Hey there. Welcome to classroom 5.0, a podcast helping you to design a future of learning, work and leadership that's both personally meaningful and creates impact for a better world. I'm your host, Marianne Power, and I'm thrilled you're joining me for another
episode of our inclusive Impact series. You can expect topics and interviews that deep dive into what it takes to build a truly diverse and equitable world and learn science backed skills and soul filled strategies, helping our different kind of difference makers to thrive. Before we get started, I'd like to acknowledge the traditional owners of our homeland via Pai country, where this podcast was recorded, and pay our respect to elders past, present and emerging. It's a pleasure
and a privilege to play, live and work our own country. And I'm so glad you're here. So let's dive on in to today's episode. Seth, I've had the privilege of sitting with you a couple of times now in conversation, actually. And each time I have, I've just been struck by your joy and your optimism and importantly, your human centered leadership. So it is just an absolute privilege to have you here. Welcome to classroom 5.0. Thank you, Marion. That's very kind of you, and I'm definitely looking
forward to our conversation today. Well, me too. I know we're going to cover a lot. I think our biggest challenge is going to be staying to time, at least for me, because I've got so many questions I want to ask you, especially about
the work and the impact you're doing at AGL and in your leadership. Before we get there, I've already introduced you professionally to our listeners, but I'm wondering if we could, let's say, peel back the curtain a little bit on your childhood, because I know from our conversations that you grew up in Kera, and that's a matriarchal society, I believe. So I'm really curious to hear what young Seth learned and how that shaped who you are today through your culture,
your family, your values. Could you share a little bit about that? Excellent. Thank you for the question. Look, I was born and brought up in a middle class indian family. My childhood memories were about being super naughty and destructive at times. I hated the education system, but as a kid, I was very curious. I enjoyed my support, and more
broadly, I enjoyed life in general. Our family, which is my surname, that's Patil, is one of the matriarchal families that has survived for centuries in the southwest indian state of Kerala, which is also known as God's own country. And it's popular for its picturesque backwaters, coconut lagoons, paddy fields, rubber and spices.
Now, having grown up watching my courageous mom and lead the family, and my dad, who was the main breadwinner, being exemplary, not only being a role model for my sister and myself, but we stood as a family with some unique approaches, especially my dad, who was very much into helping and supporting all the minority groups, female members of our family, as well as our friends, disabled members of our family and society, tribal
societies, et cetera. So this enabled a sense of purpose within me that has today been my north star as well. My parents were a great source of inspiration for me, living our core values of integrity, respect, and to be of service to everyone around. So that's what we grew up as kids. And India, known for its incredibly rich culture, history, tradition, taught me the importance of being tolerant, the importance of being empathetic, being humble, at the same time humanistic.
So these are some of the traits that we learned when we were very young. And mom and dad were very, very strict in enforcing that as well. Through my professional journey, though, I was fortunate to experience different industries. I think five, five different industries, including the world's largest oil refinery. I was also fortunate to experience that in five different continents, countries over three decades. So it gives you a bit of a varied experience.
And that experience has enabled me to be very skillfully adept at creating an environment where people feel very safe, people feel seen, people feel heard, people feel valued and aspired to grow and transform the world around them for the better. Look, broadly speaking, I'm a very pragmatically optimistic individual and I believe in a very bright future for everyone. And I genuinely believe that it's humankind's ability to build it together, which is the main thing. I dream of a world.
I dream of the world to be a global village without any boundaries, where every human embraces their learnings from the east, from the west, from the various indigenous cultures, where diversity, equity and inclusivity is part of our DNA. Right? For a very prosperous future for upcoming generations. That's my dream. But, yeah, we are far from that. I love that. I love that you and I share that dream. And what I love about you, a person, if I. If I could
share, is that that dream is just so closely held. The minute that I. That I connected with you, it didn't feel like a lofty dream. It felt like it could be a reality. And I really appreciate that about you and hearing a little bit more about your background. Actually, I'm joining some
dots as to how that makes sense. I'm going to take you off script if I could, because I didn't know that, that you found your educational journey quite challenging, I think I heard you say, and yet I am not surprised by that curiosity that sprung up as a young person. Reflecting on that childhood experience, it seems to me that there was a really heavy influence from your family, from your culture, more broadly speaking, and then in
your immediate family as well. How do you reflect now that your parents, perhaps, and culture and community helped you navigate that difficulty with your formal education to shape you, to maintain that love of learning and curiosity into the future? It's a big question. I appreciate. Yeah. So for me, it was, you know, I was the eldest in our family, and I have about six or seven cousins who grew almost at the same time. And being the eldest in the family meant that I wasn't given any privilege.
My sister, on the contrary, who was next to me, was given a lot of support, making sure that protected and is coached to be independent once she grew up. So as siblings, obviously there was a bit of rivalry from that. So I was always very curious to actually learn and do better than her. It sounds like that sibling rivalry actually play to your advantage. I love that. I'll remind my children of the same.
And for some reason, the education system, I generally believe, doesn't cater to the needs of setting up someone for the future. It's very scripted and it's very one size fits all sort of an approach. And to me, I think if you look at the. Some of the challenges that we have had to deal with in the last five to ten years or even earlier, my education system definitely didn't teach me or prepare me for that.
It was more through, you know, experiences, travel, that and a lot of investments that I made in myself that shaped the person I am. They say that you need a village to actually, you know, develop you or develop any child, and that is so true. I mean, parents of obviously influence the role modeling aspect. They bring in the right values, they imbibe a bit of a purpose in you, but it is the overall experience that you experience actually makes you the person you are, isn't it?
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, gosh, there's so much in that. Thank you for sharing. And speaking of experiences and travel, I'm curious to share with our listeners because I know a little bit about your migration story, but what prompted you to leave India, and what was that experience like and how did you end up in Agl? I was heading the central Engineering service team at Reliance Petroleum, which is the largest and the most complex oil refinery in the world today. And my wife was practicing
dentistry at the time. In other words, both of us were very comfortable where we were doing the. You know, in the. In the. In the line of profession that we were trained to. Our daughter, she. I think she was three years at the time. And
the. The. We wanted to make sure that she's able to chase her dreams in whatever she sets her eyes on and not to be the stereotype, because in India at the time, it was generally, the society would accept you generally, as a professional or respect you more as a professional, as in, you got to be a dentist or you've got to be an engineer, you've got to be a doctor or a chartered accountant or a lawyer or whatever. We didn't
want her to go through that. We wanted to make sure that whatever she wanted is up to her. And we thought the best way to achieve that would be to migrate to places like Canada or New Zealand or Australia, which were the only three options at that time. Canada and New Zealand fell off due to one reason or the other. And Australia worked well for us in terms of getting our pr. And we landed in Sydney as permanent residents with a few bags.
And one of our distant relatives, whom we had never met before, was magnanimous enough to host us and help us during the initial days in particular. And we are extremely grateful to them, even today. Amazing.
I don't want to gloss over that image of you. I remember when you first shared this, yourself and Priya, your wife and your young daughter at the time, this young couple migrating, huge adventure to Australia with little but a few things in your back and just the determination, the resilience, and again, that optimism.
And I think self belief just really struck me about your story. One thing I probably missed saying was that because we were so comfortable in India, when I said that we're planning to migrate to Australia with a young daughter, they said, are you sure you haven't got a job there? You don't have anyone there. You're landing in a new. This is 20 years ago, of course. Yeah. You know, is that the right thing
to do? And I had my self doubts, I have to say, but at that time, I saw this, this, this thing on the net, which actually saw a frog actually climbing a hill, and the only frog that actually reached the top was a deaf frog. All the others were at the bottom because they were all listening to the people around them and they never believed themselves. So that struck me so much, actually, at that time. I remember that actually. So the message was just listen to
everyone. And it was just serendipitously at that time that you saw that image as, wow. Yeah. Because it takes a lot to follow your own internal guidance, especially when the people that mean so much. And at that time I spoke to my wife and said that, hey, let's treat this as a one year holiday. Let's give it a go, let's be flexible. Whatever works is for the good. You had a fallback plan.
What that meant was in a month or so, I was fortunate to find a proper job at Bayswater power station, which was owned by Macquarie Generation, a state owned corporation at the time in the engineering line, and gradually moved into maintenance, moored into operational roles. And when AGL, which was
the. Which is the second longest serving business in the ASX, took over Macquarie generation at the time, I was moved to Liddell, Liddell power station, which is a twin power station, which has been pivotal for powering the New South Wales economy, especially during the earlier days. I was also fortunate to be leading that station over the last six to seven years prior to its retirement last year by focusing on safety or safe operations, I should say, and transition of its people.
Respectfully, only 1% of coal fired power stations operate beyond 50 years globally. So we were certainly in that one person, which means that it was quite challenging. But as a collective, as a team, we delivered exceptionally good results, which I'm really, really proud of. And for those who don't know where Liddell is, so we're talking regional Australia, New South Wales. Can I quickly ask you to show you what it was like to turn up to
that train station in the middle of regional Australia? As an indian man who just moved to Australia, what's that like? Although I have actually been in remote places, having traveled quite a bit before coming to Australia, I found the experience to be very different. I lined it up for the interview first at Musselbrook, because when I first landed, this was the first month of our being here in Australia, so I didn't have my license approved by the
australian authorities, RTA then. So I took the train, landed in Musselbrooke, took a cab to the station, attended the interview, and I was on my way back to Sydney at the time and I thought, I don't think I would want to actually come back because it was very deserted. It was very. I hardly. Hardly saw people because in Massbrook, I think the population was very small.
So I'm used to seeing people around and fortunately I got the job and the experience was quite unique in the sense I decided that Mussel Brook will not be the place where we live. So we decided Singleton, which is slightly bigger town close by. And that's how the whole journey started. Never looked back. And the other thing I probably forgot mentioning is that although a start to the regional New South Wales was not great, it turned
out to be the best decision we have made. As in, we thought, this is the best place to bring up our daughter and I'm here 20 years later and. It is a beautiful part of the world. We're very lucky. We're very lucky. When we came from Sydney, I remember people saying, ah, Newcastle is a ghost town, especially since closure of the steelworks. So you might want to come back to Sydney or Melbourne or other places, but never did that. Never had to.
You're still there. Well, we can share that. When we moved to Port Macquarie, my husband grew up here, but I was originally Sydney and we moved up and all of my friends said, are you wild? That's a retirement village. Well, I can tell you right now it ain't no retirement village. And even if it was, I'd be okay with that, because I'm okay with an early retirement. Yeah. Yeah. I think people underestimate what we bring in our regional areas and communities 100%.
And now that you're at AGL and you have been for some time, 20 years, am I correct in thinking? Yeah, that's. That's a long time to see a lot of change, I would imagine. And to be really pivotal in creating that change. I know as well in your role, I'm really fascinated about what
motivates people in the work that they do and what excites them. And I'm curious, Seth, could you share with us three things, maybe three things less or more, if you like, about what excites you and makes your work feel really meaningful at the moment. Very good. For me, definitely top of the list has to be clean energy transition. That's something that
I'm super passionate about. In my view, the clean energy transition is humanity's greatest economic challenge of our generation, at least we at AGL definitely are focused on that and also more broadly within the hunter as well as, obviously within the state and the country and globally as well. I'm equally excited in terms of the people and the culture aspects of. In other words, for me, I love working with people, I love talking to people, I love people in every aspect, because without people,
nothing happens. And the cultural aspect to me is the biggest challenge. Having worked in different environments, in different industries in different countries. That's something that I believe could be the competitive advantage for any business, to be honest with you. Right. Culture for framing the right culture, which is something that is unique to the place,
is the legacy that we leave. Right. And to me, you know, when I talk about culture, it is the experiences, basically, the experiences that provide the employees, the experiences that you provide your customers, the experiences provide the visitors. All these things matter. Making sure that we follow the diversity and inclusion principles. I'm a strong believer that there's a lot of talk about strategy, but I'm a strong believer that most
businesses know each other's strategy. But the one that separates one, the good ones, from the great ones are the culture. And I believe that the culture could be a competitive advantage because it takes, I think, an average seven years or something like that to change culture. So it's not something that you can quickly replicate and think like that. So that's the reason I like people and culture. And last, it probably has to be
the tech. Being an engineer by profession, building a tech enabled future, which is rich with data and AI is something that fascinates me as well. So, yeah, so those would probably be the top three for me. I love those. And I know that our listeners are probably most familiar with our conversations about people and culture. What I love is your intersection of the
technology with people and the importance of that. And we're going to get to that in a sec, but can we just double click on clean energy for listeners who might not be as familiar with that language? What is clean energy all about? And can you give us maybe an example of a project or a case study that you've seen or that you've got planned at AGLs so that we can get a really kind of rich understanding of what impact you're creating there?
Yeah, excellent. Look, I said I started off at Bayswater power station for people who may not know, base water generates 20% of New South Wales energy needs. It's huge. Now, the base water power station is currently scheduled to retire by 2033. Luoyang power station, which is in the Latrobe Valley in Victoria, which we own as well, is due foreclosure by 2035. What this would mean is these two closures would bring AGL's scope one and two emissions down to zero by then.
This would present a unique opportunity for AGL to invest and to build the next generation of assets for the electric age. And we intend to do that by redeveloping and by transforming our large power station sites both in the hunter, electrovascular torrents into low carbon integrated industrial energy hubs that we call. Basically they are powered by renewable energy and complementary industries. So that's what an integrated industrial energy hub means.
I said renewable energy. So we have started, or are going to start very soon, the construction of the LDL battery, which would form part of the energy mix. We are also having a tie up with edimitsu in terms of a muscle broke Musselburgh pump hydro project. And another project in the renewable energy space in the region is the Bowman's Creek wind farm as well. So a combination of wind batteries as well as pumped hydro is scheduled for the region. And they're all in different stages of assessment.
Similarly, I mentioned about the complementary industry. So apart from powering up through renewable means, the hub would be looking at proponents, or to bring proponents into the precinct. We've got about 10,000 land, which is almost like a town or a big town. So in that region, which already has some infrastructure through the Lidl and baseboard of power stations, how could we utilize the land for bringing modern manufacturing, for example? Right?
How can we bring. How can we generate building products from ash? Maybe. Similarly, we have a project which is already functional in a manuka farm. So how can you grow manuka honey there as an agricultural industry? Similarly, we are in the process of developing and recycling precinct, as well as green metals, etcetera. So trying to work with components and bringing various industries to our precinct and powering them up with renewable power is our dream.
As we talk about the future of AGL, the future of the hunter, especially given it is national Reconciliation Week, it is important to recognize that people have lived here for generations after generations, right? They've lived a life based on sustainable use of resources and in harmony with the natural environment. And what I love about everything that you've just shared, Seth, because I work a lot with younger people as well,
and our emerging leaders. And one of the hesitations that I hear around moving into energy or engineering or tech in general, is fears about, is about climate and concerns about how companies have historically held themselves. And what I love, and I'm grateful for you sharing in all the ways that you're
coming at this, really from a systems based lens as well. I think other than just looking at who are we as AGL traditionally and how can we make a tweak, is actually looking at that cross industry sector and looking at collaboration, cooperation, and again, coming back to that term of what is clean energy. I guess for me, the simple interpretation is if we think about all the ways in the past that we've created and used energy in ways that have been harmful to the earth.
Leaders like Seth and AGL are looking at how can we turn this around and how can we maintain and sustain a the lifestyle that we all enjoy, but with more respect and appreciation for our country. So, yeah, thank you for sharing all of those projects. I get excited when I talk to you about a sustainable future. One thing, I think we can have both. Yeah, absolutely. The one thing I want to actually reinforce is that for a sustainable future, industries, government
and communities need to work hand in glove. I think that's the key difference. And none of the entities can do it or achieve that goal by themselves. So it is important. Collaboration, cooperation, to your point, is going to be pivotal for that reason. So can I ask you about a leadership before we dive into the tech? And of course I want to hear about your thoughts on the next generation as well. But what are some of the core values,
if you like, or principles that are driving your leadership today? And I'm also really curious about your thinking in terms of whether that will stay into the future. And when I say future, I'm thinking not just sort of five years, but 1015 years from now. Where are you seeing a shift in terms of leadership demand and needs and qualities from your perspective? Great question. I love those futuristic questions. Look, I think we all know that the world is changing
at a very rapid pace, right? We've got the war, the inflation and the list goes on. Similarly, the industries are transitioning as well. You know, for climate change is one space exploration, you know, most industries are transitioning from one to the other. Obviously technology has been a great influence in that transition. Now unfortunately, in my view, leadership doesn't seem to have kept pace with that change universally. Okay, in what way?
Like, like for example, in my case at least, I did my, my management course, got my degree, and like most thought, I was here to manage people. Now, what I was taught was management, not leadership. They are not the same in my view. Sadly, I was not taught how to inspire people or how to care for people. I had the awesome responsibility of leading. Right. To me, what I've learned over the years after investing in myself is that leadership is the stewardship
of lives. One has the absolute, absolute privilege and the awesome responsibility of leading. That's how I see leadership as. And as a leader, you're no longer responsible for the job per se. You're now responsible for inspiring, coaching, mentoring the people around you. Right? So the way to do that in my view, what I've learned is you got to look at the good in the people, focus on the positive. And when you treat them, when you value them as someone's precious child, it changes the
perspective completely. So in other words, that enables to build a trust and respect. And what I've seen is that people go above and beyond when you go with that approach. And to a great extent, my style of leadership has been based on that success that I've had. And the broader societal benefits of that is that when people feel they are valued and respected and seen and heard, they go home satisfied, which means that they treat their family well and it has got ripple
effects in the society. And more importantly, also, they come back the next day inspired, motivated to do a good job, wanting to contribute. So to me, leadership drives culture and culture drives the performance, right? Or another way of looking at it is that people with purpose drive performance. Oh, I like that. Oh, can we someone write that one down? People with purpose drive performance. I like that. I hope
everybody's writing that one down. That, and I think you're going to have a million people knocking on your door to come and work with you. Tomorrow's Deb. If you're a leader of a business or in charge of a team of people, then chances are you're probably in the thick of getting up to speed on Australia's new psychosocial safety legislation. By law, companies now need to do what they can to protect
their people against stress and burnout. But my question to you is that in creating your policies, procedures and programs, are you accounting for the different kinds of brains in your workplace? Stats would suggest maybe not. In the tech sector, for example, 54% of people identify as neurodivergent. And yet, when we ask employers what they think that number is, they report
back 3%. Now, that gap poses a significant problem, because without specialized understanding of neurodiversity, traditional policies and programs risk missing the mark, leading to higher instances of burnout, stress and growth, physical and mental health challenges and outcomes for our community. But understanding neurodiversity is more than just compliance. It's also about unlocking innovation. You see, diverse companies are 70% more likely to attract new markets and
36% more profitable than homogenous ones. I personally believe that neurodivergent leaders are the different kind of difference makers that our world needs right now. That's why I'm so excited to be
launching the Neuroimpact network. We're changing the game for neurodiversity leadership, and bringing both our neurodivergent leaders and allies together, where we can share science backed strategies that support legal compliance and equip us with everything we need to be able to build neuro inclusive workplaces,
plus peak performance and human flourishing. Science strategies that ensure we thrive and protect our mental health alongside community events so that we can truly connect and share one another's strengths, wins and challenges along the way. Neurodivergent leaders, listen up. I really believe this is our time and our space to shine and it's
such a privilege to be welcoming you into this space. So if it sounds like something that's for you, if you're ready to say goodbye to burnout and hello to innovation that actually delivers impact, I'd love to see you on the inside. Everything you need for the applications are in the link below. I look forward to seeing you there.
And so what about the future of leadership? If we take that as your, I guess, your value and your view of what it means to be a leader, which, by the way, I 100% agree with, where do you see the future of leadership headed? Or where do we need to make some changes? Yeah. So when you're predicting the future, what's important is to analyze the kind of trends. What are the trends saying in terms of what the future is going
to be looking like? Right. So some of the, some of the trends that I've seen clearly indicates, in terms of the skills of the future clearly indicates analytical skills are going to be very important. Creative thinking is going to be really important. The problem solving ability, data and AI are going to be a huge part of business leadership, of course, is going to be front and center for any of these things to
happen. And that curiosity and lifelong learning, sort of an attitude and approach, is going to be pivotal as well. So obviously, if these are the kind of skills of the future, then leaders need to be trained and upskilled to be able to actually deal with these changes. And it's probably worth mentioning that conscious businesses have three or four key fundamental principles that they stick to. Some of them very traditional at the same time, some of them
very futuristic. And I'd probably say having that higher purpose, it's no more, it's about making profits. Well, without profits, businesses can't survive. But that's not why we turn up to work. So we have a higher purpose, which is why we turn to work, which is why we exist. Right. Similarly, having that stakeholder mindset. So when I say stakeholders, not just the customers, but also the employees, the communities, the families, the suppliers, you know everyone.
So it's that shared mindset, is what I mean. Caring for the well being of all stakeholders is what I mean. It's not about money, power or ego. It is about caring for genuine care for the people, and in turn, the purpose of the organization in making life better for everyone. And lastly, I'd probably say the cultural aspect, which we spoke about earlier, I think I read somewhere that worldwide engagement is around 20% only, so, which means that 80% of the people are not satisfied
with their work. And you often hear about, thank goodness it's Friday. And I dream of a world where people say, thank goodness it's Monday. It's Monday. I know. I think you and I are very blessed and we've made that fortune for ourselves to wake up and say, thank goodness it's Monday. It's always a privilege. Speak to people who love the work they do. And that's also the equal challenge, isn't it, is to bring others along that journey and ensure they love the work that they do.
And you've spoken a little also, Seth, to something that we teach a lot at pozify in terms of that importance of the triple bottom line. And yes, of course, profit needs to be there to sustain a business, but that really, we need to start looking at the impact of value on people and on the planet as well, which is all about building that sustainable business future. So that's just
brilliant. I love all of that. And I'm curious also to hear about your thinking for this next generation, because speaking of some of those statistics, I mean, we've got something like, is it 37% of the workforce is projected to be Gen Z by 2030, and 2030 is really not that far away. That's a big shift, really, from a transition in terms of intergenerational impact. What are some of the key opportunities and challenges that you're noticing in business as the generations
come together? And what advice would you give, I guess importantly as well, for that next generation entering into the workforce? Yeah, for me, my daughter is Gen Z, so I get a bit of an insight about how. I know it's only one sample, but it gives a bit of an overview. About a very important sample. Yeah, exactly. At the same time, we were fortunate at Liddell, for example, to have four different generations working at the same time of people.
So that definitely tested to a great extent in terms of how do you get the message across to different groups and how do you work, make them work collaboratively, that everyone benefits. So for me, integration of Gen Cs into the workforce, alongside other generations, present its own challenges as well as opportunities. And to ensure that we have a future fit, sort of intergenerational workforce, we need to focus on a few key aspects, like, we need to focus on fostering the right skills, right
mindsets, right qualities. So when you talk about skills, Gen Z is obviously very technically savvy, whereas the baby boomers and the others, not so technically savvy, but they have the experience and the wisdom. So having that basic digital skill, as in proficiency in using digital tools and platforms, is going to be fundamental. Right. Similarly, understanding some of the emerging technologies like AI, cybersecurity as well, it's become so important in today's business world is crucial.
Having that data literacy is a key aspect, as well as in the ability to interpret data, analyze data that's become so essential in today's world. Effective communication across different media, having that teamwork and that ability to work well, not only face to face, but also remotely, you know, skills and challenges. Some are better than the others. And I think the key is to understand different generational perspectives. At the same time, leaning on the
strengths, as I mentioned earlier, is going to be pivotal. I think flexibility and openness to change, especially in this rapid pace in which the world is progressing. It's something that needs to be a skill that we need to upskill ourselves with. To me, mindset is everything. The mindset makes a big difference in terms of how you turn up to work, how you take on the challenges. And having
that growth mindset makes a big, big difference. Something that we keep reminding the team as well from time to time. Having that continual improvement mindset, similarly, fostering that curiosity about new technologies, trends is a key, important aspect as well. I think having that cultural competency is equally important. You know, an appreciation for diverse culture, to me, is an important
aspect. Similarly, as I said earlier, that intergenerational understanding, you know, and not us and them, sort of a thing, how can we work flexibly with different groups? Building that resilience to cope with and adapt to rapidly changing workplace in the industry is a key aspect. Encouraging an innovative
mindset is equally important. So these are some of the mindsets, in my view, an emotionally intelligent leader, you know, makes, it would make a big difference in terms of being empathetic, in terms of even ethical leadership. Right. You know, being transparent, being vulnerable, you know, holding people to account all of those things would be a great skill to have. Similarly, having a mission oriented sort of an approach is key
as well. Aligning personal as well as organizational goals with a broader purpose, I think it is very crucial, especially, particularly this is important to Gen Zs who value meaningful work and corporate social responsibility. I hear that all the time. And more broadly speaking, I think you touched on it as well. Committing to that sustainable practice is equally important as well. So those are some of the key tips I would
suggest. They're brilliant. I'm really curious also because I hear what you're sharing a lot and I read a lot about it. And more recently I'm sitting between two sets of arguments that I hear almost like a dichotomy. On the one hand, there's the story that to prepare for Gen Z to enter the workforce and to shift towards a more sustainable business future, we want to be thinking about all of these human centric values, qualities,
mindsets, skills. And on the other hand, I'm starting to hear a story that human sustainability is an ongoing problem and that actually there's a large proportion of companies, maybe not yet here in Australia, but certainly in the states, and statistics coming out around companies opting out of investing in their people and investing in diversity training, investing in
personal and professional development for their people. How much of that is scaremongering from your perspective and fear based talk versus are you seeing any shifts? And if so, what do we do about that? Because I can't imagine us entering this new tech enabled future without investing in our people and ensuring they matter. Yeah, I think as I said earlier, there are pockets of change that you see. Some areas for the good, some areas the opposite direction,
unfortunately. And businesses, if you look at trends of businesses which have actually, actually done exceptionally well by focusing on the people, the message is very, very clear. Yeah, I think. I think they talk about, you know, being tough minded and tender hearted. So the point here being you need to have that
masculine qualities as well as feminine qualities together. And businesses who are able to adopt that sort of an approach all, at all levels, definitely seem to see a good culture and which obviously results in good outcomes for the business as well, overall. And the reason to focus on this is not so that you get good outcomes. It happens to be the outcome, the byproduct. You're not doing this for that, for getting a good outcome, but it happens
to be a good outcome, if that makes sense. It does. And in terms of the DNI, I think it is. The research is very, very clear that by having a diverse team, by having an inclusive team, the results definitely outweigh not having them. But the important thing is that inclusivity, just having a diverse team is not going to give you the results. At the same time, just having an inclusive team is not going to give as good as a result as having them both. So I think that that's what I've seen.
Research being shared. The case for people is still in place. In other words, I love that. Thank you. Thank you for reestablishing my trust and faith and hope in our future. I love that. I'm just going to put a blind eye to any of those other readings. Right, Oseth, I'm wondering if you're ready for our quick fire round. I've got a series of questions that I ask all of our guests that I'm going to put together at the end of this season and see what we've gathered in terms of themes.
Are you ready to dive in? Thank you. The first one is what comes to mind when you think of the term impact mindset. Impact mindset. Impact mindset focuses on the positive and the lasting influence, if I can put it that way, you can have on the world. Some of the key qualities about impact mindset would be having that purpose, purpose driven approach, a solution oriented, sort of an approach result focus would be another approach.
Having that empathy and compassion, you know, in the workplace and having that long term thinking rather than the short term gains. Collaboration definitely would be one of them as well. And having. Being adaptable and having that openness to learning would be a key aspect as well. In terms of impact mindset. Yeah, I love all of those things. That's brilliant. You've added a few in, actually, that others haven't before. That's really
interesting, especially that collaboration piece. Oftentimes I hear people reflecting on their own impact, their personal impact. But I think there's a lot to be said about that collective impact as well. Probably also worth mentioning, resilience and persistence. I think often we tend to, you know, once we get. Get an opposing sort of response and we give up, I think it is making sure that if you believe in what you're planning to, I think we need to be
persistent and persistent definitely pays. And having that grit to be able to do that makes a big difference. It does. I'll personally take that note. Thank you, Seth. Because it can be hard, can't it, when you. When you're wanting to make big changes. And it's easy to sort of fold up. But if you genuinely believe that you can see the good in what we are trying to achieve and implement and be impactful, I think we need to persist. Obviously, feedbacks need to be
taken. One thing I probably worth talking about in terms of leadership. Leadership to me is parenting 101, right? So it is the same thing. While we love our kids, we don't give them everything that they want. So it is about making sure that you have the broader world overview. At the same time you're doing the right things so that you're setting them up for the future. That's exactly the same things. It's with those boundaries. Yeah, I really appreciate that. Thank you. What
about the term inclusive impact? Inclusive impact to me is the focus on equity and justice. So that is about, to me, it is about representation. The key aspect is representation. In other words, you can have the numbers but they need to be represented. So inclusive impact ensures that all verses, all voices are heard and consideration the design and implementation of solutions. You've heard from everyone around you, accessibility solutions. Right.
Are we having the right group of people who are going to be impacted by that? So, you know, having that thought process. Similarly, empowerment is a key aspect as well as in the goal is not to help people but, but to empower them to participate meaningfully and reach their full potential. That's what we are trying to achieve. So having that focus definitely makes a big difference in terms of having that inclusive impact. At the same time,
having a positive impact is equally important. So considering the long term consequences, as I said earlier, and actions is pivotal as well. And addressing some of the root cause problems, are we, have we gone to the root cause of the problem? You know, rather than doing some window dressing sort of a thing, once again, I would like to reinforce the importance of a diverse range of having a diverse range of stakeholders enables that collaboration piece which we spoke about as well.
So those are some of the, that's what inclusion certainly means. And as part of the DNI, you know, role that I did at Agile Macquarie, we were fortunate to shift the dial in many of these aspects by following some of these basic principles, which I'm really proud of
having achieved as a collective. Well, if you're happy to share for two minutes a couple of those examples, I know our listeners would love, I would love to hear peel back the curtains a little bit on your own diversity equity inclusion
initiative because you're doing things a little bit differently. Yeah, definitely. So for me, first and foremost, I put my hand up to be the chair of the DNI committee at Agile Macquarie because I've had lived experience and I wanted to actually definitely make a difference to the minority groups in all shapes and forms, irrespective of their sexual orientation, respect of their sex, irrespective of their disabilities and so on and so forth. So. And as a kid, that's what I saw, my dad helping
people around. So it comes naturally to me in terms of making sure that this is how it needs to be done. But I saw that as a great opportunity to make a difference. That's what inspired me to put my hand up. And as I got involved, we were fortunate to have five or six different streams at AGL Macquarie. So we had the indigenous group, we had the cultural group, we had gender group, we had the carers working group, the Shine group, so we had about
six different groups. We had leads for each one of those. And the way we worked it together was to be clear about AGL as a business. What are we trying to achieve in the DNI space? Not only having numbers to represent those groups, it is about participation as well, as I said earlier, so that we're consulting with the right bunch of people, making sure that their sufferings are heard and how we can actually mitigate that. How can we educate
people to make it a better world for everyone through inclusivity? That's what we're trying to achieve. As a collector, I was fortunate to have some really passionate people because this is a thankless job, right? So you got, you have your day job and then you need to find time to do this. So unless you're passionate, you're definitely not going to give your hundred percent. And I was blessed to have a few leads who were extremely passionate about achieving some of these things. So we
aligned ourselves with the overall objectives of the business. At the same time, we threw in our own innovative approach about how this needs to be done. So in other words, typically we had an event like an ADOC week, then the focus obviously is on indigenous culture, indigenous awareness, you know, education programs. But the way we rolled it out was all other groups
helping make that happen. At the same time, when we had a, let's say a cultural event like a Diwali festival or so, then all the other groups helped the cultural team as well. For example, having that connection actually made everyone part of a broader group.
And obviously we want to make sure that this is leader led, which means that leaders need to be willing to be part of that journey as well so that they can inspire their teams, you know, in terms of participation, in terms of representation, in terms of coming forward and being involved as well. We have some really lovely souls who are aligned in the thinking as well. So yeah, it's going to be, it's. Going to be
fun, it's exciting. And what I really appreciated about that approach is that there's a specialty of the lived experience and that expertise and an ability and an opportunity to really drill down into a passion and a purpose area. And yet then the learning that comes from that cross collaboration and everybody coming together for a common purpose is something that I haven't heard of other organizations
doing before. So I hope that that has inspired some others who might be listening today, because you're right, it can feel like when you're volunteering, in some ways a bit of a thankless task. But I think I. The gift always comes back from that shared hope and meaning and purpose that's created and the learning that comes along the way. Absolutely. In fact, one fun fact
that we found when we. When the diversity group actually focused on getting an audit done by the diversity, you know, you know, Council of Australia, we found that they came, did an audit on our site and they said that this is the first site in regional area that we've done plenty of sites in the city, but in an industrial setup, this is the first time that it's ever been done, which blew us away, actually. And we took it as an opportunity. And the team actually have achieved some
incredible results since then, actually, so. Which I'm really proud of as well. So my point is, I think there's plenty of learnings from that. And the journey continues. Yeah. Congratulations. I did not know that. That is an outstanding recognition and achievement, and I'm not surprised.
Before I let you go, I have to ask if there's a top book or a podcast or a source of inspiration that you would love for our listeners to get amongst so that they can also educate themselves on some of these topics we've covered today. For me, I mean, it depends on the topic, obviously. So in terms of leadership, in terms of people and culture, one book that has actually immensely helped my thinking has been everybody matters by Bob
Chapman and Raj Sisodia. That's an incredible book, which shaped many of my thinking. And in terms of leadership, once again, high performance habits has been another one by Brendan Burkhardt. I love technology, as you know. And what book would I. The future is future services five D. Oh, I haven't read that one. The Future Services 5D. Okay. By Jackie. By Jackie Scammel. Okay, I'm reading through that. I'm almost done with that. But it's another good book as well.
But something that most people may not know is that most of the elite universities have got courses in any topic or most topics that you're after, and that's a free course. It doesn't cost you an arm and a leg to actually do. And obviously there's a limit to which you would learn to there are many free courses which you could probably take up. I have taken a few courses up myself to see is this of interest to me and is this benefit, and then probably switch over.
So that may be another way. Plenty of podcasts that exist as well. Something in the clean tech space that I listen very regularly is the Xero from Bloomberg. That's a really good one. In the DNI space, business in color is a great one. I don't know if you've heard that, but beautiful. I find that similarly, no bullshit leadership. AI today is plenty, actually. So I'll be sure to put a list together. They are fantastic. And a few new
ones for me too. And the last one, it's a big one. So I must warn you, for you, Seth, what does it mean to live a meaningful life? To me, a meaningful life is about purpose and contribution. I have to say that it's not a one size fits all for everyone, right? It depends on your values, what gets you out of bed, what are your aspirations, what your experience would shape, what
it means for each individual. But for me, it is about aligning with my values, making a positive difference in the lives of everyone, or at least the people around you. Similarly, growth and fulfillment is a key aspect for me. I like to grow. I like to have that continual learning and evolving sort of a mentality. To be authentic is super important for me. I can't be someone else, so I have to be myself. Having that, maintaining that connection and relationship is super important to
me as well. Forming those strong bonds with the loved ones, as well as feeling a sense of belonging, is a key aspect of that. And one last thing would be living in the present. You know, the power of now, I don't know if you've read the book, but so important, especially with all the distractions that we have in today's world, it is super important to live in the present and appreciate the little things that are in front of
you. All of these things is how I would describe my sort of meaningful life. Thank you. And speaking of the power of now, I have lapped up every single second of this time with you. And I'm so deeply appreciative because I know how beautifully full your schedule is. So thank you for spending time with us here here on classroom 5.0. If listeners are keen to stay in touch or to follow the work you're doing, what's the best way to find you? Would it be on LinkedIn or how.
I'm not super active, but I'm generally active, so definitely LinkedIn would be a good start to reach out. I'm happy to sort of help people if they are after any of those topics that I just now spoke about. Oh, fantastic. Thank you again, sir. As always, Marian, you do an awesome job and best wishes in what you're trying to actually, you know, achieve as well as shape the world. Thank you. Thanks for the opportunity. It's been lovely. Thank you, Seth, and likewise you too. And to
our listeners, thank you again for joining us and your interest in inclusive impact. We will see you next episode. Thanks for joining me for another episode of Classroom 5.0. If this episode sparked an insight for you, why not share it with a friend who might benefit too? Or spread the word by leaving your rating and review. I read every single one and I promise you're interested in impact means the world.
Classroom 5.0 is brought to you by the pozify group, a psychology, coaching, and consulting company specializing in neurodiversity and purpose driven leadership, equipping today and tomorrow's leaders with the future skills and mindsets needed to thrive and create impact. To learn more about our work and to access today's show notes, links, and more episodes just like these, you can visit www.theposifygroup.com dot au podcast. I'll see you next time.