Civic Cipher 072421 ft. Q. Ward & Ramses Ja

I love when we do that. Yes, and it's going to be based on just experience, but I think it's very real and I think a lot of especially black folks, who have similar experiences, we'll be able to relate to. Stick around for that. We also are going to talk about a study that was published in the Los Angeles Times and was recorded to us by the new about how police officers interact with different races differently. And you know, for those of us who know better who that kind

of goes without saying. But I think that, you know, we're gonna peel away a few layers and really see what that feels like and some of the outcomes that are the result from those types of interactions, and you know, maybe what we can do better moving forward to prevent some of what we've been seeing and throughout the history of this country, to be honest with you, and we also have an excellent BABA segment. Today are become a better ally segment. And I also think it's important for

us to start off with some ebony excellence. So we'll kick it off right here and give a shout out to LeVar Burton.

over that role. And as we know, typically that role has been held by a white man, and so it's sometimes uncomfortable, especially in Middle America, to see that job shift away from a white skinned person to a black skinned person, and so he's had to campaign for this. Unfortunately, it looks like they're gonna give him a shot. So we're really excited to see what comes of that. LeVar Burton should always stay unbothered and moisturized, as he puts on his Twitter feed, and we love to see it.

And you know, next stop is Idris Elba becoming the next James Bond. I still believe. I believe it's possible.

the day when that is normalized. But that is a perfect opportunity to segue into our first topic for discussion today and something that I really wanted to get into for a long time. This has kind of been on my mind for a bit recently. I heard it was just in the background, some sort of arbitrary dialogue or something like that, but the term white guilt came up.

primary reason for it. And so some white folks feel guilty about that, and as a result, they will try in their own way to bring a little bit of balance to the universe. And so it's it sounds bad.

You know, there's a lot of well documented instances of if we're talking about a people, white people doing very hurtful and harmful things and damaging things to races of people that are not white. You know, we're gonna speak later on in the show about our Native brothers and sisters, and obviously they have a well documented history of getting the short end of the stick when you know, when it comes to their interactions with white folks, which is

why we need critical race theory in schools. Every time you give me a microphone, I'll say it. But yeah, so that's white guilt, and I believe that there is such a thing as black guilt. Now, hear me out, and I do want to get your thoughts on this expound Yes, hear me out.

there together wherever there is right. And I recognize that the world is changing for white people, perhaps at a

faster pace than it ever has before. You know, I think that this show illustrates that point because it's very likely that the person who owns the radio station that you're listening to our voices on and the sh shareholders is a majority white folks, right, But they've allowed us to have a little bit of time to speak with you, the listener, so that we can share our thoughts on what it's like to be black in America and hopefully empower you as our allies, and empower our black brothers

and sisters and Native and Hispanic and so forth. But the world is very much changing, you know, the population is changing, the you know, the life expectancy for white people is getting shorter. And when you've been in that position for such a long time where you don't have to worry about those sorts of things, you're just kind of secure, comfortably in your space, when the world starts changing around you, any human being would be a little

bit unsettled by that, you know. And so there's a part of me that has to recognize that this is not easy for white people. You know, white people that are well intentioned and mean well and want an equitable experience for all of us in this country, and you know, the white people that don't want that, the white people that resist it. It's got to be uncomfortable on some

level for everyone. Because we're talking about race, and we're talking about shifting away from a traditional hierarchy of race in this country toward a more equitable one. And even if that is one hundred years in the future, when we actually achieve that, the fact that the conversation is center stage, you know, more so now than in the past twenty thirty years in this country, it's got to be a bit unsettling. I know, in the back of people's minds, they have to worry, like, are you going

to harm me? Are you going to you know, this is if I give up some power, is it going to come back to affect me negatively?

you and you're and I'll be there for you. I'll be an ally the same way that you're being an ally to me. I'll stand with you if you stand with me these sorts of things. And you know, we saw we saw a video the other day where there was a woman who was and I want to say, it was like a makeup store and she was getting filmed in the makeup store. She was going full Karen and.

social the new social norms. Don't touch my hair, you know, for those that can't see me, I have a lot of hair, and that happens to me quite a bit. And I know that the right thing to do is correct everybody right. But sometimes it's hard for me to do that because I know that A I need you to keep believing that I'm your friend, that that we're on the same team here, and so I'll let you

have that. And I think that that is the black guilt, where it's like, oh, I got it's it's it's a tricky game we've got to play here, because I don't want you to start crying and thinking that I'm canceling you and I don't, you know, And I feel guilty because I know that you mean well. But you know, we have to learn that some things we we still we still have a ways to go in a lot of areas. And I can't afford to lose you as

an ally. So I can't afford to lay all of my demands at your feet right now.

And when he made that decision, you know, Q and I we decided to step away and do our own show, which you're hearing now. Also, that station doesn't exist anymore, so everybody that supported us, we appreciate you. But wow, but you know, that's a battle that I had to pick. But there were many other battles in that radio station that I could. I could not die on those hills. And I think that what I was experiencing in hindsight

was black guilt. I know that you don't know what my experience is like, and I also know that I can't put too much on you, otherwise I risk losing you. Because the rights narrative is these people ask for too much. They're looking at it the wrong way. You know slavery was a thing that happened all over the world, and they completely ignore the fact that there was a very unique form of slavery that took place in this country that really existed to like dehumanize and brutalize. It didn't

incorporate people into the family and the fabric society. And though you know there and there's a million things we could talk about for a million hours. But you know, if you want to tell yourself a different story, you can,

and if you want to recruit people, you can. And if I'm the person in your office demanding that you check all these boxes right now, it's it's so easy for you to subscribe to a different narrative that fits the worldview that you have, and so that black guilt, it creeps in and it causes me to feel like I shouldn't ask for too much, you know, I you know, I can't afford for this to get away from me, and so I think it's a real thing that exists, and I can't be the only one, right.

the word reparations earlier. The idea that hasn't happened is insane when you review the truths of black people on this soil. And that's why the piwing on for people like us sometimes feels necessary, Like how are there people that still want that still don't want to acknowledge our plight, So it seems unfair to those that do. And when they're both a part of the same group, it's hard

not to speak to both people. It's like giving a lecture to both of your children and one of them is the class president and the valedictorian and has never been in trouble and the one you just bailed out. Giving them the same lecture is not fair, even though they're both your kids. They're both in the same car, they're in the same age group, they live in the

same house, they have the same rules. The one that's the class president and valedictorian is sitting there almost enraged that they have to sit through this conversation Mom, Dad, I know. So it's very difficult doing the show the way that we do it, with the topics that we're forced to address, because we hope that if you're listening to a station that has our show on it, that there are going to be a lot of things that

you can at least empathize with us on. Right, But sometimes if you're a white person, you can feel attacked by.

So it's like, you guys can't see me the shrug and facial expression that you're getting from me right now. It's like, well, it's still happening, it's regularly still happening. Regularly isn't even a good enough word, right. There's things that with frequency, at a frequency that we can't keep

up with. There's stories that we've missed just because our show isn't on frequent enough, and the weeks in between, so much more happens that you know, we just kind of end up moving to the next or most recent thing that happened that might sound and feel the same. So, man, you're absolutely right because I felt it. I've dealt with that.

I try to reconcile, and like I said, even when we're doing our show, it's something that I think about, Like, man, I do not want to alienate people that support us, because the description sounds like them, right, because it's so in so many occurrences it's police officer or white man or white people, and because there's such variance, we can't say the white lady whose name we don't know at

the Victoria's Secret and whatever city that's in. With every occurrence, we can't point specifically to name, person, time, date, description, so we just generally say white police officer, for instance. So yeah, man, it's it's not black and white. It's

not straightforward, it's not cut and dry. It's really it's a really really difficult line to toe because we have to address the things that we address, but it is not easy to keep from alienating people that are a part of that group but not of it, you know, in the group, but not of it, if that makes sense.

an objective. We don't inform people for the sake of informing people, because you can just be alive and click on any news whatever in your pocket and become informed. We try to provide context and have long form discussions about really about race relations and about how do we empower each other to reach the level of equity that I think that we can reach. And this is kind of what we're going for. And so the stories that we choose to you know, deal with are pointed in

that direction. And so that's why this is not a blood and gut show every time. That's why we can talk about things like concepts like this one black guilt and so forth, and so it's it's a little bit different show. But I think that you know, in doing so, like you said, we have to also reconcile, how how

is this going to hit people? Because we know, you know, someone said it was actually been said quite a bit that black people are not looking for revenge at all, just looking for, like, you know, a fair go at life.

And you know, and and we get to decide based on our vantage point and how the world looks to us what that is because you know, so many times throughout history, forgive me, white people have been the ones dictating what is fair, and almost invariably it is way more fair if you are also white, and way less fair if you are not a white person as well. And you know, there's obviously examples of white folks discriminating against other white folks as well, But you know, it's

a power struggling. More often than not, it's.

in is our crime. It is the reason why we're being held back, discriminated against, judged.

We prefer the police who are humans first, you know, But that doesn't mean that we can't be critical of the system that employs them and advocate for change on their behalf and hopefully inspire them to advocate for change from within. And so, long story short, these are my thoughts on black guilt. But if you're white and listening, just know, hey, we love you, and we know that you love us, and that's not lost on us. And and we're going to get through this thing together.

Also going to discuss a way black history fact. This time, we're gonna stand in solidarity with our Native brothers and sisters. The story been wanting to get to for a long time of uncovering some bodies that were buried of some Native children. We're going to get into that in just a bit, but first let's discuss how to become a better ally. So if you don't know, there is a we'll call him a social media activist. This is a term that Q came up with. His name is Maximilian Clark.

And for those that follow our social media at Civic Cipher, I think it's up on our Instagram. You can go and check it out. It might be a few posts to go, but it's still there. And basically this guy is he just gets on stage in this video and he has like a stream of consciousness and a microphone

and an audience. And of course he's a white man, so you see, you're not critical of everyone, you know, but see that's my black guilt having to having to establish that right anyway, at first glance, seems to be a wonderful human being. You know, We've been able to share a few of his videos in our group chats, and he very much deals with the reality of the world that he lives in and is not afraid to tell the truth. He doesn't obscure anything. He like puts

it all out there in the front. And the level of confidence that he speaks with when he's talking about the importance of critical race theory, I mean, he kind of speaks to an audience with some irony, you know, to make him laugh and to you know, help him to understand. He says something about MLK, He's like, we should teach people about MLK, but we shouldn't teach him

that the FBI try to ruin his life. And we should teach people about you know, you know, World War Two, but we shouldn't teach about the the internment cancer of the Japanese, you know. And you know, everyone gets to chuckle out of that. But he's making some valid points, and I thought we all thought that that would be an excellent example to share with you the listener on how to become a better ally, because that's what an

ally looks like in our estimation. So once again, check out her social media on Instagram at Civic Cipher.

DJ Swirrel. Swirrel, does this surprise you that police officers speak to black drivers less respectfully than white drivers? Are you surprised by that.

melanated who would disagree with that. But now we have a scientific basis to have this conversation with respect to policing in this country. And so I'll give you a little bit of background on how the story was or how this study was done. So, the American Psychological Association conducted an analysis of bodycam footage and they would take like ten fifteen seconds of you know, police interactions, perhaps

when they were first walking up to the door. I didn't, you know, it's an article, so it's not a full scientific published paper, but from what I read, that's kind of how they gathered their research. They took thousands of videos, and they quantified and the I'm sure they had parameters for what was respectful and decidedly less respectful, and they you know, checked each box accordingly, and you know, found along the lines of race that white motorists were approached

in a more respectful manner by police. And this this this study was backed by the Los Angeles Times and published in LA Times. And I think that everybody, everybody, you know, there's there's some people that you know, look at police and say, you know, the police really are here to protect us. I'm talking about everybody of every color. There's some there's there's a group of people that it doesn't matter what color they're they say, the police are

here for us. I've never had a bad experience with the police. I've always done what I was supposed to do. I don't worry about the police. That is a real segment of every population. I will see that entirely. But what I think more often happens is there are people who would prefer to have no interaction with the police whatsoever, because if the police show up, usually it's because of some drama, saying with the fire department. God blessed the fire department. If I never saw him, that'd be fine

with me. That just means nothing in my world is burned down, right, So I'm glad they're there. You know, no no disrespect, you know, shout out to the to the to the fire department. But I'm sure they don't want to put out fires because usually that means that people are suffering and dealing with you know whatever. It'd be better to prevent fires, you know, in the first place,

defund the police anyway. So most folks will say, you know, police are just you know, no one likes getting a ticket, no one likes, you know, interacting.

they have no problem letting you feel that. And so there's lots of people who have had those types of experiences, and I would guess that those are people who interact with the police more frequently, because it's more often that you're gonna it's more likely rather that you'll come across those types of police officers, which, as we know around here, are plentiful, you know, those god complex police officers that do what I say, now what I said I said?

Do that? You know, no, no officer, I'm not you know, yeah, anyway, you know the story que, So a lot of people will be able to say something similar, will be like, you know, police don't talk respectfully to me either, and I'm not even black, you know, police, that's just how police are. You know, you just try to avoid them,

staying in your own lane and you know whatever. But the reality of this situation is that the the culture of policing has shifted away from like investigative policing and uh, you know responsive you know, like Okay, something happened, let me go and respond to it, more toward let's just find what we can get on the streets. You know, they have computers that run your license plates. They don't

even type it in. And when I was little, they used to have to type in a license plate if they suspected a car of something, if it was swerving whatever. Now it's a computer that does it. You know, they're just checking every car just to see, you know, if there's somebody worth pulling over. Part of that might be because they're trying to be safe and keep both hands on a wheel, but I maintain that they're just looking

for trouble. And you know, if you're looking for something, you'll find it even if it's not there, as you and I both know. So the problem is that that establishes that it's not really it's not realistic to just move through life knowing full well that if you just keep your nose clean, that the police will never interact with you. Right, you can do your very best, you know, As you know and as I know, we've never neither of us Q have done a drug. We've never even

drunk alcohol. Certainly, don't break the law. You know, we don't have any reason to break the law. Why would we ever do that? And I probably get pulled over all the time, you know, I'm out late because I'm a DJ, you know, I whatever. And then the many cars I've had over the years, some of them look like drug dealer cars. I'll admit that, you know, not something I'm proud of. But once upon a time, I like, Rims, what are you gonna do? It's cultural? Let me live, so.

on the show before. Part of what part of the response that was desired from the Black Lives Matter movement was not treat white people worse, not at all. Just give us the same resemblance of dignity and respect that you show white people, I think in most interactions, and it doesn't matter the race of the police officer when the person in question isn't black, they're a citizen that might have made a mistake, even when there's clear evidence

that this person absolutely did something elite horrible. Yeah, but like you said, the officers a human being first, and they treat this person like they're a human being first too, and that's how that interaction goes down. So even if that person does end up in handcuffs and in jail, getting there was a lot more humane, dignified. The narrative for people that look like us for so long has

been that we're by nature criminals. They approach us as the criminal who's just being a criminal, not a human being that may have made a mistake.

do right to approach people like their people first. Now, the reason that's significant is because you know, there's a very like a like a foundational story with respect to this show, and we've told it a few times on the air where Q and I were both pulled over in Mississippi driving from Florida to Arizona in a brand new Porsche and we got pulled over in Mississippi in the middle of night for those who don't know, and had a bit of an interaction, and you know, I

don't need to tell the whole story again, but it took a long time.

It's not the same in Arizona. The grooves light outside of the white line. And so we're driving and you know, listening to music, road tripping, you know, having a good time, make a little bit of noise for about a half second. It wasn't even a full second. It wasn't even that long in the way I remember it. But if it was, then sure, and a quarter mile later there's lights behind us.

We get pulled over. Typically if a car is swerving, the officer will want to check to see if the driver is inebriated or if there's you know, the driver otherwise presents a threat to road safety. Now it's like two in the morning, there's no cars out, and this gentleman to my left is speaking to this officer, which, by the way, Q is one of the most intelligent human beings in the world. And I know, I know a lot of them.

We haven't committed any offense to anyone else. No need to go beyond that.

able to get out of there. It's a much scarier story than I'm telling you, but for the sake of time, you know, that's that's effectively what happened. Now, if we were an older white couple, Let's say, Q, you're sixty five year old privileged corporate executive and I am a CFO of a business, and we're.

you know, uh, artificial restraints and so forth. And you know, some black people know how to play the game like we do, and they do it for most of their lives. And then there's you know, everyone has a day when it's like, you know, what, I deserve better than this, you know, And I say this quite a bit, you know, most of the time it's off the air, but you know, I say it all the time, like I don't want to die on a sidewalk. I don't want that to be my story. And I get death threats for doing

this show all the time. People just pretty upset with me for doing this and saying these things. But you know, this is my path. I have to walk this path now, and I have to say these things. And I do recognize that it's okay to demand respect, it's okay to give respect and expect it in return, but it's also it has to be a two way street. And now that we have defendedative evidence of exactly what's going on here we can start to you know, do.

the province of Saskatchewan. The burial site, the largest one to date, was uncovered only weeks after the remains of two hundred and fifteen children were found in unmarked graves on the grounds of another former church run school for Indigenous students in British Columbia. The discoveries have jolted a nation grappling with the generations of widespread and systematic abuse for Indigenous people, many of whom are survivors of the

boarding schools. For decades, they suggested through their oral histories that thousands of children disappeared from the schools, but they were often met with skepticism the relevations. The revelations of two unmarked grave sites are another seting reminder of this

traumatic period in history. These recent unearthings of remains in Canada have reverberated globally, including in the US, where this week the Interior Secretary said the country would search federal boarding schools for possible burial sites as well of Native American children, hundreds of thousands of them were forcibly taken from their communities to be culturally assimilated in.

Indian School That's what they used to call it. And in the late nineties, I want to say, I remember hearing stories of the cruelty that took place in that school in the early nineteen hundreds and in the a and their efforts to assimilate the Native children and to strip them of their culture, and you know, all these sorts of things and the abuse that took place there. And I'm not an expert, so I will not speak

on that. But you know, if you're listening to my voice and you're familiar with this story or any other stories, again, this space is your space too, and you're welcome to reach out to us and we'll you know, these stories need to be told and we need to discuss them so that we can all move forward together. But the reason that the story in Canada stood out to me is because I knew that story from growing up in Phoenix, Arizona,

and I went to school on Indian School Road. I went to Central High School, shot out the Bobcats, and I went to uh Osborne Middle School. So that was, you know, the road I took to get to school when I was in middle school, and you know, learning about the horrors that took place in that school and then now it's a dilapidated bu building and they didn't even turn it into a museum. It's just they can't tear it down. I don't think they built. They build

a park around it, but it's just in decay. It's this story from Canada really resonated with me because I think that that reflects kind of what was going on in the world, you know, with respect to native populations. And you know, I I recognize that, you know, the Native story is a different story. My grandmother was a Native American woman, uh. And you know, she often did not tell us stories about growing up because she really didn't like her life until she got older, and she

she told me that. And I so a lot of that stuff is lost now that we've buried her. But I I do feel connected to these stories, and I I do feel like it's necessary to talk about them. My bad I ate up all that time. Do you want to hear your reaction.

or believe the way you do. It's pretty disgusting. And I'll kind of leave it there that hearing those words is the part, you know, being raised by a Baptist minister myself, you know that definitely maybe shouldn't have caught me off guard, just based on some of the history,

but definitely did. And like you said before, we do stand in solidarity not just with our Aboriginal brothers and sisters, but people all over this country and all over the world who have been marginalized, abused, torn down, segregated against.

of both of those stories right there. And I have a connection to the island of course, and to you know, my family in Florida. So but you know, for what we do, I'm very happy that we get to do it, and I'm very happy that you take the time out of your day to listen to our show. And I think that you know, you know, while we're on this subject of you know, Native children and kind of the history, I know that there's a lot of people who really

don't like looking back at the past. You know, we've talked, we talk quite a bit about you know, critical race theory and you know, all these sorts of things. I recognize that, you know, it's uncomfortable, but I also recognize that the only way that we heal is if we acknowledge what's happened and we start trying to piece together a path forward that honors the experience that we've been through. So with that said, I think we're gonna leave it right there. So once again, thank you for tuning in

the civic ccipher. I'm your host, Rams this's job.