Broadcasting from the Hip Hop Weekly Studios. I'd like to welcome you to another episode of Civic Cipher, where our mission is to foster allyship empathy and understanding. I am your host, Ramsey's job.
He is Ramsy's job. I am q Ward. You are tuned in the Civic.
Cipher, Yes you are, and we would like for you to stick around today because we are going to be talking to the one, the only doctor Ebram x KNDy. Now, for those who don't know, Doctor Ibram x Kindy is a National Book award winning author of sixteen books for adults and children, including ten New York Times bestsellers, five of which were Number one New York Times bestsellers, including How to Be Anti Racist. That's certainly a book that
we've discussed on this show more than once. We've taken a lot of content from that book, that book to conceive of segments that we thought would be meaningful and useful. But there's there's more than that, of course, But for those who don't know, How to Be Anti Racist was described in the New York Times as the most courageous book to date on the problem of race in the
Western mind. Add to that that doctor ibramax Kindi is a person who goes viral consistently online whose ideas about the state of this country are certainly a thought provoking and they lead to the sort of discussions that we feel are necessary on this show. And so for us to be able to have a conversation with him today, it means the world. So stick around for that. The first part of the show, we're going to be discussing, you know, just kind of the current state of the
world and what we need to know. And for those of us who feel like we need to resist, we'll learn, you know, what that looks like nowadays. And for those that don't, well, at least know what we're up against. But before we get there, as always right now, it is time for us to start with some ebony excellence, shall we? I think that we shall. And today's ebny excellence comes from the sports. I will share a bit.
Who is Young Mullah Ynom as video of black pilot goes viral on TikTok for his dreads and grills as he thanked God for the successful flight. Young Mullah Hynom, a black pilot, received criticism for wearing dreadlocks with grills on his teeth after releasing a video of himself with grills and dreadlocks after a successful flight. A black pilot name Young Mullah is receiving criticism and doubts about his abilities owing to his non conventional looks, which has stirred
a debate between social media users. However, many have come to the black pilot's defense, citing his skill set which saw him become not only a pilot but a captain,
which negates how he looks. Young Mullah is viral on TikTok, where he often posts videos about his work, and the reason why we thought it was important to shout him out is because in the age of attacks on DEI, in the age of attacks on affirmative action, in the age of really attacks on all things black from an oppressive political system, in many people's opinions, it is important
that we celebrate our culture, our people, our accomplishments. And this is the platform that we've built to do just that. And when we came across the video, of course we saw a pilot the same as everyone else, who has a gorilla and wears his hair and locks. But you know, the comments section made it seem like he wasn't qualified to even be a co pilot, but he has enough stripes to actually be a pilot. And I think with a look like that, it suggests that he probably had
to work even harder. And if we don't acknowledge that, no one else will. And so from where we sit, young Mulah, as you like to call yourself, keep going. I checked out a few more of your videos. You're an inspiration be yourself, and you know, keep flying and if you thank God at the end of your flights and keep doing that, and we'll keep checking out your videos. But certainly commendable and wish wishing you all the best. All right, doctor Ebram X, kindy welcome to the show.
It is an honor we say that from time to time, but whatever is higher than that. That is how today feels. We've been just really excited in the studio looking forward to this conversation and we couldn't be more pleased that you would take a moment to come and just share your thoughts with us now for our audience that may not be intimately familiar with the work that you do and so forth, and of course we gave a brief introduction.
Do us a favor and tell us a little bit about yourself, maybe a little bit about your upbringing, your background, what led you to today's conversation, Just to kind of bring folks up to speed so they know who we're talking to today.
Sure.
So I'm a professor an author. I write books on the history of racism and even what it means to be anti racist, which is to say what it means to challenge racism. And I was born and raised in Queens, New York, went to fam You at FAMU, I started thinking about wanting to write as a journalist on racism. When to get my masters in Black studies because I didn't believe that since I was black, I was automatically
an expert on black people. And then when I was there, I really saw the life of the professor and saw that I felt like I'd have more freedom, so to speak, to really think through and write in research, you know, really for the liberation of black people. So I decided to become a professor. And here I am.
I love that.
I think it goes without saying that you've been critical of the current administration in your opinion. I know this will be hard to narrow down, but what are the three biggest threats to Black Americans under this Trump administration.
So I think I think the first, in no order would be.
This effort at eliminating diversity, equity, and inclusion, because the real sort of desire behind that is to resegregate this country and to eliminate our presence, particularly in places that are coveted and in places of power. I would say, secondly, the efforts at really the mass deportation of immigrants. So
African Americans. The overwhelming percentage of African Americans are descendants of enslaved Africans, and we're likely here even before most the white Americans got here, but they still conceive of us as aliens, as illegal, as not truly Americans. And so I actually, I know a lot of black folks aren't worried about that because they know they're born in this country, their grandparents were born in this country. But I am because you know, once because simultaneously they're trying
to do away with even birthright citizenship right. So to me, there's a connection there. And then the third thing, you know, I would also say, is this willingness to weaponize the the FBI and policing potentially at levels we haven't seen since the sixties, and and you know, as many as many people know.
The civil rights movement and the Black power movement.
Certainly there were internal strife, but there were so many organizations and leaders who were targeted by the FBI and policing forces really imploding or exploding, you know, our movements. And and and I see something similar happening now in which, you know, over the next few years, we're going to see leaders and organizations.
Being undermined.
And and and and and and really being destroyed, and and it's going to be made to seem as if they are the problem, that they did something wrong, and we won't necessarily know the hands of spies and FBI agents behind that.
Yeah, there's another component here too that I think that a lot of us who were trying to motivate people to vote during the last election, a lot of us that were concerned about Project twenty twenty five. There's an additional element with this administration that a lot of us did not even conceive of, and that is Elon Musk. And you know, for all intents and purposes, Twitter and by extension, you know, other social media platforms, but Twitter in particular is.
Sort of a.
Community watering hole. It's almost like something that there's a public discourse element there. It serves the community, and yet it's held by a private citizen right and so it's not subjected to FCC laws in the same that like radio stations were and so forth. And they don't have to give back to the community in the way that television stations radio stations do per the FCC guidelines. And so it provides a benefit to the community, and the community by and large uses and consumes it, but it's
subjected to the whims of a private individual. And with the emergence of Elon Musk sort of functioning almost like an elected representative, though he is not talk to us a bit about what threat, if any, is associated with Elon Musk in particular, and of course, you know, to to a lesser extent or a lesser degree folks like Facebook, Mark Zuckerberg and other folks like him, and what we can do about that that threat.
So Elon Musk comes from a family of people who.
Not only literally went to.
South Africa because of apartheid, but then became major defenders and champions of apartheid. That's that's that's Elon Musk's family people who literally they're not they were you know, his his grandfather was in Canada and was like, Yo, look at that white supremacy. They're doing that really well over in South Africa. Moved to South Africa with Elon Musk's mother and and became a major defender. So that's that's
Elon Musk. So for any black person to think that Elon Musk or even Twitter is in any way is anything but an engine of white supremacy, you only need to look at Elon Musk's own port of personal history
and what these leaders are seeking to do today. It just reminds me of you know, one of the most classic books in African American history, which was written by Carter G. Woodson called The mis Education of the Negro, and that book and Cartigie talked about the ways in which our schools systematically miseducate us, systematically create our own ignorance so that we can ultimately not confront racism and white supremacy.
But what these social.
Media companies are doing, namely Twitter, is they got that down to a science, Like they're able to micro target people, so you know, through their algorithms, they're able to figure out each of our weakest spots and or those areas, those groups of people we really don't like, or those reasons why we think there's a problem with black people, and constantly feed us that information, force feed us that poison so that we continue to maintain you know, that
the problem is black people, and we don't even know that it's happening to us, that they're poisoning our minds, that they're force feeding us, that they're micro targeting us where we're weak, But that's precisely what they're doing.
You know, we've noticed a lot of corporations voluntarily rolling back or completely getting rid of DEI initiatives, and historically one way to fight back was through boycott. I think as of last year, or maybe even as recent as the beginning of this year, the total buying power of the black consumer is estimated around two trillion dollars. That is a more impactful weapon of leverage than I think even black people realize. Recently, Al Sharpton has called for
black people to boycott. You know, these these companies who have made trillions of dollars off of our support. Do you think that's a good idea? Do you think there are there is something better that we can do. I'd love to hear where you stand there.
So I actually do think it's a good idea, and and and it's not and it's a good idea that that's based in history. So of course, two of the most pivotal moments of the civil rights movement we're boycotts.
Of course, there's the Montgomery bus boycott, and I don't think we have fully been taught that the reason why Montgomery the city essentially capitulated, was because black people were the primary ones who were taking the buses right, and so through boycotting those buses, we literally bankrupted the system.
The second one, which we don't know as much about, is I'm sure people are familiar with those images from Birmingham where those young people are being shot with water hoses, and so that was in nineteen sixty three where young people were sort of marching in Birmingham. What was also happening is they specifically decided to do that demonstration on
Easter weekend. And the reason why they did it on Easter weekend is because Easter weekend was a huge buying day in Birmingham, in downtown Birmingham, so they organically created a boycott of Birmingham's store, which then compelled the owners of those stores to feel like, Okay, we can't have too much more this right, we need to come and negotiate an end to Jim Crow segregation. And so boycotts historically have been incredibly effective, you know.
And I'm just.
Giving those two examples in you know, in Alabama, and I think they can be effective now. Now it's gonna take time, right and it's gonna take organizing, but I do think it can be effective.
Now.
I want to I want to rewind just a bit because you said something earlier, and I think that we can make that live a little bit more for our audience today. So let's let's say that we have some listeners who maybe they're not directly connected with immigrants, immigrant communities. They it doesn't feel real to them. Let's say that they've listened to the the debates during the campaign season and they've listened to this. I'd say what they're going to say that, I'd say what they're going to say.
You mentioned that immigration is one of the things that you know, people should be concerned about. Let's connect that if we can a little bit more to outcomes in this individual who's listening to their lives. If they don't themselves know someone who's an immigrant, how does this current let's call it attack on immigrants, how does this affect those listeners' lives?
So let me just speak first rhetorically.
Okay, the President of the United States has described black nations in the same way he's described black communities the same He's used the same language.
So black nations and black communities are incredibly dangerous to the point in which we're all living in hell. So the way he's framed black people abroad and black people at home is pretty much the same. Then that same president has not only advocated for border walls so that black people and brown people won't be able to come in the United States, he's also advocated for border walls around white suburban communities.
Like he is literally argued.
Uh and and and and eliminated policies that allowed us to gain better access to affordable housing and others, you know,
in predominantly white community. Uh, in predominantly white community. So it's interconnected in that sense, But I think in a larger sense to me, from the standpoint of racist white Americans, they see people of color in the same from the same vantage point, whether we are a citizen or whether we're an immigrant, and their advocacy of policies and programs that refuse to give us as African Americans equal access to opportunities and resources dovetails their refusal to provide immigrants
with access to opportunities and resource It's all connected, but they also recognized that the people who are struggling the most are also going to need more resources. So there's a reason why they pretty adeptly decided that they were going to take immigrants in Texas, in Arizona, in Florida and send them on planes and buses to Chicago, to Detroit, to New York City. They didn't do that by happenstance.
They did that because they wanted us, as African Americans, to feel as if immigrants were taking resources that were ours, so that we could be just as upset as white Americans. So I'm saying that to say they tricked us, and frankly, there's enough resources for everyone and opportunities for everyone, but they've led us to believe that there's this sort of zero sum that we as African Americans we have to sort of protect ourselves because you know, if we start
advocating for immigrants, then they're going to take our resources. No, what actually happens is we're empowering people who are going to take our resources.
That's what actually happens.
You know, I want to add to that, because the truth is is that we live in a border state, so we were able to see a lot of the fear mongering, a lot of the weaponization of the plight of immigrants, a lot of villainization and demonizing of immigrant communities. And I don't want to pretend like there's not an issue with immigration in this country. All countries deal with that on some level or another, and you know the process, I'm sure it evolves according to the country's sensibilities and
needs and so forth. But you know what I remember is that there was supposed to be a border bill that was supposed to be sent to the president, and Donald Trump stepped in intentionally and said, uh, you know, Republicans don't approve that or don't vote for that border bill, even though it was a bipartisan bill, And he instructed Republicans not to move forward with that so that he could run on run his campaign on Joe Biden having
a weak border. And so because we covered that in the news and then subsequent quickly saw him campaign on it again. Us living in a border state, we saw the impact that that has on real people and not just migrants. You know, we live in a place where there's a lot of this used to be Mexico where
we live. So there are Mexican people who, you know, for all intents and purposes, go back generations on this land, long before this land was ever even a part of the United States, who live in fear now because they can be profiled and with the broad police powers that you know, Donald Trump was suggesting he would give to police. It's reminiscent of SB ten seventy, which is something that in Arizona, you know, we had to deal with, and you know, it's it's just really a sad state for
us to be in. But you know, conversations like this certainly help us get to the bottom of it.