Civic Cipher 102321 Dr. Camilla Westenberg on Critical Race Theory

love the show. They love the fact that we're giving some perspective to it because you know, there are a lot of other media outlets calling it indoctrination and things like this, and so to provide some context for folks that might not have access to that, you know, they were very much appreciative. And today to have you here so that we can kind of flesh out a more full discussion about critical race theory is something that we've been looking forward to for a long time. So once again,

welcome to the show. And again I'm very very excited about the amount of enthusiasm surrounding critical race theory, not necessarily the enthusiasm in opposition to it, but the enthusiasm in terms of wanting to learn more. And so that's exactly what we're going to do today. So before we get there, all I do is when when win, no matter what you know, like we normally do, we take

a moment to acknowledge some ebony excellence. And today we're going to do just that in the form of acknowledging a story that we came across not too long ago that we didn't get time to put on the air. But finally we're having a little bit of time or we're catching up. This one is for Howard University, who renamed their College of Fine Arts after Chadwick Boseman. For those that don't know Chadwick Boseman is the actor that played Black Panther, And I'll read a little bit from

the article that we have here. This one comes from the Hollywood Reporter, so it says that they partnered with Netflix to also establish a scholarship, and Howard University now has five point four million dollars for the cha Chadwick A. Boseman Memorial Scholarship, which will mainly support students in the

Dramatic Arts College. Netflix is the inaugural donor of the scholarship and this year's recipients are freshman Sarah Long, sophomore Seawn Smith, junior Janie Ferguson, and senior d Dre Duncan. And the Howard President, Wayne Frederick, said in a statement, the scholarship embodies Chadwick's love for Howard, his passion for storytelling, and his willingness to support future generations of Howard students.

I'm thankful for the continued support and partnership of Chadwick's wife, Missus Simone Ledward Boseman, and to Netflix for this important gift. So I do believe that, you know, anytime we get a chance to honor the legacy of someone, especially someone who was able to bring so much grace and honor to the role. You know that now many of us hold dear in a whole new generation of Marvel fans hold deer black Panther just a testament to the life

that he lives. So that's going to be our ebony excellence for the day once again, shout out.

And so in this instance, race of course is the subject that is being looked at in the educational setting and how it is being dealt with and from a legal perspective as well, from an educational and a legal perspective.

and it's being used in the political arena. And so if you think in terms of the climate today and everything that is happening in the world, the division that is taking place, it is not unreasonable for a segment of our population to take the concept out of context and say that it is teaching derogatory things about another component of society, when in fact that isn't really the essence of what it is. It's looking at the impact

of race in the classroom. And that can be in a history class, it can be in a literature class, it can be in a math class, a science class, anywhere where you are looking at race as the topic and how in that genre there was an other an other and what impact has that other person a person's had on the intersectionality of the larger scheme of things.

And that for some individuals who may not be used to looking at things critically in an exploratory fashion, but they take it on face value, are just very concrete or what they have been told, then it's very easy for them to embrace that and say, well, this is being taught in the schools and it should not be taught and it's making us feel bad, it's making the children feel bad. The fact is, as far as I'm concerned, critical race theory is a part of our everyday life.

When you look at the insurrection and the changing of that, how it occurred and what it really represents, there is a denial and not looking at the situation critically. Sure, sure it is not being critical. And you have a population who are being told one thing, Oh they were just visiting, they were just visiting, or are they are told well, the campaign was stolen, the race was stolen.

They're not thinking critically. And anytime you are told something concrete and you don't have the capacity to take it and turn it this way and this way and that way and this way and that way, but you just look at it this way and that's it, then you're not thinking critically.

this delusion. And so I like how you said there's a segment of the population, because that segment of the population isn't all of the population, isn't even all of one group. The rest of us, the rest of us

are able to see exactly what happened. And when it comes to things like this like critical race theory, we're able to you know, like you said, take some time with it, or you know, a word that Q uses quite a bit is explore the nuances of a conversation, of an argument of you know, whatever it is, you know, some sort of debate, anything like that, where you know, there's more than just words, there's more than just interactions. There's nuance, there's history, there's framing and so forth, and

I think that a lot of that is missing. One of the things that I found is that it's not just the media that has an issue with critical race theory. It's actually educators, particularly educators who, at least in the stories I've read, sit high above the classroom. They're not in the classroom interacting with students there. They're more in

an administrative capacity. And those educators they kind of border on like really in the they're they're in the border, in the in the cross section of the educational arena and the arena, right. But you know, when when they get that high up it it becomes political for them.

And so I love the way that you explain critical race theory that it is an examination and it's it's a theory, it's it's there's it's abstract, it's not concrete yet and should be approached, you know, for for all educators, for all people who are committed to studying, and you know, educated folks. You would think this would be very very

easy conversation have. But because I think that a lot of these administrators border on you know, political uh people, you know politicians, I think that's where the right.

that I need to entertain. And there are a lot of other factors as to why pe people may or may not, but logic would say to me, and I say that to say that I think there is a cohort of individuals in our society who are immune to thinking. Okay, okay, I think they are immune to thinking. Why, I don't know. And I also that I feel that there is an element of insecurity, okay, the desire to be superior. Sure, but when you think all of our lives, the notion

of a vaccine is not foreign. Every time I have traveled out of the country or even here when I began school, there are places where you have to get a vaccine to travel to that particular country to protect to yourself. So the notion that this is completely removed from anything imaginable. When you have X number data showing that people have died, this phenomenal that has been taking place, it causes one to wonder where is the intellect, where is the thinking? Critically, so.

are or to somehow come across as intellectually superior. So you all are just thinking that way because you're brainwashed. I'm thinking this way because I did my own research, and by did their own research, they just mean click through their Instagram timeline and grabbed a hold to some things that sounded interesting to them, coined it as fact, and then would start to parrot those same views as their own. It's quite discouraging. But we've spoken about before.

I think the most damaging thing that happened with our prior administration was that they found a way to suspend truth. Right. It's okay to have a healthy sense of skepticism, but to question everything is dangerous. Right, we've gotten to a point where nothing's the truth, water's not wet, the sky is not blue. So as we question everything and suspend a such thing as truth in fact, that's a very very very dangerous and slippery slope where we have no

baseline to start from. So once we start a conversation, we have to first determine, Okay, what is it that we all agree is fact? And if we can't start there, it makes having intellectual and forward thinking conversation very very difficult, and it's very discouraging that in order to seem like an intellectual, we have people who are parroting and grabbing a hold to things with very very little intellectual basis,

with no actual academic research being done. Right, just going on Google and searching doesn't mean you're doing proper research. There are people who are more qualified to do the type of research you're doing than you. They're called doctors and scientists. But once we've determined that they don't know what they're talking about, wow, I don't know where we go from there.

to stay the way that it is. And so something like critical race theory, you know, this has been a complaint from you know, conservative parts of this country for a long time. Well, once our children get educated, they come back and their values have changed, you know, And

this has been something that's happened for a long time. Typically, the more educated you are, the more liberal your beliefs are, the more liberal your votes tend to be in this country at least, and you kind of adopt the world view as opposed to just a you know, Buck Saw Mississippi view. And this is something that the right has

rallied against for since forever. And so when there are these misrepresentations of what critical race theory is, they call it indoctrination, they call it all these other buzzwords that make people freak out. There's absolutely a segment of the population that sees it and it's susceptible to it and says, oh, my god, I don't want my children indoctrinated. And since the association word association is there, then I don't want any part of it. But then there's another segment of

the population that knows better. But they have it somewhere in front of them. There's they don't feel alone. They feel like there's other people that are saying things that they need to be true, and so you know, they'll share this information or you know, you know, share it on their platforms or whatever it is that they do have conversations about it as though it's an attack on America itself.

they accept it? It goes back to this other there was something about here that pumped them up and made them feel There was also the notion of something being taken away from them. Sure of America, something was being taken away from them. The notion that we can coexist isn't something that they can comprehend. They just are not able, I say, yet hopefully somewhere along the big battle, I

don't know. I don't know, sir. I am very fearful to tell you the truth, because I have been looking and I want to go back to you to what you The business of the social media. As much as social media has been an asset, it also has been very very harmful because individuals do not know how to use it. They don't know how to look at it when they get that little snippet of information and say, well, who said it? When did they said? Oh, what was the education of the person? What was the experience of

the person who paid for it to be said? What was the date that it was a you know printed? Sure, none of that information is asked, and they just look at it and if they see it and it fits with in the mold of what they want, then that's what they go with.

something that even I didn't know. And I know a whole lot about the Black Panthers and h.

for a hate crime. Well, their story obviously made national headlines. We talked about it here. And what happened is they had a protest. So activists rallied in Virginia Beach to support the black family taunted by the next door neighbor with offensive loud noises and other racist stuff. Since twenty seventeen, The peaceful march, organized by Russell T, who lives outside of Richmond, was a show of community solidarity in the sleepy Salem Lakes neighborhood the Martinez family called home for

nearly five years. So I guess in short, you know, if there are no legal ways to support you know, you're black and ground, and you know other oppressed individuals, marginalized, I should say, individuals that you know, you know, protesting,

marching that always helps, It goes a long way. And I just wanted to shout these folks, these activists that got out there and marched up and down the street, exercising their right to assemble and their right to free speech to support this family, the Martinez family, the Black family, and that is how you can become a better ally.

Now back to critical race theory, Doctor Wessenberg. We talked about what critical race theory is, but let's I want to ask the question, and I want this to be a focused, a more focused answer, because I think that we take for granted the answer here, but there are people who are listening right now that may not know the answer to this question. So, in your words, why do you think critical race theory is important?

in government, whether it's in the environment. There are environmental issues that we're dealing with right now as a matter of fact, decisions that are being made as to where the funds are going to be allocated for the environment. So and there are differences of opinions as to what should be and should not be done, because there is a different way of knowing the world and the only way that we're going to come together. I've always said, I believe in dialogue you are going to have to

be able to get to know each other. And if you stay in your little sphere and everything is my opic and you don't get a chance to expand, and then there is no growth. There is absolutely no growth. And I think that through critical race theory, the research of it, and the looking of it, if some individuals would dare allow it to occur, then we can find out why we harbor some of the feelings that we have. That and it is okay to be different. That's the

one thing that you have to understand. There is not anything wrong with being different. We can all all coexist on this earth and be different. There is enough space. There is enough, and so why feel jeopardized by it. No one is going to impose on you anything. I'm not going to impose my blackness on you. I am who I am. I love who I am, You are who you are, love who you are, and I love who you are. And there is beauty in it. There

is beauty in it. Even with our culture, you know, the arts is one of the areas where we do tend to sort of begin to come together.

wrapped up in just being from this country. And I feel bad for those people to some degree. I believe that those people were told that they were going to grow up and be rock stars, and those people were told that they were going to live out the American dream.

They were going to be millionaires and have the wife or husband of their dreams, and on and on and on, right, And then time came, and then time went, and they more or less stayed at their same station in life, right, so you know, the real source of this is greed from wealthy people. But the victims, the victims are often folks from Middle America.

Now even if even if they're right, America is the greatest country in the world, right, which I wouldn't disagree with. You know, I live here, I've lived here my whole life. I love it here. I've been around the world. I've seen other Right, you's been around the world. You've been around the world. Yeah, so we've seen other countries. Even if America is the best country in the world, it can improve. In fact, if it is the best country

in the world, it should continually improve. And a critical examination of race, a constant critical examination of race, which was sewn into the very origins of this country. You know, this country is built on racism, right, and for better or worse, here we are dealing with it. But the refusal of perhaps this type of people, or variations of this type of people, to even acknowledge it for what it is. Again, they will call it in doctrination, they'll call it anything but what it is, which I love

the way you said it. An examination of the impact of I'm paraphrasing, and please correct me, you're the educator, I'm not, But an act the impact of historical occurrences and examining those the impact plural impacts using a racial lens to see where we end up, why we end up there and so forth. I think that that's something that really needs to be.

your sexual preference. It's going to be based on your religion, it's going to be based on, of course, your political affiliation. This notion, this bubble of other, encompasses all of that and the atrocities that have been and are being placed on all of these individuals, the indigenous population, the original Okay, all of that is an undercurrent of what we're talking about. It's weighted. This notion of critical race theory is very heavy.

So the women are the ones filming the video just to take you there. And the video starts with them filming a young man. Now the young man is white. The women are black or brown skinned women. The young man in the first young man you'll see is white in the video, and he's he has a sticker on his computer and the sticker says police lives matter right now.

He's in the multicultural center, and the women felt like he was there deliberately to try to intimidate them, and based on everything that we see and based on you know, growing up in that environment, you know, seems reasonable enough, right was. It was very much a deliberate So the man or the young man rather sets up his laptop facing the women as they're studying, with the sticker on his laptop, and he has a Chick fil A cup and a Bass Pro Shops hat, which are again other

coated racist or rather conservative like markers, you know. And then he's with another young man who's in there as well, and the other young man is wearing a some sort of anti Joe Biden shirt. And the women engage the two white men, young young white men, and asked him to leave the multicultural center, and they cite the reasons

that I just mentioned. Now. The reason that I'm talking about that is because the backlash from people who felt like the women were wrong and that the young men were justified being in a multicultural center with all of those things is crazy. I mean, even just them coming up and saying their peace. You know, I've gotten death threats people are like, oh, man, I know where your kids go to school, and they told me, you know,

this sort of thing. The anger that exists is alarming, right, And I understand that it's been a huge talking point on the right, and so a lot of times those are the people that see the videos, and those are the people that respond to it. It's not something that we really need to share, you know, over here, because

it's kind of a normal, everyday occurrence. But for them, they're like, aha, see they're discriminating against white children, and so that's reverse discrimination and reverse racism or whatever, and you know, whatever their issue is right now. The reason I'm telling that story is because, in my estimation, had critical race theory been taught.

a little bit more advanced than academia. But conversations about race could start early in the home and then in school as early as possible, because it creates more informed students who get along better and do better when they're able to use each other as resources and share that perspective and then also impart their view and create better friendships and alliances and so forth along racial lines or

across racial lines. I should say, now you've been in the classroom for Okay, how many years were you a teacher? I want to make sure I get that right.

on shoes. That was my experience. That was my life growing up. And when I did that, it was never with the intent of making any other white person, Hispanic person from Asia, anyone to feel guilty for anything. It's just this is the fact of my life. That was for real. That was for real, and they would have to accept that. You know, they may try not to, but you have to accept that that's the reality that did occur. And yes, maybe some of your ancestors impose

that on me, but that's not you. How dare I hold you accountable for something that someone else did. So my larger purpose in my mind was to share the experience through the literature so that hopefully we can come together understanding, not hating each other. Yes, this occurred, but I don't blame you. I would never have let an African American student in my class make a white student in the class feel guilty. Never ever, ever would have gone down.

I didn't not in the class. And there have been other instances where you have to find the time and the place, and sometimes the moment to address it is not the time and the place you can flip the switch. You can flip the switch. If you're about equality, then be about equality. Let's keep it real. I don't think that you're about equality. I'm gonna go there, go ahead, let's be about equality. I can sit next to you,

whatever color you have. You may have not have welcomed me over there, but I'm going to be better than you are. Or I could just not give you what.

from Dangerous Minds dot net. So somewhat like Top Basketballers before Michael Jordan, the reputation of Norman Lear's sitcom The Jeffersons suffered somewhat by poor timing, and the shows that came after, Cheers, Seinfeld and others are regularly lauded as the greatest sitcoms of all times, but The Jeffersons, Who's Impressed two hundred fifty three episodes were spread across a wapping eleven seasons from nineteen seventy five and eight eighty five,

never seems to get mentioned with the same respect. If you eliminate animated series and long running stables from the dawn of TV history. The longevity of The Jeffersons puts it in a special category with Two and a half Men with two hundred and sixty two episodes, Cheers with two hundred and seventy five episodes, Mash with two hundred and fifty six episodes, Frasier with two hundred and sixty four episodes, Married with Children with two hundred fifty eight episodes,

Happy Days with two hundred and fifty five episodes. At a minimum, The Jeffersons is arguably the greatest put down show of all time, and it never would have happened but for an intervention by the Black Panthers. Here we go.

Norman Lear, creator of a fair portion of the most successful sitcoms of the nineteen seventies, including All in the Family, Sanford and Son, One Day at a Time, and Maud is the subject of an upcoming PBS American Master's telecast under the title just another version of You Remarkably Oh Sorry. Since nineteen seventies, Lear has become more or less synonymous with the introduction of ethnic diversity in American TV, as well as the foregrounding of what might be termed a

liberal consciousness and televised comedy. Remarkably, the creation of The Jeffersons was a direct outgrowth of an intervention staged by three members of the Black Panthers political organization at some

point during nineteen seventy four. A trio of angry Revolutionaries went to Lear's office to complain about the quote garbage end quote they were seeing on TV, specifically Lear's show Good Times, which ran from nineteen seventy four to nineteen seventy nine and focused on a black family in the projects of Chicago. You wouldn't think that the Black Panthers would object to a popular sitcom calling attention to poverty in urban America, but they wanted to see a broader

palette of Black America on TV. And then the next show was The Jeffersons. Then in the same person, uh, I think he had a hand in it, because I read a few articles. Like I said, I think he had a hand in creating the Cosby Show. I know that's a bad word around here, but the show had it's its intention was to show black people in a positive light. The same with the Jefferson's professionals. And you know, we've been talking a lot about really about examining our history.

You know, opponents of critical race theory, really they want slavery to be renamed as like work, slaves to be renamed as workers so that children aren't upset by the history of this country.

talking about and what you just brought before us. Imagine being a member of the Black Panther Party or a member of the civil rights movement in the nineteen seventies and being an academician of any sort and trying to bring some levity to the disproportionate and disparate social, civil, legal, and criminal outcomes for black people as opposed to their

white counterparts. Enter critical race theory and trying to use data to make sense of the very very obvious slant of racism and white supremacy on said outcomes, be it television, be it social, be it criminal, be it legal, all of those outcomes or slanted political, or slanted by white supremacy and racism. Now in the way that if you started dating someone and they told you they had been in an abusive relationship, they would expect sad empathy from you.

Oh my god, I never treat you that way, and it would give you some framework from which you know how to handle this person. Now, imagine, instead of showing empathy and using kindness and grace, that you were overcome with guilt and got angry and totally marginalized, erased, and discounted that other person's experience. That's what the last hundred years have been like for people that look like us in this country. We are not trying to make white

people feel guilty for the sake of it. It's just like, hey, look at all of this information that shows that because we look like this and because of what our country is founded on, life has been disparate and disproportionately harsh to our people. And we're not seeking revenge. We're not saying that we wish your life was as hard. Just realize that this is the reason that ours has gone this way. And it's not to make you feel guilty so that you can angrily uprise and fight against that education.

It is just to simply say, hey, man, these are the reasons why life has played out the way that it has for us, and we appreciate a little bit of grace and a little bit of empathy as a result.

these things. And you know, we're all in here together and we're not blaming anyone for the way the house is right now, but we do have to acknowledge that there's some problems, some things that need to be fixed in order for the house to be everything that it can be, and it's all of our problem together. And it might not affect your bedroom, but it does affect the overall house and and the condition of the house. And I love that. And so we're gonna end it

right there. Once again, thank you for tuning in to Civic Cipher. I'm your host, framcis Joh.