Cannabis Regulation and Food w/ Chef Andrea Drummer

to Citizen Chef. Today's episode is so exciting because we are talking about a new frontier in fine dining. Not only does today's topic inspired creative new interpretations in the restaurant and hospitality industry along with a totally different way to experience your food with the side helping of social justice, the pioneers in this field are making sure that there are new pathways to capital, not just for the entrepreneurs, but for all of those who have been wrong by

overregulation in the past. I am talking, of course, about cannabis, and so today we get to talk to two of those pioneers. Jeff Andrea Drummer is the woman behind the original Cannabis cafe in West Hollywood, which is the first cafe that to say license to serve cannabis along with its menu. And we're going to talk to her about the process of getting that license and the hurdles that she had to jump through, and how exactly orchestrate pairings so that I feel it's more like ordering from a

soma is opposed to a liquor store. We're also going to talk to Senator Kim Jackson of Georgia, who was elected to the state Senate this year. She co sponsored the bill to a men the States Constitution to legalize recreational consumption all under the larger mission of criminal justice reform. She helps to remind us that this is about more than just enjoying a nice buzz with our burgers and nachos. So please join me as we get in the weeds. U pun absolutely intended of cannabis and its new role

in the restaurant industry. Andrea, how you doing. I've got so many questions to ask you. This is crazy. So you may know New York State legalized cannabis and the first thing that came to mind was they're allowing cafes. I was like, I gotta figure how to get one of these. This is like, gotta do this and call them some people. You know, it's gonna take a few years. I just kind of started kicking around and seeing what

was going on out there. And it was really funny because I was shooting season seventeen of Top twelve in Los Angeles, and looking back on it now, it dawned at me that opening night I drove by. I looked to my left and I was like, what is going on there? What are they giving away at that place? And I had no idea what it was. A few days later I asked someone. They told me that, oh, yeah,

it's a canapis restaurant cafe that just opened up. So I guess I was driving by opening day and and so you know, it's one of these things where it happens and you file it away, and then you know two years later it's like, oh, that's what was, Yeah, that's what that was. What is that thing that you're doing there? This is a place where you can go and unwind, smoker and jest, eat great food, have a coffee, relaxed and just chill. And yet I guess it's a

hard path for this to happen. Yeah, so that the first question like why did you want to do this? And how long did it take it? What were the hooks and licensees to jump through? I want to learn all that, partly because I'm thinking of doing it. You should as you should. Interestingly enough, some years ago I did a consultancy with the James Nomad in Manhattan and I got them through a CBD menu for an in room dining experience, and it was going really well, and

that got shut down. And this was probably about three or four years ago. Fast forward, and here we are in West Hollywood, and what we did was lobby the city of West Hollywood to you know, permit these licensings for on site consumption. It was a wild go, but they were very open for that experience for so many reasons, including tourism, attraction and just you know, normalizing conversation about

cannabis consumption and thereby changing other laws. So we did that, lobb beat them, and then once they agreed to do it, there was a process of submitting application. There are only eight licenses permitted. All those eight licenses, right, most of them also offering a high end dining series. Yeah, already these open already of these actually functioning right now beside yours. Unfortunately none of them were able to come to bear

because of COVID. They were set to come online. I was absolutely looking forward to it, as we all were. Any entity participating in this. This thing is helpful to the community. So hopefully we'll be able to see those happened come through in the future. So you had to jump through some hoops just to get open. You're allowed to consume on premise, but she couldn't serve food and alcohol where you're consuming, And how did you work around that?

It is absolutely work around being the operative words. So we kind of had to split the cafe into two entities, one being a food service component and the other being essentially a dispensary. And the way that the cafe was set up it worked out in our favor. I think in the future as we delve into these conversations and we get the right people having the conversations, yourself included to understand one. You know, we were the first to bring it to bear, and so no one really knew

what that looked like. And now that we have a broader scope of what that should look like and how to integrate it into just regular day to day life, which is no different than ordering a bottle of wine. I think we could very well communicate that and get these policies and these ideals changed about you know, having to separate the entities in etcetera, etcetera, because it's really just an everyday experience. It's just life. So obviously you're

an advocate for cannabis. Were you always aving for cannabis? Absolutely not? Okay, absolutely Sometimes I feel like epigrite, but I like to ouch it under the guise of being reformed. I was once a prevention counselor was the first part of my career, and worked in on profit for many years. And my whole spield was cannabis as the gateway drug and therefore you should not consume. You will either end

up in prison or on skid rock. It was moving to California and kind of educating myself and learning more about cannabis and you know, not judging it is. Was there one specific, Aham and it was a series of things. At one point I worked for an advocate who was an attorney and he was also a consumer and I thought, oh,

this this man is brilliant. We have great conversations. He's going to court and winning his cases, so it can't be that bad, right, And again there was the educational component, understanding the propaganda and how myself I was used to push that agenda, understanding how the war on drugs led to mass incarceration, and so there was a paradigm shift there, and so I was just kind of open and everything

was ripe. And then switching gears and getting into the culinary industry and how that took a toll on my body and deciding for myself to become a patient of medical marijuana. Did you start advocating before you became a chef? Where you were you advocating for cannabis rights? And when I mean you touch a little bit on and car sharrace rates for small fraction like marijuana. Was that something

that you were advocated for before you started cooking? Or coincide in a small capacity, but more or less it did coincide with the transition of careers again, going into the culinary industry and having this having an impact on my body and making the decision for myself to medicate using medicinal cannabis and then understanding that you know, I

live in a state. That's twenty two plus years out in legalization for medical marijuana, look no less and I could still lose my livelihood, you know, And it did make sense to me. So that's when the work began. If you work for my friend Neil Frasier, is that right?

I did? I did? That was pretty phenomenal. How long into your chef's career where you and this happened two years in that about sciatica and I decided to go the route of infusing food and in two thousand and twelve that was That was a turn about for me and I've been on my own since that. So many people don't understand if legalized marijuana and there's there's greater access, I mean, maybe you can get people off opiates. Oh,

absolutely absolutely. It's the absolute opposite of being the gateway drug. Her listeners understand this. You can sell marijuana, you can sell edibles, correct infusions? Can you do infusions? Or we couldn't do infusions? All edibles had to be prepackaged. God, everything has to be prepackaged. Um, so you couldn't use like honey sticks and things like that as it honey sticks. Yes, how do you thinks you can't because it's a measured dose, right, correct, Yeah,

got it. Now we know why. So to get into how tell us more about the actual experience of visiting the original cannabis cafe. It sounds to be pretty stramped like a normal restaurant, except you can it was absolutely a normal setting, you know, and it was Yeah, it

was beautiful, to be honest with you. It's an absolute stunning just you know, a cafe that you would walk into in any given city that just happens to have cannabis and had, you know, a separate cannabis menu, and when you got bud tenders, someone was bringing over buds and and so there's a lot of it's education. You know, whenever I go into a store, a part of so much part of the experience is the education part of it. Absolutely, it's more than here, take a bag and you know,

going your way. Yeah, for sure, absolutely. And one of the exciting things for me was that we were creating new industry under the umbrella of this cafe. And so you know, our servers had to be versed as bud tenders as well, and then they and they as well, they had to learn to be efficient servers. So that comes with a new understanding. But yeah, us they were very efficient and understanding cannabis and had to relay this to the guests. So you have to explain the dose city,

to explain the different strains and how it's going to affect. You, understand the guests and their preferences and their tolerance level, etcetera. Right, So this is all waiters is there responsibility just to again, like you would sell a menu or sell a wine. Understand th h levels, understand potency, Understand this is gonna last long, This is gonna you know, you can get sleepy from this one. This one's going to speech up. You know all of that information absolutely when you go

in to a restaurant. He asked about the chicken, he said poland exactly right, right, so you you can you want to know, you know what what budger's looking, what farmers from farmers from, how it sours, how it's grown outdoor, indoor, organic or otherwise, how long the company has been in existence. Yeah, all of those great things. And it's important for the guests to fill a sense of comfort because this is

the first thing that's the first of it's kind. And so someone who just got in from Kentucky or drove in from the Bay Area. You know, they want to have a sense of comfort and know that the servers have their back and can explain in depth what the experience maybe right, and so some of the other screens where the offering seems a little i would say, pretentious, just a little more trying to sell us upscale as

opposed to food that is cravable. You know, you get cannabis induced cravings and you want to just you know, you want food that is is yummy, delicious and comfortable, but you certainly don't need a kind of crazy upscale, fancy setting. And it sounds like that's where you're providing a great experience that I think people want absolutely. You know, I wanted to create a menu that was just great food, cravable and complementary of the cannabis experience. So you know,

that's a lot of innovative as well. But you know, we have vegan nachos, which was one of the most popular menu items. You're great burgers, but you know, sourced appropriately again match the experience of cannabis. You know, we use local farmers, local growers, cannabis users take care about the budget spores, but did you get a sense of at a deeper level, they care about the environment, they

care about how their food has produced. Yeah. Absolutely, And we're here in California, so you have a lot of pures here with regards to their consumption of cannabis. And we'll see how that planes out accross the nation because we have had the freedom here in California to grow and what one might say appropriately or freely, you know,

without harming the plant. So I think in due time will have federal legalization where we could exchange product if you will, and exactly, you know, it makes sense to me. This is this is part of the farm to table movement when when you think about it, right, oh, absolutely, I can't imagine living in a state where we don't have that level of legalization and that freedom to grow and source appropriately. And a great part of my work is to see that happen on a global scale. So

you're certainly not the only one. And just a little bit we'll talk to a senator working to make that reality for many people who are not lucky enough to live in a state like California. But first I have a few more questions for Chef Andrea about what it's like to be both an advocate and a chef. Also, if you already have the munchies, don't worry. We're going to dig it to the food as well. We'll be

back with more citizen chefs. Welcome back. You're listening to Citizen Chef and I'm Tom Collikio, and we are talking about cannabis regulation in restaurants. Would work are in California doing our are on a federal level right now in terms of lobbying local governments federal governments. Are you working on that as those issues as well? We have been We've tried. You know, when I first got into the industry, part of my work was aligning with Drug Policy Alliance

and getting Top six before passed. We're still making a stink unfortunately, you know, we're you know, at the home of an administration that you know, spoke about legalization federally on a federal level, but I have not really addressed the issues or kind of skirted around it. So I don't know that we still have to continue to make noise and more people that we get involved in these conversations and to lobby in every city, in every place. I think the more movement, more traction we can make.

I think it's coming. I mean, I think you can't ignore it. No, absolutely not. No, I mean I love it. John Bayner, who was the Speaker of the House, who was dead set against it, is now on the board of a cannabis company, and uh so, yeah, it's you can feel different ways about these things, you know, especially as a as a black woman in this industry. But you know, all of it is good movement. And when I when I started out, I was called crazy that I even considered that there could be a cannabis cafe

or restaurant. The more we keep up and be more vocal about it and link arms in this movement of globally regalization and not just here in this country. But you know, the two thousand nineteen we opened the cannabis cafe, the first of its kind, so it could happen, and I have hoped that it will. Yeah. So it's interesting though it sounds like what you're actually asking for could

make it where your business isn't as unique anymore. If you're able to smoke openly, you could just step out out of any restaurant and you know, take your hits and go back and tide. If it's that normalized, that normalized means prison reform, that normalized means expungement for people, the true pioneers of this industry, So that all of that is important and right, that's all part of it.

It's right. So your advocacy obviously goes a lot deeper than just making sure a few restaurants can current administration has talked about it, although you know President By didn't run on it when asked, it was opposed, but it wasn't part of his platform. Do you think we have to wait till maybe President Harris are than sort of the next Democrat possibly, or do you think you can possibly get federal adaptation this administration? When this administration was

ushered in, I was hopeful. Conversely, some of the conversations I've heard around it is kind of back pedaled or or to say that we're going to set this aside for an hour. We're unable to address this thing. I think it may take the next Democratic administration. I don't know. Hopefully there's a turn about that's not going to stop anyone who's who's making noise and who's doing the work.

So you know, it sounds like the legalization of candadis on a federal level just needs to be more probably won't be a single voter issue, but it's got to be higher up there. Yes, absolutely, Yeah, I think you're going about the right way where economic comparative, there's also again the the justice, the social justice issue around what you're fighting for, which seems to be even probably more

important than the actual cafe itself. Yes, in the restaurant, is there literature about what you're doing on the other side of it? Are you building out the community of full legalization in the restaurant? Is that part of the mission? You know, when we first started this and initiate our application, all of those things were written into that, right, But the reality is, you know, when you get into the restaurant es you got to figure out a lot of things,

you know, especially especially the last year exactly. But I think now that we kind of got a handle on what it looks like, and I think there could absolutely be a focus on these very specific details, you know. I know one of our goals was hired some you know, people that had their records expunge or that we're re entering the space with non violent cannabis in fractions, if you will, so a lot of things that can be done.

We just have to figure out, you know we I mean, we were talking about systems of how to order, so how to order food versus cannabis, and how to you know, you know, maintain the letter of the law. So the crazy stuff. You have to do a lot of workarounds. We were, we were creative. We were like building doors, closing doors, closing entrances, you have to go outside to go to the restauranom. Yeah, it's a lot of it was.

There was a lot of things. But again, you know, we've been in the in the mix, in the thick up, so there's a greater understanding. And I also believe like the city of West Hollywood, being able to come there and see what it looks like and you're not like, you know, envisioning or imagining this thing in your head or thinking that there are people spilling out of the building high and fighting. And we had zero physical or violent incidents. That's a tame night in West Hollywood. Open

a bar and and and stake that claim. Let me know how it goes, right. I drove by almost every day, the cool thing, but I kept saying, please, just looks great. I want to go in there, and you know that was working most nights, so I didn't get a chance, but I wish you had next time. I am in California, which I'm not sure I have a restaurant. I haven't been in a while because of COVID, but I will definitely check it out. I want to check out the food. Tell me about food. Tell me what are you what

are you doing there? I mean I saw some of the menu. You talked about Vigano to talk about burgers, but what other credible items are there? I mean, what could people expect when they go into the restaurant. Just so our listeners can understand what they're in for when they go to it's now called the Original Cannabis Cafe. One of the draws was absolutely the brunch menu, port billion grits and chuck shuka, you know, some of some

of the fun menu items. The go to a lot of shared plates, so it made it was a good time. It's a great time to be creative and to think about the farm to table on both aspects. You know, it was a kind of a separate you know, you know, we had the kitchen going and then you had the Cannabis experience, but to collaborate with the front of the

house and do pairings as well. So we of course couldn't infuse the food, but I could take a menu item and pair it with a new product that was coming out of the dispensary and explain why that pairing works by the flavor profiles and the turpenes. All right, so let's get back into food. Who are some of your culinary heroes when you were in school or thinking

about cooking, Who who did you look up to? You know, I have to say, for very reasons Grant Ackets hearing his story about tongue cancer and having to use all of your senses to cook. I think that kind of gets lost, you know, especially when you're culinary school or taste everything, taste everything, and sometimes you know, you get in the weeds. Maybe you can't, but for me having to really um and at one point there was like

a two year period that I was completely vegan. But I'm cooking for constituents that ate lots of meat and so having to put that into practice. But just being so in tune with all of your senses when you cook, I think is so important and sometimes get lost with us. Yeah, I was talking about using your sense of hearing. Oh yeah, listening to this all you know, you can tell if something's cooking too hard, too fast, if it's doin too hard too fast. And I teach class I often talk

about it. Yeah. Absolutely, So what's next? Do you see another cafe? Can you do multiple cafes and they're more licenses or granted? I mean, do you see going out of California if you can in doing more in other states? So what's the future for you. One of the things that that we were able to do is lobby. The city was Hollywood. I think there are other cities, other places that would be interested in in hearing about these ideals.

And prior to COVID, I was in communication with one of those cities, Palm Springs, and they were interested in bringing something to bear. I see a limitations on where this could go. In fact, what we were looking to do is open one of the first cannabis inspired hotels, Boutique Hotel, and I still want to see that come to bear. But COVID hit and investors got a little skittish, understandable, But I don't I don't see any uh, I don't see any limitations. I and I've always said this from

two thousand and twelve when I got in industry. I see cafes, I see restaurants, see spas, hotels, destination experiences. There was one of the entities are supposed to be like a gaming experience. I think it for as much as you could create or envision it could have happened. Anything outside of cannabis can happen under the umbrella. I mean, what you're talking about is is a lot of these experiences, whether it's spa or whether it's gaming, it can be

enhanced by by the experience. Absolutely, it's not just an adjunct. It's not sort of, well, you have the experience, we're going to a spa and then you know you can get high to No, it's actually part of the experience. Yeah, do you have any recommendations for other chefs that are are looking to do this as a sort of state by state you've got to just figure it out. Of course,

it's state by state. But first and foremost, you know, be an advocate, lobby understand just as any chef has to understand the product and how to source it and what it means to the experience, what it means to have on site consumption, what what what it's going to mean to the city. So be versed in that, go to the things and and lobby and advocate for what you want to see to come to bear in your city, and then just be bold enough to execute PRIs. I mean listen here, I am like a am near middle

aged black woman having a conversation with Tom Collikio. So who's an older white dude. You know, I think we leave it at that. It's it's been great talking to you. And instead, if I'm in California, I'll definitely come and look you up. And uh, I would love to try your food, either stone or not. But this is a braving world and it's just you know, to me, it's

fascinating who actually is the first mover here? Um and how it happened because it's not gonna be the last day we're gonna see cafes and I agree with you, I think they'll they'll be a time when this is normalized and you know, part of the just part of the scenery and part of the experience. Um So, but it's it's great too. It's great to be able to talk to the pioneer Ya. Thank you so much. Thank

you for having me. Now that we have a sense of what it takes to be bold enough to make waves in the cannabis industry, we're gonna come right back with another pioneer working to make the same type of change, but in a different arena. Stick with us. Chief Drummer is such a pioneer in her field. But one thing that was so evident in both our research and in our conversation with her is that reforming the regulation of cannabis is such a larger issue than just allowing it

into restaurants. This is especially true when you look at it from a national perspective, since it's not been legal as on a federal level yet. So we wanted to speak to someone on the front lines of fighting for reform in a state where marijuana is still illegal. We are so lucky to get to talk to Senator Kim Jackson, who was elected to the States Senate this year, and one of her first acts was co sponsoring a resolution

paving the way to decriminalize cannabis. She's also been working on the Agriculture and Consumer Affairs committe to work on the state's practices surrounding him, and is just an all around great person to talk to you about the bigger picture when it comes to cannabis. Hi, We're thrilled to have you. You're already doing so much for the great state of Georgia, and I cannot wait to hear more about why the legalization of cannabis is so important to

your platform. You can tell us a bit about yourself and your remarkable career even outside of being a state center, I serve Stone Mountain, Clarkson and Tucker in Georgia really great places for those of you who may not be from around these parts. When I'm not working as a Senator, which is kind of always, I also am an episcopal priest, and I have the great privilege of serving a congregation of people who are currently experiencing homelessness in downtown Atlanta.

So when it comes to this topic of cannabis, I have a number of reasons why I'm deeply passionate and care about it. But one of the first reasons is because the people who attend my church have often found themselves caught up in a criminal justice system that quite frankly was in just particularly when it pertains to their use of cannabis. Jackson cites her own work as a priest as the key component in shaping the way she approaches cannabis. In particular, she notes the benefit of the

plant for her constituents experiencing homelessness. My prissioners sleep outside. Many of them are folks who have been trying to find a way to kind of make it through really difficult times in life, and they do things to survive. They do things also to just relax and find themselves just some peace, and quite frankly, marijuana has been one of those sources of relaxation and peace when you're living

in survival mode. Just being able to kind of sit back and relax and chill with some folks has been really helpful. And uh, and so I recognize that as a recreational analysists in some ways as a source of kind of soothing their souls in the midst of a

really deeply difficult time in their lives. And so that's been a part of my own story of just watching and being in relationship with these folks who live outside, and as a past that's part of my job too, is to help soothe their soul, right, Like, that's really really part of my work. But I also recognize that they use cannabis for recreational purposes and for some soul healing. But also you know, I serve a district of people who lived just outside of Metro Atlanta. We are a

majority African American district. The average age is only thirty two in my district. So we are young, and we are people of color, and so we enjoy finding ways to recreate with one another. So you're arguing about cannabis soothing the soul makes so much sense to me. Cannabis is definitely not the first tool people think of when they think of the work as a as a senator and a priest. But how do you reconcile people the view of the scripture and your own interpretation, and how

does cannabis play into that. Yeah, So I like to remind people that the very first miracle that we have recorded of Jesus is that he goes to a party and he turns water into wine so that they can continue their party. For me, that is an incredible lesson and metaphor for the value of a party and the value of having some enhanced substances that helped to enjoy

that party. Right, And I know some people will listen to this and sound like, Hey, this sounds like heresy, but I think that there's real legit evidence within scripture that talks about the use of natural substances, right, Like cannabis is a naturally occurring substance that God helped create. Right.

And also, I'm really clear, and this is some of the work that I do with my parishioners is to talk about you know, God calls us to live a life of moderation and all things in moderation, right, And so I think that there's really great theological grounding for us being in that place. And and certainly if we look beyond kind of the traditional Christian religion, there are other, many, many examples of the use of psychedelics to help enhance

people's spiritual experiences. You know, mushrooms like those are those are coming to the world of cooking light. Let's be clear, there's so so many tragedy sational religions across this this country and across the world that have used mushrooms in particular to enhance their relationship with the spirit in the spirit world. So cannabis has never adjument about recreation. It's

not just about recreation or relaxation. It's also about healing, and I would make the argument as a pastor in the priest that that healing is not just physical, but there is a way in which we're able to connect spiritually in a deeper way, and that that has some spiritual healing aspects to it as well. Restaurants do they have a role in fighting the stigma against cannabis. One of the reasons why I think that having cannabis and restaurants is important is because it helps us in this

process of destigmatizing the use of cannabis. So think about it. You go to a nice restaurant anywhere, and they're going to offer you wine to go with your meal because they understand that wine helps enhance the experience the flavors.

You know. There there's all kinds of thought senses, And I'm not a chef, but I do know that there are people who think very intentionally about the pairing of a wine with a particular pasta, a particular meat, and the same thing could be true and should be true as it relates to marijuana and how it's infused in

different foods. Uh So, I imagine a world where you go to a nice restaurant and you're offered wine, but you're also offered cannabis because that's a part of the process of enhancing the experience of the food, and it ultimately will do this work of helping to destigmatize the use of cannabis as a general use that people participate in. And so one of my goals with this podcast is to address the stigma that comes along with cannabis, especially

as we discussed the potential benefits of the plant. You know, you mentioned the hurdle that you're facing in Georgia. So I was wondering if you could tell us a bit more about why these thigmas are in place and your goals with the bill that you preferred back in February. S R one six five was written by Shake Rahman. He is a state senator here. He's actually the only Muslim state senator here in Georgia. And so s R one simply creates a pathway for us to begin the

process of decriminalizing marijuana. It's a resolution, so it wouldn't be a law, but it lays out the legal pathway for us to move in that direction. Now, again, we live in a very red state right now in terms of who's in power and because of the great stigma both religious and I think social and racist stigma connected

to it. We don't believe that s R one sixty five will move, but it is a really clear signal to people that that's the direction that we that shake Raman and that I am moving in and I believe that we as a party, as Senate Democrats, are moving towards. Is the process of decriminalizing marijuana. Is this industry that literally starts to grow and it quits so many people

who ended up incarcerated because if a marijuana charge. The irony would be that they're left out of the marijuana business, and not even that they're getting a license to grow, but that they're allowed to work either in the dispensary, are working on a farm, are working in the marketing of cannabis, being in the cannabis industry, and the irony that's that's someone who lost the ability to work because of a cannabis charge can't work in the cannabis industry.

It doesn't make sense to me. Right. So, Georgia's laws around prohibiting people who have felonies from growing hemp, those are Georgia's specific laws, but the federal regulations also limit if you have a felony drug conviction, you cannot get a license to grow hemp for the ten years after you finish your sentence. So even on our federal level, so I want to encourage people wherever you are in this nation to check your local laws and your federal laws.

We are actively discriminating against people who simply want to put their hands in the dirt and grow something that's useful, right, grow something that is helpful in healing to our souls, and we are saying, no, you can't do it if you have a felony drug convictions and it's less than ten you since you've had that felony joke condition, I want to just name you. Know, you asked about stigma associated with cannabis, and the reality is it's all rooted

in racism. And we have a long trajectory here in the United States. If any time we find a people group that is using a substance that is different from what the majority white culture has been using, it suddenly becomes illegal. And that is what has happened with marijuana. And so until we really confront our racist past and the racism that is rooted in these practices, we're not going to be able to overcome them. And I can give you a great example of what that looks like

here in Georgia. So I'm sitting on the Agriculture committee here in Georgia on the Georgia Senate, and we were reviewing our practices for growing cannabis in the hemp form, and we restrict people in Georgia. If you are a convicted felon for any felony, you cannot grow hemp in Georgia. You cannot receive a license. And I asked during committee, I said, you know, if I wanted to grow corn, can I be a convicted felon? Yes, of course, if I wanted to grow tomatoes, is it okay if I

have a felony on my record? Sure? And hemp, let's all be clear. Hemp is not something that you can get high from. And I's like, so, hemp is not something you can get high from. But you're still telling me that if I'm a convicted felon, I cannot grow hemp. And the answer was yes, because it's too close to

the drug. Right. So that's the kind of built in racism and stigma that we have even in hemp farming, and I'll tell you the amount of like somersaults that we do in Georgia to make sure that our hemp producers are not producing hemp that has higher levels of th HC. They're extraordinary because it's almost like we have this great fear and in fact that a former Georgia Agriculture commissioner used to refer to hemp as the of

all lettuce. So not only is racism kind of build into this, there's also some real interesting religion and theological understandings around what marijuana is about that's also being built into why currently there's just great stigma around the use of and the growing of cannabis. As we conclude this episode, New York State has just legalized recreational use for marijuana. In the law, there is space for restaurants and cafes, and obviously in New York State is still trying to

figure out how that's all going to work. I'm hoping that obviously that when these licenses are given out, that they're keeping people who have been incarcerated for minor marijuana violations and hopefully that those some fractions are going to be held against them when it comes time to issuing those licenses because I think people who parts their years of their lives were taken away, especially under a three strike rule or some something like that, where at least

they could benefit from new regulations because they were put in jail for maybe you know, having possessed of a small amount of marijuana and that you know, they ended up in jail, and hopefully when these regulations change, hopefully they can benefit from from that. Right, So, I will say so I am deeply passionate about issues of criminal justice reform and in decarceration of people, the ending of

mass incarceration. It's one of the platforms that I ran on and before I even became an elected official, that was the activism that I engaged with. And what we know is that there are literally thousands, thousands of in particularly black men, but black women are not you know, precluded from this as well. But there are thousands and thousands of black folks who were sitting in our prisons today because of silly little convictions over the possession of cannabis.

And it's often even small amounts of cannabis. And so part of this work of decriminalizing and de stigmatizing the use of cannabis is about helping to set people free. I will say one of the things that I feel very much called to in my life is about helping set people free. Uh. And so if we can decriminalize cannabis, then we can get people out of prison and they can move forward with their lives and more in ways

that our whole and healthy. I would go further to say that when we decriminalize cannabis, it will open us up to beginning to explore and to think more critically about how we do criminal justice as it relates to drug uses in general. I am of a school of thought that believes that people who are addicted to drugs

need treatment, not prison. They need treatment not jail. I believe that if we can do this work of thinking critically about cannabis, then we can also begin the work of thinking importantly and critically about how we do drug treatment broadly and move folks from prison to treatment to freedom. So, if you're sitting there wishing you knew how you could help address some of these issues and your local jurisdictions, the Centator had some suggestions and what you can do

on a national level as well. So I want to encourage folks as they are doing the work of serving advocates and activists around the legalization of cannabis, and lawmakers in particular to give special attention to making sure that we build in equality into the process of being able to farm for cannabis. So when I talk about issues of restricting people from being able to grow cannabis because they have a felony like that is a form of

systemic racism and we have to avoid that. I will say that in all of our talks about policy here in Georgia, for whether it's growing hemp or medical marijuana or hopefully ultimately legalized cannabis, our goal is to make sure that we write into it provisions to ensure that black farmers have access to that work. That's really really important,

and we can't do it accidentally. What we know about these United States, particularly when it comes to introducing kind of new revenues for people to enter into, whether it's licensed to be able to sell alcohol or a license to be able to grow cannabis, unless we intentionally say that their provisions to make sure that minority farmers, black farmers in particular get to have access to those then accidentally on purpose, because racism is built into the system,

it'll all be white farmers and we can't have that right. And so yes, here's the reality. Black folks have been selling marijuana and making their life work through the selling of marijuana on you know, kind of underground, and when we legalize it, we have to be careful to not undermine those folks who have made their livelihood from selling

it underground. So we need to make sure we have access and avenues for folks who've been selling it currently, who are working is what we kind of colloquially called street pharmacists, making sure that they have safe avenues into the practice of continuing to be able to sell that product in a way that's legal and that supports their livelihood. Thanks again to both Chef Andrew Drummer and Senator Kim

Jackson for joining us. I have a feeling this will not be the last time we discussed the intersection of cannabis and food. You know, I get excited about any new innovation in the fool world, but it means even more when it's so closely is tied to justice for so many. Let's hope that the original Cannabis Cafe is just the beginning of a new wave of cannabis experiences, and with legislators like Senator Jackson, I have no doubt

we'll start to see things change. Citizen Chef is executive produced by Christopher howse Yodas, produced by Gabby Collins, and researched by the Lilian Pullman. Citizen Chef is a production of Piheart Radio. For more podcasts, visit the I heart Radio app. Apple podcasts are anywhere you subscribe to podcasts.