Welcome to another episode of Civic Cipher. I'm your host, rams' Jah, and a big shout out to my man q Ward, who is indisposed this morning or evening, depending on when you're listening, but we are still back up in you one more again to broadcast the balance and to defend the discourse. We've got special show in store for you today,
so be sure to stick around. I don't know if you've seen it, and if you're listening to my voice right now, you might not have seen it, but there is a viral video that has been picked up mostly by right wing media that is being touted as an example of reverse racism and all those sort of buzzwords that get the right all riled up. Well, we're gonna
get to that in just a moment. But I also have the ladies from that video, which takes place on Arizona State University's campus in the studio with me today, so we'll define definitely have a lot to cover there. Also, we're going to be talking about our way black history. Fact, we're going to spend some time talking about HBCUs and their origins, and of course I wanted to take some time to discuss our segment that we'd like to do each and every week called Ebony Excellence, and so I'm
going to get into that right now now. Today's Ebony Excellence segment highlights a woman by the name of Maya Smith. Around here, we like black women millionaires, and Maya Smith is one such individual. She is the founder and CEO of a company called the do I believe that's how you say that Doux haircare line and salon, and she creates an her words, sucker free hair care that devotes style, charisma, and a whole lot of attitude reminiscent of nineties hip
hop and nostalgia. In two thousand and nine, after being stationed in Germany with her husband, she opened a national hair salon that catered to women with active lifestyles. She sought to reinvigorate and natural hair care market with products that delivered salon results in half the time. She did this in making Georgia, and her perspective on beauty has been shaped through her experience as a woman of color, but by the thousands of real life salon experiences over
a twenty six year career. One such product that she makes is called we dad Ouidad and it's specifically designed for curly hair, to soften black hair, things like this, And what we have here is a woman who created an empire out of her own experience, out of her own desires to create things that she didn't see existing in the real world, and not only doing that, but partnering with much larger companies and bringing different products to market that are being consumed in mass by black women
and women of color around the world now. And of course, Ebony Excellence exists to highlight women like this and the achievements of black people. And so today we wanted to take a moment to make sure that she gets her flowers once again. Maya Smith the founder and CEO of the Do Hair Care and Salon, And if you're in Georgia, you might.
Want to stop by.
So yeah, but I think it's about time for us to get to the main topic of the day, and that is there is a video you may have seen about a confrontation on Arizona State University's campus between student trying to use a multicultural center. Again, it's been shared by right Doing media as an example of white discrimination or reverse racism, but of course there's a lot more to the story. My guests today are Zara, Mimi, and Ms Donnie, who are all students at ASU's campus. But
of course you're all much more so. Zara, go first, let everyone know what it is you do on the campus and what you're studying and kind of your place in the story.
Yeah. So again, my name is Sara Tacola. My pronouncer devilm.
I am a PhD candidate and sustainability and I am my research is on climate change and colonization. I'm studying what I call the pathology of modernity.
And I'm also the co.
President of the Black Graduate Student Association and I'm also the founder of the Multicultural Solidarity Coalition.
Okay, I love that. Mustani, let everybody know who you are and what you do on the campus.
Hey everyone, I'm Asthani, I you see her pronouns. I am a senior this year. I'm graduating finally with my undergrad in May of twenty twenty two. I'm double majoring in history and justice studies. I'm getting a minor in political science. I'm also getting a certificate in Women and Gender studies. What I do at the campus is I'm an as official role called the co president of the
Women's Coalition. But besides that, right now here, I'm representing the Multicultural Solidarity Coalition, and I'm an organizer within this coalition.
Very good, okay, and Mimi your turn.
So I'm Mimi. I you see her pronouns, and I am a third year PhD student in justice studies, and I'm an in this School for Social Transformation. I am also the co president of the Black Graduate Student Association, and I'm also a member of the Multicultural Solidarity Coalition, and i study gender violence against Black women specifically.
Okay, very good. Now, if you're listening, of course, we're going to describe the video, but we need to paint a picture. There needs to be some context. Because we just get into the video, it will lack the depth that it needs. So this Multicultural Center did that always exist at a issue?
No, it didn't.
In fact, it had just opened that month and it was a long struggle to bring it here, bring it back. ASU had one, they defunded it. Michael Crowe came in with a new American university, and you had a race neutral vision of the university, and it took a lot of organizing. When I first came to the university, being a first generation college student. It was because of program services and spaces for students of color that I was able to get to the level of a PhD student.
Those were the ladders that I climbed up on, and when I came to Arizona State University, they didn't exist. There's no diversity office. Still, there was no multicultural center. There was no place, space, programs, or services for underrepresented minorities. And so because of that, I started the campaign for a multicultural center through the Multicultural Solidarity Coalition. It took
five years of organizing. What we did initially was host town halls and bring students together, students of color, women, people with disabilities, Muslim and other religious minorities, queer and trans people, and other marginalized peoples. These students came together and we continued to hear about how Arizona wasn't safe from the white nationalists who would parade campus and put up flyers to you know, the hostile place because of what a SU allowed and their and their race neutral
policies that they were practicing. And so what we did, through these roundtables and town halls and circles, we were able to take this this information and develop a twenty five page proposal which was we tried to deliver in twenty nineteen and we were ignored.
We weren't listened.
After years of organizing and putting this together and bringing students, you know, voices together in this proposal, and then it wasn't until twenty twenty and the uprising in George Floyd did Michael Crowe pretend to care about race relations in which he said, send me a proposal what to do.
But we had already had a proposal out.
So after our protest, which Michael Crowe comes out with a twenty five point plan which is now called the LIFT Initiative, about what he's going to do to improve African American students' conditions on the campus. One of them was a multicultural center that was only because of this prior years of organizing and this space only just opened up in the beginning of September.
Okay, so I'm guessing you started this initiative in twenty sixteen. You said five years ago, what was the inspiration? Like, where was was what was the need for an multicultural center based off of.
So basically.
It was the fact that like there were no resources that were there virtually for students to have access to that can marginaliz students specifically, that can get them through the program, that can get them through their program, their departments,
and that kinds of things. The retention rates for black and brown and indigenous students were super super low, you know, So it was just like, Okay, being from the West Coast, from California Mediay area, we have whole black achievement centers, we have black achievement counselors at my alma mater.
Coming to ASU, you don't see any of that.
So even me, as a first generation PhD student in my family, I'm coming in and I'm expecting to be flooded with resources, you know, as a black woman, and I go in there and that's not something that's being offered. And it was offered for me first generation college student, for my undergraduate So it's just kind of like we're we're seeing like that there's there's no clear support services here.
And as an attest to the larger you know, racial resentments and of the larger Arizona community that doesn't listen to the needs of marginalized students and give them the equity that they deserve.
What type of resources are you speaking about that will help and make the difference with black and brown and marginalized students?
What what are those resources?
Right?
So they're laid out in our twenty five in our Multicultural Scholars Proposal that we gave to President Crow. So pretty much like we're talking counseling services black col counselors that are black counselors that look like us, we're free for free and who currently doesn't have that.
We're talking about.
Pre college graduate school like for undergraduates, there's things called the McNair scholars McNair scholars. They help undergraduate students get into graduate schools, specifically marginalized undergo students get into graduate schools.
And we're talking about free tutoring services with tutors that look like us that we could put inside of the center so that way students have a healthy access to that because we need extra help because our community, our communities have been ravistered by white supremacy when it comes to their education, our instercational institutions as well.
So just just to kind.
Of name a few programs there that we feel like, so what was it THATOK, why did it take five years to.
Get they ignored us, They gasled us.
They used to say that you don't need a multicultural center, you have the whole campus is a multicultural center, and that you know, we're all sun sun devils, which is really the all lives matter ideology that they were trying to perpetuate. And that was okay until the social moment that was twenty twenty and the uprising, and at that point Crow could no longer continue the neoliberal race neutral ideology.
Okay, so this multicultural center exists to.
Increase ultimately, perhaps its main purpose is to increase the retention and graduation rates of black students, brown students, marginalized students on the campus. And this was ignored for five years. Okay, this is something that you fought for, and people ignoring that or now I'm sure people that now that it's made national news or I guess global in some cases, yeah, it's gone international. There are people who say stuff like, well, what about having like a whites only space on an
HBCUs campus. What do you say, like, how is this multicultural center different from that? How do you do what would you say to someone like that?
I think, first of all, you know, one of the things that happened in that video is like he's like, well, where am I supposed to go? White people are? We go to a predominantly white institution. That means that white people are centered in every single space on campus except for that room we're talking about. You see mostly white professors, mostly white staff. You learn in history about white people,
and this isn't because African people don't have history. We have a much larger, longer, older history, pre colonial context that the university doesn't even.
Teach, you know, we don't learn about.
We don't see ourselves represented in any of these fields. And so that is why it's critical and all the research backs this that you need to have spaces where you center underrepresented minorities to increase retention and recruitment and graduation because this institution.
Was not built for us, you know.
And as far as like white people in HBCUs, you know, if white people choose to go to an HBCU, which is a historically black college, again we have to I think the issue here is that we're not looking at this with a critical race analysis, and we have to understand that race and white people, whiteness is a construct of power and so and black people have always been oppressed. There's a social hierarchy and black people are put at the bottom and white people are put at the top.
So when we ask some of these questions, we have to are we looking at the social stratification of society with this? Why do white people need to be centered in the HBCU.
They don't. They have most universities center themselves.
Yeah, we're going to talk about that. There's because we're talking about the HBCU. So I'm glad you mentioned that. One of the things that I because this is the age old argument of why does there need to be a beet? And you know, when we talk about blackness, at least in this country, I guess a better word would be or a better phrase would be African American when we use the word black, and there's a cultural component.
In fact, it is a culture in the same way that Italian Americans have culture and Swedish Americans or whatever. But when you say white, that's a color, not a culture, you know. And so when folks come around here at least with that argument, we shoot it down with that because it's just one of those things that they think. It's a very thinly veiled conversation piece that they think helps them fortify their white supremacist structures, or by saying, whoa, why can't we have a white space or do a
white thing? Anyway, Mastranie, I want to hear from you, or at least I want you to start this off. So we've talked enough about why this multicultural center needed to exist, what it took to get it to manifestation and opened. Now let's talk about what happened in the video that ended up going viral.
Right, So this is Thursday morning, last Thursday morning, and Mimi was in the multic Cultural Center, that space that we have been talking about, and she was having a black study group happening. Zara and I were in a building across from where the multicultural center is, right, and we were in a meeting with two ASU administrators. Right, So we're right, there's a Mimi's right here. Mimi notices a white guy in a brass pro hat and with a laptop that's his Police Lives Matter sticker, right, and
that laptop is directed towards Mimi. So if Mimi's right there, that laptop is directly facing her, like she can see it from that distance, right. So Mimi sent us a picture, and Zara and I were in this meeting talking about literally the multicultural center with the administrators. Right, So we show the admin like around eleven forty five. Hey, you know, there's this white guy in the space. He's making it uncomfortable.
He was doing that on purpose. You believe he was being there and being antagonistic.
At that moment, I did not believe he was doing it on purpose, but when I went there, it was like a different story. But for now, he has a police Lives Matter sticker in a multicultural So that's right.
He's supporting our killers.
Automatically, right, So that doesn't even mean like there's no way out of it. So Zara and I, after the meeting finishes, we walk over there, you know, to the multicultural center. We walk over there, we wait for admin for five minutes, and it's been around twenty minutes since we have told the administrators about this white guy.
So we go to Mimi.
We're just hanging out with Mimi and there's a bunch of our friends to at this study table, right, And five minutes after five minutes of waiting, I approach that dude with the sticker, right, and I say hey, in a very polite voice, Hey, could you just put down your laptop in your bag because the sticker is making uncomfortable or could you please exit the space if you.
Don't want to put your laptop back?
Right, and just for context, there's another guy wearing an anti Biden shirt sitting right across him.
Now, that's part of what makes it feel very intentional and very deliberate. They went there to upset the the spirit of the multicultural center.
Right, Yes, I'm sorry.
And not only that that a chick fil A called braspro Right. So four indicators, right, and all of them right across from Mimi, a black woman.
Right.
We ask them politely. Even before he could answer, the other guy just starts saying stuff.
Right.
The situation escalates. Right, And this guy, the white guy, his name is Chase Beckerman just for context, right, And the guy in the anti Biden ensured he is Garrett Niles. They're both ASU students, right. So Chase says, well, where am I.
Supposed to go?
I'm like, you can go anywhere on this campus. You can go to the first floor, the second floor, anywhere on the camp right, And then Garrett starts speaking on top of me. And that's when Zara comes, because first I was only talking to Chase, so I don't know why did he jump in right to defend his white friend. But then Zara comes and that's how it starts.
Right.
We did not start shouting. We only politely asked them to leave. They raised their voices at us. We all have to come and speak because you know, we can't let someone get trampled on because of two guys.
Yeah, and I think it's important to note, like, you know, when we told the ASU administration they said they would they were sending their situational response. They had over twenty minutes to get there. Tell me why one of the members of our coalition who is in a wheelchair got there faster than their situational response. That tells me that
they did not prioritize it. And this is the nature and the history of this entire It took five years to get here, so of course they're not going to prioritize staff, which we told them we needed staff before
we opened the space. We told them we needed rules and governance, of which we created last year of that the end of September of in the end of a fall semester, we had created a twelve page document on governance of the space, which we did with the whole cold which represented you know, all all student groups.
They didn't use it. And so when we look at.
This space and what happened here, we also have to look at all of the ways that ASU could have prevented it. And we also have to look in the context of the fact that the nonverbal aggressive cues and the dog whistle politics that these white boys were signifying.
I mean, even.
Before we got there, they're over here taking out their headphones, you know, looking at me, me, nodding their head, and so there was a lot of things that they did to make the space aggressive without ever having to open up their mouth.
I feel like I feel like that is one of the things that the scale down clips of the video lax right. Which, by the way, if you want to check out the video, it's on our social media so look us up at Civic Cipher on your favorite platform and you'll see it, or if there's another place where it's hosted.
Instagram has taken our our video down, which is you know, Instagram has a history of racism towards marginalized communities, but you know all of the conservatives don't have their video.
Sure, sure, but I do want to say this, having seen the video and seeing the the Chick fil A cup and seeing the the the Biden shirt and the police Lives Matter sticker, you have to like go a couple extra steps to find that sticker, you know, if it's if it's back the blue or something that's everywhere, but police Lives Matter, that's you literally change one word from black to police. And that's a that's an that's
an antagonistic stance. So for me, the conclusion that I've drawn that these people were there deliberately to antagonize the black and brown folks in that space, that's not that's not a big leap to make. And so that context, I believe helps frame everything that happened since then. So I think that with the Right running away with this, it's easy for them to to take that piece out or just to rewrite the story around these children being.
Or their children.
To me, I'm a little older and everyone else here but them being white and being pushed out of a space, and then now they want to be the victims.
And they're not. They weren't pushed out because they're white. You know it was because.
Of their offensive, drogatory doglessle symbology exactly exactly.
So so let's do this, let's take a break. We're gonna come back with some more on this incident and you know, figure out some of the backlash that work.
M okay, and now.
Watch my back like that strike behind.
So if you're just tuning in the civic side for I'm your host Rams' job, big shout out to my man q Ward, who is off this week.
But that's okay because we.
Have Zara, Mimi and Maustani as guest hosts today. They have been involved in a video that has gone viral because they were the students who helped create a multicultural space on Arizona State University's campus and they filmed themselves confronting some folks who had some anti black messages in that space. And then right media has taken right wing media, i should say, has taken that and turned it into a huge talking point.
So we're going to talk more about that.
Also, I need to explain what HBCUs are, So we're going to spend some time talking about historically black colleges and universities far away Black history fact But for now, we are going to do what we do every single week, and that is discuss how to become a better ally. So I have two minutes here, and normally I have something going on in the world, you know, something the NAACP is doing something like that where folks can get
behind if you want to support black people. I try to give some instruction, but this week is y'all's week, and if anybody has anything, I got sorry a minute and thirty seconds left. But how would you empower people in that space to become better allies to black and brown people.
We like food and we like money. So I think that's the first two things that y'all could do. Check on your people say, you know, like are you hungry? Can I can I send you some food?
Hey?
You know you need some cash. Here's twenty dollars for all the hard work you're doing. We know antism, anti racism work is hard. Here you go, so we could start there.
And food there's a cultural component of food as well. You're breaking bread with someone anybody else we got a better.
Meet so often times, you know, even in that space, why does it have to be you know, fims of color who have to go up to this person. White people, you need to check the other white people in the room. That's your job, that's your responsibility. Don't make the you know, it's always on black women's shoulders to address and fight all the racism, stand up, speak out.
Don't let us be the only ones. Don't put that on our shoulders. Yeah, it's annoying that we're doing your job.
Check your people, Tell your people to stop with their racist trash and go somewhere. It's exhausting for us to have to do it, So check them when they're out of line.
You got anything, Yeah, I would say just repost our statement on Instagram. We released a statement about the incident. It's not getting circulated anywhere because you know, media has grasped by all right nationalists right now. So if you cut your statement and you could share video, and you could speak words in our defense, that would really help us and put positive influence right there hashtag.
So a few ways that you can become a better ally right here on civic Cipher. With all that said, let's move on, because we've discussed some of what happened in the video. Actually, you know, let's take a moment. Let's let's let's let's continue the video because we we got to the point where you know, you were asking these guys to leave.
But I don't think that you finished so much. Donnie, please continue.
Yeah, So after the point when he started shouting and Zara came, you know, and it's just two of us, because there's just two white men sitting there. We're talking with them, and they he starts speaking up Garrett in a really loud voice.
Garrett is one of the students.
Right, Garrett is the one in the anti Biden shirt.
Okay, right, So Zara replies to him, and they are basically talking about what's wrong with the police. Let Lives matter stickers? Ares is it is offensive? And they both are like, how is this offensive? We don't understand, and Zara explains in a very rational way that this is the antithesis of black Lives matter, right, And I add on to it, I say, you're supporting our murders, Like, who this basis of hurts to be? You're supporting those people?
Could you please just you're just making us feel unsafe. They change the narrative after Zara and I say that, They're said, oh, it's because we're white, right, No, we did not kick them out because you're white. I don't know if that part is clear on the video, but we did not kick them out because they were white.
And we did not even kick them out.
We asked them to leave, but they wanted to be victims so bad they kept saying, kick us out, kick us out. And at that moment, when our voices got louder, Garrett takes out his phone.
And yeah, and I saw him start filming. Now I want to say something. I want to be.
I want to paint this picture the right way. Having seen the video, so Zara uh is a powerful and profound speaker, and I think that it's okay to say that she was firm in her ask. Would you agree, Yeah.
It's at this point. We had asked for years and even that day, you know, for like the half an hour, like protect the space, and they weren't. So that allowed. And because we were the organizers of the space, the only reason the space was created then with no staff there, we had.
To be the staff.
Well, one of the things that happens, whether or not they say it out loud, is that there's this unfair I want to describe a quality assigned to black women who are feeling human feelings, and anger ends up counting against black women in a very hurtful way. It suppresses what is ultimately a human experience and a human expression, and so frustration anger even I think that given the context,
it's okay to say that. Yes, initially, she approaches people in a calm manner and says, hey, you know this is what it is. You had your phone out because you know how these things go. I know that you know how these things go, so good for you having your phone out. But then beyond that, being firm in that space. I don't think that she counted against you.
I just want to make sure that I said that it's okay to be firm in what you're asking for, especially if you fought for it after such a long time. Now I want you to jump in here, Zara. So these guys they pull out their phone and they start filming, and they start trying to be the victim.
So what happens after that?
You know, at that point it became aware of me to me that they they must have not even known what the space is. And that's on Asu. That's not all them. Because they opened the multicultural center, we gave them governance design we and they refused to give us autonomy and control and governance of the space. If we opened that space up, it would have looked a lot different. There would have been painting on the walls already that
would have signified where you were at. There would have been agreements already there, you know, before you opened the doors. So these students didn't know what the space was. And so I was like, do you understand that you're in a multicultural center. You're not being centered. You're white. And that's what they're taking out of context. When I say you're white, they're saying, oh, you're kicking them out because you're white. No, I'm telling you that this isn't the
space for you to be centered. And maybe people don't know what that means to be centered. To be centering means we get to focus on this group. And in the hegemonic Western society we live in, white men, white cis men, Christian people are centered always. So when we create a multicultural space, the whole point of it is to center the people.
Who are already on the margins.
And so that's why when I told him, you're being offensive, he's like, well, you're offending me too. But it doesn't matter that I'm offending you because we're not talking about equality. We're talking about equity, and equity means that we give everyone that amount they need to be the same, and we know black people have not been given our reparations. So equity looks like in a space that's supposed to center those on the margins, looks like my comfort's prioritized
over yours. That's what a multicultural center means. And that's why I told him, you're white, you're not being centered in this space. And so, yeah, our comfort, while we're trying to have black study tables, which is the purpose of this space, is prioritized over.
Your comfort, and you're you know, priorities.
So the two students, you're saying they weren't together, because for me, when I looked at the video, it looked like they were together. It was a concerted effort to go into that space and deliberately upset what was happening there.
You're saying that they didn't even know, no, they were together.
Yeah, but you're saying that even though they were together, because you know, I mean, I only have what's in the video, and so I don't know what the multi cultural center looks like I haven't been at ASU since two thousand and five when I graduated, so and of course I don't know that there was a multicultural center there either, because perhaps they weren't really advertising it at
the point at that point. But you're saying that you don't feel that they even knew, because I feel like, if there's if there's one person in an anti Biden shirt and another person with an anti police sticker and he's angling it at me and giving her flashing her bad looks, that to me feels deliberate, like he went there with the sole intention of doing that.
So maybe heard about it some way.
So yeah, I definitely think that they came in once they see the space and see that it's a multicultural center and they see that, you know, black study tables, that they then decided to intentionally be antagonistic. But I think that it's also on ASU has culpability here for not better having governance, aesthetics and security of the space where the white people could colonize the space.
I mean, that's what they did.
I mean, and then when we find out that Chase is a missionary, they were really trying to Christopher Columbus our space. Like when these two white men, one of them being a missionary, you know, come into our space, a black and brown space, and decide to you know, proseletitize their racist ideology and symbology that is Christopher columbuson and.
Then take over and push other people out and ramses you know, me like, I'll sit up and stay like I could deal with a lot of people. You know, I'm a big black woman, I'm tall, you know, all
this kind of right. But literally, I've gotten to the point where I physically was gonna leave the multicultural space that I had been fighting for because these two freaking white dudes were staring me down and like nonverbally like intimidating me to that point to that bad I was like, the multicultural space is not a safe space for me at this point. I feel like I need to leave. And then as soon as I was getting ready to pack up my things, they came through and they were like,
what's going on. I'm like, you know, check out these dudes, check out these police stickers, check out all this this is, you know, like I feel like I just need to go.
So tell me this. So, Mimi, you're in the video. All the three of you are in the video, but you're in the video, and then there's a third young man that gets up and involves himself as well.
So how did that?
Yeah?
I think that honestly, there was an Asian dude who started talking, and I honestly thought he was going to support my comrade Mustani over here and like stand up for us, but no, he proceeded to, you know, just kind of like support this white man and kind of his ideals about like how he should be present there with the police Lives Matter sticker, and so it was just really spoke to the larger like anti black sentiments in Asian communities, Asian Pacific Islander communities, and it was
really sad to see in that moment, in a moment where we could have a critical solidarity moment, he was standing up for the white boys. And I think that they're trying to assimilate into whiteness because that gives them access to power and privileges. So in order for them to do that, they need to be anti black.
Now here's the point in the show where I have to say something, because we have shared this space with Native Indigenous folks who've shared this space with our Hispanic brothers and sisters, and we've shared this space with Asian folks as well as they all these communities endure different things. This is perhaps the only place where they can come
and say their peace in this space. We have talked about the division in the in some Asian communities where some of those Asian people aspire toward whiteness, and you know, I just wanted to make sure that that was stated, that this is a shared space for for anyone who's marginalized born with a strike against him.
However you want to say.
That, yeah, soultural space.
Oh yeah, of course that.
Space was for him, and he helped to deconstruct it in that moment.
Okay, so say that he did not show solidarity. I'm glad that he's Southeast Asian. I'm Asian, so you know, we expected him to stand up for us.
He didn't.
And this is this exemplifies what Asian people have done in the US since eighteen hundreds. They have sided with whiteness to save themselves. Like my people that have done that because they know if they want to survive, if they want to go up, they have to hate black people.
Yes, that's the anti blackness.
I'm talking to that, Yeah, that speaks to a much bigger systemic issue.
It's a survival strategy.
But we've seen all of the hate that Asian people have endured even in this last year, and we see that it's not working. So your best option is solidarity because when we built the multicultural space, we built it for Asian folks too, and so we need all marginalized communities to come together.
They're not the enemies, it's just they ally themselves with the enemies, and they don't understand that white supremacy is also affecting you.
Those two white men don't give it, don't give anything about you.
Yes, somebody has to be somebody has to be the bad guy, you know. So when I'm talking about anti black violence, what I'm also talking about is white supremacy, because you can't have one without the other. So when I'm saying like that, there could have been a point for solidarity. It's because you try to disassociate yourself from bla from how you're related more to black people then you're more related to whiteness. But it makes you more
comfortable relating yourself to whiteness and white supremacy than this thing. Hole.
Look at these black people. I'm just like them.
Any moment the world has to have a bad guy and right now, and it's always been black folks.
So what are we doing about that? You know?
And we're standing up for each other and doing what it takes to build those coalitions and have that solidarity. Are we just you know, everybody leaning closer to the access to their whiteness no matter where you are, if you're black, you're light skinned, all this kinds of things.
How close can you be to whiteness? You could be more human to the world, so it doesn't kill you.
Wow.
So I think when you said that it's a survival strategy, I don't think you're too far off. That is heavy. Wow, what a heavy thing to process. So since this, what has happened to you? Since this incident, as the school trying to expel you, have there been any sort of like threats back like anything like that.
The school's playing neutral, so they haven't really done anything, you know, checked in and make sure that we're safe.
But I think that's the big issue here.
And this is what we called out and this isn't the first time the Multicultural Solidarity Coalition has gone viral.
Last time it was over a maga hat.
So we have a history of calling out this dog whistle, you know, undercover coded racist symbology that we see on the campus that contributes to a racist space.
And when we do it, white people lose their mind.
White people across America, across the world, now, okay, have been coming into our inbox with lynch threats, rape threats, all sorts of massogyn or misogyny, all sorts of you know, fat shaming, homophobia. I mean, there's not there's not a thing you can't call me that I haven't already heard in these last couple of days. And you know, like, honestly, it hurts bad. At the same time, thanks for raising my profile, y'all.
And they're not They're very violent, and they keep threatening us. We have found our address, We have found her parents' addresses. Right, we know where you're living. We're gonna come right. So this is what they do, and I feel this is what they're all capable of. They want to scare us. They don't like the fact that we stood up for our only room on one of the largest campuses in
the US. They don't like that they can't understand that, right, So Zara's gotten emails and we both have gotten like dms tweets, redded twitch everywhere, or they're slapping our name everywhere. They're telling their folks they're pure white nationalists to go to zar in my profile and dm us right.
So I feel that's just really scary.
This is what whiteness boils down to at the end of the day, threatening us, right, but we don't care. We're gonna still keep fighting, right. So I just want to put that across too.
Yeah, And when the young man Garrett, he threatened even on the video to put say he said, oh, right wing media is gonna love this.
So at this, at that moment, what he was is he was he was second degree murder.
At that moment, he pulled the trigger on people going to our profiles, pulling up people's houses to their address and threatening their family members and threatening to come into people's homes and rape them.
He pulled the trigger on all that.
So ASU wants to go around and talk about, oh, this was a disagreement.
This wasn't a disagreement, Okay, this.
Was a This was a white man who created a heinous act of violence and who needs to be held accountable for his actions. Wasn't just a siff And we and then with the you know, police lives matter thing, we all know that this is a racist slogan. It's a direct it's in it goes up against Black Lives Matter, and it says like, no, I'm gonna discredit this, I'm gonna say police lives matter.
You know.
So in the Black Lives Matter is a movement surrounded around like, hey, black humanity.
Black people were humans.
So you're gonna discredit black humanity by saying police lives matter. And you're gonna, when I call you out on your crap, going to say that you're not racist.
I'll do you one better if you look up police Lives Matter. It doesn't exist online before Black Lives Matter exactly. So that's it's it's literally born out of response to say, well, to prioritize police lives over black lives.
That's it. That's the end of the conversation. And so you're absolutely right.
And there there is also the fact that it was an occupation. It was a small scale occupation. They came and they wanted to occupy our space. Right, So this there moves a white supremacist, a colonial move right, and they thought that we were women. And they'll also say, like, you know, when they're leaving, when Garrett is leaving, you know, I think I'm probably the most educated here. We have
three four PhD students in the room. Like the audacity to think that you might be just more educated because you're white, says hetero man.
That's just mind blowing.
And if as does not see this as racist, I don't know, that's not a disagreement. He's insulting our people that we can't be educated.
I think that's also part of the reason why I've gotten so much hate, and there's whole hit pieces out on me that actually explicitly said that I thought she was just an undergrad, but then when I found out she's a PhD student, a Ford fellow. I think it really irritates people to see loud, black, unapologetic, educated black woman, and they really they can't handle it. And so I think, you know, that's for me code switching. That is a skill and it's a privilege being able to do that.
So I can.
Act you know, you could call it act black. I can be an intellectual ratchet and they can't handle it. You know, because I can jump through your white man's hoops. I'm a PhD candidate in your white man's institution. And also I do how to speak to my people, and also I'm not afraid, you know, to call you out. So they really can't handle the ability to live in both cultures and to be successful in both cultures. And I think that's why they're so mad.
That's that's such a So has anything happened to them as a result of this, I don't think.
So.
We don't know what I'm in.
But what we do know is that on Friday, Zara, Mimi, and I and one of my other friends, we all got an email from one of ASU administrators. He works in the student's Advocacy and Assistant department, so in the dean's office. Basically, right, he wants to set us set up in meeting with us because he's concerned about our safety. I'll want to make sure we have the right resources. So what we're expecting is that they're going to implement the student Code of Conduct at that time, because that's
what is you put in their statement. So basically he might be deciding the consequences for us and for those students right. And the funniest thing is he wanted to talk to us into vidual and we said, no, we're doing it together.
Right.
We're not individual students who want who he can punish individually. No, we are a collective. So that's going to be hard for him.
Right.
So what could ASU have?
I want to read this because I do need to have some sort of context from their side or some sort of something from their side.
I have a quote here.
The Dean of Students office is aware of the disagreement between a handful of students that was captured in a video circulated on social media. The Dean of Student's office will be discussing it with all involved. ASU is a community more than one hundred thousand people from all fifty states and more than one hundred and fifty countries. Differences of opinion are part of the university experience. The university expects respectful dialogue between students and all engagements end quote.
What could they possibly I got about one minute? What could they possibly have done any differently?
This is very neutral.
It doesn't acknowledge power privilege, and you know the fact that we are getting assaulted. You know in these virtually docs, all of that because we're women of color versus as you know, these white men, they're gonna be fine. So that statement doesn't acknowledge the fact who's the aggressor here, who has power and privilege in this society?
And we email them before they release the statement. I clearly email them that's Aura and I are getting death and rape threats. They knew about it, and they're still they chose to remain neutral. So there are white nationalists.
Well, unfortunately that does not surprise me, and I'm sorry to say that, but you know, I've lived thirty nine years in this body, in this country, and a good number of those years I've lived in this state, and so that checks out.
But with that in mind, let's talk about colleges for.
Black people with our way black history fact.
Now this comes straight from Wikipedia. You know.
Earlier in the show, we talked about HBCUs. That sounds for historically black colleges and universities, and a lot of folks, as it turns out, don't know what these are. You know, this show is of course listened to by black people, but there's a lot of allies to black people in black culture that tune in to try to you know, empower themselves to help create the world that we all want to see, where we're all have a little bit more equitable go at things.
So for those that don't know.
Historically, black colleges and universities, or HBCUs are institutions of higher education in the United States that were established before the Civil Rights Act of nineteen sixty four with the intention of primarily serving the African American community. Most of these institutions were founded in the years after the American Civil War and are concentrated in the Southern United States.
During the period of segregation in the United States prior to the Civil Rights Act, the overwhelming majority of higher education institutions were predominantly white and completely disqualified or limited
African American enrollment for a century. After the end of slavery in the United States in eighteen sixty five, most colleges and universities and the Southern United States prohibited all African Americans from attending, while institutions in other parts of the country were regularly employed quotas.
To limit admissions of black people.
HBCUs were established to give opportunities to African Americans, especially in the South. There are one hundred and one HBCUs in the United States of one hundred and twenty one that existed in the nineteen thirties, These one hundred and one represent three percent of the nation's colleges and universities,
including both public and private institutions. Of these remaining HBCU institutions in the United States, twenty seven offer doctoral programs, fifty two offer master's programs, eighty three offer bachelor's degree programs,
and thirty eight offer associate degrees. Among the graduates of HBCUs are Civil rights leader Martin Luther King, Junior United States Vice President Kamala Harris, United States Supreme Court Justice Thoroughgood Marshall, Virginia Governor Douglas Wilder, and former president of Brown University Ruth Simmons. That's another talking point for people on the right that you know, you know, they can go to their own colleges. Why do they need a
place on the campus? Blah blah blah. So three percent of all the total colleges, you know, I think it's just like you said, you know, you could go anywhere on the campus. You can go to any college, But there's only a handful of colleges that really account for the differences in the black experience. I don't think anybody on either side would say the Black experience and the white experience is equal. There's people who would try to get that off, but no one realistically, you know, in
their heart, believes that to be true. And I wanted to make sure that I shared that for our way Black history fact. But you know, just like all of you, I went to Arizona State University. It was not an HBCU. I had to find a mentor to connect with what it really means to be black, to join my place among the ranks of people pushing this culture forward. I have children, so I have to think about their future
and what that might look like. And just like every human being or creature endowed with consciousness that cares about its offspring, try to create a world that's better tomorrow than it is today. Right, this is our if you believe in God God given right as conscious beings. With that said, I think it also makes sense to point out that colleges are often associated with institutions of higher learning, so these are supposed to be the most enlightened members
of society. These are people who are going places, going to shape society in the future, and that's not always true. I want to share a letter and get your brief reaction to it. Q sent this in because it hit him when he read it, and it took a toll on him, and I read it and it took a toll on me and for Q and I a lot of times, this show was our therapy, and we share that with the folks that listen. So we're going to have our therapy, and you know Q's going to.
Yeah.
Anyway, we came across a letter and you'll be able to put it together. So I won't give you too much in the way background, but it says, hello, Black students of our campus. We are writing you from a group sharing the sentiments of many students on campus, of all races and creeds except yours, to inform you what we think of the Negro slash that lovely inward you
hate slash African Americans on campus. We are naturally writing from a non student account so that we are not victimized by the predictable cries of racism and not being inclusive. We expect the first thing you will do is cry to the administration and media. We look down upon you.
We instantly know in all manners, from your language, which most of you still speak in some broken form of ebonics, or to ghetto speak, to where you're from third world sewers in America bought and paid for by the US taxpayer. Mind you, this letter is riddled with grammatical errors, spelling mistakes, everything, But listen, man, okay, let me let me, let me, let me finish.
Uh.
To to how you live like hood rats, to how you appear fro. I have a fro for those that have never seen me, big lips, black skin, Actually that's me. You are different regarding your intelligence. Regarding your intelligence, you are clearly stupid. And while not all students know the average IQ of a black person is seventy five, it is abundantly clear that you possess a lacking intelligence, along with an elementary grasp of subjects that most of us
learned in high school. Here in lays the problem with your presence at our college. You simply did not get here on merit. Believe it or not. Students are not the only who think this and know this. It is a common fact that a black person can score hundreds of points lower on the SAT, but also professors and tas I'm sure you can see it in their faces
and behavior towards you. The only reason ninety nine percent of black students are at you mass, You MASS, is because you were given an easy pass, and this applies to every other post secondary institution. Not only do you lack intellectual chops, you never truly fit in with campus culture or any clique on campus, and the only reason we engage with you is out of fear of being called racist and your forced imposition White people, Asians, Hispanics.
Almost none of us truly want to interact with you. We only do so because it is required. The entire history of black people in the US is unlike every other superior ethnic groups. Literally every single one, including Asians, who are richer and more educated than whites, is one of the imposition on our society. Every cry, every wine, every demand stems from a place of rejection. You must beg the rest of society to accept you and allow you in, because otherwise we would never interact with you.
The natural inclination has not subsided you. People should seriously consider doing the human race of favor and getting sterilized. I'm not being facetious. You should consider undergoing the surgical procedure to remove your gonads, thereby sparing the human race exposure to your DNA. The world will thank you. Thank you for reading our letter um Mass Coalition for a Better Society. And unfortunately I don't really have a lot of time for a reaction to that, because you know,
we were running out of time. But briefly, Zara, any thoughts.
That's the white supremacy. We're talking about why we need a multicultural center because they do think that.
And the thing I want to add to it is that this is a student at another college and you're absolutely right. This is exactly why we're all here today doing this show, and unfortunately that's where we have to leave it. So I want to thank my guest Zara Maustani and Mimi for coming up and for posting the
video again. You can check that video out on our social media at Civic Cipher on your favorite platform, and be sure to hit the website civiccipher dot com uh download this in any previous episodes if you missed any part of it, because please consider making a donation.
The show has grown and it's growing because of your support. And until next week, y'all.
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You're like that journalist, journalist too.
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