Welcome to another episode of Civic Scipher. Iamy host Rams's Jack.
And I am the other host. Uh, Quentin, that's what.
We're gonna go with this week, Just Quentin Quentin growing up with your government.
Yeah, I got a lot of I got a lot on my mind right now, bro, So I couldn't get my I can't even I can't even get my normal intro off everything.
You're not cool, that's all right. Well, listen about.
As upset as I've been in a very long time, and I'm trying to keep a at least some sort of smile on my face, so I don't fully allow myself to kind of slip into just feeling negative today.
I appreciate that, but you do understand that, you know, sometimes when you're dealing with it, my job is to be a little stronger because I know you're always stronger when I'm going.
Through it too.
So this is the space for it, and we're gonna have our therapy today. We got a lot of important things to talk about. Some are encouraging and some are naturally a bit disheartening, but you know, all of it together is the reality that we have to deal with. So if you're tuning in, be sure to stick around. We're going to be talking about a civil suit that is moving forward against a police officer who shot and
killed Oh shot. I believe the dog survived a dog, and obviously there's some natural comparisons we have to make there. And then a little later in the show, we're going to talk about the eroding support for the BLM movement. I don't want to alarm anyone because it's not eroded, but it certainly has waned a bit, and that's the reality of the situation. We have to deal with it, and we will, and plenty of other things to stick
around for as well. But first, like we always do at this time, we are going to talk about some Ebony excellence. So this week I'm really proud of this young lady got a story from a woman named Aaron Jackson. She took first place in the women's five hundred in Toamasao Mazowiecki, Poland, the first stop of the speed skating World Cup season. In the process, she became the first black woman to win a World Cup. She beat out Japan's defending twenty eighteen Olympic champion now Kodiara by zero
point one three seconds. The competing field also included all three of the medalists who competed at the World Championships in February twenty twenty one, and event Jackson did not compete in. According to the Associated Press, prior to her win on Friday last Friday, her previous best World Cup finish was in the ninth place.
She told the.
Dutch broadcaster INOS that her win was a big surprise, adding I was hoping to be in podium position and she is also dreaming of Olympic gold. But pronounce anyone's game, and she has been celebrated online by lots of folks, and of course there's lots to celebrate there. Anytime someone you know takes center stage in a sport that's not known to be associated with, you know, their race, or their culture or whatever like that, it certainly news worthy.
But around here.
We also understand there's a lot of behind the scenes stuff that folks tend to endure. Think black person in an event based in snow, and so for us it's a little bit more special to acknowledge that ebony excellence because we know that oftentimes it's not as easy as I just made it. Of the podium sometimes there's a lot of nights where you have to really deal with your identity and a lot of backlash for being simply who you are. So once again, shout out to Aaron
Jackson this week's of any Excellence. Now, I have on this show made comparisons to.
Dogs before.
I have made comparison comparisons to white, blonde haired young women before.
In terms of.
If justice is really blind, this person should be treated the same way as a blonde haired, white, you know, attractive woman. You know, justice should be blind and not distinguished between persons, and we've found that that is not often the case according to our view of the world. A mode arbery, you know, had he been a white woman, you know, he might not have been chased in a truck and gunned down by people trying to take the
law into their own hands. And you know, you can take that comparison and apply it to pretty much every story. And you see that black people are treated differently by either those with authority or those who feel like they have some authority over black bodies and how black bodies
should move in time and space. But the one about dogs, that comparison doesn't come up until we're talking about a different like like violence specifically, not necessarily the treatment or the interactions or you know, the assumed guilt or whatever, but the actual treatment of the physical being right, and the idea there is to suggest that with respect to public outcry, and certainly prior to twenty twenty, because this isn't something, this isn't a new comparison for me. I've
been on this hill. This is the one I'll die on. You know, I noticed a long time ago that if people mistreat cats, dogs, you know, whatever, you know, there's
oftentimes a public outcry, certainly if it's on video. Because I couldn't tell you why, because I'm not a white person, but I would imagine that oftentimes my white brothers and sisters, who perhaps don't interact with black folks as often as people who live in cities, do you know, they maybe have a relationship with dogs a little bit more differently or I don't know, I don't know what it is.
But the thing that always surprised me is that in these videos, in these videos where we're seeing people get stomped out by the police or beaten or shot or whatever the case is, especially when they pose no real threat, you know, it's it's ready fire aim. We did a couple episodes ago about that ready fire aim mentality found in a lot of police interactions that those white folks the Middle America, white folks who perhaps don't interact with
a lot of black people. They the surprising part is that they maybe it just doesn't feel like they relate to the videos. They see the human part of the videos, and they relate more to a video of someone abusing a dog. And that's why you get that outcry and that that outrage, and so make that comparison often. I believe it often challenges my white brothers and sisters who you know, have difficulty connecting, you know, right and wrong, to the right and wrong things, or that want a victim, blame.
Or whatever the case is, whatever they're.
Dealing with, in that moment, it stops them and has them challenge their own prejudices. Would this be okay if the officer did this to a dog?
Yes?
Or no?
Those are your only two options? Is the answer?
No?
Then why is it okay for an officer to do this to a human being? Is it because this human being is black? Let's ask the question differently. If this was a white woman, who was pretty and was nineteen years old. Would this be okay for the officer to do this to that woman?
Is the answer? Still?
Now, now you're what you're doing is coming to terms with your actual prejudices, right, And so this is why these questions have always been very important, and whenever I've been on the radio and having to ask questions that really compel those folks on the fringes to really consider their biases and really come to terms with their prejudices
and their racism. And you know, people have had a tough time with that one over the years because no one wants to be called racist, and I think a lot of folks in their heart of hearts don't really feel that way.
But where is the outcry? Where is the reaction? You know?
You know, I had a conversation with a close friend once upon a time who it was about the Amad Aubrey case where you know, he walked into a house. This is the way the story goes, according to my memory. These aren't in my notes right now, so forgive me if it's not entirely accurate. But amd Aubrey walks into a house that's being constructed, takes a look around, walks out, goes on his merried way and gets followed by some folks in the truck. You know, a little bit of
a struggle ensues. They put a shotgun out, shooting me guys in the street. And had that been you know, the the nineteen year older, twenty six year old, pretty blond haired, white female snooping through the house just to check out what's going on. Does she end up in that same situation? Right, So, the conversation I was having with my friend, he said, well, that guy shouldn't have been in that house. It wasn't his property. Obviously, if you're in there, you're up to no good. And you know,
he had all these like this victim blaming mentality. Again, a good friend of mine, and he if you're in case you're wondering, he is a white male, a little bit older than me, but he's married to a black woman and as a result, has black children, lives a very multicultural life. He's surrounded by different types of people all the time. I believe him to be a very loving man, a very dear friend of mine, and I had to reframe the problem for him in the same way.
And then I told him something that I still believed to be true because he knows me, he loves me. I said, once upon a time I built the house in a city. Have built the house from scratch, and I was interested in the construction. You know, I paid for the house and the builders were building it. Let me be clear, But I would go and visit my plot of land and check it out. It was the coolest thing to me. I wanted to know what was
inside of the walls. So oftentimes I'd be out in a field for everyone to see, looking at the cement that was poured that would go underneath the tile that I ordered, you know, And it just fascinated me to observe this process. And if I had lost my life in much the same way that a Mod Aubrey lost his life, would you be upset about that? And the thing is, we can't Ahmad Aubrey's dead. He can't tell his version of the story. Why were you in the house? Were you checking it out?
You know?
Obviously we saw that he wasn't stealing anything. Furthermore, what do you steal from a house?
What harm do you?
Cause he was on a jog, he stopped it, and that's the gate somebody thought was cool went on about his business.
This is the way the story came back. You know.
The trial still going on as of this recording, so we'll see what happens. But in any event, making these comparisons I think is very important today's story. What it does is it shows why these comparisons are necessary. So allow me to read. My sources come from the Nation, dot Com and the.
New York Post.
By the way, US Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit, which by the way covers Minnesota, Missouri, and others, issued a ruling that pierced the veil of qualified immunity and allowed a lawsuit to go forward against a police officer that shot two dogs. The facts of the case are not in dispute. In twenty seventeen, Minneapolis police responded to a house along those acts incidentally set off at the
home of Jennifer LeMay. One of her kids had tripped the alarm by mistake, and when the home security company called Lamay told him the council of the alert, the cops were already on the way. One officer went to the front of the house and was met by one of Lamay's kids, who told the officer there was no problem, but a different cop, Officer Michael Mays, went around the back of the house, scaled a privacy fence, and ended up in the backyard. There, the cop was greeted by
LeMay's service dogs, Saraq and Rocco. Now that with a dog named Sarah, I feel like I have to tell you that LeMay was a white woman. She just named her dog Sarak. But but uh, she might have a little bit of culture, because that's that's awesome to me.
That's so funny. Anyway, Uh, the officer and a lot of.
Bit of she got a lot of bit of culture.
She named her dogs, right, So anyway, you did that for the temple one time. But uh so both of the were five year old American Staffordshire Terriers. I'm not a dog person. I don't know what that means. Mays says. Sarrac quote charged him, but his body camera footage shows the dog walking toward him, wagging his tail. Mays backs up, Sarraq keeps approaching, and Mays shoots the dog in the face. There is a video. I don't recommend you watch it. Sarak runs away, but at that point Rocco moves toward
Mays again. In a friendly tail wagging manner. Mays then shoots Rocco multiple times. Both dog lives. Both dogs lived and are still going to go to heaven, but at a much later date, hopefully. The Eighth Circuit Court ruled that Mays was not entitled to qualified immunity because he did not face imminent danger. Now that's a big deal, because qualified immunity I read online. I don't know how true it is. I only try to pull from reputable sources, and if I don't, then I will say that. But
I read online. There's like a police union dot com website or something like that that the police union was really trying to ensure that this officer could continue to hide behind qualified immunity and trying to reframe the narrative that the dog was growling or something like that to justify the officer's fear and shooting the dog. They were
really trying to protect this officer. But the court argued that Mays violated a clear constitutional rule, finding that it is clearly established that an officer cannot shoot a dog in the absence of an objectively legitimate threat. This language is important.
The court is.
Saying that a general fear of dogs or specifically pit bulls, is not enough to justify deadly force. The threat to the officer has to be an objective one. Now, these are some sort of terriers. I don't know if they look like pitbulls or.
Yeah, the stafford Shire Terrier looks almost exactly like a pitbull.
Where is bond? Okay?
So this case is important because well, first, let's let's peel back a couple of layers of qualified immunity.
Okay, you just just heads up to you and our audience. You just almost lost your co host.
M hm.
You just as you just explained the reason why qualified immunity did not hold up in this case. I just almost unplugged, closed my computer and just left. Those reasons have been true in so many videos involving black people.
I know, and and and I feel like I have to say this. I am one of those people where if a fly comes into my house, then the fly is in my house. If I can catch them and release them, I'll do it. I don't do roaches, and I don't do mosquitos, but everything else. If you're on your journey and it's not you know, you know, I'm not going to take your life. You know, Mosquitos is a little different, and roaches have provided that they're in
my house, that's different too. But I value life full stop, so I'm not necessarily trying to compare the life of a dog to a human being. I think that there is a comparison that should go without saying there, but only because in theory our capacity to empathize with other human beings. We're human beings. We should be able to empathize with other human beings. That should be prominent, It
should be assumed, it should be consistent. You know, if you found a baby bundled up somewhere, you're not just going to say wow, neet baby and keep walking. Right. There's something in us that says, oh my gosh, this baby is alone. I now have to stay with this baby until we figure out where this baby goes. Right, There's some part of us that says we have to respond to the humanness. There's a human component that compels us to empathize and to defend and take action and preserve life.
Right.
I don't imagine anybody listening or not listening, would argue with that statement. If they do, then you know, there are some sicknesses that we could explore, but for the most part, healthy control would govern themselves in that manner. So no life is greater than or less than another life. But I do believe that in theory and human beings
should empathize with other huge uman's first. So this comparison is not to devalue the life of the dog, but rather to create a critical examination of why the courts will take action in this instance. And you know, pierced the veil of qualified immunity. But when it comes to black bodies, you know, oftentimes they just don't do that.
Your thought's cute.
And even if not first, as is true with black lives matter two. Right, even if you're not going to place the value of our lives first, right, because that has never even been our request for hours to be first or greater than or more paramount, how about also right,
Like we're as important or valuable as a dog. Right, we don't have to be first more important for most No, just you know, if the dog that presented no danger constitutionally could be protected and therefore qualified immunity removed, what about the black kid or dad or brother or daughter or mother or cousin or sister or brother or you get where I'm going here.
Let me add something right there. Okay, so.
The dog is approaching the officer, right, and the officer uses this to suggest my life is in danger. I needed to take action.
Okay. Countless examples of black people.
Running away from the officers because and I remember watching the Fresh Prince of bel Air there was a jazz for those that haven't seen it, DJ Jazzy Jeff as a DJ hero of Mine and cues. But jazz Play was a character on Fresh Prince of bel Air and he said, uh, there was a line in the show. I couldn't tell you which episode, but he said, you know, I I stopped doing what I was doing and put my hands up before I got six warning shots in the back, right. And it was supposed to be funny.
But this was in ninety two, ninety three, so you know, very much part of my childhood. But we know this going all the way back. You know, policing and black bodies have never really meshed well together. But running from the police is something that we know happens because the police, by and large have always been something to fear because of situations like that. You know, and you know we can name I forget the man's name, and he deserves better. But in Georgia at a Wendy's, I'll find his name.
But there was a Wendy's last year. He was in his car, yeah he he, He stopped because he was drinking. He stopped and fell asleep in his car, and the police showed up, and uh, he got he was talking to the police at first, got afraid or got scared and tried to run away, and they shot him in the back and he died. And that's not an isolated incident.
Uh Brooks is his name.
Rashard Brooks exactly.
And then uh Jacob Blake shot in the back a bunch of times, and on and on, you know, and so this is a real thing. Remember this dog was walking toward the officer, and the courts uh pierced the veil of qualified immunity. But in either of those cases, the officers are able to hide behind qualified immunity, which means that they will not be criminally prosecuted. Civil I don't know, but you know, the way this story goes with criminal justice in this country wouldn't surprise me. You
begin to see that no matter what you do. Okay, who was the man that was in his car, and he let the officer know he had a gun.
He was with his I think it was his girlfriend.
He says, I have a gun and I'm a card carrying member of the Gun Carriers Club. And the officer got Afred, pulled his gun out and shot him in the passenger seat. And we saw the video pick up right there where he was slumped over in the front seat of the car. You know what I'm talking about?
Yes, yeah, I know this story.
Okay, I forget his name.
Fortunately, you know why you forget his name?
Ramses I knew because there's so many.
Type type black man shot on Google, and Google automatically populates the word police and then thousands of stories pull up. Sure, that's why you can't remember his name.
The point is, and he deserves better, and I will find his name. To the point is is that whether you're communicating with the police, whether you're silent, whether you're sleeping, whether you're running, poured or running away from no.
Matter what, whether you're home in bed, hey, the list goes on. These things can happen.
And what happens is they keep happening because officers are able to hide behind qualified immunity. There's no effectively no consequences for it provided the officer says I was afraid, but the court says that in the instance of this dog, there's no reason to be afraid. Qualified immunity does not apply and this trial can proceed. So imagine the slap in the face that every black person who's felt the sting of police injustice feels on the heels of that.
And that is an awful place to leave it. But unfortunately out of time for this part of this show, so we're going to have to move on, but certainly something to ponder there. And you know, my belief is that we just got to do better as brothers and sisters. We really have to empathize and figure out ways to do that. So hopefully we'll find out a way to do it.
Stick around your radios.
We're coming back with more cipy cipher right after this