Disaster Relief Pt. 1: World Central Kitchen Spotlight

inscribed inside of it was don't postpone joy. And so when we were talking to the rabbi, I guess my wife told her this, this you know story and the meaning of it and why why that was inside my my ring. She just looked at us and said, just look inside your ring. And so we decided to go through with with wedding. Last week was a it's a really horrible week for America. I got married September fifteen,

two thousand one, four days after nine eleven. Thousands of our citizens lost lives, thousands were hurt, but thousands of our citizens rose to the occasion to help. And immediately I found myself on a cruise ship UM that was anchored near ground zero, working the midnight shift, feeding first responders. Its love and compassion. God bless America. Everybody was here. Thank you for your hard work, thank you for making a nation proud, and may God bless America. It wasn't heroic.

I did what I knew how to do. I did my my part. I cooked. I really didn't think much about how that came about. Um. I just heard of that there was a need. I went down and signed up, and I ended up running the kitchen from twelve o'clock at night till eight o'clock in the morning and cooking

food for the first responders. We had people who were also working in I guess the front of house, you know, cleaning, clearing tables and things like that, but they also spend time with with some of the responders, and they were pretty broken up by what they were seeing. So, you know, for that short period of time we did provide, you know, some comfort. But out of our tears and stead as we saw the best of America as well. We saw

a great country rise up to help. Tens of millions of dollars and thousands of hours and tons of food and clothing have all been donated. But you know, looking back on it, it was such a slapstick response. We dealt with companies that were just you know, donating food to us, and we had no idea what we're gonna cook.

But there were boxes of like branded you know, rice and beans and things like that, and so it was it was completely disorganized and the only reason we made it work is because you're a bunch of professional chefs in there who just figured it out. And it was at least two weeks before we saw a real response to feeding people who were down there, you know, digging to the rubble. That's just that's just, you know, looking back on it, it's completely inadequate. You know, we we

need we need a government with a plan. You know, these hurricanes and these disasters are happening all too frequently. You know, this isn't the last pandemic that we're gonna say, and so we we can't have a government, within the absence of policy, relies on you know, Joseandrias. You know, God bless him that he does this work. But we shouldn't have to rely on that. We shouldn't have to rely on his connections to wealthy people to help feed

people who are in need. That's that that's not the way a government should respond to disasters, and so for this episode, we're gonna look at disaster relief and whether or not our our government should have a plan. We're gonna look at policies that that we should have in place, specifically the Feed Act, and how that that can completely remake the way we deal with disaster relief. I think, I think to understand that the need is, we need

to understand that. You take a look at what it costs to move food around, would cost to mobilize the amount of people, whether it's on a in a large city or whether it's on an island nation, it doesn't really matter. It's it's about this massive, massive response that has to happen. So um the best person to I think take us through this is uh Nate Moot, the CEO of World Central Kitchen. Jose gets uh the glory out there, and he should, but Nate, Nate is the

one who keeps the wheels turning. So we are going to speak it to Nate to just get an understanding of the the size and scope and complexity of what has to happen to feed people who are in need in times or a disaster. My video for us. So we're in the middle of a pandemic. Are you hearing me? Okay?

With the headphones here. Most of these interviews are done via zoom or our squad cast, I should say, but yeah, that that you that social distancing thing that it's kind of happening now, So we're gonna keep our distance and and make it make a podcast. Okay, So, Nate, what what challenges are are we seeing with with the pandemic sort of let's talk about the Nited States for a second,

to the nationwide pandemic versus a localized disaster. What are the challenges you're saying, Yeah, I mean, I think it's exactly right. I mean, this is very different from a natural disaster in the sense that typically you have everything focused into one area, so you can really redirect, you know, all these resources, gather up everything, all these groups come in and they focus in and they sort of you know, it's like, uh, you know, you're you're sort of healing

this one place where there's been damage done. Unfortunately, now the damage is is everywhere. Um. The damage can often be seen, um, And it requires it really a completely different approach, even if the underlying goal is the same, which is to get food to those that need it. The mechanisms in which you do that have to be adapted to the current situation. You know what I mean by that is UM an organization like World Central Kitchen, but even the federal government, UM, you know, can't be

everywhere at the same time. And the pandemic is really impacting the big cities like New York, but also you know, small towns, UM, rural areas. We're seeing places like Navajo Nation that actually the highest rates of of COVID in the country right now. And so if you can't be everywhere, then how do you how do you respond? UM? I think the other the other big piece is that because this is not a typical disaster, the mechanisms, especially on the federal level, that tend to get implemented in in

disaster scenarios. Uh, you know, nobody really knew what to do. Um. You know, what was this an emergency where FEMA goes in and tries to do something? You know, what is what is the u s d A's role because you know, we're seeing all these food banks being overrun and is usd A now a disaster response organization? So there was almost this like paralysis at the federal level of what to do. And so you know, I think what's ended

up happening. What we're seeing is that uh, nonprofits like World Central Kitchen, but also more importantly, local leaders, so the mayors, the you know, the community based organizations in the neighborhoods have really had to step up to fill the void. And the challenge with that is how do you sustain that over this period of time. You know, you can go in and very quickly activate and mobilized to do things, but how do you do that on

a longer term scale. Um From the feeding side of things, one of our biggest challenges that we found is that it's the last mile that's the hardest part. How do you get the food into the hands of those that really needed It's one thing to produce the food, and what we've seen is that, you know, the there's actually ample production available right I mean, the restaurants are closed down, so you've got you know, the kitchens that are that

are dormant right now that could be activated. You have the suppliers that want to sell food to to somebody, but then how do you get that food in a way to get it to the people who can't either leave their house or they can't go to congregate feeding sites, and that's really proven to be the challenge. So it's required really this sort of this complete reinvention of the

way that that World Central Kitchen operates. And also I think just to wake up call more generally to our society around the importance of local leadership and and and not having to rely on somebody coming in from the outside to to support and have all the answers. Yeah, wasn't that always the case with the Stafford Act. And the Stafford Act actually UH put the uh the the onus on local governance to to deal with disasters, um, which and sometimes it's part of the problem because the

federal dollars can't flow very well. But to me, you're I think this is the point. You're making a really great point here, and I think it's the point that a lot of people miss. So you can cook food. I mean, Jose can call any chef in the country and say, hey, your restaurant's closed right now, open up. I'll give you an X amount per meal. You can you know, do five thousand meals a week and we can feed a lot of people, and and and that's great,

but it's the logistics of finding those people. And I work with the organization called Hungry and they were actually doing that for the city of New York. Um, working on that last not only the logistics of fighting the people,

but delivering the food to them as well. And my understanding is that the rates of you know, finding the people and delivering that food those meals, there's like a fIF missr you know, mis rate I ever rate on that, which is you think about the amount of food that's being produced of that and not getting where it has

to go to. That's a that's a big rate. So yeah, you're you're you're you're pointing out something that most people don't understand, that that logistics problem not only delivering the food, especially in the pandemic when things are shut down, but finding that person, especially in a city like New York. I mean, you may go to a housing project where you know you've got to go through hallways and knock on doors and and so it's it's a it's a

there's a there's a lot to do here. Um. So, um, you know what Jose and I obviously you know, we've had several conversations around you know, uh, we're all central kitching starting to do UM advocacy work, not only feeding people, but you know, doing some policy work. And and it's always been well we're kind of working out. Now you guys are actually doing that policy work. And it's great to see UM because you guys UM helped. It sounds like help, right the Feed Act UM, which does exactly

what we're talking about. It's actually getting those federal dollars immediately into you know, you don't have to wait for FEED to mobilize, you don't have to wait for UM for dollars to start flowing UM setting up. You know, the network is there. UM. I mean, you think about this, if if they wanted pandemic, everything starts to close, federal dollars start flowing to restaurants, those restaurants stay open. They

all turn into community feeding centers. Not only do you feed a lot of people, but you keep that entire supply chain and act so that milk that we see that's being thrown out, and those chicken eggs that are being broken, and the hogs that are on slaughter, all of these things stay intact. Now so that's not that's not broken, and so it really lessens the effect of this pandemic and lessons the effect that has on hungry people,

lessons the effect that has on the economy. But you have to have a plan for this, So so what what is the plan? Where? Where? Where are we with the feed ack right now? Yeah, it's it's a great point. I mean, I think again this this goes back to the idea that, um, you know, the power should be in the hands of the local community to be able to respond, and I think I ideally, like you said, that is sort of the general um goal of the

Stafford Act. The problem is that we were seeing in actuality it runs into a number of barriers and there's a couple of things that we really focused on with the Feed Act. So one of them is who can actually be providing those meals you know, typically in in an emergency, and whether that should should it shouldn't be a party planning company that has no experience with food,

right exactly that that we exactly exactly right. I mean, if it's looked at as government procurement, what ends up happenings? You end up with organizations that are just bidding on government contracts to make money, not organizations that really are there to feed people. We saw this failed dramatically in Puerto Rico. We've seen this fail so many times over the years. But it's the structure there that that that leads to that problem. And so the idea here is

we need to open the door. We need to authorize those dollars to be able to go to businesses like restaurants and catering companies and those that are feeding people and know how to feed people at scale for a living. So that's one piece. The second pieces letting those dollars

also flow into local farmers. Right there shouldn't be anything stopping a city, a county, a state from buying directly from local farms to put together produce boxes other things that can be put in the hands of those families, right that so and right now it's really tricky to do that. So those are two two key pieces. But I think one of the biggest ones what a lot of people don't realize about federal dollars is that there's

something called cost share. And what this means is that the federal government will say, Okay, we're gonna we're gonna pay of this, but is on you, the state or the city or the county to cover that cost. And you know, On the surface, that seems like, Okay, that's

pretty good, the federal government's gonna cover. But the reality is what this what happens is this really disincentivizes um especially lower income cities, uh, places that are harder hit by the economic effects especially this pandemic, that just don't

have the budgets to do it. So, yeah, you might have a place like Silicon Valley in California, Santa Clara County that says, oh, yeah, we've got we've got Google here, we've got the budgets, we have all this tax money we can pay to feed our citizens, and then not very far away in Stockton, California, they say, we don't have the money to do this, we can't afford that

cost share, so we're not going to feed anyone. And so really this has proven to be a big barrier in this pandemic where you have it's it's your incentivizing places that are already wealthy to provide food for their citizens and disincentivizing those areas that are already economically disadvantaged.

And so that needs to change. And so what we're trying to do is amend the Stafford Act to say the federal government during times of national emergency or there's an emergency disaster declaration, the federal government should be willing to pay that hundred percent and not stop people from from getting access to the food that they need. And so we're hopeful. So the bill was introduced with bipartisans

board in both the House and the Senate um. The language and the Feed Act was then incorporated into the Heroes Act, which was passed by Speaker Pelosi with the UM on the House and is now sitting in the Senate. Now, we we know that that that majority of anything good, we know that it is not going to survive as is, but we're hopeful that by continue to push the Feed Act in a bipartisan way in the Senate that some

of that that language could could survive. And we're hopeful because you know, we're seeing in both parties, we're seeing how food should be. You know, access to food should not be a political issue, right, we should not be fighting each other around a battle like this when it's good for for all of America. It's good for the Red states, the blue states of the Purple States, and so we're gonna keep pushing it. Um. We're hopeful that when the Senate sort of reconvenes on the next steps

of this issue. In June, we can I mean in July, we can continue to push for it. So so that's the goal. You know, I think, like you said, I mean, World Center Kitchen. We've you know, we we we've been wanting to you know, to get involved and push some of these initiatives forward. But this was something where it was just it was very clear cut with the work that we're doing, and we're hopeful that we can bring about some lasting change. This is not pandemic only. This

can be something that can really survive and live on. Yeah, well, you know what I'm what I'm hoping, um because for the time that I spent working on issues with Congress is that you know, they're they're not leaders in terms of you know, they're not going to stick their neck out and do something that you know, we'll give someone an opening when it comes to election time. And so when we see the lines of you know, people that are waiting to three hours mile long lines waiting for

food banks to get some food for the families. And these are people who you know, three months ago, they never thought in a million years that they would be on a breadline in their car. Um. And so you know, I'm hoping that that there'll there'll be a more empathetic sort of country who isn't gonna look at people in need and say, well, you you made your own bedline it or you know, pull yourself up by the bootstraps,

and you know all the rhetoric that we typically here. Um, are you know, on the ground, are you seeing people who were clearly middle class or even middle class or waiting in those lines, who who may have a different opinion of the work that you're doing, or may have a greater sense of empathy for for people who are struggling.

We have, Yeah, And I think exactly like you said, I mean what we're seeing now in this country is we've had a health crisis that has uh migrated to an economic crisis that really now is a humanitarian crisis. I mean, you go out to the Bronx, you go out to queens, Um, you know you will see families waiting in line seven, eight, nine hours to get a

box of food or you know, food to take home. Um. These are folks that were hard working individuals that were you know, we're doing their best and now really are have been left out in the cold. I mean we we have you know, forty plus million Americans out of work right now. That is not going to change right away. Um. And I think there's a bit of a fallacy, right. I mean, even in the restaurant industry right now around reopening restaurants, right there's a sense, oh, things are gonna

get back. It's not. I mean, we're not through this, and we need to recognize that. And I hope that that more folks are going to be realizing that and and put the resources and step up to the plate to be able to support our communities too. So we we don't see this, I mean, the the amount of time that we don't respond as needed is simply going to drag out our ability to get back to any semblance of normal. So you know, you mentioned I think

Harleman and Bronx. Uh, you know, cities, big cities. But how much work are you guys doing out rural areas because again my understanding that rural areas are getting hurts as hard as is urban areas. UM, people are struggling and because of the distance that you know, there's a lot more space, Um that that there's there's issues of transportation to get food as well. How much work are you guys doing out in rural areas. Yeah, so we're doing quite a bit, and we're trying to We're always

trying to identify and expand ways to do more. UM. You know, I think one of the real center pieces of our model to activate restaurants to produce meals that can go out into the community. So World Center Kitchen is paying restaurants UM generally around ten dollars a meal and the and those meals can be distributed into the local communities areas of need. Um. You know, World Center

Kitchen can't be everywhere. We're a small NGO. We can be in a number of places, UM, but restaurants are everywhere already, and so it's just common sense right to activate those restaurants. So we're now active. UM. I think today alone two eighteen cities and towns we're serving meals in and getting meals out to so we can reach

those places. UM. And we're also specifically targeting some some areas that are really hard hardest hit by COVID So in Arizona and New Mexico um Navajo Nation, the reservation there has been per capita one of the hardest hits UM. You know, intergenerational families living together. You have about eight grocery stores for this massive geographical area UM, and it's very difficult to get food to families and also be

able to support them to keep them isolated. So we've actually had to adapt our model UM in in Arizona, New Mexico to focus more on kits of food. So we went to households, we said, you know what types of food, what are you what can you cook? What? What do you want fresh produce? UM, you know what types of rice and beans and other ingredients to be able to prepare meals. And we've been putting together these food boxes UM that can produce about a hundred meals

eighty to a hundred meals per box. And then that way we're able to go out and deliver those two two much more remote rural areas where places where where families can't get to food banks, where families don't have access to prepared meals. So that's sort of a you know, a way that we've been adapting the model. We've also been working very heavily in Central California with a lot

of the farm workers UM. They're working with the United farm Workers Foundations, so you know, everywhere is a little bit different, and I think again that's why you have to evolve and adapt and be able to work um and understand what those local needs of the community is.

But for us, really that's listening. UM. But you're right, I mean that is I think moving forward over the next uh, you know, eight weeks, the coming months, it's going to be how do we make sure that we can support those those areas that are much harder to

reach than than our big cities. Right. Yeah, I think you just touched on something that I think is also really important, and that is if the feeding is spread out through restaurants, UM, you have a much better chance of providing culturally appropriate and you know, other people with

dietary restrictions. Uh, you can actually reach more people that way too, because it's not where you know, you're only doing one particular thing, and so you can have the restaurants that sort of how helpful and how helpful in their communities. Are kosher food, are are vegan food? UM. People that have different tastes, whether it's Caribbean, are African, are, um, what have you? And so so you have a much better chance of actually be much more inclusive with the

meals that you're doing. We kind of work to provide some guidance around what types of meals are going to work l for our purposes. So you have to have meals that um Oftentimes we will prepare meals that can also be like flash chilled and then um reheated later so they can be delivered to families. Sometimes they're delivered hot, but sometimes you might be delivering a couple of meals or a bunch of meals to a family that are going to cook later. So you know, some guidance around that.

But you know, what's what's really been amazing, and I think always the strength of chefs in general and restaurants is they know their stuff and so provide a little bit of feedback, a little bit of guidance, and there, you know, they kind of figure things out and we really want them to be able to do what they normally do best. And a lot of the restaurants we're working with are also open in some capacity. They might be doing take out, they might be doing some delivery

food as well. You know, we're not going in to supplement all of their business. We're trying to be a little bit of reliable income to them so they can bring back some you know, some backup house staffs and some cook staff, um. But we're obviously not going to replace their entire business, so a lot of them are also doing what they normally do, so we have to kind of slot into that a little bit as well. So we've we provide you know, a little bit of guidance.

But what we found is that restaurants have really you know, risen to the challenge overall. I mean, they're the chefs are creative, they're figuring things out, they're adapting their models a bit, they're trying to you know, work in this sort of post COVID world, and that's really what we've

we've we've seen has been working best. And we want them to also continue to buy from their existing suppliers because as you mentioned, you know, every dollar that we put into a restaurant, that we pay a restaurant for a meal is going to go to the food costs. Of course, going to go to the labor cost, it's going to go to the suppliers that are providing that food.

It's going to go to the farm that's providing the food to the distributor, and there's all this trickle down effect I think in in the restaurant industry that a lot of people don't realize, you know, on the surface. And again I think that's why it is so important for us to be able to support and uplift those

local businesses. So in in those communities we can we can pay a neighborhood place, a neighborhood spot that can produce those meals and and really you know see that benefit, um, you know, stay and that those dollars stay within that community rather than going to like a big government contractor exactly. Yeah, and and there's usually a multiplier effect from about a

dollar seventy five every dollar with those out. So it is great for the economy, which is the argument that you always trying to make with the with the government that if you want to stimulate the economy, and restaurants are a good way to do that. Um. Definitely. So you guys have been at this, I guess for about three months now since the pandemic started. Yeah, we have. So, yeah, we've been serving now for for three months here in

the United States. UM. And then even before then, we actually um in February, we were out in Japan working with the cruise ship in Yokohama that had been quarantined. So we were we were having to adapt and learn some new systems around food preparation and and and and pre prep and reheating and other things. And so getting those stems really honed. UM. But yeah, in the United States, and and we've also been working in Spain as well.

Spain was was really hard hit um after Italy, before the United States really took up the mantle as being the worst in the world in terms of our COVID response. UM. But us exactly, so we've served um about fifteen million meals fresh meals. UM. These are not you know, shelf stable,

these are freshly prepared meals. Fifteen million meals UM. Since that time, we've already put UM, we're we're nearing fifty million dollars that we've put directly back into the hands of small restaurants through this process, paying them to prepare meals. So you know, I don't think any of us at World Central Kitchen and UH and and otherwise really I think UM, when we started doing this work really appreciated

the scale of the need and what we're seeing. And UM, you know, we're producing close to three hundred thousand meals every single day all across the country. Some of that is we've got some some kitchens um that World Central Kitchen is is we're seeing. But most of this work now is through the local restaurants and and that's really we want to prove show that this model works, and not only for the pandemic. I mean, I think what's been what's potentially really you know, if there is a

silver lining. It's hard to say that, you know, with what we're facing right now, but you know, maybe just maybe we'll see some lasting change where the federal government, our cities, our states see the value of restaurants not just culturally, not just economically, but also as first responders in our communities. Absolutely, we're back. So I'm here with Nick Muck, who's the CEO of World Central Kitchen, and they have been just beating the drum on having a

government response, not so much a charitable response. What what does it take to get food on someone's plate in a disaster? What does that actually look like? And how do we get here? I've always said that like restaurants us, we are first responders. And it used to be that we were always there to sort of help with the charital response, and but but now it's the work that you're doing is just more directly and then of course the extending extending that through so many chefs and restaurants

across the country. UM, it's been really impressive. Any idea on how much longer you'll you'll need to do this for this pandemic. Yeah, it's it's a great question. It's one that that we're facing sort of constantly of of what is what is the ongoing need? Looking like we're always sort of adapting. Um, I think, you know, as as focused and attention is shifted from the health consequences of of COVID to the social justice issues that we're

seeing now across the country. You know, my hope is we don't disconnect the two because the reality is that they are integrated, right well, connect connect connecting for us. Yeah, So, I mean, we have we have populations now, we have we have communities that have been out of work for now three plus months. Um, there's there's very little hope in a lot of places in our country right now. There are neighborhoods, there are big cities that have you know,

essentially been abandoned by leadership and support. And I think you've got all of this frustration and lack of hope and lack of of of a of a future UM that has been bubbling up. And on top of that, you have the you know, the murder of of a man and police custody that has kind of boiled everything over. And we're you know, we're seeing the reaction to this UM.

But I think it's all interconnected. It's all if if families are struggling to put food on their table and they are frustrated, they're out of work, there's no hope and opportunity. UM, you know that that is going to lead to unrest, right because there there is, there is. Nobody knows what's going to happen tomorrow. And so I

think we have to be willing to invest in. We have to we have to, you know, provide the reforms that are that are so desperately needed in our criminal justice system and in our police uh in our policing. But we also need to tie very closely with that

the support for those communities. Get figure out if we can get jobs back in and see how we can we can divert attention and resources and money into these communities that so desperately need it right now, and make sure that there is access to food, there is access to to those you know, those day to day things that are needed. So yes, you're right, this this is about, you know, creating those economic opportunities. I mean, I mean people just kind of slides by, you know, to too frequently.

George Floyd was arrested for passing a counterfeit twenty bill. Well, he was arrest for passing a twenty oar council bill because he was trying to feed feed himself. I mean, you know, this wasn't this wasn't about doing some of the farious thing where I'm going out there and becoming a master criminal. He was just trying to like, you know, survive and and uh, you know this is about creating

economic you know, you know, opportunity. And this, again, I'm hoping, is another um sort of silver lining of in in a post COVID world is realizing how fragile so many people and how they're living on the edge and and how do you know this big business, you know, what role do they have to play? And stop looking at these quarterly you know earning reports where if you miss your earnings by a couple of pennies, you get hammered, and so the only way to make up those dollars

is through labor, and labors just getting crushed. And so you know, hopefully on the other side of this again this goes goes back to having a more empathetic country, is that you know, leaders of business, leaders, the Jamie Diamonds of the world are going to turn around and go, you know what, this is wrong and and something has to change or something has to give. But we're gonna

see unrest for a long time. And I think I think COVID Um, you know it's it's it's uh, it's underlying you know, the fragility in our health care system, in our in our food systems, um in in in uh, you know, the economic opportunities that people have in communities and just just exposed so many things. Um and uh. You know, hopefully in the post COVID world, UM, if there's another disaster, whether it's local or whether it's national,

that funding flows, people immediately can can get to work. Uh, you get through all the red tape and people don't have to wait a week or two before they get that first meal. Immediately it'll start happening, so absolutely, so, Nate, listen, I just want to say thank you for the work that you're doing. Is we're talking to Nate Muk, who is the man behind the man, the Saint um Josandris

I know as the chef owner in my restaurant. I get all the glory, but it's people like you who are behind us, who are making the wheel turn, uh, that make it happen. So so thank you for the work that you're doing with so listen. We all know that disasters are inevitable, so government should have a plan, but we find out they don't. In the absence of a plan, we have to rely on charity, but often

that just falls short. You know, if you're if you're listening to this podcast and the Feed Act hasn't passed yet, call your representative and let them know that you know what, cann drives are really cool, but we need a plan and the Feed Act is that plan. So can you get behind it? Can you co sponsor it? You're like, let's pass this special Thanks Nate Muk, the CEO of World Central Kitchen. Citizen Chef with Me Tom Collikio is

a production of I Heart Media. Christopher Hassiotis is our executive producer, just Lyne Shield is our researcher, and Gabrielle Collins is our producer and editor. Don't forget to subscribe, and if you like us, rate us. If you don't like us, well don't. Next we'll examine how our governments responded with food aid in localized catastrophes like we saw in New York City after nine eleven, and of course, in global emergencies like the COVID virus h