Broadcasting from the Hip Hop Weekly Studios. I'd like to welcome you to another episode of Civic Cipher, where our mission is to foster allyship, empathy and understanding. I am your host, Ramses Job.
He is Ramses Joh, I am q Ward. You are tuned in the civic side.
Indeed you are, and in today's episode we have more than a treat for you. We are once again joined by a good friend of the show and a hero she row of ours, the one and only Diane Post, who is an activist and a lawyer and the curator of the Action Alerts that are responsible for circulating legislative information to constituents and voters and just a joy and a pleasure to be around. So welcome back to the show.
Well, thank you very much that it's a great unintroduction.
Sure sure. When you said her name, I tried to push a button for a standard ovation for the air horns celebratory when.
You said yeah, yeah, So you know, obviously there's a lot that we're going to talk about today. But in the in the last since the last time you've been up here, which, to be honest, I looked and it was it's been almost a couple of years been too long. A couple of years, yeah, yeah, But since then the show has grown. But the world has changed, and this conversation we're about to have is long overdue, and I fear it will be too short, but I'm really.
Excited to talk with you.
We're going to be discussing, briefly discussing We're going to have other guests on because you plugged this into a whole new community, but we'll be discussing reparations. We're going to be discussing a restrictive combinant bill that everyone needs to be on the lookout for. Some other really cool things that you mentioned earlier. I want to make sure
we talk about the startle Baby reflex. We're also going to be talking about some of the attacks on affirmative action, the attacks on DEI, and of course what we can do to pull some power back from our local elected officials. So stay tuned for that and so much more. Of a first and foremost, like we always do at this time, let's discuss some Ebony excellence shall show. So today's Ebony Excellence.
Actually you want to hit this one, sure, go ahead. Today's Ebny Excellence sponsored by Actively Black there is greatness in our DNA. Visit actively black dot com. This comes from gistril yep dot com. Nigerian man tonday on A Koye plays chess with ten opponents at the same time in Germany. He wins every match. The founder of Chess and Slums Today, on A Koye made his country proud following his challenge with ten players simultaneously in Germany, and
he managed to win every match. During a recent conference in Germany, the chess master participated in a competitive event where he faced off against ten ponents. Ten opponents simultaneously engaging in a dynamic chess match. He moved around against each of the players for about two hours and effortlessly won against all of his opponents. Tounde, whose intent was to raise funds for one hundred children in his foundation, made his people proud as he shared his victory on
the x platform after the intense competition. Quote. On day two of the DLD conference, I played a simultaneous chess match against ten opponents at once. After an almost two hour battle of wits, I managed to win all the games. The chess exhibition helped us raise enough money to support the education of one hundred children in our academy. End quote. He wrote, Wow, I don't know if I can beat ten people at the same time at anything, so shout outs isn't enough. I wish I could crown this man.
You know something that's.
Really cool about stories like these is we try to highlight ebony excellence in places where folks might not expect it. But there's a The other side of this coin is that he's a do gooder on the continent of Africa, and I think that that's fantastic. Now let's get to the topic at hand. Diane Post joins us in the studio.
I just tried to push the standalvation.
We need airhorns. Man, it's time, it's going down. Okay, so a little bit of backstraight. We bumped into each other. This might have been a week or two ago, last Wednesday, Last Wednesday, okay, at the y w c A. It was an event, a community event, right, celebrating some really powerful women in the community leaders exactly. And we started
having a conversation. And the conversation effectually what we were discussing was you know, what are we talking about that that has to do with you know, environmental racism, what are we talking about. That has to do with the reparations. What are we you know? And if you know Diane, and for those of you that are able to check out the press materials and everything for the show, you get a look at her. She's a woman who just her postured commands a certain respect from you.
So it's very very much yes, ma'am. Yes, I'll get right on that.
You know that sort of thing, right, But we in short order decided, you know what, we need to have you back up. You know, we miss this energy. We need this energy, our listeners need this energy, and we need to be because the truth of the matter is that as a lawyer and as someone who's so active politically, you know things. You get it insider information and you just have a better understanding of the workings of government
and how power is wielded than most folks. And we famously are And I don't want to make us sound like just radio DJs, but we're DJs who felt like we needed to create a platform for people with voices such as yours. So what I want to do is start this conversation and we'll just get some of your thoughts with a topic, and then we'll have a brief discussion about that, we'll move to the next one. So first one is reparations. So when you hear the word reparations, where does your mind go.
Well, my mind goes to the fact that it's absolutely way past time. The reparations movement has been going since nineteen forty, I think, and the bill has been introduced every year, but it is ramping up. And one thing I want to say about what looks kind of like a bad situation with the mega people rising up and trying to ban books and do all these things. The answer to that is double fight back, you know, do more and overpower that. And that's really what's happening. I
think with the reparations movement nationwide. There's a couple of nationwide groups working on it, and we want to bring it here to Arizona's We should bring it everywhere. Reparations have been paid already to the Japanese and to some of the Native American tribes. Why not the blacks. So
the newest told we did a lot of research. I'm working with another woman there and we're going to try to put together a conference here in Arizona to start the movement to get it going here in Arizona, as with the national movement, and what we found out was that I forgot what I was saying.
Well, listen, while you gather your.
Thoughts, I do want to break this down a bit, because there's been a lot of what I'm saying.
Okay, the polls of the approving of it or not. Blacks have always approved of reparations from you know, forty acres in the milk. Whites have not. But the poles are changing, especially after the George Floyd incident and all the uprising against the violence by the police, et cetera. The poles have really changed it to white's being in favor of it, especially younger ones who don't have the you know, negative associations during the civil rights movement and
all of that sort of thing. You know. So as we become a newer nation with younger people who are taking the place of the old leaders, the mood is changing. People are more Whites even are in favor of reparation.
Okay.
So one of the things that I feel is really important when it comes to not just reparations, but really any form of restorative economic justice, is understanding the counterpoints because those are things that inevitably you will brush up against and that's really with anything politically speaking, But with this argument in particular.
We'll go ahead, go ahead your thought.
So with this argument in particular, there is so much on the other side of it that it feels like if you need to be informed and empowered to take on any sort of opposition, this is the one that you need to take the most serious. And so what I was going to say is that we shared Q and I we share in.
Our group chat.
Do you remember the video where they were talking about reparations and there was might might have been a Fox News piece or something like that, but there was a gentleman saying, reparations is going to make everyone jealous of black people.
Yes, he was presenting as a as a case or a reason why we shouldn't do it. It's kind of like I can't give this kid a popsicle because then I have to give all the kids of popsicles. That kind of elementary rhetoric used to manipulate a room, And when you have a room for the people who are already against it, that's a great place to start. Sure, sure, so do me for.
Ever, cute, go ahead and explain some of these lists that you put together here, because I think that this is fantastic.
So you know, in legal matters, especially there, and not just legal but policy, it helps when there's a precedent. We just so happened to have several. Nineteen ninety, the USA granted reparations and the amount of one point six billion dollars two Japanese Americans. Also in nineteen ninety Austria twenty five million to Holocaust survivors. Nineteen eighty eight, Canada two hundred and fifty thousand square miles of land to
Native Aboriginal communities Indian in Eskimo. Also nineteen eighty eight, two hundred and thirty million dollars to Japanese Canadians. Nineteen eighty six, the USA thirty two million dollars to the Ottawa of Michigan in the eighteen thirty nine treaty. Nineteen eighty five thirty one million to the Chippewa of Wisconsin. Similar in eighty five, the USA twelve point three million to the Seminoles of Florida. And I could go on.
Oh, you couldn't go on exactly.
Because you get to the bottom and the rest of these are at the USA There's another one from Germany, but most of these are from the USA. The CME Reparations nineteen February.
That last one, well, I'm going to keep going, that was in eighty five, the USA one hundred and five million to the Sioux of South Dakota, nineteen eighty eighty one million to the Climax of Oregon, nineteen seventy one, one billion dollars to Alaska Natives, and forty four million
acres of land nineteen fifty two. Germany, most famously eight one hundred and twenty two million dollars to highoc Coast survivors from eighteen sixty five to the present, the United States of America to the survivors of slavery and Jim Crow zero zero, zero exactly zero acres of land.
And there you mentioned the Jim Crow thing. This is one of the things that RJ, who I really would like to come on and talk about this with you, is have talked about the fact that this isn't just about slavery, it's sent slavery, on the black codes, Jim Crow, the facto segregation, on and on and on. Today, redlining, which I'm going to talk about with the restrictive covenants
on up to today. That economic depression is still there, and it gets to the point where you read those all the other things we've done, and the Hawaiians are fighting for reparations and an apology as well, you know, the Native Hawaiians. And how can you justify these and then say, oh, but not black people. How is that possible? It's not possible with any kind of a logical brain. It's only possible behind racism.
Now. I know that we could keep talking about this, but I want to shift because there's a good point where we can hid hinge yes, segue exactly.
Now.
When you talk about certain things only being possible because of racism, one of the things that jumps out in
my brain is environmental racism. It is only possible for this planet to be polluted if there's a group of people who have been subjugated and marginalized, who occupy piece of land that you can use to put your dirty factories or dump your trash, or otherwise disenfranchise this community so that your excess, the waste that is accumulated as a result of your access, can land somewhere right, And so these people have to be again politically disenfranchised, economically disenfranchised,
and historically subjugated. In other words, historically there is no framework for a governmental agency to care about them. Right, So you sent me a case study in Arizona, but it is it is a textbook example and wide indeed from a place called Randolph, Arizona, which I'll be honest, I live in Arizona with you, and you never heard Randolph Arizona.
But give us a little bit of history.
About this, because I think that everyone would enjoy learning about this, but also can see a little bit of themselves and their communities in this story.
Randolf Arizona was founded in the nineteen twenties by a guy who owned a railroad and thought he was going to make it the stopping point between Chicago and Los Angeles and didn't happen. But that is a cotton pickin area, cotton growing area, and they needed cotton pickers. Well where did they get them? They got them from Oklahoma and Arkansas, and so they actually had labor contractors who went there and brought them back. When they came. Some of them
had money and weren't all poor. Some of them had money and went to Coolidge, Arizona to buy a house, and they were not allowed. So they went out and they bought houses or land won't land because there weren't any houses there in what is now Randolph. And they're still there today and their one hundredth anniversary is next year,
twenty twenty five, and it's a historically black community. There are Heel River Indians that's near the Hiller River Indian Reservation, as a lot of them live in there as well in Hispanics, and so they became over the years surrounded starting in the nineteen eighties with heavy industry. They are a unincorporated rural area, agricultural area, so they're in Pennell County. They are not in Coolidge, so they're little rectangle eight by five blocks. Wow, you can figure that out, eight
by five blocks. How about one hundred and fifty people lived there? Used to be about eight hundred people live there now it's really down to one hundred and fifty. And they started to ring them all around with heavy industry, smells, pollution, noise, is trucks, the whole thing. You know, they fought, They fought for fifty years, have been fighting, and they lost
time after time after time. So when twenty twenty one, Saltworver Project tried to build or put an application in to build more than double their existing power plant that they have there, and so they fought. And this is
how bad it is. You talked about reparations. They had never in the three years that they owned, that power plant been owned nineteen years before by trans Cannadam and they bought it in three years prior to that, and never once spoke to the Randolph residence, never once did one thing for them, even though they said, we're good neighbors, we like to work with our neighbors. And I said in the trial, how many times had you actually talked to anybody from Randolph zero? You know you heard that
now we're didn't you zero? How much assistance did you offer Randolph zero zero? So during the trial, one of the guys from there came and he testified that they were pro testing, and so Saltware Project came to them and said, you know, well, we want to shut up your protests. Of course they didn't say that, but that's what they meant, you know, And they offered him. Guess how much they offered him. Saltware Project is a six billion dollar company.
Per person no what they offered him. No, well, overall about one hundred thousand.
Dollars fifteen thousand dollars. Oh, whoa, I know that.
Was very low estimate. Q be an insulting leave.
Well, this was so insulting.
I tried to be insulting on a purpose, and I still overshot.
I offered this fifteen thousand dollars to a guy who used to run the entire southern California fast food franchise, so he wasn't a dummy. He was very well versed in you know, money and negotiations and all of that. He said. It was such a slap in the face that it was clear to him there's no going anywhere with this. So the NAACP in Penal County called up and said, Dane, you got to get down there and testify at this you know, hearing kne anything about it.
I'd never heard herndole either, and so I had to look up everything, and I called her back and I said, these people don't need it is not going to help for me to get down there and testify. They need a lawyer. He said, well, you're a lawyer. I said, I don't know anything about environmental injustice. This was so clearly a case of environmental injustice. So I don't know anything about environment the environmental law, or I don't know anything about that. Well, you had to find somebody. So
I tried like the devil to find somebody. Time was running out. It had to be filed by January fourth, that happens to be my birthday, and so I couldn't find anybody. Everybody I called in Arizona to do it. Well, we worked for a SRP wow, so nobody could take the case. So I called National League, you know the Louisiana Cancer Zone and all these other cases of Chicago, these places going around with environmental interests. Nobody had time and everybody's busy, so I said, okay, okay, I'll file
the thing and then I'll find somebody. We're going on three years now and I'm still the attorney and the only one, so there we are. So they the community testified at the administrative hearing, lost seven to two. So then we appealed to the Corporation Commission. Sieur Club was also in it with US and Western Resource, so there were three of us fighting Saltwrore project. So then we appealed to the Corporation Commission had a hearing at the
Corporation Commission one four to one. We were hoping three to two, but when we got four to one, we almost fell off our chairs. So we're very happy to see that. So then Saltwur Project, of course wasn't going to take that land down. So then they appealed to the supirit to the Superior Court, and we went to trial on that and we won nice. So finally they
said uncle because they wanted that plant. So then we started a negotiation process and we ended up with a little bit different monetary settlement and the whole plant got moved. It got cut in half, so the pollution is lowered and the site line, you know, it won't be such an eyesore because so it was moved away. Blah blah blah. Diferent things happen, and different amount of money was offered in the next twenty years for the rebuilding of that
community scholarships, job development, community center, health care, transportation. The roads have already there were no roads. Everything was dirt halfs There were no roads or sidewalks or fire hydrants. No fire hydrants. You have no fire hydrants. You can't get insurance on your home. If you can't get insurance on your home, you can't get alone on your home now, can you? Or a mortgage or anything. No new housing had been built in Randolph since nineteen seventy nine.
Yeah, well listen. Rarely do stories have happy endings on this show. So kudos to you and to indeed the entire team that helped to fight that fightfore and the people, and.
They need to be here and tell their story exactly.
But what I want to do is take a moment because I feel like it's important to illuminate exactly what environmental racism and environmental justice looks like when we talk about healthcare outcomes for black and brown people in this country, when we talk about economic empowerment for black and brown people in this country. This example shows exactly how just where you live can affect those two things. Is your zip code, the place that you were born into, the
place where you're raised. You know a lot of for a lot of people in this country, they have zero control over that. That's just where they are there, and there is no mobility because of that. So it's not as simple as just move or just change your circumstances or boots whatever, the bootstrap thing is that physically is impossible. And it was a joke when it was first introduced into popular use in the.
Idea it was supposed to be a joke.
It was a joke.
It literally was a joke.
It was boken newspaper and then late eighteen hundred, early nineteen hundred something like that. But before we wrap up this segment, I do want you to share just a quick fun fact where you were saying you were discussing these these startle reflex and we'll come back with the restricted company bill.
A study has been done and I've got two thousand and eight, and they followed babies when they were very first born. They were babies, what was their startled reflex? And the startle reflex is how you respond to like a sudden noise or a loud particularly a loud noise. You know how babies they can jump and start screaming or they can just lay there and look weird or whatever. So they measured these babies on how strong was their
startled reflex. They followed these babies for thirty years, so they followed them to when they were thirty years old, and then they looked at their political opinions at that time. And what they found was the babies with the biggest startle reflex who were just shocked and scared. That's what you are, You're scared when you're startled like that. Who were the most scared were the most conservative. They wanted nothing to change, They wanted nothing new, They wanted to
stay in the little bubble. They didn't want any anything different. So the babies who were the did not startle and were just curious were most liberal. They liked new experiences, new people, new foods, new countries.
New hadish And the good news is that you could train the babies that were more easily startled.
You can teach them, teach them. You can teach them so that being having something new is nothing to fear. But you have to teach them from when they're small.
Okay, well, you know what, I like this. I'm going to look more into that study. And I felt like that was a nice neat little fun fact. We are going to have to take a pause for the costs and do our housekeeping around here. But I definitely want to come back and discuss the restrictive Covenant Bill and how that might impact communities nationwide. Nationwide exactly, so stick around. Will be back with more