These are fun. Off the cuff discussions on movies and streaming series, both new and old together will attempt to bridge the gap between Hollywood industry insider and the casual viewer. This is Alec and I’m Ben and you're listening to the Cinema: A to B podcast. Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Cinema: A to B. So right now I want to talk about 2022’s Steven Spielberg, effectively a biopic, The Fabelmans. Interesting picture. Yeah, it definitely didn't deserve best picture.
I can understand why it was nominated. (Ben)I can't understand why it was nominated. I mean, I understand because it's he's in his latter, you know, latter stages of life. It's, you know, it's about him. He's telling his story. The Academy loves him. Now, I will say highly flawed movie in a lot of ways. But I also walked away from it at the end of it going, this is why Spielberg is Spielberg, because I was still enjoy the movie. I still watched all the way through.
It never was like checking my watch going, This is too long, you know, This is terrible. It's just, you know, he's still a solid director after all this time. But it's “meh” out of his stuff. It's “meh” out of even 2020 stuff. It's yeah, yeah. I think it's utterly ridiculous that this got a best picture nomination. Yeah. I mean, but it is it's a credit to who he is in his, his back his amazing back catalog of work.
The reason I say it's ridiculous is because this is vastly inferior movie to even something like Catch Me If You Can, which was never a best picture nominee. Did it deserve some other categories? Yeah. Yeah. And we'll get we'll get to that. I think there's some other there's you know, some of the acting nominations I think were probably justified but not best picture. This is this is in no way a best picture. But it's just not it's not it's not a bad film. But this is typical Hollywood.
This is typical academy of. You know, they realize that. Oh, we probably should have given this guy an Oscar a long time ago. So let's just latch on to whatever, like new. I mean, Guillermo del Toro, like Shape of Water definitely should not have won Best Picture, like at all. Like, I know some people love that movie. I thought it was like it was beautiful, but it was definitely not a best picture of that year.
Oh, Leo, not Leo DiCaprio should not have won for The Revenant, like for the acting style, because really pain and anger is all the two emotions that he felt that that in that movie. And they're basically the same way to act it And I'm like and a quick aside, so what would you have given Leo a best actor Academy Award for? Because I've got a film in mind I think that he probably years prior, so. Shutter Island. Okay. Yeah, that's good. Shutter Island is really good.
I mean, catch me if you can is really good. I would have picked The Aviator. Oh, yeah? Yeah, I can see that with Aviator, like. Of the stuff I've seen, I think. I think. Yeah, but Shutter Island right there. Yeah. So you're right. The academy does have a habit. Yeah, the Academy has a habit of doing this of of kind of doing makeup. But no, I mean, Spielberg's a two time best director winner with. With Schindler's List and seeing Red Ryan.
So it's not like the Academy's not acknowledged how good he is. It's kind of a golden boy of of film. Right. You know, for years. Yeah. I mean, he's yeah, he's he's a founding father of the when they transition from away from the studio system to more independent auteur style directors he's he's a founding father along with Scorsese he to a lesser extent George Lucas was in that group as well. But it's only a handful of guys.
William Friedkin was in that group, too, that when they when the studio system started to crumble and especially in the seventies and and then these these guys start showing up making incredible stuff. So yeah he's got his track record. I know he's I'm sure he's friends with like three quarters of the academy. And so they saw this and like, okay, this is a personal project. No, it's a good it's a good film. It's a good film.
I, I did look at my watch a couple of times in in the in the early parts, but it got better as it went. And I really I really enjoyed the the final act. Mm. Because it finally got funny. Yeah. It was like a super unfunny movie for like the first two thirds. Like it was. It was what I was, you know, I was, I was almost going to text you. Oh, this is the feel good movie of 2022, because it's just. It's. Yeah, it's, it's depressing. I mean, rough.
So my big takeaway was I didn't, I didn't realize the extent that that Spielberg like needs cinema like he he's not just good at it there is something innate in him that that needs this right and that was my big takeaway that I thought was really powerful. You know, you always knew he's great. I think he showed his greatness from from an early age. Mm hmm. And I and I was already familiar with, like, the World War two, you know, short film that he'd done.
I didn't know some of the other things, but that I was familiar with. And I knew it was it was goofy and stuff that it had. He had those early markers of this this guy is going to be good. Yeah. And so I knew that. But I didn't really know how much that he just emotionally, like, almost spiritually needs to be a filmmaker. Yeah. And like, I wish I was wired like that because, you know, I went to film school and enjoyed it and stuff and, you know, tried to try to make it on Hollywood.
And it it just sunk some things out of my control and then some things I kind of messed up. It didn't happen, but there wasn't. I stepped back and I'm like, I, I love the movies, but I don't know that I have this innate thing in me that, like, I would be miserable, not, you know, not doing that. Mm hmm. So I appreciated that. Well, it's I mean, he's done it already.
And a couple other of his films where he talks on it, but, like, it's the typical adage of, like, if you can do anything else, go and do that instead of trying to pursue this. And he definitely this shows kind of like what you said, like he couldn't do anything else. Like he literally this had to be the thing that he did. Otherwise he was not going to succeed. He was not going to be happy. He was not going to be able to deal with life and everything that it put out him that was able to him.
I mean, they, you know, talked about it early on with like the train thing that he was filming of, like how he was going to actually deal with scene this thing that kind of unnerved him and how how was he going to work through that? How was he going to actually come to terms with this thing? And it was shooting a movie and kind of starting that. So, yeah, and I love acting, but I can do it as a side project as I do.
So, you know, and yeah, and scratches that itch and you know, you are still kind of in the industry just not Yeah I mean, you know Yeah sure sure. I mean advertising and and I still get to work with video and shooting at it and stuff and so yeah that I still get to scratch that itch too but it's his was very defined like if, if this guy wasn't going to be telling stories, shooting movies or working in television like he was, he was going to be miserable. And then you saw it.
You saw what that looked like with his mother. Right. Like, so it's like almost he grew up looking, seeing what an artist that didn't really fulfill their dream, kind of what what that looked like. And he was like, oh, I don't I don't want that, You know. Now, as far as performances, you know, Paul Dano continues to do Paul Dano things, but he he was he was solid.
Michelle Williams is kind of the scene stealer, although I kind of found the one dimensional nature of her character a little bit long in the tooth. Like it kind of grated on me. Well, she didn't really change. She just kind of stay the same throughout the. Yeah, she has no arc. She's just her. Judd Hirsch steals the scene as Uncle Boris. I could have watched more of that. One of the best scenes in the whole movie is is him with Sam. Ian is in his room.
And then the actor that plays Sammy, this Gabriel LaBelle. Yeah. For one, he stinking looks like Spielberg. I mean, he really does. He looks he looks just like a young Spielberg. And then he he he turned in a pretty nuanced performance, like he wasn't completely one dimensional. But I will say, like, it's kind of an idea, like, look at Spielberg. Have you you want to be like, he does it. He's not a like, super flawed character.
It's like, Oh, I'm a nice guy and I'm funny and I'm really good making movies and like, there's not he's he's tortured, right? Because his home life is just kind of a mess. But I kind of wish the character is a little more flawed. I was like, Oh, it's here's here's all the good parts of me growing up. None of the bad, you know? Yeah, that's kind of that's kind of what it felt like. And the fall he had of coming from a broken, you know, a broken home. And, you know, it is kind of not his fault.
So all his flaws kind of came across as these are flaws, but they're they are my parents problems that they've pushed on to me or my family, issues that have been pushed up to me, not me at all. So, yeah, there's a little bit of that. There's a little bit, but but the characters, the characters super likable, like and I, I empathized with them. I thought I thought I thought the scene with that with his Christie girlfriend was one of the funniest things I saw.
Like in any movie the last few years, I've been hilarious, absolutely hilarious. And he was like, All right, I'll do whatever. Yeah, I'll go kind of like I'll say whatever to make sure. Sure, Yeah. Oh, no. An actor that I don't usually particularly care for, but I was actually pretty impressed was with Seth Rogen. Yeah. Like, and I kind of went into it with, like, really this guy because I'll be the first one to admit I'm just not a huge fan.
And that's, that's both sometimes his on screen and off screen antics, but he turns in like a really smart like he kind of he was very chameleon like in it. I, I it wasn't too many about ten or 15 minutes and I kind of forgot I was watching Seth Rogen. I was like, that's that's the mark of a good performance here. Well, he's able to like, rein in because, I mean, so many of the stuff that he's done and I don't have the disdain for him that you do.
I'm not a huge fan, but, you know, I like him a lot of stuff. But when he gets hired, a lot of times they're like looking for that Seth Rogen character, you know, It's like, that's what it is. But he's playing in and here obviously he has to not do that. He has to kind of play against his typical type, which is he does what he does really well. Again, like kind of what you're saying. I didn't see Seth Rogen really like after the first couple of minutes of just I just saw this character.
He really leaned out to like he's he's kind of just for him. He's really skinny. And so that kind of worked into it as well. Now, there's another guy that I think is a is a scene stealer in this. It's this Sam Renner that plays the Jock Logan Oh, yeah.
Dude was good in that scene with him in the hallway near the end of the film and I won't spoil that was is like one of my it's probably my favorite moment in the whole movie when he's when he's confronting Sammy about that that sense of Yeah yeah And it was it was poignant it it gave you like a nice look into Spielberg's ability to like manipulate in cinema which I'll go ahead and say this I, I think Spielberg's true gift he's he's got a tremendous eye for the camera and blocking and all that.
But I really think his his his gift as a director is his ability to manipulate the audience, do it subtly to like he's not over the top. Well, yeah, yes and no Like and even it's cool because even acknowledged like his his main his main vehicle for audience manipulation when he's when he's explaining his World War to like storyboards with his with that uncle Boris and he's like there's a close up on the hero and you see his face and you don't see what he's seen.
Yeah, he that's that's classic Spielberg. So Spielberg is the king of this, right? He shows you the protagonist first, the expression and then the end. He holds on it for a while and he. And he tells you how to feel. And I'm going to pick, like, not even like, a great Spielberg movie. To give an example. This it's a good movie, but it's not it's not one of his best. But the remake of All Worlds with Cruise when he's walking to is full of that.
It's full of close ups of Tom Cruise with this look of horror on his face before you see what he sees and you're in, he's horrified. And so the viewers like, okay, I'm preparing to be horrified. And then Spielberg delivers the payoff. Yeah. Or Chief Brody sitting on the beach in Jaws, and he's the look of horror as he does that on. Yeah, yeah, it does that vertigo effect with the camera And then you see the the shark barrel rolling where the kid was. Spielberg's a master at that.
Any aspiring filmmaker. Don't be afraid to copy it. Nobody's going to accuse you of plagiarism. Like show your protagonist first giving the expression that you want. Just hire a good actor and then show the audience what what it is they're saying. Mm hmm. And you're three quarters of the way there. And this is what makes Spielberg.
Spielberg is this stuff that he kind of maybe not invented, but definitely perfected and added in that now we see kind of like, you know, I talked about it was, you know, he doesn't over like doesn't hit you over the head with which supposed to feel but subtly. Well some of that yeah it's it's no longer subtle because we've seen it so many times but you know still the when it started when that that shot was yeah he's telling you how to feel but the audience really hadn't seen that before.
Really hadn't felt that you know of you know just focusing on the hero's face of what their response was to what's happening. So it was kind of like, you know, it has changed cinema. So this I mean, this one makes Spielberg. Spielberg is just yeah, and that's what I like. I sort of walk away from this movie. Guy's going, he's still got it. He still tells an amazing story. He still tells an interesting story in doesn't make Me Bored with his shot selection.
So yeah no. And there's this whole this movie is definitely one of those love letters to movie making because there's there's all these really intricate shots, close ups of the eight millimeter film being spliced together and like threaded through the the the upright editor and all those vintage cameras. Like it's it's totally a love letter to to true filmmaking, which is what this guy grew up doing. I mean, he still shoots film. He's one of the few.
Aren't you glad you don't have to edit that way, though? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Having to spy cut. Well, but even though you have to splicing cut because one of my first my first job in L.A. was as a post-production assistant. And that movie shot film and the assistant editors, even in the Avid software, had to keep counts on feet and frames because eventually they were going to have to go back to the narrative to master it. And I talked to the senior editor and he's like, I hate it.
He's like, He was yeah, he was like, I, he I said, Really? He's like, Oh yeah, I'd much prefer shoot digital. Like, it's just it's, it's ingested. We edit it, we uprise it with the master files. It's done. He's like, there's no, there's none of this bringing the film in at a lower resolution. The assistant editor has got to keep track of the feed frames and then it gets pumped back out to go back to the master negative for for the actual edit, because then it does have to be cut and spliced.
Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I think now they might just scan in in it. Max Red's Max resolution if they shoot something and then it doesn't go back to you know, it'll only go back to film for select theaters. Right. Most people are watching it digital but yeah. That the editor was not a fan at all. I don't blame Yeah, man, it's definitely a cinephiles movie. Yeah. You know, I mean, I think the average, average person would enjoy this.
I mean, if you like Spielberg movies, if you like kind of character stories and things of that sort, I mean, the you don't have to love film or love the behind the scenes stuff of it to enjoy this film. I would say. So it's definitely not best picture. No. You know, this this movie has nothing to do with him climbing the ladder in Hollywood. This is everything before him. Although you and I won't spoil it because it is it is the best scene in the whole movie at the very end is I loved it.
Oh, it's tremendous. It's tremendous. Yeah. Look at that painting that like that one. Oh, and who and who they got and who they got was. Yeah. It was just great. Yeah. I don't want to spoil it if anybody. We're going to try to go spoiler light on this for sure because I don't think enough people watch this and yeah if you've you know, if you appreciate Spielberg, which most of us do from Jaws on down, see it, you won't be disappointed.
Yeah, it's totally worth the watch to see kind of a take now he's it's it's filtered right? Like he's the one that's filtered it because based on what I read, he almost like there's a little bit of revisionist history in here because because what I had read was his anger originally was all directed towards his father. And then the empathy was towards mom. And the movie's kind of has that flip flopped. So it's a little bit revisionist in that way.
But yeah, it's an interesting look at Ed and his childhood and and what kind of molded him. And the thing is, though, you don't really get and I guess they couldn't convey it, but you don't really get a a close look at what kind of shape some of his sensibilities. It seems like a lot of that's kind of innate in him as far as the editing and blocking and all that. I mean, I think he he's got these directors that he grew up
with that shaped how he kind of shoots. But yeah, he, I guess he couldn't go as much into that into detail and like how his sensibilities kind of form. He just kind of had it from the start. It seemed like, well, I mean, he learned it as he went, but there is definitely some type of innate talent that he had of how to tell a story or how to show a story, those kind of things.
I mean, my my mind was blown when he figured out how to, like, pull off convincing looking gunshots in know Western Shorty did. Yeah. I was just. Wow. Yep. Wow. What a gift. Yeah. Super gifted. Well, I think that I've said everything I have to say about it, so. Yeah, we've we've I think we've spoken to this film. I will say if Top Gun Maverick is in the for best picture, I'm okay with Ableman being nominated for best picture.
This is Alex with another opportunity to in on Matt again I don't I didn't hate it I enjoyed it but best picture what what you they're all right Yeah so I think there's very different reasons for some of these. Yes I mean yes yeah yeah. So and obviously this is a post-oscars episode of you know. Yeah. So we know what you want to do and, and we were mostly right on our predictions as well. Oh my goodness. Were Yeah. All right, everybody. Take care.