If you just tuned in a civic cipher, I am your host. Ramsey's job is Ramsey's job. I am q Ward.
Welcome back, if you've been here, and if you have not, welcome to another day in the Life Size Life, Excite Life Life.
Yes, indeed, today we are talking about the war, the Israel Hamas War. And again, for those that weren't here earlier, we understand that this show is exists to foster solidarity between you know, marginalized groups and the powers that be
in this country. Today we're talking about something that is taking place on foreign soil, but there are a lot of people with a lot of passion who are activists, who are connecting the struggles, and it just felt important for us to provide as much insight into this conflict as we can so that we're understanding each other and we're not othering each other. Before we continue that conversation,
let's discuss BABA becoming a better ally BABA. Today's BABA is sponsored by Friends of the Movement to support Black businesses and allied businesses. You can sign up for the free voter wallet at fotmglobal dot com and make an impact with your spending Again that's fotmglobal dot com. This comes from stop aap I hate and I'll just read
how they wrote it. We are horrified and devastated to learn that a six year old child in Illinois, Wadia al Fayome, was brutally murdered and his mother critically wounded by their landlord simply for being Muslim. Law enforcement has charged a man with a hate crime, stating he attacked the Palestinian American family due to them being Muslim and the ongoing Middle Eastern conflict involving Hamas in Israel. This is a very sad story. This a little boy. He
died from his stabbing. We grieve for the loss, the tragic loss of his young life, and as a coalition dedicated to tracking and preventing acts of hatement, we are deeply concerned for our communities across the nation, many of which are living in a heightened state of fear that in many ways mirrors what American Muslims, Arabs, and South
Asians experienced post nine to eleven. In addition to many Southeast Asian Americans who are Muslim, about a quarter of Asian Americans who trace their ethnic origin to South Asia or have some connection to Islam. Now thousands of miles away from the devastation than the least, we're seeing dangerous political rhetoric and news coverage here that is encouraging people to conflate the actions of leaders at war with innocent
people and children like Wadia. Lastly, when we encourage Asians and Asian Americans who have experienced and activate including racial profiling, verbal harassment, and other attacks based on religion, ethnicity, and national origin or race, to visit stop aapi hate dot org and you can support Wadia al fayomes fundraiser at launch good dot com. Just be sure to search for his name. That's a horrible story, but you can support his family in the aftermath, and that way you can
become a better out life. Sure, so now we are going to discuss Israel, discuss a little bit of powers. We're going to discuss both because there's no way to really separate them too. But there's no teams. Yeah, yeah, thank you for saying that, man, because this is tough. Man.
The reason we're even speaking about this bro is because innocent civilian people are being murdered on both sides. That's the conversation. We don't sit on here and talk about or yeah, right, the Russian Ukraine conflict, maybe we mentioned on our show, but maybe I can't recall. There's tons of different contexts and different nuances as to why people have separate opinions. We should not have separate opinions once again.
But the image that I saw and man holding rocking his lifeless baby, that should be a terrible image to everyone, no matter who you are, how you pray, how you love, or how you look, that should be something that breaks your heart.
There was an image that I saw that broke my heart. I don't even want to say it, but I'm here now, so here we go. It was of a mother. She had two babies and they both were gone, and they were laying there, and she was, in my estimation, visibly a Muslim woman because of how she was dressed. I believe ethnically the people are all the same. But you know, these people pray this way and these people pray that way,
but they look very similar. I suppose it's probably and I don't mean anything when I say that, just but this mother was I would yes, Palestinian, and she was laying and it was a hospital, and she had her too. They're very young, and they had to right on the bellies of the baby, the babies because maybe that's how they're keeping track or something. I'm sorry, yeah, I'm not going to finish that one, so okay, so let's move on. I'm sorry you not my father, I can't even tell
you that story. But anyway, so here's what happened.
But you should not have to be a father to empathize, right, you can empathize more specifically from the viewpoint of a parent, but you should not have to be a father. In the same way that you should not have to be Jewish to empathize with Jewish civilians being murdered, you should not have to be Palestinian to empathize and feel bad for Palestinian civilians being murdered, or black civilians being murdered,
or white civilians being murdered, or whatever your ethnicity. Again, the way that you pray, the way that you love, the way that you look does not take away from the fact that you are a human being and one thing that we all need to get to the core of, right when it comes down to the science, get down to what we are made of on a molecular level, You get down to what we are singularly a race from the same source, from the same place in Africa.
So again, these differences that we imagined, that we constructed and then used to divide ourselves, you know, really a singular group. I don't have to point it out. Just read a history book or read all the history books.
Right.
We want to elevate ourselves as more than in everyone else less than, and hear all the reasons why they are less. And once I've made them less, when I murdered them, rape them, kidnap them, traffic them, beat them into their last breath, decent people won't feel guilty about it and won't make me feel guilty about it because they will understand that those people are others and they are less than.
Yeah, so I'm glad you brought us here, because here's okay. So we heard in the first half of the show the activist again, his name is Gabriel Miller. He was drawing some connections between the experience of black people in this country and the experience of Palestinians, right, and suggesting
that there's some solidarity there. Now, I do want to point out that a lot of media attention was given to a post by BLM Chicago, where whoever posted this posted a picture of a paratrooper saying you know, I
stand with Palestine or something like this. Effectually, that was what it was communicated in this social media post, and then the caption said, you know that's it, that's the post, right, But because it was a paratrooper, it's the implication was that, you know, I stand with hamas the terrorist group, not I stand with the Palestinians, right, because the paratroopers were the people that kind of landed in I believe they landed around go ahead.
So this is the interesting thing about saying I stand with in this moment, right, you draw a direct opposition to everyone else. And in this case there's a conflict between two peoples, two groups of people, to ethnicities, if you will, If you say I stand with one, then you stand other or opposed the other. That's the trick
bag here. You want to I want to show support from my Jewish friends, so I stand with Israel, and saying is that you're opposed again to these children and mothers and fathers and workers and healthcare professionals and doctors and nurses being murdered because they're not Jewish, well because they're not Palestinian, and that should be a crazy thing
to say out loud. But we have this tribalism about us where we feel like we have to stand quote unquote in solidarity with someone in a case where there are two entire groups of people, civilian people's being harmed.
And what you're saying is, let us not forget the human beings that are paying the costs for this on the ground. And so again, when this post started making the rounds, it's like, oh my gosh, BLM Chicago posted something blah blah blah. It turns out that there are people who are trying to say, hey, don't just let the version of the story that's out right now be the whole truth for you, that there is a Palestinian cost that has been being paid for some time prior
to this attack by hamas right. And so I think this is what maybe the bo and people were trying to say, they missed the market, they admitted that whatever, but in any event, not that that's right or wrong. That's what brought it to my attention.
This is what happens situations like that. Though there is a house on fire, so you call the fire department to that house, every house that's ever been burned is not the it's not the call to action in that moment. So it's just like black lives matter, will so do white lives You're right, sure, except I'm talking about.
That right right now, Yeah, right now, we're doing this.
So even that post when you see a hospital blow up full of Palestinian people, that I stand with Palestine is.
Not opposed to any other group.
It's hey, that group right now is being murdered mercilessly, civilians, women, children, babies.
So let me let me offer this. Okay. So there are people who have said, you know, Hamas is a radical group and they have done these horrible attacks and blah blah blah, Palestine is you know whatever, and they feel like Israel's response is justified. I talked with Amy Orwitz on the Black Information Network Daily podcast, the show that I do at the BIM, and he explained some things to me that made the story become a little
bit more complicated. I just want to share a little bit with you here, but please check out the content. I believe I have it on YouTube, but it's at the bi I mean, you can Black Information Network, you can just look for it, you'll see my face big o' afro. Click it, it'll be right there, and it'll give you some insight and from a Jewish man's perspective on the state of Israel and their response and why things are more complicated than they seem. So it's important for me
to say this because I know it. Hamas is a group that is not a traditionally organized military. They operate in a very unorthodoxed manner. They might have a base or a headquarters in the basement of a school, of a hospital or whatever. Right. Jewish intelligence is aware of this because they're more fortified because they feel like they're not going to get attacked if they're in a hospital or if they're at a school or something like this. Right,
So this is how Hamas works. Israel needing precision to get Hamas and can't just blow up the whole city, might target a hospital or a school with a missile. Right, But there's a human cost. And Ami told me he's like, at present, Israel's cost for getting one Hamas soldier is one civilian, which is both good and bad. It's bad because it's always going to be bad. There should never be a civilian cost to get rid of the soldier.
But it's good because it's such a condensed area that only getting you know, the racial only being one person per one soldier. It shows how precise they are. Obviously they have a lot further to go. The problem, however, is the accuracy of that data. Sure, and it comes from Ami. But this is just what I'm told him. So I'm sharing you the way I was told the paraphra.
Just because people will hear this after so much more information has been provided.
You know that that's more than fair. Ramses does not know that it's not one for one sure. Sure, and this this was I had this conversation maybe a week or so ago. So there's been a lot more death and destruction since I've had this conversation. Quoted. No, no, no, not at all. I'm doing my best record now. He said to me, He's like the israel The Israeli government will send information, drop leaflets, whatever, say hey, you have an hour to vacate. We're going to blow this building up.
And the people that get out cool. The people that don't they're just there in the aftermath. And so this is what Amy told me. The the Israeli government's position is now to be just to give you a little bit of background, Amy has spent time with This is what he told me. He spent time with hamas undercover. He's a journalist, so think like those journalists that go overseas, and you know, and of course, because because he's I got to make sure.
Some of us being a militant political group now seen as a terrorist organization.
Right right, And and Amy's been on our show before. We don't agree about much politically speaking, but we do respect Amy as a journalist, and we respect him as our Jewish brother. And I think he's a good man. He means well. His tactics and his policies and his thoughts and you know that sort of stuff that's all debatable, but I know that I feel that he has a good heart, and that's really the measure of a man to me, Right, we all have lessons to learn. I'm
still growing and so is he. With that in mind, I wanted to share that, and I do want to share a bit about what John Stewart said about Israel and Palestine, because John Stewart is a tremendous voice in this space, and he's a Jewish man, and so he doesn't I don't think he would naturally side with Palestine, nor would he because he's a critical thinker, nor would
he side with Israel. But he is Jewish, and so I think that he sits at a particular intersection where maybe we can learn something from him that we You and I certainly wouldn't be able to offer the conversation. And just you, the listener, on your own travels, maybe you might not come to these conclusions on your own souls.
I challenged a listener to listen to the lack of extremism in his belief Yeah, that's not his His views are not polarizing, Like you said, He's a critical thinker and he presents them with nuance in a way that a simple person should be able to hear the language that he uses and understand what he means.
Okay, yeah, now speaking of colonialism, like God right here.
I appreciate you as an artist and as a humanitarian, as a human being, because I imagine it can be difficult because you are someone who is righteously speaks out against the disgusting, violent, terrible anti Semitism that comes from all facets of our society. But you also are humanitarian enough to speak on behalf of Palestinians who are being being treated like second class citizens.
And do you get any pushback as a Jewish person because of.
This, No, everybody's cool. Everybody's cool with it until they find your email, of course.
You know.
Again, it's and there are a lot of reasons for that, but one of them is that as a Jewish person, you are saddled with the idea that you are not a citizen of America or a citizen of the world. You are a citizen of Israel and you must back their actions or the actions of and one has nothing to do with the other, and one has nothing to do with being Jewish or not being Jewish or whatever it is that people choose on their religion, or on
their history, or on their background. It has to do with in the way that I view governments that don't act on behalf of or that you know, what has happened in that part of the world is tragic and unfortunately, I think the biggest problem is it's to nobody's benefit but the Palestinian people that it get resolved. It's not to the benefit of the Israeli government. They use the Palestinian issue as a cudgel, and they continue to build settlements and whatever it is that they want to do.
And no one's suggesting that, like terror attacks are okay, and that's a good thing. But if you're held to that standard that you don't get your state until nobody tries to kill anybody else, then you're never going to get your state. It's not to the benefit of the other Arab leaders in the region because their people can be mistreated in the same way by their autocracies. So why do they want to fix the Palestinian situation when they can use Israel as an easy code to get their people in line.
Don't look at us, Look at.
Israel right right, We're working with you.
Look how they with the Palestinians. It's not to the United States benefit because we have an ally in the region that's a lot more complicated for us than in other ways because they rely on our military aid and all kinds of other things. So if it's not in anybody's interests in the powers of status quo, what chance do they have.
It's a very efficient way of looking at it, that's exactly what it is.
But what chance And it's not really to Hamas's benefit And it's not to FATA's benefit because then they lose their grip on power. So there's only people who always lose are the day and day out palastin in p because it's to no one's benefit to help them put them.
Yes indeed, wow, yeah, what do we say after that?
Right?
If we could have tried to put all of our thoughts into chat GPT and heave it, give us the ai, give us the right way to talk about this. A white Jewish American.
Rich, rich, well off successful, he'd be fine if he didn't talk about these things, but offering some humanitarian perspective on behalf of a people that are not his, but that he sees that are under the thumb.
Yeap. You know, we talked about Zionism.
And the important part that I left out is that what is now Palestine is now is the land that those that believe in Zionism want to reclaim for Jewish or Israeli people, and that's where that conflict started one hundred years ago or probably longer ago than that.
So let me make sure that we say this here. We are learning about this in real time. Along with most everyone else. We do our best to not let any conversation devolve into fighting and that sort of stuff that doesn't help anyone. This show was created out of love.
We are on record having stood with our Jewish brothers and sisters against a super megastar thing a trademark away from him so that he couldn't maneuver in anti black spaces and effectively challenging his anti Semitic rhetoric and media outlets. That's well documented. You could google that, google civic ciphers, see what comes up. And then historically we've always stood
with our Muslim brothers and sisters. You know, for a long time it felt very we felt very connected, and I know that personally and individually we celebrate our relationships with our brothers and sisters of Islam. Every word that we've uttered on this show has come from a place of love, and I hope that this conversation has kind of let a little air out of the ball. There's no need for people to be so angry or so oppositional. It's complicated, it's changing, we're all learning, and our hope
is that it resolves as peacefully as it can. With that in mind, we have to leave it right there. So I'd like to thank you once again for tuning in a civic ccipher. I'm host rams' jaw.
He is ram Jaw, I am qboard. Let's continue conversations like this where we're building bridges and trying to lead with love instead of the other way around.
Yeah, and I for people that know way more than we do. We know it might sound like we're just naive and we don't understand the complexities. And maybe you're right, but I'd rather die on this hill where I'm optimistic and hopeful and I'm trying my best to make sure that people have a little bit more love in their voice than any other one.
So you and someone want to challenge us on semantics, here the actual message, and don't try to tear us down about the details or data.
Points that were wrong about you.
Appreciate people, Innocent, people shouldn't be murdered no matter how they look.
Love or pray. Yeah. Follow us on all social media as civic scipher. We're booming. Yeah, And until next week, y'all. Peace, Peace,