Oil and gas companies lie at the heart of the energy transition. To some, they are heroes, continuing to power human progress despite all the odds. To some, they are villains, responsible for the climate change that is devastating our planet. This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich interviews Ben van Beurden, former CEO of Shell from 2014 to 2023. The conversation explores the complexities of the energy transition, climate change, and the role of oil and gas companies in addressing global em...
Jun 25, 2025•1 hr 13 min•Ep. 214
What happens if the Amazon rainforest stops absorbing carbon and starts releasing it? Do we need geoengineering to help us cool an overheating planet? And how can developing countries balance environmental preservation with economic development? This week on Cleaning Up, Baroness Bryony Worthington sits down with Thelma Krug, a renowned Brazilian scientist and mathematician, and former vice chair of the IPCC, to explore these critical questions. Krug offers an insider's perspective, drawing from...
Jun 18, 2025•1 hr•Ep. 213
What will it take to finally wean Europe off Russian gas? Can renewables help with grid stability? And is the EU making a mistake subsidising hydrogen? This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with EU Energy and Housing Commissioner Dan Jørgensen to dissect the continent's energy transformation. In this wide ranging interview recorded at the Berlaymont building in Brussels — the home of the European Commission — Liebreich and Jørgensen delve into critical topics including reducing d...
Jun 11, 2025•38 min•Ep. 212
The world's electricity system is transforming: We're integrating more and more variable renewables. Fossil plants are running fewer hours. Demand is growing everywhere, including in the developed world, as we electrify transport and heating, and AI data centers elbow their way onto the grid. Some people find this very threatening but not Antonio Cammisecra, CEO of ContourGlobal. CounterGlobal is a leading independent power producer who is well on their way to transition away from coal to electr...
Jun 04, 2025•1 hr 7 min•Ep. 211
Billionaire iron magnate Andrew Forrest believes he's on the cusp of a breakthrough to decarbonise shipping and heavy industry using hydrogen. As the Executive Chairman of the Fortescue, one of the world's largest iron ore companies, Andrew Forrest is not an easy to pigeonhole industrial billionaire. He built Fortescue into a hugely successful company, partly thanks to his belief in taking unconventional paths. After a serious accident meant he had to take a break from work, he enrolled in a PhD...
May 28, 2025•42 min•Ep. 210
Have the bond markets become a new form of global governance? Are we witnessing the end of US economic exceptionalism? And how does game theory relate to cooperation on net-zero? This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington sits down with renowned economist Mohamed El-Erian to unpack the complex intersections of global finance, politics, and climate change. El-Erian offers insights into the current economic landscape, exploring how central banks, trade tensions, and technological innovations are...
May 21, 2025•44 min•Ep. 209
Can You Run A Grid Without Fossil Fuels? "Yes," says Anders Lindberg, President of Energy and Executive VP at Wärtsilä, on this week's episode of Cleaning Up. It'll just cost €65 trillion extra by 2050. Anders' team at Wärtsilä has recently published its Crossroads to Net Zero report, which argues that keeping a little bit of flexible generation on the grid will save huge amounts of money as the globe strives for net zero, while also speeding up the transition to renewables. The argument centres...
May 14, 2025•1 hr 3 min•Ep. 208
Geothermal seems to have found new favour under Donald Trump's presidency, but can it ever live up to its potential? Will the oil and gas industry reinvent itself before becoming obsolete? And how might geothermal energy change the global energy landscape? This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington talks to Jamie Beard, founder of Project InnerSpace, about why geothermal energy has never lived up to its hype, and whether it has the potential do so. Currently generating less than 1% of global e...
May 07, 2025•45 min•Ep. 207
When Russia unleashed its illegal and unprovoked invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, gas prices in Europe spiked by a factor of 10, driving a wave of bankruptcies and restructurings of European energy companies. Uniper was one of those. Uniper is one of Germany's largest energy companies. It is active across more than 40 countries and has 19.5 GW of power generation capacity to its name. It was one of the funders of the built-but-never-used Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline that connects Russia to Ge...
Apr 30, 2025•58 min•Ep. 206
In 100 short days, the world has transformed. Since the reelection of President Donald Trump, US federal climate policy has largely been abandoned, with the government seeking to reopen coal-fired power plants and lower environmental standards. An escalating trade war and global tariffs has sent the rest of the world reeling and threatened the global financial system with collapse. China has come under particular fire, but the US has also targeted its closest allies and neighbours — Canada, Mexi...
Apr 23, 2025•58 min•Ep. 205
In Sierra Leone, a 20-minute power cut can be the difference between life and death for newborn babies. In 2013, an extraordinary doctor called Dr Niall Conroy set up a neonatal intensive care unit at the Bo Government Hospital, in Sierra Leone's second largest city, and set about training the staff to give the best possible care to the desperately vulnerable babies who were admitted. But there was one problem he couldn't solve: electricity. Babies need warmth, and that means electrically powere...
Apr 09, 2025•38 min•Ep. 204
Google has one of the most ambitious climate targets in the tech world, but what happens if it falls short of its goals? How does the company balance innovation with environmental responsibility? And can AI really help reduce emissions? This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington sits down with Kate Brandt, Google's Chief Sustainability Officer, to unpack these critical questions. Brandt offers an insider's view of how one of the world's most influential companies is tackling the climate crisis...
Apr 02, 2025•54 min•Ep. 203
The UK is an extraordinary case study in how to cut greenhouse gas pollution successfully. Since 1990, the country has more than halved its greenhouse gas emissions, while the economy has grown by over 80%. The Climate Change Act, passed in 2008, has helped steer the UK towards its net-zero goals, setting five yearly carbon budgets that are specifically designed to be ambitious but flexible, with lots of options available to the government to meet the targets. Joining this week’s episode of Clea...
Mar 26, 2025•1 hr 9 min•Ep. 202
How does Europe get cheap energy again? Are climate goals at odds with the need to remain economically competitive? Are we about to see an empowered and emboldened Europe, ready to take on China and the US? Barely five years into the 2020s, this decade is already shaping up to be one of the most turbulent since the Second World War. As we record this episode, the US has just slapped 25% tariffs on steel and aluminum, prompting swift retaliation from Europe and Canada. The energy landscape is jus...
Mar 19, 2025•1 hr 7 min•Ep. 201
As the U.S. swings a budgetary axe at the federal government, one of the biggest casualties is climate science. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) faces a brutal 20% workforce reduction—jeopardizing critical research just when we need it most. So, what’s really at stake? And is Donald Trump Making America Dumb Again? This week on Cleaning Up, host Bryony Worthington takes us deep inside the Scripps Institution of Oceanography, where scientists are on the front lines of tr...
Mar 12, 2025•1 hr 5 min•Ep. 200
In February, Germany elected a new government. Friedrich Merz emerged as the new leader, but what are his energy and climate policies, and will Germany remain a climate leader in Europe and beyond? Joining Cleaning Up this week is Patrick Graichen, a former Energy and Climate minister in the last government, representing the Green Party. Prior to entering government, Patrick ran the think tank Agora Energiewende, working on energy from 2001 to 2012. With his deep expertise Patrick offers unique ...
Mar 05, 2025•1 hr 5 min•Ep. 199
How can the U.S. government bridge the gap between clean energy innovation and large-scale deployment? Will the Trump administration accelerate progress or put up roadblocks for clean tech? And how can the U.S. stay competitive with China, which already holds a commanding lead in the sector? Jigar Shah joins Cleaning Up fresh from his four-year tenure as Director of the U.S. Department of Energy's Loan Programs Office (LPO). Appointed in 2021, Shah transformed the once-obscure office into a clea...
Feb 26, 2025•1 hr 8 min•Ep. 198
How can climate activists be more successful in 2025? And where have they gone wrong? Kumi Naidoo has a storied career as an activist. At just 15 years old, he started out as an anti-apartheid campaigner and organiser in South Africa, before fleeing the country and attending Oxford University as a Rhodes Scholar, where he received a PhD for his research into the resistance movement in South Africa. After Nelson Mandela was freed, he returned home to help organise Mandela’s campaign to become Pre...
Feb 19, 2025•59 min•Ep. 197
The global south needs to build out vast amounts of clean energy, and requires hundreds of billions of dollars annually to do. And yet, only a fraction of the investment going into clean energy and the net-zero transition is flowing into those growth markets. So why are so few investing? Lucy Heintz is partner and head of energy infrastructure at Actis, whose most recent Energy Fund represents over $6 billion of investable capital. She is a driving force behind the small slice of investment whic...
Feb 12, 2025•58 min•Ep. 196
Just a few short years ago, sustainable finance and sustainable investing were all the rage. The Glasgow Financial Alliance For Net Zero (GFANZ) boasted financial players controlling $140 trillion. Things have not been quite as smooth since: There's been extensive pushback, starting from the red states in the US, but spreading from there against ESG. And of course, sustainable finance and sustainable investing are firmly in the crosshairs of the new Trump administration. David Blood is the co-fo...
Feb 05, 2025•1 hr 3 min•Ep. 195
Aviation accounts for around 2-3% of global emissions, and is showing no sign of decreasing. There has been a lot of focus on replacement fuels, but no real paradigm shift in the industry. Anders Forslund has a plan to change that. Anders is the CEO of Heart Aerospace, the Swedish airplane developers who've recently established an R&D facility in California to develop their 30 seater hybrid-electric plane. Later this year, their all-electric prototype will take to the skies in its first test...
Jan 29, 2025•56 min•Ep. 194
Will AI be a disaster for the climate, or a saviour in disguise? How is AI reshaping power needs around the world? And does a lack of clean electricity spell the end of the AI dream, or a new round of fossil-fuel reliant data centres? All this, and more in the audio adaptation of Michel's article for BloombergNEF: Generative AI: The Power and the Glory. Read the full piece at: https://about.bnef.com/blog/liebreich-generative-ai-the-power-and-the-glory/ Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is supported...
Jan 22, 2025•56 min•Ep. 193
How can $10 billion be spent most effectively to address the climate and nature crises? What role can philanthropy play in driving systemic change? And how can new technologies like AI be leveraged to accelerate climate solutions? This week on Cleaning Up, host Bryony Worthington sits down with Dr. Andrew Steer, President and CEO of the Bezos Earth Fund, to explore these critical questions. Established in 2020 with a $10 billion commitment from Jeff Bezos, the Bezos Earth Fund is on a mission to...
Jan 15, 2025•1 hr 11 min•Ep. 192
Happy New Year and welcome to Season 14 of Cleaning Up. From the future of nuclear to growing tensions between China and the USA, we're off with a bang with a conversation between hosts Michael Liebreich and Bryony Worthington. They reflect on the key trends of 2024, and looking ahead to what might be on the cards in 2025, from China's rapid electrification to political upheaval in the US. Bryony and Michael get stuck into the challenges and opportunities around the build out of nuclear power, t...
Jan 08, 2025•1 hr 1 min•Ep. 191
Happy New Year from all of us here at Cleaning Up. This week we’re bringing you one from our archive of almost 200 episodes. It’s a conversation Bryony Worthington had with Naomi Oreskes in October 2023, her very first episode as a co-host for Cleaning Up. Naomi Oreskes is the Henry Charles Lea Professor of the History of Science and Affiliated Professor of Earth and Planetary Sciences at Harvard University. A world-renowned earth scientist, historian and public speaker, she is the author of the...
Jan 01, 2025•59 min
Hello, I’m Michael Liebreich, and this is Cleaning Up. I hope you are having a good break over the holiday season, and getting to spend some quality time with your family. I’m in Switzerland, where it has just snowed about a meter in 24 hours. In case you’re missing your regular dose of climate content, we’re starting something new, which we’re calling Cleaning Up Redux. During the break between seasons, we’ll be republishing some gems from our back catalogue, which now covers nearly 200 episode...
Dec 25, 2024•1 hr 5 min
Are we losing the argument that climate change requires action and investment? Can we balance the need for affordable energy with the costs of decarbonizing hard-to-abate sectors like steel, cement and aviation? And how can we counter the spread of misinformation and populist narratives that undermine support for clean energy? This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich welcomes back Lord Adair Turner for a deep dive into the state of the energy transition at the end of 2024. They discuss the re...
Dec 18, 2024•1 hr 25 min•Ep. 190
Climate philanthropies are playing an increasingly important role in funding climate action. In 2023, an estimated $9-16 billion was spent by philanthropies on programs to mitigate climate change. But how do they choose how to spend it? And what role should philanthropy play in catalysing innovation? Bryony Worthington sits down with Greg de Temmerman, Deputy CEO of the Quadrature Climate Foundation, to explore these critical questions. As a former plasma physicist who worked on the world's larg...
Dec 11, 2024•57 min•Ep. 189
What was achieved at COP29 in Baku, Azerbaijan? Where will the promised $300 billion come from, and how will it be spent? And what reforms are needed to make the COP process more effective and impactful? This week, host Michael Liebreich sits down with James Cameron, an international climate lawyer who has been involved with the COP process since before COPs were COPs. James shares his insights into the challenges and dynamics of these high-stakes global talks, from the crucial role of small isl...
Dec 04, 2024•1 hr 7 min•Ep. 188
As we race towards a future powered by AI and data centres, how will the insatiable demand for energy impact the environment? With the richest companies ploughing billions into energy generation, might there be some unexpected upsides for the climate transition? And can exponential technologies address the climate crisis on a finite planet? This week on Cleaning Up, host Michael Liebreich sits down with Azeem Azhar, founder of Exponential View, to explore the complex relationship between exponen...
Nov 27, 2024•1 hr 13 min•Ep. 187
