Welcome to another episode of Civic Cipher. I'm your host, Ramsay's Ja big shout out to q Ward who is off today, but have no fear because we have a very special guest in with us. Today's show is going to be about race relations really between black and Asian communities in this country.
There's a lot there.
There's been a lot in recent months that we've had to talk about in today's episode, We're going to be continuing that dialogue as we committed to doing. My guest
today is Liza's son. Welcome to the show. A little bit about Lisa is she's a former State House of Representatives candidate for Legislative Legislative District number nineteen, a former vice chair of the azaap I Caucus, and you know, just an all around community the activist and politician and from what I know of you, someone who has a lot of insight into the history between our two communities.
As we relate to each other, but also.
You know, maybe a path forward, a path toward you know, having a more profound and meaningful relationship that will you know, result in more positive interactions and less negative interactions between our two communities. And so I'm grateful that you would take the time to come on the show and you know, share your thoughts and your opinions, you know, and you know, in a little bit we'll we'll certainly peel back some of the layers and check out what's going on there.
So before we get to that, though, it's standard practice around this time to do a little bit of celebrating of what we'd like to call Ebony excellence. All I do is win no matter what. For Ebony excellence, what we do is we highlight something positive in the black community. This week, it was one that I believe to be very special. Q actually sent this over in Shreveport, Louisiana. There's a man named Michael Lafitte and he started a
program called Dads on Duty. After twenty three students were arrested in three days, parents in Shreveport, Louisiana took it upon themselves to organize and patrol the halls of the schools in shifts. And what they do is they greet students, they helped maintain a positive environment, and so far it's been working. They're looking to actually expand the program into
other schools, cities, and states. And the interesting thing about this is that none of these dads have backgrounds as counselors or as you know, in law enforcement anything like that, fathers. And that's exactly what Michael Lafitz says. He says, we're dads. We decided the best people who can take care of our kids are who are us and quote, and you know, they just fill the halls with you know, dad jokes and a little tough love and some stern looks and
you know, so far there's been no fights. Again, when you see the drastic turnaround, twenty three students arrested across three days because of fighting. And then these dads show up end mass and hang out in the hallways and crack jokes and just really are a presence. They all wear the same T shirts and they interact with the students. You know, some of the students. I've seen some of the videos on this, some of the students seem to be really grateful and they feel protected in a strange way,
even though these men aren't their biological fathers. They're just some dads that decided to show up. But I think that that's Ebny excellence if I ever heard of it. I'm glad that we got a chance to share that story about the dads on duty. Now moving along back to our guest Lisa's son. So twenty twenty was a difficult year for everyone, and everyone has their story about that year. Twenty twenty one, of course, has been very much a continuation of a lot of the stories that
we begin to hear about in twenty twenty. But there is a unique characteristic that I believe relates to Asian Americans specifically. And you know, discrimination against Asian Americans goes all the way back to perhaps the first Asian Americans
that ever landed on this you know, continent. But last year, I believe there was a marked change in tone with respect to our Asian brothers and sisters when Donald Trump said all the things that he said about the China virus and the I don't even want to repeat all the hurtful and racist things that he said, And I believe that that gave license to people his supporter specifically, to terrorize and make fun of, brutalize, et cetera Asian Americans.
Add to that that, in certain communities there has been a longstanding, deep divide between Asian Americans and those communities, namely black communities, now you can correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the reason that we see lots of Asian Americans opening up businesses in lower income neighborhoods, black and brown neighborhoods, is not because Asian folks want to take advantage of the poor people in this country.
It's a result of folks immigrating here and qualifying for loans that black people and brown people in this country have been systemically discriminated against in terms of receiving those loans. And then for the Asian folks that they show up, they are enterprising people. They show up, they have to create an economic system to support themselves, and where they can qualify for loans and where they can set up shop, if you will, is those communities, those black and brown communities.
And so it ends up being this dynamic that looks based on only the optics if you don't know the mechanism behind it, like perhaps these folks are coming here
to take advantage of it us. And then there's a component where there's a lot of significant cultural differences in Asian and you know, I'm gonna try to be a little bit more specific, but Chinese, Japanese Chinese mostly, and I'm from Los Angeles and this is those are the tots of people I would interact with Chinese and Korean folks when I was growing up.
Everybody.
There's all types of Asian folks in California, but those are the folks I remember a lot of cultural differences. You know, the way that folks relate to each other is very different than the way you know, Black folks relate to each other, and you know, to other people, and a lot of times it can come across dismissive, it can come across you know, whatever, and it's just cultural.
You know, there's there's people who grow up in very loving households, you know, Asian mother, Asian father, and you know, the way that love is shown, in the way that the legacy is written in.
Those cultures is very different.
And I think that those long standing issues and the failure to connect in a meaningful way over many years. And then of course there was I forget the little girl's name, but there was a significant incident in Los Angeles where a store owner, an Asian woman, shot a little black girl and she actually died over that.
And this was in the early nineties.
Yes, and that definitely echoes even within the AAPI community as shocking. Yeah, yeah, you know, heartbreaking to hear someone within our community could go that far right and retaliation.
Right, right.
And so when you think of, you know, how these these two communities, black and Asian communities and people relate to each other, you start to recognize that there has been a divide that has perhaps deepened since twenty twenty. Now, I want to maintain that the vast number of the attacks on Asian folks over the past two years have not been by black people exactly, but there's enough to tell a story if you want. The media can tell a story, and then you know, we're caught in this
weird cycle. But the point is there should be none is contrived, absolutely, and I want to say this again, The point is there should be none. We're brothers and we're sisters, and we share this planet, we share this country, and despite us having significant cultural differences, we do have more that we can relate on than we differ on. We all love our families, We all you know, love to laugh, and so forth, and so on, very rich
histories and et cetera. With all that said, today, I wanted to make sure that we painted a picture for our listeners so that folks who maybe are not Black and maybe are not Asian, who are listening to you and I speak right now, can perhaps understand how things like white supremacy can affect people who are not white, and it can empower people who are not white to
continue to propagate it, proliferate. That's the word I'm looking for, thank you, And you know it's it's a very ugly monster that runs on its own turns on its own access, and you know that's what we're here to talk about. So that brings me to my first question, which is how do you feel about the relations between Black and Asian communities in general?
The word community is so broad. It can be a neighborhood, it could be a small town, it can be a school, it can even be the place where you work can be called a community. And my struggle being an AAPI member of our society interacting with the black community has overall been very positive. I think that it's up to the individual's perspective, based on their anecdotal experiences, to make an assessment on the health of the relationship between the
AAPI and the Black communities. I mean, we can go and discuss our personal experiences. But for me, I grew up in a very all inclusive town called in Urbur, Michigan, in the eighties and in the nineties, and the community that I belonged to was very diverse. I had a neighbor that had young children that called on me to be their babysitter, and the father was a black surgeon, and the mother was a white stay at home mom,
and my early exposure to diversity was very healthy. Now that doesn't go without saying that I had a perfect interaction with the black communities, But when I did, I had that personal, positive anecdotal experiences with certain black members of the community. That tells me that when you have a negative experience, it's just that person that shared a
similar physical attribute, particularly the skin color, that's it. But when you don't have enough of that positive anecdotal experiences, you can see how someone can warp that perception and it can lead to discrimination and even racism, and that can be fueled by certain family members or their mentor within their own communities that may share that same negative anecdotal experiences. At times, those experiences it's not fair, it's
not balance because childhood trauma. Average childhood experiences plays a huge factor into how to shape the mind of a youngster within the community, and that can further translate on how well they interact with certain members of our communities, particularly people of color. Again, going back to my own experiences, it's been very positive and the negative. I just look at it as an indivisual, not a broad brush within a given community, because then that will be discrimination.
Absolutely, you know. And there's something that's interesting. So I've been to ann Arbor, but I've spent more time in Detroit, and you know, they're very different culturally, but you know, they're close in terms of their proximity to each other. And right, you know, you can find a lot of black folks that live very black lives, right and you know, there's nothing wrong with that. You know, there's places, there's other places in this country where you can find a
lot of Asian people who live very Asian lives. Chinese, there's China towns everywhere and so forth. But what ends up happening a lot of times in those circumstances is that you have a very limited view of what other people might be like, you know.
To your point, so.
Again, those limited interactions, especially if you're interacting with people who are perhaps not the best, you know, best suited to represent an entire race of people exactly.
I mean you just said it doesn't sound ridiculous.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, it's insane, But I do see how it can happen, and it's.
It's I think.
There's a degree of individual responsibility that needs to come into play. For each of these people who has again an unfounded or or a baseless generalization of any group of people, it's incumbent upon them to try to learn more. But in terms of folks listening to you and me right now who perhaps don't feel that way, the people that our listeners tend to be a little bit more progressive, a little bit more educated, folks that really want to
see a better world for all of us. It's our job to identify in those people, be they black, white, Asian, or whatever, to point out to them, Hey, listen, I think that what you're basing your your generalizations on, it's it's based on a limited, you know, interaction, a limited amount of interaction with these types of people. Now, I want to jump in here. A lot of what a lot of people don't know this about the show. I have an older brother. His name is Raka iras Science
of the Dilated Peoples. That's a hip hop group that is relatively successful, you know, toured around the world and plaques on the walls, this, that, and the other. This is part of the reason why I've been able to be on the radio because my big brother kind of looked out for me, and here I am. Yeah, my big brother is half Korean. Actually two of my big
brothers are half Korean and one of my sisters. So when I was sitting down to create this show, I talked with my older brother, Raka, and I says, Hey, so here's what I'm trying to do. Do you have any advice from me? And he made sure that. He said that I need to share this space in solidarity with people who don't look like me. And don't forget who showed up In twenty twenty, he mentioned something to me. He says, can you name one time when black folks
showed up for Asian folks? And he said, I was asked that question and I couldn't come up with an answer, but I can name a few instances where Asian folks showed up for black people and he said, make sure that black people know that. Now, my brother is black too. His father's black. His father is my father, but his mother is from South Korea.
But a family is my brother.
Yeah. So he wanted to make sure that this wasn't a show where the black listeners, which admittedly they're not. The majority of our listeners are not black. This show is meant to empower non black people. There's plenty of shows to empower black people, but this show is to give some a glimpse, some perspective into what it's like to be black.
This show is a bridge.
There you go, bridge, thank you.
So the rainbow over.
Yeah, I like that.
I like that that works. But yes, he said, make sure that we remember who showed up in twenty twenty. And this was interesting for me because I hadn't thought about it. My personal experience was that I've been to more Asian majority places on this planet than almost everyone.
I'd say maybe ninety nine point ninety nine percent of people.
I've been to China, Japan, Vietnam, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand, We're everywhere. Yeah, that's me Hawaii, you know, I just just got back from Hawaii. Not too long ago, and these weren't just like quick trips to see what's going on. Like I was there on the ground interacting with people. And you know, I've told this story before, but for me, the most significant and prolific way to connect with a people.
I've been to other countries too, you know, but the most significant way to connect with the people is you know, I took a page out of my father's book. My father was a minister, and I found myself in the churches or the places of worship of you know, all these different countries, right And you know, as I mentioned earlier, Asian people are as different as they come, as diverse
as they come. But in all these countries, with all these people, where I didn't speak the language, and I was the only person that looked like me, and I was there by myself, and I had to walk around and try to have a meaningful experience in a place on the other side of the planet where I have
no family, that's very very lonely. I can't talk to anyone, you know, But I could go to church or you know, temple or whatever, and there's a Buddhist temple or you know, whatever it was, you know, and I was welcomed every time.
The only thing they would say is could you take off your shoes?
You know, and they say that to everybody, everybody.
And so for me, for Ramses, I recognize that that was a beautiful experience and you know, a unique experience. Not everyone gets to have that. And so when my brother was talking to me about that request, it didn't strike me as odd, but it did strike it did feel like it was news because I just assumed that everything was okay. And then once he broke it down, I'm like, well, you know, I kind of get it.
And then we're seeing the stop asient. This was it Stop Asian Hate that we're now renaming to Stop Asian Harm.
Thank you.
I appreciate that.
Campaigns shortly thereafter, and really need to show up for our Asian American brothers and sisters. And I says, in my mind, now's the time that we can show up, right, And because my brother asked, when we're black people there for Asian folks, Well, now we can be there and I can start with this program.
So I add on to the hashtag that you just mentioned, stop Asian Hate and the reason why we're switching it up to stop Asian harm is because the word hate has been weaponized by our elective officials or law enforcements, and even in our judicial system to further criminalize people of color, because with privatized prison and mass incarceration, that word is over utilized to imprison small acts of crime that are non violent, majority of them over eighty percent
or non violent, and they usually tag it on the word hate because when you do a hate crime, your sentencing goes up, and we can't support that. We just can't.
And with the stop Asian hashtag Stop Asian Hate, I just think that it's been overly used in the past year with the incidents, especially with the visceral comments from our previous president, and again we don't want to go into details on what he was saying, but it was disgusting enough and it emboldened these certain constituents of his to do, you.
Know, really horrible thing.
Yes, really horrible. And I'm glad that you mentioned that it wasn't all from the black communities. No, that is a misinformation, right.
The thing is, there were enough videos of Asian folks being attacked by black people to paint that picture in the media. But I maintain that the number of black people that attacked Asian people should be zero. It should have been zero, It should have always been zero. And regardless of how Black people have felt about our relationship with Asian Americans, we get nowhere by behaving the way white folks used to behave toward us in the past. We get nowhere by behaving that way toward our asia
and brothers and sisters. And so I needed to make sure that I stated that. Now we do have to take a pause for some commercials, but we're coming back in just a second, So don't go nowhere, and now.
Watch going my mic back.
You're like that journalist journalist time strikes from headquarters behind in the And if you're just tuning into civic cipher, I am your host. Rams's jo Q board is off today, but no worries. We have Lisa's son with us UH and we are discussing race relations between black and Asian American communities. And for those just tuning in, Lisa is a former State House of Representative candidate for Legislative District nineteen, a former vice chair of the AZAA p I Caucus,
and a community activist and politician. And one thing that we didn't get to talk about is your background. It feels a little late in the conversation to be talking about that, but please let everyone know what your background is.
Well, you just mentioned the high lights of it. There's not really much.
Well how about your ethnic background, because you know, the radio folks can't really hear it.
So being a middle aged woman, I, you know, immigrted here to the States when I was seven years old, and before that, I was born off of the islands of South Korea called Chechu, and my parents were also immigrants to South Korea due to the Civil war in
China back in the fifties. So I come from three generations of immigrants, So we know how it feels to be an outcasts in the given society three generations, and at times when it spans that long, there's a sin, the loss of belonging that it's really hard to explain to people that don't share the same experiences, and that
sometimes lead to that desired to fit in. So a lot of the immigrants that comes from the Asian continent in general would come to the United States of America and they will know right away where the the totem pole hierarchy, the hierarchy and that is just something that's undeniable. Although we don't talk about it, but it is there and we know right away who's at the bottom.
Oh yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, And that's a huge you know play in that.
Well, let's let's talk about that.
So what we do on the show is we have a segment it's called Baba become a Better Ally. In short, if you were able to empower the listeners of this program to become a better ally to not only Asian Americans, but you know, to all of us, what is your vision on how we can best be better brothers and sisters.
And it's funny when you say baba because in Chinese Mandarin Chinese, the word baba means father, and you can even see there's so many commonality within our languages, let alone our culture and our shared history.
Sure, so I love that focusing.
On our shared history, which has been whitewashed is not being taught, especially after the reconstruction era, because the South really took over by the elective officials that were still racist and they made sure that our history was not written in the history books. Agent's been around since the colonial time. We know that colonial time has been around just as long as our constitution colonial spans over two hundred years, and Chinese and Philippines were you know, common,
but they weren't a large group. They were probably around about one hundred to a couple of thousand, and because they were discriminated by the white Europeans, they were only legally allowed to marry other minorities such as the blacks, the Native Americans and Mexicans if they're in that area, but they were not allowed to marry the whites, and if they did, they will be lynched or even murdered. So we have common DNA from two four hundred years back.
We share that histories for hundreds and hundreds of years. Unfortunately, when they saw us being united, it bothered the white supremacy because they were afraid that we will consolidate power. So moving forward, when there was more immigration coming forward from the Asian continents, they realized that the numbers getting too high, and the Asian Americans were like the first ethnicity group to have the Exclusion Act, and to this
day we are still the only one. And that puts a dark cloud over the Aapi community that none of us know the history.
So what you're saying is that it's probably a good idea to learn the history.
You know, that's an obvious statement. Sure, the question is if it's not written down, and if it's not published, how can we learn the history?
Well, you know what, I'll jump in here. In preparing for this show today, I learned new things a simple Google search. We live, you know, for everything that wasn't written down, there are people like you still telling stories and the information exists somewhere. It might not be taught in schools, but it exists. And so you know, just like me going and sitting in front of a computer typing, taking fifteen minutes to an hour per week to do some research. You know, folks listening to you and me
have this conversation can do the same. And you know, knowledge is power, and this is the way that we, you know, create a better you know world for each other. And you know that brings me to my next point. I did want to ask you what are some of the things that you feel contributed to the current relationship between black and Asian communities in this country.
I personally believe that that crack that division actually started very strongly after World War Two, because that's when they took the economic structure and used it to divide us. For example, after the Japanese encampment, they gave a lot of the Japanese compensation by allowing them to buy homes and helping them with loans. And that actually further assisted with the rest of the Asian American communities because in some ways the bank were like, oh, they're actually great investors.
Let's open the door for the rest of the Asian Americans. And as that occurred, unfortunately simultaneously the black communities families were denied of these loans.
And back in the.
Forties, to buy a house you only need like about ten to twelve thousand dollars. And then if you look at the pay in the salaries, the average black families could afford it. They could afford a mortgage, they could afford to get the loans from the bank. But the fact that they were denied, and then on top of that they redlined allow of the black communities. They would actually make them rent homes from white folks so that they can provide equity and profit while the black communities
were only allowed to rent. This continued over a span of two to three generations. Now it wasn't until nineteen don't quote me on the year, but I think it was nineteen sixty eight when it was written in law that the black communities can.
Buy homes anywhere.
And when that happened, it was too late because.
And sucked out of the black community exactly.
And what made it worse was that they were buying over the price. They were over And that has been shown because we can retrieve all the sales and the transaction and all the mortgage is being signed that and then if you were to sell it to a white family, they will have a better rate. So the question is that,
But then from then till now, shouldn't things equalize? Well, to this day, I live in West Phoenix and in that area we have loans being denied to black folks at eighty percent, Hispanics seventy percent, Asians forty and what's the benchmark the white folks?
Wow, Okay, that makes me.
So angry. You have no idea?
Well, you know what, so I you know, I spoke about my dad a little earlier where I was born. Actually, there's a place called Lafayette Park in California, in Los Angeles, and you know it was one of those communities, like you said, where you know, my my dad came from some means, right, and during that time, black people could not buy houses anywhere. You know, black you were kind
of restricted to certain places. Is you literally could not it was illegal to do so, to own a house outside of these certain neighborhoods.
By law. I just want to make sure people listening know that this was actually the law. If you were black, you.
Could not own a house above this street or you know that sort of thing. But you know, at the time when my grandfather and grandmother were, you know, putting down some roots in Los Angeles, they wanted to live in a nice neighborhood. And at the time there were black entertainers who were doing well, this is Los Angeles, right, So there's a little Richard, there's you know, all the
there's all these like entertainers and stuff like that. So they buy a house in this this community called Lafayette Park, and you know that's where I you know, I remember we called it the Castle. Was a really nice house and a really nice neighborhood. But the legacy of that neighborhood, now, of course everyone lives there, all different colors of people live there. But the legacy of that neighborhood is it was a black only neighborhood where the rich black folks
could live. And this is where my father, this is my father's home where he came to so neighborhood. Yeah, and then you know, obviously that's a part of my upbringing as well. So it's just interesting to know that, you know, what you're talking about wasn't just behind the scenes thing. It was actually written in law too. In some places in this country.
It's actually still written in our home these what you call it home loaning companies is actually still in their script. It hasn't been removed, It's still there.
Wow. Yeah, Okay, So how about this, just because I want to make sure that I get as much from this conversation as I can, Let's talk a bit about the model minority myth.
First off, explain what that is.
The mall minority myth. Is this myth that we have ascended to the status of the whites Asian American correct, And what we realized, especially in the last the past couple of years, is that we have been stopped at a certain level, you know, the saying, you know, breaking the glass ceiling right for the AAP, I would call it the bamboo ceiling, because we noticed that at the leadership position where you're at the table where decisions are
being made. Sure we're not there, we're just right below it. And you may want it to call it the white collar or you might want to call it the professional doctors, lawyers, you know, attorney, but nothing outside of that in terms of creativity and an artist street. That movement has just recently occurred with a younger generation, but as far as the older generation, either they were immigrants or they were here to you know, promote their children to be that
white collar worker. So now we're seeing that bamboo ceiling and we can't seem to pass it, and we're being held back, and that's the myth.
So I appreciate you saying that. I want to pull something from a Rolling Stone article that I came across.
So long story short, there was.
An Oklahoma State senator who ended up using the term yellow to describe Asian Americans in a in like a chamber meeting or something like that.
And you know there's you know, we call black people black.
You know, brown skin melanated. Yeah, folks whose ancestors are more directly tied to Africa, we call those people black, white people whose ancestry is more directly tied to Europe or you know, Central Asia. You know, we call those people white. And you know, we have these colored color terms that you know, work for many people and there are no negative connotations necessarily associated with them, or maybe
we haven't uncovered them yet. But one thing is, and I'm gonna pull this directly from the article just so that people know. This is not what I'm trying. That's not the point I'm trying to make, But I think it's important for everyone to know the use of the
term yellow has an ugly and racist history. The term yellow peril was used in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries to describe people of Asian descent as a threat to Western values and to justify zenophobic immigration policies that's severely limited Asian immigration to the US. And it goes on to talk about you know, Donald Trump and all a bunch of stuff we don't need to talk about anymore. But that term, that color term, as it relates to
Asian American people is offensive. And this senator didn't know it, or maybe didn't just chose to lean into it. But that's not the point. The point is I came across something about the model minority.
So the way this exchange.
Went, you know, in fact, I'm gonna skip it because we've already described that. We don't need to talk about that part anymore. But I'll just jump in right here. So forgive me if this doesn't have any previous context. But it says, quote because of their because their experience has been totally different than many others that have not
come over. Raiders remarks pushed the quote model minority myth that Asian Americans don't experience negative consequences of racism in the same way as other races, and it goes on to allege that black families were better off and much more intact before the Civil Rights Act of nineteen sixty
four and so forth. And then he says, you know the data, I've seen black families much more intact and much more able to be together in the nineteen sixties than it was even thirty years or forty years later. From that point on, he claimed, perpetuating the myth pushed by some Republicans, the black culture and not racist government policy, is responsible for the racial wealth gap. Now, folks that are not educated folks that don't know what they don't know.
It's very easy. I'm talking about black folks here.
It's easy to look at Asian people who have businesses in your communities, our communities.
I'm black too, by the way, in case you.
Don't know, it's easy to look at the these people and say, well, they are here in our communities and they are not living or investing in our communities in the same way that a black person would be, and completely ignore the McDonald's on the corner, completely ignore you know, the Starbucks and you know whatever else, right, because I think that that's something that black folks are used to seeing, and I think that what exacerbates those circumstances is a
lot of times the cultural differences. But you know, as I mentioned earlier in the show, having been to so many places on this planet where the majority of the population is Asian or Pacific Island or something like that, I've been in a lot of these places, and some of the cultures are just like that, you know. And once it's going to sound very weird, I'm begging you to just just trust me and follow me, please, But once you start to understand it, you begin to see
the beauty in it. I'm not saying anybody is better or worse, or anybody's perfect or not perfect, but you know, everyone is unique, and it's possible to see the beauty in it. There are some cultures where they don't talk as much as we talk in the US.
There are some cultures where.
Honor and values and things like that are just way differently, where exchanges are not as necessary, that pleasantries aren't offered, given and received in the same way. It's just assumed right and it doesn't make them bad. But a lot of times, when we're only used to seeing the world through our lens, and we're only used to seeing our four blocks, and if something different is introduced into our environment, then we take it personal. We think that it's about us.
And then in our households we will tell the same stories. Oh well, you know that store, They do this every time we walk in. And then the children growing up in that household have an idea that when they walk in, what is perhaps just a cultural thing is their belief might be that it's discrimination or these people don't like me, and so I have to posture myself accordingly and not like them, back and so forth. And I think that once we identify that and once and again.
It really.
It's the most frustrating thing, but it's the most simple thing. You know, if you just hang out with people, if you just see how they are with each other or with other people, then you don't learn to take things so personal. You learn to understand that this is just what it is, and even if you don't like it, you don't have to hate it.
Yeah. I mean, just to elaborate on what you just said, is that I usually tell people in general that we shouldn't really stress about how other people feel or react to, you know, adversity. I always believe that you are responsible for your own behavior. Sure, and I'm not going to sit here and to say that, you know, being an AAPI person, you know, we are this and that and we're perfect or we're better, or whatever the case may be. I have issues within my own community members that are racists.
They are racists, and that is everywhere, and I can't stop them from being racist. But what I can do is continue to speak out and to meet people halfway. Because I can't stop the AAPI community in San Francisco, where they're asking more police in their community to retaliate the stop agent harm in their community. Like I can't control that, I would like to say, if they are willing to listen and to tell them the information, how
harmful that may become. Not just for the black community that you're thinking is attacking you, but even for your own community. You don't want more police in your community. You need to ask for more resources, more education, more awareness.
And I always want to give a shout out to anyone who's listening to ask for education and ali ship and sometimes that requires funding and resources instead of asking for retaliation, for more you know, sentencing, you know, more policing, because that would lead to the opposite, because that's how we were divided to begin with.
Well said, Well said, I think that you know. There's a story that Q and I talked about on the show. There was a man who was on vacation in Hawaii, Black man who's on vacation out there with his new wife, and he accidentally, very much accidentally walked into the neighboring house of a temple. He thought it was the temple. He's not from there, walked into this house instead of
the temple. If you've never been to Hawaii, a lot of the houses look similar just like pretty much every other day, goes into the wrong house, take takes the shoes off at the door, goes in, finds out it's the wrong house, and leaves. The person will owned the house was an Asian woman. She called police on them. After he apologize, called the police on the police showed up,
of course killed him. We know the story. This man is not alive anymore because he went to the wrong house to pray or meditator or whatever it was he
was trying to do. And I think that that story illuminates not just what the consequences are of like more police and that sort of a thing, but also it illuminates exactly how significant the divide can be between our two communities, and where our opportunities are to really learn more about each other, and what our fears are based in and are they really founded or are they unfounded? Has there been any real harm, and if so, is
it something that we can get past? And I think that a lot of those questions will find that there's really not a reason for us to have really too much in the way of issues with each other. As you mentioned earlier, there's a younger generation that don't really feel the immigration label as intensely as perhaps their parents and grandparents did they feel American. And I do believe that a lot of those folks are who we saw in the streets during twenty twenty when we were protesting.
We're arm in arm, you know, walking together, and you know they're still you know, if we're if we're dealing with the larger Asian American and Pacific Islander community.
That we also need to deal with the folks.
From the older generation and and understand their fears and their concerns too, so that we don't end up with more police doing more harm. With that said, let's talk about some older Asian people now, or one person in particular, because it is time for our way Black History fact. Today's way Black History fact is about a woman named
Uri Koachi Yama. This I pulled my sources from Wikipedia and from NPR, so without further ado, the brief friendship of Malcolm X and Yurikachiyama began close to fifty years ago with a handshake. She and her eldest son were arrested alongside hundreds of other people, mainly African Americans, during
a protest in Brooklyn in nineteen sixty three. In this packed court house, there were a lot of activists who were waiting to hear their civil disobedience charges in walks Malcolm X, who was quickly mobbed by the adoring activists, Kachiyama said, I felt so bad that I wasn't black, that this should be just a black thing, she recalled. But the more I see them all so happily shaking hands and Malcolm so happy, I said, gosh, darn it,
I'm going to try to meet him Somehow. Eventually Kochiyama called out to Malcolm X, Can I shake your hand?
What for?
He demanded, to congratulate you, forgive direction to your people, She finally mustered. Malcolm X smiled and extended his hand. Koachiyama remembered how she could hardly believe she was meeting the most prominent black nationalist leader of all time. She was born May nineteenth, nineteen twenty one, and she passed June first, twenty fourteen. I want to say her real name. Their characters here that I can't read, but her real name, says Kochiyama, Yuriko, and that's her real name.
We do believe in names.
On the show, it says she was an American civil rights activist and fluenced by her Japanese American families experience in an American internment camp, her association with Malcolm X, and her Maoist beliefs. She advocated for many causes, including black separatism, the anti war movement, reparations for Japanese American attorneys, and the rights of political prisoners. In the summer of nineteen sixty three, Kochiyama family vacation to Birmingham, Obama to
see charredhouses and storefronts left behind by racial protest. The Koa Chiyama's also visited the Sixteenth Street Baptist Church weeks before a bombing there killed four black girls. It was one of the first news stories in the civil rights movement that our mother sat us down to talk about. Kochiyama says. The growing momentum of the civil rights movement and meeting Malcolm X in nineteen sixty three radicalized Kachiyama,
who became more interested in black nationalism. FBI files later described her as a ring leader of black nationalist and a red Chinese agent. Lovely the final meeting and this is how she came to my attention. Kochiyama and Malcolm X stayed in touch through postcards and even in a visit to the Kochiyama's apartment. Their last meeting was on February twenty first, nineteen sixty five, just sixteen months after
their first handshake. In New York City's Albadon Ballroom. That Sunday afternoon, gunmen killed Malcolm X moments after he approached the podium to address a weekly meeting of the Organization of Afro American Unity, which Malcolm X founded after he was expelled from the Nation of Islam. Most of the audience in the bought room fell to the ground after the gunfire, crawling away for safety, but Koachi Yama headed
toward the injured Malcolm X, who was lying on the floor. Quote, I just picked up his head and put it on my lap CoA Chaiyama says, I said, please, Malcolm, Please, Malcolm, stay alive. The moment was captured in a photo and Life magazine in nineteen sixty five. This is a photo that many people have not seen. They'll see videos of black people and Asian people going at it, you know, and black people attacking Asian You'll see that sort of stuff.
But I employ you to look up this video. It's the most human video, or sorry, the most human photo that you will see all day. She's the unidentified Asian woman in the magazine in Life magazine, we're talking about her now, but in the magazine's on identified peering worriedly through horn rim glasses at the soon to be lifeless Malcolm X. His blood soaked shirt is open, exposing his
bullet riddle. Body illness and age slowed her down. And oh and for decades after her brief friendship with Malcolm X, Kachiyama remained committed to causes in the Black, Latino and Asian American communities. And then, lastly, in nineteen eighty eight, she and other Japanese American internees, including her late husband Bill,
celebrated the signing of the Civil Liberties Act. It was a formal government apology that provided reparations to World War two interneys and a milestone Kachiyama helped to achieve twenty five years ago. So, you know, we have a couple of minutes left. I'd love to get you know, your thoughts on Yuri Kochiyama did. First off, did you know anything about her?
I do? I knew a lot about her to the fact that I knew that our history is not shared and that there is a lot of information out there. Again, the only problem is not being taught, and that is what has segregated our communities. But if we start looking back,
you will see that we were never separated. We were just separated in the recent time with the economical you know, division through loan practices, and you can see how if that's done over a span of time, you can see how it can create that minority myth even within our own community. We had to bring awareness. So coming out here today talking with you is just one step forward to bringing back our real history.
Yeah. Yeah, I like that.
You know, I really feel like you hit the nail on the head. There are some things that we just don't know. And I think that when we start to look at you know, for every story that breaks our hearts about each other, you know, there's stories like this
that we don't find out about. And then today in our conversation, I learned that you know, early on in this country's history that the dating pool or the marriage pool was Asian folks and Native and Black and Hispanic people, which to me suggests that the reason that as you mentioned, the reason that that didn't wasn't standardized and that wasn't normalized is because it was a threat to the white
supremacist institutions. It represented, you know, folks amassing power in numbers and strengthen numbers, and so interesting that this is our legacy, but I think that we do have a lot of positivity to look forward to.
Of course, there's.
Conversations like the ones we're having. Jada Pinkett had one on her show, and of course on this show. I'm committed, not only as a promise to my brother, but personally having been to all these countries and breaking bread with these people who are my brothers and my sisters, you know, eating the foods, listening to the music, walking you know, in the gardens and so forth. These are actual things that this man in this body did with his life.
And there's no way you can tell me that those are not my brothers and those are not my sisters, and that those people don't love me and that I don't love them. And so that is my commitment. And then everybody that's listening, you know, they're going to have to listen to that, and we're going to get there together.
But that's all the time we have pa Civic Cipher today.
So again I want to thank my guest Liza Son for hanging out with us today and sharing her thoughts on, you know, race relations between her two communities. If you want to know more or download this or any other episodes, please hit the website Civiccipher dot com.
And until next week, y'all peace,