[Cities 1.5 main theme music]
David 00:04
I'm David Miller and you're listening to Cities 1.5, a podcast by University of Toronto Press, produced in association with The Journal of City Climate Policy and Economy and C40 Cities, a global network of nearly 100 of the world's megacities, committed to accelerating climate action. C40's mission is to halve the emissions of its member cities within a decade, while improving equity, building resilience, and creating the conditions for everyone, everywhere to thrive. Join me as I connect with leading mayors, experts, policymakers, and youth leaders who are helping ensure a 1.5 degree world by leading city-based climate action.
Each week, we delve into the necessary transformative solutions to today's most pressing climate challenges. The fight for an equitable and resilient world is closer than you think. [Cities 1.5 main theme music fades out]
[urgent, percussive music] Here at Cities 1.5, we discuss what cities can, and are, doing to combat climate change, while also considering how cities can communicate these policies. In this episode, we're looking into the most effective ways for policymakers to share their ideas for climate action with the public. Communication means exchanging and listening to ideas, and in the climate context, fighting back against the propaganda of the fossil fuel industry, of far-right political movements, and online conspiracy theorists. [music fades out]
[upbeat, energetic music] Mayors and governments need to think about how they communicate with their constituents about their plans for phasing out fossil fuels and the path towards a healthier climate, especially our youth leaders, who deserve a seat at the table today, if you want them to have a world left to inherit tomorrow. And if we're serious about shifting the narrative, we have to ensure that we're all on the same page.
In this episode, we look at data, case studies, and examples of effective communication strategies that are helping shift the narrative around climate action in North America. [music fades out]
[light, rhythmic music] First, we'll hear from Andrea Everett at Climate Nexus. I sat down with her to capture the findings from the most recent polling data on the phasing out of fossil fuels. [music fades out]
[upbeat, electronic music] Next, we'll hear my conversation with Lori Lodes of Climate Power, an organization which integrates hard-hitting research, polling, and media messaging to influence the national conversation and embolden leaders to take immediate climate action. [music fades out]
[light pizzicato string and percussive music] And finally, I had the pleasure of speaking with three exceptionally bright middle school students from Toronto, Canada – Alysa, Ecrin, and Zeynep. They're doing a great job of reminding us why we need to change the conversation, and whose voices need to be involved to make that happen. We'll listen to their original song at the end of this episode, so stay tuned after the credits. Let's get started. [music fades out]
[light, rhythmic music] Andrea Everett is the Senior Director of Survey Research and Data Science at Climate Nexus. Her interest in opinion research began in graduate school with a desire to understand how public attitudes affect foreign policy outcomes. Prior to joining Climate Nexus, Andrea conducted survey and social science research in the private sector and worked in academia as an Assistant Professor of International Affairs. Andrea joined me live for a discussion at the Cities Summit of the Americas in Denver, Colorado, on April 27th, 2023. [music fades out]
Andrea, welcome to Cities 1.5.
Andrea Everett 04:20
Thank you so much, David. I'm so happy to be here. At Climate Nexus, we're in charge of collecting data on public attitudes and perspectives and awareness about a wide variety of climate change- and clean energy-related issues, and then we use that data to help inform strategic communications around those issues, thinking about how we can present them and talk about them in ways that resonate with people. This was a way of connecting my passion for public opinion research with trying to make a practical difference in how we address the world's most important problem.
David 04:54
Can you talk a little bit about the kind of research that Climate Nexus has been doing on public opinion as it relates to the use of gas, when you conducted the research, perhaps why, and where?
Andrea Everett 05:07
As you know, gas is an issue that Climate Nexus spends a lot of effort on. And so, about four years ago, Climate Nexus started collecting survey data on public attitudes around energy sources and a whole variety of issues related to gas in the United States, in particular. So, the research that we do is with US adults. We typically do representative samples of American adults. So annually, starting I think it was in 2019, we began, once a year, doing a survey that allows us to track how people are thinking about all these issues over time, and it's a pretty wide-ranging survey so we ask about what people think of renewables as well as gas and other fossil fuels and energy sources, we ask questions related to electrification and appliances and building policy, we ask questions around gas exports, we ask questions around quite a different range of things, and it varies over time, depending on, you know, what's happening in government, because a lot of it has a policy focus.
David 06:12
It must be interesting to have multiple years of tracking data. Can you speak to what the data shows us about public attitudes to gas in 2023, and then your insights about how mayors and their staff can implement progressive policies to reduce the amount of gas used—eliminate, if possible—and the kind of messaging challenges they'll face?
Andrea Everett 06:40
Sure. So, the data that we have that's most recent was collected in February of 2023. [gentle music] In broad strokes, you know, most Americans have positive opinions of gas, and there are a few reasons for that. They tend to view gas as a form of clean energy. They definitely tend to view it as reliable. A lot of people also have personal experience with gas, and they enjoy cooking with it. You know, they find that their gas appliances in their homes work, and they're used to them, so it's not really surprising that people have positive views about it. But at the same time, we do see that people are increasingly getting some information and being exposed to media coverage that calls into question, you know, whether gas is a positive thing and points out the fact that there are health risks associated with it, there are climate risks associated with it. [music fades out] So, you know, for example, this past January, there was a lot of media coverage in the United States around gas stoves in particular and the health risks of them and current debates about potentially policy regulations of gas stoves. And so, we were actually able to see that both over the course of 2022, and then in particular, between late 2022 and early 2023, people's awareness of gas as a health issue and of stoves as a health risk really increased.
At the same time, there's a lot that people don't really know and, in particular, when it comes to policy, there are a couple of major policy efforts focused on gas in the US, both at the federal and the state and local level. One of those, of course, is related to the Inflation Reduction Act that was passed last year. So, we have all these opportunities for people to take advantage of tax incentives and rebates and credits for switching from gas to electric appliances, and people, when you ask them about that, they, on balance, are favourable toward those policies, but they're also not really that familiar with what's available. So, a lot more people say that they think those policy ideas are good ones than can tell you what credits and incentives might be available to them. So, that's definitely an opportunity to help inform people about what the Inflation Reduction Act, what other local policies that make it easier and more financially feasible for people to switch to electric appliances, what those policies are doing, what you need to do to be able to take advantage of those funds, etc. It's definitely an opportunity for helping to inform people.
The other area that is getting a lot of attention is around the electrification of new buildings, and we've also been asking some questions about people's attitudes about this. And, you know, this is an area that is a little bit more controversial because it does introduce the possibility that some people might not be able to have access to gas appliances or gas stoves, if that's something that they would want and they were, you know, like living in a new building, for example. But, when we ask people what they think about those policies, they're roughly split between people who oppose the idea of requiring all new buildings, for example, in their local community to be 100% electric and people who oppose that idea. But, it's also the case that most people haven't really heard too much about this either. And so, there's definitely an opportunity there again to help inform people about what these policies are intending to do, and what the advantages of them can be.
David 10:09
I get the impression from your data that people don't actually know what a problem gas is – that gas, when you take into account the leaks, it's more or less as dirty as coal, and that it's a huge part of the climate problem. Is that a fair conclusion to draw from your research over the past several years?
Andrea Everett 10:28
Yes, it is. You know, we ask people whether or not they perceive gas to be a clean source of energy, and the majority of them say that it is or say that they're not sure, which basically suggests that people either tend to think that it's fine, or they haven't really given much thought to the issue.
David 10:46
I also had the impression, from your data, that people didn't realize that clean sources of electricity, for example, have a stronger economic impact in terms of jobs—which our report shows—than fossil fuel infrastructure like gas. "Gas is something that's been around, it's called natural, it's not a problem" is the plurality of respondents.
Andrea Everett 11:13
Yeah, I think that's right, and I think that, to the extent that people are being exposed to information that calls it into question, it is more on the health side with media coverage and information that's been coming out about its health risks, which is obviously very important, but I do think that there's less awareness of its climate impact. [somber music] So, in that context where people maybe aren't fully aware of the problem we're facing, from a climate perspective and from a health perspective, what lessons are there from your research over time, from 2019 to 2023, and any changes in attitudes that you're seeing over that time? What lessons are there for mayors as they try to implement policies to dramatically reduce the reliance on gas within their jurisdiction and, for that matter, use their voices, their bully pulpit to influence change elsewhere?
Andrea Everett 12:11
I think it's important to meet people where they're at when you approach them about these issues. And what I mean by that is, you know, people are going about their daily lives, and they're not focused on where they're getting their energy from all that closely, as long as it's reliable, and they can afford it. But, there are some things that everybody cares about, right? They care about their pocketbook, they care about saving money, they care about jobs, they care about their family wellbeing and security, and so know now that there are ways in which phasing out gas, switching to renewables that cost less, can help people to save money. Switching to electric appliances can help people save money. But people don't necessarily know that, and they don't necessarily have the data to help them understand what that would look like for their family budgets.
And I think the other thing to know is that, while it can be hard to get people's attention because they are busy and focused on their own lives, when you do get their attention, new information really can and really does have the ability to shift attitudes. [music fades out] So, you know, just because people may not know all that much about these issues right now, or just because you might see some data that suggests that people oppose some policy proposals that would be geared toward phasing out gas, it doesn't mean that things have to stay that way, right? A concerted campaign to approach people in your community, to help them understand these issues, share with them how their lives can be better through these policies, it really does have the potential to move people, and so I would hope that mayors can go into those conversations with the knowledge and the confidence that, if they put in the effort, they can make a difference.
David 14:01
I understand that you've tested that idea through some of your research. Can you take us through some of the numbers about whether people are receptive, and when they know more, if and how their opinion changes?
Andrea Everett 14:13
Yeah. So, one of the ways that we looked at this in our data was, in one of our surveys, we asked people a series of questions at the very outset of the survey before we talked to them about gas in a lot of detail, before we presented them with information or messages around it. So, we asked some baseline attitude questions, and then we asked the same questions at the end of the survey after we had given them quite a bit of information around reasons why, you know, gas is a health risk and different messages as to why moving away from it has a lot of benefits. And so, what we did was we compared the responses to those questions at the beginning of the survey and at the end so we could see basically how the total of the information that we exposed them to over the course of this 10-minute survey changed the way they were thinking about these same questions. So, one of those questions was, "Do you consider natural gas to be a clean source of energy?" And at the beginning of our survey, more than half of the people—52%—said, "Yes, we do," and only 22% said, "No." By the end of the survey, those numbers had flipped. 52% of respondents said that they did not consider natural gas to be clean energy, and only 32% said that they do. We also made some inroads among people who weren't sure and didn't know what they thought about it at the beginning. The percentage of people who said they weren't sure dropped from 26% to 16%, so that was down by 10% too.
David 15:41
That tells me that there's significant potential for mayors to use their voices, the voices of their public servants, public information campaigns to help educate people about the real risks of gas.
Andrea Everett 15:56
Yeah. And another thing that I thought was interesting was, we saw that not only people's kind of general attitudes change, but when we talk to them about their own personal preferences for what they want to use in their homes, those preferences change too over the course of this survey. [urgent, percussive music] So, we asked people, for example, if they were thinking about purchasing or renting a new home or condo or apartment, would they prefer to use all electric appliances in their homes, or all natural gas appliances, or alternatively, would it not matter to them one way or another? And, over the course of that same survey that I mentioned, we saw an increase in 12 percentage points in the percent of people who said they'd prefer to use all electric. So, even when we're thinking about, you know, what people want to use at home, giving them new information about these issues can really make a difference in their thinking.
David 16:45
Terrific. So, what other conclusions did you reach that might be useful to mayors, policy people, practitioners, and even academics in their work about the communication of why we need to address the challenge of gas, and how?
Andrea Everett 17:03
I'm going to take the how question first. [music fades out] If you present these policies in ways that highlight what is proactively going to be changed, rather than highlighting what's going to be taken away from them, what might be unavailable, the fact that you will not be able, for example to, you know, use a gas stove or a gas heater in your home, it's not like people aren't going to be aware that those changes are happening and that certain choices aren't going to be available, but you don't want to make it sound like it's something that you're excited about, that you want to take away choices from them, right? You want to present it in a way that clarifies the gravity of the issue and why you're doing it, and nothing that makes it sound like you're excited to, for example, ban these things.
David 17:52
Right. You don't put a Superman badge on your chest and run down the main street saying, "I'm banning gas."
Andrea Everett 17:59
Right.
David 18:00
You know, there's potential there to have an adult conversation with people and say, "We have this problem, it's a collective problem, and we'd like you to help us do your part, and some of it might benefit you. There's subsidies available. Some of it might be a bit hard, but if we can get in it together, we might solve it."
Andrea Everett 18:21
This is all easier if this doesn't become politically polarizing, right? And we have some data that shows that policy questions around gas and energy, more broadly, are to some degree, politically polarized, and we saw some of that with the recent conversations in media coverage of stoves. But, there's other data out there that shows very clearly that, across the political spectrum, people really liked the idea of clean energy, and they really liked the idea of renewables. And so, also tying these conversations to not just what might be going away, but what's replacing it and the fact that people like those things that we're talking about replacing it with, that, I think also has the potential to be very powerful.
David 19:00
Well, very powerful data, and put extremely well. One final question – mayors or their staff, if they want the support or advice of Climate Nexus, how do they go about that?
Andrea Everett 19:12
Ah, well, they can start by contacting me. [light, rhythmic music] We do have a variety of teams that focus on communications around a whole range of energy and climate issues. And so, I can help to put them in touch with my people.
David 19:28
Excellent. Well, that's the perfect note to end. Thank you so much for being on the podcast, but more importantly, thank you for your ongoing everyday work. We need facts and knowledge if we're going to address this challenge. Your work really matters.
Andrea Everett 19:45
Well, thank you, and thank you for the opportunity to share the data. [music continues then fades out]
David 19:59
[percussive, orchestral music] Lori Lodes has been the Executive Director of Climate Power since its inception in 2020. She is a communication specialist who has worked for prominent advocacy groups, unions, political campaigns, and corporations. Her work with Climate Power was instrumental in creating the public support for climate action that enabled the passing of the groundbreaking Inflation Reduction Act in the United States. Climate Power and Lori are also helping cities and mayors to seize the opportunities presented by the Act. Lori joined me for a remote interview on August 15th, 2023. [music fades out]
Lori, welcome to Cities 1.5. I wonder if you could just tell us a bit about your background for our listeners, so they understand both Climate Power, and also a bit of your personal history from a communications perspective.
Lori Lodes 20:54
Thank you so much, David. Good to be here. I started Climate Power three years ago, with my mentor and former boss, John Podesta, who's now leading clean energy implementation at the White House. I like big ideas, I like big challenges and figuring out how we can turn those big policies into actual legislation, and then make sure that legislation is durable. So, I worked to pass the Affordable Care Act, and then fought to make sure that it stayed the law of the land for about, you know, 10 years. [chuckles] And so now, I've been working at Climate Power for the last three.
There's a lot of lessons to be learned from just having been involved with it from, you know, really, the beginning, and having passed it and seen what we did and did not do, and how we communicated about it, and how we were not able to communicate about it. A lot of that is what I'm doing now, right? It's putting those lessons into practice for climate. We don't want to make the same mistakes that we made during the Affordable Care Act. With health care, it took us a decade before we made any other improvements on it. We don't have a decade though, on climate, right? We have to keep on working and improving and taking more steps, and so that's what our organization at Climate Power is really focused on is, like, how do we make sure that the climate legislation that has passed—the Inflation Reduction Act—is not just a start, or is not the only thing or is not rolled back? And how do we make sure that it's durable? And that's really about telling the story and what it means to people's lives.
David 22:32
Well, let's talk about that, and start from the perspective of lessons learned. You were involved in a battle to pass this groundbreaking health care legislation and then a 10-year battle to make sure it stayed and got improved. What are the big lessons you take away from that for climate, which, as you say, is incredibly urgent? We need to have global emissions by 2030, which is in seven years. What were the key lessons you took from that, that led both to the creation of Climate Power and how you're doing your work today?
Lori Lodes 23:05
So, we started Climate Power, hoping against hope that we could be at this moment, seeing the narrowing window get close so much. And so, in 2020, it was really, can we make climate a part of the political conversation? You know, understanding what happened in 2008, we had an election where every single Democratic candidate ran on health care, and ran on having a plan on health care. Barack Obama, who became President, of course, had a climate plan as well as a health care plan, but because President Obama ran on health care, he then governed with that being a North Star to the political peril of many. But, what we needed to do in 2020 was to do the same thing. How do we make sure that whoever the Democratic candidate was—now, President Biden—would embrace climate as being a critical issue that needed to be addressed so that he would then govern on it? And that's what we've done, right? He ran on climate and taking bold action, and he's delivered, and he made it a priority to pass the Inflation Reduction Act over a very, very steep interest in oil and gas. CEOs are not an easy foe to take down, and he really, against all odds, made it happen by putting his shoulder into it a lot.
But, the big thing, as far as lessons learned, is we had the campaign to pass the law. So many organizations from I was at Service Employees International Union, one of the largest labour unions in our country, but we were working with pharmaceutical companies and insurance companies, as well as progressive groups and sort of all across the spectrum with this idea that we could make health care more affordable for people. And so, we sort of replicated that in climate, but what we didn't have in health care was really the plan for, what do we do next? How do we, so call, win the win? How do we tell the story of it? And so, that's what we are really wanting to make sure that we do.
[driving music] It's not enough to have the right policies or have strong policies, maybe imperfect policies. It's not enough to have good implementation. You have to tell the story. You need to sell it to people, and make sure that people understand what's in it for them, how they can benefit, how it's going to show up in their lives or the lives or their friends or in their communities. And that's what we're really focused on at Climate Power is making sure that people understand what that story is, and also how to communicate about it, right? Our focus is on building the political will and the public support, and so we're doing a lot directly to communicate to people that this is going to take all of us, right? It's going to take mayors, it's going to take governors, it's going to take other elected leaders, as well as community advocates to really help tell that story. [music fades out]
David 26:10
A lot of our mayors, when they take progressive action on climate, find themselves faced with communications campaigns either aligned with, or financed by, historic fossil fuel interests, and they don't always necessarily tell the truth. So, it's a very difficult place in which to communicate, even though polls show, globally—not just in the United States—the vast majority of people want climate action and understand how serious the issue is. Can you speak a little bit about the actual communication and the way you engage the public, and lessons learned from that about communicating about climate, which is both complex and has these entrenched interests who, at a minimum, are trying to muddy the water, if not stop action altogether?
Lori Lodes 27:01
Yeah, I mean, definitely trying to stop action altogether. I think the big thing that has changed is just how much extreme weather has hit people's doorsteps, how much climate action—or climate change, I should say—has become a kitchen table issue. That's really new. Half of the country, over 180 million people have been, like, living in the scorching heat or facing a climate disaster just in the past few months, and that part, it's the irregularity of it showing up in people's lives that I think has helped sort of turn a corner. You know, for myself, I live in Connecticut, and I have a five-year-old son who's at camp, and we now get smoke alerts, right, from the smoke coming in from Canada, that's affected when and how he's able to go to camp. And that's not just us. It's happening all the way down to Atlanta. And so, the reason I want to start there, because it is a part of people's lives, and that is really one of the big, I think, points that we need to think about, or how we talk about it, is to really connect with where people are. You know, they're not necessarily thinking about every day, when they're going to need a tax rebate. They are thinking about how they're going to adjust to help their family get through whatever that extreme weather disaster is, touching their lives. So, that's a piece of it, is sort of meeting them where they are.
I think the other big piece is to talk about the opportunity, right? This is not about telling people what they can't do; it's about giving us a chance to take on the climate change crisis and also rebuild our economy and to strengthen our middle class, and to create hundreds of thousands, if not millions of jobs in the coming years, designed to get us off of foreign oil, and to really have this Made in America clean energy, that it's not going to run out. The sun and the wind are here. We're also not going to be shipping it overseas. And so, this is really about a clean energy workforce in our country that is able to build this clean energy economy and this clean energy future. We know we need to help solve the climate crisis.
David 29:28
The Inflation Reduction Act obviously has massive investments. It's unprecedented US legislation, unprecedented globally in the scale of the investment. How do you connect that sort of esoteric idea of this piece of legislation with the point you just made about the importance of communicating the benefits to people and that addressing climate change is about building this new economy of the future, and hundreds of thousands and millions of jobs from a practical perspective? How do you craft those messages? And, do you have any thoughts about what resonates with people?
Lori Lodes 30:06
[gentle music] Absolutely. So, I mean, the anniversary of the Inflation Reduction Act is just happening, right? And I honestly believe that it is one of the most successful laws in our nation's history, and that's after one year—365 days—because of what it's done, to make sure that our economy is booming, to drive down our energy cost, and to reduce harmful pollution. It is doing exactly what the law was intended to do, which is to really deliver for the American people and to create the sort of new economy that is driven by clean energy, ramping up the production of it, but also ensuring that investments are getting made and local communities. [music fades out] And I think, one, it's really talking about what is happening right now. The reality is most people don't know anything about this acronym, the IRA, or the Inflation Reduction Act. When they find out the facts about it, when they actually learn about what is in the law, they overwhelmingly support it. The problem is, they haven't seen it. They don't know what's happening, right? And the reality is, this Made in America clean energy boom that we are seeing is happening right now, and it's happening all across the country.
So, the big thing that we need mayors to do and folks to talk about is to talk about what's happening locally. When you have a company like Qcells, who goes into Dalton, Georgia, investing billions of dollars in a new factory and hiring a couple of thousand new people, that is not just bringing in jobs to this company; it has that ripple effect throughout the entire community. There's a city planner up in Ohio who has this great quote about, like, why he is so passionate about clean energy, and he's a Republican so, you know, historically, Republicans have been against taking this type of climate action. You know, he talks about how our schools are flourishing, our roads have never been better, this is what investing in clean energy is like. And I'm from Oklahoma; that is oil and gas land, but Governor Stitt, Oklahoma's Republican Governor, is very clear that nothing could be better for the state than these clean energy investments, and that is coming from an oil and gas state who, primarily, you know, the state's economy has really been built on oil and gas, recognizing the importance of these clean energy investments.
David 32:45
Qcells is a battery company in Georgia?
Lori Lodes 32:48
One of the many battery companies that are coming back to the United States or being created in the United States.
David 32:54
So, your first piece of advice for mayors then sounds like it is something like, "Tell real stories, local stories of success."
Lori Lodes 33:03
Tell the story.
David 33:04
Any other points that mayors should think about when they are on the frontlines of this challenge?
Lori Lodes 33:09
Well, and I know that is not a message that every mayor is going to be able to have, right? A lot of folks might not have these investments yet. They will, but I think it's, more than anything, just making it real for people, talking about what is possible. How is that going to help people? It's going to bring cost down. It's going to bring their energy costs down. It's going to make the grid more reliable. And so, this idea that we can have cleaner, more affordable energy that's made here at home and is going to rebuild our middle class is a message that is universal. We did a poll recently that showed over two thirds of people see climate change as a kitchen table issue now, in over half of Republicans.
[gentle music] The thing that I would love – if this became not a cultural issue or a political issue, but one where we're just trying to figure out a path forward together, because this is a crisis and it's going to take everyone coming together to figure it out. And I think it also is what makes mayors one of the best spokespeople, because you do connect with your constituents at a different level and from a different sort of place than as politicians in Washington.
David 34:21
Yes, those politicians. [Lori laughs] Well, in this case, they had quite an achievement under the leadership of President Biden and with the support of organizations like Climate Power. Can you speak a bit, in the last couple of minutes we have, what's next for Climate Power, and what should people keep their eye on over the next two months?
Lori Lodes 34:40
I mean, what we are really focused on doing is telling this story and finding ways to get it out there even more, so really showing not just how people can take advantage of the law, because I should say there's a lot of benefits, right? It is there when you need it, and so I do think what we're wanting to do is to really show people how it can affect their lives and how it can help their communities. And also, there is a lot of misinformation out there. We need mayors to get the facts out, and that is not, again, in any sort of political sense. It's just telling folks the story or the facts about what is happening, whether it is about, you know, these new jobs coming in because of the Eevee manufacturing facility in Michigan, or if it's the new solar facility in Arizona that's going to allow Arizona to create more power. There are so many stories and it's really localizing it to your community, and so we're trying to help people like mayors and others really figure out how best to tell that story.
But, I think one of the things that mayors can do, more than anything, is they have a platform, and they have a voice, and so whether it's talking to reporters, or putting out a press release, or doing social media, or hosting a ribbon-cutting or a roundtable, there's a lot of ways that mayors can really help get that story out to people to inform community members about what's possible.
David 36:13
You know, that gives me a bit of hope that we're seeing stories in places where people might have been inclined to oppose climate action, and maybe helping them see what the possibilities are. As you pointed out earlier in the conversation, we're seeing climate change now. It's not a thing for the future. We're seeing huge impacts all over the world – droughts at the same time as floods. We need to act rapidly. In that context, sometimes it's hard to have hope. You know, a communications specialist, the leader of Climate Power, and somebody who's worked inside and outside the US political system for two decades, what gives you hope on climate today?
Lori Lodes 36:50
We did something huge. President Biden and Democrats in Congress, they took historic action that is still beyond my belief, despite working on it every morning, noon and night for the last couple of years. It was not possible. No one thought it was possible. And, you know, it took a lot of hard work and commitment and dedication, and it happened, and I think it's a proof of concept that we can take big action. Our government can do big things. At the end of the day, though, I think that we are making progress, and we'll keep on making progress, and that gives me hope that we really are getting there and we're going to be taking this as seriously as we need to.
David 37:38
Well, that's a great note to end it on, particularly acknowledging the role of the next generation and the generation behind them who probably are some of the most effective climate advocates we've ever seen. [gentle music] So Lori, thank you so much for that, and more importantly for your ongoing work at Climate Power, helping to change the political conversation in the United States and allowing it to reassert its global leadership role, which is so important. So, thank you very much for being with us on Cities. 1.5.
Lori Lodes 38:06
Thank you, David. [music continues then fades out]
David 38:13
[rhythmic, electronic music] Alysa, Ecrin, and Zeynep attend middle school in Toronto, Canada. Their grade 6 class wrote, composed, performed, and directed an original song and music video about climate action. It was released as part of a social awareness campaign on climate change with a pressing message for world leaders, encouraging them to do something about it. They joined me remotely for a discussion on May 24th, 2023. [music fades out]
Alysa 38:47
Hi.
David 38:47
Hi. That was the voice of Alysa, a middle school student. So, Alysa, can you tell us a little bit about yourself?
Alysa 38:57
So, my name is Alysa and I'm 11 years old, almost. I'm going to be 12. [light string music] I care about climate change because it is our future. I care about our animals and the environment. Animals could go extinct or endangered because of us. Plants die each year because of us, because the air is really polluted, and we make most of our things from plants. We make medicine from it, and we make foods out of it, and we eat them after.
David 39:26
That's a very good point about the importance of our natural environment for humans. [music fades out] Can you speak a bit more about why young people like you should speak up about climate change?
Alysa 39:40
It is important because we are speaking up for our future. It can be really hard for us to live if we don't bring this issue up today. Climate change can pollute the air really badly.
David 39:53
How can city governments better work with young people on climate change?
Alysa 39:58
So, some buses pollute the air a lot, and there are some buses that are hybrid, which is really good for life, for our Earth.
David 40:07
That's great, Alysa. And you'll see soon, in Toronto, electric buses too.
Alysa 40:12
Yeah.
David 40:13
But there aren't many of them in Toronto yet. Did you know that in Shenzhen, China, they have 16,000 electric buses?
Alysa. 40:21
Ooh. That is really good.
David 40:25
Hi, who are you?
Ecrin 40:26
My name is Ecrin. I am 12 years old, in sixth grade, and I'm very excited and pleased to be here with you guys today. I care about climate change because this is our future, and I feel like, if we don't take a stand right now, who knows what's going to happen in the future. We might not even be in this world or even standing here anymore, and I feel like it's important because we have to, like, take over this before it gets into, like, other people's hands. I feel like people should stop doing this because it is ruining animals' lives, plants', people's lives. [music fades out] It is ruining this world for everybody right now.
David 41:01
You're speaking out very passionately about your city, your health, about nature. Do you have any young people and youth leaders that you look up to that inspire you?
Ecrin 41:14
We watch Greta's interviews and everything like that. She's taking a really big stand in this world and she's changing most people's lives. That's like a really passionate thing to do. Trying to change the world is such, like, a big step.
David 41:29
So, Greta has inspired you. Do you have any thoughts about how city governments can better work with young people like you?
Ecrin 41:36
I think we should put this through media because young and youth people might see it and maybe get inspired, and we would love to share our work, projects, and successes all over the world with people our age so we can give them a head start, too.
David 41:48
That is a very powerful statement. I feel like the whole world should take a stand. Thank you, Ecrin.
Zeynep 42:00
My name is Zeynep. I am 11 years old. I care about climate change because climate change is really important, and it stuck to me ever since I've learned about it, especially when I learned about the problem it's caused, and will cause. Climate change isn't just about heat. It's also about the ecosystem and the problems such as rising sea levels and shifting flowers' blooming times.
David 42:24
People don't talk about the shifting blooming times very much, but it's a really big issue for the health of this planet and for people, because if the times change in sync a little bit of when crops pollinate, for example, it really affects whether we'll have enough to eat, let alone the impact on nature, so I'm very impressed you picked that one up. [music fades out] Is there anything you'd like to tell your city government about what they should do to address climate change?
Zeynep 42:53
What I would say to the government is that they need to take more action and awareness to this topic, and that they need to do something about the access amounts of exports for food and our other supplies and resources, because they have 50 million tons of food waste every year. That's enough to feed a small country.
David 43:15
Wow. That is a huge amount of food waste – 50 million tons, and you're quite right that it would feed a lot of people. Thank you for your action and leadership. So, Alysa, you had the first word. Is there anything else you'd like to say?
Alysa 43:29
I want to talk about what we did for this project. We made a music video about climate change, and it was really fun to make. And, while making this video, we actually planted a lot of trees to show the people that we actually care about climate change. Every single one of us planted more than two, three trees, and the clothes that we made in the music video are from trash and from plastics, whatever that pollutes our environments.
David 44:02
So, you're removing waste and making the city greener at the same time. Can you talk about how that video helped you to be interested in helping the world address climate change?
Ecrin 44:15
First, we could talk about how it came to be. When the school year started, we were trying to figure out a topic for us to do, like world issues, and we came to the conclusion to do climate change.
Zeynep 44:32
We wanted to put it somehow on, like, social media or somewhere where a lot of people could see it and watch it and everything, so we chose to, like, put it as a music video on YouTube. [pensive music] We are really happy with the response we got. Thank you to our amazing teacher. She really inspired us to do this project and we are really happy with the results we came out with...
Alysa 44:56
.. and we are really happy to be here right now, and letting the world know that we care about climate change.
David 45:03
Alysa, we couldn't have put it better. Thank you so much for caring about climate change. Thank you for the effort you made to be on Cities 1.5 today, and thanks to all three of you for the effort you made to put in and create the terrific music video.
Alysa 45:20
And thank you for bringing us here to your podcast. [music continues then fades out]
David 45:24
[upbeat, energetic music] We need to shift the narrative around climate communication so that the people who live in any given city can understand and feel involved in the climate actions that policymakers are undertaking. The most effective climate action needs to happen both in government rooms and on the city streets. Climate change affects us all, and we all need to be aware of what is required of our city leaders and national governments. The youth of today seem to understand this better than the rest of us, so we need to make room for them in the climate conversation and to ensure that the communication strategies for cities around climate go both ways, so mayors can do an excellent job in the way that they lead and in the way that they listen. [music continues then fades out]
[Cities 1.5 main theme music] On the next episode of Cities 1.5, we're revisiting an important topic from season one – ecological economics for urban policymakers. With the help of preeminent ecological economist, Tim Jackson, we'll unpack the theory of ecological economics and give guidance on how cities can take practical steps to shift into prioritizing the health and welfare of their inhabitants, because our economic policies must start with the needs of people. As Tim says in the interview, "Without health, there is no wealth."
[Cities 1.5 main theme music continues] Thanks for listening to Cities 1.5. I'm David Miller, the Managing Director of the C40 Centre for City Climate Policy and Economy. I was the Mayor of Toronto, Canada, and know, first-hand, the impact cities can have in solving the climate crisis.
Cities 1.5 is produced by Jessica Schmidt. Our executive producers are Isabel Sitcov, Peggy Whitfield, Jessica Abraham, and Claudia Rupnik. Our music is by Lorna Gilfedder. Cities 1.5 is a production of the University of Toronto Press and the Journal of City Climate Policy and Economy. To find out more, visit the show’s website link in the episode notes. [Cities 1.5 main theme music continues then ends]
And now, here's the original song written and performed by Alysa, Ecrin, and Zeynep and their fellow classmates from the grade 6 class.
[No Future No Children by OK Youth! plays]
[bird cries] [fire crackles] [upbeat, electronic music] [individual students sing] 10 years ago, I was born into a world with a timer. The trees were burning, the ground was shaking, the air was choking, but nobody cared. They left their kids a home of plastic. I'm old enough now. I can't believe it. I'm disappointed, and the mob said, our churches speak now. You listen carefully.
[all students sing] Is the microphone on? Can you hear me now? Can they understand what we're talking about?
[students rap] Stop burning fossil fuels, restore nature, trees, stop producing plastic, treat crisis like a crisis, put a price on pollution, protect ocean life, keep firms liable, treat crisis like a crisis.
[individual students sing] We're at a crossroads. The earth is warming up. It's getting hotter. We're at 1.1. My future is burning up. I hear about economy. I hear about politics. I don't even know what they are, but I'm sick of it. Simplify the story. Take responsibility. See how Greta did at 15. That's accountability. Treat crisis like a crisis. There are consequences. See the school strike on the news? We're very serious.
[students rap] Stop burning fossil fuels, restore nature, trees, stop producing plastic, treat crisis like a crisis, put a price on pollution, protect ocean life, keep firms liable, treat crisis like a crisis.
[all students sing] Future, no children. No, no future, no children. No, no. No future, no children. No, no. No future, no children. No, no.
[student whispers] Future.