[SPEAKER_00]: when we are anxious about something, when we are worried about something. [SPEAKER_00]: Typically, we are fearing something happening in the future that hasn't yet happened. [SPEAKER_00]: So we're anticipating something happening in the future that hasn't yet happened based on what's happened in the past. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's like this little boy projecting into the future, this fear that he will do everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's ego would do everything in his power to protect him from feeling and going through again. [SPEAKER_00]: So we're living a state of anxiousness. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's why men, like, stay stuck in their head and they struggle to be present in this moment. [SPEAKER_00]: Because their ego isn't such survival, worried about the next thing constantly. [SPEAKER_00]: And they can't just be present. [SPEAKER_02]: Let's go.
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to Citizen, we have a special guest today, Ryan Moore's B. Hi from White. [SPEAKER_01]: What's the hi from about? [SPEAKER_00]: Man, I couldn't tell you, I could tell you, actually someone far down the line married, and Moore's B married a white, and they were like, let's just put it together and make it one word.
[SPEAKER_01]: make it really hard to make it one word though they hi-finated it they hi-finated yeah you get a you get a add things together I think like a celebrity couple names you're right what was the j-j-lo and Jennifer I have no idea Ben Affleck and Jennifer and it was Ben Affleck and Jennifer and it was Ben Affleck and I don't know it's fucking stupid though things down so you [SPEAKER_01]: or the founder of the inspired man project. [SPEAKER_01]: What is that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so basically I work with hundreds of men all over the world. [SPEAKER_00]: I help them heal the little boy and step into their power as men and leaders in the world. [SPEAKER_00]: So what I mean by that is until I'm man, he was the boy. [SPEAKER_00]: the younger parts of him, the immature parts of him.
[SPEAKER_00]: He'll stay stuck at the level of maturity of a little boy, and he'll be in relationship as a boy, and his business as a boy, he'll lack the emotional capacity to deal with business and relationship and family and get easily overwhelmed, turns to behaviors and habits and patterns that don't serve him, like drinking drugs, porn, alcohol, all of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so basically like when a man heals those younger parts of him and steps into his powers a man and he really embodies this whole other level of leadership as the mass as the safe masculine the mature masculine in the world Yeah, really reclaims he's he's sovereignty How'd you get into this kind of work? [SPEAKER_00]: Great question. [SPEAKER_00]: I was in the self-help world for close to a decade. [SPEAKER_00]: It was very much about learning about my trauma.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was intellectualising the wounds and understanding [SPEAKER_00]: You know, the limited ways of thinking, behaving, acting, and Yemen, like there's three levels of learning. [SPEAKER_00]: There's knowing about your wounds and your trauma. [SPEAKER_00]: There's knowing about your bad habits and behaviors and your insecurities and relationship. [SPEAKER_00]: There's then understanding it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So really starting to understand why you do it and where it's come from, which typically all roads lead back to childhood.
[SPEAKER_00]: but then the third piece which is what most people miss is embodiment and it's the actual [SPEAKER_00]: the feeling body going in and actually navigating the grief that separates a man from his head to his heart and cultivating that connection between his head and his heart and also then his balls as well and there's that relationship where yeah that there's a real embodiment piece there and for me it took years of understanding the work knowing about it even teaching it
[SPEAKER_00]: for then being in a relationship to this woman that I gave my entire self to was like this is the fucking mountain that I'm I've planted my sword in this woman will be the mother of my children and it was that that level of commitment
[SPEAKER_00]: and we were living in Bali at the time and I got home from the gym one day and it was a Monday morning things were good business has gone well making money things were happening I was serving all of these men all these guys and then I get home open the door and all the bags of packs just sitting on the bed crying and she left me and I was in this empty villa by myself in a foreign country in Bali
[SPEAKER_00]: and my whole world just collapsed and what happened was my nervous system actually shut down where I like my body just was just in like convulsive shakes for like hours I was vomiting I was throwing up I was just in this whole process but what happened was
[SPEAKER_00]: I was laying on the floor as this twenty five year old boy, but I couldn't tell the difference between that twenty five year old and the seven year old, who was alone on his bedroom floor, who felt so scared and alone when mum and dad separated. [SPEAKER_00]: And it was in that moment I realized a holy shit I have just recreated, the exact thing that I experienced in childhood. [SPEAKER_00]: And now I'm a little boy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a twenty-five-year-old little boy laying on the floor, and my mom and dad have just left again. [SPEAKER_00]: And that was the moment I was like, this is the depth of work. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm done learning about it. [SPEAKER_00]: This is where I need to be from now on. [SPEAKER_00]: And that was almost three years ago. [SPEAKER_01]: What's that? [SPEAKER_01]: So Aristotle and Oregon specifically in posterior analytics says he asked the question, what is it?
[SPEAKER_01]: What is it when do we really know something right in the answer is when we understand its cause now this is two thousand years old for some reason we keep unlearning these very simple truths of our life because we're fucking idiots to be honest somehow between [SPEAKER_01]: Played those conversations and Aristotle's organon, plus the writings of the stoics, Senika, and Marcus Ruiz, and so on, Epictetus.
[SPEAKER_01]: We seem to have, we're so much better at forgetting simple truths, and we are just implementing them and making our lives better for some reason. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what that is. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if it's like a, because it's not difficult. [SPEAKER_01]: People think of these, folding these universal principles, or universal firmatives, or Aristotle call them into our lives, as somehow a chore. [SPEAKER_01]: But to be honest, the return on value is so high.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like eating a chore is breathing and drinking water or whatever. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's weird to think of it that way. [SPEAKER_01]: For some reason, though, we do, we get so distracted socially. [SPEAKER_01]: Or maybe it's that we just have very poor leadership in the West. [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's probably what it is because why would a child know any of this?
[SPEAKER_01]: Then you wake up at however old you were three years ago and realize that in a lot of ways you're still a child, right? [SPEAKER_01]: So it's like what the fuck is happening? [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I wonder about, you know, people who are at the age where they become parents now, it's like, [SPEAKER_01]: We think a lot about, is this the right time to start a family, but we think about it from a financial resources point, not about am I healthy enough to actually be responsible for another such a great point? [SPEAKER_01]: So I wonder, in that moment when you realize this, what's the next step I guess, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because you say you've analyzed the wounds and, you know, [SPEAKER_01]: the common wisdom from Aristotle is that's when you understand it when you know the cause right but you understood the first part you understood the why but or the what rather but you then you have this breakdown now you understand the why and that's kind of the totality of that piece of information right so then what does
[SPEAKER_00]: a huge component to what's caused so much disconnection in today's society, and that's men are disconnected from their grief, like being with the deepest parts themselves in their grief. [SPEAKER_00]: And today's society is very much set up in the way that prevents men from being in their grief. [SPEAKER_00]: As you just said, it's more about when you consider being a father, it's more about your financial position rather than where you are within yourself.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel that that court that you shed [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like why we've become so disconnected from it is because the ego is very complex. [SPEAKER_00]: It creates a lot of story and it creates a lot of complexity. [SPEAKER_00]: The soul, the heart, is very simple. [SPEAKER_00]: So when we come back to our heart, to our soul, our true essence, it's a lot more quiet and things are a lot more simple.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we typically come back to these deeper inner truths that we're spoken about thousands of years ago, back when there were so much more connected to themselves.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I feel like in a world that's becoming where we feel like we're progressing so much further with technology and AI, [SPEAKER_00]: We're becoming even more disconnected from our self over time and why I'm so passionate about sharing this is because this message and this work that I do is because I know the sense of loneliness [SPEAKER_00]: that men are going to be faced with in the sense of isolation and disconnection from their soul, the more we progress with technology.
[SPEAKER_01]: broad studies done already about people that use ChaggbT daily and their IQ has dropped five to ten points over the last two years. [SPEAKER_01]: That's not great. [SPEAKER_01]: And if your IQ is dropping, your IQ is probably dropping as well, especially as a man because those two things are related. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know about with women so much, but with men, your IQ or definitely related. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it's an odd way that we look at these things too.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think if I'm in the gym, for example, and I'm trying to lift some certain amount of weight, I either do or I don't, and if I do, maybe I aim a little higher if I don't, I know I've got some work to do, and I don't, I don't make that a part of my core identity that I've failed that thing today, you know what I mean? [SPEAKER_01]: But even, I feel like I'm a pretty well-adjusted man right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: But when I feel like the things that are important to me are to take care of my people and my family, right? [SPEAKER_01]: That's what matters to me the most. [SPEAKER_01]: And when I fail at that, it hits me pretty hard still. [SPEAKER_01]: No matter how adjusted I get, that still is the thing that hits me the hardest. [SPEAKER_01]: So I always wonder why it's so easy to do the physical part, but so much more difficult to do the intellectual and spiritual parts.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean? [SPEAKER_01]: I think we're [SPEAKER_01]: I think we're very misaligned as men and the solutions that are being offered to men these days are pretty fucked as well. [SPEAKER_01]: Like this, the feminization stuff that's happening is not the solution. [SPEAKER_01]: Like getting in touch in the same way that men or women being equal to men didn't mean that women had to become men, right? [SPEAKER_01]: That's nonsense.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's completely bastardized and corrupted version of what it means to be equal. [SPEAKER_01]: men being equal on the emotional footing didn't mean you had to become like a woman. [SPEAKER_01]: That's not what you were meant to do. [SPEAKER_01]: Your emotions are valuable and they're used as [SPEAKER_01]: I guess you could say guide stones that are used as left and right limits in life. [SPEAKER_01]: Just the same as hunger or cold or whatever the fuck right.
[SPEAKER_01]: If I feel bad about something, I've been socially conditioned to feel bad about it so that I will instead do the right thing. [SPEAKER_01]: I feel joy as a reward for having done the right thing or having become whatever the case is right. [SPEAKER_01]: These are all very important and things that people need to be in tune with in their life. [SPEAKER_01]: If you're, if you're off on that, even a little bit, it'll affect everything in your life. [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like if you don't have a positive relationship with your own emotional experience, and we tend to spend, again, we've been socially conditioned to kind of ignore that. [SPEAKER_01]: And that's not the answer either, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: There's ignoring, this is the difference between [SPEAKER_01]: Freudian and Adelyrian psychology, in my opinion, we'll get into that a little bit more in a moment, but on the one extreme, those ignoring the problem and the other extreme, there's the dwelling on the problem, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And somewhere in the middle is the cognitive behavioral therapy that Adler recommended not the persistent lifelong talk therapy where you blame external tormentors like young and Freud, but Adler says that's your work to do. [SPEAKER_01]: It's your job to [SPEAKER_01]: go get the information, process it, and bring yourself up to the level that a man needs to be, so you can service your community and your family. [SPEAKER_01]: That's the difference.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's unfortunate that we keep making these same fucking mistakes, but I feel like we're not progressing as a society very much. [SPEAKER_01]: It used to be, and this is, I think, part of the natural course of human history, to take two steps forward and one step back, because that's how it works, right? [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's how a lot of things work.
[SPEAKER_01]: Whether you're learning a new skill or something like that but we've started taking two steps forward and then two steps back and then two steps forward and two steps back just persistently every eighty or two hundred years depending on what time period is talking about now different or how much culture changes in those time periods.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't again I can't really put my finger on why it is because [SPEAKER_01]: There's always been good examples of people, you know what I mean, whether they're in your time or some other time. [SPEAKER_01]: It just seems like this phrase, the cream rises to the top, but that's not really true. [SPEAKER_01]: Because the Kardashians are not the cream, especially speaking, they're idiots. [SPEAKER_01]: And nobody should respect those people.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like, [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, maybe we're maybe, I don't like the word we, in a collective sense, because everybody's in the individual, but maybe society's getting what it deserves, you know, by prioritizing stupid bullshit. [SPEAKER_01]: So what does that mean about what you do and what you prioritize and what the effect downstream of that is, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, man, I would say, I would say a lot of the leaders, quote unquote, leaders that [SPEAKER_00]: most of society look up to little boys, all little girls playing power dynamics. [SPEAKER_00]: Yep. [SPEAKER_00]: And this is why and when I'm working with men or I'm in my brotherhood, we see it as like this is the United Nations coming together. [SPEAKER_00]: Like this is [SPEAKER_00]: This is like the real leadership.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is what it means and we've been so disconnected from right to passage and initiation and you know men having healthy role models and representations of masculinity.
[SPEAKER_00]: we're seeing that we're seeing people in leadership positions and leadership roles operating from the consciousness of little boys or little girls and that's just what I what I see and that's why I feel like we it is constantly going circles in a lot of society but [SPEAKER_00]: I feel a huge contributing factor to that as well is that we have become so heavily individualized as well. [SPEAKER_00]: And as humans we are wired for community, for connection.
[SPEAKER_00]: and generationally we've lost that sense of community and connection and brotherhood and sisterhood and you know men going little boys spending more time with the men and the uncles and the brothers and I feel that we've become so disconnected from that and with technology and everything we've become so overly individualised where there isn't that sense of of collective community, collective consciousness yeah and
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd feel that's a huge piece as to if everyone's craving that in some way. [SPEAKER_00]: And I know that when I'm in community with [SPEAKER_00]: men that I truly respect, like I, that's leadership. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't, I don't seek, or see, you know, people in power as, as leaders. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't, I don't see that at all. [SPEAKER_00]: No. [SPEAKER_00]: No. [SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a good, like, for the listener, consider a time when you've had a period of your life where you've had to spend a lot of your time alone. [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe you work in an isolated position or maybe you were sick for a week or two and you were just at your house by yourself and didn't really interact with a lot of people. [SPEAKER_01]: and even for a short period of time, and then consider how much effort it took you to re-enter the group, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And not, like, especially if you're an eight-type man, typically speaking, if you've lived alone for a long time, you're gonna have behaviors that aren't super social, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Because you used to being by yourself, you're gonna have reactions to other people that seem like irritation, and maybe they are to some degree, and maybe it's just like, [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it's just the rough edges, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why we're biologically programmed to serve each other in a community. [SPEAKER_01]: That's why we build cities. [SPEAKER_01]: Otherwise, we would all still be living in the fucking woods, right? [SPEAKER_01]: And ironically, this is why [SPEAKER_01]: This is why the American system of government was designed the way it was federalism, right? [SPEAKER_01]: It's the idea that we were talking about for about individuals. [SPEAKER_01]: Everyone is an individual.
[SPEAKER_01]: But so we try to solve all of our problems at the lowest possible level. [SPEAKER_01]: We call it federalism, right? [SPEAKER_01]: So we try to solve problems here. [SPEAKER_01]: And if not, we will band together and solve them at a higher level if that's necessary. [SPEAKER_01]: The thing that doesn't get articulated that much is that it's the individuals responsibility to the community. [SPEAKER_01]: That's the counterbalance.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you think about nuclear fusion, creating explosions and gravity holding a star together, those are the counterbalances, the push and pull that are holding that thing together. [SPEAKER_01]: If you want [SPEAKER_01]: the individual liberty that people so crave then you have not a duty necessarily but there is a requirement that you serve your community otherwise bad actors will serve that community.
[SPEAKER_01]: as a man this is a whole different kind of situation and you have to make sure and the same way that if a plan on going to war like I have you better goddamn be ready because if not you're going to get yourself another people killed right and maybe every day life is not quite as serious I think it is but the the risk are are muted but the effects are the same right so
[SPEAKER_01]: You're putting yourself whether you want to or not in a position of authority over other people, even by existing to some degree, not authority, but responsibility for. [SPEAKER_01]: And if you're not prepared for that, then you're derelict as a man. [SPEAKER_01]: That's my opinion. [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, I don't think people, like you don't need to go sit in a lake somewhere in hug dudes and scream into the woods. [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's a bit weird.
[SPEAKER_01]: to be honest, I think a lot of this stuff's getting kind of weird, but there's a lot of emotional barriers that men have that are stopping them from being the kind of man that the world needs. [SPEAKER_01]: So what do you think? [SPEAKER_01]: What if you had to say what the most common emotional barriers [SPEAKER_01]: and men are right now. [SPEAKER_01]: What do you think they are?
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of it is the wounded enter boy, what you spoke about before, that just never gets solved. [SPEAKER_01]: This is something we've seen in the veteran community too. [SPEAKER_01]: So people go to war, experience things, post-traumatic stress. [SPEAKER_01]: But one of the commonalities in people that are gun fighters, infantry people and special operators are a lot of them, a great deal than more so than any other group of people in the military have had.
[SPEAKER_01]: problematic childhood. [SPEAKER_00]: Yep. [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: And then it just you're layering, you know, like fucked up shit on top of fucked up shit over time. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I've heard in that in the veteran community, I've one of heard and seen is that the guys who have suffered the most is actually it's just been a perpetuation of what they experienced before they even went to war.
[SPEAKER_00]: They even went to battle of and what you just shared the wounded childhood. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I feel the probably the most common and the most painful and the one that consumes men silently is loneliness.
[SPEAKER_00]: the separation from so or that the illusion of separation so this is where a man will live a life of quite desperation on his own and he will just stay locked in his office just working hide in my hide his work behind his mission is making money [SPEAKER_00]: that loneliness is where he could be in a crowded room or he could have the most beautiful family. [SPEAKER_00]: He could have all the money in the world, yet he still feels alone.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is where you can be in a crowded room and still feel alone. [SPEAKER_00]: But it's the disconnection from your heart, from your soul, from yourself. [SPEAKER_00]: And what prevents us from being connected to our heart or our soul is the unresolved grief from childhood. [SPEAKER_00]: And this is why until a man goes back and reclaims the wounded little boy within him, that's keeping him stuck at such a limited emotional capacity of the little boy.
[SPEAKER_00]: He will continue to operate, not as a man, but as a grown adult child in life. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's why everything is so overwhelming for him. [SPEAKER_00]: That's why relationships are overwhelming for him. [SPEAKER_00]: That's why he loses himself to his work.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why he avoids community and connection because being deeply connected with the brother or being experiencing a sense of intimacy with another man, like looking him in the eye and like you should like being held and supported. [SPEAKER_00]: He will avoid that and he would rather self isolate and not be in community because that reflection will bring up the unresolved grief of his childhood.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he'd rather be on his own and do life alone then [SPEAKER_00]: to deal with the, the, the, the unresolved shame or the fear or the grief of the, of the wounded in the child. [SPEAKER_01]: It's easy. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's the, the results are poor, but the effort is minimal. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: Which is not great. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, and that's, that's usually in life, that is the case.
[SPEAKER_01]: If it's a low effort situation that you're not getting anything out of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah, I think a lot of people, military vehicles, especially, but a lot of just adult men, [SPEAKER_01]: have felt that feeling of being in a room and feeling alone still, which I think is a big problem, you know, because when things, this is another part of this from a mental health standpoint is hormone regulation and the way that our hormones have been disrupted over the last twenty-five years or so, and people have to get that fixed.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't solve any of these software problems unless you solve for that hardware problem, but it is [SPEAKER_01]: Even if things are going well, or even if you, you know, even if things are going well in life, if you're hormone to disregulate it, or even if things are going well in life. [SPEAKER_01]: So to speak, but you still haven't dealt with this intimacy issue you have in a crowded room and you feel alone. [SPEAKER_01]: That's your big trouble now, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because there's nothing physically to improve upon. [SPEAKER_01]: The only way to solve that is to go inward and people have a big issue with that. [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, it's like being blind, [SPEAKER_01]: But you can still tell there's something in the room. [SPEAKER_01]: But you can't, you don't have the sense to observe it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, that little irritation you feel at social interaction, like, I just, I would rather just be by myself or I would rather just hang out with my dogs or whatever, that you're behaving like a five year old who can't regulate their somatic system yet. [SPEAKER_01]: That's what you're doing, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Like you see a kid primarily between like the ages of three and eight where they respond completely irrationally to something, the tantrum phase or whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what you've learned to modulate it as an adult, but you're still experiencing that emotion and that's not good. [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: Like you're not, that's not how I'm in. [SPEAKER_01]: It's supposed to react to things you're supposed to respond and not react. [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: That's the difference between a child and a man. [SPEAKER_00]: That's exactly it.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is the difference between boy and man is the man has the capacity to respond the little boy reacts and that's a great way of putting it is [SPEAKER_00]: The reaction to a situation is a lot more extreme than what the situation is actually provoking. [SPEAKER_00]: So basically the pendulum swings really far one or the other way. [SPEAKER_00]: So when a man's operating from the little boy, he's on like his pendulum swing where he either gets super shut down.
[SPEAKER_00]: Closes off goes quiet. [SPEAKER_00]: Just goes blank. [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't know what to say. [SPEAKER_00]: Just self-isolates. [SPEAKER_00]: Just goes back to doing work, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Or it swings too far the other way where it becomes he collapses emotionally. [SPEAKER_00]: And he just emotionally dumps and he has no containment for there's no bottom to he's emotional experience. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you've become useless in that moment.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: There's nothing worse for a man. [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't mean just for society or even for your family, but for yourself, right? [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the useless man is a cattle dog with no job to do. [SPEAKER_01]: It's anxious, nervous, and irritable, right? [SPEAKER_01]: It's biting at things that it shouldn't be and stuff like that. [SPEAKER_01]: These are all like, there's a [SPEAKER_01]: It's almost like playing a fucking video game.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a bar, there's an energy bar in your life. [SPEAKER_01]: And unless you're expanding the energy in the ways that you're meant to, I don't mean like an energy in the loose sense. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean like literal physical and physical energy, sexual energy, masculinity, all this stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: If it's not being used in the way that's meant to, it will come out in ways that it's not meant to.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what [SPEAKER_01]: people that join terrorist organizations, people that join gangs, people who do mass shootings, these are all symptoms of this very simple item. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh man, right. [SPEAKER_01]: It's the pathology is extremely similar between all these things. [SPEAKER_01]: And it is a desperate need to fulfill the masculine urge without an outlet to do it appropriately. [SPEAKER_00]: No, I mean.
[SPEAKER_00]: For anyone listening, I would suggest looking up on YouTube. [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's called the prison experience. [SPEAKER_00]: So the prison experiment or something like that? [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, not that one. [SPEAKER_00]: It's just one around shame. [SPEAKER_00]: And basically, they get them everyone in this massive prison here in the States, and they all circle up. [SPEAKER_00]: And basically, it's a step in the circle if you've experienced this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Step in the circle if you were emotionally abused as a child. [SPEAKER_00]: Step in the circle if you're your father physically beat you. [SPEAKER_00]: And all of these men who are in prison, all of them are just stepping forward.
[SPEAKER_00]: a lot of what they've the crime that they've committed in the world has been because there's a little boy who's actually just reenacting the trauma because that's all he's ever known and it's it's from the unresolved shame of the of the wounded in a child so
[SPEAKER_00]: like what you just shared there when people go to extremes it's the pendulum the little boy on this pendulum swing throwing him huge tantrum are going to the extremes of things um they say in the in the uh therapeutic world [SPEAKER_00]: to heal is to go from black and white thinking, to grey thinking.
[SPEAKER_00]: So to go from extremes to grey thinking, which is understanding both sides, and then having opinion and standing for what you believe in, and kind of being in the middle instead of being in the extremes. [SPEAKER_01]: This episode is also brought to you by firstformfirstform.com. [SPEAKER_01]: For slash drink and bro is the best protein in the business. [SPEAKER_01]: Protein is the building black and lie folks, it's sad all the time.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So go support them and support us firstform.com slash during your rows as one STPH ORM.com slash during your rows. [SPEAKER_01]: So what do you do? [SPEAKER_01]: And by the way, it's a good way to diagnose yourself. [SPEAKER_01]: If you're reacting at a pocket to a simple shit and your daily life, or if you pay close attention when you're about to experience an unexpected social interaction, especially unexpected.
[SPEAKER_01]: Try to remember to think about how you feel in that moment, and if you feel negative about it, then that's a problem. [SPEAKER_01]: Not everybody is a fucking social butterfly. [SPEAKER_01]: Some people are introverts, and that's fine. [SPEAKER_01]: an introvert is still social, they just get their energy right and usually an introvert gets their energy back home with their person or a small group like their family and the public exposure is what it does it.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have this idea that an introvert is somebody who just wants to be alone all the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're getting close to a [SPEAKER_01]: a social interaction and it's causing anxiety for you or your one just pops on you and you feel like oh fuck I got a deal with this asshole now I mean that's not great unless it is an actual asshole which is possible right but if it's like if if it's just some buddy that you have to deal with that's it's it's it's not really great you need to take a look at that right
[SPEAKER_01]: Because we are social creatures and you have to flex those muscles somehow. [SPEAKER_01]: Now, maybe you do just want to hang out with a couple of people. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like that. [SPEAKER_01]: I do a lot of public events and shit and our fans are crazy and fun to hang out with and shit. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's fun. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm actually quite fortunate in that regard because we just have our people crazy and just like me and kind of like to hang out and do dumb shit.
[SPEAKER_01]: But if it's
[SPEAKER_01]: some kind of business or Hollywood function or anything that it's I'm just like not looking forward to that and that's fine yeah wrong with that I just don't like the crowd to be honest but if it's little things in your life you know like oh the you know I got to have a meeting at work and I just don't want to deal with these people right now you should look at that right yeah little boy yeah it's a bit of an indicator yep that you're trying to be avoided and avoidance is not that doesn't do
[SPEAKER_01]: anything. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't believe in any sort of abstinence. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't believe in any of that shit. [SPEAKER_01]: I think if you have to completely cut something out of your life, then it still has control over you. [SPEAKER_01]: I think that men defeat things. [SPEAKER_01]: That's what you're supposed to do, right? [SPEAKER_01]: So go defeat it. [SPEAKER_01]: So how do you do that? [SPEAKER_01]: This process of [SPEAKER_01]: Now I've identified there's an issue.
[SPEAKER_01]: What do I do in my personal life now to address the fact that, for example, my parents split it seven and that ripped me apart in your case? [SPEAKER_00]: The question that the boy asks in any moment when the boy is active and something's overwhelming for him is how can I get rid of this feeling? [SPEAKER_00]: How can I get out of this? [SPEAKER_00]: Basically it's too overwhelming for the younger part of you, so you don't want to take responsibility.
[SPEAKER_00]: The man asks how much can I be with this? [SPEAKER_00]: with whatever this moment is presenting with me, even though it might be difficult, even though it might be hard, how much can I be with this in this moment? [SPEAKER_00]: And that could be in your relationship and your business, could be you said you were gonna do something and you're not feeling good, but it's honoring your word.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like how much can I be with this in this moment instead of how can I get out of this? [SPEAKER_00]: And beneath that is the feeling is the overwhelming emotion of the little boy that's presenting himself. [SPEAKER_00]: For example, men turning to porn or alcohol or drugs, it's how can I get out of feeling this way? [SPEAKER_00]: Or how can I get out of the silence or the loneliness or the quietness?
[SPEAKER_00]: And the man asks how much can I be with this feeling in this moment instead of distracting from it or avoiding feeling it? [SPEAKER_01]: you should engage in whatever advice as you want to. [SPEAKER_01]: But it should be a supplement to your life, right? [SPEAKER_01]: If you want to go fucking get shit faced with your buddies or whatever the fuck or smoke some DMT in your backyard, which I enjoy doing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: With night, but it's I must look like a lunatic because I'm just got night vision on looking up at the stars. [SPEAKER_01]: But if you want to do wild shit, do it, but don't escape. [SPEAKER_01]: Like you don't have the [SPEAKER_01]: You don't have the luxury as a man of escaping. [SPEAKER_01]: That's not what we do. [SPEAKER_01]: And by the way, the more you do that, the more you escape the bigger of a coward you become when it comes to social stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the less you escape, the more you just face shit head on, the less it affects you over time. [SPEAKER_01]: That is the secret of life is that. [SPEAKER_01]: the weight never gets lighter, you just get stronger and it's seen blighter as a result. [SPEAKER_01]: It's really simple. [SPEAKER_01]: It's the same physiologically as it is emotionally. [SPEAKER_01]: There are some things that are never going to be easy, like if your parent dies or something, that's not going to be easy.
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's a difference between sitting in your grief and feeling it and understanding it. [SPEAKER_01]: finding a way as Adam would say to reframe positive reframing and just like go through the grief period and then start to look back at the positive moments in the life and appreciate it for what it was versus flopping around in the ground like a child. [SPEAKER_01]: Yep, you know what I mean? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's not appropriate.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep, there's a really important piece in the grieving process where you have to stay connected to the adult self, the man. [SPEAKER_00]: Otherwise, you'll lose yourself in the grief. [SPEAKER_00]: There won't be any bottom to it. [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like you being the masculine support. [SPEAKER_00]: for the way I like to imagine, it's like you're putting your hands out, like you're copying your hands to hold water.
[SPEAKER_00]: So how much can I be with this emotional experience right now without losing myself to it? [SPEAKER_00]: But as the man, you have to hold the younger part of you, like the boy who would lose himself in that emotion, and you're gonna hold that younger part of you for that to be felt. [SPEAKER_00]: And to come back to your question about how can [SPEAKER_00]: We start to recognize how some of these things are playing out like for example in social settings.
[SPEAKER_00]: When we are anxious about something, when we are worried about something. [SPEAKER_00]: Typically, we are fearing something happening in the future that hasn't yet happened. [SPEAKER_00]: So we're anticipating something happening in the future that hasn't yet happened based on what's happened in the past.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like this little boy projecting into the future, this fear that he would do everything, he's ego would do everything in his power to protect him from feeling and going through again. [SPEAKER_00]: So we live in a state of anxiousness. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's why men, like, stay stuck in their head and they struggle to be present in this moment. [SPEAKER_00]: because their ego isn't such survival, worried about the next thing constantly, and they can't just be present.
[SPEAKER_00]: So all of these things, the anxiety, the loneliness, the self-isolation, the maybe getting reactive to your partner's emotional expression, there's so much to be said about the nice guy in relationship, the man who loses himself in relationship. [SPEAKER_00]: All of this stuff, a lot of the problems that we experience today, the addictions, the behaviours, the patterns of that we keep replaying and recycling.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's also our first level, but if you see them as trailheads, [SPEAKER_00]: leading down a trail and you follow that trail and you continue to be with the emotion beneath that behavior or that pattern at the end of that trail there'll be a little boy seeking your attention. [SPEAKER_00]: And as the man it's your duty to be the father that he needed in that support he needed in that moment.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And the alternative to that is you just continue reinforcing it, right? [SPEAKER_01]: So you're just making that connection stronger. [SPEAKER_01]: And I would add that there's quite a bit of literal physiological neural reprogramming to be done. [SPEAKER_01]: And there's a number of ways to do that. [SPEAKER_01]: Conditioning a repetition, like, to first understand the cause and then in the moment, create a trigger for yourself to positive reframe.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is what I'm feeling in my brain. [SPEAKER_01]: It's telling me it's this. [SPEAKER_01]: But that's what Adlib recall a private logic. [SPEAKER_01]: It's something that only you believe. [SPEAKER_01]: That's not a real thing. [SPEAKER_01]: If you talk about it in Aristotle terms, he would call that a universal negative, right? [SPEAKER_01]: That's a thing that's simply not true, or actually that would be a particular negative.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's something that's not true for you specifically, right? [SPEAKER_01]: So the solution to that is Adlib says, [SPEAKER_01]: is too positive reframe. [SPEAKER_01]: For example, in your own life, you can think of many examples for this, but I think in a partner thing, right? [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm super into her emotions, because it matters to me that she's taken care of.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's something that I've chosen to do actually, not just for her, but other people that matter to me. [SPEAKER_01]: It's something that I've developed in myself over time. [SPEAKER_01]: But they become pathological. [SPEAKER_01]: It kind of goes back to this saying, did you have a bad day? [SPEAKER_01]: Or did you have a bad five minutes? [SPEAKER_01]: And now you're fucking spiraling as a result. [SPEAKER_01]: That's your job to put the brakes on that process.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can feel her body language or mood changing and the insecurity says this is my fault. [SPEAKER_01]: And maybe it is actually. [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it is. [SPEAKER_01]: So the insecurity says this is my fault or that she's being unfair or how did she think I feel about this? [SPEAKER_01]: Like, okay, why are you? [SPEAKER_01]: How did you turn her? [SPEAKER_01]: dealing with something into something about you. [SPEAKER_01]: That's not really what you're here for.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not seeing to ignore your own emotions. [SPEAKER_01]: But in the moment where you feel a negative emotion, [SPEAKER_01]: Like that. [SPEAKER_01]: I would encourage you to think about it, right? [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, okay. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that didn't feel great for me, but what is that other person need?
[SPEAKER_01]: Whether it's, it doesn't matter who it is in the moment, because it's, again, I'm not telling you to ignore your own shit, but man or biologically programmed to serve other people. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: That's what we do, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: It's like you'll never get [SPEAKER_01]: Every meaningful thing you do in your life will be in the service of other people.
[SPEAKER_01]: Whether it's your family or some of the else and the biological reward you get for that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Seroton and oxytocin and you know even don't mean in the moment will will be [SPEAKER_01]: stronger when you do something for somebody else than anything you will ever do for yourself it is we're not programmed to behave that way and if you if you if you are you're probably a psychopath like a serial killer something they they feel that that's what they feel most people don't what we feel is
[SPEAKER_01]: a deep sense of insecurity that turns into, like, you feel the insecurity, you want to explain it. [SPEAKER_01]: Either I'm bad or they're bad. [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, nope, that's not at all. [SPEAKER_01]: You've taken a massive leap in logic that's not supported in any way by any fact. [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: And that's a big problem too. [SPEAKER_01]: Because now you're stuck. [SPEAKER_01]: with an unfalseifiable, but not data-driven premise.
[SPEAKER_01]: So how to get yourself out of that. [SPEAKER_01]: You've created an epistemology for yourself. [SPEAKER_01]: Epistemology is the Greeks who call it for yourself that is not true. [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess you could call it [SPEAKER_01]: the private logic that Adler refers to and it's like, yep, no, that's that you can't, you can't persist like that because if you do, if you don't, if you don't fix these things about yourself, these emotional triggers, then you're just going to be keeping your head above water for your whole life and we're not built for mere survival, your job is to get to the top of the mountain and then
[SPEAKER_01]: either teach or help other people get there. [SPEAKER_01]: That's your job as a man, right? [SPEAKER_01]: And you will feel feel the most fulfilled when you do that. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely. [SPEAKER_00]: I love that we're speaking about this because that is such a common thing that man experiences when their woman's on OK emotionally. [SPEAKER_00]: He makes it mean it's either my fault or my problem. [SPEAKER_00]: but from the place of the little boy.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I've been to where you just shared it is the shame, is the shame of the wounded in the child. [SPEAKER_00]: So what happens is when a man or when a little boy didn't have the safe space that he needed in childhood to know that he can fuck up and make a mistake and it's okay and love is still there and the lesson is also there as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: When he doesn't have that safety in that support, he starts to become internalized with shame, where his identity becomes revolved and based upon the foundation of shame. [SPEAKER_00]: So basically what happens, a healthy level of shame is, I made a mistake, and that's okay, and I see the lesson. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's guilt versus shame, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Guilt is, I did that. [SPEAKER_00]: It's healthy guilt. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: It's shame is, I am bad.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: It was the way I've heard it. [SPEAKER_00]: Yep, so when she's not okay emotionally or she maybe she even brings to you when it's how you could actually show up better. [SPEAKER_00]: you see it as an attack on your nervous system and the little boy comes out, the little boy who thinks, I haven't made a fuck up, I am a fuck up. [SPEAKER_00]: I haven't made a mistake, I am a mistake where he is shame.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if he in that moment was to just go, okay, I'm gonna focus more on you. [SPEAKER_00]: There's a moment where he needs to attend to her needs, but he has to be with that. [SPEAKER_00]: Otherwise, he's going to lose himself in that relationship. [SPEAKER_00]: and he will continuously take on the weight and the responsibility of her emotional experience.
[SPEAKER_00]: Instead of, and that's a very nuanced piece there, but I want to touch on that per moment, because people could take that in the wrong way. [SPEAKER_00]: And I would love your perspective on this as well. [SPEAKER_00]: Her emotions is her emotional experience. [SPEAKER_00]: is not your responsibility to carry. [SPEAKER_01]: That's her work. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: It's not your responsibility as a man for her to feel safe. [SPEAKER_00]: That's hers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just as it's your responsibility to create safety in your own nervous system and not seek for a mother to nurture you and make you feel good. [SPEAKER_00]: So when a man sees it as, yes, like this is your emotional experience, when he creates that separation and he's no longer responsible for her emotional experience, he can then be the safe space that she's actually needing in that moment.
[SPEAKER_00]: But when he's operating from the little boy, he makes it about himself because he's triggered and then he completely takes it away from what she's actually bringing to him. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you do in the thing. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, to me, that's like fiend or fake masculinity. [SPEAKER_01]: That's not real. [SPEAKER_01]: You're doing the thing that you think you're wearing a costume. [SPEAKER_01]: You're doing anything you think you should be doing.
[SPEAKER_01]: When in reality, [SPEAKER_01]: women want you to be competent more than anything else that's what it isn't hovering doesn't make any anyone if you'll save competence does right you know is and by the way competence not just like being able to fight or shoot guns or whatever the fuck that you're just being aware but competence in so far as you can manage your own emotions yeah if you if you're having breakdowns in small conversations that are kind of irritating
[SPEAKER_01]: What makes you think she's gonna trust you to handle big things? [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean? [SPEAKER_01]: That matters in the same way that children learn more from your behavior than they do from what you say to them. [SPEAKER_01]: Women learn more from your behavior and body language than anything you say or do. [SPEAKER_01]: That's just the way it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, and then I'll add that when you finally, maybe it's not finally, but when you get to that moment where you're being told what's wrong and it's being communicated to you, [SPEAKER_01]: You shouldn't try a couple things. [SPEAKER_01]: You should not try to avoid whatever it is you feel the shame or guilt that you feel in that moment. [SPEAKER_01]: You just gotta get past it. [SPEAKER_01]: You have to experience it and then get past it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you should also look at it. [SPEAKER_01]: look at it on the other end of it as a gift, right? [SPEAKER_01]: But it's not always the case that a woman actually tells you what's wrong. [SPEAKER_01]: And that's the way that they communicate, right? [SPEAKER_01]: They will start communicating with body language first, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Avoiding eye contact to see facial expressions or a lack of intimacy or whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is the first red flag that you're going to see. [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, it's [SPEAKER_01]: it can be complicated sometimes asking them directly isn't always the best solution because they're in defensive mode now right so maybe like think about the last twenty four hours and what's going down gone down try to try to consider at what point was there a need not met you know what I mean [SPEAKER_01]: And maybe it's unreasonable. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, sometimes women are.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes all people are. [SPEAKER_01]: Women have pretty drastic emotional cycles sometimes over the course of a month. [SPEAKER_01]: And maybe that's it. [SPEAKER_01]: So that's a gift too because I don't have to take that personally. [SPEAKER_01]: That's just something that happens. [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean? [SPEAKER_00]: Sheo says a little girl too. [SPEAKER_00]: That comes out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but if you can think of [SPEAKER_01]: like, I probably could have done this better. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, maybe it was just a coincidence she was as irritated at the time, but you still made yourself better. [SPEAKER_01]: It's a no-loose situation. [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: You want to be in? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: People, you know, this is another part of the little boy thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the desperate insecurity where, you know, there are sense out there. [SPEAKER_01]: It's this, um, the sneaky fucker, right? [SPEAKER_01]: The dude that's trying to play on feminine energy to, oh man. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh man, social position. [SPEAKER_00]: Spiritual fuck boy. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's really what it is. [SPEAKER_01]: That is a literal symptom. [SPEAKER_01]: That person's a symptom for real.
[SPEAKER_01]: But somebody that's like in tune with their woman and takes care of her, all the fucking literally every great [SPEAKER_01]: love song throughout all of human history. [SPEAKER_01]: Every love letter was written by men to women and not vice versa. [SPEAKER_01]: Emotional dumps from soldiers during the fucking American Civil War. [SPEAKER_01]: You can go find books that up the letters home and stuff like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you think you're tougher than a dude that fought in the American Civil War, I promise you that you are not. [SPEAKER_01]: You're not more masculine than that guy was. [SPEAKER_01]: And then the fucking late part of the nineteenth century, it's not true.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, we these people think that there's some kind of [SPEAKER_01]: There's some kind of, I don't know, embarrassment of shame associated with, like, loudly loving the person that you're with, that's odd to me. [SPEAKER_01]: And there's a lot of that shit in this fake masculine stress these days. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, man. [SPEAKER_00]: Not fully choosing your woman. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And not being known.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you should, you should [SPEAKER_01]: do things that you're proud of, and then be proud of them. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, like be a man, put your name all the way you say, stuff like that, it matters. [SPEAKER_01]: It may seem in the moment like it's easier to capitulate or to equivocate, but it's not. [SPEAKER_01]: You pay a price for that shit. [SPEAKER_01]: Downstream.
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you think are some [SPEAKER_01]: some practical ways in data life that men can kind of cultivate emotional regulation. [SPEAKER_01]: Because this is the big thing about repairing the boy and you is emotional modulation regulation. [SPEAKER_01]: That's what it really is, right? [SPEAKER_01]: So what are some like practical day-to-day stuff that people can do to address this? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the emotional regulation is the by-product of reclaiming the little boy.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's just the by-product of it. [SPEAKER_00]: in the long run, but a real, a real, simple framework to touch on everything that we've just spoken about. [SPEAKER_00]: I call it, uh, me, you, we. [SPEAKER_00]: Where, as what you just shared before, like, as a man, you're going to have the awareness of your woman's emotional experience and what's going on in her body and noticing her body language and it's beyond words.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can only notice how she's feeling if you're in your heart. [SPEAKER_00]: Like when you're emotionally connected to yourself first and foremost, you'll be more attuned to her nervous system and how she might be feeling. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's in anything. [SPEAKER_00]: That's also leading a business as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's having a emotional achievement to your team members and what they might be needing and how to speak to them in a way that's inspiring, not fucking pulling them down, lifting them up instead of, you know, shitting on them sort of thing. [SPEAKER_00]: It's first you, you first and foremost, so it's me cultivating a relationship with yourself first and foremost.
[SPEAKER_00]: For a lot of men that might feel selfish and what that is working out selfish is a eating healthy selfish. [SPEAKER_01]: That's fucking stupid. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's time with men in nature. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Selfhood? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Like you can't put with your boys go hunting. [SPEAKER_01]: Yep. [SPEAKER_01]: Go fucking fight each other in the woods who cares.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't matter what you do, but yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Men need to prioritize that time massively. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like you need an hour in solitude by yourself, at least a day, every day. [SPEAKER_00]: You need at least a full day to yourself each week. [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, obviously that could be with [SPEAKER_00]: with reason, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: But there should be a day where it's like, hey, this is really me taking care of me today. [SPEAKER_00]: Every few months, every three to six months, you should have a full weekend with men, with brothers in nature. [SPEAKER_00]: And if you're not prioritizing yourself first and being selfish in a way, then that's actually the most selfish thing that you can do, because you can't give them your fullness.
[SPEAKER_00]: So first and foremost, by you cultivating that relationship with yourself, [SPEAKER_00]: everything from becoming aware of where and how the little boy shows up in your life where the insecurities play out the loneliness they're playing small the holding back and I mean there's no quick fix to that that's [SPEAKER_00]: What I would suggest is going back in debriefing on your childhood. [SPEAKER_00]: debriefing on some of the key moments that happened for example.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's cognitive behavioral therapy. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: That's the beginning to the trail head to the emotion that's actually there though. [SPEAKER_00]: So that's what I would suggest is go debrief on some of the major things that happened. [SPEAKER_00]: And it might not be a specific event. [SPEAKER_00]: It could be a period of time where you just felt isolated as a little boy in a load.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we're Lachke kids and I don't know about Australia and the US. [SPEAKER_01]: My generation is the first one where both parents worked for most people, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So summertime and after school time, there was a lot of [SPEAKER_01]: early adolescent time without mom now's hold that as that's a that is a an irregular thing for humanity throughout history right yeah even in more impoverished cultures the kids were with mom as she was working during those time periods now we've got this big gap separation so you look back on you know you're um
[SPEAKER_01]: elementary and middle school years of time that are super-formative and your ability to emotionally regulate and the person who's most one of the people who's supposed to teach you that mom who's there with you all the time just wasn't there not because she didn't want to be right but your somatic system doesn't know the difference yeah [SPEAKER_00]: And when there's a little boy within you that's still craving that, you will crave a mother, not a partner.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and no, I promise you, well actually there's some fucked up girls out there that do like that. [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, yes. [SPEAKER_01]: But they're not healthy people and you aren't either if you want that. [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, you can heal that together too. [SPEAKER_01]: It's not like, yes, you know, obviously the person may react negatively to it. [SPEAKER_01]: You're like, once you realize that you're doing this, you can't, you can do nothing to change the vas.
[SPEAKER_01]: The only thing you can really do is take the next step and the correct direction, right? [SPEAKER_01]: But approaching somebody and saying, hey, I've been [SPEAKER_01]: really relying on you for stuff that I should not be getting from. [SPEAKER_01]: And that's put, you know, a lot of pressure on you specifically, but on this situation as well. [SPEAKER_01]: And look at the results. [SPEAKER_01]: It's not as good as it could be.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, I'm not saying that I want to exit the situation. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm saying that I think there's room improvement here. [SPEAKER_01]: There's a ways to handle this stuff where, you know, the, [SPEAKER_01]: If you can turn your pain and suffering into empathy for other people, especially those closest to you, you can save yourself and them, right, as a man, especially as a leader, you can do that. [SPEAKER_01]: And this is something I encourage people to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't be afraid or nervous or ashamed about trying to make yourself better. [SPEAKER_01]: You don't feel that way, the gym. [SPEAKER_01]: So why the fuck would you feel that way when you're doing this stuff? [SPEAKER_01]: Does it make any sense? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: It's just choosing your initiation. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And that's another thing initiation you mentioned.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Fucking, there's no rights a passage for men. [SPEAKER_01]: That's why we don't have men's groups moving forward.
[SPEAKER_01]: You used to be that your you would stay and there's there's still some right like you would keep hanging out with your frapp brothers which people do know I hang out with my military friend still so we've got that's it's actually why we created drinkabros why Jared my buddy created drinkabros in the first place [SPEAKER_01]: The original tagline, and it was just a Facebook group. [SPEAKER_01]: It was never drink alone again, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So you've got to come back and hang out with your people. [SPEAKER_01]: That is necessary for all human beings, but especially for men. [SPEAKER_01]: And as a result, there's a subgroup in every region of this country now, where people hang out all the time. [SPEAKER_01]: Not all of them even listen to these shows. [SPEAKER_01]: Some of them are just in the group to hang out with each other, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's been very effective as a means of bringing people back together. [SPEAKER_01]: and it should tell you something about how this all works, like how we work as individuals. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, man. [SPEAKER_00]: That's a whole other thing itself. [SPEAKER_00]: The lack of rights of initiation and rights of passage from boy to man in Australia.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's you turn a teen and you have your first beer and you get a part on the back and it's like, okay, like what do you [SPEAKER_00]: What career are you choosing? [SPEAKER_00]: That's it. [SPEAKER_00]: There is no conscious separation between a little boy and his mother as well. [SPEAKER_00]: When that doesn't happen, he doesn't learn how to breathe on his own or stand on his own two feet. [SPEAKER_00]: Coming back to the framework of people can take away.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's first me. [SPEAKER_00]: So you prioritizing, putting yourself first, deepening into your emotional body, creating the awareness of how and where the little boy shows up. [SPEAKER_00]: It's not if he shows up, it's where and how. [SPEAKER_00]: The behavior is the patterns all of it. [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously there's a there's a deeper initiation to actually walk to path of grieving. [SPEAKER_00]: Those unresolved wounds that control men's entire life.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: But that's the beginning. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's first me and then it's you. [SPEAKER_00]: So once once you've fully been with you then you can fully be with a partner then you can fully be with your mission. [SPEAKER_00]: And then it goes from, because I've filled my own cup, because I've fully been with me first, I can be with you fully. [SPEAKER_00]: And then there's the Wii. [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So for example, in relationship, it's because I've been with myself fully. [SPEAKER_00]: I know it's happening in my emotional body. [SPEAKER_00]: I have the achievement to what's happening in your nervous system. [SPEAKER_00]: And therefore, I can lead what the moment needs. [SPEAKER_00]: And maybe I don't even need to say anything. [SPEAKER_00]: It's just what I do.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yep. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I've told people this for a long time, especially in the military, especially people in our military at the command level about the way that we prepare people for [SPEAKER_01]: more specifically, but the lesson implies life as well. [SPEAKER_01]: You wouldn't walk into combat with a rusty weapon, right? [SPEAKER_01]: If you had the option, obviously, but you walk into life with a rusty soul every single day.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you're expecting some kind of positive outcome from that, that's not how life works. [SPEAKER_01]: That why should you expect that as a make the sense. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, not that life is war, that's not the point. [SPEAKER_01]: But the point is that these lessons are universal. [SPEAKER_01]: being fit doesn't just mean your body, right? [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot that goes into that stuff, fitness.
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously there's the physiological stuff with body chemistry and physical fitness and all this stuff, but you know, [SPEAKER_01]: you can I can train my body to get bigger and stronger and faster I can do that anybody can do that you can train your the spiritual side of you to do the same thing right and it has a literal physiological effect you know what I mean
[SPEAKER_01]: The more often you do these right things, the more the feedback loop of biological reward happens and the deeper those instincts get. [SPEAKER_01]: And nothing's stopping you from doing it. [SPEAKER_01]: I think outside of the box sometimes, think a little clever things you can do. [SPEAKER_01]: One that I've personally been doing recently is what I'm driving. [SPEAKER_01]: everybody's a fucking idiot, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: People suck at driving, this is a common refrain, everybody sucks at driving, and it's true, probably me too. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure there are probably more people yelling at me about my driving than I am yelling at other people.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't take it that seriously, I think, honestly, road rage for me is kind of a fun thing because I use it as a way to [SPEAKER_01]: like come up with one liners to talk shit for the comedy show and stuff like that I think it's funny or just for stories I just kind of whatever but one of the things I've been doing lately to [SPEAKER_01]: And I pick little weird shit in my life, just to emotionally regulate sometimes.
[SPEAKER_01]: But one of the things I've done lately is, um, before, instead of just doing what I normally do, which is try to have fun with it. [SPEAKER_01]: Now I'm trying to pause until I actually see the person, let's see their face, um, before I think or say anything specific, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Not, and the purpose isn't to get up next to him if look mom. [SPEAKER_01]: That's not it. [SPEAKER_01]: I've never happened. [SPEAKER_01]: It's like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: The purpose is to delay gratification for emotional response. [SPEAKER_01]: Delaying gratification isn't just about waiting five minutes to eat the cake. [SPEAKER_01]: It's about negative emotions to register still feeding that animal. [SPEAKER_01]: I've engaged in the principle of charity. [SPEAKER_01]: as well, I'm taking that person to the best possible, meaning like, hey, maybe that's an old, you know, maybe there are a fucking six thousand years old and whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think those are, those are both really good elements to just be in an adult male, a man in society, being able to emotionally regulate and modulate is the third one, obviously. [SPEAKER_01]: But it's a result of the delayed gratification. [SPEAKER_01]: That's what creates the ability to emotionally regulate. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's seemed silly, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So one of the questions was how do you program this into your daily life to get better at it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously tackle the big things from childhood, but also understand that you've created neural pathways that are giving you bad data and then take little opportunities to correct that bad data, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: It's like using a pencil eraser to scratch something out and rewrite it. [SPEAKER_01]: It's not easy, but it is simple. [SPEAKER_01]: The solution to this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like just being the credible part of our being human is we have the power to choose in any given moment how we show up in any situation and how we choose to see the world. [SPEAKER_00]: It's a constant choice moment to moment. [SPEAKER_00]: And the most important piece there is how big is your window of tolerance between your reaction and your response. [SPEAKER_00]: and a great way to expand that window of tolerance is through the breath.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the breath work is a tool that I swear by and I live to every single day and it's the remote control to our nervous system. [SPEAKER_00]: It creates that gap in that window. [SPEAKER_00]: of reaction and response. [SPEAKER_00]: So in that moment, you can, yeah, there's many different breath practices, but literally it's like you find yourself triggered, use the trigger as to trigger you into taking five or ten breaths before you respond.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, and then you can say, I'll do whatever the fuck you want, but I'm sure you've had that window to actually think about it. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know what the, I don't know if there's a physiological effects specifically from the breathing, but there is from the distance. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you're creating, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: But I do, I also, I, I pretty sure there's something about the breathing too, so, um, [SPEAKER_01]: in some sear schools and to pilots specifically, they teach box breathing as a methodology to get to sleep. [SPEAKER_01]: If you're at a situation where you've got to catch a couple of hours, the dudes that drop those bombs on a ran not too long ago. [SPEAKER_01]: That was a thirty-five-hour round trip flight. [SPEAKER_01]: They didn't wear one to wake the whole time.
[SPEAKER_01]: One guy's awake the other guy's asleep. [SPEAKER_01]: So you got to sleep in a fucking aircraft traveling eight hundred miles per hour or whatever. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure it's noisy. [SPEAKER_01]: There's no way it's not. [SPEAKER_01]: So they do box breathing techniques to get themselves asleep. [SPEAKER_01]: So there is definitely a physiological part to it too. [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely. [SPEAKER_01]: That's how you know something is universally true.
[SPEAKER_01]: If there is a social or spiritual element or benefit to it and a physiological element, benefit to it, that is a universal truth. [SPEAKER_01]: It's something that you can exercise.
[SPEAKER_01]: And probably, I encourage people to think [SPEAKER_01]: outside the box a little bit and like how what are some other things that are like that that I've experienced my personal life or how could I take this thing that I now know to be a universal truth and apply it in other ways because it just makes you more resilient. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah man. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I think snipers use it too. [SPEAKER_00]: Breath right they use box breathing and yep.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's good stuff so you know these aren't a lot of it sounds You know to the male mind woo or stupid or silly or childish or whatever, but it's really just [SPEAKER_01]: We're not super complex, you know what I mean from the physiological side.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a couple of different hormones that affect us, reward our punish us, and we have neural pathways that create shortcuts because our brain is a sophisticated engine to determine between threads and benefits, and it's most efficient when there are shortcuts. [SPEAKER_01]: That's it, right? [SPEAKER_01]: It's really that simple. [SPEAKER_01]: So you can program it, however you want to. [SPEAKER_00]: Yep. [SPEAKER_01]: So I don't want to hear you bitch or moan.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's up to you. [SPEAKER_01]: You're the one that's in charge of that fucking body. [SPEAKER_01]: You're the pilot of your body, so get it fucking fixed. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, man. [SPEAKER_00]: I think the most simple practice in that is it's been studied that you can't be angry and grateful at the same time. [SPEAKER_00]: So in any moment, it's a how can you find gratitude for this moment, for this person, for this lesson, for whatever it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, the practice of gratitude, I know it's very, it's been, it's been hammered. [SPEAKER_00]: Everyone speaks about it, but it is such one of those universal truths, where it is just a very simple thing that someone can practice in a moment like that. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: It's good advice. [SPEAKER_01]: All right. [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to go do a funny one now and talk shit about Australia for a while.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're probably going to get arrested when you go. [SPEAKER_01]: If you ever go back. [SPEAKER_01]: But tell everybody where they can find you and know all your work and products and whatnot. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So Ryan Moore's Be White Instagram Facebook YouTube. [SPEAKER_00]: I post heaps of just free value educational content for people to consume. [SPEAKER_00]: So if anything came up today, go check my page and it'll make more sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: I run a program called the Inspired Man Project and that's where as I shared at the beginning, it's a four month journey, initiation for a man to go through from boy to man to leader and then that is a real tight brotherhood of man all over the world and it's [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, man. [SPEAKER_00]: So that's my main work and then obviously just sharing the message. [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry. [SPEAKER_01]: Good. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Why appreciate it coming today?
[SPEAKER_01]: Good stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: It's something that we ignore. [SPEAKER_01]: Usually we choose to ignore it because we're afraid to face it from this part, right? [SPEAKER_01]: But don't be a bitch. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: That's it. [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for coming there, appreciate it. [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks, brother. [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for having me. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you all for listening to this.