Welcome to another episode of Civic Cipher. I'm your host, rams is Jah.
They call me q wardon it just so happens to be my name, and that the truth and today we have a lot to talk about. Seems to always be the case in today's climate. It life itself continues to give us very very important things to talk about and to touch on.
Yeah, and of course today is no exception. You know, we haven't been able to do it just yet. But well, first off, Happy Halloween everyone. I'm gonna start off on a positive note here. I hope everyone is safe and has a good time out there. If you're gonna do whatever you're gonna do, stay safe. But for today's show, we need to discuss something that we've hadn't been able to touch on just yet, and I want to talk about ice cube and ice Cubes working with the Trump
administration and what that means. Another thing I want to touch on, of course, is Walter Wallace Junior. If you don't know, he is a young man who was killed by police a few days ago in Philadelphia. I want to say they shot him maybe eight or ten times something like that. There's more to the story, of course, so stick around. We're definitely going to touch on that
and a couple of other things. But first order of business, this is a homegrown story that made national news, at least homegrown for Qan and myself being from Phoenix, or rather from Arizona. We're going to talk about a realtor in scott Stille, in neighboring city here to Phoenix in Arizona,
a realtor who declared himself to be openly racist. And I think that it kind of I think this story really illuminates how folks can carry some really strange sentiments, some really hateful and hurtful sentiments and you not even know it and proudly yeah exactly. So before I get into telling this story, I want to tell you a little bit about the background of Arizona and the folks that live here. So Arizona is still very much the
wild West. Arizona is one of those places that you can walk around with a gun on your hip or wherever you want to carry it openly, where everyone can see it and be intimidated or afraid of it, and no one will do a thing. Now, there's lots of places they can do that. This is the United States. There is a second Amendment, But Arizona is very much one of those places, and there is this there's still this cowboy energy in the way uh in the in
the way of like almost like cowboys versus Indians. These aren't the cowboys that are the heroes in everyone's mind. These are the cowboys that are the heroes in their own mind. Now in Arizona, if you're not familiar, there's very much in certain parts of the state, in the in the city, in Phoenix where we live, and in Old Town Scott still very much is celebration of Native culture, native history, just the lay of the land. You can't really get away from it. It's beautiful and lots of
folks really appreciate the aesthetic. But in terms of the the architecture, in terms of the infrastructure, in terms of the attitudes, it's very much a celebration of cowboys conquering the land, you know, frontiersmen pioneering the West and taking over lands and staking their claim, et cetera. And I
think that that energy still persists to this day. And the reason I wanted to tell you that is so you understand and the backdrop for the story of this racist real term Now, if you haven't seen the video, I employ you to watch it. You can check out civicsipher dot com or you can check out any of our social media at Civic Cipher. The video is still up and you'll see an Asian man approaching a black man and they have it out. But for those who haven't seen the video, I'll paint a picture for you.
There are there's one black man who's being filmed by another black man, and.
There are the young man is a social media influencer if you will, or a big YouTuber. Sure, so he's just.
Capturing some content for his channel. Of course, I g for his social media and this is this is important to the story. He's he just moved to Arizona. My understandings, he moved recently to Arizona to Scottsdale from Michigan. That's important to the story. But I want to take a sidebar real quick. Lots of folks come here from Detroit, Michigan or Michigan at large. Estate Q is one of those people, indeed, and I know that when you come
to Arizona from Michigan, it's a whole new world. Like Aladdin and Princess Jasmine.
There's no better way to explain it than that it's a whole new world, just like Aladdin and just like Princess Jasmine.
Gentlemen, so taking pictures should be normal for someone who comes from a place like that to flex like this.
Not even like not even something that you have to think about as soon as you, oh, my goodness, what.
Is exactly grab a picture? So and I want to further suggest to anybody, think in your own mind, if these two men were not black, if they were less mellenated, they would be regarded as tourists taking photos full stop.
But because they're black, I think the ready assumption from the Asian man that's not necessarily important to the story, but it helps to distinguish the two parties involved regards them as criminal, I think, largely because they're mellenated, or only because they're mellenated, as you'll find out as the sorios. So what happens is these guys are minding their business, taking their pictures or doing their videos or whatever, and they get approached by the older Asian man who walks
up to them and asks them what they're doing. They respond, you know, we're taking pictures, but why are you taking pictures of us, leading us the viewer to believe that the Asian man had been taking pictures of them prior to his walking up to them. Afterwards, the Asian man suggests something like, well, we've had some trouble around here, you know, something like that, and he's and you know, do you guys live out here? And the guy say, yeah, we live here. You know we're not. We live here.
We're doing fine, and then says back to the Asian man, you're you're aware that you know of all these stories happening with white folks harassing black folks for no reason, and and he says, all these racist white folks says something like that, and the Asian man says, well, I'm racist. Never heard anything like that before. This is so calm about it, but yeah, if you watch a video, he says.
It sure enough, proclaimed it.
Yeah, And then afterwards declares Scottsdale to be a either a inward free zone or a no no in word zone. Yeah. And he didn't say in word. He hit it with the hard R, the hard R e R. There you go. So when you see this this video, if you're black, it hits how it hits. You know, it's it's that that video is not gonna be the first time you hear that word in your life. If your parents did right by you to prepare you for it, so you have the mental fortitude to endure those sorts of situations.
But if you're not a black person hearing someone wheeled that word so freely, you know, maybe maybe you're used to it, maybe happens in your family, or maybe you're appalled and you didn't realize that someone would just walk up to a black person and just say that to them. But that's what happened. And the gentlemen that were getting the content for their channel, for the most part, kept
their composure. It didn't get physical or anything like that, but they obviously had to exchange some words, told the old guy to walk away, and then they went and filmed the River Outpost store or something like that, and leading us to believe that that that guy worked at the River Outpost or River Store whatever.
And to be clear, he gave them the impression that that's that's where he worked, that was his place of business.
Sure, so I do want to say to everyone listening that if you watch the video, the River place is not where this guy works. But they do still need to really check their position on that Blue Shirts matter flag they have hanging up in the window. But he it turned out that he worked at Sotheby's.
Yeah, okay, worked past tense, past tense worked.
So before we get into that, I want to ask you Q when you first saw that, what went through your head?
Initial confusion? The perpetrator, the the gentleman who's no longer employed is an Asian man in a Erica and the measuring of plights, the comparison of wrongdoings is needless. But there are several groups of people historically that have been treated bad by this country, and for another minority to adopt that position is always confusing. I don't know if it comes from hate or misinformation or ignorance or a combination of the three, but it always catches me off guard.
And I think that's what gave That's what helped that young man not respond in a far worse way, because you kind of have to laugh to yourself, like, man, so another brainwashed.
One, huh right.
Like I understand the position of the oppressor, like they're the oppressor. They benefit largely from this, But from someone who's also been under the thumb to think this way. They got you, you brain you brainwashed. I forgive you. I should punch you in your face, but I forgive you.
Isn't that crazy that he didn't Actually.
The fact that he didn't even really raise his voice excuse me in response impressed me. Yeah, because I don't know that I could have maintained the calm in that way, and if I did, putting myself in that position, it would have to be from that. It's not your fault, you know, to forgive them for they know not what they do. Kind of thing like, oh man, they got you too.
Huh. Poor guy.
More feeling sorry from him for him than enraged by him.
So there's something that a lot of folks, thankfully will never fully be able to appreciate, and that black folks have a special appreciation of. Appreciation is not the best word in this case, but we're going to roll with it. And that is the weight of the N word. When it's on the lips of someone who is not black and you are black, that is something that you can there's almost like a tactile component there. You can feel that in a way that almost translates to like physical pain.
It's well, it's definitely weaponized right absolutely now.
Now those things need to be in place, because we'll say, for instance, if Q were to say something like that to me, and you understand, you know, that's between the two of us, given the right intonations and the right relationship, or you know, a lot of times you don't even need a relationship. It just sounds familiar and familial. But you know, change one little bit about it and it becomes you know, it is something that again just kind of elicits a response that is very difficult to put
into words. And I understand that a lot of folks who are not black have a difficult time understanding why a word could matter so much, And I want to take a moment to talk about that and to get your thoughts on it as well, Q. But for myself, what I want to say is if I knew nothing else and I was raised in an environment where that word didn't exist, and then all of a sudden I heard it, it wouldn't matter to me at all. The word itself does not have magic powers. It's not a
call to black folks, you know, it doesn't. It doesn't cause melanin to you know, respond at the frequently you know, nothing like that. But I think that at least for me, understanding that people human beings who wore this beautiful color that God or the universe or whatever it is you choose to believe in, chose to paint me. To know that that was the last word that many of them heard during their lifetime, as they were ripped apart by horses, as they were set on fire, and on and on.
I'm not going to get into that. That's heavy, but to know that, to know that I am the product, I'm the result of a proud group of people where that word was deliberately wielded over them to keep them oppressed too. And in a lot of ways, the people wielding that word really took it as truth that these were in fact ignorant people. And I don't know if you're listening to my voice right now or not, but
you can tell that I'm not an ignorant person. You might not be able to tell that I'm black as Vans, a black Midnight, a Spades black. You know, that's how we do over here. But I will say that it's very important to know that, at least for me in my home, that is not a word that we use ingest or in a familiar capacity or not. That's not a word that my son's here, because I don't see in words. When I look at my children, I see kings.
But I also recognize that it's up to them and everyone who gets to wear this pretty color that God chose to paint me, to decide how they want their story to be written and how they want that word to be chronicled in their lives. And so while I can't dedicate a whole show to just one word, I do want to take that moment to explain to folks who might not get the gravity of it, at least a little bit of that gravity in my life. What do you think?
I think there is too much nuance to it for us to cover it all.
Sure there are. There are.
Other examples of words that were made to harm, meant to hurt, meant to insult, being co opted by the person who was supposed to be insulted by it, Like the way that women use the B word to and with each other as almost a term of endearment now, whereas in once upon a time you couldn't levy a heavier insult than that. Again, the way that it's said and who says it matters.
Absolutely, So I won't.
I won't take up too much of our time because there is so much nuance. We would almost have to we would almost have to have an entire show about that, which I don't want to do. I don't know, man, My family is from the South. My mother's from Making, Georgia, Bibb County, Georgia, the South South, and you and I we did a show about our experiences in Mississippi. Imagine that tone, that accent, and that voice wielding that word towards us, and how much different it would feel than
when a rapper says it in a song. A lot of people like to point to, well, why do they say it? And how come they say it? And they shouldn't say it, and those opinions vary, and you know, everyone's allowed to have their opinion. Like I said, there's far too much nuance, and I don't have the time to really dig into it the way that I should.
But the word has, in a familiar form, been co opted by those who were supposed to be insulted by it and flipped to a term of endearment in the way that you know your favorite female rapper will call herself a bad B word as a big up or a compliment to herself when you know the word was intended to be an insult. And how people feel when they hear it varies from person to person, So you know, it's a conversation to be had, but.
That's a big one.
There is a very very tangible feeling. Oh yeah, hearing that word used the way that man used it, even when he's not talking to you, because he is, Yeah, because he is talking to you.
I saw you paint with broad strokes, you know what I mean. So well, to continue with the story, you know us, you know, we have a little bit of a community here in Phoenix, black folks and allies, as most cities do. And so we got to we got to hold the video and we got to share in that video, and then you know, some of the bigger platforms Sean King, TMZ on and on and on, everyone
started sharing that video. And personally, I happen to know some folks that work for the Arizona Board of Realtors or some something like some important real realtor association here in Arizona. But I have a friend that works very closely with him, and so I found out early on when the River Trading Post said that you know, he didn't work there, that he actually worked for Sothebys, which is a luxury real estate agency.
If you've been to Arizona, Scottsdale, Phoenix, if you ride from Phoenix east on Camelback, almost every sign you see for every nice home that you see will be this particular company.
So they immediately denounced that behavior and put up a bunch of multicultural photos of their employees, and they fired him immediately, and then came back with the second post saying that they recommended that his real estate license be revoked. So I was not the only person looking to ensure that his license was revoked. I got back word a little early that it was revoked, and then I heard
that he had been arrested for disorderly conduct. And so for those of us who believe that we are all brothers and sisters on this planet, in this country, in this city, or in your city, wherever you are listening to this, you know, we'll call that a win. You know, I do believe that there should be forgiveness built into every conversation. A lot of folks disagree with me there, but I think in this story. I'll call it a win because this man didn't lose his life and he
got a chance to learn a lesson. And what's more important is that people who maybe feel the way that he feels, understand now perhaps a little further than they did in the past, that maybe there are some consequences if you get caught doing the wrong thing.
The very interesting thing that you unintentionally left out is that him approaching them, on its face, is not a crime. Him approaching them, him being a racist, him just approaching them because they're black, him expressing that he thinks there might be a problem, of course, because they're black. All of that's fine. It's the use of that word that
made it criminal. Yeah, that's important to point out, especially because there are places you can't do that where they're still trying to make hate crimes actual crimes.
It's not illegal to do a hate crime, or it's not classified as I hate.
Correct, So you know, maybe the classification might need some specification. But the use of that word is what made his actions criminal, not just him being a jerk.
Indeed, so again, happy ending there, and well as as happy an ending as you can expect given the circumstances. You know, everyone walked away. Everything's good lesson learned hopefully by not just the man who lost his job, but by again folks who were would observe that sort of thing. And you know, like the other companies around there, they recognize, Hey,
you know what, these guys are better allies. These guys meaning black folks and black allies, are better allies to us and our our interest as a business than you know, enemies. And maybe they might rethink their blue shirts matter stance and et cetera.
But I'm gonna have that conversation one day too.
Oh yeah, no, it'll come. It'll come. We got an election coming up still, so see where the chips lie.
Looking forward to that. That's next week, by the way.
Yeah yeah, but oh it's this coming week, isn't it. Yeah, well yeah, this week? So anyway, ice Cube, Yeah, yeah, let's talk about it. If you are like me, you grew up listening to ice Cube, and ice Cube was the coolest and he was mister f the police and.
How about that?
Yeah?
From there to here?
Sure, wow, and on and on and you know, then he made his family movies and so forth, and you know, he pops up every so often. But you know, he remember he did that. He had a time where he was like doing the Warp tour and he was like on stage with all the rock and roll guys and he was trying to play in that field a little bit. But you know, he's he's big enough, and he's from California, and I'm from I was born in California. I call myself from Phoenix, but I was born in California, and
so he was always very much a hero in my book. Well, that very same ice Cube put together some sort of resolution forgive me not this unprepared but I forget the name of.
It, contract with Black America.
That's why I keep you around, because you know stuff. Anyway, So ice Cube has this contract with Black America and he's working with the Trump administration, and that's on its face, sounds ridiculous because ice Cube is one of the heroes that would really speak, you know. Ice Cube is Muslim, you know, and and Muslims are one of the first groups that Donald Trump insulted, you know, and ice Cube is one of the.
First groups he insulted as president. He started insulting black people. Oh yeah, long time, I think it was.
He came out the wound and that was probably a long time right after he started crawling anyway. You know, So a long story short, ice Cube is the one person that you don't imagine would end up working with Donald.
Trump, especially because he said it, yeah he self, he he self said it now that he would never.
Now, well, let me hear your thoughts on this first. So here's problem, real quick, real quick, real quick. If you're just tuning in, this is Civic Cipher. I'm ramses Jah.
My name is Quentin, but they call me q Ward.
And right now we're going to talk about ice Cube working with the Trump administration. Okay, your thoughts.
The idea that black people are a singular monolith community is on its face, hilarious to me. Sure we do not all think, feel, or act the same. So ice Cube without even having a meeting with those who would present themselves as more informed, the president of the NAACP, for instance, or someone the former president Barack Obama, someone who at least by profession, spends their time in this field, working at least and in part for the Black community.
Because as a singular I just really think that's short sighted.
But if you're going to speak for all of us, how about you sit down with some of us first, right, and then if you're going to present these things as in exchange, we're going to sit at the negotiating table, and I'm going to push forth these things that I want, maybe make sure that the people that you're tearing down haven't already presented those same things, right, Because there's things in this contract with Black America that he's presenting to
Donald Trump that Kamala Harris and Joe Biden have already spoken to. So then you seem incredibly uninformed, incredibly unprepared to present yourself as the leader of said cause when just simply clicking on Google a cuple It's a couple of times could have made you better prepared. Sure, So there's that first, right, if your ice cube, if you're Ramsy's Jay, if you're a q ward, if you're going to speak for all of us, first talk to some of us and then educate yourself so that the stance
that you're taking isn't completely off base. Secondly, are we still trying to convince ourselves that this gentleman cares about anyone other than himself and by this gentleman, I mean our president, Like, are you are we sincerely still trying to convince ourselves that there's a slither of decency and that we could actually sit and have a conversation with him that would yield some type of progressive outcome for anyone other than him and people that think like him,
and people that are very very well off like him. Because I think once upon a time people thought that, right, there were several black celebrities scene in his presence, and people thought, well, maybe those people are just trying to get a seat at the table and trying to express themselves and something's going to come of it. We have yet to learn that for him, it's just a photo op. You just give him someone else to point to as an ally, to say, hey, look how racist. I'm not
look at my black friend over here. What's your name, black friend?
I can't my African American, my African American.
At some point we have to, I mean, we've been so conditioned to forgive and to turn the other cheek and to look and hope for the best outcomes, And in that way, I think we might be singular as a community. Right. The fact that hundreds of years have passed and there's been no Black uprising in the way that we just out here seeking revenge. Because even the Black Panther Party wasn't hitting the streets looking for revenge.
We were just demanding equality. We were demanding your minimums, the things that you just automatically assume you're gonna get. We have to arm ourselves and demand them.
But that's it.
Even when taking arms and organizing as a militant group, we still didn't hit the streets for payback. Even now, we don't spend a lot of time talking about reparations, mostly because I think we just think it's impossible and it's never gonna happen. But secondly because we're not even trying to. We don't want you to pay us back. Just let us live.
That's all.
Lives matter.
That's it.
You can stop there as a period after that. Not black lives are better, not black lives are more important.
Certainly not blue shirts, you know what I mean. We just want to matter.
The fact that people even argue the merits of that as an organization or a statement, how on earth is that a controversial thing to say?
Crazy?
So we're not supposed to be heard or feel betrayed when someone like ice Cube, who we've revered and looked up to our whole lives. Makes this kind of decision because he's just a celebrity, and why are we so invested in them? But let's be honest, we are so invested in them. Watching ice Cube succeed and thrive is something that we all take personal. That's why we went to see Friday.
We wanted to see his baby in the NWA, and.
That's why we went to see straight out of compety and shouts to his son. Man, he's brilliant, He's incredible. So yeah, I mean, all of these things hurt me ice CEI and other people that I know personally having a stance.
So Little pump.
I said that I just almost unplugged my mic.
So listen, listen, I'm being funny. I'm being funny. Well, in the case of fifty cent and Little Pump, what they said, while extremely nearsighted, short sighted, selfish, hurtful, was based on the fact that they make so much more than four hundred thousand dollars in a year that it was a fiscal position or posture on their part.
Yeah, a lot of people voted for this current guy for fiscal financial reasons, right.
And my understanding is that his his opposition, Joe Biden, will tax only the four hundred thousand and first dollar and above heavily. So if anybody makes less than that, or your first four hundred grand, that's that's kind of taxed at the normal rate or the standing rate. And I don't know anything about that stuff, but that that
explains fifty cent a little pump. I do want to talk about ice Cube though, so I I'm not playing Devil's advocate advocate here, but I do want to kind of paint a little bit of the other side of the picture because I saw him explain what he was trying to do. So, uh, ice Cube said that his plan what's the name of.
It again, contract with Black America?
Very good, awesome. So the contract with Black America, I'm so glad. You know so much more stuff than me. It's not true. So ice cubes contract with Black America, he says, is something that he would have worked or discussed rather with the Biden campaign as well as the Trump administration, as well as anyone willing to sit down and have that conversation with him. And he says that the Biden administration says, yes, we do want to have that conversation with you. We want to review it, we
want to go overton et cetera. But let's do it after the election, whereas the Trump campaign had less in the way of a contract with Black of America, and you know, it was convenient. This is me putting it together. He didn't say this, let me finish. He I'm putting it together. Donald Trump had to go to Georgia. And my understanding is Georgia sometimes could go this way, sometimes could go that way in terms of how they vote. Not not really, not really, So it's always read Georgia
and Florida. You don't you don't typically have to wonder which way they're going. Okay, well, and I'm sure that's not you know, it's not one hundred percent outcomes. But well, in any event, Donald Trump was going to go to Georgia, and I think that's where he first unveiled his I don't know, five hundred billion dollar plan to help out Black America, which my understanding is somehow based at least in part on his conversations that he had with ice Cube.
So the way it looks to me, based on all of these things that are largely unrelated, as I string them together. Is ice Cube sat down with Donald Trump only because he could not sit down with the Biden administration because they wouldn't grant him an audience until after the election. Ice Cube was able to get off some
of his ideas. Trump used them in the same way that he used of the photo ops and so forth to kind of bolst or his his speech going into Atlanta, where there's a huge black population, to effectively try to convert some folks who black folks who might have been on the fence by speaking to black issues with a dollar sign attached to his message. And so I see
Donald Trump using ice Cube. I see ice Cube certainly a kind of falling for the okie dope, the same one that Kanye and you know, you've seen that picture of all the people praying for Donald Trump in the Oval office and all this, all these sorts of things where it's just you know, this dude. In any event, I don't want to get too deep into it anyway, So I see ice Cube sort of falling in that
same cycle. But after watching him say his piece, I do kind of feel like he was well intentioned, and I do feel like ice Cube was because you got to think it takes time to put together, you know, a plan like that takes time and then to work on, you know whatever. And then worst case scenario if now I'm not defending ice Cube at all, you know me, and everybody listening knows me. I'm not trying to sit
down with nobody even remotely close to that man. But worst case scenario, if Donald Trump wins this election or otherwise refuses to you know whatever, ice Cube has put some paperwork in front of him that he can refer to. If you know, the streets get get rowdy after this election, you know, he can start you know what I mean, there's a framework there. Because Donald Trump has not lived a black life, has no idea what issues affect black folks. He what does he say? What have you got to lose?
What does he say? I'm the best president? What is he? You know, I'm so nearsighted. Listen.
This is the problem. Once Donald Trump wins, right, if that's the outcome, he doesn't need black support anymore, so he has no incentive to see anything through that he told ice Cube that he might or might not do with regard to black people. It's not happening, right, you guys, act like he wasn't just the president. He's not the president right now, he's running ads about this America that Joe Biden's going to have us living in, using footage
of the America that he has us living in. Like, at some point, we can't be simpletons, ice Cube, you're too intelligent to believe that this man is going to honor anything that doesn't serve him, pretending that he cares to get reelected. Sure, but he's not gonna win. And they say, Okay, I'm the second term president. Now let's build. Now, Now let's get these black folks together. Now, let's help these black people.
Let's get them kids out of them cages.
You know, now he's not gonna he's not gonna not need our support at all anymore, and then do all this good stuff. He knew he was going to run again, so he could have spent his entire Listen. I don't like dude at all, period, And I know that it's not As an intelligent person, you shouldn't have a stance that you can't be moved off of with better information. The trouble is, I'm certain that there's not going to
be any better information. He's not going to change. He's not going to improve, He's not going to do anything any different. Right, So Ice cubes too intelligent of a person to feel like he was going to bring something to this president who he could have auditioned for us this whole four years. I'm with you, right, Biden is not the incumbent, so he has to say, hey man,
I'm trying to win this. It's like if I was a DJ trying to get Rams just to hire me, but Ramses is still trying to get a liquor license in permits from a city to have a club. Hey look, bro, I would love to hire you. I just don't have no club yet. So soon as I get a club, let's sit down, let's get it cracking.
And then there's this.
Other guy who has a club, who's made it clear I'm never hiring nobody black sir ever. Matter of fact, let me do all I can to not just not hire you, but to make life harder for you. Me saying okay, since Rams's gotta wait until he get his club, let me go over here and not just sit down with this guy, but put myself in a position where this guy can put his arms around me and use me as a prop to further his own cause you're smarter than that. And forgive me if I get ried
up by it. But I know too many intelligent people that are allowing misinformation and shortsightedness and selfishness to cause them to see this thing as non binary.
Don't vote for Kanye. How about that? The world is round?
How about that.
If your ancestors come from Africa. Anyway, I want to talk about moving on, and thank you everyone who listens every week to Civic sidher Uh. It really does matter to us. If you're just tuning in. I'my host Rams's joh they called me q Ward and we now are going to discuss Walter Wallace Junior, as of today, the latest name in the endless list of names of melanated folks who have lost their lives at the hands of
excitable police, terrified fearful police. These guys are supposed to be brave, right heroes even sure anyway, So I don't know all the details, and I understand what that's like when you have a platform like this and you're able to reach lots of people and you don't have all the details. But most of us don't have all the details because there's an investigation going on. But what we do know is what we saw from the video and what was told from the folks who were on the scene.
And so if you're not familiar with Walter Wallace Jr. This is one video I'm going to tell you to watch, but use your discretion because you're going to see a human being executed in the street. That's not the sort of thing that I am comfortable watching anymore. But the circumstances surrounding the video are as follows, at least to the best of my knowledge, Walter Wallace Junior was He suffered from a mental illness and a mental condition.
It's really really creepy to hear you speak about him in the past tense.
Yeah, I never got to talk about him when he was alive. Man's that's the way it goes over here. So his mom, I want to say, calls the police to get the police to show up, help her out, you know, whatever the case is. And he has a knife. Now, I don't know if I know someone who has a history with cutting himself a very close friend of mine.
In fact, I know a couple of folks, but certainly this one person is very close friend of mine and sometimes we'll have a blade nearby and it makes me very nervous because in the past he suffered from that.
But that's that doesn't matter. So this guy has a blade and the police show up on a mental health or mental breakdown one call, and then the video picks up and what you see as a woman I presume to be his mother, screaming and running around in the streets, and you see the circling a car, and then you see Walter Wallace Junior circling the same car on the
opposite side, and he's holding a knife. I couldn't really make out a knife clearly in the video, but you hear them talking about, you know, him having a knife and drop the knife and that sort of thing. And he walks out from in between the car, and now the cops are standing in the street, and he starts walking toward the police officers. And what I saw in the video, he's not running at them. He's not he doesn't have the knife in a position where he's going
to cause harm. It's just kind of in his hand and he's walking toward them. The police are a good ten twelve feet away from him, so there are no imminent danger. And then you hear I think it was as high as thirteen shots rang out and then his body falls into the street. So some of the early questions, uh that were asked, were was that necessary? Did they
try tasers? You know, non lethal means, you know, where this human being could still be alive and not executed in front of his mother who called the police to help, not to end his life. And so we'll leave that there, and I want to get your thoughts. I'll add my own.
There's a reason why they murder us. We're less of a liability dead, And I want you to digest that. We're more of a liability if they just tase us, they shoot us from rubber bullets, if they beat us up, Because then we can talk. We can tell our story. We can give context, we can give nuance, we can give evidence towards their wrongdoings. We can add color to a picture that they would rather be black and white. He was bad, we were scared, he posed harm to us.
In defense of ourselves, we killed him. Now who I am doesn't matter. I don't get to tell my story. I don't get to say what actually happened that day, and our lives in case you're wondering why we say it every day now don't matter to them because even when they murder us on camera, they get paid leave. In that worst reassignment.
I think that's what happened when the officers that shot him there on leave until the first part of the year paid.
And our country, our states, and our cities have made legal deals with their unions to make all of this stuff. So, so.
A lot of folks on the opposite side of this conversation say what they normally say, if you had just complied, he'd still be around, and they would say, well, you have to listen to the police, because if the police feel threatened, they have a right to defend themselves. They're doing their job and they shouldn't be exposed to the prospect or the potential for death. And that's why they have weapons, so that they can defend themselves and defend the defenseless. And so I want to speak to those
folks who have that mindset. If you have a well, you know what, let's start here. If you just change the colors, then everything falls into place a lot more easily. So Walter Wallace Junior was a white you know, teenager having a mental breakdown. Police showed up on a mental breakdown call, and he has a knife, he's ten feet away from you. In my mind, I don't see the
police ending that person's life. If someone's coming at you with a knife and you have a gun, and you are there to preserve and protect life, and you are really the hero, as you put it earlier, and you are really brave, and so for you can take a few steps back, you can shout some more commands. There's an a human life is so precious, irreplaceable, and it's
so easily snuffed out. And you don't only have a gun, especially when they're black, And that that too, that part, because you know there's you know that there's police that will spend hours negotiating hostage situations, hours talking people off ledges, hours and hours and hours. But be black and have a mental breakdown, want to kill yourself? Maybe you know, we'll never know. As you said, he's not around to tell his story. Why was he walking around with a knight.
I don't think that any sane person gets a knife and walks to police with guns drawn on him with the intention of winning a fight.
And then the problem tends to be with us. The counter argument is that we've seen the same video footage of white men assault rifles with guns, attacking cops, running, lunging, jumping toward and on cops and not being killed, So we know that they're capable.
Oh yeah, they're just so scared. And this is why it's really hard for folks like me to really look at police like their heroes. I do respect the fact that they have a job to do.
That you have to apply for that job, and you have to test for that job. Sure, and you have to interview for that job. I'm telling you as someone who's done all of the above. You have to show an aptitude. You have to convince a board of police officers that you're capable of doing the job. You have to pass a background check. There's a lot of steps. So they're not being drafted into this position and then
just having to figure it out. So when we hear about how hard their job is, sure, but they signed up for it. Some of them are paid handsomely to do it. And if the job itself presents too much stress, you shouldn't do the job. There's no police draft. Not only do you have to go after the job but it's not an easy job to get relatively to you know, the manager at Target. It's an easy job to get relative to police. Police forces in other countries and other
developed countries. The minimums you have to meet to get those jobs far exceed ours. But you have to go through some steps to get that job. And if you voluntarily go through all you have to do, then don't come and tell us you're killing us because the job is too much.
You're stressed out.
Yeah, go do something else, sir, Because when I'm afraid, you're the person that I'm going to call. And as much as we as much as we march, and as much as when something happens, we all still dial nine to one to one.
All of us, even the police.
So I shouldn't have to worry about calling you for help and then never seeing my family again, which is in essence what happens here. His mother called for help. She didn't call and say, hey, come get this guy off of me. And even if she did, then just come get this guy off of her. Don't come murder her son, even if he's a bad guy. Don't come murder her son.
Yeah, you're a police officer, not an executioner. Yeah. Well, let me paint a little bit more of this picture, though, because again there's folks that will say, and well intentioned they as they may be, that you know, if you just do what the police say, everything will work out.
Whish that was true.
First off, that is a truth that holds up in more often in instances where the person interacting with police is less mellenated. Perhaps the less mellenated, the more likely that is to be true. But there is something to be said about we'll take a special type of person in this instance. We'll take a white woman for this example, and let's call her twenty six years old, right, an American citizen, the same as anyone else, capable of anything
that anyone else is doing. You know, women can do everything men can do, and you know, there's nothing crazy here. Just in this example, there's a twenty six year old woman. If she feels like the police are treating her unfairly, and she throws a fit about it, she throws literally throws food at an officer, tries to hit or you know, cry, screams, you know whatever. People look at that and they say,
ha ha ha, that's funny. Of course she's going to get arrested, you know, whatever, and that's the end of it. No one says, well, you know, she should have done what the officer said, you know, you know, because there are some instances where people are able to protest and unjust arrest, even if it's only unjust in their mind right, and the.
Police are actually as what an unjust arrest?
Sure, you know, the police are not all saints. We know that.
Oh no, I know that on paper there is and I'm wondering if if there's actually ever if they actually ever see it that way. Oh yeah, yeah, no, no, I know what you're saying. Well, you know, like when the police are their own witnesses.
So watch this. Imagine you know, you and I we got pulled over in Mississippi. If we had said everything to those officers that we said in the episode of Civic Cipher that we did, that would be asmine. That would be crazy. That would be like us shooting ourselves in our own foot because we're black. If we're a twenty six year old white woman, we could say it all,
you know, and it'll be fine. But I think that there's this idea that exists in a lot of folks mind when it comes to black folks getting mistreated by the police, where if you just do what the police say,
then you'll be okay. And what I'm saying is that if a twenty six year old white woman is able to stand up for herself, to stand up for her own dignity, her self worth, whatever the case is, and say no, you're wrong, what you're doing is wrong, et cetera, et cetera, even if she's wrong, if she's able to stand up and do it, then if a black person does the same thing, that's all that's like pretty close to a DEAs sense in most cases, you know, if
not an outright descence, you know, you're supposed to do what these people say or die. And I think that considering the optics and considering those dynamics helps you to understand that people's natural impulse is to stand up, uh to to demand dignity. If you're hurting someone, their body's natural tendency is to react to the pain. You're twisting my arm. So if I'm twisting to get away from you, because it's it's an involuntary action that my body's taking,
my nervous system is responding to this pain. But the officer will then say oftentimes, if you're black, you're resisting, thank you. And if you're resisting, then that's a charge. And if somehow you have a little bit more strength than the officer, or the officer is a little bit too scared, don't change to dare and you're it's a
it's a it's a a nervous system response. You know, if the officer gets hurt or anything like that, then now you've assaulted an officer, et cetera, on and on and on, and at any point the officer feels afraid. Like we saw in Georgia where the guy was sleeping in the in the driveway at the I forget his name, but he was sleeping in the driveway at the Windys I want to say, yeah, and he was drinking. He
pulled over. He was drunk. Rather, he pulled over his car, went to sleep in the in the driveway or in the drive through or the parking lot, whatever it was. Police showed up and he was talking to the police and he was fine. The police soon as they say, they're going to arrest him. This guy's drunk. He's out of his mind, drunk, right, he's having a conversation. But he's not thinking with all of his faculties, and he turns around and tries to run away. Now, this guy's
not fast at all. At no point is it even scary. And the police shoot him in the back.
And they're so afraid of him running away from them.
And if you just look, if you took a day out of your life, if you are of this persuasion, if you took a day out of your life and looked into how many times police shoot black people in the back and they lose their life, I'm sure that it will help you reframe that conversation around something that's a bit more factual. But with that said, we are now at the end of another episode of Civic Cipher.
So once again, i'm Ramsey's Jaw and I am Qward and if you want to keep up with us during the week, you can do so at Rams's Jaw and I am Qward or follow the show at Civic Cipher on all social media, and of course you can submit questions, topics and donate at civiccipher dot com. All your donations are appreciated. We'll be back next week, same time, same channel. Until then, Peace