These are fun. Off the cuff discussions on movies and streaming series, both new and old together will attempt to bridge the gap between Hollywood industry insider and the casual viewer. This is Alec nine, Ben and you're listening to the Cinema, a TV podcast. Hey, everybody. Welcome to Cinema eight to be a movie talking podcast with myself, Alec and with Ben. And today we're doing some very fun.
We both just recently watched Oppenheimer, the 2023 Christopher Nolan film, and we couldn't wait to talk about it. So instead of a weekend, we decided to meet on a weekday and discuss this movie because, well, we were texting back and forth constantly and trying to talk about it, but not talk about it. So I'm just going to shut up and Ben. Let's get into it, buddy. Let's do this. Let's get into it. So first, how did I see it? I saw it in IMAX, but it wasn't the film. It was 4K.
A single laser projection. Brutal. And I see that in the best possible way. I don't know where this ranks in in his filmography. It feels. It feels complete. It feels realized. We are going to attempt to play spoiler free on this today if possible, just because it is very new. Okay, so this can never be my favorite Nolan film, but I think that has to be stated because of the subject matter and the best way I can. I've been thinking about this for what I saw on Saturday.
Today's Wednesday. So several, several days. And I knew it was a great film because every day that I woke up following seeing it, I was continuing to think about it. And so I knew right then and there that it was great. I think people might be expecting Saving Private Ryan from Oppenheimer, and the film is more Schindler's List. It would be the best analogy that I could give without spoiling the movie. And so it's it's tremendous. It's great. But it it's it's hitting a different tone entirely.
Definitely much more of a character study as opposed to a action or the focus is much more on obviously, Oppenheimer than anything he did. Yeah. So yeah, I can I can argue with that. You'll see some people kind of complaining.
I think it's a vocal minority that were expecting a film centered around the Trinity test and the source material would have indicated long ago with American Prometheus, the book, that that's just not what this is, that the movie is about the man, not the not the Manhattan Project. The Manhattan Project's featured heavily because that's what he's known for. But this is a this is a fall. This is Nolan's first true character study.
The closest he's come before would be Memento and then Elements of the Prestige. So it's exactly what I kind of predicted, which is this This would be heavy, heavy character study. And that's what we got. But it's it's devastatingly tremendous. That's kind of a it's kind of the word of the day for me with this movie is is that it's that it is ultimately pretty devastating to watch. But that doesn't it doesn't mean it's not good.
So I saw Sunday also saw an IMAX, but the IMAX I saw it was the dual xenon two game projectors. So non laser but still was fantastic. The sound was overwhelming. Like there are points where Laura was putting her hands over her ears because it was so loud and I loved that the sound itself. I was talking with my buddy who saw with us and he was saying almost like the sound was its own character. And a lot of a lot of not just the music, like the actual just sound of this movie.
Obviously, the Trinity Test was definitely where it kind of culminated by like throughout the entire movie. A lot of that sound design. Whoever did the sound design was absolutely a great job.
I will say, while I love the IMAX performance of it, I didn't get the same feeling I did when watching The Dark Knight have just that gasp of when it would go full IMAX picture as opposed to the I mean, there were moments where was good, but it definitely I mean, I remember vividly when it switched to that huge shot of them blowing out the window in The Dark Knight and then, you know, rolling across basically. And I was just like, overwhelmed.
Or when the Joker's driving through downtown Gotham in the cop car and just it's that big widescreen like. Like those are visceral moments that will stay with me for the rest of my life and which is, again, one of the reasons why The Dark Knight is my favorite Nolan film. This didn't hit those points. It didn't have I don't know how to describe it. It was it was so good. Like I could definitely tell when the screen went big when when not.
And there's been a couple of times I have watched IMAX films that did that where I couldn't tell you which scenes were actually IMAX scenes and which scenes were regular. Like, you know, letterboxd I could do that with this movie, but it didn't have the over towering sense or feel that The Dark Knight had. So not again, This is not really a discredit to to Oppenheimer, but if you're not able to see this in IMAX, then I would say it's not as big of a loss as say something like the dark is true.
And I agree. But I also think that you are you're seeing the disparity between 70 millimeter IMAX film and a duel to KZN on projection. I think I think there were moments that would have hit differently had you been able to see it in its original film format. But it's but you're right, the style of movie doesn't lend itself as much to to that. But I can't I can't truly say that because I didn't see it in 70 millimeters. Film IMAX either. I would have had to drive to to Dallas to do it.
And believe me, I was tempted. But after having seen it, a very good 4K laser IMAX presentation here. Yeah, I know Nolan wanted to hype up the importance of seeing it in kind of the master format, but of his recent movies, this is the I would say this is the one least necessary to see in IMAX. It doesn't it's a lot of close ups. It's a lot of very close ups of faces. There are some some really beautiful vistas and other material that that would work well in the large format.
But I think now the the sound I could make a good argument to try to see it in IMAX because I agree with you the sound design. This feels like the most fully realized sound design in a Nolan film. I think I've seen there's some things occurring here that are that largely would have been relegated to more experimental films, stuff I saw in film school of like the they weren't mainstream movies on how to use sound to to manipulate the viewer basically.
And he he uses those here to great effect there's several moments the two in particular that I won't give away that the sound design is just as important as the visual and. Mm hmm. Yeah. So I it's it's, it's masterfully done from the sound mix. I also want to give a lot of credit to the edit because this is a three hour movie that didn't feel like 3 hours to me. I felt like I was in the theater for about 2 hours when the credits came up.
The scene moves at a breakneck speed and it can be a lot to keep up with because characters talk a lot. It's it's a very talky Nolan movie, and I could see where some people might have a kind of I have a hard time keeping up. So yeah, if you can't if you can't get into an IMAX, frankly, I think a Dolby Cinema would be just as good just because the speaker placements so good. It wasn't mixed for that atmos stuff. But the speaker placement in AMC's Dolby Cinemas is really, really good.
You've got subwoofers underneath you and in fact, I'm going to try to go see it again and that's the format I'm going to go see it in a second time is going to be in a Dolby just just for something different. Yeah, I'm planning on seeing it again, but I'm going to go to the air and Space Museum, which has the dual 4K laser projectors, the IMAX, because you're going to get the full format, then you're going to get the one for three close to the 70.
Mm. Yeah. Going on what you said, I mean I will say even if you can't see it in IMAX or even Dolby Cinema, go see this in the theater, this is one of those movies where you're going to watch.
I mean, even though it's a lot of close ups, a lot of people talking, there's something about it, I think, seen on the big screen that you're going to get something, something that emotional sense that you're not going to get on your 65 inch TV, you know, or whatever size TV that you have, The sound is going to be so much better, even without having IMAX or Dolby Cinema, you're still going to get this much.
And that is so poignant and part of this movie that this is why you go to the theater to see certain movies. I agree with you with the theatrical and that I wouldn't get hung up on on exactly where that is. Just make sure your your local theater, whatever that is, that the that the theater cares about the sound quality because this, this feels more reliant on sound than it does. Even the image and the image is fantastic. It really is. Yeah. Yeah. But the sound is extremely important.
The music scores is unlike anything I think I've ever heard. It's very different. Yeah, it very different. And there's a couple of tracks that that I just love. There's an in the first third is a montage and the, the title track is can you hear the music? And it runs about 2 minutes and my only complaint is that it's only 2 minutes because the montage that runs the finale, we'll see what the footage is. But the montage that runs over that track is probably my favorite moment in the whole movie.
Interesting. Okay. Yeah, it just felt well, I just I think it was because it was early on and that was kind of the first moment where, you know, I'm just big on when the the dialog goes away and the scores rise and I get hit with beautiful imagery. I'm a sucker for that. So I like Terrence Malick because that's what Malick does. He just likes imagery playing music and stuff. Yeah. And so and this frankly, this movie in some ways feels like a Terrence Malick film in a lot of ways.
It really does. I, I think it's the closest. And knowing The Doors Terrence Malick film like he does. No, he okay. Yeah. He don't know it. He does. He does. No, I. I don't love Terrence Malick. No, I nearly as much as I know, like Thin Red Line. Absolutely love the rest of his stuff. I've got to, like, hit or miss. But I will say like, yes, the shot selection. The DP did a fantastic job, especially of some of the Trinity stuff. Like everything is just put together so well.
I don't want to call this a masterpiece. I think it needs to marinate like I need to see it and set it. It needs summary, but I'm going to tell you like I asked when the credits started rolling, I was just blown away and I use that pun intended. But the I just sat there and was just like, what did I just watch?
I am exhausted because I tell you one thing, I don't know how he did it, but there are it's all just basically a climactic build through like multiple climactic bells throughout the movie. Like it's just like tense scene after ten scene. And then you'll have a short little scene where it's like, okay, I can take a breath. And then immediately, like, I just felt like we were building all the time and then we'd hit a point and we'd have a quick moment of calm, and then we just build again.
And it was like, like all I can just remember this just tense of everything happening so fast and just this like the music coming in and the sound design, the acting, the cuts. Like it just felt this constant like up quick down, but back up and then quick down, then back up. And just I was exhausted. I mean, but it was like a good exhausted like what did I just watch? This was cities It's this is a taxing film emotionally, psychologically it is.
It is it is his most taxing film in his filmography. And that's that's probably why I liken it to to Schindler's List. I, I would never make the argument that it's as dark as Schindler's List, but it's it's exhausting in the same way that that Schindler's List is. It is it forces you into an uncomfortable position and that's probably why I can't. There's no way I can say this is going to be my favorite Nolan film.
But that doesn't mean that in a couple of weeks or months that I end up kind of reluctantly maybe saying that it's his best film. And, you know, I certainly on the awards circuit come next, you know, Marcha February and for the Academy Awards, the Oscar committee is going to award this as his I don't know if he's going to win best picture still, but I. I think he's got all but best director locked in the bag with this. Yes, I absolutely agree.
I think also Gillian Murphy, I think gets best actor. I said I walked away going, this is the picture to beat like nothing that I like. There's a lot of good stuff coming out, but everything that I know that's coming out, I'm like, How are you going to contend with this? Because I think you talked about it when we talked about Christopher Nolan was that this is his biopic film. This one is going to get past all the craziness of the Academy Award, people going, well, it's a sci fi film.
We're not going to really award it like this is a biopic. It's going to allow them to vote for it and finally give him his best picture, best director. The Academy loves true stories. Yep, they're hooked. They're hooked on it, and it's done so well. Yeah. And and this, you know, this is closer. This is not Inception. This is not Interstellar. This is closer to Capote or Lincoln in Nature. Yeah, You know, this is. This is.
This is about the man, but it's it's got so much more going on visually than Capote or Lincoln. Like, it's so much more. And those are great films, but this is so much more an engaging picture for the for the viewer than those other two movies because Nolan brings that that epic nature that he's so good at. And it's not just shooting on IMAX. I mean, he was he was able to bring this epic ness and there was no IMAX in Inception.
You know, it's not just the film format he's capable of, of making things just feel really, really big and monumental as I see also the different DP for Inception as well than he did for for this. So yeah but Hoyt and his new guy, he was great. He knows exactly how to shoot IMAX. Now. I actually read an article today that the only shot they shot most of the movie on two lenses, 50 millimeter and 80 millimeter.
And they were specially sized Panavision lenses, really fast lenses that are capable of shooting in really low light. And then they built this this thing called a snorkel lens of snorkel macro, which effectively allows you to shoot really small stuff for first time atomic kind of stylized things. And so they really there's basically three lenses, which is kind of unheard of. But Hoyt has this is not his first rodeo of shooting IMAX.
And they basically realized for IMAX for that format shooting, you're most of your stuff is 50 millimeter and then you're your close ups of the actors in 80 millimeter. That's that's where the sweet spot is for this format. I was kind of intrigued by some of the lighting because a lot of it felt like a Spielberg film because the windows were all usually like usually you couldn't see out a window. It was like blown out. And I was like, that's that's an interesting choice.
So and there's a lot of Nolan films don't I don't remember that, you know, having that look. And that's kind of Spielberg in his cinematic for who whose name escapes me at the moment but oh Janusz Kaminski. He's known for blowing out windows just going. They just go white and that this movie felt like that. So I wonder if he I wonder if he screened Saving Private Ryan again and Schindler's List, because both those movies do that.
And then Schindler's List is all black and white. So I have to I feel like those films like, had an influence on the way this movie looks because it's it's set in the forties. He's got those black and white scenes that are those are nice by the way. They were I read an article.
I love the fact that when he wrote the script like this, but like all the things that were in color, the script was in first person because it was from Oppenheimer's subjective view, all the scenes that are in black and white are were written in third person because they were an objective view of Oppenheimer. And so I really liked what he did. Also, again, with his love of playing with time or playing with chronology, that really worked out, it really helped.
I also have to say, if you haven't watched this, there's a couple of good podcasts or do a quick read of Just Oppenheimer's Life and get at the basics of it, because this movie does move fast. You don't have to. Both Laura and my buddy Colin, who watch it, didn't really do that and they were able to follow it. But I did listen to a two part podcast on Oppenheimer this was about, I don't know, 90 minutes talked about kind of his life and my goodness, I was able to keep up really fast.
I didn't have any any points that I needed to know. And like it was it was fun to kind of know a little bit more in depth going into it and not having to kind of try to grasp some of those characters or like, who is this in relation to or where it's at and really just be immersed in the film and being immersed in what was being presented to me.
Yeah, the challenge is kind of keeping up with the, the names of all of the other scientists that kind of in turn exit and move around throughout the movie. That's kind of where it gets a little bit challenging because they constantly get referred to different points. And so that yeah, that was a little bit of a challenge. You know, I wanted to get back to performance because you you mentioned Killian and we both feel like he's probably a lock for best actor.
I got to think now that Robert Downey Jr is a shoo in now for Best Supporting, I have a hard time thinking not thinking that he's got it pretty close to locked up with this performance. Honestly, I would say that he gets the nom. I think Damon also possibly gets a nom for best supporting, but I think out of the two Downey would would win over Damon because I think his performance is a little bit more varied. I mean I love Damon and but and Damon was absolutely freaking fantastic for it.
And I love the fact that he was not getting out of acting, but taking a long acting break. And he had made an agreement with his wife that I'm not going to do any more project acting projects for a while unless it was Nolan. And then Nolan calls him and he's like, Well, going to do this project because it's Nolan.
Yeah, you got to you got you got to I mean, like, you know, I know also, like, I was really surprised to see Josh Hartnett in it because and I, you know, didn't know anything really about his previous stuff, but apparently he was up for Batman begins to possibly play Batman or to be involved in some way. It was they had initial they had an initial discussion. And what happened was Hartnett was more interested in the prestige. Mm hmm.
Because both scripts were floating around. And this is just the way Nolan works. If you if you spurn him on one, you don't get to do the other. Yeah. So like, and Harden's even talked about it like I messed up. Yeah. Because he's like, not only did I not get to go on prestige, like in any capacity. Nolan like, I don't know if this is just circumstantial or if Nolan like was sticking the knife, but Nolan cast his girlfriend at the time, which was Scarlett Johansson.
So like, hard it's like not only do I not get to get any that sounds like, you know, my girlfriend gets to be in the Prestige and that's it. That's Nolan's got a little bit of a it's a little bit of a streak there of like, Oh, really? You don't want to be you don't want to be in this. Well, no, you're not going to you know, you don't want to be. You began so you didn't get past an initial discussion. You didn't screen test for it or anything.
And I enjoyed seeing. HARTNETT Yeah. You know, he his story's interesting and I've always I've always liked him. You know, they wanted to make him the A-list guy after Black Hawk Down. And he just he just didn't want that lifestyle. He didn't want that. He didn't want the microscope, the magnifying glass on him of celebrity. And so he just opted to take off roles intentionally. It wasn't, you know, and and the problem was that town.
When you do that, they think that you don't like them or that you're better than that or something. And that's that's really not what he intended. So it was cool to see him kind of come full circle and get an opportunity. And I thought he was really liking the role. Yeah, in fact, it was funny. I was watching him going, Man, I actually probably could picture him as Bruce Wayne. Mm hmm. Because he's big. He's. He's six. Five. Like, he's actually bigger than Batman supposed to be.
But yeah, it was good to see him on screen again. And. And who knows, maybe. Maybe he's earned himself back in his good graces. And Nolan and he. I don't know. I can't see him being in the lead in a Nolan film. But then again, I never would have predicted that Killian Murphy would be the lead in a No. One film either. So maybe the right project just has to hey, at this point, just, you know, be available for Nolan. When Nolan calls you up, say yes, and then over time, he'll put you as the lead.
I mean, what was his, like six or seven movies, right? Well, yeah, I think this is Killian's fifth or sixth. I think it's his sixth movie. So he's what, second to Caine for the amount of movies that that he's been in with Nolan. I think this is number six. Yeah. And I think Michael Caine has eight that he's that he's been in. So yeah, I was very surprised that that Michael Caine didn't show up in some form or fashion because I don't see what Michael Caine's health situation is.
Right. That's true. Because I know because like, obviously he wasn't technically in Dunkirk as but his voice was. And so he got a yes. So he was like, so it's like he's still involved. Like maybe he's this fire radio control operator, Right? Yeah. And so it's like, so he's still involved somehow in that. So it's got to be a health thing at this point. But so, I mean, I was happy to see Damon in it.
I love I'm not to give away that can't we won't give away that one cameo which was great to see that one. I think I know you're talking about that one cameo. It was the one that, like, threw me out the most. I would like really Like, I mean, like, okay, but really, like. Yeah, whatever. Like it. This definitely is a good group of actors who are just doing a fantastic job. Like a lot of them are at their peak. I think like I like Emily Blunt does a fantastic job in her role.
She's just such a strong female actor. Like she just always you can't, you know, she's capable of playing a more vulnerable character. I mean, she's a great actress, but this this role demanded, you know, a stronger, stronger persona and and not in strong in like like I am woman hear me roar kind of nomination but very much like the reserved but like a broken very broken and flawed resilient yeah, but resilient resilience. Ah yeah.
But she had to deal with her issues like this cast just brought it like it's I am just Yeah. So I lost. I love hearing Matt Damon and even even Killian talking about how intimidating Jason acting opposite Jason Clarke was. It's the best thing ever. Like they, they're like, we know we're acting, it's just a movie, but just the intimidation factor with him, he's like, he's fantastic.
I mean, I really liked him because I think the main one that I saw him in that I kind of picked up was when he did Zero Dark 30 and really liked him in Zero Dark 30. And I've since him in other things. I just think he's great. Like, I don't know if he'll be able to because he is definitely getting a little bit older whether he's going to get into that leading role, you know, actor for like major, like major movies.
But I think he could definitely handle it like his when he was in that scene, when they're talking the group scene or whatever, like obviously that that's his goal but my eyes are on him like he's just still on that scene. He's always commanded the camera. Yeah. I've been a huge fan of Clarke's since he did a TV show called Brotherhood Opposite Jason. Jason Isaacs. Oh, he plays the he's a it's a great show. It only ran for like two or three seasons.
And I don't know if it was HBO or Showtime, but Clarke's like a crooked Rhode Island politician. And then his brother is is Jason Isaacs, who's basically Irish mob. Hmm. And is also fantastic. Yeah, they're both great, but he he kind of caught my eye then And that's that's been a long that was like, oh seven or eight I think is when that show ran. So yeah I don't they you know he did what did he do like one of the Planet of the Apes sequels did he.
So these tried to kind of make him a leading guy and the box office numbers just haven't really delivered for him to continue doing that stuff. But he's always really good. And even in play on the Apes, he wasn't the main character like he was definitely a supporting character in that. I mean, he was one of, I don't know, like I, I only watched it once, but I remember him being in a more prominent supporting character ensemble, you know, character for that. But yeah, he like that.
Obviously, that's not a great, great picture. But obviously Nolan saw it and was like, You can bring something and I'm going to pick you because or unless you audition for it for somehow, But usually with those kind of major roles, no one doesn't really let you audition. He just basically says, I want you come. He has you read that apparently that weird script that's like red paper with black text that's really hard to read. And he sits there with you while you read it.
Yeah. And you don't get to take it anywhere. You, you, you stay in that locked room. He's so smart for doing that. Yeah, he's so smart for doing that. And that, that computer he types his scripts on is not tied into the internet. So, like, it can't be it can't be hacked. He can't. Yeah. Yeah. They got the joke though. Downey Jr is like, Oh, this guy lives like it's 1847. No, no cell phone. Like. But it works for him, though. Why? Like, like what? What does he need it for? You know, it's like.
It's not like he's calling for people. Like he's one he calls it the unsung hero in all this, is for sure. And I want to bring attention to her. Is Nolan's wife and producing partner. Mm. Okay. She's done everything. Everything. Everything with him. Yeah? Yes. Is it Emma Thomas? Yes. Emma Thomas or she is. I'm telling you, man, she's something else. Like they're a team. They're. They really are. Like he, you know, he writes and directs, but producing stuff, work.
And she's kind of a totally underrated film producer. Well, and there's a reason why producers get the Oscar for best picture and not directors. Yeah, because they're really the one. I mean, obviously Nolan is a producer as well, but. But is if the director's on a producer, he doesn't get the Oscar for best picture. The producers, too, because they're the ones really kind of the true oversight on the entire film.
By the way, producing is what I should have, the track that I should have selected for film school instead of I think I started his directing and then went back to editing. But the producers, because they do that, they do that wonderful Hollywood budgeting and they always seem to get paid more than everybody else. Yeah, And now that's now what we're dealing with with the dual tool strike. Yeah. And had you been a producer, you would have, you know, would have put me in everything.
Since we're friends, you would've been like, All right, we're doing this project, but now it's got to be some random character. Like, well, like you be like Sam Raimi, and I'd be, Oh, what's the what's his name? That's an everything. Bruce Campbell. Bruce Campbell. I be Bruce Campbell like I'm a Bruce Campbell is a national treasure He is is fantastic I've said it is getting to work but I'd be I'd be Bruce Campbell for your Sam you know for you Sam Raimi for me there's still time.
But now I'm not going to do producing. I'm not in any sort of large, large format. But you heard him here. Folks gave him a producing job. You'll get me as an actor back in this package. Deal Done, Done deal. Yeah. The cast is cast. Kind of feels like a dream team kind of deal. I mean, even that, like the the small characters, the people that, you know, like actors I don't really know are fantastic in it. Just how do we pronounce Aldrin's last name? I'm like, I say, okay, okay.
So he was tremendous. Yeah, I love him. Like, I'm I feel so bad for him, how he was treated for doing solo that when he I didn't know he was in this like I didn't look at the cast list. And so when he popped up, I was I got super excited because I'm like, You are great. All of the hatred that is has been put on you because of soul or whatever is terrible. And those people are dumb because you were great and you brought it for Solo and he brought it for this as well.
Like just how he handled the the conversations that he had with Downey. How Well, I mean, I don't like I again, try not to spoil things, but some of his ending lines were just till I couldn't they're delivered perfectly like that kind of an indignation is just so like over all like well not you did a great job, you know, all done great. I mean, and nothing will kind of help do a career bounce back, like showing up in a Nolan film, especially one of this caliber.
Yeah. When you walk in a room and you're acting opposite Cillian Murphy and he's giving the kind of performance that he gives is often armor, which is, you know, kind of a once in a lifetime performance, it just forces you to, to only bring your A-game. And that's what everybody's done, even for the characters that just show up for a few minutes. Yeah, there's no, there's no like tone deaf performance in, in this movie. Everybody feels fully realized, even if they only show up for a few minutes.
It doesn't feel like this cardboard caricature. They feel like they feel like legitimate, real people. Yeah. And the thing does, it just moves. It's a rollercoaster. Mm hmm. Like listening to the podcast about his life, I wouldn't have walked in thinking that it was going to be this roller coaster or how Nolan did that tenseness, like his life doesn't really feel that tense.
And like, I mean, obviously there's moments like the Trinity test, those kind of things, how he was later in life, those felt tense. But it does such a good job of doing that build each and every almost every moment of kind of just rushing you through it and punching this all into 3 hours. So I saw an article that was claiming Nolan was making Oppenheimer this like, heroic figure. And I was like, We see the same movie. Yeah, because this is a this is super, super flawed protagonist.
And I think I think a good protagonist should be flawed. But the classic Hollywood framework says that they shouldn't be this flawed. Mm hmm. Generally, yeah. And he is is a really super kind of flawed and broken character. Um, and it just lends credibility to adapting from the source material that, that he wasn't the Nolan's like an employee colony. Punches here. This feels different.
This doesn't feel like the classic Hollywood biopic it's it's feels like a departure in some ways from what we usually get, which is kind of a fairy tale version of what really went down. And this thing's really rather raw and gritty. Yeah, even the way it's shot. And then the sound design is has a rawness to it. Mm hmm. Don't get me wrong, this the thing definitely looks I think it looks beyond its budget. The budget was 100 million. I mean, it looks like more like 150. Who's a hundred million?
And then he shoots it in 57 days and he's a mad man. Yeah. For him to make it for that amount and then get what he gets on the screen. But there is a rawness to it. There's a it's not that it's unfinished, it's fully realized, but it, it's not. It's got jagged edges. Is that the best way I could describe this movie? It's got it's, it's almost like it's not polished like it's create it's created like the the statue or whatever has been created, but it hasn't been smoothed over.
Like you get all of the good parts as well as the warts as well as the imperfections. But I think that's done on purpose. I don't like like we talked about this with Nolan, like, like I don't think this is something that he did just to rush it out or get it done. I think this is 100% he purposely wanted it to feel rough because of so of the issues with Oppenheimer's life, of all the flaws, like let's just not make Oppenheimer flawed.
Let's like, let's have the movie have some flaws to kind of accentuate Oppenheimer's flawed, like, especially because a lot of that roughness is in the kind of first person subjective view of the the colored portions of this movie. Like I would say, some of that roughness goes away in the black and white, like it's a lot, you know, cleaner and crisper because that's much more of the objective. Third person I kind of get curious like how many how many years has he been really marinating on this?
No one. Because this you know, this feels like, oh, he writes the script really quick. They go into production. But the reality is because how old is American Prometheus? It's old. So so what I read was that it was Robert Pattinson who gave him the book American Prometheus. But it was also be an interest in Oppenheimer before that. Yes.
Well, that's and that's why because so Pattinson was reading the book about Oppenheimer found out found out that no one had an interest in him and said, hey, here's the book. So obviously he was already thinking about it. But I think once he got the book after Tennent, I think that's when went into overdrive for writing the script.
But I guess it almost pre-dates that because one other thing I read that I thought was a value was that he had when he wrote a biopic about Howard Hughes, and he really did it as an exercise because Scorsese was coming out with The Aviator at the same time. But he wanted in his dream casting, he basically wrote it specifically for Jim Carrey, said it would have basically been like a role that Jim Carrey was born to play, but he wrote the script and no one will ever see the script.
But he kind of got it out of his system. But he basically said that a lot of the things he had floating around in his head regarding that undone Howard Hughes biopic enabled him to move more quickly, producing this. Mm hmm. Yeah, he got kind of figured it out. And this was a essentially a second biopic, so he didn't have to worry too much. Yeah, I get that.
Yeah. So practical effects, obviously, there's not a whole lot of effects in this movie except for one really major point or at least one kind of time period. But I got to say, like the fact that they are able to simulate a nuclear explosion, conventional weapons like like how how do you go about doing that? Like that is just like, absolutely ridiculous.
Yeah. And I and I've I don't want to spoil anything, but there there have been some people that were underwhelmed with the way that all played out. I rather enjoyed it and and this yeah I know you can. I know, I know. I should just read it. I should say this, but I don't I mean, I don't agree. It's done. It's done differently than I think I probably would have done it. It's it's it's far more impressive. And that other moment scared the crap out of me in the theater. Hmm.
You know, I think there's a lot going on there with conventional explosives and different things, techniques he had. But I think there's some other, you know, there's some other tricks of the trade it going on as well. But just as impressive is, is that subatomic kind of stuff that they do in the movie as well. And that was done kind of the old fashioned way with like water tanks and exactly the way they used to do clouds. You know, the in movies they would shoot in the cloud tank.
We used to they demoed that for us. And in film school they had the the big aquarium with you drop milk down into it and film it and you'd get, you know how they basically did clouds in movies for decades before CGI. So you have that sort of kind of technique going on. But yeah, his insistence on on shooting in cameras is kind of wild. Now there is a lot of there's a lot of compositing the visual effects team lists in the credits is not very long.
And people were accusing him of like leaving out a bunch of artists and he's like, No, that's that's not what happened. There's you know, there were probably 30 or 40 compositions and that's just what you need. Yeah, yeah, that's what you need. So, I mean, this is not Interstellar, This is not Inception. This is oh, he's nice and he's not afraid to use CGI. He's done it in the past. I mean, there's there's tons of like greenscreen work that they did for Dark Night.
I mean, he's not afraid to do it when he has to do it. But for something like this, you're shooting in 70 millimeter IMAX. If you can get it in the frame, let's just do that way. Yeah. And we've we've spoken to that ad nauseum that it's just they're starting to give us pushback because if I feel like the CGI just gets worse and worse every year in movies because they're outsourcing more and more of it and they're and they're paying less and less.
And so that and they don't care how good the end product is. So somebody goes and watches the movie. They already paid for a seat in the theater. They don't care whether the viewing experience is good. There you go in there. Yep. So they got their money. I, I appreciate his pushback on that. So and we've already talked about how practical effects stand the test of time way better than CGI anyway.
So I mean good practical effects, obviously you can do practical effects really badly, but you can do CGI really badly too. But yeah, we won't beat you over the head with the IMAX screening if you've got one near you. Agree and don't obsess whether it's 70 millimeter IMAX. There is only 30 of these things worldwide. You're just not going to know and how our our friend Lord called me up at 11:00 the other night with a debate with a friend. Shout out to those guys online. Ethan.
I think we're coming out of a second viewing or something of Oppenheimer. And and Ethan was getting ready to go to a third screening later that week. Oh yeah, he's obsessed, but but they had both seen it in 70 millimeter IMAX. And you know, Vlad preferred the the Dolby sound really interesting. He did. He did.
He's he's he felt like this He felt he was easier to understand the dialog in the Dolby Cinema than it was and and it I got to chalk it up to newer probably newer speakers in the doorway and and better placement than IMAX because IMAX is really meant to overwhelm you. Now, I will say this definitely didn't suffer like the tennant feeling. I couldn't understand what's going on. I thought the comics was fine.
Yeah, there was a couple of moments that I was just like, I could understand it, but I think that was poignant, like part, like purposeful of there's just so much going on. Like you're more get the feel of what's happening as opposed to knowing exactly what's being said. I could I could understand that it wasn't like some attendant were just like, wait, I have no idea what the majority of just was said between those people. But yeah, and I didn't think he would pull.
TENNANT And he didn't. But he also didn't. I think I still think the modern viewer gets caught up in thinking they need to hang on to every single word of dialog in a Nolan film. And he doesn't, you know, he can make you feel the way he needs you to feel. If you only get about 70 of what's going on, You know, it's not the kind of film that you have to stay with every last stinkin piece of dialog.
Yeah, because the what's going on is, is pretty clear to process and but it is, it is a wordy I was kind of taken aback frankly at how talky it kind of got but and I wasn't sure that that was entirely necessary but I don't have a bunch of complaints with this film. I I'm not really willing to call it perfect yet, but no, like we said, I want this to marinate and, you know, I definitely need I need another theatrical viewing. I agree. I think one more.
This is not going to be one I'm going to put on a bunch at the house. This is not an interstellar inception. It's just not. And that's okay. That's okay. These these heavy movies, heavy themes, they don't need to be put on repeat. That's not you know, that's not what. It's not necessary. No. So it's but I will say it is entertaining. Like it's not that it's not entertaining. It's just kind of beat you up. I mean, I felt audibly this the sound design.
I kind of felt like assaulted like not I mean, like, I don't want to use that term lightly. It was as close to, you know, psychological, emotional, kind of getting beat over the head as I think you could probably pull off in a movie. And it was done with the sound design. Yeah. And I've spoken other people that felt the same way. So I there was one person said they had one moment. They almost felt like they needed to walk out. Huh? Yeah, like I said. And Laura need to put their hands every year.
And I was was like, We know the scenes. We know the scene. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So then something else. Something else. Well, Oppenheimer or as we've been referring to in the office, Oppenheimer, a popcorn tale, a moment of gravity for a very heavy movie. For a very heavy movie. Yes. Yes. You have any parting thoughts on. On this latest epic from Mr. Nolan? Yeah. This is hands down.
Well, I think every movie should be seen in the theater This truly is one of those movies that does benefit from seeing in the theater the imagery and also the weight of what's going on that you're just not going to get on the smaller screen. Some of the emotional hits are very visual and will work so much better on that large, huge screen with that big sound that you're just not going to have on your TV or even in your case, your little projector.
Like there's something about that that just hits different. I mean, I love going to the theater. I love seeing every movie in the theater, but this is definitely one that I would tell people you need to see in the theater before it goes, you know, and and not so much because of the spectacle, but also because just the beats will hit different not not different, but not as hard.
I think, like you're going to get like you said, be exhausted and you're going to kind of get tired out watching this movie on the theater that you're not going to have when you if you watch it on your screen, your TV, The goal is to leave with a with a different perspective kind of on the world and and the man and yeah, I think that can best be accomplished on whatever theatrical viewing you've got available to.
And if you're going to drive a couple of hours for an IMAX, I, I might do that, but I probably wouldn't recommend somebody else do that. You know, you see how you can and yeah before and I think it's going to be in theaters for a while.
I don't know about the IMAX stuff and I just got this sneaking suspicion with the strike and everything that that they're going to give something like this a longer stay than they may be normally word, which I think is going to be good I'm I miss that theater movies used to be in the theater forever. Mm So now we got to think this the the earliest said they said this would stream this is October I think if I had to guess it, it'd be the end of October. Hmm.
So at least for the next probably 2 to 3 months, it should be available. And I'm thinking as long as it continues to to do well, which it has. Well, that wraps it up from our hopefully spoiler free. I think we yeah, we did a pretty good job I think Yeah. I wanted I really we we kind of pick and choose whether we're going to spoil stuff and and it was important that we not do that with this movie. It's too it's too new, it's too important and it's just a hell of a piece of cinema.
Yeah. And if you're listening on the audio only, we appreciate you put these out every Monday and then you can kind of keep up with what we're going on, what's going on and any upcoming.
We tease our upcoming episodes on our social media channels, mainly Facebook and Instagram, occasionally put some stuff out on the ticktock, but we appreciate you listening to another episode of Cinema Day to be this one is one that we've been looking forward to for this was our most anticipated 23 2023 movie and it delivered. Yeah. And then some I so yes, I absolutely agree with that. So All right, thanks everybody.