Welcome to another episode of Civic Cicher. I am your host, Rams's joh is H. I am q Ward.
And you are tuned into.
Indeed, you are got a great show lined up for you today. We're going to be existing very much in the abstract. We were asked a very important question from a person that we look up to, and we started to say the least a couple of people shout out to Jan and Ali and they're working with us on some really amazing things that come honest, that are in the pipeline, so stay tuned for that. We were really excited to announce that, but now is not the time. Anyway.
The long and short of it is, we were asked a question which led to a pretty insightful conversation, and that question was what does it mean to be an ally? And I loved kind of where we went with it, where our brains went, and how we kind of articulated
what that means. We're going to do our best to share that with you today because our assumption is that if you're listening to this show, or if you program this show, or you download the podcast, whatever it is, that to some degree you hope that the world can be a better place for black and brown people, and you are working to wonder or another to try to manifest that. And so we're going to spend a good
amount of the show talking about ally Ship. We're also going to spend some time talking about Rosewood for our Way, Black History Fact, and a whole lot of other stuff, a lot to stick around for. And I'm excited because these are the sorts of topics where we get to really rather than read the news and kind of give you our thoughts and what we can do about it. This is more about you who you are as a person,
and this is the episodes like these are the most meaningful. So, like we always do it, this time, let's go ahead and start off with some Ebony excellence. Provided that Ques on board, we shall. So for this week's Ebony Excellence, just know it is sponsored by Hip Hop Weekly Media, and we are going to shout out or we're reading from Black Enterprise Magazine. So we're going to shout out the founders of black owned eyewear line who made history
signing a licensing deal with Nickelodeon. So I will read meet Nancy Harris and Tracy Green, the founders of Loontel, the first black women owned iwear company to have established a partnership with Paramount and Nickelodeon. Their licensing deal allows them to exclusively make fashion forward eyewear products for kids, using popular characters like SpongeBob, SquarePants, Baby Shark, and Rugrats. For their accomplishments in business, they were recently featured on
The Kelly Clarkson Show. Nancy comments quote, we are thrilled to announce our three year partnership with Paramount. We are proud to be the first African American women owned eyewear company to have such a deal. Bontel is committed to creating eyewear that celebrates the African diaspora. Tracy comments. Bontel was founded to satisfy the demand for better fitting, vibrant, luxury eyewear design and handcrafted to be homage to the African,
Caribbean and Latin diaspora. Now, I want to say something here. Ebny Excellence is a part of the show that we really love because a lot of times when we get to this part of the show, we have to talk about a lot of things that are happening in our communities and our struggles, and that sort of stuff, and it's important to remind you that we were not just
born to struggle. We were born to laugh and enjoy life, and to be creative, and to fall in love, and to raise our children and to cry tears of joy and sadness and ebony. Excellence I think provides a very important dynamic to the show. So I appreciate you letting us get that off every single week. If somebody was to come to you and say I would like to be an ally, how does that look to you?
I think the first thing that's important is it not being performative. There is a tendency to very comfortably agree with your friends, even when you don't wholeheartedly even understand what you're agreeing with. Why they're hurt, why they're offended, Why it feels like impression. I had a friend ask me in the time where we're dealing very publicly with the White Lives Matter trademark. One of us said something
about it being triggering. And this is a white friend of mine, and she was very very confused as the idea, like, why is that triggering to you? Why does the term white Lives matter trigger you? This is a person that not just someone that I know cares about me, but that cares about my kids, that has invested in my well being and is somebody that I call family. But she was really like taken aback and confused at the idea that that term would be something triggering or hurtful
to me. So taking the time to understand the why, I think sets you up to be in a better position where you're representing something that you also believe in. Not just parenting my beliefs because you like me, not just parenting my beliefs because you think that it's kind,
but actually understanding the why behind it. So me having to explain to her what Black lives Matter means, where it came from, why that affirmation was even necessary to a group of people whose entire history has been oppression, marginalization, kidnap, murder, and having all of that reinforced full time by the
infrastructure of the society that they live in. So not just personal people's personal hatred, not just one to one person to person racism, but the entire infrastructure of the company, from government to policing to policy to education, reinforcing all of these things that an entire group of people have had to go through for their entire existence on this continent. Right, having a system continue to show you that your life,
your posterity, your happiness, your existence is worthless. Right, Black Lives Matter is simply reaffirming that we deserve to exist. That's not saying that we should thrive and be prosperous and pursue happiness. No, we even take it that far. Is it okay for us to just exist here? Because we're seeing ourselves murdered on video and even stin even in that In that instance, your immediate reaction is to convince people why we deserved it.
Okay, So let me jump in here. I think I was once to ask this question. Uh. It was an early episode of Civic Cipbert believe or not. One of my neighbors came up because I think we had a guest cancel, and he and I were having a good conversation. I was like, you know what, you want to come to my show? And he came up. I think that you were This was I don't even know, but this was early in again, and he asked me the same question, well, you know, what can we do to support black people?
And I think what he was asking is how can we be allies. How what does that look like? How what does that look like? And so I recognized that it's important to find what it is and then explain how it looks. So, in short, if I was going to use my own language appealing to somebody, one individual, not a group, but one person, and I was to say, hey, listen, I need some allyship, and they were to ask what does that mean, I would start by saying, basically, just
just hold me down. Trust me when I say that this is what it is. Value my perspective. Listen to me. Step out of your own way and challenge the boundaries of what you think empathy is, because everybody in their own mind thinks that they can see it from the other side. So challenge those boundaries. In fact, the things
that you feel are nonsense. Question why you might feel that way, and ask questions toward that end to gain more understanding, right, and then you'll be moving with the why instead of just with the performative part that you mentioned about just going through the motions. There's a why. There's some substance there underneath your allyship. But that's why
that conversation was so important. You and I spoke about this on our show before the words white lives matter, just like black lives matter, should not be controversial or offensive in any way, because, of course white lives matter.
But it's the why that term was even born that I had to explain to her. So that's why I had to paint such a vivid picture as to why black lives matter even existed, so that when I came back and said, yeah, white lives matter came just to oppose what I just told you, just to say, no, your lives don't matter. If they're not you don't they don't have worth, you don't just to exist. And then my white friend understood the why and felt as offended as I did. And that was a much longer form
conversation than that. But after you get to the why again, you said it, I'm saying it again. It's not performative anymore understanding from the perspective of the people who are hurt, of the people who are being marginalized, their why, because in this instance it's not yours.
Let me add something else to I think that allyship requires. If you're committed to growing and challenging your beliefs, you have to also be committed to a long campaign of learning, because what will happen is you will say, oh, I want to support you. I think that this is a good thing you're doing. I want to be I want to be activated in a way, in a meaningful way where I can support you toward whatever end you're pursuing.
And then when you're away from me and you get around your friends again, they might get into your be like, you know, those guys are only doing that because of this, and you know they're always saying that or did you see this poll? And blah blah blah, And then now you're like lost in the sauce again and you kind of lose a little bit of steam. So you have to be committed to a long campaign and bear in mind that there are going to be some challenges along
the way. There's a lot of we did a whole episode, you remember that episode we did on how data gets manipulated and used against us, And there's a lot of people where they come across that, people who would be allies or have been allies, or whatever the case is, and they come across these things which are either half truths or distortions or you know, distortions of the truths or whatever. And because it's presented as complete and factual.
They and they receive it that way, and then they're like, oh what am I doing? Man? Because you know, that's that's that's a valid point. Even the Dilbert comic guy him with that straw pole thing or the ras Musen pole thing, we just talked about him saying, oh, black people feel like, uh, what do you say it's okay to be white? Yeah, that's la people exactly, And that's
not nearly the complete story. You know that there's there's a weight to that statement that is particularly offensive and oppressive. And our belief is that the response in that right leaning rass Musen poll, which you know, uh, wasn't even fully explained because there's at least three parts of every pole. They only showed two, but even still it didn't color in those lines. And it's no different from saying is
it okay to be white? And people's you know, having an issue with that statement because it in and of itself is a racist statement. I told you about the group I'm Reddit I'm a part of, and the group is titled It's Okay to Be White, and the group is racist people, and we use this for fodder for the show, right, it's similar to challenging what we talked about as people. It is black power as a statement problematic. Most folks Black folks would be like, no, not problematic
at all. I understand it. It means that, you know, our community is galvanized around a cause of mission whatever. And that's the same group of folks. Is white power problematic? Everybody be like yeah, totally because that phrase, even though it's just one word change, that phrase is rooted in the oppression of black people and the meaning, the meaning behind it is very different. So again, this is it okay to be white, sure, but the meaning behind that
phrase is not just the language. It's there's a deeper, more sinister component that is not reflected in Erasmussen poll. And the dober guy is completely shot off his track. And then the people that feel like, well, look look at the poll numbers. I get why he's saying that.
That data's presented that way for those people intentionally to kind of light a match to their to their their fuel if you will. But you spoke about committing to like a long term journey of learning, challenging your own implicit biases, You're going to hear stuff that's wrong. That sounds like how you feel, and it'll make you want to defend it. Right, So I told you, anytime I speak about it, speak out about our former president, people that I know reach out to me to defend him.
And I realized after the third or fourth person, Oh, they're reaching out to defend themselves. I presented something that they kind of agree with, or some part of what he's saying or what he feels that they also feel. I didn't say anything about his ideology. I just said something about him essentially being a bad person. And by this person reaching out to tell me all these great things he's done, it's like, oh, they feel like I'm attacking them. It's in those moments of discomfort where you
really have to do some work. Because of implicit biases and because of unlived experience, there are going to be some things like, my friend, you are not going to understand why people feel that way. You and I learned that we had so much to do and so much room to grow and learn with regards to being allies to women. This is Reverend Estella's son six sisters. You know, girl, dad, Oh my god, did we have a lot to learn.
So we could have saw these things, these points of views that we oh man, I might have kind of thought like that and held onto that and stood opposed to women where we had to just say flat out no, you're wrong too.
So I think you're nailing it right here. So I'm glad you brought up the I'm assuming you're alluding to the me too movement. Watch this. I mean, yes, that's it, and that's what started the conversation.
You're really talking about being allies to women in general. We feel very short and doing our part.
Okay, So what does allyship mean? Ramses? Well, allyship means, as I mentioned, I'm committed to the long term journey with this group of people. That I'm not a part of this group. I'm not a woman. But if they say that's what they want, I follow their leadership. I support in ways that they deem meaningful. Where I can and where I can't, I challenge myself to try to show up, make a sign, you know whatever. You know what I'm saying. I'm always pushing myself to stand as
a brother to my sisters. That's a word that I use that I mean, you know that, and that word is a very special word to me because my dad had twenty four other kids. So that's not something that I take lightly. That's not something that I don't know nothing about. I am a brother, the big brothers, a little brothers, big sisters and little sisters. You know what I'm saying. And they all caught his phone and it'll be cool. So when I'm saying that, is like, Okay,
what is allyship? What are you trying to do? How can I be the best brother to you possible? Will you please instruct me? And then doing that and being committed to the long journey and maybe even being committed to the outcomes that whatever group we're talking about in this case, women want. And where I can make small changes I do. Where I can make big changes, I do, And if I can't, I bear in mind, then maybe this isn't my fight. I need to let my sisters
fight this one. I need to sit back. I don't seek recognition, you know. And it's not a matter of waiting to be called. It's an active So be at the ready, but be at the ready to be called to greater tasks. Be ready to be called to greater tasks as well. So again I'm not entirely sure if that fits neatly in a little like a definition thing.
Well, you know, if I have to expound, because you've said a lot of what it means to me as well, I'll just add to that. A lot of times we let our lack of understanding cause us to take a backseat and not participate at all.
That's not my fight. I don't really understand that, that's not it.
So I'm gonna just cross my hands over here and watch and observing is just as bad, you know what I mean? Like, just observing passively and not actively working to help resolve or help support that group that you're not a part of, is just as bad. Don't be a passivist be an ally, even while you're being educated, even while you're trying to learn, be an ally, you cannot let your ignorance paralyze you in a way that you don't participate.
Do you want to hear something really cool? I just made a connection. I want to see if it works. All right, So we talk about white privilege, right, people that enjoy white privilege are oftentimes in the best possible position to be allies. Right. Sure, some people don't acknowledge it,
some people aren't aware of it. Whatever. But the fact remains is that in the vast majority of circumstances, those who enjoy white privilege are in the best possible positions to have that title of ally right now, the parallel here, and I know we can't make a lot of parallels to other movements because this is kind of ours, but one that's in recent memory that we all kind of know about is again the me Too movement. I learned something that men have a certain privilege with respect to women.
One in particular, there's many, of course, but one in particular, there are plenty, One in particular is testosterone. So what I want to do is make a comparison testosterone white privilege. You have an advantage in the shared spaces. Right, It's less likely that I'm going to be challenged physically because I'm a man, and as we know, men have a lot in the way of strength. A man can kill you very easily if he was committed kind of to
the cause, right because of testosterone. Those humans with less testosterone as a rule, are less strong. Testosterone is the thing that kind of falls.
Out, less aggressive, n likely to cause you physical on and on.
Okay, So because I have been endowed with testosterone. If I am somewhere and I witness another individual with testosterone taking advantage of particularly physically, another person does not have testosterone, and that fight is not fair. And in my mind, in this scenario this is a man abusing a woman, I cannot, as you said, throw my hands up and
say that's not my fight. It could be physical, or it could be you know, some other invisible system, be it employment, be it representation, be it you know, anything like that. Right, But because I'm in the best possible position to challenge that testosterone laden individual, it is my responsibility to do so. Otherwise I could not call myself an ally and for me Ramses in particular, I could not call myself her brother. So that's a great parallel.
I think now anybody that was trying to figure out what messaging they could take away from, or what the thrust of this campaign is or should be, what are the like the main takeaways. If I had to fire off some ideas, I would want people to walk away from really anything that we do, feeling capable, because it's really easy to psych yourself out right feeling committed. I
would want people to feel like change is possible. I would want people to feel like it's okay to make a mistake, because remember, you're dealing oftentimes as an ally, you're dealing with a group of people who have been hurt. And sometimes even when you're helping individuals who've been hurt, they you got to warm up to them a little bit. You got to recognize that a lot of times their pain comes from places that is not you, and it might be directed in your direction. It's a thing that happens.
But again, you're committed to the long term, not to the individual, but to the.
Cause, and that pain might also come from a place or more specifically, a person that you resemble, and initially you don't know the difference, right, I can it to someone that's drowning, a person that's trying to pull them down, and a person that's trying to save them feels the same. They're in panic, they're afraid, a trauma based response. Yeah, they don't yet know the difference. Sometimes they will fight you for trying to save them too. You have to
be committed to that. Ask lifeguards, I did that job before. I have to commit to saving this person who might be actively trying to harm me because they don't know any better,