Yes, yes, yeah, that's right. Welcome to another edition of Civic Cipher, where we broadcast the balance and we defend the discourse. I'm your host, ramses Jah, and just like we normally do around here, we have another very special show. Today's guests are two folks that are very visible out in the streets right now. One of them is a protester, a volunteer, someone who has come out of her comfort zone to really support the cause, and I really thought
it was meaningful to check in with her. Her name is Tessa Ferrell, and we're going to be checking in with her in just a bit. And the man of the hour, the man that I've been wanting to get some time with for a while now on the show. You've seen him in the newspapers, you've seen him on the news, you've seen him out in the streets. He's a champion of the cause, a champion of a decidedly
black agenda out on the streets. If you go back in the city for any length of time, you'll recognize the name as perhaps the or else one of the finest MC's to ever come from this city. And I mean that that's a genuine compliment, you know, that I mean that because you know, I'll tell the story just a little bit. But uh, the man of the hour today is Rocky Tirade. So so thank you for coming on the show.
Thank you, thank you.
All Right, so let me paint a little bit of a picture about me and you and how far we go back, go back, the way back. Let's let's do that now. I need the people need to know who I'm talking to right now. So for those of you who have followed my career in Phoenix as a broadcaster, you'll know that I have done a show called Ready
Set Radio. Prior to that, it was called Friday Night Flavors, And what we did was we played sort of underground hip hop music, music that didn't really get the same look and it didn't have the same machine behind it as you know, the more pop music, the pop version of hip hop songs, right these were you know, sometimes folks call it backpack music, sometimes folks call it real hip hop. But in any case, what it did was it gave us an opportunity to play artists who were
from Phoenix, which is where I live. So obviously I worked with a lot of artists from the city and a lot of artists who are signed smaller labels, you know, nationally and internationally. But Rocky Tirade was just an amazing lyricist, is I should say, an amazing lyricist, And I know you're not really known for that now, but I got to tell this third way it happened, well, I guess.
You yeah, yeah, you know, yeah, come on board.
It was just getting on, so I'll never forget it. You know, Rocky and I we would see each other backstage, We would see each other just out on the streets, you know, just he would come up to the station from time to time and just hang out. And I discovered that he had this amazing talent, and I wanted to figure out a way to sort of like circumvent
the system. You know, when you're doing a radio show, you have to be fair to everybody, and I can't play your song every week, or every song that you come out with, because there's other people who deserve a place on the show. So I decided, along with Blue let kV, to create a feature on the show that would allow Rocky and his amazing talent to be heard
by the city every week. So the feature was called Rocky Tirade At the podium, and what he would do is a weekly news recap of all the events that took place that week, and he would deliver it to us in rap form, and usually it would be about a minute, minute and a half something like that. It was a real short feature, but it allowed me to have his name out there every week and display his talent every week, which I thought he was deserving of.
It wasn't necessarily a song, so it didn't count toward you know, spins or anything like that, you know, in their industry, so I wasn't cheating. I just felt like it was very necessary, and as the show producer and host, it was my you know, executive privileged slash prerogative to do so, and I stand by that decision. But in doing so, I got to hear these rhymes every week, and I noticed that Rocky would take a decidedly political, often times very liberal approach to the goings on in
this country, or a liberal view, i should say. And you know, a lot of folks that are familiar with his music might know him to be very very much you know, tell it like it is, keep it real, you know, I'm not I'm not going to say something that that spares your feelings. But what I found is that there was a lot of empathy or sympathy for the state of things, and there was a lot of cause to action and and things that still exist today
in his character out on the streets. And so we were able to do that until you broke everybody's heart and retired the feature. I know you was probably get exhausted doing that every week, right, new rhymes every week. But I would say we probably did that for you know, the better part of a year. It's not a full year or something like that. Yeah, And I know that
a lot of folks were really grateful for that. It really made the show better and then and obviously it gave me a chance to really put on full display your talent. So fast forward till now. Rocky is affiliated with a group called We Rising. So do me a favor, tell the folks a little bit about what We're Rising is.
So we Rising, it's more of an initiative to you know, push for equity in a black and brown community. How it came to be was really, I guess the first protests that were taking place in late May, I think like the twenty seventh, twenty eighth, right, after the unfortunate events of both George Floyd and the course out here in Phoenix with Dion Johnson.
So there was a lot of.
Uproar and things of that nature, and you know, the city wanted to exercise its voice, so of course people took it to the streets. Me having a lot of experience with this over the years off and on contributing to these type of events, knew what to expect, how the police are overly aggressive. You know, the threats of tear gassing, and you know how they can lead to stampedes, and you know, just you know, learning how to you know, make sure that you were hydrated and all these things.
That younger individuals don't really know of. So you know, we showed up in order.
Kind of like an unofficial like medics supplies role for the first like day or so, and then noticing there wasn't a lot of individuals out there at that point in time with experience, so I just naturally, being an MC, I just took to you know, moving the crowd.
This is what we do.
So one thing led to another end next thing, you know, we're leading protests all throughout the weekend, and this is at a very precarious time when Deucy is basically threatening a.
Full on shut down of Arizona and all of that.
And I feel that a lot of these individuals who came together were able to help steer things in the direction, able to exercise our first Amendment and prevent like the state from completely shutting down and inhibiting us from expressing our voice.
Was able to run into like minded individuals.
And we formed we rising, you know, just off this idea that we can really take this energy and push it towards legislative change. And we started all the way back in the end of May and early June and wor over here on the eve of an election season, a very important one, mind you. And it's a testament to all the people that we've met along the way. So, you know, suspend spend a pretty interesting journey thus far.
Okay, And for those that don't know, if you're not in Phoenix.
Deucey is Doug Ducy, the governor.
The governor of Arizona, Doug Deocy. Now, because I know a version of you that was decidedly you know, on MC and I recognize that the climate in the country has changed politically and racially. You know, and I can speak to the events that kind of took me from what I once did to where I am now with an old radio station not allowing, you know, a platform for black and brown voices to be heard, to express themselves, to express tell the truth about what's going on in
the streets. Was there a thing for you recently or at any point in time that got you to thinking, like, you know what, maybe my voice can go a little bit further than you know, these four walls inside of a concert and on a stage, or maybe my voice can go a little bit further than just being on on you know, on songs.
Yeah, you know, I feel like, you know, if you are a shepherd of like the culture and people follow you and you engage in these things, it's you have to do a little bit more than just apply yourself.
I mean you do that.
You do that, like we see you out there all the time, you know, and it's do you have to you have to be of the culture completely, Like you have to contribute physically, you know, especially right now, you know this we need all hands on deck. This is one of the most important times in history and can go in one way or another, both in decidedly like different directions, and we have to make sure that we
take the time to invest into our future. And you know, COVID unfortunately set up the playing field for us to be able to excuse me, you know, really apply ourselves in that physical manner. So I mean myself, like I said before, it's something I've always kind.
Of done of dabbled in and out of it.
But given the circumstances right now, it's just given me the liberty to really fully apply myself, you know, seeing some other individuals in are scene do so it's it's been an encouraging thing to witness.
Also, Okay, very good if you just tune it in. That is Rocky Tirade from We Rising. He is our guest for today on Civic Cipher, and we also have another guest. She goes by the name of Tessa Farrell, and she works very closely with WE Rising. I always see you know, her out there in support of Rocky, and the reason why I wanted to have one of the volunteers come up, one of the protesters come up.
Her specifically is because she is white and she is consistently out on the streets championing this this effort to make the world a more just place for her black and brown brothers, and so I have to I have
to paint this picture now. Forgive me, because I don't I don't know, but my assumption is that you perhaps grew up in a white house in a predominantly white community, and this is not something that if it, if it continued, these these uh injustices by the police, by the criminal justice system, this is not something that would affect your life directly or perhaps even indirectly. So I want to ask this question, what was it that moved you to protest in the first place?
You know, I I think I wish I had a better answer other than maybe it just feels like something you know inherently.
You're supposed to do greater.
I feel like anytime anyone, an individual, a group what have you, comes to you and says or is sharing their experience and saying, there's hurt, there's trauma, there's mistreatment here, and then to watch that go on consistently, feel like you have no other choice but to say, how can I help.
And what do you need?
And I think kind of to what you said maybe in your your open letter resignation, something that really stood out with me is that you know, I consume black culture,
black and brown culture. You know, I listen to black music, you know, I if you will right, you know, fashion, arts, sports, what have you across the board, foods, And I can't you know, I share in relationships with black and brown people, and I you know, I can't say that I enjoy or I'm a part of these things and not turn around and then want to you know, stand up for a cause when these very people are saying they're under attack, you know.
Very good. So so what is it about We Rising that spoke to you versus some of the other organizations that have organized you know, protests or you know, what have you? What is it about Rocky and his group that has kind of mobilized you.
I mean, I think you know, there are first a lot of amazing organizations in the valley championing around you know, racial injustice, and you know, and what is what I'm trying to say here, like incarceration and deportation. You know, there's a lot of really great organizations doing things for
those communities. But you know, very early on, I saw We Rising mobilize at a point where I think time really felt like it was of the essence to really show up for you know, black and brown lives in the Phoenix community right on, uh, you know, the heels of George Floyd and like Rocky said, Dion.
Johnson and our community.
And in such a short little window they were able to you know, get thousands of people to the streets. And then what's what's continued that for me, that relationship is the ways it's continued to grow, the depth at which it feels, you know from my perspective that it's continued to grow. So it's not just disruption in the street, but also you know, looks like real, like Rocky said, legislative change and you know, policy change and leadership change.
And while being in the street is important, you know, making sure that that hits at a deeper level is you know, of equal or greater importance. And it just felt like the organization really had you know, a full form my opinion, like, you know, a really full perspective and value of all of that. Not that they asked for my opinion, but.
I think that you know a lot of folks would agree with you, and one group that would agree with you would probably be the Phoenix Police themselves, because, in my opinion, a lot of them have been behaving as though they are feeling threatened by what's happening on the streets. Absolutely,
which absolutely brings me to my next point. My understanding is that a lot of the leadership and all the organizations across the board have been unfairly targeted, persecuted, bullied, arrested, lattained, et cetera by the Phoenix Police Department in an attempt, deliberate attempt, strategic attempt to quell the movement, to dismantle
the leadership, to caused division, et cetera. And I know that you were recently a victim of that, Rocky, So tell me about your arrest, tell me about the day, everything leading up to it, and then what happened.
Oh, I mean the day in itself.
We have an event called we All We Got and it's more of an initiative to benefit those who are part of the unsheltered community. So we show up with supply sanitation products, you know, close just just doing human things like how you do with the hashtag lunch bag and everything.
Just that's a very big source of inspiration, by the way, So thank.
You, you know, like and so that day that everything had concluded, we were all getting ready to you know, continue.
To another event afterwards.
And while leaving went down, I think Washington got over to nineteenth and as soon as I got an the intersection, the car got behind me. Can tell by the silhouette e vent that it's a police vehicle, got halfway into the intersection, hit me at the lights. They all approached from different angles, arrested me. I was taken and my car was taken and under ten minutes. So if you've ever been ever called like triple A, you know you're gonna sit there for about thirty forty five minutes and
the sun maybe longer. So obviously they have they have lists, and this is confirmed by individuals who had been arrested prior with seen physicalists seeing our faces on there. The person who's arrested prior to me about a week before said, you know, Rocky, you know your face is right next to mine and it's in a red box.
I'm like, all right, you know.
But when it came down to the charges completely unsubstantiated, you know, one of them they accused me of an event in which I wasn't even there. Of course, they have all these digital cameras where they can like or like digital facial recognition cameras where they can.
Look at your faces through the masks.
By the way, that doesn't always protect you, just you know, and so they obviously know I wasn't there. And one of the days was for a thing called obstructing thoroughfare. And there's one real jaywalking crime out here. It only applies if you're placing cars in danger.
We've been doing this.
We've been having our protests walking down the street since as we rising, since I think the end I think June first, you know what I'm saying. And every time we see a car, we walk past them. Nobody really touches the vehicle. They roll down their window. We may give them water, they may give us water. We give them dap, you know, like they honk their horn, you take selfies together. It's you know, it's a good time.
They drive past it, you know. And this day in which they had to charge me for, we were walking down the street after another unsheltered event, and they were instructing the cars coming down Washington, which is westbound street, to turn around in the middle of the street and drive towards opposing traffic. And you can see the cars like kind of stuttering like is this right, and the cops are getting all in their face and trying to
turn around, and I was like, that's super strange. And while walking down Washington Street, I can see that around the corner one of the cars was sticking out one of the police vehicles. They were getting ready to trap us so they can start mass arrests. So we led them down another road and then we broke off. But a couple weeks later I was arrested for that. But there's other individuals who've experienced worse charges where they may have been like corralled and tazed and now they're squirming
and moving out of harm's way because it hurts. That's resisting arrest. Or somebody their friend may get pulled in by a cop. Hey, you know, it's pulling the safety because they choke black people out. That's you know, getting the way of obstructing a case or whatever it is like. And they find ways to through unsubstantiated charges to give them real charges that have a better chance of holding
in court. And now you know, next next thing, you know, you have all these lead organizers with felonies and disproportionately they're typically black. So there there is like this weird co intel pro junior operation going on out here, and man, I wish there's so much going on, and the in terms of how the police department has been operating outside the confines of their authority, that's.
A huge part of it obviously. So yeah, thank you for sharing that. I feel like it's really important that a lot of folks know just the amount of risk that comes with trying to be a champion on the streets. A lot of they.
Will frame you, they will legitimately frame you.
Yeah, yeah, that's what it sounds like. It's just unfair. And you know, I'm sure these charges are a matter of public records, so people can go and see them. If they're all as minor old crime is as you describe them as, which I do believe, Yeah, absolutely, then people will see that.
You know.
Okay, Well, our brothers and sisters are you know, fighting a good fight.
But this is nothing new. This is oh, not even close than anything. This is our grandparents. Yeah, it's hard to complain about. It was just shedding light, like, hey, this is still going on. You know, it's no different
than what our grandparents experience. It's no different than maybe not as like overt as your move bombings and Philly or whatever or different Hamptons, but they still use that level of like like subversive like tactics and things of that nature in order to work outside of the law and spin the media in a way and so such that people believe that we're looting and rioting. I've been seen a flimsy water bottle thrown at the cop since like May twenty seventh, you know, like.
So and and it's it's so funny how something like that could get someone arrested and potentially himmed up on some trump that felony charges and police can literally split your head open, yeah, and die on the sidewalk. And that's there. So just the uh, I mean, if you're if you're listening to my voice, and obviously you understand that that it's it's definitely a an unfair advantage that
the police have when it comes to that. But you know, you this moment we rising definitely has the numbers of the people I've seen that, so, so my hat's off to you for that. So I want to I want to talk about something good because you know, obviously there's a lot of uh difficulty that comes with trying to change the world. But let's talk about some of the
changes that you've made so far. I know, one of the or or some of the positive impacts that you've made so far on a One of them is that that was celebrated by We Rising is that there was a I want to say she was like a chief of police and timp she resigned.
Oh like she chief more.
There were some changes with city council.
Too, Yeah, I mean yeah, so, I mean, you know, it's it's one of those things where I won't say directly responsible, because everybody's like directly responsible. But we've helped contribute to an awakening, like a political awakening. We as not just we Rising, but everybody out there, you know where likes it's cool, it's sexy to vote, it's sexy to like to contribute to the political system and things
of that nature. And there's so many people who have like minded goals and things that nature who are part of or aspired to be part of, like elected officials like you know, that whole body of like political involvement. And you know, we inadvertently check champion for these individuals.
You know, I mean, there's been so many changes, like I mean from specific uh you know, politicians and things of that nature who are now buying to secure seats and representation of the people to individuals who already won in the primaries.
And it's it's been it's been beautiful.
Seeing the everything just kind of ripple, the rippling effect of just being out there and being a part of this structure. So yeah, there's a lot of changes that have taken place right now, good, and.
I think it's important to really mention that because you.
Know, I'm trying to spare names some here and representation of we rising just to be complete. I'm not just there's substance in it, but part of organizations is like you can't directly say names, and I find I'm see, I think a lot of this is BS, but there's there's a lot of individuals who we kind of end rectly champion because they do represent, you know, the greater good of Maricopa County. And there are ways we do it, like telling people not to vote for Alistair Adell. I
can say that you just do the math from there. Yeah, don't vote for Alistair Dell, please Jesus Christ.
So, uh, you know, I do understand, you know that you have to you know, mind the optics. That's something that I obviously that I understand because I have to work with a lot of organizations and you and you and you spaid something earlier. You said that, you know, a lot of organizations were responsible for for a lot of the changes. It takes, you know, a lot of different voices usually to move the uh, the powers that
be to take action. Obviously, a very notable example of this is where there's a Martin Luther King Junior, Reverend doctor Martin Luther King Jr. And malcol you know, and if you realize that you're going to get it from both sides, and you're going to pick the side, then you're going to pick the side that says, you know, this might be a little easier on everybody if I go in this this this direction with doctor Martin Reverend doctor Martin Luther King, so let's negotiate through him, with him,
buy him for him, and then hopefully we'll you know, check most of the boxes on the other side as well, and everybody moves forward. So with that in mind, I do I don't mean this to be a divisive question at all. Because I do believe that everybody has a seat at the table. Obviously everyone has a seat at this table, and it takes all of us to move forward.
We all are in this together as black folks. But I do know that there are some differences in philosophy with you and with WE Rising then some of the other organizations that are out on the streets, and I think it's important to identify and outline those so that people that are listening to you today, if they feel like perhaps their personal philosophy aligns with that of WE Rising or that of you personally, will be moved to come and support and to help further a specific WE
Rising agenda. So what is it that makes WE Rising philosophy different from some of the other groups out there.
I guess we understand that this is a long term process. You know, we can't just show up at the door and demand things to change overnight. And you know, we do have some similar ideas with different organizations. But it's just if we work in unison, understanding that one person is going to pick up the ball and then you know, shuffle past.
It to the other individual for the dump.
You know, if we work with that mind state we're able to really push for change.
But I think.
I think people consider it more like universally, like Paler, because we try to implement a specific system step by step. And you know, first, you know, we engage with the people.
You educate the people at you know, universally and understand and make them understand the nuances of like, you know, the structure of like racial nepotism and you know, institutional you know, prejudice and things of that nature, systemic racism, if you will, And how they're how they're them living in a specific at like part of that society because it is stratified, how.
They their viewpoint may be skewed by that.
So how do you apply yourself, you know, from like say a white privilege standpoint, How do you educate yourself? How do you continuously educate yourself and those around you? And it's just more we approach things from a more like organized, like structural aspect, you know, how does every
aspect of society play a role in this? You know, And I think if you work in Unison, that's one of those things that will help push these changes and bring some of those other changes that other organizations do want. At the end, of the day, because you know, like some people talk about the difference between not reform or anything of that nature, but like say, just straight the
funding the police and outright abolishment. If you look at the timetable of abolishment, for instance, like you first start with the funding, you start with a reformative measure, You start with reallocating these funds towards community structured initiatives and things of that nature.
And you move along the lines.
And it's one of those things where you plant the seed and water it, it sprouts, the next organization plants the seed, it grows, and the next generation comes in, et cetera. Next thing you know, you have shade. You continue to water that societal plant, and next thing you know, you have fruit, and you're able to bear the sustenance.
Of your hard labor.
So, you know, I think that's how I look at it, Like it's no, it's a separate.
But equal sort of thing.
So well, so try to educate the people, you know, I was, I was worried that you were gonna go in the direction of a politically correct answer, but.
I was like, all right, but a home run, I'll take that. You So, if you're just tuning in to civic cipher. I'm your host, Rams's job. The voice you just heard was that of Rocky Tirade from the Wee Rising movement. My other guest today is Tessa Farrell, one of the long time protest volunteers that had supported this movement, and I want to ask you something. Rocky just mentioned white privilege, white supremacy. As a white woman, I'm gonna
paint a little bit of a picture here. You're born into a society that is effectively a white supremacist society. And even if you don't believe that to be true, even if the person listening to my voice doesn't believe that to be true, certainly the benefits of this imaginary quote unquote white supremacist society are benefits that you experience in your day to day life. You are very much protected. If something happens to you, everyone comes to your aid.
As opposed to let's say you were born a black woman. It would be a very different world for you and a lot of different challenges there. And obviously you understand that and have been moved to make the world a little bit more equal for your black and brown brothers and sisters. As illustrated by the fact that you continually come out support the Wee Rising movement, You continually come out and protest the injustice is endured by black and brown people at the hands of the police and other
white supremacist institutions. My question is designed to paint a picture for folks who maybe they their heart goes out, you know, maybe they come from a similar background or the same background. Maybe they are white women, maybe they are white folks. Maybe they're just you know, maybe they want to make a connection but they have not been able to because of one reason or another. But I want to ask you what is it that Well, first off, do you acknowledge that white supremacy is a thing? Yes?
Or no? Yes?
A lot of politicians, So I'm saying.
Yes, yes, privilege is real.
White supremacy is real.
And I don't mean to put you on the spot, but it helps to establish that before we go into the next question, how is it that you are able to find your way through your your normal walk in life and challenge white supremacy in your in your own
travels when it benefits you so much? In other words, are you like, let's say you're at a dinner table with you know, a family members who might not see the world the same way that you do, or you know, you're just living your normal life and you overhear someone say something, you know, how is it that you have are able to take on the challenge of dismantling these systems in your day to day life.
I think that.
Just maybe for me, it looks like the recognition that even in what I think I understand about white privilege, the ways that I can easily identify it, you know, interactions with police, you know, even shopping in a store and not being profiled or anything along those lines that we know to be very obvious, that there are also so many ways in which it's not obvious to me even where I'm at now, that kind of what we talk about implicit bias areas in my life where I
don't even realize how deeply that white privilege is woven because it's such a framework, you know, put such a part of my identity, that there are so many ways in which I'm probably receiving benefit and reward and I'm not even aware of that. So I think it just challenges me and in all aspects, to continue to try to dissect what that really looks like and ways in which I support that. You know, it's one thing to be aware of your white privilege, but still, ultimately my
whiteness contributes to other people's oppression. No matter how many ways I would try to, you know, circumvent that or otherwise change that as our system sits now, my existence still contributes to that for others.
Does that make sense?
Yes?
And I think that's just being conscious.
I think that no matter what I do, that I still carry that privilege, and that that privilege still ultimately affects other people around me.
Sure. Sure. And one of the reasons why I thought it was important to at least invite you to come and share a little bit of your story is because you told me a story recently about so I think you have like a sticker on your car or something like that, and someone said something to you and you jumped out of your car sort of like mighty mouse, ready to fight. And the confidence that comes with that, and the confidence that comes with knowing I'm not going to be arrested, I'm not.
Going to not confidence privilege.
So I want you to tell this story because I think it's important to like really really explain what it's like to use your privilege to help the underprivileged. And I think that that story really speaks to that. So what happened? How did this start?
Yeah, I was I was leaving the grocery store the other day and some man, a white man, started tailing me and flipping me off very aggressively, you know when I told you so much so that at the time I thought like maybe he was doing it to music, because it was like, you know, he like he did it in such a way that I was like, what, like there was there had been no interaction for like that for his actions to be warranted in my mind, So I thought like maybe he was feeling a song
and he was, you know, just like going about I don't know, because nothing had happened to me that like warranted that. And then it became very clear to me in that moment that it was related to, like you said, a sign that I have in my window that says say their names and then it says black lives matter, Black women's lives matter, what have you?
Black trans lives matter.
And he kept tailing me and it was getting more and more aggressive. He was, you know, following me in lanes, and so I finally parked my car in the intersection and got out and kind of confronted him in a matter of speaking, Can I cuss on here? I just I just told him if he had a problem to to say what the problem was, and uh, you know, get out of your car.
Excellence, excellentence, excellence, and.
He would not do that. Ultimately, that did not happen. Uh, it continued on. We turn earned another corner and I got out again and was like, if you know, you're trying to make a point, like, what's your point, let's
do this, like you want to dance, Let's go. But I think to the point you're making here, right, is that I know in those moments that there's also a safety net there one that that man is white, also because they don't ever want to draw attention to you know, like had that, for whatever, under other circumstances, been a man of color or a person of color, you know, would never, had there been an issue, want to draw attention that could warrant police interference because I know, whatever the optics
might be, that that I further endangered that person's life, regardless of whatever altercations taking place between that person and I. But also in those moments that the privilege in getting out and knowing that I can that I can stand there, that I can do those things that all the passerbys watching, that all the people in their cars that are not moving because I've created such a scene, you know, are ultimately not calling the police because it doesn't look good
that this guy's yelling at a little white girl. You know, like the optics all the way look put me in favor, And that's my white privile that's my white privilege working in my favor in those instances. Hopefully, in those moments, maybe not that one exactly. You know, it fosters a conversation or a space where we can educate or create some kind of you know, safety or awareness or something.
But yeah, I don't want to.
I want to say something like, uh, you know to anybody that's listening. You know, for a lot of us black folks, that's like a superpower. That's that's absolutely superpower.
Then I feel like, you know, yeah, like it'll take it.
Off if if someone else jumps out of the car, immediately you're the one being aggressive. Someone of color jumps out of the car, you're the aggressor. You know, it doesn't matter what the backstory is. No one, No one cares to hear that he was following you, flipping you off, that you're the aggressor, and just knowing that prevents you from standing up from yourself. And I think that a black life is a life oftentimes, especially in instances like that,
that is devoid of dignity. Your best bet, the path of least resistance, is to just keep your head down and let it pass. And we've seen that happen with the elders and the generations that came before us, when they were bullied and they were you know, recently, I did a show with doctor Westernberg. She talked about growing up. So she's in her seventies absolutely, and she talked about growing up where there were just certain things that you just had to endure or you risk paying for that
with your life. And so that very much does to me feel like a superpower. And when you use that superpower to enrich and to encourage and to you know, further create a world that is based in fairness and in truth for your black and brown brothers and sisters, then that's something that is definitely appreciated. So I'm glad that you got to come up and share that story. I want to ask you another question. Have there been any like more direct instances of people non sympathizers kind
of asking funny questions or picking on you? Because I do recognize that that does happen a lot a lot of folks who are not black but want to come out and support a black movement. Is that something that you've experienced in your life?
I mean, certainly, you know, I think I chalk up most of it to being you know, like internet trolls and stuff is really where it seems to manifest more often.
Than not in my world.
You know, people will send angry messages or you know, comment on things, you know, saying hateful and ugly things.
But really I think ultimately.
It's par for the course and just something that as much as I can, you know, disregard, just in that I know, whatever I'm experiencing is but a fraction of what you know, black people are experiencing just merely for existing. You know, I'm like quote unquote taking a stance by saying that, you know, black lives matter, but ultimately black lives are you know, receive backlash and hate just for existing.
So I think that you know, I don't. I don't give it a lot of weight.
Sometimes it rouls me up and I yell at people at intersections in streets.
But sometimes yeah, sometimes the moment calls for it.
But ultimately, you know, I yes, but no more so than you know any other advocate in the movement likely and certainly less than you know black leaders and black folk and black and brown folk in our communities.
So very good if you're just tuning in the civic cipher, I mean host Ramse's job. The voice you just heard was that of Tessa Ferrell, a long time volunteer and activists with the Wee Rising Movement organization. And you know, I will say that, you know that that's that's not something that I take lightly. A lot of folks were out on the streets, you know, you know, closer to
the beginning middle of the year. The numbers have kind of the movement hasn't dwindled, but the numbers on the streets have certainly they kind of took a big hit, you know, as the summer kind of wore on because it's really hot. It's hot Arizona too. But you know, my hat's off to you to uh for just continuing to kind of you know, stay out on the streets, and I don't believe you've been arrested or anything yet.
So yet at this point right, well, my understanding is that a lot of the folks that have been targeted, as Rocky said earlier, have been black and brown folks.
Especially substantial with the you know, the harsher charges and things of that nature. Ones who are still in jail.
Yeah.
Absolutely, there's individuals who just happen to be arrested and things of that nature. Shout out to them for placing themselves out there and utilizing their privilege. But uh, when I speak about arrests and things of that nature, it's definitely reference in reference to you know, the black, black and brown organized lead organizers and things that nature that have been single single handedly targeted.
So sure, excuse me, So.
If if you how about this with all the things that you're you're doing, what what are the changes that you would like to see in the future with the We Rising movement.
You know, just seeing more people take the opportunity to you know, apply themselves politically. You know, like we're in a voting season, but it's so much more than voting. Like, once we vote, you can't just go back to our normal lives. We have to be aware of what's going on, what our elected officials are doing. They can't be allowed to exist in this world by themselves where they can
only hold themselves accountable. We have to be the ones to demand transparency, you know, Like I say, presence leads to pressure. Pressure leads to accountability, you know.
So explain what you mean when you say we have to be the ones to demand transparency.
We have to be aware of what's going on.
Like you know, you don't have to always we all have people have lives and kids and jobs and relationships and things of that nature. But just taking the time to Okay, here's the next city council meeting and you can just find out by going to Phoenix dot gov and you know, just take five minutes out of your lunch break and just scroll through what they're going to be talking about, you know, liquor license and things that nature. But then you see a donation for two hundred and
eighteen thousand dollars through the police department. You see neighborhood block watch things. You see why you know, there's a conversation about changing offensive names and Phoenix that's been going on for years, and you know, like just these subtle, these nuances that really make up the identity that is Phoenix, Arizona.
Like you can just be cognizant by taking the time to look through these things, see where your elected officials view these initiatives going you know, what they voted on their track record, by going to ballotpedia dot com and looking at your elected officials. But I guess you asked me a direct question what I'd like to see, and that's more representation from.
Us on all fields, not just like.
People running for like mayor or you know, like famous or well recognized seats. But you know, look at your county of the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors, which you know deals with so many things that govern our lives. Even for those who want to defund the police, they under say, they work with the sheriff's budget, they help
them nominate, uh the county attorney Alistairdell back then. You know, like the these are things that people like us are vying to be a part of, and you know, representation is important. You know, for instance, with the the County Board of Supervisors, you have like a Whitney Walker, you have a Jevin Hodge. You know, those are are interesting people to look into.
You know.
That's more again about representation, you know, and even down to speaking about the Civilian Review Board. We want to make sure that these things are represented by day to day black and brown and Indigenous people who understand our experiences here in Maricopa County. We have to I note that that conversation amongst black folks that see it at the table, do.
We want one? Do we want do we not want one?
But you know, we all live in the same country together and we need to be cognizant of what's going on. The only way is to demand and force ourselves into the room. We can't just ask by voting for one or two people. No, we have to show up and push everybody through the door, you know. And you know
there's there's a very powerful individual in this community. Uh they're speaking about like this, this black blitz that we need to we need to push for in terms of you know, demanding equity, and the only way we can do that is having equal representation in these in these seats. So representation, that's what we want to see, definitely.
Absolutely, And another thing that just kind of came to mind as you were speaking, is you know, obviously when we heard you know, the plan of action or lack thereof with respect to Deon Johnson.
Uh.
And if you don't know, Dean Johnson was murdered by the DPS, and I think his name was Officer Servantes, the one who took his life needlessly and then let him suffer wiggle around on the side of the freeway for however long it was, until he ultimately passed away, and then there was going to be no action taken against that, you know, after they investigated of you know, when you were talking about transparency, what came to mind, at least in my brain, was transparency with respect to
you know, investigations, because no one will feel like justice has been served if the police commit the crime and then the police investigate themselves and then clear themselves of the It just doesn't really seem fair to have them still be called public servants exactly when they can do that.
So I absolutely I think the transparency on all fronts is really going to help start us down a path that is going to allow us to be more informed and it's going to curtail a lot of the underhanded goings on that take place behind the scenes or beyond
the view of just the general public. The folks that you see, you're saying, just have jobs and normal lives and go on about their business, but are ultimately affected either directly or indirectly by you know, the criminal justice system, by you know, you know, the way moneies are spent in communities, and on and on, and so I'll answer
this first. If I could see one change happen right now, if I could snap my fingers and see one change, it would probably be that that there was transparency in investigations or otherwise, that the people were able to put together an independent council to investigate, you know, uh, police complaints in the police brutality and so forth. I think that that would be a great place to start toward fixing everything. So if I could snap my fingers and
make one change, that would be it. If you could snap your fingers right now and make one change that you think would help the most, or at least if there's a critical process, here be the first step toward helping the most. What would you what would you change? Dang, that's a tough one, right, picked a good one. You picked a good one.
I mean because don't want to be realistic or you know, like from you know, an idealistic standpoint, like I guess, you know, I would just reframe pfraying back to defer backs what I was talking about before. I would defer back to me saying that we need transparency by having.
Our people within these elected seats.
We need complete representation because with that, you're you're able to govern from a standpoint that everybody from these underrepresented, marginalized, disparate communities now have a voice.
And it's not just this speculative.
My chief of staff gave me this information before lunch break, you know, type of governing, and you're able to make fair approaches from a political standpoint with this in the back of your mind.
You know.
That's why again when we're talking about these review boards, we do want people that look like us, that come from our backgrounds, to to be able to stand up and say no, there's cases like this, I can point to this, like this case I can point to when Antonio arsay, you know, I can point to Dalvin Hollins, you know, and these run along the same courses, you know, Like so I definitely think me right now just freestyling it, I'd say that proper representation, you know, because there's so
many other things we can talk about, like and this systemic racism. Okay, cool, that's just a generalized statement. But how do we get through there? So I like to try at this point think of things from like a strategic step by step process.
You know, you win the battles, to win the war bergs, and once.
We see our faces there, I feel more confident in putting some of those more those big dreams out there.
You know, there you go.
I'll take that. And if you're just tuning in to CIPI Cipher, I'm your host Rams's job. The voice you just heard was Rocky Tirade of the of WE Rising, one of the groups that has taken to the streets in recent months to protest police brutalities and injustices on black and brown bodies. My other guest is Tessa Farrell, one of the long time volunteers and protesters from WE Rising as well. And I want to ask you some or question above all else, what is one thing that you would like to see change?
Okay, if we're saying one thing and not the thing, I felt like the pressure of what was the thing so I'm going to say one thing for me, Well, I guess how do I want to approach this. Should I speak on whiteness or should I also speak on what I believe is.
Uh, accessibility.
I'm going to touch on accessibility because it's something that is important. It sits deeply for me. Is the accessibility
to adequate food and nutrition and education. And I think those systems we know by way neighborhoods and the way neighborhoods have, uh you know, the racist history of the way neighborhoods were created and division lines and our yeah in our community and our school systems that possibly you know, in order for what is often you know, black and brown uthed to ever even get to a place of having the kind of voice that they're they're capable of, they first have to be able to, you know, receive
the kind of education and access to food and all of those things that are part of the same system. You can't be learning if you're hungry, you can't you know, all those things to me kind of fall into one sort of similar category, and it's just the accessibility to our most basic needs housing, all of those things. Internet anymore, you know, we know that all these things exist in pockets, and there are larger deserts within communities where all of
this is not accessible. And without those things, you know, babies never get to the place they can be to make the change that's needed.
So accessibility is powerful. Absolutely.
It brings to mind there was a I think it was a program in Philadelphia or some some it was.
It was a city on the East coast, and what they did was they supplied a bunch of kids in low income communities with glasses, and they found out that the reading levels of you know, first second third graders shot up by like seventy percent or something crazy like that, which which is great, But I think that on a broader level illustrates the fact that a lack of resources and a lack of access to resources like you mentioned, you know, food, basic necessities, things like glasses that kind
of are easily accessible when you have money, when you have wealth, when you're controlling the narrative and you know, the politics and the criminal justice system and so forth, just having access to things like that really levels the playing field quite a bit for black and brown folks. But you know, we're almost out of time here, So what I want to do with the last minute or so is point people in your direction. So if people wanted to, you know, follow what we Rising is doing, how do they do?
So?
Social media?
Website, social media is probably the best bet, you know, So Instagram will be re rising the re Rising project and on Twitter's we Rising project. But yeah, we're always always looking to build with individuals, you know, it's this is uh, this is something that takes uh universal efforts.
So and also do me a favor check out Rocky Tirade's music just r o q y t y R A I D just so that you'll kind of get a little bit of that background that he and I have And that's going to do it for us here on Civic Cipher. Thanks for tuning in and check us out next week, same time, same channel. In the meantime, you can hit the website Civic cipher dot com, submit
your questions and topics, and of course to donate. We appreciate all your donations, uh, and be sure to follow our social media at Civic Cipher Peace