Keep on riding with us as we continue to broadcast the balance and defend the discourse from the Hip hop Weekly Studios. Welcome back to Civic Cipher. I'm your host ramses Ja. He is Rams's Jah. I am Qward.
You are hopefully still or tuning back into Civic Cipher.
And that is what we hope and we hope that you stay tuned because we are joined by Wendy Amara, who is an activist board member of Roots and Wings, the content creator group that uplifts the stories of immigrants, and she's the host of the Yes Muher Build It podcast who can be found online at Wendy Amara. So we are going to be kind of digging a little bit more into the weeds and uncovering really the conservative
approach to immigration. We're going to get some talking points out of the way and fleshed out, and we definitely think it's going to help if you're having tough conversations around the dinner table or at work. So stick around for that and so much more. But right now it is time to be Aba. Become a better ally Baba, and today's Baba. We want you to check out MDEF
dot org. That's IMMDEF dot org that stands for Immigrant Defender's Law Center MDEAF and Immigrant Defender's Law Center is a next generation social justice law firm that defends immigrant communities against injustices in the immigration system. M DEAF was created in twenty fifteen from the vision of a small group of immigration lawyers and.
Advocates who believe there was a better way to.
Protect the due process rights of immigrants facing deportation. At its founding, MDEAF was solely focused on ensuring that every immigrant before the immigration court had a lawyer by their side. However, in the years that followed, they recognized the need to not only help individual sorry individuals facing deportation, but also work towards systemic change that reimagines a more just immigration system.
You are needed in this fight. Become an immigrant defender every day asylum seekers and refugees face new challenges to seeking safety. Follow their work to learn more on how to help immigrants feel welcome with dignity, and you could sign up for their newsletter, donate, or simply learn more at mdef dot org. And we definitely wanted to shout out these folks out because there are a lot of
people around the country who are not in California. Maybe they're not connected to California, but they have an immigrant story or they just have a beating heart and they see the humanity in this moment. And we wanted to make sure that we went through and vetted an organization that you could donate to, even if you couldn't be on the ground protesting or helping out in a physical way, you could send money. And these folks have a full five oh one C three again, check out more and
vet them yourselves. It's immdf dot org. That is Immigrant Defender's Laws Center.
Okay, so.
The conservative approach to immigration, Now, we talked a little bit about this in the first half of the show, and nothing is ever really cut and dry, but I think that oversimplifying immigration has really allowed for them to interject falsehoods into what is a normal immigrant story in
this country. Donald Trump famously says they're sending their worst, their rapist, their murderers, that sort of stuff, right, And by simplifying an immigrant and distilling a human being down to simply a misdemeanor, they may have committed a paperwork violation by naming it something more alarming than what it actually is, which is again in many instances of the
clerical violation. In other instances, it's simply a misdemeanor by calling those people criminals and then using that criminalization of them to justify denying them due process and to you know, kidnap them and sensationalize all of this stuff so that you can peddle it to your base to say, hey, look, I'm an effective leader. I'm getting all these criminals and rapists out of the country and it's not going to
make any material changes to people's lives. I think you mentioned the first part of the show, Wendy, that you know people depend on immigrants. We all depend on immigrants. Immigrants pay taxes, so there's a tax implication there. Immigrants are a huge part of the workforce in many cities around the country, not just LA and these people are our people. They're fabric of our community and they didn't just come here last week. These are people that have
been here decades, have children here, so forth. Right conservatives often overlook that part, but we need to speak to their talking points. So I will start with one that comes up quite a bit, and Que's going to help out of course, because Q and I went through this already. But what would you say to a person that says, well, you know what, they should have come here legally.
Yeah, we get that question quite a bit in our comments section.
I bet you do with.
Our posts with roods and wings. Yeah. Okay, Well, let's break it down. What does it really take to become legal and get legal paperwork right? The last time the process was actually a process was during the Reagan administration. Since then, there has been no clear pathway, no one clear pathway, like here are the five steps you need to take to apply for citizenship, to apply for asylum, for example. So it is difficult. It is a difficult
process that takes years. I know somebody who's been going through the process for ten years, ten years to get their paperwork in order right. That keeps being pushed back from the government. And then every four years we change the administration, so then the laws changed, the policy has changed. So what worked for you five years ago? Oh well now we got a new policy, so that's changed. So you might have already been in process with a certain policy five years ago, and then that changed, and now
new policy, you got to start all over. This is why it takes people ten fifteen to twenty years, sometimes five years, six years.
Right.
Secondly, it's expensive. I don't know if you guys know how much an immigration attorney costs to fill out paperwork. Yeah, we're talking about in the thousands. I've heard people pay as much as ten thousand dollars, five thousand dollars for their immigration paperwork. And that's per person. Right, So if you have a mom and a dad and it's seven thousand dollars at the end of the day to get them through immigration paperwork, then we're talking about fourteen thousand dollars.
What that's a lot of what these families make in two three years, right combined. So it takes a long time. Policies keep changing, there is not a clear pathway. Secondly, it's expensive. A lot of families can't afford it in the long run. Right. Apparently you can get citizenship and a green card if you have a million plus dollars and you just pay directly to Trump. Yeah, and you get that. What's it called the Golden nugget.
The Golden ticket thing.
Yeah, the Golden ticket thing, the Golden ticket thing.
Right, I like the Golden nugget, go with that.
I like it. Yeah, whatever, it's called. So there is a way to buy your citizenship if you're rich, right, And apparently you can also get amnesty by the way, if you know this, if you happen to be South African and white. Yeah, so there is an amnesty program for them because they're under attack in their country. Right,
this is what we've been told. But for the man who's literally been working here for thirty years and has been paying his taxes and everything forever, and maybe even as trying to get his paperwork, maybe he's in process. If he shows up tomorrow for his trial at immigration court, he's going to get picked up by Ice. His case is going to be dismissed, and he's going to get picked up by ice and then sent back to wherever
he came. So even people who were trying to do the right thing, who at this point have tried to follow the path, this is why people don't do it legally. There is no real way to do it legally, quote unquote. It's challenging. And you know what, Mexico's right next door, So you're going to have people that are going to figure out a way to come in. In fact, we used to have programs right that, but ASSETO program was a program that existed for many years where Mexico and
the United States actually traded people to come over. So whenever the United States has needed labor, Mexico has raised their hand and said, okay, we'll send you some of our laborers, and then people came over and worked. To this day, there are sections of Tijuana where people just cross the border into the US work during the day, and they go back to tj And it's been peaceful up until now, up until recent times. But listen, there
have been deportations happening through all of the administrations. So there were deportations happening, you know when Biden was in office. In fact, when Biden was in office, there were more deportations at this point than what has happened now with Trump. But the way in which it's being done is different. It is being done in a terrorising way. I cannot tell you the fear. I, as an American citizen, am in fear because I think I'm going to get stopped
just because I look brown. I'm going to get stopped and asked where was I born? And if I can't come up with it immediately, then they start to question you and this is random. And when we have footage of people going to the swamp meet and just going about their day, American citizens shopping at the local swap meet, which out here in La r swap meets or where
you get some of the best food. I'm the best merchandise, right, that's where you want to and there's ice all over the swap meat and stopping random people who look illegal. I don't know what you guys consider looking illegal, but look illegal, and then actually go up to them and ask them where were you born? Where were you born? What hospital were you born in? What city were you
born in? One man got nervous because he was adopted, and he was like, I don't know, but I'm American citizen, but I don't know where you know, I don't actually know what hospital I was born in. These are questions just to throw them off, to get them to feel an intimidation. That's what's happening, is an intimidation. So if it was easy, everybody would do it. Trust me, everybody
wants to be an American citizen. Is not easy. It's time consuming, the process is hard and keeps changing, and it takes a lot of money and or an attorney. That's why people don't do it the legal way.
Well, I think it's intentionally complicated, because what we've now heard and learned that if you're rich and or white, it's actually quite simple. It's just intentionally complicated for everyone else. So they can check a box and decide that you don't fit, so we're going to get rid of you. It's a very very interesting thing to watch play out in real time and let them determine who's legal or
criminal based on how they look. The first time I heard that, I exclaimed, and people told me I was being fearmongered too, and friends of mine gas lit me because every fear I had for my family became real on election day, because we knew this was happening. This was not some shock or some surprise that they did, you know, as some covert mission. The man campaigned on this idea. We've heard people, strangely enough, say that due
process should be reserved for citizens, not criminal immigrants. What would you say to people who adopt that position? Forgive me for laughing, but it's to hide anger and frustration that I do.
So Yes, no, thank you for that Every human being deserves due process. Every human being and is guaranteed it and is guaranteed it. Thank you.
Yes.
If you are standing in front of somebody and you're witnessing what is happening to them, and this is actually what's waking a lot of people up. Is when we witness it and it's right in front of us, or we're being shown video that we cannot turn away from because there's ten people videoing the same thing, and then you see it from ten different angles, you're starting to understand, oh crap, this is real. This is what's happening to people.
People are being yanked, people are being killed, right, democratic lawmakers are being killed. This is actually what's happening. Every human being deserves due process. Every human being, every mother, every father, all of us can feel it in our hearts. And I think if more people were opening their eyes to this is the truth of what is really happening. Talk to someone who is an immigrant, talk to someone who knows someone who is married to someone whose uncle
is an immigrant, whose father is an immigrant. Hear their stories. Because the more we humanize this, the more people will start to realize, oh crap, this is really happening. This is happening in our streets. This is happening in my family, this is happening in my neighborhood. And that's how we start to open people's eyes and open people's hearts to
the reality. Yeah. Also, let me tell you, I've heard of a lot of businesses, privileged space, businesses, businesses in privileged spaces that are no longer, no longer supporting Trump supporters. So if you walk in with a Maga hat, you're being asked to leave.
Good mm hmmm.
This is starting to happen across the board. So yeah, for that, people are getting it and people are speaking up.
Yeah. I kind of did a deep dive into Nazi Germany and the denazification of Germany in particular, and I I really do feel like, at some point in the future, because I now that I see how big it is and how insidious it is and how kind of evil it is and divisive, at some point this country is going to have to have a deep, deep, deep purge of trump Ism and Maga and so I and that and a lot of people are going to have to eat their words, and they got to come back down
black people streets and brown people streets. You know, a
lot of people that turn their noses up. So and then even you know, another thing that exists on the far right, and it's it's like well documented that it tends to exist in the far right more than it does on the left, on the right than it does on the left, especially so on the far right is sort of like conspiracy theory type of things, right, And these are things that you know, people have to confront in their workspaces, at home, around the dinner table with
their racist uncle or with their Trump supporting grammars or whatever it is that they have to deal with, these people with conspiracies in their heads. So what would you say to people who say, you know, immigration is a leftist conspiracy to get more votes, get more bodies in the country, so these illegal immigrants can come into the United States and vote.
What do you say to people that that's their truth? Yeah, I say, let's talk about history. California, the United States has always been full of immigrants. Are in country that is built on immigration, always and always has been. So there is no like new policy of We're going to bring in more immigrants so that we have more Democrats
and then we get more votes. Right, we can also look at the fact that just because you get more immigrants, doesn't mean you're going to necessarily get the vote, because look at what happened with the Latino population. First of all, the Latino population is very, very diverse. I don't know if y' all know that. We're very diverse, right. Also, South Americans are different. If you talk to Venezuelin or
a Colombian, they think slightly different. I'm from Guatemala. Most people are like, oh, what part of Mexico is that in. I'm like, it's another country. It's not in Mexico, it's Central America. So a lot of people don't even know, you know, what part of the world that's in. So we're very diverse. There's lots of different opinions, there's lots of different policies. Some of us come from countries that
have been taken over by dictators. Some of us come from countries that experience civil war, like in Guatemala there was a civil war, very much funded by the United States, by the way, but that's another topic. So we have differing beliefs. We're not all a monolith. There's different cultural backgrounds, even different ways in which we speak Spanish. Some of us hate the term Hispanic. Some of us love it. Some of us use the term LATINX, some of us
hate it Latina. I mean, have so many different ways right rasa, we don't even know what to call ourselves as a unifying force. So because of this, the differentiation in terms of how we see things, just because we're going to be a country of immigrants doesn't mean we're all going to vote in one particular way. This idea that oh well, let's stop letting immigrants in because if they all come in, then we're just going to become this democratic blue country, I think is a bunch of bs.
People are coming from lots of different countries. We haven't even talked about Asian population, which by the way, is also being targeted by ICE. Vietnamese people, Cambodian people, parts of Los Angeles that have large immigration from East Asia are being target So ICE is showing up at nail salons. ICE is showing up at hair salons like places like that. So this is not just a Latino thing. This is an immigrant challenge. But what I say to them is
we've always been a country of immigrants. I don't think you're going to stop immigration all of a sudden, and you're not going to stop immigration because you're going to realize eventually as a country that there are jobs that Americans simply are not willing to do, and we're going to start to experience the change in the economy. And although Trump I think wants to bankrupt Los Angeles and California, we pay a hell of a lot of money into
the federal government. We are the fourth largest economy California, fourth largest economy in the world, in the world, guys, look up the statistic. It blew my mind. I was like, what California. Yep, the United States is first, but we're right there. We're not that far behind. For number four. You do not want to bankrupt us, and this will not bankrupt us. We will figure it out. We will fight our way to the top, and we will remember. We will, of course remember.
I want to say this before you jump in Q. I want to make sure that I say that. Another thing that I think is important for people to remember is that you know, people that come across the border, because they make it seem like it's an invasion, like there's the borders wide open and they're just letting all these voters in or whatever. First off, it is not an invasion. That's a word that is sensationalized. But these people cannot vote. You know, you can't just come across
the border and vote in the United States election. That doesn't work that way. You know, citizens vote, you know, outside of that, you don't vote. And for people to think that that's true again, you are kind of in the conspiracy theory, sort of part of part of your timeline. And you know, we're just here to remind you that that's just not a real thing.
SOQ go ahead.
You know, prior to this most recent election, voter fraud was a net zero right almost never ever, our election tend to be very very secure, except this last one where they rigged it. And the guy keeps saying on camera and microphones that they rigged it over and over again and nobody cares. But you know, we won't keep saying he rigged it because you know, people might be listening, and we don't want to give people the impression that
the election was rigged. You know that Donald Trump and Elon Musk may have rigged the machines in the most recent election. We don't want to give that impression to people that they rigged the election, because you know, we would never say such a thing on the radio. Right, This has just been such an incredible experience and experiment for all of us. And I know our time is
kind of windening down here. Any thoughts for people who have kind of just lost hope and the things that are supposed to protect us and the idea resilience that we're supposed to have that there's a light at the end of the tunnel, Like, if there was a wear from here, what direction would you point us in?
Yeah, we're from here. Community unity, Yeah, I like that. Yeah. We protect ourselves, we protect each other, and we come together more unified than ever. Community is the medicine. Community is the antidote to what we're experiencing right now.
Well, I uh, I'm not going to disagree with you, because one of the things that Q often tells me whenever we end up in a new city supporting some civil rights organization or you know, we're there to speak or to do a live show or something like that, is we get out of our studio where it's just me and him, and we get around people who feel
the same way, so we know we're not alone. And these people have great ideas and they help us with our ideas and so forth, and that community really does matter, and it fortifies us and it helps us remain strong. And so those are absolutely wise words and words that we intend to live by. So with that in mind, we're going to leave it right here. Thank you very much, Wendy for taking the time to hang out with us.
A real quick shout out your social media, as, your podcast, your website, all that, Yeah.
Thank you so much. You can find me on Instagram at Wendyamara. My website is Wendyamara dot com, and you can find the podcast everywhere that you listen to podcasts. It's called Yes, Movehead, build it.
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