This is a C N A podcast. When you think of food waste. What images come to mind, overflowing garbage bins filled with spoiled leftovers, rejected fruit and vegetable peels or landfill where mountains of rotting food waste emit methane gas. Here's a not so fun fact. Bread is one of the most wasted foods. No, thanks to its short shelf life. Globally. Almost 900,000 tons of bread is thrown away annually. That's around 24 million slices
every day. Throwing food away is a serious problem. It makes up about 12% of the total waste generated in Singapore. And among that, only 19% gets recycled. But one startup has a solution making beer from surplus bread. Today, you'll hear from the ceo of crust. Traven. Sing his startup crust looks at how you can make drinks from food waste. Welcome to the climate conversations. Traven. Good to see
you. Thanks for having me. Let's
start with the story of the birth of crust. How did this idea of, of slime surplus bread into beer? Come
about when I was a kid. So I come from a family where if we don't finish the entire meal my mom gonna incorporate today's meal into something new tomorrow. She did not do that because she was a sustainability of a kid or anything. She had no idea what sustainability even meant, but she did it because we did not come from much and she had to maximize her resources. So I would say the up cycling idea came from that.
Why be why the beverage industry and all it was more out of interest is I guess the playground that I thought I could really come and help with or bring something more fun. And that's what happened, I guess I love food and beverage in general. I like the concept of how something so simple can also be a lot more complex, right? And vice versa. And I also definitely was home brewing for a while before I started crust. So I already knew how to make
my own beers and everything. And I started doing my own R and D s and then I went on social media, built a company profile before I even had any company and started just posting about my home brew batches and started getting quite a bit of traction. And then that was when I just went to Akron company.
Then I see you did mention that your mom had a bit of an influence. But what got you started to care so much about food waste. What did you want to make a difference? Why
food or like why sustainability or maybe even why environmental concerns is, I don't think it would have been interesting enough for me to start a company that was not really bringing a solution to the market. I didn't just want to start like a restaurant, for example. Right. Or anything else that is very sme based, I want to really bring a real solution to the market. I think the food part came from birth and then when you dive a bit deeper, this was before even the product into the market.
When I was doing a lot more research about food waste and then when you become more informed, you realize how significant of a problem it is, right? And I guess make sure that you want to do more and that became sort of my
purpose. Yeah, bring that story to life through beer is really inspiring. But Travis walk us through the process, you know, from the collection to making the beer. So
of course, when we first started what we did was to connect small amounts from different bakeries. Then we realized it was intern not really economical, right? But then at the same time, not really environmental. So what we did was we started identifying much larger companies. So we'll give like Gardenia for example, right? And then we just have one collection point. We collect the surplus from there and
these are fresh bread, right. Correct.
So we only use unused and unsold sir. Blast. We do not use those consumption stuff. And we don't just do beer anymore. I'm not sure if a lot of people know that we're going to launch a second brand called Crop. Crop is our sparkling soda. So it's non alcohol. And for that one, we actually up cycle mostly fruits and vegetable. Whereas for crust, the beer side, we actually don't just give bread. We actually work with rice as well. We have even done a
pumpkin and key to a beer. We've done a coffee beer. We've done a pineapple beer. We've even done an apple peel beer and everything. Also a plus, it's pre consumption unused and unsold. So for the beer side of things, what we extract is the sugar content from bread and rice to replace our grains. So of course, when we do the collection of the bread, we just have to make sure that it is in
the right condition, right environment. And in the delivery process is also in the right manner, making sure that then the bread is also in the right size so that we can extract as much sugar content out of it. And then of course, we go to the brewery and then we make up beers there and then we package it after then we distributed. So
you are experimenting with different things now, but obviously, crust is no more for cycling bread. So to date how much bread has your company saved from being wasted and more importantly, how many happy beer bellies have you served
So far? We have actually saved, I think close to 2500 kg of bread in Singapore, Japan. I don't really have the number at the top of my mind right now. So in Japan, we are still doing a proof of concept there. I mean, we're probably going to do a proper launch once we get our license later this year.
So from beer to bread, I'm sure many of us just wondering what does it taste like? What's been the feedback from the drinkers and the industry? So
if you think that the beer's gonna taste different, like how alternative protein tastes very different from like actual meat, then you will be disappointed because it tastes more or less like whatever the market already has. So we make sure to always not have to educate our consumers when they try new product. So the idea from the R and D standpoint was to make a product that already
tastes like what the market already is used to. And generally, I mean, early on, we had some constructive feedback about the product at the moment right now, generally, we have got really good feedback on the product so
far. Okay. Does labor change with a different type?
It does slightly, but we have also done, I think probably close to 100 over variations of different combinations. So even mixed it with like whole meal, old grain, mixed with white. And then we realized that there's a certain way of formulating the recipe whereby you can have the exact same product but different formulation and it will still
taste more or less the same. But then of course, when you go a bit further and you try a rye bread, then rye bread goes really well with like a darker if you actually try a sour dough bread and it actually goes really well with, for example, an I P A. So those are just different ways of functioning. Interesting.
So travel, are you making
money? Um Yes, we are making, we're not profitable yet because unfortunately, we enter the market about three months before COVID. So I would even go as far as to say that the first three years of the company, I mean, the first three months was really good because because so much of feedback, so much of good traction and then COVID came and everything went downhill, right? And we were on
survival mode for as long as possible. The last six months of last year was really, really good for us, especially when COVID settling a little bit more and Singapore opened up a little bit more. We now tend to be first choice when it comes to most major events or conferences as a beverage partner because we then realized that a lot of them one sustainable supplier. And in the beverage industry, we are the only ones that does both alcohol and non alcohol sustainably.
So that's been really great for us. We have a B2B model called the Sustainable Unique label. So that's another model that we also brought into the company about a year ago. And it's our main differentiating factor. So yes, we make bread beer. Yes, we also sell the cross brand. Yes, we sell through various channels online and offline just like any other beverage come. But our main differentiating factor is the SQL model whereby we actually work with big hotels. Big supermarket is big
F and B groups, even aviation companies, airlines basically. And these are all companies who have their own surplus and right now they either throw it away or they donated. So what we do through our SQL model is coming as the R and D partner up cycled er surplus and create their house brand for them. So we have actually done a beer with like cold storage. We have done with food panda. We've done with Redmart
in Japan. We have done with like a man, Tokyo Ritz, Carlton Osaka and in Singapore right now, we're also talking to a few other hotels.
Hello, my name is Steve Lie and I'm Teresa Tang. And we are the hosts of Sienna correspondent, a podcast that takes you to the heart of the work our correspondents do across the globe from China's COVID response to the Childcare Center massacre in Thailand from the
fall of now
to the rise of Anwar Ibrahim as Malaysia's Prime Minister, we speak to the people at the reporting front lines. So if you want to know how the biggest global stories unfold, make sure you follow or subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah. My collaboration seems to be the key here. It sounds like a dragon. But I wonder, do you face a dilemma though? I mean, you're producing beer from bread waste, but you're also hoping to reduce or eliminate waste completely
in the future. So how can you sort of deconflict this? So
we don't just do bread when we speak about food waste in general, we make sure that it's really food waste. But we also know that there's some limitations or different types of food that can only use for beer and hence crop came into the picture because the same hotels, supermarket that I'm going to up cycle and create the house brand for them while up cycling their bread out price, I can now work with the fruits as well to create a non alcohol brand for them.
And we give other companies an avenue to reduce food waste or fight this fight with us through Crust Group. So that's one way another way of trying to make sure that we deconflict ourselves and also making sure that when profits come into the picture and we eventually turn profitable, I will not have a shareholders meeting or board meeting where profit is the only thing that is mentioned, why
forgetting environmental and social concerns. So being be cop so be corporation is a certification unknown worldwide where if you do get be Cops certified, it means you're environmentally and socially extremely responsible. But the good thing about being be cops certified is that you have to re certify yourself once every three years, which means essentially in a nutshell,
you cannot sway to the dark side. We took us 18 months to get B Corp certification, but we're very adamant that it was the right decision to do. And in the process, we tighten a lot of our loose ends also and make sure that everything that we do, we question and we make sure that we reduce our carbon footprint also.
That's very interesting because, you know, read some reports saying brewing is not exactly the most sustainable practice. It takes a lot of water energy from fermentation process and when the brewing is done, there's obviously undrinkable water and spent grains as so I wonder how you're approaching your sustainability practice as a company. So
everything you mentioned is absolutely correct. And that's exactly why we started cross group also, right. There's so many alternative companies right now, but mostly the meatspace, there's alternative chicken, beef, fish, seafood right now in the beverage space, that is really only an alternative for milk, not so much in the alcohol industry and also not so much in the soda industry.
And that's the playground that we basically coming in to help it started with up cycling, but cycling is not the only way that we can reduce our carbon footprint. What we have also done in Singapore is to use locally grown produce. So when I talk about locally grown produce, right? What I mean is we have done one beer in Singapore that is called Central and is in collaboration with Gardens by the Bay.
And for that beer, we actually replace a good amount of our hops with a botanical grown at gardens by and it's a botanical called Lemon Myrtle. Another botanical that we've also worked with is um Raja. So this is other avenues where we have constantly looked at every single ingredient that it takes to make our beverages. And we see what we can do that could help reduce our carbon. So it's not just R and D innovation is actually supply chain as well. Making sure that you understand your
supply chain is really key. And the more botanicals I can find in Singapore, maybe even in Japan, I don't have to then fly hops in huge amount in from overseas to Singapore. So that also helps to reduce our carbon from the water side of things. We contra manufacturer, we don't really own any of the assets that so many production facility worldwide that right now are not maximizing the capacity, I would say maybe at best,
they are maximizing 30-60 or 70% of their capacity. And that's why we did not even bother with our own production because that will also add to our carbon. But it makes us so asset heavy. So we engage existing production facilities worldwide and we help them maximize their capacity. Another alternative that you brought up earlier was spent green, very valid point. Right. Again, spent grain right now is mostly
used as animal feed. This is a bit more harsh, harsh, but that crust we actually did some internal R and D and we converted our spent grain into to a pancake mix. And right now, we are exploring a granola bar as well. So we most likely will not be stopping at just beverage.
Absoluteal. Not right. And your goal actually is to reduce 1% of global food waste by 2030. Are you on track to hit this target? It's just what, seven years away.
Um Yeah, we're not really on target right now but why we had that goal initially was so that everybody in the camp, I could focus a lot of our business model on collaboration because collectively, while working supermarkets, hotels, aviation companies, the big FMB groups, we will inch closer to the 1% goal.
Just how challenging is. It just can you just give us a sense of how hard it is? What sort of hurdles that you're facing and anticipating every
day is a challenge? I think as long as you constantly focus on innovation every day. It's really a challenge, right? Understanding your delivery points and
how many are there? Understanding the supply chain, understanding your raw materials, understanding, alternative, understanding different recipe and formulation and processes, understanding what the market already has and what elects right now, understanding what you have and what you like right now and then going on day to day and then fundraising on top of that, right? And trying to explain to
the investors with regards to up cycling. So every day is a challenge, I do not know where to start, but at least I know I was closer to my goal today than I was yesterday. That's
a long list right there at Traven. But I wonder what gives you hope? I mean, what sort of opportunities do you see for food entrepreneurship, to empower systems and communities towards a more sustainable future in the
last six months? You know, we have had a lot of inbound, a lot of companies are coming to us for what we have to offer so that in itself keeps just a week and night, right? And make sure that we wake up early in the morning to do what we do. And in Japan, for example, in Singapore, we
don't really work with farms and farmers. But in Japan, we have the opportunity to work with farms and farmers and seeing how they see hope for their end product that they have put in so much of time and resources to grow or make because we are coming to the picture. Right? Also gives us hope. Of course, a lot of it has got to do with internal motivation, but usually when you start your own company, that's all
a lot of internal motivation. But when we collaborate with other partners and we see that they're really happy with the product and it does really well or other farmers as well, who knows that they're ugly. Produce is not really going to go to waste. There will be a second life for it instead of the bin also gives us a lot more hope.
I mean, as a food waste warrior, what do you think is the answer to this global issue of food waste? Did you come across any initiatives or innovation that you thought? Wow, that's going to be a game changer. I think there's
no one solution to world problems, right? I think what the world really needs is everybody to just come together and do a part. I'm not in the clean energy sector. So I can't say for sure what's the best solution there? And I think we believe that the future of food should be more collaborative and less competitive. Then it's as
simple as that, right? We would actually find more business models that collaborate instead of compete because a lot of competing business models are at the detriment of environmental and social causes. So I think that is where our North Star is
Before I let you go. What sort of ambitions do you have for crust in the next 5 to 10 years? And how do you see your business growing? I think
in apec, we don't really have an up cycling movement. There's a lot of alternative protein but a lot of people, a lot of disease as well. A lot of individuals don't really understand up cycling in Asia Pacific. There's a larger trend in I would say in the U S or different parts of Europe in the U K. And we want to pioneer that sort of movement here in Asia Pacific and show that food waste. It's a viable problem. It's a huge problem and the solution that we're bringing into the market is also a
really viable solution. Why do you
think that is that there's a bit of a slow take up when it comes to up cycling? Lack of understanding education,
I guess various factor maybe from a Singapore context, for instance, right, again, we don't have farms and farmers here. So none of us who grew up, born and bred in Singapore have actually seen the amount of resources, the amount of manpower inefficiencies that actually goes into creating or growing something. So it becomes really second nature for us to just throw something away without even having to think
about it. So that's why when you up cycle, a lot of people don't really understand the concept of why the need when you asked that question earlier. So are you using unused unsold? And I said yes, a lot of companies and a lot of Singaporeans also don't really understand that a lot of our food risk comes operationally. It comes from supermarkets, it comes from hotels and they are trying their best to predict consumer demands,
but you're never on track all the time. So there will always be food waste operationally and that's where we come into the picture. But I think cross, even though the Singaporean company, I also do think that a lot of the greater work that we will do will come overseas in markets where there are farms and farmers also because those are really large markets where we can come in and help to reduce a significant amount of food
waste compared to Singapore. So different markets, our role is slightly different, but the endgame is the same.
All right. So when it comes to innovative ideas and of course, environmentally friendly. BR I think that's definitely something we can all drink to. Thank you very much traveling for joining me today, sharing your story. It's been very inspirational. Well, thanks to my guest, Traven Sing and thanks to all of you for tuning in. We hope you enjoyed
this episode. Do remember to subscribe and like this podcast. So, you know, when a new episode drops, you can find Ciena's climate and sustainability coverage online at Sienna dot Asia the team behind this podcast is Joanne Chan Cyan win, Jacqueline Chan and Christina Robert and I'm Julie, you signing off.