305 | Former Navy SEAL Rick Andstrom

[SPEAKER_01]: because of traumatic brain injury and the exposure to repetitive blast injury, it's again, I've seen friends who were older than me that when I didn't make it the other first time. [SPEAKER_01]: So it was about ten years, but like a few friends, I knew that I saw significant changes in their personalities in a negative way after about ten years. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's interesting because it's the admiral of MSW, right, of the seal teams.

[SPEAKER_01]: They have undiagnosed traumatic brain injuries. [SPEAKER_01]: And they're leaning, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Now I'm not saying they're all fucked up, but it does affect the executive functioning and decision-making and all the other stuff that goes along with repetitive blast, you know, and the endocrine stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: So we have everybody in that entire community that's dealing some level of the effects and consequences of traumatic brain injury. [SPEAKER_02]: Let's go.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I want to say this, and we got a special guest today, Fortman ABC Hill, Rick, and Ström, how's it going? [SPEAKER_00]: Awesome, man. [SPEAKER_00]: Appreciate having me. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we just, we did a drink of rose. [SPEAKER_00]: What, two weeks ago? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't, I can't keep track of what day it is. [SPEAKER_00]: I know that I find in this building as a weekday, and that's pretty much the end of it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, let's get into your history a little bit before we get into some of the things we're going to talk about today. [SPEAKER_01]: Where did you grow up? [SPEAKER_01]: And I grew up in North of Houston, a place called Kingwood. [SPEAKER_01]: Kingwood. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I was born in Minnesota, but came down here in those five. [SPEAKER_01]: Why?

[SPEAKER_01]: Mom got divorced and remarried and brought my brother and sister and I, down to Houston, get away from my dad, I think. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it was Houston like back in the day. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Houston was a shit hole back in the day. [SPEAKER_01]: I've tried not to go back as much as possible, but I've understood. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I had, you know, it had its cool places when I was growing up.

[SPEAKER_01]: I lived in a separate north of it called Kingwood, but Houston itself had cool little pockets, but it was still it's just unzoned area. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you're driving through strip clubs and ghettos and nice areas all kind of in our next. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know much about Houston except for what do you call it? [SPEAKER_00]: The woodlands, I guess, is pretty nice. [SPEAKER_00]: Kingwood is the original woodland. [SPEAKER_00]: OK, so that makes sense.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: It was just a bunch of farm area back in the day that's been, there's like a bunch of stuff there now. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's pretty, it was fucking crazy. [SPEAKER_01]: We literally, it was like a little pocket. [SPEAKER_01]: OK. [SPEAKER_01]: No, I'll just give you an example. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it was, it was Texas through and through around us. [SPEAKER_01]: But there's little suburban pocket back in nineteen ninety two, I think.

[SPEAKER_01]: He member David Letterman. [SPEAKER_01]: Remember there's top ten countdown that he had. [SPEAKER_01]: He did the top ten snobbies, high schools in the United States. [SPEAKER_01]: Beverly Hills was number one and Kingwood was number two. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh wow. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: But I grew up lower fucking middle. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I grew up with a single mom and you know, I drove in nineteen, seventy, six, four grand Torino.

[SPEAKER_01]: That bought for five hundred bucks. [SPEAKER_01]: That's funny. [SPEAKER_01]: Did you sit on your front porch and yell at Asian people? [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think there are any Asian people there. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And ironically, we had one kid in my high school class of like, six hundred people, maybe might have been one more and the end of it. [SPEAKER_01]: the only black kid in the class that they imported to pay.

[SPEAKER_01]: Payed his family to come there to play football. [SPEAKER_01]: And ironically his name was Tray White. [SPEAKER_01]: So that's pretty funny. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, you know, he needed some street cred, I guess. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think I could go to the suburbs. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So grew up in Houston. [SPEAKER_01]: What'd you do in high school? [SPEAKER_01]: I did the quintessential thing that a six foot two guy would do. [SPEAKER_01]: I did gymnastics.

[SPEAKER_01]: What do you mean gymnastics? [SPEAKER_01]: I was on a high school gymnastics team. [SPEAKER_01]: I've never gone to a high school that had a gymnastics team. [SPEAKER_01]: Kingwood. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, a diving team. [SPEAKER_01]: Gold, gold, gold team. [SPEAKER_00]: Some Dallas in Houston are weird cities in that regard. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you're not going to find that shit in San Antonio with a mountain. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: But, yeah, Dallas, like the same with Houston to some of God in the suburbs. [SPEAKER_00]: And then Texas in general sports are pretty serious here. [SPEAKER_00]: All of them. [SPEAKER_00]: Hell yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Like you've got

[SPEAKER_00]: travel soccer teams that start at like ten eleven years old yeah and you have to like get into the pipeline if you want to be serious player later on otherwise it's pretty difficult to get in that's ridiculous let me dripping spring says a seven great shooting club shooting like guns yes that's dope no it's fucking crazy um what are they training kids for the Olympics or something um no it's like ski shooting type stuff oh i see okay oh that's good but um i can't ski true

[SPEAKER_01]: bring you to the gym and teach you to speak. [SPEAKER_00]: My problem is, I'm just so used to point shooting, that lead shooting like that doesn't make any sense to me with a shotgun. [SPEAKER_01]: A few of the drills we have, so the reason I, another buddy of mine that was a seal lives here in European Springs, I grew up with him. [SPEAKER_01]: What's his name? [SPEAKER_01]: Scott Cainan. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think I know. [SPEAKER_01]: I actually might know him.

[SPEAKER_01]: But he was on, he knew a guy that was on the system, our conflict kinetics system that we use at Mercury, and he was shooting [SPEAKER_01]: with all of our drills, you know, and there's a lot of like scattered drills and eye tracking and an ambushing type stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: He went out and he's not even a skit shooter with an AR-fifteen or an M-Four. [SPEAKER_01]: He was shooting skeet and hitting the break aparts with an M-Four. [SPEAKER_00]: So with an M-Four, it's just Christ.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's just working. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, my problem is that like I understand trapping and tracking and stuff like that, but so after I can trap after if after I see a couple fly, I just know where it's going to be and I sit there and shoot and I can hit them that way, but that's not the point, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: The point is to be good at [SPEAKER_01]: tracking in my opinion well here's the thing out anything outside your visual field of fifty degrees right or fifty percent excuse me of your visual field you're the sick the sick aid of your eye movements can no longer track it right so if you if it's going too fast you have to learn how to ambush your eyes can continually check back in right to be able to ambush and hit that whenever it's it's [SPEAKER_01]: at that point.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like some combination of trapping and tracking. [SPEAKER_00]: Yep. [SPEAKER_00]: That's weird idea of that. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know anything about that. [SPEAKER_00]: So I should probably learn how to do it just for funds. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't really see myself being a bird hunter necessarily. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I just don't care enough to do that and cows are easy to kill. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: It's a walk up and shoot them right at the face.

[SPEAKER_00]: They don't even see a common tooth. [SPEAKER_00]: No. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I've never been bird hunting before though, but it's, you know, trap shooting seems pretty fun. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: You didn't grow up like shooting everything. [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, just rifles. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Not shotgun so much. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I remember I was talking to somebody about this the other day.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was six or seven years old. [SPEAKER_00]: My brother's two and a half three years old of me. [SPEAKER_00]: And we would be in my grandpa's back there that huge piece of property. [SPEAKER_00]: We'd be in the backyard, shooting a twenty-two at a tree on supervised. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you know what I mean? [SPEAKER_00]: That's how I learned how to shoot.

[SPEAKER_00]: Luckily, my dad and him and my other grandfather were all in the military, so I didn't learn stupid shit, which is, you know, we can talk about that too, I guess. [SPEAKER_00]: You probably dealt with it less than I did. [SPEAKER_00]: But a lot of people come into the military with really bad habits, shooting wise, people that have shot before.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And you've got to, like, I took, so I had [SPEAKER_00]: I got an expert infantry badge, and then we deploy, come back, and then we start, we do EIB again. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a cadre at this time, and I'm trained in my got my squad for it. [SPEAKER_00]: And I had all three of the dudes, or my team, rather, all three of my dudes were very inexperienced shooters and like, perfect.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's so easy to teach somebody to, especially to shoot from three firing positions on a flat surface. [SPEAKER_00]: You could teach anybody to do that. [SPEAKER_00]: Literally anybody can learn how to fire a weapon in my opinion. [SPEAKER_00]: That's one of the things you do which won't get into here in a few, but you're a high school gymnast. [SPEAKER_01]: And then the military.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: The reason I did gymnastics is because I got into martial arts in middle school. [SPEAKER_01]: I saw Rambo. [SPEAKER_01]: Like tumbling and stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, oh yeah, I did all the things. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, rings and high bar and bar is not that stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: Like the floor of the best, but the reason I got into was to help my martial arts. [SPEAKER_01]: The floor, so you're like doing backflips and shit. [SPEAKER_01]: I do a back flip.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm fifty-five every year on my bat in my birthday. [SPEAKER_01]: I do a standing back flip. [SPEAKER_01]: You can look on my Instagram or Facebook every year. [SPEAKER_01]: November, fourteenth. [SPEAKER_01]: I do a standing back flip. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no point in my life have I even attempted to do a back flip. [SPEAKER_00]: I was just the one thing I kept on. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah fair enough.

[SPEAKER_00]: Not the rings though because your shoulders would probably explode at this point. [SPEAKER_00]: I can barely put my arms above my head. [SPEAKER_00]: So you leave, you graduate, do you go right into the Navy after high school? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a, I mean, the interesting story again, I did and I, again, it took me ten years, but three attempts over those ten years to, to make it through butts.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that was kind of the part, I think I might have mentioned on, on the last podcast, but yeah, where it took that between my second, third time me really developing my mental game. [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, with the physical part, you know, it was easy for me. [SPEAKER_01]: Sure. [SPEAKER_01]: And it was the having stress fractures and partially torn and discous and, you know, partially torn quadricep going through buds. [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: That, it was like, I kept going to medical. [SPEAKER_01]: I kept washing out. [SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't until I realized it. [SPEAKER_01]: everybody fucking gonna make who makes it through Buds is injured.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, probably a just a large capacity and when I finally made it through after doing a lot of the mindfulness meditation, visualizations, all these different things before my third time when I went back Buds was an easy but it was very doable because I could chunk it out the more present the moment I, you know, and I graduated with the same injuries in plus one that I had the fucking first two times I went through. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's like a lot of [SPEAKER_00]: really interesting things about the human brain and body. [SPEAKER_00]: Women are actually quite a bit more complex than we are the way that the way that their bodies interface with the child, especially in the early years. [SPEAKER_00]: So the mothers, this is fucking crazy, but the mother's body can tell if the baby is nutrient deficient and certain nutrients based on the physical contact to the nipple.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then it'll start producing more of that nutrient for the baby. [SPEAKER_00]: That's fucked up. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like some kind of robot bullshit. [SPEAKER_00]: It's crazy. [SPEAKER_00]: But even everybody's bodies, the way that we produce DMT to dream and also to, you can [SPEAKER_00]: debate what the purpose is, biologically of it, but near death experience is also your brain just floods with DMT.

[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of people think that it's a prep for transition into whatever's next, who knows, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it's just a self-defense mechanism. [SPEAKER_00]: But also, one of the other things is that people that are going to do difficult things should know is that you're [SPEAKER_00]: your body is kind of designed to protect and heal itself to some degree, and you can activate some of these things.

[SPEAKER_00]: So for example, when you're in pain, the anticipation of relief from the pain will make your body produce natural analgesics that will treat that pain. [SPEAKER_00]: So when you're at a stressful, even like stressful or painful situation or whatever it is, cold hot, whatever, the anticipation of relief from that thing will, you can even do it as a mantra.

[SPEAKER_00]: You have some kind of emotional distress, and we have the option to catastrophize, which is what most people do these days and make a part of their identity, and I have a victim for the rest of my life. [SPEAKER_00]: Or you could say, you know, in a week, probably going to be fine. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to think about that for a minute, and then your somatic system overlaps really happens like that. [SPEAKER_00]: So you've got a lot of control.

[SPEAKER_00]: We think that the [SPEAKER_00]: mind controls the body and it's some degree that's true, but the inverse is also true because if you are in a bad mood and you force yourself to watch comedy and like physically smile or and put your shoulders back those two actions specifically will make your body produce more serotonin. [SPEAKER_01]: I think the mind is, I think the body and words or thoughts, I think those are actions of the mind.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I think, again, what you're talking about, I just did a year-long advanced meditation program discussing all of that and the people who [SPEAKER_01]: We're allowed to do it, or we're accepted in the program, had to have a mystical experience with psychedelics to kind of show them during the meditation, kind of to your point that we can kind of like with DMT, we can kind of achieve these things outside of psychedelics, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: But having that reference point at the top of the mountain and what that DMT experience is like, or the mystical experience, then we have a reference point to how we can train. [SPEAKER_01]: Do you remember Rage Against Machine? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, they rage for the machine now. [SPEAKER_01]: Really? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So you remember the album cover, the Buddhist monk on fire? [SPEAKER_01]: So do you know the story behind that? [SPEAKER_01]: No, I don't.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: So that was protest of Vietnam War. [SPEAKER_00]: But the guy that self-emulated. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: That was one of twenty-seven Buddhist monks that did that. [SPEAKER_01]: Was that in New York? [SPEAKER_01]: No, I think it was in Vietnam. [SPEAKER_01]: There was a guy in New York that did it some time in the seventies. [SPEAKER_01]: Anyways, keep going.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, twenty-seven of them, and they prepared, I know the one guy that's on the album cover. [SPEAKER_01]: I think it was like for a month. [SPEAKER_01]: He trained.

[SPEAKER_01]: his mind to be able to sit there stoically and not be attached to that pain so that is the extreme example that our mind is absolutely has the ability to I don't know to kind of detach itself or disassociate more change the relationship with that pain and not be But like you said kind of you know the ego is yeah, I can really get attached.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think we we [SPEAKER_00]: I think there's a misunderstanding because we say the word dissociate and what we mean when we say it for most people I can't want to assume what anybody else is thinking about what I think of it. [SPEAKER_00]: I think of dissociating the mind from the body. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think the mind and the body are separate things to me. [SPEAKER_00]: Those are both physical things and the self is something that's non-physical.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think the brain and body [SPEAKER_01]: or the same mind. [SPEAKER_00]: The mind is the self, whatever you are. [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, we think of our brain as something else, but it's not. [SPEAKER_00]: That's just part of the meat sack that we're walking around in. [SPEAKER_00]: And it's chemicals and neurons and electricity for the most part, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Just stuffed into a bunch of fat.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think when we think of dissociation, we're thinking about [SPEAKER_00]: interrupting the brain and the body, but that doesn't make any sense. [SPEAKER_00]: That's not even possible, frankly, right? [SPEAKER_00]: It's the wrong way to think about it, the right way to think about it is that, and you can prove this right now scientifically that you are not your body, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And the way I can prove it is that [SPEAKER_00]: every two to ten years depending on your level of activity, the kind of food you eat and what level of law and environmental factors, every atom in your body, not sell atom, every atom in your body is different, your brain, your hair, your teeth, your eyes, it's all, nothing is the same. [SPEAKER_00]: After for somebody like us that exercises and eats well, it's a lot of protein, it's like maybe five years at the outset.

[SPEAKER_00]: So every five years you're completely due to physical being, right? [SPEAKER_00]: So that can't be you. [SPEAKER_00]: Right, so you know that it's not so you know the question is what is and then how can I tap into that because if I'm going to spend all this time Managing healing, training, conditioning, whatever my physical body, what am I doing for this other part that's driving the whole goddamn thing you know what I mean?

[SPEAKER_00]: That's my biggest thing man [SPEAKER_01]: That is my biggest thing is like we spend so much time on looking at external things, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Extrinsic things to either feed our own happiness, to feed our whatever or whatever in life. [SPEAKER_01]: But it's in my opinion, it's the mind that's a strong thing that controls all else in a good way, not controls. [SPEAKER_01]: But it's, you know, I talked about the non-judgmental thinking stuff last time.

[SPEAKER_01]: But with me, when I was training myself, it was about a four month period. [SPEAKER_01]: to where I started becoming aware of my thoughts and the shit I was talking about others and myself and situations in life. [SPEAKER_01]: And it was like once I became aware of it, I'd be like, hey mother fucker, hey old Rick. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, awesome. [SPEAKER_01]: You've served me well your entire life.

[SPEAKER_01]: Go ahead and get in the back of the bus mother fucker because the true Rick's driving now. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and I had to have those conversations with myself. [SPEAKER_01]: And I still have moments. [SPEAKER_01]: But for the most part, I think I'm pretty nonjudgmental dude. [SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's served me well. [SPEAKER_01]: So allow me to see people for who they are.

[SPEAKER_01]: not even for who they are you know that sounds like a judgment it but I'm saying it's it's again, it's just just observe and yeah, especially for fucking just talking with people it's like yeah, you can realize people are pretty fucking interesting they are yeah, and I think you know with the just we're in a constant battle [SPEAKER_00]: against tribalism in a lot of ways because the brain is wired for efficiency. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think this is a negative thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a positive thing. [SPEAKER_00]: It's a, it grounds you and then you're job is to overcome it to some degree, right? [SPEAKER_00]: So gravity grounds you, but we built airplanes and now we can fly. [SPEAKER_00]: And the same way this tribalism is the result of, it's not about hating other people. [SPEAKER_00]: It is that your brain is a very complex machine that determines between threats and benefits. [SPEAKER_00]: That's the purpose of it, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And then, you know, the mind is something entirely different, but you still have to manage the brain. [SPEAKER_00]: So patterns are the best way to do that, both social and physical patterns, whether it's site, smell, whatever. [SPEAKER_00]: And to make it more efficient, our brain builds shortcuts. [SPEAKER_00]: And it does this also with social behavior.

[SPEAKER_00]: So when we're [SPEAKER_00]: talking about the healing journey as it were, especially for people that have gone through traumatic experiences or not even necessarily traumatic experiences but prolonged exposure to heightened levels stress.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's probably worse than the like there's this trope of some dude holding his body as he bleeds out and that's the thing that haunts him for the rest of his life but most people that have post-traumatic stress that's not what it is. [SPEAKER_00]: I've been at a ten for so long. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how to exist at a zero anymore, because I should be able to go from zero to negative four, zero to ten, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like you don't want to get too depressed, but you want to be somewhere, your baseline should be something, like something near zeros, from minus two to positive two, if you're a curmudgeon or a fucking, you know, one of those people that are paying it all the time. [SPEAKER_00]: We think of, we think of these things this way. [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, the height and stress and everything.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's about kind of, you know, bringing ourselves back into it, you know what I mean, and re-engaging and this stuff. [SPEAKER_00]: I think one of the things, I'm a big, I'm really big into Adlerian psychology. [SPEAKER_00]: I think that Freud was a lunatic. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I appreciate the fact that he did a lot of cocaine, but aside from that, I'm not a huge fan. [SPEAKER_00]: He taught people to be career victims.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've got to spend the rest of my life figuring out what's wrong with me, and it's probably somebody else's fault, whereas Adler says this is your work to do. [SPEAKER_00]: You're job is to be a net benefit to society, and you can't do that if you're dragging your ass around whining about shit all the time. [SPEAKER_00]: There's a number of ways that you can go about doing that stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think one of the most important [SPEAKER_00]: from from Adler's perspective is that [SPEAKER_00]: You have to, there's a couple of steps that are really important before you can move on to the last step. [SPEAKER_00]: So Adler would say you need to eliminate private logic. [SPEAKER_00]: Private logic is something that only you believe about yourself, typically, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Like I'm, and this is something that our community deals with a lot.

[SPEAKER_00]: It stems from not being able to reconnect into society or endocrine disruption or the moral injury of survivors guilt primarily, stuff like that, like Adler deserve to be here. [SPEAKER_00]: And as such, I have no value. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, well, your children, thank you have value. [SPEAKER_00]: The people that you work with, thank you have value.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like anybody that you communicate with on a regular basis, no, things you have value, otherwise they don't communicate with you. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And you are the one that's choosing to isolate, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Judging. [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: So that's private logic. [SPEAKER_00]: That's logic that only belongs to what Adder called it. [SPEAKER_00]: It only belongs to you. [SPEAKER_00]: And it's something that's not empirically true, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: If you look at, [SPEAKER_00]: like Aristotle's organ on from the universal affirmative and universal negative, and then the particular affirmative and negative. [SPEAKER_00]: This is a particular affirmative for you, but only in your head. [SPEAKER_00]: You're reading it as a particular affirmative. [SPEAKER_00]: It's only a particular negative in reality. [SPEAKER_00]: And then he recommends using creativity to reshape your mind. [SPEAKER_00]: We call it positive reframing.

[SPEAKER_00]: One of the best ways, I think, [SPEAKER_00]: to illustrate this is in a political discourse part because I think you can it it shows the fundamentals of how it actually works so I don't even know what your politics are but I'm I guess you could say I hate the government right and I don't think it should even exist in the form that it does right now but it does so we'll deal with it but

[SPEAKER_00]: One of the hottest debated topics over the last, like, forty years in American politics is healthcare. [SPEAKER_00]: And somebody on the left would say, I think that we should have universal or free healthcare. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, okay, like alarm bells are going off in my head. [SPEAKER_00]: Nothing's for free. [SPEAKER_00]: That's a nonsense statement. [SPEAKER_00]: Right, but let's back off for a second. [SPEAKER_00]: I want to take this person.

[SPEAKER_00]: I use example lots of people who are probably tired of hearing a book. [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's important to hammer it home. [SPEAKER_00]: What this person is actually saying is that, and the richest country in the history of the world, it might be unethical to tell people they can be as healthy as they can afford to be.

[SPEAKER_00]: When the government is taking forty percent of their money, charging them property taxons, should they already own for the rest of their life, stuff like that, right? [SPEAKER_00]: It's probably unethical that they're reaching into our wallets, and that we can't get decent health care. [SPEAKER_00]: I think I would agree with that, actually. [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's a pretty solid statement.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if I can back off of my tribalism a little bit, [SPEAKER_00]: and positive reframe is out of their calls and meet this person at the point of agreement. [SPEAKER_00]: Now we have some talking to do. [SPEAKER_00]: And this is something that you, and then the third thing is to find positive social interests, that is to say, serve your community, which is what we're built to do. [SPEAKER_00]: It's a reason we built all this shit.

[SPEAKER_00]: like men go out and build walls to keep the dragons out. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right? [SPEAKER_00]: That's the whole the entirety of civilization is only about that. [SPEAKER_00]: That's the it would by a lot of the program do that stuff. [SPEAKER_00]: And then to strive for for personal significance as well to like to be the best you can be at whatever you're doing. [SPEAKER_00]: And the final thing is to live in the present.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think you can do that without accomplishing these other things, right? [SPEAKER_00]: So it's like a pretty clear road map. [SPEAKER_00]: How come? [SPEAKER_00]: Because if I'm [SPEAKER_00]: If I'm not actively engaged and the things that I'm designed. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you mean you. [SPEAKER_01]: I get what you've said you said you can't do those other things if you're not present. [SPEAKER_01]: Is that what you're saying?

[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, I'm saying that you can't live in the present unless you're doing these other things. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: If you haven't tackled the lies you tell yourself. [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: If you haven't [SPEAKER_00]: learned how to see the world in the positive light that it is and if you haven't found your purpose specifically and if you haven't found the motivation to strive for excellence in that purpose.

[SPEAKER_00]: then I don't think it's possible to live in the moment because you always will have anxiety about the future or remorse about the past. [SPEAKER_00]: And that is no way to live. [SPEAKER_00]: That's no way to live, right? [SPEAKER_00]: You're basically a scab, right? [SPEAKER_00]: You're a scab you're healing permanently. [SPEAKER_00]: That's not what we're meant to do. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's good shit. [SPEAKER_01]: Not like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you go, we got pretty deep there for a second. [SPEAKER_00]: No, I like them. [SPEAKER_00]: You went to the Navy and we talked about on drink and read you can go see that whole story over there. [SPEAKER_00]: But took it wild and get there and then as a result, [SPEAKER_00]: You were probably quite a bit mentally stronger than some of the dudes who were just too dumb to quit. [SPEAKER_00]: Which is a big thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Most of my friends who were Navy SEALs are too dumb to quit. [SPEAKER_00]: And then they get smarter as they get older. [SPEAKER_00]: Not smarter is not the right word. [SPEAKER_00]: They weren't stupid before. [SPEAKER_00]: They just got like, you get more emotionally mature and you're like, damn the socks. [SPEAKER_00]: Then you realize it sucks. [SPEAKER_00]: You're like, fuck, I can't believe I did that shit.

[SPEAKER_00]: But for some people that are going into it, [SPEAKER_00]: that are already a little bit, I had emotional EQIs. [SPEAKER_00]: It could be pretty tough, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think it makes you time to flip-flop, too. [SPEAKER_01]: I've seen because of traumatic brain injury and the exposure to repetitive glass injury. [SPEAKER_01]: Again, I've seen friends who were older than me that wouldn't, I didn't make it the first time.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it was about ten years, but like, [SPEAKER_01]: a few friends that I knew that I saw significant changes in their personalities in a negative way after about ten years. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's interesting because it's the admiral of MSW, right, of the seal teams. [SPEAKER_01]: They have undiagnosed traumatic brain injuries. [SPEAKER_01]: And they're leaning, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Now I'm not saying they're all fucked up, but it does affect the executive functioning and decision-making and all the other stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: that goes along with repetitive blast, you know, and the endocrine stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: So we have everybody in that entire community that's dealing with some level of the effects and consequences of traumatic brain injury. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's likely they're starting to be a little more open to it. [SPEAKER_01]: Not great.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: We call it, I guess, I don't remember who coined the phrase, but it's operator syndrome. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So you just have read the whole thing and lived it. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, it's the [SPEAKER_00]: the repetition exposure to head injuries like that over time. [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't matter if any of them are major by the way. [SPEAKER_00]: So it does matter if you get obviously major impacts.

[SPEAKER_00]: So second impact syndrome is real and it will fuck your brain up. [SPEAKER_00]: If you get [SPEAKER_00]: hit hard in the head, and then within the next two weeks or so you get hit hard in the head again, you need to take about a year off to heal your brain. [SPEAKER_00]: That's, I mean, it sucks, but that's the way it is, man. [SPEAKER_00]: That's why I like to tell them about the football player. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: It's all that's what the fuck is he thinking about.

[SPEAKER_00]: When he's fifty, he's not going to be operational. [SPEAKER_00]: Those millions they can do him. [SPEAKER_00]: No. [SPEAKER_00]: No. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, not unless he does some serious work in the meantime. [SPEAKER_01]: But the interesting part that Dan with with what you're talking about with concussion type, you know,

[SPEAKER_01]: football type injuries and you're headhead against something is that whole coup counter coup effect it bruises a region the brain and so that those areas might be deficits and you got to figure that shit out yeah with repetitive blast it doesn't discriminate the secondary turrets the secondary turrets it's the entire fucking so that's why guys have the pituitary you know the endocrine issues and the executive function they're called miles fucked up man I mean I remember

[SPEAKER_00]: I got rocked a couple of times twice that I remember that were IEDs that were then a certain distance fifty feet or something like that. [SPEAKER_00]: I was in a truck, but I was in a gunner both times. [SPEAKER_00]: So you just catch the full face full of it, unfortunately. [SPEAKER_00]: Never got hit directly. [SPEAKER_00]: I got some spall and shrapnel from time to time, stuff like that. [SPEAKER_00]: pick like metal out of your skin, but nobody cares what that should.

[SPEAKER_00]: As a matter of fact, who knows how it even got in my body over there, Jesus Christ. [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, you get a little bit of that. [SPEAKER_00]: But when I got out of the military between there was a two year period where I don't [SPEAKER_00]: to be honest, I still don't remember all of it. [SPEAKER_00]: Just kind of coasting. [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean? [SPEAKER_00]: Not doing much.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then finally, I get the VA to take what I'm saying seriously, which is odd because it was in Oakland, California. [SPEAKER_00]: And the doctor was like, eighty years old. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, a lot of VA's, I don't know, people [SPEAKER_00]: have had the same experience, but all the VAs I've ever been to, half the doctors are just getting started and the other half are on their way out. [SPEAKER_00]: And probably aren't doing their continued education as they should.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I finally got this guy to give me all the endocrine tests and [SPEAKER_00]: I've got, like, my pro-lactin is off the charts, which is something that you're, you know, a pro-lactin is happens when your pituitary gets, uh, uh, pituitary gling, it's fucked up. [SPEAKER_00]: And it effectively kills testosterone and free testosterone. [SPEAKER_00]: My, my T level was like, one sixty.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, finally got on a low dose at beginning because it's the fucking VA and they don't know what they're doing right. [SPEAKER_00]: It's no offense to the VA. [SPEAKER_00]: They just, they have a done this work. [SPEAKER_00]: They don't know what they're doing. [SPEAKER_00]: There's not even, even ordinary civilian primary care doctors don't know what they're doing in this regard. [SPEAKER_00]: So if you're going to address this, don't go to them.

[SPEAKER_00]: The don't even, don't even go to them for, for all because most of the time, they're not going to know what they're doing. [SPEAKER_00]: You got to find a men's health clinic. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for sure. [SPEAKER_00]: Anyways. [SPEAKER_00]: So finally, I start even at the lower dose. [SPEAKER_00]: I, it was like a cloud lifts out of my brain, right? [SPEAKER_00]: And you start to heal yourself again. [SPEAKER_00]: Now, that was only the first part of it for me.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so, cleaning up the diet was a big thing, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Like replacing the cells, the bad cells with good cells, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Getting the plastics and metal out of my body. [SPEAKER_00]: If you, I hate [SPEAKER_00]: There's two foods that you can eat that are good at both of these things, by the way. [SPEAKER_00]: For plastics, for some reason, there's an enzyme in okra, which is gross.

[SPEAKER_00]: By the way, I grew up in the south eating fried okra, but it's weirding rows. [SPEAKER_00]: That will pull plastic out of your body and then cilantro will pull metals out of these ones. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so if you have like a green shake or something every day, put a little bit of cilantro in there. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's pull the metals out of your body.

[SPEAKER_00]: stuff like that can help but you know it still doesn't fix the brain problem but and you know it's it's really funny there is we've had some pretty crude treatments for this stuff over the years one of them was electro shock there and they were kind of on the right track they were wrong in the application but they were on the right track that the brain needed that energy yeah right so uh you start getting

[SPEAKER_00]: these, I don't even know you would call it just a wide array impact on your head over and over again. [SPEAKER_00]: Just a bomb right there, bomb right there and for somebody that's in the stack that breaches blow and shut up, you're just catching it in the face every single time. [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes running into it as it's blowing up, you know what I mean?

[SPEAKER_00]: you're catching that a lot and it starts rocking your brain and it does have a full effect but there's usually disparate effects as well and this is what traumatic chronic traumatic and cepalopathy or CTE is so your brain gets hit either in a point or area region and it stops functioning as it is because your brain is wired for efficiency your brain will stop sending energy there and it's where you get these dark spots on the MRI and the CAT scan right

[SPEAKER_00]: And people think, oh, your brain just dead. [SPEAKER_00]: And it's one of the reasons we couldn't diagnose this shit before. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, we don't know what that is. [SPEAKER_00]: We don't know what that is or how to heal it. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you can take psilocybin as a matter of fact and send energy back into that region. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Now, like we, it's, it's weird that it took us so long to figure it out.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's been around so long. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, from like, more or more to maybe not, but in Vietnam, everybody was, [SPEAKER_00]: They're just tripping their ass off all the time. [SPEAKER_00]: You would think somebody would have figured this out. [SPEAKER_00]: I feel a lot better. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but you know, this is something that you've dealt with quite a bit. [SPEAKER_01]: What was it like for you as far as like with with TBI type stuff?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: It was a, again, it was about probably ten years. [SPEAKER_01]: I've been in in the teams probably ten twelve years. [SPEAKER_01]: And I just started noticing everything. [SPEAKER_01]: I just darknessed in me and testosterone. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, that was an issue. [SPEAKER_01]: Memory became a big issue. [SPEAKER_01]: It was a, you know, I've said this a few times, but it was just I felt like a shell, thevel man that I, you know, had.

[SPEAKER_01]: And luckily there's a guy who lives here in Austin, Dr. Kirk Parsley, have you ever heard of him? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So he was the doctor out at the, [SPEAKER_01]: It worked on me. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he was out in group one at the time. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: He was a lieutenant. [SPEAKER_01]: He's a new doctor and he had this fucking revolutionary thing. [SPEAKER_01]: And I remember I went into him and sat down.

[SPEAKER_01]: He was prepping the sleeve and talking about the sleep thing. [SPEAKER_01]: And he had this window in his office and it was a beautiful mind.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thing going on talking about how it the endocrine traumatic brain injury all this other stuff first of every smart guys been on the show a number of times and also has treated me personally Yeah, yeah, very smart dude, but in the infancy I remember asking him I'm like here you really is a lot of this just trying to get men are test hours from levels back to normal.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's like absolutely no [SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, it's kind of a regular, like we talk about people have for about fifteen or twenty years now constantly invoked the phrase, homeostasis, right? [SPEAKER_00]: It was the biggest selling point for CBD back in the day, like CBD promotes homeostasis. [SPEAKER_00]: That was one of the biggest tag lines for it. [SPEAKER_00]: And some to some degrees.

[SPEAKER_00]: It helps a little bit, but only if you're deficient in the things that it's working with, right? [SPEAKER_00]: It's not the cure all that everybody thought it was. [SPEAKER_00]: It never is. [SPEAKER_00]: Nothing ever is, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Except for testosterone with your body, naturally produces, right? [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's a regulator for almost everything else that's going on in your brain and body.

[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, there's so many different pathways for it to get fucked up. [SPEAKER_00]: your head injury, but to a Terry, your gut, if your gut's fucked up, ninety-six percent of all your hormones, by the way, to include melatonin, for sleep, serotonin, for mood, all that stuff, oxytocin, for emotion, all made in your gut. [SPEAKER_00]: So if your gut's fucked up, which all of ours was, yeah, coming back.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's, it's probably, it's usually the last thing that people like us figure out to treat as well. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So you got to treat the brain. [SPEAKER_00]: You got to clean up your diet lifestyle stuff. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to tell you not to drink because I like drinking too. [SPEAKER_00]: But you got to, if you're going to do the one thing, you got to do all the other stuff. [SPEAKER_00]: You got to learn to swim before you jump into the ocean.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you can't take multiple risk at the same time. [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's a mistake. [SPEAKER_00]: So clean up all the other stuff, eat the right foods, drink the right stuff, exercise, do what you need to do for your brain and then drink. [SPEAKER_00]: Fine. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we'll be fine. [SPEAKER_00]: On the basics of this. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: But the gut thing is the last thing. [SPEAKER_00]: Gabriel lines are really good with that.

[SPEAKER_00]: She's got a whole program here in Texas, Houston and Dallas, the deals with that stuff. [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, there's so many pathways for it to get fucked up. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that was one of the issues with getting it solved. [SPEAKER_00]: And it's why it took somebody from the community like Kirk to get involved and start talking about all this stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because we're the fucking rebel.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the fact that he was getting all of the different types of vitally owned vitamin D facial oils and all these different things.

[SPEAKER_01]: At group one, it was a big deal and they were just demeticians how to use it and I remember that deployment it helped out a lot but you mentioned CBD and it gave it reminded me of this funny story about probably about seven eight years ago I was up in Vancouver Helping one of the doctors put on psychedelic, you know weekend for a member of the Senate and a two-star admiral military right and I remember that the guy from the Senate he had just done five MEODMT had the whole thing done right

[SPEAKER_01]: and we're sitting down there and his fucking mind is blown and we're in the kitchen sitting there around the eye, kitchen island talking. [SPEAKER_01]: And the guy from the Senate was like, hey, you know what happens if after a while, you know, I start getting some anxiety or some of that stuff starts creeping back in my life or whatever. [SPEAKER_01]: And the doctor looks at him and goes, well, if you're not opposed to it, CBD could be pretty good for you.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he starts going, he fucking kidding me. [SPEAKER_01]: After what I just did, am I opposed to CBD? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: That was pretty funny. [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, I said, I don't want to be that story.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There's definitely uses, right? [SPEAKER_00]: We get into this. [SPEAKER_00]: We're in a microwave culture where people think, oh, this is going to solve all my problems now. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, well, no, I mean, some mix of things is going. [SPEAKER_00]: Just like anything else, there's three different macro nutrients that you need to ingest to have a healthy diet. [SPEAKER_00]: It's not one. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Can't does eat meat all the time.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't care what anybody tell you. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Can't do it. [SPEAKER_00]: I would love to. [SPEAKER_00]: Frankly, I would love to only eat meat and eggs all the time. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Unfortunately. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but unfortunately, unless you have some kind of severe immunity problem. [SPEAKER_00]: That's probably not going to work for you, right? [SPEAKER_00]: So like an autoimmune type thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Some people that autoimmune issues a lot of times it'll help now. [SPEAKER_00]: I would recommend just grow in your own food to be honest and you're if you're able to because if you go to Europe that autoimmune shit you have what doesn't exist anywhere.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for the most part, but that's more a problem for us, but not them, but I've kind of accepted kind of intuitive eating, you know, as far as meats, fishes, fruit vegetables, regular vegetables, depending on whatever it is, I mean, some sour patch gets on occasion. [SPEAKER_00]: Ah, yeah, from time to time, maybe a skiddle or two.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, well, when you come back, [SPEAKER_00]: are upside not when you come back, but you're in on the west coast when Kirk's doing his thing. [SPEAKER_00]: So you kind of get introduced to it there. [SPEAKER_00]: And then what was it like for you after that? [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it started feeling like it wasn't, he wasn't to the point where he could, you know, prescribe testosterone for people in the military.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't remember if he recommended it to me or I just saw it off on my own, but there's a guy named Doc Bronner, Bronner Hansberger. [SPEAKER_01]: He was out in L'Oyah and he's like a natural path doctor. [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's what he was natural pathic. [SPEAKER_01]: But I went to him and started to pay, you know, doing testosterone on my own. [SPEAKER_01]: And that's when I started seeing some, some good physical and cognitive kind of results.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the, the other aspects of shit that the psychedelics helped, I mean, it, it was a good foundational level. [SPEAKER_01]: Like we were just talking about kind of, you know, doing the basics, the best getting back to homeostasis on those, those other levels. [SPEAKER_01]: But it was the, I don't know, just the mental aspect and, you know, that part needed kind of be addressed. [SPEAKER_01]: And it was.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I always tell people, you know, I'm not, I guess intrinsically opposed to talk therapy. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it's useful in any meaningful way unless you fix your hardware as you first.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: You get caught in that trap of [SPEAKER_00]: emotional response and feedback if you don't so for example there's something about my past that's given me problems in my present and some people tell you to ignore that shit that's stupid obviously ignoring and isolating is one extreme and then dwelling on it forever is the other extreme you don't want to do extreme stuff it's not unless it sports

[SPEAKER_00]: You want to do extreme sports, jump out of airplane ship, but you don't want to do the extreme part, you want to get the thing to do is probably somewhere in a more moderated fashion. [SPEAKER_00]: So you're again back to your understanding, the mechanics and stuff, how your brain works. [SPEAKER_00]: It builds shortcuts to keep you safe, right? [SPEAKER_00]: That's the point.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you see a certain pattern or image and it makes you feel anger or fear or hunger or whatever, right? [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't matter what it is. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's not always correct. [SPEAKER_00]: That's a problem. [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean, especially in our upper million brain, it's quite a bit more sophisticated than the lower brain, which is just like food, danger, food, danger, you know what I mean?

[SPEAKER_00]: Now we have quite a bit more context to consider, and our brains are still kind of evolving into a disumbed degree, but that maybe they never will, because part of the purpose of that is to make you more mentally resilient. [SPEAKER_00]: Not a robot. [SPEAKER_00]: It's to make you a thoughtful person, you know what I mean?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, you have to recognize the, again, this is part of the private logic thing from Adleron psychology, but you have to recognize the neural pathway that is incorrect. [SPEAKER_00]: Think of it as your, for military people, think of it as you've drawn your, your range card and you see, and you go back out there and like, you actually, that tree is, uh, hundred and fifty, not two hundred meters. [SPEAKER_00]: So, right, so I got to correct that now.

[SPEAKER_00]: You cannot continue. [SPEAKER_00]: You can't move any farther down the road unless you've addressed the error. [SPEAKER_00]: It's why math teachers make you show your work. [SPEAKER_00]: So you can find exactly where the problem was when you get an error and you can fix that error and then everything flows forth from there. [SPEAKER_00]: But if you build on a shaky foundation epistemologically, then you're fucked down range. [SPEAKER_00]: Same thing with your social mind.

[SPEAKER_00]: If certain types of

[SPEAKER_00]: sounds or patterns or behavior patterns and other people invoke some extreme response knew that is something you need to pay attention to right if you're in traffic and if you're in traffic and somebody driving slow in front of you makes you feel rage that's something that you need to address right like I have road rage I think it's hilarious to be honest I'm just like the book I just think it's funny right it doesn't really actually make me mad my girlfriend thinks I'm crazy because you're aware of it though

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well everybody I think other drivers probably think I'm crazy too because I'll be driving and just talking to her and we're laughing and I'm like fucking get out of the way you stupid bitch and then go back to anyways she's like what the fuck are you doing and like I just I have fun it's fun for me, but I would say like this [SPEAKER_00]: That's a really specific example that applies to a lot of people that you can actually do some work in.

[SPEAKER_01]: I use driving as my own fucking mental, mental toughness. [SPEAKER_01]: It literally, to your point where you're talking about, I make it a point to not be a dick while I'm driving. [SPEAKER_01]: And it took a while to reach to retrain that, but it's just a training tool. [SPEAKER_01]: I think the life and the world around us and the amount of driving we do, the worlds are training ground and we can address those things.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was thinking about it on the way over here. [SPEAKER_00]: Actually, I've talked about this before to some degree, but a good example is somebody that's driving slow in front of you. [SPEAKER_00]: I think that you can, this is a real opportunity for you to build some structure for your stuff that actually matters, right? [SPEAKER_00]: So like, somebody's driving slow in front of you. [SPEAKER_00]: I want you to [SPEAKER_00]: wait to get angry until you see who they are.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just wait until you can get up there and see who they are and then you can, if you got to get angry then, get angry then, but you're not going to. [SPEAKER_00]: And the reason is because you've created a standoff between yourself and the emotion. [SPEAKER_00]: You've not put the emotion away, you've felt it. [SPEAKER_00]: So you've done a couple things. [SPEAKER_00]: One, you've managed your emotion to you've delayed gratification.

[SPEAKER_00]: And three, you've given that person whether you realize it or not, the benefit of the doubt or the principal charity. [SPEAKER_00]: So you've now like you're exercising these things that are really important in all the rest of your life. [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of silly to think about you're doing it in traffic to avoid road rage, but it's not even about avoiding road rage. [SPEAKER_00]: It's not just who fucking cares about that.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's about training to using the ordinary and life to inform the extraordinary. [SPEAKER_00]: So now when this emergency situation or extreme situation or dangerous situation happens or chaos or whatever it is. [SPEAKER_00]: or an argument, even an negotiation or something that's important that you get it right. [SPEAKER_00]: Now your calm and have your wits about you and your have managed emotions and the other person doesn't. [SPEAKER_00]: That is to some degree, a superpower.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you can develop it on your own, right? [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this is something that you can choose to do. [SPEAKER_00]: You can be a puppet or not a puppet. [SPEAKER_01]: And repetition is what matters. [SPEAKER_01]: It's all about reps. [SPEAKER_01]: Something you were talking about earlier, kind of really interesting timing that you were talking about that. [SPEAKER_01]: with kind of patterns and all these different things.

[SPEAKER_01]: So done the work done psychedelics have been meditating for a long time and this the interesting part is you were talking about talk therapy and I had never done it right but one thing I've noticed through a lot of the treatments and the retreats and the programs I've involved with is there seems to be some level of childhood trauma right we talked I think a little bit about that

[SPEAKER_01]: the program, the meditation program that I did for the last, it's about a year long, but the advanced part of it was the last two months. [SPEAKER_01]: And it was interesting because usually with meditation, what I realized from me that I was training myself to be present. [SPEAKER_01]: And what I realized, I think it was almost like I was training myself to distract myself from inside.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was like, be present with whatever I'm doing to not be anxious, to not be depressed, think about the future, all that stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: But this meditation program is Buddhist foundation one. [SPEAKER_01]: It's forty two foundations talks about all the different feelings, all the different things that we think and feel and all this stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: So the interesting part was the majority of this forty two meditation I did every day.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was supposed to pay attention to my thoughts and feelings. [SPEAKER_01]: Not ignore them. [SPEAKER_01]: Not ignore them. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's not about suppression, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: It's about it. [SPEAKER_00]: Because otherwise, just drink. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean? [SPEAKER_01]: That same stupid shit. [SPEAKER_01]: Yep. [SPEAKER_01]: And so what I started to see over time was all of these patterns, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: They would come to sub-conscious patterns. [SPEAKER_01]: They would, first of all, the conscious ones did the right, you know, the things that would pop up and just pay attention to them, do these things. [SPEAKER_01]: And then after a while, those things dissolve, right? [SPEAKER_01]: And it thoughts dissolve anyways. [SPEAKER_01]: But over time, what I saw were these reoccurring patterns. [SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of it was relationship patterns.

[SPEAKER_01]: And what I found out first of all through my eye-begined journeys was there was a lot of things with my mom trying to rescue her and save her. [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm talking about like romantic relationships here. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, me, I could never save him or rescue my mom because of her own, the abuse that she was going through. [SPEAKER_01]: But what I realized in my relationship, outside of my ex, which is interesting, that's interesting story.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think I was the only one she was the only one I never had to rescue, and so I wasn't, maybe fulfilled, whatever it was. [SPEAKER_01]: But before that, and even after that a couple, I realized I was trying to rescue people, trying to save people, right, from their victimhood or whatever it might be. [SPEAKER_01]: But so what I started seeing with these subconscious thoughts of five or six weeks, of forty-two minutes a day, was these re-emerging patterns, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And it was fucking amazing. [SPEAKER_01]: And so I started doing that in coordination with talk therapy with one of the ladies, so a lady named Hannah's Alzheimer's who's fucking amazing practitioners, she used to help out with her treat, she was our ops girl, but she just started becoming a counselor and also doing EFT tap therapy. [SPEAKER_01]: And she needs someone to help build some of her hours. [SPEAKER_01]: So I was like, I have a fucking time here.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is really good. [SPEAKER_01]: So I was doing this, the tapping and the talk stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: Is that what like tap it on your face and stuff? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's all exactly different areas in the body. [SPEAKER_01]: And then depend on what you're kind of talking about. [SPEAKER_01]: They'll tap and swap, you know, like the meridians and different stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's really effective and it's pretty fucking emotional.

[SPEAKER_01]: The first couple times I did it. [SPEAKER_01]: but it was in all these things in combination. [SPEAKER_01]: It was different because it was less about me being distracted and now it's addressing these things and I've recently entered into a relationship where it's like two people in the same wavelength and two people operate in the same frequencies and it's a fucking, it's just relieving. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, definitely. [SPEAKER_00]: We'll relax your semantics system quite a bit.

[SPEAKER_00]: What is it? [SPEAKER_00]: So through all this meditation stuff, what would you say? [SPEAKER_00]: It means to be present because people say that and it's kind of a platitude now. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think they know what the fuck to talk about. [SPEAKER_01]: So I did some speaking. [SPEAKER_01]: I'll give you a little reference point to this and it'll kind of make it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I did some some public speaking for a finance company for a while and I used to start out my talks with them. [SPEAKER_01]: I said, listen, I'm going to talk right now for about the next ten or fifteen minutes. [SPEAKER_01]: What I am going to ask all of you to do is every well, I'm talking pay attention to me right and Every time you catch yourself going hi, what kind of fucking shoes is he wearing or man?

[SPEAKER_01]: I got to take a piss or I've got to go eat pay attention over the next ten minutes how much you are distracted from actually what you are actually doing right then whatever you're doing do it right then right? [SPEAKER_01]: In other words, if I'm talking to Dan right now, I'm fucking paying attention.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm meditating while I'm talking to you, because while you're talking, because I want to hear what you have to say, and all of that without indicates, again, it's different. [SPEAKER_01]: I've done a few podcasts or people. [SPEAKER_01]: It's different because there's an agenda, and there's flow, and you have to have these agenda and things in your head. [SPEAKER_01]: But for me as the guest, I want to pay attention and I use conversations as that thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: So like while I'm doing my coffee pour over in the morning, I'm training myself to literally do the concentric circles, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Just to be present with it's fucking amazing what you can, when you're really doing this, it's paying attention to what you're doing, whether it's washing dishes and seeing the way the soap bubbles move.

[SPEAKER_01]: It sounds weird and it's like some food food food weird shit, but you are actually paying attention to what is going on in the world around you. [SPEAKER_01]: without being immersed in thought. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, talking in your head. [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Good. [SPEAKER_00]: A good way to think about it is to try to use, uh, we call, I don't know what you guys call it, and maybe we call it seals. [SPEAKER_00]: Stop, look, listen, smell.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yep. [SPEAKER_00]: And it's about activating all your senses at one time in that moment, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: You stop, look around, you listen for sounds, you smell for things that don't smell right? [SPEAKER_00]: If you're tracking somebody, [SPEAKER_00]: not to get girls with human shit's a good way to track people and just smells in general whether it's cordite in the air, something like that could tell you a lot about what's happening in the area.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, that's, you know, activating, I think a way to [SPEAKER_00]: A way to distill that down for the individual user is to try to activate all five of your senses, like what you're precisely doing in the moment. [SPEAKER_00]: And look, nobody's going to be able to do that twenty-four hours of every day. [SPEAKER_00]: But you should be intentional about it. [SPEAKER_01]: But that's the second half of this.

[SPEAKER_01]: The awareness, the, the, the, the, the awareness, because most people don't even fucking realize they're doing that. [SPEAKER_01]: And that's why I would not do those talks with people after about ten or fifteen minutes. [SPEAKER_01]: Literally people's mind. [SPEAKER_01]: They're like, I had no idea how distracted I was and how incapable I was of just staying at present. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and how much you're missing when you do that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so the second part of that though for for me right now just I'll speak for me, but I also understand that Awareness and non non judgemental thinking are the two biggest indicators of mental well-being and I forgot the study. [SPEAKER_01]: I have it somewhere and people guys wanted to find it. [SPEAKER_01]: I can

[SPEAKER_01]: I could find it to you, but it's in my own hell in my own life it has been the fucking super power man The awareness is a big thing but the awareness without the ability to regulate and to modulate and to look at things openly from a perspective that again I don't really know I don't really know what that person in front of me was to had going on I don't know if they're just know how to drive I don't know if they're old I don't know if they fucking total the car get hit by a fucking deer now

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, driving in so they drive a lot of people from that aren't from here. [SPEAKER_01]: They drive fast on these little country roads. [SPEAKER_01]: They probably haven't totaled fucking vehicle. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, maybe it's your grandpa that just isn't in a hurry to get anywhere. [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't fucking matter at the end of the day when we become puppets and we get pissed. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, there's karma in thoughts, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not just in your actions. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, there's this thoughts in the actions or the words or they create that same level of fucking, I don't know, I don't want blow off all your. [SPEAKER_01]: all the listeners with, with, you know, hippie-dipy shit, but there's some, yeah, I'm true to it. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, so this is, you can find this principle in the past year analytics from Aristotle's Organon.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a collection of works on, on logic and reason, how logical and reasonable arguments work from [SPEAKER_00]: what it means for something to exist all the way to logical fallacies. [SPEAKER_00]: It's still an entire gamut, right? [SPEAKER_00]: And one of, and posterior analytics, one of the primary quotes is we think we understand something absolutely when we know what's cause, right? [SPEAKER_00]: And this is why the awareness matters, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So you can collect the data that exists. [SPEAKER_00]: And then the next part, as you alluded to, is the contextualizing of it, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Is it, does it make any sense for me to get mad and allow my day to be ruined? [SPEAKER_00]: Because this other human being who has just as much right to be there as I do is performing in a way that's completely understandable. [SPEAKER_00]: That's really, when you, when you say it right away, that sounds fucking stupid, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: I was legit. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it sounds, if you, if you need to remind, I think, you know, having some of these, you can call it a platitude, but having some of these quotes about this stuff to kind of, [SPEAKER_00]: bring you back into focus or pretty important. [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean? [SPEAKER_00]: It's called a mantra. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't give a shit what you call it, but it's like, okay, this is I'm feeling anger right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's because of me not because of that dude. [SPEAKER_00]: That's my work to do is after we say I've got that's not for me to can I wouldn't say control it. [SPEAKER_00]: It's for me to live in experience it and regulate, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Something that you know, [SPEAKER_00]: The screens for children are really fucking us up.

[SPEAKER_00]: Our generation to a lesser degree, mine and yours, I guess you're probably Gen X, like middle Gen X. I'm kind of like, I'm right on the line of Gen X and millennial, but when I was growing up, so I had both. [SPEAKER_00]: I had no internet and I had internet, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And so we still have some context for what it's like to [SPEAKER_00]: disappear at eight o'clock in the morning and show it back up.

[SPEAKER_00]: Else we get an ass beaten by the time the street lights are on. [SPEAKER_00]: This unsupervised all the time. [SPEAKER_00]: With with and there's no like it does train you to I guess be present to some degree, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Because you're just out doing stuff. [SPEAKER_00]: You're active. [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean? [SPEAKER_00]: It requires your attention.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're not [SPEAKER_00]: You're not having a fake conversation with somebody as you're watching something. [SPEAKER_00]: What I mean is you're distracted. [SPEAKER_00]: All of your senses are kind of focused on one thing. [SPEAKER_00]: Now, with all the distractions, the flashing lights and all the stuff, it's getting more and more difficult. [SPEAKER_00]: And I can see my girl has a three-year-old and a five-year-old and I can see it.

[SPEAKER_00]: You can tell the difference and attitude of a kid who's been on screens all day and is not. [SPEAKER_00]: Even just within the course of one day, you know what I mean? [SPEAKER_00]: So I wonder what, and they're developing, right? [SPEAKER_00]: I wonder what for us who grew up in a certain fashion and now we're exposed to that. [SPEAKER_00]: It might actually be worse because we don't have the ability, like nobody taught us to regulate that part.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was like we'd never seen. [SPEAKER_00]: It kind of reminds me of Joel and B. Anybody's a sports fan. [SPEAKER_00]: He's a big ass basketball player that came from Africa. [SPEAKER_00]: He had never seen sweets in his life and came to America and just started stuffing his face with everything. [SPEAKER_00]: I got fat when he was a rookie and they're like, what the fuck do you do? [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, I'm just eating cake all day.

[SPEAKER_00]: Our brains are just eating cake all day now and not getting any of the stuff that we needed to get. [SPEAKER_00]: And look, I like watching TV and playing video games, like anybody else, but it's that is dessert. [SPEAKER_00]: You have to eat your fucking dinner first. [SPEAKER_00]: You want to mean. [SPEAKER_00]: Again, the same thing with the drinking thing. [SPEAKER_00]: You have to do all the right stuff first, and then you can enjoy things.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's how all of life works. [SPEAKER_00]: You work. [SPEAKER_00]: for a while and then you go home and hang out and sometimes you do cool shit on a weekend. [SPEAKER_00]: You can't live on vacation. [SPEAKER_00]: I think we see these trust fund people or ultra rich people and people who are just like constantly. [SPEAKER_00]: The ultra rich self-made person doesn't fall prey to this because they're high performance.

[SPEAKER_00]: But their children are fucked for the most part, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Because they never have to, your brain is not built to be on vacation. [SPEAKER_00]: And if it is, it's gonna find some struggle. [SPEAKER_00]: And if it doesn't exist out in the real world, you'll turn the struggle in on yourself. [SPEAKER_00]: That's why all these fucking people are crazy. [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean? [SPEAKER_01]: You're pretty familiar with seventy-five hard. [SPEAKER_01]: I know.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I know Andy very well. [SPEAKER_01]: Yep, I figure that. [SPEAKER_01]: So my best friend, Dan, he has done seventy-five hard about fourteen times.

[SPEAKER_01]: his youngest son or his oldest son right now is eighteen he's doing it for the first time there he's doing all of our Instagram but Dan and Dan knows The two dudes we were talking about before the show kicked off Dan knows of schedule so he is He has done's a hundred and fifty hard he is done forty hard and his phone ran out of fucking better like capacity and he was like gonna update it and he forgot to do a selfie

[SPEAKER_01]: And he had to start over it at four to your fifty days, seventy five heart. [SPEAKER_01]: So he's I mean, he lives that way. [SPEAKER_01]: And I was fucking with him last the other day talking about drinking, you know, he's never been a big a huge drinker. [SPEAKER_01]: But I guess in between about to seventy five heart, you know, he'll sit down with his wife. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, probably drank a few glasses of wine, maybe too many.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I was like, Dan, hey, I was like, tell me the truth, brother. [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, seventy five heart, do you just do that to fucking just get yourself off a drink and fall out? [SPEAKER_01]: And he's like, yeah, there's probably some fucking truth to that. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but hopefully we just not drink. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, I wanted to circle back on something. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, one, I'm glad that you don't drink coffee like a Philistine.

[SPEAKER_00]: out of a fucking coffee mate coffee maker or something like that. [SPEAKER_00]: That should drives me crazy. [SPEAKER_00]: But when you say, you said it a couple of times on drinking roads and I have the opportunity to kind of jump in on that, but you say non-judgmental thinking, what does that mean?

[SPEAKER_01]: So what I'm in that that was thanks for bringing that back up because I was going to [SPEAKER_01]: It's not about judging situations, not about judging whether it's safe to go across a street or judging whether this person's out of harm, kind of like tribalism stuff, you know, understanding those environments. [SPEAKER_01]: To me, judgment is, again, your situation in life, people who can, you know, I'll give you a start with shit talking about other people, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, what the fuck man, fucking, I use the masculine because, you know, I'm, [SPEAKER_01]: I'm pretty apolitical, but I still didn't like the whole force and people in the way masks and all the kind of stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: I just, I mean, I've worked in operating rooms and understand that in sensitive, sterile environments, there's a certain part that helps with it. [SPEAKER_01]: It's building blah, blah, blah, all the things, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And so it was about looking at somebody else and going, look at that fat piece of fucking shit. [SPEAKER_01]: Or look at that, what's that fucking person wearing the mask for? [SPEAKER_01]: Or I damn, you know, you liberal fuck or whatever it is, right? [SPEAKER_01]: At the end of the day, you don't unless you go talk to them. [SPEAKER_01]: I've had it happen a couple of times. [SPEAKER_01]: I remember when one of my friends Jake, there was a judgment that was cast.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we had the opportunity to go talk to those persons. [SPEAKER_01]: We got to introduce them. [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe, you know, twenty-thirty minutes later, while we're hanging out. [SPEAKER_01]: And we came to find out that it had nothing, the thought that he had, he was so fucking wrong about it. [SPEAKER_01]: But he formed this thing in his head that this judgment about somebody else that he was wrong about. [SPEAKER_01]: It's unhealthy, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: So, and the other one is, I mean, it's bad data. [SPEAKER_01]: It's bad, right? [SPEAKER_00]: That's my point. [SPEAKER_00]: You're getting in your own way by assume, like there's some assumptions that are safe based on stuff. [SPEAKER_00]: And assumptions belong in a different pocket than facts. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Any other say there's data?

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's, there's, there's, [SPEAKER_01]: physiological things that happen from certain thoughts, right? [SPEAKER_01]: So you're creating these cascade of fucking data, you know, physiological being, you know, dealt with me at whatever it all, different stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: You know more about stuff than I do. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just saying there's physiological, chemical reactions that happen when these things.

[SPEAKER_00]: But if you think some guys in asshole, you're selling gangling, gets activated. [SPEAKER_00]: And your fight or flight mechanism is on. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the court is already now, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Your court is all spikes and you're ready to fight. [SPEAKER_00]: You're ready to fight or argue. [SPEAKER_01]: And you might be your fucking probably wrong. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, probably.

[SPEAKER_01]: So you would look what you're doing to your overall stress and hormones all these things, right? [SPEAKER_00]: And being able to regulate that by the way is this. [SPEAKER_00]: It's recognizing that it's a possibility and having your cortisol and selling ganglion and amygdala on standby. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: That's what it is. [SPEAKER_00]: And then like you can turn it up. [SPEAKER_00]: This is something we'll get into this in a minute.

[SPEAKER_00]: But something that I really think we need to get in to this seventeen to twenty five year old crowd joining the military and the special operations community at some point and teach them how to do this, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: Because I think being able to go from like [SPEAKER_00]: the process of taking yourself from zero or two up to a five or six. [SPEAKER_00]: Would you go on a deployment? [SPEAKER_00]: So you can go from six to ten real quick.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yep. [SPEAKER_00]: And then bringing yourself back down when you're in a civilian environment is one it's doable and it's something that we're making literally no effort to train people how to do it. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: At any rate, keep going. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's again about judgment about other people when you're usually wrong. [SPEAKER_01]: judge me about your own yourself, the self-sabotaging talk.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's nothing harmful or helpful about it all. [SPEAKER_01]: Again, there can be a level of awareness like maybe I should do this. [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe I can work towards this. [SPEAKER_01]: There's good thoughts, there's contemplative thinking that is very helpful. [SPEAKER_01]: But it's when it's a self-deprecating type of harmful things.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the other one's about your own situation in life like, man, I fucking [SPEAKER_01]: Where am I at my life, you know, all these different shifts? [SPEAKER_01]: So it's about judgment about yourself, others, and your own circumstances is really what I've kind of tried to work on. [SPEAKER_01]: If I can do something about it, I'll fucking do it, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: It is opposed to just dwelling on and creating these repetitive loops, kind of like people, you know, a lot of people only realize your fucking tap and their legs and stuff like that. [SPEAKER_01]: It's the same thing with repetitive thoughts. [SPEAKER_01]: And those things, those loops can create the physically logical, the dumps of chemicals.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And then, you know, just even in your [SPEAKER_00]: and the process of thinking the way that you build logic inside of your own head. [SPEAKER_00]: that becomes a really big problem, right? [SPEAKER_00]: For a lot of reasons, one, you're letting in garbage data to you're having a somatic response to that data, probably incorrect data.

[SPEAKER_00]: And now you're setting, you've set up for failure and you're much less resilient to platitudes or scapegoating or something called thought-terminating cliches. [SPEAKER_00]: We say like, [SPEAKER_00]: You're in an argument with somebody and say, oh, that's just racist. [SPEAKER_00]: You're like, no, it's, there's nothing racist about what I said. [SPEAKER_00]: You, it's racist involved, but I didn't see anything that's racist.

[SPEAKER_00]: But you're saying that because you don't want to continue this argument. [SPEAKER_00]: You want to try to win the argument and get out of it now. [SPEAKER_00]: But that's nonsense, right? [SPEAKER_00]: And we become individually become much more prone to dismissing stuff. [SPEAKER_00]: And I tell people this all the time. [SPEAKER_00]: What's up, Doc? [SPEAKER_01]: Is that a buddy? [SPEAKER_00]: All right, what are you doing? [SPEAKER_00]: We got a little visitor in here.

[SPEAKER_00]: We become much more susceptible to things like that, to be dismissive of ideas. [SPEAKER_00]: And then if you're just because you don't agree with somebody's solution to a problem, doesn't mean that a problem doesn't exist. [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: And if you allow that, if you allow your brain to terminate [SPEAKER_00]: the thought at that point. [SPEAKER_00]: Then here's what's going to happen.

[SPEAKER_00]: One, you're worse for it personally, right? [SPEAKER_00]: But two, somebody who you disagree with is going to recognize that problem and solve it in a way that you don't like. [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean? [SPEAKER_00]: This is what we mean. [SPEAKER_00]: We say being an active participant in life. [SPEAKER_00]: Instead of just, you know, getting on Twitter and bitching all day or whatever people do these days. [SPEAKER_00]: It's nonsense.

[SPEAKER_00]: Nothing particularly present about that. [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, I want to, before we get out of here, we're going to go on a sec, but you talked about Kirk back at, I think he eventually ended up at Warcom, doing consulting on this stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: And some units here and there talking about it and doing some stuff, what I don't understand is how the larger DOD apparatus [SPEAKER_00]: It's something really concerned about that we're not taking all this information we know and teaching it to seventeen to nineteen year old. [SPEAKER_00]: When I showed up to the eight second airborne they taught me how to take care of all my equipment. [SPEAKER_00]: How to make sure my rifle is serviceable all this stuff and it was it was.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would get my ass lit the fuck up if I did not do that, right? [SPEAKER_00]: But as far as taking care of my body, like nutrition, which I know right now, I don't know if you know Robert Irvine, this celebrity chef, but he's okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Him and clone Lopez, the former C.A.C., are working to revamp the D.O.D. [SPEAKER_00]: food program. [SPEAKER_00]: That's great. [SPEAKER_00]: So that's great.

[SPEAKER_00]: But how to take care of your body, the right kinds of exercising, we did PT, sure, but the right kinds, formative combat PT, and then not just mental health. [SPEAKER_00]: I think mental health is like just trying to remain static, like stasis, right? [SPEAKER_00]: You just want to be okay. [SPEAKER_00]: No, we want to be the best. [SPEAKER_00]: We want to be the best.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, [SPEAKER_00]: Why aren't we teaching seventeen to nineteen year olds entering the military and at a great even greater level a more advanced level twenty to twenty five year old tour entering the special operations community about hormones and real mental toughness not just grinning and bearing it like I say suck it up that's not mental

[SPEAKER_00]: about being in a chaotic situation and not choosing to stay calm, but staying calm because you've trained to become, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Those are way different things because if you're choosing to be calm, it's requiring your energy. [SPEAKER_00]: You're using your energy that should be used to absorb all the senses around you. [SPEAKER_00]: Just stay calm instead of doing your fucking job. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like that's our entire gym.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm saying it's like that yeah, I know we'll talk that's that's why I'm kind of lead into so Right now Through these selection processes. [SPEAKER_00]: We're selecting for something that we could create [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yep. [SPEAKER_00]: So this is a literal force multiplier. [SPEAKER_00]: If we put this information out into the world and not just the information because it's not enough, you have to have the practical exercises for these people.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's going to be different for each dude to some degree. [SPEAKER_00]: People learn in different ways. [SPEAKER_00]: It's not going to be completely different for each dude, but there's going to be a couple of different ways you have to teach it so that everybody can. [SPEAKER_00]: It's very doable. [SPEAKER_00]: It's not particularly expensive, frankly. [SPEAKER_00]: It's not expensive. [SPEAKER_00]: Like even the hardware solutions.

[SPEAKER_00]: for fixing hormones and stuff like that and fixing your brain. [SPEAKER_00]: It's not very expensive. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's pennies if you think about it, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Especially if you're buying and bulk at the DOD level for two million people at a time, not that everybody would be on stuff. [SPEAKER_00]: But you're buying at government levels. [SPEAKER_00]: things like hormone replacement therapy and stuff like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to cost the government like fifty to a hundred bucks a month per guy. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, to do it. [SPEAKER_01]: It costs to the performance debt, you know, deficit people have the issues that they all the downstream shit, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Like the cost of the VA have right now, which shrink drastically if we would do this stuff. [SPEAKER_00]: And then of course, the on-field performance or in combat performance goes way, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's this mixture of the right [SPEAKER_00]: diet and exercise the right chemicals in your body when I say chemicals I mean natural like your hormones all the stuff your brain health and then your [SPEAKER_00]: your actual mental toughness, which is the ability to delay gratification, to live in a motion without letting it overwhelm you things like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Naturally, because of repetition, you can do all these things and then you add in the combat movements and critical thought. [SPEAKER_00]: This is, we don't need a fucking serum to make Captain America. [SPEAKER_00]: We know the solution for this stuff and we're doing, in my opinion, right now, at least at the government level, they're doing nothing. [SPEAKER_00]: at all to do the stuff except for a very small pockets in a couple places.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now, and those usually aren't even by by complete docks, and it's usually a leader or something. [SPEAKER_00]: One guy, like a man, I don't know if you know General Donahue, or not, but I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: Former Delta commander, now he's, I don't even know what, he was AT there once commander until recently now he's commanded somewhere else. [SPEAKER_00]: I'll say for a flag officer to be widely respected inside of the special operations community is very rare.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: He is the most well respected person that I've ever met in the military among the special operations community that has, that's not a starter major or command master chief or whatever.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: He's doing a lot of stuff for trying to do a lot of stuff pilot programs or whatnot, but for the most part, yeah, it's just small pockets here and there, but you have a company called Mercury Human Performance is actually right down the street here, and you guys are engaged in quite a bit of this stuff. [SPEAKER_00]: There's your self and dev group guy. [SPEAKER_00]: Yep. [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't remember who the other guy is.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Chris Wolves is my partner. [SPEAKER_01]: He's a former Army Supply, just a guard and logistics officer, but he's pretty amazing seeing some of these guys that we are working with us that are just normal dudes, but you know, like Adam and I with our backgrounds, we're trying to recreate some of those

[SPEAKER_01]: the stress and occupation in a really healthy way through these the system of drills that we have that conflict connects around again it's been around for fifteen years started with both of pro baseball player right and they used all these different types of human performance drills to help people with you know like [SPEAKER_01]: batting and pitching and catching all these different things and he was talking to a delta guy.

[SPEAKER_01]: He was North Carolina and he was like fuck did we could use that shit in the military and so they started developing the initial prototypes of the systems these cognitive drills decision-making drills. [SPEAKER_01]: these drills that induce emotional demodulation, right? [SPEAKER_01]: And learn to train to these things, learn to track your eyes, learn to be more lethal as a gun fighter, but also be more calm and resilient under pressure now.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and that's the biggest part about the entire system. [SPEAKER_01]: It's fucking amazing. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, a lot of people don't even realize people come in there because they want to fucking shoot better. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to be cool to shoot better.

[SPEAKER_01]: But once we get them on the floor and they go through a class, [SPEAKER_01]: They start to understand what separates the real people who know how to handle themselves in stressful and in conflict at a neutral to stay neutral so to speak and to be efficient and leave what at the same time if it's necessary But to make those right decisions not just fucking shooting and everything so it's yeah It's also there's a lot of vestibular type therapy type stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not meant to be that way, but it does do that. [SPEAKER_01]: You know it's [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I mean, it's a physical therapy makes you stronger, right? [SPEAKER_00]: That's the point. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's part of the healing process, but what you're doing is not healing the thing, you're making the other parts stronger to support the thing that's fucked up, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's where you're talking about the sliding scale people, real some people are fucking just more emotionally resilient than others. [SPEAKER_01]: But most people, I can tell I can start out a class and say, listen, I'm going to challenge every one of you. [SPEAKER_01]: Every one of you more than likely is going to emotionally demodulate at some point. [SPEAKER_01]: You're going to be like fuck, get pissed.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to quit in the middle of this because it's going to be frustrating because we're going to push you ten percent past what you have the ability to do, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Intentionally, intentionally, absolutely, it's by design. [SPEAKER_01]: It's about, you know, it's retraining people's nervous system, also failure. [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly, it's a muscle, but nervous system failed. [SPEAKER_01]: So we have to retrain that.

[SPEAKER_01]: plus life speed, you know, if you can only go a certain speed, you know, some of the other things are like, you know, it's speed, recoil management, and then accuracy, right? [SPEAKER_01]: If we can, again, it's like, it's like sprinting, you can't jog to learn how to sprint, right? [SPEAKER_01]: You got a fun sprint faster.

[SPEAKER_01]: So then eventually the accuracy starts building, but you're retraining the nervous system to be act, or act faster, and more appropriate for the situations. [SPEAKER_01]: It's not just about shooting fasters, but [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's good. [SPEAKER_00]: It's funny because we tried a lot of stuff on this over there. [SPEAKER_00]: And there's some good training in the military. [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, we have the best gun fighters in the fucking world.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not even particularly close, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: But it's it's crazy how much better we could be. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, to be honest because we yeah, we've tried a lot of stuff calm under pressure. [SPEAKER_00]: So we set off. [SPEAKER_00]: Artisan, swallower moving and shooting. [SPEAKER_00]: He's like, all right, that's that's something.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: You're creating delays and interruptions and distractions that force me to stay calm, right? [SPEAKER_00]: But if I actually learned the basics and then had repetition in the basics of what it really means to stay calm because you don't need all that to do that stuff, right? [SPEAKER_00]: That's that's the [SPEAKER_00]: That's the practical exercise. [SPEAKER_00]: We haven't done the class work yet, right? [SPEAKER_00]: You have to shrink this stuff down.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you mention sports, if you're a baseball player and your swing is fucked up, you don't go [SPEAKER_00]: to a home around Derby to fix it. [SPEAKER_00]: You break the swing down into the elements, right? [SPEAKER_00]: And you get all the mechanics right, and then you put it back together. [SPEAKER_00]: And then you take the full swing and you look at, they have, I mean, these days they've got the whole stick man tracker thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they could tell everything about your swing now, but [SPEAKER_00]: We can do the same thing, like these teaching people, the strategies for managing somatic responses, the things before they get into the environment, then put them into the environment and test it. [SPEAKER_00]: And then do our AR. [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, here's where you didn't do it right. [SPEAKER_00]: Here's where you did it right. [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: Let's do it right here.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like do these drills? [SPEAKER_00]: All right. [SPEAKER_00]: Let's go do it again. [SPEAKER_00]: It's something that is [SPEAKER_00]: a lot more valuable than going to the range for the day. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I've had everybody from Delta to DevGrew to fucking GRS to SAD on this show and I guarantee you most if not all of them would say that you learn more dry firing that you do at a live fire range.

[SPEAKER_00]: You learn more with the mechanics and even without positive reinforcement, which is a say recoil, I guess. [SPEAKER_00]: Then you do.

[SPEAKER_00]: afterwards you just learn more the mechanics matter you have to get that stuff right you have to you may not be able to jog to learn how to sprint but you get to learn how to fucking crawl before you can walk yeah for sure right so you know these things matter and I'm glad that you're doing it I hope this blows up and that more people get involved in it just ordinary civilians [SPEAKER_00]: and our country should be trained for everything in my opinion.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's four of these already on men's military installations around the world. [SPEAKER_01]: You're talking about the system. [SPEAKER_00]: The system. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, ours is by far. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you can ask Brian the owner of conflict connects. [SPEAKER_01]: He's seen what we put together. [SPEAKER_01]: He said this is the fucking the Taj Mahal of this type of system in the end. [SPEAKER_01]: just because of how much we've built into it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we've got panoramic two-twenties, we've got these long team trainer walls, we've got flat walls all over that they all interact and we've got fucking badass monkey cars and rogue systems that we incorporate all the stressors into it. [SPEAKER_01]: It's just a really cool gym. [SPEAKER_00]: I think this should be like... [SPEAKER_00]: uh, infantry, AIT, and marine school of infantry. [SPEAKER_00]: This is what dreams are already using it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think this should be the bulk of that train. [SPEAKER_01]: Believe it or not, they're all using it right now. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so we've kind of evolved past that and that's, I mean, I mean, I mean, the fucking SOI's using it. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if the, what army infantry, but I mean, all the big elements are using it and even send in to some degree special operations.

[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of times we're too cool for it. [SPEAKER_01]: It's been interesting, you know, the, the, the, the kayak delta guys are, uh, [SPEAKER_01]: The delta guys a lot of devil who do had like fucking seven seals come in there and everyone is humbled. [SPEAKER_00]: That's the difference between, by the way, not to talk shit, but seal team dev group and then green beret delta.

[SPEAKER_00]: There is a, like, they don't, they really believe that Kyle was an epictetus instead of, if you want to approve, you have to be willing to be thought foolish or something like that. [SPEAKER_00]: There's an old quote. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, they don't. [SPEAKER_00]: If it's training that they see a benefit, then they're doing it. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for sure. [SPEAKER_01]: They will know if you're being exposed.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it is fucking, [SPEAKER_00]: And that's a different type of brain. [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, we can select for that. [SPEAKER_00]: And they do through selection and OTC and stuff like that. [SPEAKER_00]: But I really feel like we can build a lot of that, too. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: You don't have to be sick to get better. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm glad to hear that it's getting more pervasive.

[SPEAKER_00]: So tell everybody, give me the elevator pitch on what the company does specifically. [SPEAKER_01]: Which I mean, we train people to be better. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: I need to work on an elevator pitch. [SPEAKER_01]: We help people train to be able to respond versus react. [SPEAKER_01]: during conflict. [SPEAKER_01]: And whether that's gunfighting, the guns we use, just happening to be the tool, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And to go back to your driving, driving road rage, all of these things that we're training, the emotional modulation, making the right decisions with this system. [SPEAKER_01]: It's fucking funnish shit, too. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, just the drills themselves are awesome. [SPEAKER_01]: You're going to become a badass, leave some motherfucker on these systems really fast, and it translates to the live range. [SPEAKER_01]: The cool part is these same things, and I talk about this.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you can imagine just sitting here talking to me today. [SPEAKER_01]: I still talk about this shit to every fucking person we have come through. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I feed some of this away until level that I meet a more of their eye, you know, but I talked about the awareness and about how they throughout this entire day while they're trying to be aware of what's going on in your fucking head, because that's what it starts, you know, and learn to

[SPEAKER_01]: All the things that they're doing, if they want to be effective and bad as gun fighters, they need to be able to stop the cascade of the physical or the chemical dumps that are going to cause the cortisol that are going to cause tunnel vision. [SPEAKER_01]: That would some be breaks in their house. [SPEAKER_01]: And they're Mr. Cool guy shooting steel, their entire life, and they're awesome at the range. [SPEAKER_01]: They can do all the mag changes without pressure and stress.

[SPEAKER_01]: The second, there's a real threat of somebody shooting back at them, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Or the potential of harmonics, and at least harming you on a fucking fly range, right? [SPEAKER_01]: If you can train to the real life person that might be in front of you that wants to harm you or your family, that's really what comes down to, and people don't know how to do that. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, and so that's kind of what we're trying to help people make aware of.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and the difference between responding reacting is, I think, maybe some folks would say that, but not all distinction, but it's definitely not. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, [SPEAKER_00]: think about the difference between responding or reacting to allowed noise and responding to allowed noise. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you can picture it in your head right now or your kids upset or being a dick or something like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: The difference between reacting to that or responding to it in by definition is quite a bit different. [SPEAKER_00]: And the reason I brought that up is because [SPEAKER_00]: These skills are not just for the battlefield, they will pour into every other part of your life. [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean? [SPEAKER_00]: Like emotional modulation, regulation, whatever you want to call it, is something that permeates everything else.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like it informs everything else that happens in your life. [SPEAKER_00]: And it will make you, in my opinion, it makes you a better person. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it makes you a better person, a fucking, a more content person, a better in your relationships, a higher energy, you know, a higher frequency that people want to be around and you like being around your own self. [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what it starts with. [SPEAKER_01]: It's just like in yourself, you know.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, tell everybody, we've got to go out of here, but tell everybody where they can find you and find yeah, more convenient performance.com and it's located in dripping spring Texas all for the fits you and we know we're on Instagram and as well as I don't know from Facebook, but definitely on Instagram and that's [SPEAKER_01]: It's been pretty cool seeing some of the responses. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what do people do?

[SPEAKER_01]: They just go on the website and sign up for classes or yeah, there's I mean, we don't really don't jump and probably I'm learning more heat and fucking one on one right now. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like I can actually talk some of the talk.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't really I think I can just jumble my words together But with all the ad campaigns, but absolutely go on the website Take a look at what we got the offerings and then explore classes were looking at a membership model right now, which a lot of people [SPEAKER_00]: Or what would a membership model look like? [SPEAKER_00]: Like you pay a fee a month and you get to come in X number of times and you get to come in whenever you want.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you can come in, so you just have a list of like a yoga series, have a list of classes you can come in to any of. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, they can do that for sure, right? [SPEAKER_01]: They, we have classes, we'll be running a couple classes day like gunfighter fundamentals or gunfighter, you know, advanced gunfighting, but it's, it's, again, it's all the human forms aspect that we've been talking about.

[SPEAKER_01]: But the cool thing with the membership models is [SPEAKER_01]: People go through one of those classes to build that foundation, right? [SPEAKER_01]: And then they can come in and they'll have access to Adam, DevGuy, or me, you know, whatever, we'll be working there. [SPEAKER_01]: We can, we'll be given a certain amount of one on one time with us for privates that we can work with anyone, things that they need to work on, or whatever they want to work on.

[SPEAKER_01]: But they have access to our gym, we've got a cold plunge there, you know, we've got a fucking membership lounge for build out a bar. [SPEAKER_01]: Ladies come in drink have wine have some white wine and then we teach them fun, you know pistol fundamentals. [SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of a a unique thing. [SPEAKER_01]: They all think it's cute and cool and it's it is kind of cool because it's a consequence of the environment.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, so you're doing anything class wise with the mental part of this all of it is okay [SPEAKER_01]: Every time the gladly will we argue that so one of the things I'm going to be working on people is with the awareness and maybe even some breath work and the mindfulness and take that a step further.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I talked about all this stuff and not to the level that we're talking about today, but I do make people aware of these things during the class and it's been surprising in a good way how how interested in [SPEAKER_01]: intrigued people are about this and how they want to learn more especially like executives or you know, these young entrepreneurs and business professionals. [SPEAKER_01]: That's the part that's really intriguing them. [SPEAKER_01]: The guns is cool, you know.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's just the, I mean, so they do, we do this. [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, exactly, at the executive level all the time, go to a fucking, uh, my buddy runs dream racing in Vegas. [SPEAKER_00]: It's at the Vegas Motor Speedway. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it's all the fastest cars you can imagine. [SPEAKER_00]: You can just take laps and all right, but they send some of these corporations will come in and spin.

[SPEAKER_00]: two, three, four hundred grand in a day letting their people do that as like for stress and stuff like that and they'll take them into the conference room and have their team meeting and talk about managing stress and all this stuff. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, okay, that's fine, but you know, something like what we're talking about here would be quite a bit better. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's great.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's also your talking to people that [SPEAKER_00]: have been in the most stressful situations that exist on this planet. [SPEAKER_00]: We should do this. [SPEAKER_00]: We should do a live version of this for them sometime. [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of the list of this conversation is I think there's a lot of insight there that's again, it isn't about gun fighting. [SPEAKER_00]: It makes you better at it for sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: you know, it's it's it's more about just being a whole person. [SPEAKER_00]: Yep. [SPEAKER_00]: I think. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: That's the only reason I mean, and again, you talking to me enough now, last couple of times, I would have done this if it was just about gunfighting. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: That's not where that's not my purpose. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's kind of the balancing, you know, right, the best of both worlds.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, thanks for coming today. [SPEAKER_00]: I appreciate it. [SPEAKER_00]: Again, tell everybody where they can find you. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Mark, you're human performance.com. [SPEAKER_01]: That's the best one. [SPEAKER_01]: Yep. [SPEAKER_01]: All right, cool. [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, thanks again for coming. [SPEAKER_00]: I appreciate the time. [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody go check it out. [SPEAKER_00]: We'll be doing more stuff in the future.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure because you're right there. [SPEAKER_00]: And also, this is awesome. [SPEAKER_00]: So thanks again for coming. [SPEAKER_00]: Appreciate you, Dan. [SPEAKER_00]: All right. [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you all for listening.