Welcome to another edition of Civic Cipher. I am your host, Rams's Jah And for those of you who've been following along with the show, that have been keeping up with the promotions and so forth, you'll know that today is a very big day for us here on Civic Cipher. As you know, the show exists to give a voice
to the community. A lot of times, especially in black and brown communities, there are conversations that really don't make their way to public platforms for public consumption, and that's exactly what we're trying to challenge and change with Civic Cipher. And I think that the issue that we're discussing today and the person with whom we're discussing the issue are particularly significant because there is a special relationship with today's topic,
voting and black people. Black people obviously were not always given the right to vote. That was something that black folks had to work for, and you know, a lot of times there's a lot of hopelessness in black communities, especially poor black communities, so a lot of folks don't really feel the connection between their vote and their immediate lifestyle or you know, their immediate surroundings. So today, what we're going to do is discuss how real the connection
between those two is. And the person that we have with us today is doctor Camilla Westenberg. Now, I do think it's very important. Obviously, many many people.
Know who you are. You've worked with the.
NAAC, You've worked for black people and all people, of course as an educator, but you've worked especially for black people, especially in Arizona, for many years decades. I happen to be around for a couple of those, so I know full well. But I think that for the people who may not know who you are, especially we'll call them allies who maybe are not black, but they're listening to
today's show, they may not know who you are. So I think it's very important for us to establish who you are, and I think that that will help us really give some gravity to today's message. So we'll start how I know you. You are a professor emeritus of Phoenix College in Phoenix, Arizona.
And how long did you teach there?
Approximately thirty years, Okay.
I think that that perspective is very important.
To have the perspective of a teacher and educator and someone who has interacted with young people for her career. The majority of her career. But on top of that, you are also the.
UH. I want to say second, but you know, okay.
Because we have several branches fortunately here in Arizona. But I'm the second vice president for the Maricopa County branch of the na A CP and my focus is political action.
Okay, very good.
And I know that you have a long standing relationship with the A k As. So uh, you became an AKA yourself and continue to work with the akas as a high ranking UH member contributor.
You know, I couldn't. I couldn't explain it as well as you.
What I'll say, given that we're going down this rope, can do all my shout outs.
Go ahead, that's what I want.
I'll come back to being just me. I'm not representing any of the organizations that you're here for you. I'm here for me, representing Kamela Westenburg. But yes, UH, I am a member of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, the Delta Beata Omega Chapter. I am also a member of the Phoenix Chapter of Top Ladies of Distinction and a member of the Phoenix Chapter of the Links.
Incorporated waly Okay, so a well qualified person to speak.
On the issues that we're dealing with, uh today, or the topic that we're discussing today.
So UH.
With that said, Oh, and there's another thing that I wanted to mention U. I understand that there's a relationship that you have or or a familiarity you have with one of the founders of Black Lives Matter?
Is that true?
That's true? Okay, very good, that's true. I I'd l sort of like to keep her incognito because things are so treacherous out there in the world right now as things have unfolded, and I just want to assure the se safe keeping of everyone. But yes, I do know.
One of the three founders, absolutely, So I think that's important as well, because I do want to establish that you are a member of the community, but you're also a very strong supporter and champion of issues that relate
to the black community. So that as we discuss what's what's about what we're about to discuss, we know exactly who we're speaking to and and that the history that exists here, and so it's not someone who again if then the allies just tuning in right now doesn't know who we're dealing with.
There's there's a lot of gravity here.
So with that said, uh, you know, today I read an article and it said, uh, Trump supporters disrupt early voting in Virginia. Read through the article, and you know, they were out with their their flags. And while they obviously they could not prevent people from voting, the idea was to.
At least to the people.
That were reporting on the article, they took it to suggest their behavior, to suggest that they were trying to intimidate the people that were going in to vote. And I just want to know what are your thoughts on that or things like that that you've seen happen.
I think there's definitely an element of that which is unfortunate the United States of America. I myself, whatever I see oversized flags in front of homes on trucks give me reason to stop and think. It suggests that there is a disposition of that person. I know from where that person is coming typically if you are sporting an American flag today. And I do think that there is an element of individuals who are there who do try
to intimidate. But the voter suppression has always existed. The fact that my family, my mother and my father and my aunts had to pay a poll tax to vote. African Americans had to pay a poll tax, was a voter suppression, and that was not the case for individuals in my community who were not African American, and of course everyone could not afford to pay a poll tax. So it does carry over today. It has been said anctioned from the White House. Again. Remember this is Kamilla
Westingberg today. And first, let me say thank you for the privilege to have the opportunity to speak to the public, because I cannot get out there at this age with COVID nineteen at seventy two. But I do want to talk, especially to young people eighteen through thirty forty that age who don't have a sensibility of what is really at risk. I am fearful. I am fearful for them. I am fearful for my granddaughter. I am fearful for senior citizens.
I am fearful for humansanity because what I see occurring now has taken all of the humanity, humanitarian essence out of the world as we know it, and we're not functioning and interacting with each other as human beings, and so we're taking sides. And when you have a president who says beat them up, or if you're arresting someone, take them just throw them into the car and just don't don't make sure that they are secure, or you
do it and I'll bail you out. And when you have someone who is bailing out at the highest level, individuals who have gone against and have had infractions that do not align with the Constitution of the United States and some of the basic things that if a simple person were to do it, they would not be supported. When you have that happening, it's a strange thing that's
going on right now. There's a lot of turmoil. You have the right, you have left, you have alternative facts which can be documented as not being true, and so it's very, very troubling. And what my mission is at this point. We just lost someone on the Supreme Court and she had a dying wish and it is not even being acknowledged. Is not being acknowledged? How inhumane is that? All? Because you want power and money And I can talk about the money part of it too, but certainly the
power is there. What I want is for young people, young adults to understand what is going on, and I want to applaud them for what they are doing. They have seen the inhumanity, especially toward black men, black women. The fact that we have social media now and a way to capture it. The world has begun to see what's taking place, but it has been hidden. I grew up in the South in Arkansas, right on the Mississippi River. Right on the other side was Mississippi, So I know
very well what the possibilities are. Young people today may not have everything that they want. They may not have everything. None of us have everything that we want, but I know that some of them may certainly have a sizeable degree less than what they want. They have to understand what has occurred in the past and where it can go in the future. And I don't think you're prepared well.
And I feel that I answered your question. Do I believe a suppression, but it is it is it is to intimidate well, the the uh you know, just myself. I you know, recently I did some some road tripping.
And I spent a good amount of time in Middle America because there's a huge amount of it. And you know, I saw a lot of those Trump flags and you know, even on the West coast, and you know, on the East coast up north, you know, you'll see the American flag, and a lot of times, you know, a question that I would ask myself is like who are you? Why are you showing that flag here? You know, that'd be like if I wore a T shirt around my own house that had my address on it.
You know, who am I showing you to? You understand?
So I think that a lot of folks don't realize, or maybe they do realize and they're doing it on purpose, but it can be a very divisive symbol because I think that most of the people that wave that flag, with the exception of like military folks and you know, municipal buildings and things like that, it's meant to suggest this is our country, and who they're trying to show that to is people who are they don't consider to be them, And at the very least that's how it
comes comes across. And so it's strange to see people with American flags, even them, and the subtle intimidation that perhaps they know that they're you know, uh uh putting out into the world, or maybe it's it's a little bit more overt because as soon as that's accompanied by a Trump flag, one of the ones out and in uh in Virginia. Then it's it's a decidedly more adversarial position. It's it's almost like MAGA versus b l M at a lot of these places.
And so.
Yeah, I would definitely, at least for me, I kind of view it as voter suppression or a tactic or in voter intimidation, because we can certainly talk about voter suppression, and I think we will.
But says something.
Every every group has its own way of demonstrating you are. I mean, you have the Black Power movement, you know these you all kinds of symbols. The flag, the American flag actually belongs to all of us as a Americans. By that particular cohort. There may be the disdain for an individual who will burn the flag, and I don't think anyone should burn the flag. I understand being upset about that there are symbols in this country, and I
think we should be respectful of that. But by the same token, I don't think it means that you should take a whole population of people and oppose a whole population of people, especially if you were to understand the journey that they have taken sure and the road that they have trod up until this point, which is distinctly different. I mean, there is a thing as white privilege. It does exist, and if you're there, you may not see
it on the other side. But part of the reason there is this fear, there is this real fear of minorities, Hispanics, China right now, look at what the day young people who are from China immigrants that they are being attacked because of COVID nineteen. You have to understand that our people need to understand that we are all people, and you really need individuals need to stop where they are. They need to stop it because we are not demonstrating the better part of humanity.
Yeah, honestly, I recognize that, and I think that there's the majority of people's impulse. If I had to guess, of course, this is not something that you can really pull or you have a scientific approach to, But the majority of people, I have to believe are fundamentally good people and recognize that there's more that connects us than
separates us. And as a result, I think that you know, there are some people who have been conditioned to just be adversary or anything that you say, they're going to say the opposite. That's just kind of in their nature, or they question, you know everything, and they are extra critical. And then there's other people whose impulses to perhaps lead with love, they come to the table first with understanding
and so forth. Now, because I believe that most people have to feel that way on some level, we've survived as long as a species. It begs the question, why are the people? Why are those who are in power at present? How do they get that power without getting the majority of people to subscribe to those philosophies.
What do you think, Well, it's a system. For one thing, we have the president right now because of the electoral college. You did not get the popular vote. So it is the design of our system. And then as we have gone through these four years, we have discovered that there
are some loopholes in the system. And if so, if you don't have a person sitting on that pedestal who is on the up and up, and you bring in an attorney who is not on the up and up, and you look at a Senate that is of the same political persuasion, and there's a lot of power there. There's a lot of power in Washington, DC that affects us in an adversarial way, and many of the things and the reasons that people are tilting in one direction
of the other direction. It's because of immigration, it's because of freedom of speech, it's because of freedom of religion. It's because of abortion, it's because of LBGT. It's all of those things that they in some instances oppose and say, I'm just I disagree with it. It should not be a part of this country. And so that's why I'm on this side of the fence. I understand how a person can take a position toward abortion. I have thought
about that, and I know it occurred to me. If you don't want to take a child in its embryonic state, why do you not want to save a senior in his are her fading days on this earth? A life is a life, is a life is a life? Sure, and so I understand your position, and I agree the people's voice will have to be heard on that, and you have a lot of religious concepts about that. But then I look at COVID nineteen that impacts certainly senior citizens, and you have a president that says it is what it is.
It's a very cavalier attitude toward them. How it doesn't compute well, I think that, you know, since we're talking about voting today and about a president, we're going to need to discuss how to change that. And if you're just if you're just tuning in to excite for today's guest is doctor Camilla Westenberg, Professor emeritus from Phnix College. And you mentioned earlier some of the voter suppression tactics that you were made aware.
Of growing up in Arkansas. One of them was a poll tax.
One that I'm familiar with is a I guess it would be a poll test with like impossible questions. And my understanding of at least the stories that I've read about this is that there would be a test given to black folks and a test given white folks, and the white folks is what's two plus two?
The black folks is you.
Know, calculate through trajectory of a rocket, you know that leaves or you know, like that sort of stuff. So very unfair, and it was blatant over a voter suppression. But there are some things that we're seeing today that are perhaps not as blatant, perhaps not as old vert I can think of one at least, which is this mail like mail fraud voter the suggestion rather that mail in ballots are going to be invalid or insecured or
something like that. And then I think there's another one that says that early voting doesn't count or something like that. You know, So, what are your thoughts on on these more modern voter suppression tactics and how can people be mindful of them?
Mail in ballots work? Okay, okay, I receive my ballot early. Sure, Up until recently, I would have thought that it would have been okay to put it in the mail. I just tend to like to walk in and deposit it in the slot. I don't have to stand in line. It's already filled out, its sign date, it's sealed, so I just walk in and put it in. There's something about making this statement of doing what I need to do and engaging in the process. There are a couple
of things. The postal system has been compromised.
Okay.
Who would have thought that our president, the president would dare have taken down the individual who is in charge of overseeing the US postal system. Come rain, come snow, come sleep. Who would have thought this historical institution in our country would take down an individual who is skilled in the field and put a person who has been a billion dollar contributor to your campaign, who has no information about the industry, who does not even know the cost of a stamp, who walks in and does not
do any type of research within a couple of days. Besides, I'm going to have trucks go and take up all of the mailboxes in select places around the country and remove them, which is an inconvenience. Who is taking sawders out of post offices? And of course these are devices, very expensive devices that can go through and sort them quickly for the mail to go where it needs to go.
To take them out, dismantle them and sell them for scrap, for reducing the hours for your post deliverers to deliver mail, and to say you cannot do a second run, and have not done any research to understand how it is going to impact the country, how it is going to impact medicine getting to seniors or to veterans, or for people to get their bills in time, to pay their
bills in time. That is voter suppression. When you uproot an institution, then of course everyone's going to be leary about the ballot, and you have set the stage for that this president is gifted in causing disruptions. He is
a disruptor. And mind you, while all of the disruption is going on, I listen to the news twenty four to seven, he's signing executive orders, He's appointing judges and undermining the system that we have today unbeknownst And I want to say this unbeknownst in some instances to young people. And I don't want to just hit on young people, because there are some people my age who are not
voting either. But unbeknownst to all of those particulars, while they are marching and protesting rightfully, they have the right to do that peacefully. And there is no reason for an army. Are people in military garb with all this gear that I don't even understand myself to stand there in front of them because they are peacefully protesting, that is there.
Right I can serve no, no, no, no.
I want them to march. I have to get this in. I want them to march. I want them to protest. I won't use the word riot. I don't want to say that. I want them to march and protest to the polls. I want them not to gather together in the evening and decide what are we going to do
over the weekend. I want them, if they do it, gather together and register to vote, and get up in the morning, in daylight, on a new day, on a new day, with that ballot, and I would like to see all of them line up in mass, in mass, in mass and walk in Now. No' is supposed to be social distancing, but I'm leary of the post office. But you can go online and find out where the polling locations are, the hours, how long the wait is, and just go bare.
Let me say this, bam, and just.
Put it in one after do it. Do it. You have the power. You have the power. People have fought to give you the power. It's in your hands, it really is. And even if you don't believe in the system, I would dare say, trust grandmother, your grandfather, trust some of those seniors, trust those elders. Give it a try. He said that, He said that what do you have to lose? Well, hey, we're.
Here, actually quite a bit.
What we have to lose is I can't breathe.
There you go, So how about this to.
So I was watching a video the other day and the first part of the video there's a guy, and he's basically explaining why he's never voted. Some of his excuses for never voting are some of the ones that we touched on earlier.
In the conversation.
You know, no matter what I do, no matter who I vote for, neither one of these people have been in my neighborhood.
They don't know me.
I feel very divorced from the whole entire political process. I would not take the time off from working to make actual money, that does, you know, fortify my life against all of the perils that I could potentially encounter, to to engage in a political system that has forgotten me almost entirely. What would you say to the person who has that mindset with respect to voting.
Well, my age probably has something to do with thinking or elaborating on how the system has forgotten you, because it has, and it hasn't.
Tell him to talk to him.
I grew up. Yeah, I'm gonna go back there.
Leave.
I grew up in an environment, in a segregated environment where all of my education was in a black school system, and I attended a historically black college. I won't do a shout out Arkansas, A M and N College Okay now the University of Arkansas at Pine Bluff. I could not drink from a while at a mountain. I could not eat at a restaurant. I could not use a bathroom. I remember my mother when we would travel, she'd like
a little training part. She would take that. So we would have some degree a feeling like we were human beings when we were traveling because we could not stop and use a restroom. We could not get a hotel room. I couldn't try on hats, I couldn't try on shoes.
All of those restrictions were placed on me. When my grandmother and grandfather went to the doctor, they went to the back to a separate colored waiting room, and you waited and waited, and at one point, when it was the whites were further down and you had blacks, you could see the whites going and coming out and going and coming out. That was a separate floor on the on the on the at the hospital, the black doctor could not practice at the hospital, so you had to
go to a white doctor at that point. Uh. If you went to the movie, you had to sit up in the balcony. If you rode on the bus, you had to sit at the back and if you if a white person came on, you had to get up and relinquish your seats. That's the way it was in your life. Right now, you can drink from a water fountain, you can eat at a restaurant, you can use a bathroom, you can get a hotel room. There are so many things.
It's not all right. Don't get it twisted. I am not saying that we are where we need to be, but there were steps taken. I was a sophomore in college when doctor King was killed, so I was there when the panthers with that, when Snick was involved.
I want to make sure.
I want to make sure people know that these things happen to you in your lifetime, in my lifetime.
And the other thing that amazes me, Rameses, is this what's up? And I know time is important. There are people who are my age who were wearing sheets. They're out there right now, seventy two years old and they were wearing sheets. Now they've taken the sheets off.
Now got badges.
Now they've got badges. Now, Yes they do, yes they do. They've taken the sheets off. So they're they're the counterparts are there and just as I brought up my daughter, they're bringing up their children. So when you say you've been forgotten, yes, there is so much that needs to
be done. But I would say that the fact that you are where you are is because there were individuals who functioned within the cystem to make it work, and you're going to have to pick up the mental and function within the system to make sure you put people there to make it work the way it should work. Or you can even go into the system yourself.
How about that speak speak how about that talk about the importance of voting in local elections.
Well, all of the decisions that are made by the judges about the prison system, about transpor about the school system, all of those decisions not just judges, but commissioners, your governor, all of those decisions made at the local level.
They're not appointed positions.
You go in and you vote. You go in, you vote. Now, I'll just say I have historically as an African American Democrat, and I tend to vote down ticket. I tend to for the most part, vote down ticket. But you need to do your research. Don't be intimidated by the process. Just don't be intimidated by the process. I would dare say if you want to if you want to put if you want to go through the process and get a zoom together where we can work through it, I'd
love to do it. I'd love to do it. Doing voter registration right now with eighteen through thirty year old who are unregistered voters, I'm going to move into mobilization as soon as October the fifth. By the way, October the fifth is the last opportunity that you have to register to vote online, and I would say do it pronto. You use the devices for everything else, take it out and register to vote. Even if you're not sure right now that you're going to vote, just do it anyway.
October fifth is the last date to do it online. And I said do it online because we know the US postal system has been compromised, so you want to get that request in early. You can get a one time only early ballot, You can get an absentee ballot, or you can get a pebble, which is a permanent early ballot, which means that ballot from now on, all of your ballots in the future will be mailed to you.
They will come to your home. And that's what I have all of my ballots come to my own same Yeah, and you can just take it and drop it in. You can put it in the mail if you decide to do that. I'll vote. I wanted to register.
I wanted to talk about something that I think is kind of interesting. You mentioned how Trump appointed basically one of his campaign contributors, one of his buddies, to run the US postal system. But as a teacher, I know that this one also resonated with you when he appointed someone who is not a teacher, not a principal, never never sent her children to a public school.
As the.
I forget the title of the position, but basically she's the person in charge of Secretary of Education. So I think it's important to recognize that we've seen this.
Tactic used.
Before, where he just kind of put someone in who's not qualified but who will basically, you know, support his interests. And in this case, you know, that's not unusual for politicians to do, but in this case it really comes at the detriment of a lot of people, even people who vote for him or people who wave those flags around anything and are largely unaware of the implications of his They've elected him, but they're aware of the implications of the decisions that he makes. And then now we're
we're seeing that on this end. When it comes to the voting process, I've always voted by mail and it's never been a question until recently. You know, the battle it comes to my house, fill it out.
It works great. You know, it's the United States.
Postale, unless you decide to.
Change it or shift the optics, or you know, shift the narrative entirely take it away or yeah, just completely, you know. So, yeah, absolutely, And I do want to talk about your initiative.
To get people registered to vote.
I want to leave them with that, but I also wanted to make sure that we discussed.
What it means to.
The voter suppression, but also what it means to or what jerrymandering means, because that's another tactic that's often used to sway votes in one direction or another. Now, now, before you, before you jump in, I recognize that there is a lot more engagement for people who feel.
Republicans just say it.
Republicans engage at a much higher rate than those with a democratic belief system. This is actually a poll that's been taken many times, and the truth is that more people in this country. Humans on the ground level subscribe to a democratic esque philosophy in their personal lives, but those people don't engage in the in the process, they don't engage in what I now consider to be all of our civic duty. Once upon a time, it was
just a cool thing to say to my friends. Now I recognize that, oh this is very important and I need to bring someone with me. And jerrymandering has been used as.
A tool or a tactic to support you know, the the.
I guess I don't want I don't I want you to explain what it is and how it works. But it's been used to support a lot of Republican candidates or otherwise get them elected.
In your view, how.
Can we first off, what is jerry MANU? I left it out so you can make it top heavy. And then how can we deal with gerrymandering?
Well, it really is dictated by who you have at the helm. Okay, if you have, you need to first. I love the title of your show Civic CIPO, because I think that's part of the problem. We don't have civics any longer. It isn't taught any longer, so we have a whole population of individuals don't understand how the system functions, and they don't understand that there should be
a checks and balance that takes place within the system. Sure, and so what what you have is a cohort of individuals that is pulling individuals and making it lopsided, the voting power to be lopsided in one direction. You know, if you right now, how many things have you had to go through the House and then it gets to the Senate and bam, it stops.
They don't even consider it.
They don't even call a vote. McConnell does not even call a vote. They just sit on it.
There's and and the and I think that the way that this happens, well, well just to kind of to bring those up to speed who might not know because it's a word that gets used a lot, but if you never took civics one on one, you might not be familiar with it. But jerry mandering is basically drawing or redrawing voter districts to favor one political ideology or
one candidate. So let's say in a city you have a majority Democratic voters, you can split up the cities into voting districts where a Republican candidate will win in a landslide. You know, it just depends on how you draw the districts. And now that there's the population is so much larger, you know, there's algorithms that kind of help out.
And that's why you have the Senate the way it.
Is right now, exactly exactly.
So one of the thoughts that I had about how to offset this tactic is an overwhelming and I think you'll like this, an overwhelming dis display of support, an overwhelming display of humanity, because if these numbers are to be believed, and most people have a democratic or sorry yeah,
a democratic esque philosophy in their personal lives. For those people who have never been or you know, don't really see a connection with the civil the engaging and their civic duty and their their immediate lives, if they were to just take the chance and engage, we might see a lot of the power come back to the people and the wishes of the people be fulfilled and a lot less complaining because everyone is involved. Even though these systems exist, they can't beat everyone. They only can beat
someone who is where it's approximately equal. And so as a result, we're able to get some democratic elected officials, some Republican elect officials, but I think that that's largely due to the fact that Democrats folks don't engage in the process to the.
Degree that the census has a lot to do with that. And I was going to talk about the census.
The since it's has a lot to work to get yes, because that dictates where are the money and the resources go okay, and so if you're saying you're not receiving something,
that's those lines too. If you don't put your self in there, then you're not going to receive You're not going to get the appropriate amount of money, whether it's for a hospital that you want in your community, for education in your community, for roads in the community, all of those resources that you're going to need, you're not going to get the funding because you're not appearing there.
And that has been cut short by a month. I understand that the date to the last date for the census has been unless that has changed, it has been shortened, and there's rhyme and reason as to why.
So if you're just tuning in once again, our guest today on civic sideher is doctor Camilla Westenberg, Professor Emeritus of Phoenix College discussing voting the importance of voting, some of the tactics used against voters to suppress their vote, and another thing that I wanted to talk about, and this is a slight pivot, but one of the things that has been in the air a lot because of the protests and so forth, is this call.
To defund the police.
Obviously, there's the Black Lives Matter, the Black trans Lives Matter, there's even other people that say all lives matter. There's a lot of active elements in this country right now. But with respect to defund the police, for those who first, if you've never heard this idea before, the idea in short is to it's not purge. I spoke with Zara from Black Lives Matter. She explained that she hears that a lot. It's not purge.
The idea is.
That we as a society are asking police to do more than they are capable of doing, and we need other systems in place to affect crime rates, to prevent certain crimes from happening altogether, to lessen the likelihood of them happening, or to have a different approach to different
types of nine one one calls right. And so this call to defund the police, which admittedly on its face sounds very alarming, is really just a call to redistribute the fiscal resources of the police department in a manner that is consistent with actually preventing crimes and actually creating the sort of changes that we'd like to see, you know. Not everything requires a person to show up with a gun, you know, because then there's the potential to escalate the
situation exists. For those people who feel like, well, first off, what are your thoughts on that, now that it's explained.
Well, I do believe that we need the police department. I mean, we grew up thinking I'm a mister friendly public. Call the police and you think someone is coming to help you right now? Difficulty we call the police, I would not.
But.
Well, I think there are certain situations where you're I know what you might but I gotcha, I gotcha. But I do think that the police system is a brotherhood, and it is a brotherhood that's infiltrated with some individuals that are a racist and some philosophies. There is no getting around that they are there. Now the recruitment and the training and how do you bring them in to determine what their predisposition is is something that really needs to be looked at. But the police department has a
major major problem. Not all policemen are bad, but many of them are sure. And I do think that when those nine to one one calls come in that it needs to be determined what type of service is needed. For example, the brother that was taken down on the street, his brother called in because he was having difficulty, and they took him down, put a spit mask over him and he died. That wasn't necessary. The concept of de escalation is something that really needs to be a major
major part of the training. And it may be that with the police department they need to have a partner that is there on certain calls that when they go out, you don't have just these individuals with gun and mace and cuss of whatever. But there is someone else who is skilled in psychology or sociology that can look at it and say, wait a minute, this is what needs
to happen here, what needs to occur. So I do think that that whole system needs to be revamped because you have an a sizeable number of people in the police department. In my I'll just call it a a racist. They are racist, and they are there to get their mark and they go back and say, I took them down.
I took them down. And so I think the resources, the deep funding that it needs to be redistributed, and it need to be needs to be redistributed with another segment of the police department that can deal with issues that are in there and they can be buzz words that will trigger them that Okay, we need a rider with us on this particular run because we don't need to go at it the way we're going at it.
We have a first a real first responder. You go in and you assess the situation and find out what it needs, you know, and we'll be there to support you.
Because there is a pandemic. We have a pandemic with African Americans. We really do in the police department, and it has been going on forever and a day when they talk about mothers talking to their sons before they go out, yes, it's true. It's true. It has been a pandemic and the world has not known about it. Just recently have they been able to see it so rightfully. So people are angry. It reaches a point where enough is enough, and that's where you are, and we were
at that point. You came through slavery, where you had protest and you fought back, and you moved ahead, and then you moved to the civil rights movement where you have civil rights. But then you have the panthers and the Black Power movement, and you move ahead, and then we move further along. But what has happened now is that we are going back, and we are going with who we have as the president. Now. I guess I'm lobbying right now needs to come out. He's arrogant. He's rude.
As a matter of fact, if you listen to the way that he talks when he's standing at the podium, you want to talk gangster, I can see that. If you want to talk gangster, he's it. Yeah, And he's entertaining, and he's joking, and he says rude things about people unnecessarily. So I sit and I look at the people who are cheering, and I think, is this what you want for your children? Is this what you really want? And
I have begun to even wonder about the base. And I won't say this is a harsh thing to say. I think there is an insecurity. I think there's an insecurity there, okay, and a lack of knowledge, Lily, and that is why they can be taken so easily, why they can say I'm not going to wear a mask. If I die, I die to succumb I do see it as a cult, and we have it in our hands. The messes we know, we know. I don't think that if if he loses, that the transition is going to
be a smooth one. He has not had adhered to the Constitution and I don't think he will here. He does not have that type of grace, He does not have that type of sophistication. He does not believe in the Constitution.
He believes in himself money and money.
Okay, that that you ain't lied about that, Okay, So uh, we have a few minutes left. What is it that you want, doctor Westernberg for the people listening to this show to take away from this conversation.
I want them to know that they are powerful, They are very, very powerful, and that their power really is held in the ballot.
In the ballot.
It isn't the ballot. Doctor King said. There is an urgency.
And now absolutely.
And they understand the urgency and people are acting on it. But you're going to have to get in the mix. The fact is, I was thinking yesterday you say you don't believe in the system. But the fact is, we're.
Living in the system, no matter what, no matter what, that's what it is.
That's what it is. You live in the system. And so what you need to do is get into the system and work it. And you can work, and you can work it powerfully, powerfully.
Learn the rules and play the game.
Play the game.
So I just want to ask, and you know, obviously this is a something you don't have to share, but I happen to know that Harris is one of your sorority sisters, and I've heard your thoughts on Donald Trump, and because it's a two party system here, I'm left to assume that you might like his opponent more than him, And so I want to ask, who will you be voting for.
I will be voting with Joe Biden, right and Kamala Very good, Okay, yes, okay. They are grounded at least, and they are grounded eloquently in the system of the United States. They are grounded in democracy.
Very good.
Well, I appreciate you stopping by, doctor Camilla Westenberg chance to share.
My thoughts because I can't get out there on the streets.
We chat for twenty years, fifteen of those I've been on the radio, and this is the first time I've been able to have a conversation with you like this on the radio.
So thank you for sticking with me. Finally got a place for you to come.
Anyway, and thank you for listening to another episode of Civic Cipher. Don't forget to check out civiccipher dot com. You can submit questions for the show show topics. Of course, you can follow all of our social media at Civic Cipher. And don't forget the show is supported by listeners, by viewers, and of course there's a way to support the show on the website. Again, that's civiccipher dot com. And before you go, how can people stay in touch with you on social media or otherwise?
The social media thing that they can email me? Sure, okay, an email and that is C A, H W, E, S, T, E, N B S and boy at aol dot com.
Very good, and thank you again for coming out, and thank you for listening to another episode of Civic Cipher.