Welcome to another episode of Civic Sipher. I'm your host, ramses Jah.
I'll go by the name q Ward. The Q is for Quenton, not Quentin. That's important.
You got to make sure they know that indeed, and we are backup in you Onemogain this week. We have some more good news, but you're gonna have to stick around for it. Stay tuned because in the latter part of the show, we are going to be talking about what is known as the Crown Act. Basically, the House passed a piece of legislation. I was getting this word mixed up. Legislation I believe is the right way to say it that protects people with ethnic hairstyles. I'll have
a lot to say about that, obviously. Well this is radio, so you don't know how my hair looks, but I have a lot of hair and yeah, but that's some good news and it doesn't involve people getting hurt or dying, and so I'm very much looking forward to the second part of the show. The first part of the show, however, is business as usual. We will be talking about traffic stops and then we have a couple of cases specifically that we're going to discuss as well as share some
personal experiences. But you know, there are a lot of people who don't realize just how much traffic stops plague black people and black communities. And this is the place where we have to talk about it. We have to share that information so that people understand what it's like and that perhaps our traffic stops aren't as cut and dry as yours may be. But first order of business, like we always do at this time, it is to talk about some ebony X. How does that sound cute?
I think we shall talk about some ebny excellence given to the people.
Boom, all right. So Elijah Presley Baton Rouge is the youngest full ride scholarship recipient from Southern University. He's just fourteen years old. He is a child prodigy, striving to learn all that he can while preparing for his last few semesters at the HBCUs. A quote from him says, you have to have a mindset to actually know. Hey, I have to learn this. My life depends on it. This is what he told ABC News again quote act like your life depends on it, because it does. When
you learn, you increase your life. He is a double major in physics and chemical engineering. Presley's pursuits transcend his academic career. He's hosted a weekly radio show, been featured in various national outlets, including a Cartoon Network special. He's a published author of two books, A Prodigy, My Secrets and Mission Christian God's First, God's Got First Coloring Book Edition. Additionally, while breaking records and making history, the teenager is an
inventor at heart. He's already applied for more than FI pattents for his inventions. As he rises to the occasion, Presily is more focused on changing lives. This comes to us from Black Enterprise dot com. And you know, sometimes we talk about titans of industry. Sometimes we talk about inventors, we talk about business people, we talk about black girl magic. You know, that's what Ebony Excellence is all about. But
I think this is our first child prodigy. You know, we of course we discuss famous people as athletes and so forth, but this kind of felt appropriate, and believe it or not, we kind of had to wait on this one because we had a lot to choose from. So once again, big shout out to Elijah Presley of Baton Rouge. You are a shining example of Ebony excellence, and we are grateful to have you as a part
of our show today. Now, traffic stops, all right, So this comes from the Association for Psychological Science, and of course you can look that up if you so choose to verify these statistics. Traffic stops, which happen approximately fifty thousand times each day in the United States, are the most common interaction between law enforcement and the public. K. You ever been pulled over by the police.
I've been pulled over a few times. Yeah, couple, couple, two, three times?
Okay, it's safe to say nobody likes getting pulled over slightly inconvenient.
It's inconvenient at best.
Yeah, yeah, okay, I'll continue. All other factors being equal, however, black drivers are more likely than white drivers to be stopped by police. Q. Is that new news to you?
Absolutely?
So you already knew that.
I did. I've already lived that.
Is it perhaps the case that you already knew that because you live a black life?
Unfortunately, yes, Well.
As it turns out, not everyone lives a black life, and so that statistic might be news to some folks. Again, this is the place where we share it. I'll continue. Two independent articles published in the Journal of Psychological Science, shed new light on how country wide attitudes toward race correlate with local policing. Both papers reveal that the greater the racial prejudice against black people within a county, the more often state troopers tend to stop black drivers relative
to white drivers. Q. Have you ever been pulled over in a county by a state trooper?
Unfortunately I have. And in one of those cases, my partner brother, producer and co host Ramsay's Jah was with me. I was with you, yes, sir, I was with you. Yes.
And that was in Mississippi at night, after we've.
Driven by several hundred Confederate flags.
Ooh, that was a tense moment. Indeed, now you remember how I was behaving, So you know, we might have to tell a little bit of that story again, but I'll continue for now. In an accompanying commentary on the two papers, lead author Keith Paine, a researcher at the University of North Carolina, noted, quote, these findings are part of a larger trend in many studies in recent years showing that regional differences in measures of race bias are
associated with important real life disparities. Has long been predicted that such associations would be expected based on small scale laboratory experiments. It is both validating for theories of modern prejudice and concerning for society that those predictions are being born out. Another quote, We should bear in mind that racial discrimination and inequality are pervasive cultural problems, not a handful of weird outliers that only pop up this in
this or that corner of the country. Said extra. If racial attitudes really are the reason for the disparities we see, it would take large scale changes in cultural attitudes and norms to shift them in a matter that would impact disparities as well. In addition to considering the psychology and behaviors of individual officers, policymakers and the public should consider whether or how norms and institutional practices shape police officers' behavior.
All right now, this is about getting pulled over, This is about traffic stops right now. A lot, I'd say, the majority of the stories that we discuss here on Civic Cipher, and perhaps even you know, I'd say at least half, maybe even the majority of stories that are shared with respect to black people interacting with police, you know, in the national news arena, have to do with traffic stops. Furthermore, as the article states, it's true not just for non
black people, but for black people as well. Perhaps the only interaction that many of us will have with police in a given year or two three year period is in a traffic stop. Most people don't have police come to their house. Most people don't, you know, get hemmed up by the police at the mall or in the
parking lot. You know, usually they're pulling you over. And as we've discussed on the show, just to give you a statistic here, for many years marijuana was illegal, and in some places of the country tree is still illegal. But this kind of shows you the way policing is done, in how traffic stops can impact poor communities. And today
we're talking about black communities. I'll continue, if police are heavily posted in black neighborhoods, they are going to more than likely pull over more black drivers.
Right.
If black people and white people use marijuana at roughly the same rates, And there are twenty five police cars in the black neighborhood and the black part of town, Anytown, USA, and there are six police cars in the white neighborhood. Right, where do you think you're going to get the bulk of marijuana arrests, right, If black and white people use it approximately the same rate, you know, where are you going to get the bulk of the arrests?
Go ahead, and it's important to point out that black and white people using marijuana at the same rate still equals a much larger number of white people using marijuana because we are such a we are a much smaller percentage of the population. Sure, so the same rate means that numbers wise, it's not even.
Close, right exactly. So what happens is, you know, there was this we did an episode a few months ago where we discussed how numbers are fudged, and you know, usually it's right, you know, conservatives, right wing conservatives that do their best to suggest that black people commit most of the crimes, right, And that's a false narrative. But what perhaps may be true is that black people are arrested more often than non black people. And we're pointing
at perhaps the reason why. Right now, we're just talking about traffic stops here, but you know, traffic stops is sort of the precursor to getting your vehicle searched, and if you are going about your business doing whatever it is that you do, regardless of whatever color you are, again getting pulled over. It's more likely to happen if you're black, right, But what if it goes beyond just an arrest, you know, a civil violation? What if it goes beyond that? I'll share a story. This comes from
the Washington Post. DELAYE. Gordon, a door dash driver, was a few hundred yards from his delivery destination when a police officer passed him hook do you turn and pulled him over for speeding? You remember the story? Qu you sent me the video, Yes, sir. On the side of the road in Collegedale, Tennessee, Gordon politely and repeatedly asked to speak to the officer Supervisor, Gordon's attorney says, but the situation escalated as the police officer demanded that Gordon
get out of the car, while Gordon refused. A video of the March tenth incident shows get out the police officer ordered, pointing a taser at Gordon. According to the video, the officer, whom the College Dale Police Department has not identified, accused Gordon of not providing his identification. The video shows, Sir, I feel uncomfortable Gordon said, please get your supervisor. The officer then tried to pull Gordon out of the car. When Gordon did not comply, the officer pulled out his
taser again. A moment later, video shows the officer used the taser on Gordon, who screamed in agony. And then we get a video right now says that the officer pulled him over for speeding.
Right.
That may be accurate. Right, I'm not trying to say that I've never sped before. God knows, I have a very fast car. You have a very fast car. You have a couple of them. So that's the thing. But so is driving while black. If you haven't heard of it, this is a term that's been around. I first heard it in the nineties. I'm old enough to have heard
it back then. Driving while black is the suggestion is that you were pulled over because you were black, harassed more than an officer would harass another person because you were black, perhaps had your vehicle searched because you were black. And if you make it home, you're lucky without being entered into the system or roughed up or whatever. Now I'm from La the LAPD we're known for that in the nineties, you know, beating people up, robbing people, all
this sort of stuff. Haven't lived in LA in sometime, so I don't want to speak on anything that may have happened or in changes that may have happened. But I suspect that that culture is a slow changing culture. But this is the way I remember driving while black. So for me and many black people looking at okay, speeding, m all right, maybe you know, we tend to look
at things like that because we live these lives. In fact, you I might want you to jump in and tell that story, but you know what happens if you're speeding and you're not black. Maybe you do and maybe I don't, but I'm going to guess. My guess is that if you ask for a supervisor, you don't get tased for it. There seems to be this idea that exists, not just with police, but with a lot of white straight.
Men.
Dare I say conservative men in this country that they are entitled to exert some degree of control over black bodies, over women's bodies, over pretty much anything. And if you don't do that, somehow their freedoms are being challenged or their authority is being challenged. It's like a bunch of cardmates. Right now. If it's a white man, you know, interacting with another white man, and they're both straight and you know, Christian, you know, there's no reason for them to have any
sort of conflict. They seem to get along just fine, Shake hands, go play golf. Right. This is not me picking on white men who are older and straight and Christian, because I have many friends who are I've grown up around these people. I love these people. But if we're painting with broad strokes, police officers tend to fit that description. And many of the stories that we've all seen as a country have shown that these people feel as though they can exert a degree of control over black bodies.
That's why this show exists because that's not right. I'll continue. We'll see if we have time to tell that story too, because I think it might be important. There's another story here. CNN recently unsealed video that shows a California man screaming he's black, by the way, screaming I can't breathe, before dying in police custody after a twenty twenty traffic stop. Federal judge has unsealed a video taken by the California
Highway Patrol. It captures the death of Edward Bronstein, thirty eight year old man who was in their custody following a March twenty twenty traffic stop at Los Angeles County. He is heard repeatedly telling the officers, I can't breathe while pinned on the ground. The CHP California Highway Patrol video was released for use in a federal wrongful death lawsuit brought by Bronstein's family against the State of California, CHP and individual officers who were on the scene when
Bronstein died. No officers have been charged in connection with his death. The decision to unseal the video Tuesday was made because the public's interest in the conduct of its peace officers outweighs other interests and any risk of particular, particularized harm. US Magistrate Judge John McDermott explained in this order, that's another BABA. US Magistrate Judge John McDermott. You know, usually the police officers have the judges in their pocket
and vice versa, you know what I mean. But this guy says, Nope, We're going to show this video to the people because they deserve to see it.
And I don't know if in their pocket is the right way to phrase that, because that makes it seem like they're being paid off in some way. They're just typically on the same team. Yeah, yeah, okay, and it's explicit, like if he said you were speeding, you were speeding. There's nothing for us to talk about, you know what I mean. Like, they're typically just on the same page. So when they're challenged in ways that should be standard operating procedure, it stands out to us because it's not.
They're typically in lockstep, same way, regardless of any overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
You know, I'm glad you said that, because a better way to say it is, you know, judges and really the whole criminal justice system, they all tend to have a shared idea of what justice is. Now, I'm not talking about the Constitution. I'm talking more about what to enforce, how to interpret you know, who it was written to protect,
like the more abstract components. Because if you just read the Constitution verbatim, you read the law of verbatim, you know they're pretty clear, right or you one would think, but they're not applied equally inequitably across all places in society, and this is another reason why this show exists. I'll continue the lawsuit filed in the Central District of California.
Alleged officers used quote excessive and objectively unreasonable force against Bronstein, who was quote unarmed, restrained, and surrounded by uniformed peace officers end quote. That excessive force was quote also a result of the neglig employment, negligent retention, and negligent supervision
of the officers by the CHP. Now getting pulled over, We've seen how the traffic stop can result in death, and that's a very scary thing for black people, right, but now you know the frequency is disproportionate if you're black. Now you understand the concept driving while black. If you wanted to learn more about it, please google it. And now feels like yet another opportunity for us to share our story. Now we just have a minute or so here to do it. But ch why don't you start
us off and tag me in. I'll jump in and round us out.
I'm going to tell the super condensed version of the story because we've shared it multiple times and as you can imagine, it's upsetting to relive and recount. Ramses and I were pulled over for what I wouldn't even consider misdemeanor. Right, there are on most highways in America indentations in the road to keep drivers from swerving off the road and
or falling asleep while driving. They make a vibration that you can feel and hear that will alert you that you're swerving or going across a lane and or off the side of the road if you were to doze off. I think that's the point of those things. On a late night driving across the southern United States, Ramses and I drove across those things. I call them rumble strips where we live. Those things are on the side of
the road. In Mississippi, however, they are in the middle of the road, so if you get over into a lane, you will drive across those things. And a state trooper, a highway patrol officer, and I think a sheriff may have all heard us for a fraction of a second drive across those and pull us over. Now, I'm assuming we got pulled over because maybe they thought we were either dozing off or had been drinking. We're driving under the influence, and this is why we were quote unquote swerving,
which is not the case. But upon about thirty seconds of conversation with us, it should have been reasonably clear to anybody whose eyes and ears worked that we were not under the influence and that we were just fine. Neither of us have ever had a drink, and on
that day had just purchased a new car. The new car point is very very important to point out because after talking to us, asking us to get out of the car, and physically searching the car themselves, the officers then felt it necessary to bring drug dogs to further look for drugs or contraband in the new vehicle that we had just all right, let me jump in, let me jump in right here, and I'll round this out.
So that is an example of driving while black. You see how the situation was escalated. They pulled us over for nothing. No one was harm whatever. They checked the car out. We're clearly not drinking. Q has never had alcohol in his life, neither have I. We've never done drugs. Neither of us have never done any drug in our life. Right, very obvious as soon as the officer approaches a car. But because we look like us, let's get the drug dogs out here. You know, and we have a right
to be afraid. We were composed at this interaction, but it was terrifying, right, I understand why people run away because it's very scary when they have those dogs and they're you know, look, these guys are going to make up something about us.
They were gonna do.
You know, I'll take my chances trying to run through these woods.
You know.
I obviously I didn't do that, but I see how a person who pays NIX might do that, despite how innocent they are. So this is the reality of driving while black. This is the reality of getting pulled over. And you're talking to two people who have a shared experience. I'm not talking about my own individual experiences of driving. I've been driving since I was sixteen, you know, same as Q and same as anyone else who was black or even people are not black. But the point is
that those interactions tend to be very scary. And now we can point at numbers that tell us why, or tell other people Black people we already know why, but might tell non black people why it's so scary. And also a couple of stories, a couple of examples of things that we weren't able to share in previous episodes, but also point to this issue that says, hey, sometimes these interactions get escalated and people end up losing their life. So we'll leave it right there. Stick around your radios.
We're coming back with more Cipic cipher right after this