverse the present trends to use those expressions that you mentioned that would lead to hell on earth.
Now, I want to ask you a question about the Association of Southeast Asian Nations. You have called on ASEAN to help end the global climate gridlock saying it's a moral, its moral authority to do. So, what did you mean by that? Especially given how this region faces its own climate, dangers and its own challenges in decarbonizing
is one of the areas that will be more dramatically impacted by climate change. And it's not an area that is contributing decisively to climate change. So as an area that is suffering more than many others, because of the impacts of climate change and we will suffer even more if things go on as they are. This region has a huge moral authority to tell the polluters stop.
OK. One last short question, what can a small country like Singapore do to be a bigger part of the solution? You met with some of the government officials during this trip? How can Singapore play a bigger part?
Now, Singapore plays an extremely important role in the United Nations. Singapore is one of the most active countries in the United Nations. Singapore was decisive in the reforms that we have been able to introduce. Singapore is decisive in our climate campaign. Singapore is decided in the preparation of the summit of the future in relation to the governance of Artificial Intelligence in relation to the reform of international financial
architecture in relation to a new agenda for peace. I mean, Singapore has been in the front line of the voice of reason
and um Singapore presides the forum of small states. And based on that, Singapore has been able to mobilize the majority of the countries, small states, but each country, one vote, the majority of the countries of the United Nations in order to make the United Nations a strong instrument to protect the planet and to create more equity and justice in the relations among countries and among people.
OK, quiz time questions and options again for you. Do you want all the options again? I think we should go through this, which of the following quotes is not attributed to Antonio Guterres. A humanity has opened the gates of hell. This one I know, I think he said it uh last September at the Climate Action Summit. I'm 65% sure of it. It sounds very familiar. That's not that sure. OK. All right. B we are not only in danger, we are the danger.
This, he definitely said, I remember reading this just last week. The whole quote is even more dramatic. Let me pull it up for you just a second. In the case of climate, we are not the dinosaurs, we are the meteor, we are not only in danger, we are the danger, but we are also the solution. OK? See the climate crisis is the greatest challenge humanity has ever faced. OK? It sounds like him and I would go for this if not for the next quote, which I'm kind
of sure. He also said. So d we are on the edge of the abyss and only urgent action can save us from a climate catastrophe. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I can hear him say the word abyss in my head. I'm pretty sure I said that but I mean, I'm pretty sure I heard that but ok, so definitely a definitely b because I'm sure about those two climate crisis is the greatest challenge humanity has ever faced. That's like a fact anybody could have said that. Ok, I'm gonna go with a B and D.
You got it correct. CC dragged directly from the UN website. Just not anybody. Yeah, it's just from the UN website. It's not from him. So you, you speak the language of uh Antonio Guterres or his speechwriters. But, yeah. All right. That's it for climate conversations. Thanks as always for joining us. We'll be back next week with fresh air and he means episode and until next week, I'm Li Ling Tan and I'm
Jack Boy. Thanks as always to the team that put together this episode, Tiffany Janni, Jahari, Kristina Robert and Sai.