Keep on riding with us as we continue to broadcast the balance and defend the discourse from these hip hop weekly studios. Welcome back to Civic Cipher. I am your host.
Rams's job is Ramsey's jaw. I am q ward. You are tuned into hopefully still listening to and still riding with us here at Civic Sifer.
Yeah, and shout out to everyone who was listening to the first part of the show, because the second part kind of leans on it a bit, but you don't need to have listened to the first part of the show in order to get it. Today we're talking about, you know, working with folks with opposing views political political views, and we've compiled a few best practices that we think
will help you on your way. We know that this is kind of like an interesting time in our country's history, and you know, the story we told in the first half just kind of illustrated what division looks like and how being committed to brotherhood and sisterhood really goes a long way. So we're going to continue to developed that. But before we get there, it's time to discuss Baba becoming a better ally.
Bye, bab becoming a better ally. Sponsored by Friends of the Movement. You can sign up for the free voter wallet from fotmglobal dot com to support black businesses and allied businesses as well as make an impact with your spending Again fotmglobal dot com. The story comes from Zantousa dot org. The USA General Women's Strike has been called for June twenty fourth, twenty twenty four. Nice join the women's strike. Show your support for reproductive rights and equality
by refusing to work, spend, and wearing red. Step one, strike no work, no nothing. Step two. If you can't strike, no spending. Step three We're read. Step four amplify on social media. Give you some background. The US Supreme Court is issued it's ruling on the Dobs case on June twenty fourth, twenty twenty two, taking away the constitutional right to abortion, abandoning almost fifty years of precedent and paving
the way for states to ban abortions. Women of the USA will take their stand on June twenty fourth, and in November. Ramses that was really really hard to read, not because I can't read, but because it's the type of thing that a few years ago would have seemed impossible. I think a lot of us thought.
Rob Wade was law that would Yeah.
I think a lot of us thought. I think a lot of us think that a lot of things that seem like legal, that are just legal precedent, are lawed permanently because they're the things that any decent humans should just be allowed to have.
And I think that we're we've grown up accustomed to, like a more progressive evolution of our country. But if you do want to support this, you can check out Women's March dot org or is Onto USA dot org and joins this boycott. We certainly will, all right, So back to working with folks with opposing opinions. So I'm going to tell another story, my bad. I'm story Time all the show Man. My bad. But there's another story
I want to tell. And you know, I mentioned, you know on another in another conversation that you and I had having to go to my jeweler. It's not as fancy as it sounds, fancy as I just know I'm sitting. I'm just telling y'all it's because of y'all. Well, my jeweler is someone that I've known for some years now. Again, he's a good man. I have no reason to think otherwise. He's a family man. He is very kind. Imagine me walking into your jewelry store, you know what I mean.
He doesn't treat me like a threat. You know, there's an an extra layer of trust there that I would feel like is reserved for people that are friends, you know. And you know, I'll say his name just so you can follow the story. His name is orin Okay. Orrin is a Sephardic Jew. And the reason I know what a Sephardic Jew is is because Oran taught me that years ago, and he was very happy to explain that to me, and I loved learning about it. There's something
very special about So. I grew up Christian, right, and like most Christians, growing up Christian doesn't really mean a whole lot in the same way that it that it what it means when you grow up Muslim and you have to pray five times a day, or you grow up Jewish and you wear a yamaka and you don't wear jewelry and you're you know, Orthodox, or you know whatever. You know, there's a little bit more discipline and alignment with the doctrines of the faith in these other religions.
And so for me to see this commitment from Muslim people over the years, from Jewish people over the years. It's something that I've always appreciated, very admirable, and I've always been very interested in learning more about it, and I do my best to receive these conversations in a in a loving way. You know, these people aren't anything other than just amazing people expressing faith, and it's another expression of humanity, and I think that's beautiful.
Right.
With that said, Ever since this war broke out, with Israel's response to you know, October seventh, being, in my words and what I told him a little bit more, a lot more aggressive than most people are comfortable with, I've been I've been thinking about him because I know that I feel this way, and I would have assumed that he would have been one of the people who would applaud Israel's response protecting Jewish lives right, And I
can't be mad at him for feeling that way. I don't think I think there's a line, and I think the human part of you, before you're before you're anything, you're a human being, before you're Christian, before you're black, before you're white, before you're whatever, you're a human being. That is that's verifiable.
That's not true of everyone.
Though, But I feel like when the more evolved, the more you.
Well, this is what I mean. But if if from birth you are indoctrinated, that's a tougher with regard to religion. Then you are nothing before that. If your first thoughts, the first rules that you've ever abided by in life, were tied directly to.
That faith, that fair life is worth less than that. Yes, and this is this is fair. I'm glad you brought that because I know that that has That's exactly what I have been taught and would be taught now if I was, you know, in like super deep into any faith.
All of them are like that. But I feel like the more educated a person becomes, the closer to quote unquote God a person becomes, you know whatever, the more they realize that some of their some of the beliefs that they have stand in contrast and in conflict to some of the other beliefs that they have from the
same book. Right, So, if these people are your brothers, and you should do no harm and that should not kill them, whatever it is that your faith teaches you, you have to reconcile that text with that text, right.
I think what happens though, we'd like to assume that closer to God also means more enlightened, and it does.
Not not always. There are some people who I feel like.
No, both can be true, but they don't mean the same. It's so that the idea you can get closer to God and become more extreme because you didn't learn to just dove more into your faith.
So it's yeah, that you're you're You're absolutely right, and I'm glad you mentioned that too. So this is clearly it's a it's a tricky subject. But back to Oran. One of the things that is I think it might be impossible for me to do is to pretend like I feel a different way than I do, or to hide how I truly feel because I feel like it might hurt somebody. That's just not my way. I would feel so fake. I call Ami my brother, you know. I call Orrian my brother. You know, I'm grateful to
be able to call both of them my brother. I'm grateful, you know, all of the people of different faiths and different races and different walks of life that I've met that have become you know, family members, brothers, sisters, you know whatever, it's an honor. They make my life more beautiful, right, and so far be it from me to pretend to be fake, to hide something from them, And so I kind of my tendency is to lean into those things.
And so in talking to him, I says, Hey, I've been thinking about you for some months now, and I'd like to invite you up to talk on my show. You have educated me on Judaism and what it means to be a Jewish person in my adult life in such meaningful ways. Just hanging out with you in this
jewelry store, it's very special to me. And I feel like if there's anyone that I know who is as knowledgeable as you, who as as committed to his faith as you, who can say it was involved politically well, who can bring some insight to this, it would be you. Now I have to warn you, I love you. You're my brother. I feel differently, I feel like Israel's response to this is much too far, and I still feel like you maybe can come and share your thoughts. I
won't be combative with me and Ammi. It's different. I could Meanami could go at it all day, but with Orin it's not like that it's just a different temperament. Right, meeting where he is, you can say what you want to say. I want to honor Jewish people. That we've spent many episodes on this show honoring Jewish people, defending Jewish people against black people. Right, So it's tough to walk that line, to give everybody a seat at the table,
everyone a chance to express themselves. But the right thing to do, and I'll let you jump in, is to say how I feel. To make sure that he feels confident in saying how he feels. And now you have the beginnings of a conversation. What you say will will be well received. It might not change how I feel, but let's begin a conversation. And I think there's a lesson there.
But we're gonna get into some of our best practices with regards to having discussions with people who have, you know, different opinions than us, mostly in a political space. But I just want to point out, just in case I don't have time to say this later, all of us require grace at some point. One thing to always remember in these situations is to extend it in return. The thing that stands out the most to me, and I'm just bringing this up because of the conflict in Gaza
is that you said many times on this show. We have defended Jewish people, we have shouted down anti Semitism. We knew in those moments that the people that needed the grace, that needed the allies, that needed their voices to be heard, were our Jewish brothers and sisters. To our Jewish brothers and sisters, somebody else needs that grace. Now, even if you thought a response was necessary and justified, at some point, your humanity does have to show up.
Because when your humanity is brought to question and disrespected and people try to stomp on it, you have allies, and you require grace and we show it. You cannot ask for and require grace and then not extended when
someone else needs it. So, when we're talking about differences of opinion, sure, but as I said before, we cannot be different on everything, especially when part of what we're different on allows for my people, my ancestry, my prosperity, my posterity to be stomped out, and and and not only are you not standing to defend or protect me, but you're joining in and doubling down on it like that.
That cannot be the solution, especially because we all know that at some point all of us have axed for and received some sort of grace.
You know, I say stuff and I think I got it, and then you come and then you tie it all together, and I'm like, oh, that was it my fault. Thank you for making me sound better, cause I appreciate that. So last little bit, you know, I mentioned again that, uh, my position was that Israel had gone too far, and Luren says, well, what do you think Israel should have done?
Hm?
And I said, you know, I I don't know. A. The reason I said that is because that was not the place to have that conversation. B I'm probably not the best person to have that conversation. I'm an ally, so I share things here and there, but far be it for me to dictate what the line should be. I can speak up when the line is too far right, and I reserve that right. Everyone should right. The other thing is, you know Q was gonna get a kick out of this, but I don't like to have the
conversation before I have the conversation. So if he ever does come up on the show, you will hear him and I have our conversation for the first time. Now, what happened in this story and in the earlier story with Ami stories with Amy. What are some of the things that we learned in our time growing this show where we've had people who are in powerful positions, oftentimes they're white men, and we're wanting to do a show
that foster's allyship for black and brown people. You know, it doesn't benefit them to directly, it costs them airtime. They're not playing hip hop songs, and we're talking about you know, the struggle, you know, dead people dying, mother's weeping, We're talking about trying to grow as human beings, and they're on radio stations where people are trying to party. Right, So, what is it that we've done and seen has worked
over these years. Well, one of the things that we do, and I think that c is a lot better at this than I am, is we find things that we can agree on in a general sense, and it might be something as simple as you know, we we we want these people to be safe. You know, you're not going to find too many people that would disagree with the statement like yeah.
So statements like that are important because they help you identify people who are so far removed from the conversation that you're trying to have to know that you should
not try to have it. So one of the things before we even get into best practices is that sometimes disengaging is the best option because a person has either decided that the facts aren't the facts, they've decided that your point of view is so far beneath theirs that it does not even deserve a dignified you know, exchange, or that there's just a level of decency required that
isn't present. Right, everyone should be safe. Rams just put that as a softball on purpose, because we should all be able to agree on something like that, But there are cases where we cannot, and you realize before a conversation even starts, Okay, we should not even participate in this one.
So that brings me to my second point on the I guess it's our list. But recognizing that agreeing on the same set of facts is mission critical because often we're not working with the same set of facts. There are facts that are falsehoods, they're just purported as facts. There are gaps in factual information. Lord knows, on this show, we both learn things after the fact, and we just didn't know that, and we have to come back as we do and apologize and make the stories right. You know,
we want to. This is not a cloud chase, we eat humble Pie, this show. Yeah, this is We're trying to do what we feel is right in our hearts. Right, So, once you start getting to them real meat and potatoes of your conversation, after you've kind of figured out what you agree on in a general sense, it's easier to take the next step and start agreeing on what the
facts are. And one of the things that we do is we research the facts, and oftentimes people will have opinions that are purported as facts, and so we have to do media biased So it's not just fact checking. We have to check the bias. Is this Does this come from a decidedly far right source or a decidedly far left source? Politically speaking? Is there a bias inherent in these words? How can this person use that bias
against me? How can I let them know that the bias is what they're feeding into and not the facts, you know, and and starting to have that conversation. And there are objective neutral media bias fact checking sites online that you can check for yourself and the.
Truth is there are objective sources as well, and they're trying to find those collectively is important.
So in your activism and allyship, if it goes that far, you know, that's another thing to check. And Google is your friend, and it's on your phone and it's free.
So however, Google will bring you back both biased and objective sources. So Google is your friend. But even after that, but you need you need to fact check.
But you can you can google where to find out the media bias checks too. So another thing that we think is a really good idea is to understand that if we can't agree on how to get to where we're going together, Let's say we both say, hey, we want a better society for all people. If we don't agree on how to get there together, if we can both commit to getting there individually, understanding that hey, you feel differently than I do on the path to get there,
but at some point you might need me. I want you to know that you can call me when you need me, and I would like to know that I can call you when I need you, and you do your work and I'll do mine. Again, keeping that tissue of that semblance of brotherhood, of shared motivation and so forth. You know, we got a lot more in common than than what differentiates us, and we do need each other no matter what, and not losing sight of that is very important. Can we not interfere with each other's work?
In other words, I don't want to stand in your way, A lie, Marjorie Taylor Green. Okay, if you're doing it and you got the votes, and that's what's happening, let me not stand in your way. I gotta win another fight over here, right, that's what's happening. Get on board. Okay. You brought the example of Donald Trump became president. Guess what he was a president of the United States of America.
Guess rather the United States of America. And like any single solitary moment of it, but important to say because we do have an election coming up.
Unfortunately, this is a zero sum political system here, and we have to have a president. And I see a lot of people that are preparing to not participate because they don't think there's a good enough candidate. Listen, I'm not gonna pretend I don't feel you. I even feel your reason why.
One is way worse.
I have to keep revisiting the absolute fact that we have to have a president. Yeah, there's going to be one one of them. You know what I'm saying. Yeah, like I feel you. For everybody listening to me, I'm not judging you, I'm not belittling you. I feel you and I agree with you. Right, Neither of them deserve you,
neither of them deserve me. But you have to think about the reality you have to live in in the event that one of these people is elected, because one of them will be elected no matter what.
Just to wrap this up real quick, I'm not saying, don't interfere with the social order, shut down freeways, barricade yourselves and libraries. I love that energy, keep it up, but always remember that these people on the opposing sides are your brothers and sisters, even when it's tough, especially when it's tough, because that's when you get to prove that they're your brothers and your sisters. So we'll leave
that one right there. As always, i'd like to thank you for tuning in to another episode of Civic Cipher. Hopefully learn something. I have been your host rams this job.
He has, and I've been trying to convince you to go to our YouTube channel Civic Cipher on YouTube, Civic Cipher on everything else as well, But go to our YouTube channel because we got some special things coming. Rams has got me even more excited than I was already about the things that we're going to bring to you guys. But support us, like us, comment, share some love, and share our show with your friends, with your neighbors, and with your family members that need to hear these conversations.
Yeah yeah, and for anything else, hit the website civicipher dot com. You can submit any questions if you've got any topics you want us to cover. Make a donation. This is not a free operation, so make a donation. Please be sure to follow all the rest of our social media at civic Cipher. You can follow me at Rams, this job, I am q Ward and oh don't forget. You can download this and any previous episode, so if you missed the first half, it's somewhere out there and until next week, I'll peace