Civic Cipher 070222 Interacting with Listeners who Disagree with Us (Part 2)

and vote. You're going to have to vote the people in your local government and in your national government who will just saying just saying, we will advocate for you for those rights. And unless you do that, I don't know that we'll see a change. You got to get in the mix, that's all I gotta say.

and vote in your general elections. That is what we need to do now, up and down the ballot. That means, if you vote Democrat, make sure you vote all the way down Democrat. Now we have to discuss now a letter from a listener. So que had a strong reaction when we first got this letter, or when you when you when you first read my response to the letter, So let's talk let's talk about that a little bit.

being insightful. But it came from a place that sometimes catches me a bit off guard, because the really strange thing about our show is, if you've listened to more than one episode, you realize that I picked fun at Ramses for being hopelessly and optimistically naive. He has a point of view that really sees us reaching this utopia, sees us reaching this place where we are all seen as equal and we are all treated as equal, and I think that that's a bit unrealistic just because of

the thousands of years of evidence that I have. I'm strange that way, and in cases where people because I got a DM the other day that I didn't share with my colleagues here at the show, a you know, decade long friend of mine pushing back on me being upset about, you know, what just transpired in our Supreme Court.

And this person dove in the same way that most dms that I get when it comes to me being outspoken about politics, they kind of all start the same way, well Trump, Like they start right off with their defense of Donald Trump in particular, And I've often argued that I don't think these people are defending him. I think they're defending themselves. I think it's something that they see something of themselves that they see in him and in that party that they feel like, well, I'm a decent person,

so they must be. And I think that that's what they're defending, because he's kind of indefensible, Like, I don't understand how you've been paying attention for five minutes and could reach out to me specifically in defense of Donald Trump on any topic. So anytime if somebody does it, I almost stopped listening. Yeah, And in the same way, if this wasn't from you, I wouldn't have finished reading

this letter. As soon as you give me some statistics about how much better life was for black people under Donald Trump, I don't even want to hear or read

what you're talking about anymore. Sure, So, I'm so glad that you received this letter and not me, because it wouldn't have gotten not just the response it deserved, because he deserved a well thought out, thoughtful, empathetic response, but so did we, so did people who are on the same side of it as you, right, because it could be a bit of an echo chamber if I respond angry and upset and what are you talking about?

And that's okay because somebody has to say it. And we are here. So the universe or God or whatever it is that you believe in, not even what we believe in. Whatever you believe in has kind of ordered our steps and here we are, and it does get frustrating. It is difficult, and it is challenging because we have

to kind of walk in tiptoe around certain issues. But in this in doing it this way, I believe that we show the most kindness and I think that we have to be examples of what we're hoping for other people to be right. It's a strategy. It sounds I get how I I know how I sound. I saw your crazy person, But.

from Philip. We won't share his last name because we want to make sure he stays private, but but yeah, so Ramses, I heard your show advertised while listening to Clay and Buck. I listened to at least one episode a week. While you have a great radio voice, I appreciate that I am finding it harder to stay a listener as most of what I hear is Trump bashing and the like. For instance, black unemployment was very low

under President Trump. I can tell you know this, but you don't share it with when the but you don't share it when the data applies to your conversation. I can also hear it in your voice that you know what a real insurrection is versus a riot, and again misleading your audience. I don't understand the need to hide or slant the truth. I don't know your Phoenix work, only what I hear on bi IN. For those who

don't know, bi IN stands for Black Information Network. This is where my daily podcast lies, and you're more than welcome and check that out. I stand by every word

over there as well. To me, it is black people like you who can share with others the achievements you have had that, while not perfect and far better than other places, this country has allowed you to work hard and get to the point where you are, including national listenership, including national listenership, and even when you have had a good idea that others don't see, you still persevere forward. I will never know what it is like to live

in your shoes. That's that's empathy. That's the beginnings of empathy. This is why he deserved a response, a good respect game, minimum and listen. I call this man my brother, and I stand by that. Okay, I will never know what it's like to live in your shoes. That's that's accounting for the fact that there's a gap. You know, I don't see it from your perspective, but I realize that I can't see it from sure, I don't I would never know what it's like to live in your shoes

as I am just a nobody. I don't think that's true. I think definitely. As I am just a nobody and you are a radio and TV guy who has had a decent amount of success, you could write a book success while being black. Thank you. Maybe I will write that book one day. Anyway, back to your bi in show, I have decided to stop listening to the Weekly Recap. I can't take the negativity. I will for now listen

to some of your other daily shows. While a weekly black conservative guest on your bi in show would be a welcome edition and would give your audience a wider spek victrum to think about. You ultimately have to decide what is better, what is best for drawing people like me in and converting them from once a week listener to daily listener. This wasn't supposed to be this long. Thanks for listening, Philip. Now let me say this. Let

me say this, this is important. I got it in my inbox, you know, so I was the person that got it. And I one of the things Philip and everyone else listening, one of the things that I've had to live through to learn is that there is a responsibility that comes with this. Before doing this show, I would just say what I would say. That would be the end of it. I'm the supreme ruler and commander

in my life and of course of my timeline. My block button works great, and I don't have to hear none of that stuff, right, But when I'm talking, it's in front of a microphone, and I have a satellite dish, and it goes to a whole city. And now it goes to a bunch of cities around a whole country, the third largest country on Earth. This is so there's

a responsibility that comes with that. And maybe there's just a difference of opinion, you know, But my opinion goes further, and other people I have to account for the fact that they, as he mentioned, cannot know what a separate reality is like, right, And so I believe that he approached this with kindness even if he hadn't. I realize

there's an opportunity here to talk to a human being. Okay, if I change the impression for one human being or you know, scores of human beings with this microphone, then this is the path that I'm on, and that's my objective. Right. But but I didn't feel that he was being unkind. If he was, I wouldn't have answered in kind. But he wasn't being unkind. So there's no way that I would even conceive of being unkind. I wouldn't ignore it

because it was there's some dignity here. He stands on an opinion that I do not believe to be true a series of them, right, But he's a valid person with a valid path through life. It's different from mine and my job as a human and as a person with this platform is to share with him and hopefully we can find some common ground. And obviously I would think he would end up more on my side of things,

but his perspective is necessary for me. I need to know this because I need to know who I'm talking to, potentially because there's more opportunity here than talking with people that agree with me one. So my response, Philip, I want to start by saying that I truly appreciate your feedback. It was capital Truly, I truly appreciate your feedback, my brother. I'm not perfect, and I doubt I'll ever get there, but it seems as though I have an opportunity to share my thoughts, and so I try to be as

responsible as I know how. I never expected to do political commentary since my background has always been in hip hop broadcasting, but here I am learning as I go. With that said, feedback like this is very important for me. I'm not sure what your beliefs are, but assuming that you are a Trump supporting conservative, if so, you are still my brother, and I want what's best for you too. I try not to be unfair, and I often acknowledge

my bias, but the spirit in which I do. My show is oriented around forging a path forward based in fellowship, empathy, and understanding. I'm not a fan of Donald Trump. I learned many years before he decided to run for the presidency about some of the racist things said and done by him and his father in New York City. Afterwards, the way he engaged Barack Obama further left a bad impression, since he insisted that he was an illegitimate president who

was foreign born. The receipts for Donald Trump go on forever, from the P word grabbing to the s whole countries, to the way he emboldened the ugliest parts of America, to everything about his proposed monument to racism, his border wall. The man could have all the best numbers in history, but he made many folks who don't look like him feel very unsafe for a very long time. Having to carry that feeling for four years was a weight that I wouldn't wish on anyone. With that said, numbers are

all in how you look at them. Was Donald Trump specifically to blame for black unemployment rates? My view is that many on the rights say so, but many others point to other factors. Unfortunately, I don't believe that Donald Trump had anyone but himself in mind as he enacted many of his policies. There are lots of shows who celebrate the man, but I could never in good conscience give him even the benefit of the doubt. As far as the insurrection, it is defined as a violent uprising

against the government. A riot is a violent disturbance of the peace by a crowd. In my belief, the events of January sixth qualified as both. After seeing the January sixth hearings, I have no doubt that the events happened as a direct result of Donald Trump's instructions, coaxing, and influence. The January sixth Committee has made this point for the American people, and this comes from a much higher level than my show. As a result, I believe this is

simply a matter of fact. I have not slanted or hidden the truth. It is public record. As far as the negativity that you hear on my VII in show, I will say that negativity is part and parcel to black life in America. There is a shared trauma that I try to process by discussing it and hoping that a path forward it will reveal itself. In conversations with informed and empowered people. Thanks again, doctor Westenburg for being here. But to pretend that every facet of black life is

positive would be to mislead my audience. We've established that it is not my attempt to do that. Furthermore, I don't think it would resonate, and it would seem inauthentic. Beyond that, your words are kind and thoughtful. Yes, I am very fortunate, but many folks who look like me are not so fortunate. This is why I am so committed to being responsible with this opportunity and platform. Again,

I appreciate your message and your advice. I have considered bringing on some conservative voices, as it brings some balance to the conversation, but so far it's been a matter of deciding if people need more bickering, or if people need to be informed in a way that creates a bit more empathy and provide some instructional framework so that our tomorrows might be a bit better than our today's. I don't have all of the right answers, but for you to even listen to these shows means a lot

to me. Almost every conservative that I know only gets their news from Fox News or else from newer, less reputable and further right leaning sources. Again, you taking the time to listen matters. I want a better world for you too. Maybe these aren't the things that I can move on, but now I know there is a listener out there who is monitoring how fair things sound. Perhaps that will impact the tone of the shows for the better. I appreciate a long letter. I would appreciate more letters

from you. I will continue to do my best, Philip in solidarity Ramses. So it's important to say that because I recognize that a lot of people, maybe not a lot, but there are some people out there who might feel the way that Philip feels. And Philip articulated it in a way and sent it over, which meant that he took time out of his day to share some thoughts with us. That's not nothing. Tens of millions of people qualify as a lot. You can say that you gotta

you don't have to soften it. Fifty sixty million people feel that way, sure, but you know, to feel that way about our show and to share it with us, you know what I mean? Again, there's not often times enough in the way of content with responses like this for us to formulate a response that is as significant as this one. But I think that in this moment, what I would like to do is reaffirm our commitment

to broadcasting the balance and defending the discourse. We make a black show that is approachable by non black people. We want to create better allies. We want to This show is on in many hip hop stations in many cities around this country, and all of those hip hop stations have a majority non black listenership. We learned from the protests in twenty twenty that there are people who don't look like us who want to support us. Radical

love for justice means by any means with love. And I know that a lot of this stuff sounds super.

its time and the sun. And if you feel the same way as Philip, I hope that I've given you something. If you know people in your life that feel the way that Philip feels, hopefully I've given you something here. I know that you have a couple of more things that you wanted to contribute. I mean, not really, there's a you spoke that we need that perspective. I don't think that perspective is nuanced. You didn't give us something

kind and thoughtful and not meaning angry. I'll give him that, but not nuanced.

to learn from us. Unfortunately, it's time to move on, so let's get into the Way Black History Fact. This is a producer's note from Maggie aka Maggie Noe. School's out are getting ready for the summer. When it comes to each one, teaching one, seeing a new place, space, and meeting new people helps us to better understand one another and continue to build for the greater, emphasizing our interconnectedness and abilities to flourish and brother and sisterhood, love

and community. Now Today's Way Black History Fact comes from Town and Country Magazine. The title is Meet the original Black travel Influencer. Starting in the nineteen fifties, Jet Magazines longtime society editor Jerry Major wrote dispatches from glamorous locales around the globe. Her not so secret plan get her African American readers to come join the fun. Preparing for an international trip was a familiar routine for Jerry Major.

She had crisscrossed the Atlantic so many times that her friends and colleagues had taken to calling her Jerry go Round. But on one particular spring day in nineteen fifty three, she was especially in her element. She wrote, along she wore a long sleeve black dressed, white gloves and on trend black pillbox pillock's hat as she strode to Gay nine at New York's International Airport. Major was headed to London to cover the coronation of Queen Elizabeth II for

Jet Magazine, where she worked as the society editor. The agent handed her a ticket met that moment, one of Major's companions snapped a picture. That image, which ran a few weeks later in Jet, would become a kind of calling card for Major on her future adventurous adventures, and a beacon to growing, a beacon to a growing fan base of similarly intrepid African American travelers for whom Major had become an inspiration. The coronation was a plumb assignment

for journalist lucky enough to receive press credentials. From the British government. Back then, as now, the world was obsessed with royal news, but for Major it was an opportunity to focus on black travelers who attended the event. Quote there were twenty West African chiefs and tribal officials watching the ceremonies. In quote she recalled in her book Black

Society had been in. Prince and his companion from the Gold Coast stopped London traffic and their eye catching native dress with umbrellas that later created a truly international atmosphere at the Queen's Garden party. Major would pay special attention to the comings and goings of prominent African Americans. Quote. Two members of Harlem's Smart brigetts Ida may King and Alberta Osborne, arrived in London by the ss Vernum for the coronation weekend and a tour of France and Italy.

Along with their itineraries, she described their social calendars. Doctor Gertrude Curtis thomasin of Los Angeles came in from Paris the day after the coronation. She said she hates crowds. Her hostess was Adell Hall, who was appearing at the Seville Theater in Love from Judy. The doctor was loaded down with fine leather goods which she had picked up

in Italy. African Americans began traveling internationally in earnest after World War Two, some inspired by descriptions from returning gis of less segregated conditions in European capitals, but there were other motivations, including the combination of a constant fear of racial aggression at home, which pushed African Americans across national borders, and the poll of European nations that were actively encouraging black travelers to visit, believing that the tourism revenue would

help me build their war ravaged cities. Quote. For the small select group that did not have the means to indulge in leisure, the international space was most appealing because it was the only place where they felt they could truly be a leisured body, said Wretch Rutgers University history professor Tiffany MGill in a recent conversation. Quote it started with a wave of black women in the thirties who

could use their occupations to permit travel end Quote. Dancers like Josephine Baker and aid A bricktop Smith, and visual artists such as Augustus Savage used their arts as a means to see the world. Others, like Juanita Harrison, found alternative ways to make it happen. She started traveling abroad when she was thirteen, hiring herself as a maid and doing other odd jobs to cover her expenses. She chronicled her expenses in a nineteen thirty six memoir, My Great, Wide,

Beautiful World. Major took most of her early trips by herself, which presented its own sort of challenges. As a woman of fair complexion, she could pass for Latin American or South Asian. Black Americans often used a veil of passing to guard their safety and to increase their mobility. Steamships were Major's primary mode of transport during those first adventures, and two factors in black women's ability to travel on them.

With the types of ship in which country's laws govern the ship's company quote, they had these very arbitrary segregation laws, and quote Bill said, quote it created a great deal of uncertainty around whether you would even be able to purchase a ticket and gain passage, and quote, it was also uncertain how you'd be treated on board. Quote. A lot of this had to do with who was on board if the white folks would complain about black people

being there. Unquote, Major did not often address these disparities in our writing. Quote I think that was part of her mystique. And quote Bill said her goal was to show that it was possible for black women to travel. Now, I want to just add this that our producer is a big fan of traveling, and so this obviously is very meaningful for personal reasons, but also we have to begin to understand sort of the origins of black women

in media and black women's mobility in this country. And so not only does this work as far as travel is concerned, but it also works as far as sort of the origins and the first movers and the people who have really kind of paved the way for a lot of what we see in today's society. So I'm grateful that we had a chance to share this story today, And of course I'm grateful to you, doctor Westenberger, coming

up and hanging out with us. I feel like you might want to get something else off before you get out of here. We've got about a minute left, so now's the time.

the difference between insurrection and a riot. Sure, I thought that was very crucial. But you all make a wonderful duo, make a wonderful duo, and you need both of those well.

sure to donate if you can. Maggie wanted us to put our cash up in here, so it's at Civic Cipher, but it's also on the website, so there it's really easy. Also, make sure to follow us on all social media. We're at Civic Cipher once again, and I just want to say thank you to everyone that's kind of riding this way with us. This is amazing, this is wonderful and hopefully we're doing right by you. So until next week, y'all.