Welcome to another episode of Civic Zacher. I'm your host, ramses Jah.
I'm also your host, but not ramses Jah. He calls me q Stella, calls me q dirty. That's the story I'll tell another day.
I like that we are back to broadcast the balance and to defend the discourse. And as you know, we've had an interesting week, an interesting couple of weeks, but this past week has been more of the same. Unfortunately and per usual. We're here to make heads and tails of it the best we can. Stick around. We have a lot in store for you today. We're of course, of course going to talk about Jalen Walker, the young man who was shot who throw sixty times.
They attempted to shoot him ninety times.
Right. That was in Ohio and Akron, So obviously we're gonna have to break that down, address it and hopefully give you the tools that you'll need to have the conversations in your communities that we need to have. You can take this information into spaces that we can't and hopefully we'll give you what you need to be the best ally that you can be. We're also going to talk about the latest mass shooting as of this episode, the recording of this episode in Chicago. It took place
on the fourth of July. And really we're going to deal with the juxtaposition of how these two people were pursued by law enforcement. It's heavy stuff, but you know, it's what we're here to do, is to talk about it. So stick around. We have that and a lot more in store for you. But let's start off on a positive note. Q, how do you feel about some ebony excellence?
You know how I feel about some abny excellence. Indeed, absolutely needed and necessary. All right, let's talk about it. So a name you know very well, by the way, brought to you by Amadel Lockin. Katanji Brown Jackson. She has formally joined the Supreme Court. I'll read a bit from CNN. Justice Katanji Brown Jackson joined the Supreme Court on Thursday, making history as the first female African American justice, in beginning what could be a decade's long tenure.
After her confirmation. In a stirring speech in the South Lawn in April, Jackson noted that in her family quote, it took just one generation to go from segregation to the Supreme Court of the United States. It's an honor of a lifetime. Obviously we've talked about her being you know, recommended, confirmed, and then obviously we have to talk about her actually
being sworn in as a justice. This is a win for black girls everywhere, and if you're a longtime listener of this show, you know we we do our best to celebrate black girl magic as often as we can. So we salute you, Judge Katanji Brown Jackson for making history. And you know, obviously the Supreme Court is in the news for a lot of other things, and hopefully she'll bring some perspective. You know, we'll see, we'll see so much needed perspective.
I just wish there was more she could do. The way that the court is set up grossly imbalanced right now intentionally and they're doing a lot to set us back. Yeah, generations. It's really discouraging, but.
Again good to know that moving forward there will be someone who can at least affirm our humanity and the humanity of black women. If nothing more moving on Jalen Walker. Now, you know, we understand that some folks this might be the only news source that you get. Right. For many people, obviously you've heard the name Jalen Walker, but for those who haven't will paint the picture a bit for you.
Here a young man was fleeing police. He as he was fleeing, I believe the police were pursuing him for a I think it was a traffic infraction or a registration something like that. Nothing serious, right, same police. Obviously, as police do, they call more enforcement officers to help in the pursuit. They say that they heard a shot and noticed a muzzle flash outside the window when the when Jalen was driving on the freeway, which altered their rules of engagement, is what they say. They have a
I'd love to hear the reason why. I got a whole theory on this, which, by the way, if you want to hear my thoughts in depth, be sure to check out the Black Information Network Daily podcast. It's on iHeartRadio. I go into a lot of detail about this because this one was a little troubling for me. But long and short of it is, he's fleeing the police. He ends up, you know, stopping his car, jumping out of his car, and fleeing officers. I think early reports said
that he had a ski mask on. Officers thought that he was running toward them, and he ended up getting being shot by all the officers who were there pursuing him, and they let off ninety round sixty of them actually striking him, and then they went handcuffed him, and then his handcuffed body. I have a note here arrived at the medical examiner's office, according to the autopsy report that comes from CNN, So for those that don't know, that
is the story. There. Now some other details that I learned is that officers, you know, report that they discovered a handgun in the car. But in addition to the handgun, they discovered a wedding band. And according to the family, Jalen Walker had just lost his either fiance or wife something like that, and was not really in the best space as you can probably imagine, right. And what I don't want to do is give excuses for anybody. You'll never hear me give excuses or the police, but I
do play Devil's advocate because I've realized it's necessary. I don't want to give excuses for Jalen Walker, but I do believe that context is important, and once enough context is applied, we start to see that, hey, there is a system and it is kind of stacked against us. I don't need to do anyone any favors. I don't need to do ja any favors here because we will juxtapose this on the other part of the show, in the other half. But you'll see that the way that
black people are engaged is very different. And you know, one such person is able to explain their actions to their family and to the public and to a judge and have their day in court. One person lost their life in a field somewhere in Ohio. So I don't want this to sound like I'm doing anything like that, but it's important to know about that, that wedding ring thing. It's important to know that, you know, he had a gun in the car, he left it in the car as he fled. But you know, a lot of times
the story starts with, well why did he run? Now, remember his crime was some sort of traffic crime or you know, something like that. It wasn't. It wasn't like they were pursuing him as a suspect of a murder or robbery or something like that, you know what I mean.
I don't get why that would matter.
Well it doesn't. But I think it's important to note that a lot of times people think, well, he was running because he had done some thing, or you know, he was you know whatever. What I'm trying to establish is that it is very possible to just be afraid because they're police and they have guns. We've shared stories about how that looks. I know that I've shared a story. Remember the story when I was younger, when I was going to get and I woke up early for school.
It was some while ago when I was still in school. But I went to get an inhaler for my cousin Danny, and the police pulled me over after I left the ATM and they pulled me out of my car with a gun. And I had done nothing wrong. I had no idea what was going on, you know that sort of thing. It's one thing if I had actually done something and I was you know whatever.
But I still don't get why that would matter.
What I mean is that minor infractions can result in someone fleeing. Because after that happened to me, I became very afraid of the police. You know they say your life flashes before your eyes. That happened to me when they said lift up your hands, lift up your shirt, and turn around slowly, and as I rotated by the door, of my car at nineteen years old, and I saw all those guns pointed at me. It traumatized me, and I thought because they said to me, if you make
any sudden movements, we will kill you. They didn't say we will shoot you. If you make any sudden movements, we will kill you. I'm nineteen going to school and I'm like, yo, what's going on. So after that getting engaged by the police, it framed it like, Yo, these people are here to kill me, you understand. So even if there's a traffic infraction and I've done nothing wrong, I'm like, Lord, let this cut pass over me. Yeah.
I guess the reason why I keep asking why it matters is because we have examples where the perpetrator did do some awful crime and ran for that reason, right, I still got arrested and went to court. So I guess that's why I keep asking.
And I'm glad you're asking a question because that's important.
Why that matters, it's why we use that as these was if it means something, You're absolutely right, And I'm glad you said that because that's the same thing that I'm trying to establish now.
Him fleeing the police. You know, people well, why was he running? He wasn't guilty of something. Well, we see that the traffic crimes is not a thing about guilt or innocence. It's an infraction, right. But you know people will ask that question, certainly folks on the right, folks that if this conversation comes up in your life, you know they'll ask, well, he shouldn't have been running, if he didn't have anything, if he met he wasn't a
threat and whatever, he shouldn't have been running. Why do they always run? Right? But we as a people have been traumatized. I have been, as an individual, been traumatized by the police. The police are not the good guys in my story. The police are a part of society, some good, some bad. But I don't paint with broad strokes there because I've seen the police do awful things to people. So I saw it since I was little.
The LAPD do really mean things to people and take stuff from take them money, and then send them on their way, no rest, no nothing, no paperwork, just bullies. Saw it happen, you know what I mean. And it's happened other times in my life too. Now, if you have had this sort of experience and then you see those lights behind you, you might know, Okay, well I shoot, I have a gun in the car or whatever. If I pull over, that might be the end of it. It could be your gun. It could not be your gun.
But that's a scary predicament to be in. Shoot I switch lanes without a signal, but I have my gun here. I could be the most legal person in the world, upstanding. We've seen it happen many times, the panic, Okay, we'll shoot if I pull over. There's one hundred chance that these people are going to flip out when they find out I have a weapon, and they will be justified
in doing whatever they are going to do. And what happens when you are confronted with that, those circumstances and that kind of adrenaline rush that comes over you when you realize that your life might be in danger. It's a nervous system response. It's called fight or flight. We talk about that on the show. Some people choose to all right, well, if this is my moment, then I'm going to go down fighting, and some people say, I
don't want this to be my moment. I'm going to try to get away from this as much as possible. Any creature with consciousness and a nervous system has that capability. Right. This is how we've managed to survive as different species, and certainly as human beings have managed to survive. So why would you run? Well, there's a lot of trauma, there, a lot of reason to be afraid. So some people ask, well, why does he have a gun? It's not illegal to
have a gun? Qu you have guns, multiple not illegal? Right? Who told you to get the guns? An officer of the law? How about that? Right now? You recognize that if an officer of the law pulled you over and you happen to have a gun with you in the car, the optics of the narrative are quite different.
Right, Which is which is why I was so unequipped when the gentleman attempted to kidnap my son fear of being pulled over while carrying the gun that the officer suggested I purchased real quick.
I want to establish this again for those that don't know. In a recent episode, Q detailed and attempted kidnapping of his son in front of a grocery store. We we both live in Arizona, so we're near the border, and there's been a string of kidnappings I believe. I mean, you could explain a little bit better, and I can. Yeah.
I mean, even after I filed a police report to which there was no investigation, I went back to the scene, I went back to that grocery store, and as I'm explaining to the manager what happened, another family described the exact same situation and described the exact same people in the exact same car, neither of which anything was done about.
Now, that would have been in a time when having maybe having your gun and being able to protect your family might have been the right move for you.
Yeah, except I'm terrified to carry the weapon that I'm allowed to own. How about because I don't want to die? There you go, and why don't Who would be the biggest threat to you if you had a gun on your person. The City of Mesa police departments.
There is where I live. So this is our reality, barring listen, it doesn't even matter what the numbers are. I'm not even go to numbers. This is our perceived reality. So this is our reality for all intents and purposes. Right, So, if Jalen has a gun in his car, legally or illegally, a lot of Black people live in parts of the country that are very rough, but not because of anything that black folks have done. We outline all of the systemic issues that have a direct influence on how Black
people end up more often in impoverished circumstances. Housing discrimination is one redlining, you know. Disenfranchised voting is another one. You know, the war on drugs. Environmental racism is another one. You know, the the unfair allotment of the GI Bill that really impacted the wealth in this country. Over policing,
you know, judiciary, sentencing, and on and on. That list goes systemic issues that create things like ghettos that create, you know, impoverished circumstances for one group of people specifically right, and those environments that that one group of people or sometimes two groups of people. Because our Hispanic or otherwise Latin brothers and sisters are often neighbors with us in these communities melanated more often than not. And I'm not
I'm not forgetting our indigenous brothers and sisters. I'm not. I'm not, you know, but you know, in terms of a huge chunk of the population black and brown, that's really what we're talking about here. I'm not trying to overlook anyone. But those circumstances are very, very rough. You know, there's not enough. There's economic inequality, which is often the basis more often than not the majority of the time, it's economic inequality that is the basis for crimes in
these communities. It's the poverty itself that is the catalyst for these crimes. And when there's crime in the community, a lot of people feel like they need to protect themselves from that crime. And a lot of people feel like, well, if I can have a gun, this country allows me
the right to have a gun and protect myself. Or even if that's not their thinking, if the other people have a gun that are in this community and they're robbing and taking and whatever because they're trying to figure out how they're going to feed their babies or whatever it is, you know, I need to have one too because I have to protect my interests as well.
So have an exact explanation that was given to me. There you go, there are guns, so you should have one, Like no one should have one, but since everyone else has one, you probably should.
Now I personally, I must say, I feel like that's the little bit of fear mongering. That the country has done to the population or I don't want to say the country, but really gun people, and they've really created a reality because that is true to you. You're right, they've created a reality out of stoking people's fears and playing to people's ignorance because most people, at least at one point time didn't have guns. I still believe most
people don't have guns. Right now, I read a statistic that a very small amount of the population actually does own guns.
And just are more guns than people.
Right But where we live in the American Southwest, where it's the wild West, very much still.
Well, we have a government that's trying desperately to turn the entire country into the wild West. So we're relaxing gun laws, relaxing the protection, relaxing the background checks, relaxing the red tape you have to go through to carry. As we're relaxing all these things making it easier to get a gun. And the idea of gun control is being laughed at by the people who we vote for to protect us. But it's another conversation for another show.
Well, you start to see how the circumstances might compel a person to own a gun, So why did he have a gun? I think that there's this strange phenomenon that happens in this country, whereas if you have a gun, if you're a man with a gun, right, it's your second Amendment, right, God and guns, and George Washington, of course I have I have two guns. Right. But if you're a black man and you have a gun, then all of a sudden you're criminals somehow, right, black men
and guns is criminal. But you know, white men and gun is that's America textbook. So we need to rethink that as well. But you know, he has a gun. And in terms of the shot fired on the freeway, if in fact that's what that was, you know, but let's for the sake of argument say that it was. I think when you're driving on the freeway, the speed can kill you. I know a thing or two about speed. Now, shoot, you got a couple of fast cars, so I know you know about speed too. The speed will kill you.
So if you're looking around, you know, that's really where you're not running away from someone. If you are set on dying, you know what I mean, if you're suicidal, right, So if you're speeding, it's very difficult to get a shot off, especially a shot in the opposite direction from where you're going. You know. But let's say, for instance, he was suicidal in a dark place, you know, whatever he has every there's everything here that points to the
fact that that's really a possibility. You know, he left the ring in the car, that's a statement in and of itself. The band, the wedding band, he left it in the car with the gun and the clip outside of the gun. Right, So if that shot goes off, okay, is that shot pointed at anyone? I'm not saying the police shouldn't be afraid for their life, get it. You know, it's a tough job, a tough situation to being Hang on me, let me say it. Don't forget it though
I want to hear it. But was that shot for himself? Was that shot an accident? Was he trying to take the you know what I mean? Just as simple? You know, who knows? Right? I get that the police, if they feel like they heard a shot, they have to engage a different way. But I think that the way that we're engaging, it's almost the same thing I say every show. The way that we're engaging doesn't account for the fact that human beings deserve the right to live. Right, The
ready assumption is that they're trying to kill me. My job is to catch them, and if they're trying to kill me, I'm gonna kill them. And that we've seen obviously more often than not, that that's not the case at all. Now go ahead, please, It's.
Just not how they feel and we know better. And this effort made by us to extend some benefit of the doubt that's not deserved. Right, the idea that the gun shot made them afraid so they pursued different It didn't, and they.
Didn't they were pursuing that way.
Anyway, These gentlemen with assault rifles who are shooting people when the police arrive are not killed. They're not pursued in this way. They're not shot at ninety times. That's a great point, Like we we go out of our way to be fair, for what who are we creating this facade of benefit of the doubt? For we have so much evidence to the contrary. It's exhausting for us to keep trying to be the ones to be fair in the way that we talk about things that are
so blatantly not fair. Right, The officers in Texas arrived while this young man was killing people. They heard it, they witnessed it, they were there. He was still arrested without harm, scratch or bruise. While was this young man who had a gun, whether he fired it or not, shot at ninety times while running away. The answer is incredibly obvious. But when we say it, it's received. When we say it's received different than as just blatant factual truth, Well said,