Affordable Housing

For thirty five years, Cindy Stumpo has been a female home builder with a passion for design, a mastery of detail, and a commitment to her crack. With daughter Samantha Stumpo by her side, I don't need my.

Whole family on a date with me.

That's a good note.

It's goddymn weird.

See.

Stumpo Development is the only second generation female construction company in the country.

You're crazy, You're a wacko, You're insane.

I mean, it just doesn't end together.

Cindy and Samantha welcome guest to explore the world of construction, real estate, development, design and more.

Unpredictable.

Every time I think I know what you want, you switch it out. But that's what makes sure houses.

All your They discuss anything that happens between the roof and the foundation. Nothing is off limits. You truly do care about everybody. She can yell at chicken scream, but when you get her alone, she's the best person on the planet. Cindy Stumpo is tough as nails.

Welcome to Ciddy Stumpo Nails on waz News Radio and I Am in the studio tonight with Samantha if Ross. Would get his head out of his ass.

What's a regular occurrence?

I got Jimmy Cumm's information in front of me. I want to like, thank God, I know who Gilbert is. Gilbert, introduce yourself to everybody. Please explain what in who you are?

Sure, Gilbert? When you live here in Boston, we have a company called Win Companies, which is one of the leaders in the country and building and operating affordable housing.

Would you say you're wanted the lodges out there for affordable We are the lodgest Yeah.

I think we're the largest operator of income restricted housing in the country.

Pretty amazing.

Huh, Yeah, it's pretty exciting. We're in twenty seven states. I get to work with forty five hundred folks who share the same passion as I do. And we've been in business for fifty three years after my father started the company.

Okay, so let's set the record straight, right now. I'm at the record straight. People always think, oh, yeah, you know Lucky Smurr Bank, he walked into all this, right, which it's great, but somebody got to keep it going. It's getting old.

Now, right, and yeah, you're getting old now.

Yeah. I don't need you to remind me I'm getting old now either you told me to speak, so when she does speak, it's like a right hook to the chin.

Okay.

But the truth is that there's a lot of pressure on you, right, and people can say because people are always going to talk and you're not going to stop to talk. Right. It's just how it is that, oh, you know, Gilbert this, and I don't like that type of talk. So when I hear talk like that, I'm like, okay, yeah, you go full people's shoes, go see how hard it is and how easy it is. Not right, But the room or on the street is you're doing a great, great

Sure. So the biggest project we're working on is a three thousand unit development in South Boston. It's over well.

The actor that just it was on last weekend, he just he's from South Boston.

Was that right? Yeah? So I'd say this is South Boston, not the seaport, Real South Boston.

What they call real Sealthyal, I live in real sealthe well, they tell me, I live in the news.

So don't be doxy yourself one radio, go ahead.

So this is absolutely the Old Southeast. So this is right by Moakley Park off Old Colony Avenue, Carson Beach, thirty acres of land that for eighty years has been home to the Mary Ellen McCormick housing project used to be called Old Harbor, and it hasn't.

So do you know what that is?

You know where he's talking about.

Okay, so those are pretty bad projects first for Irish projects back in the day.

Yeah. So they started off, i would say as veterans housing actually after the Second World War, and HUD sort of which funded it originally, sort of got out of the housing business and started funding new construction but not really taking care of their old properties. So really, over the last fifty years, it's not gotten any money invested into it. We were designated by the Boston Housing Authority to redevelop it and we won that seven years ago.

Okay, so let's talk about that for a minute, because I understand construction. We are the families right now, where do they go while you're doing all this?

Well, that's like the key complication. So our first building, there's going to be about sixteen new buildings built there. Our first building is on a piece of land that doesn't have any housing, so that we can have a relocation resource for the folks in the next phase. So we're basically going to move one hundred people in from the second phase into the first and then tear down the third phase and rebuild it and move the people that were off side in the third phase into the

Wow, this is all going on.

This is all going on.

That's pretty cool.

Yeah.

And then you you're able to put them in other units that you guys have.

Yeah, so we manage, you know, tens of thousands of units in Massachusetts, so we have plenty of places to put them. But generally what happens is the rule of thumb on these other developments is you get relocated to either a Boston Housing Authority site or you get a voucher and you move to another town. Only about half the folks actually moved back to the development. They choose to just continue living where they're living.

Oh, mister Crouchie's walked into the door. That's very good. Take it late, okay, yeah, okay, this is what happens.

Yes, taught me what to do a broke the like be late and then you make the sale be late.

So you're the main entrance.

Nice jacket, Carucci.

Queen Bee, that's Queen Bee.

You know how I got that name?

He'll tell you earned it.

How do I get the name Queen Bee? Talking to his mic? You need to talk to the mic.

It was on a job site maybe, I don't know, twenty five years. You see all these men buzzing around her, and they look like little bees.

I can see that.

That makes sense, And I was Queen Bee?

Then, Am I wrong?

No, that's what happens. Still happens all day every day to the party. I'm a little crazy out there. I'm a little crazy. Okay, So we'll go back to this. How many who's hitting me a thing? I think I am? How many units or how many thousands of square feet does win properties. Okay, you're settled down there, you're making a lot of noise. Somebody's like blowing out my head from here. It must be you, okay, Oh yeah, blame me for everything. No, Mike, I'm blaming Mike. Okay. Throughout

Yeah. So by units, we we operate about one hundred and ten thousand units in twenty seven states.

One hundred and ten thousand units yep and homy states.

In twenty seven states, District of Columbia and now Puerto Rico as well.

Actually all affoodable on that way.

My wife's people here, yes, Marisol's people. So I would say eighty percent of what we do is somehow income restricted, and the about twenty thousand units are middle and market rate housing.

Okay. And then what about commercial property?

A couple of million square feet of commercial property.

No big deal. I just want you to know, a couple million square feet, a.

Couple million, which is generally speaking, it is under you know, it's ground full or retail of of market rate or affordable housing. And then we have one million square foot building in of all places, Rochester, New York, that we bought and have redeveloped into housing, office and retail.

It's a campus, wasn't it before?

It was a campus. It was a community college campus. And it was the largest department store between New York and Chicago. And when Rochester no longer had Kodak and other you know, large businesses, it shot down and we bought a million square feet for five million dollars and started to rebuild it over the last decade.

You're having a panic attack over there was.

Did you run out of coke?

Did you get out a giant coch Do you want me to go to break? Do you want me to go for a break? Okay? Hold that thought, We're going to break? He ran the clock.

I love it.

You were in the clock. What do you think this is Monday night football? You were in the clock in that case? Okay, all right, okay, And you're listening to Sidney Stumpo on Toughest Nails with Samantha Stumpbo Go ahead.

Gilbert when and Michael.

Carucci and Samantha stem Okay, Sydney name twice yep, it will be right back.

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Show one scream.

And welcome to Sidney stump On Toughest Nails on w b Z News. And I'm Cindy and I'm here with Samantha and Michael Gilbert. Okay, there we go.

We just go an like a law firm.

We could do that and Gilbert hold on, no, we need an Irish person. It would be Stumpo court Caruci and win and win those two Maiteans in one room. Okay, but okay, so it's a million square footage of commercial. Here's my question if I go into the questions that I like to ask my own questions, is there ever a time that you just want to say, you know what, we own enough property, I'm going to go live my

Right, Yeah, I heard it could go a little sideways.

No, not what the winds kids got?

How old your kids?

I got a twelve year old and a nine year old.

Well, we don't know how they're going to turn out yet, Okay, I.

Know all the grandkids. Yeah, and they're all like, oh my god, speaking Mandarin this language. Oh god.

Okay, so they're brilliant kids.

Yeah, no, I'm not worried about the third generation. It's a good question. I my wife asked me it all all the time. Why am I working so hard? Why do I care to grow the company? I don't have any specific goals, like I want to get to a certain unit count or a certain number of properties.

It's the leading in the country for affordable housing.

We are.

Let's just let's just play that in our brain a couple of times. Okay, yes, but I can anybody catch up to you at this time?

We're not going to let them. How about that?

I love that. Yeah, I think the natural.

You know, but I think I think what has not been stated enough is the impact of companies like when in companies in Boston in general, that has been on the forefront. So affordable housing started in the in the nineteen thirties, and the first two projects coincidentally was one of Win's current biggest undertaking at the time is the Mary McCormick Housing project, So that that was one of the first in nineteen thirty nine, along with Langston Terras

Were talking about Massachusetts or throughout the country.

Well, we have to talk about throughout the country because it sort of started the what we now know is affordable housing.

But who started?

And then in nineteen eighty six started that New York and New York and Massachusetts were the first two states. Yeah, but nineteen eighty six the Low Income Tax Credit came about, which really revolutionary whatever, maybe not using the right word. And then of course in the nineties the WHOPE program and the HUD program started, and so those were sort of the thresholds of what we know I don't know

Yeah, Yeah, how did dad start in nineteen seventy one who was how old.

He was afraid of failure?

That yeah, Mike. Mike's one of my father's best friends. Knows them as well as anyone, and that's exactly right. So he started in this business because it was public private partnership. He didn't have to show up with a wad of cash and a big bank account, which he didn't have at the time. So he could actually build housing in partnership with the government who would supply the capitol.

They could have chose somebody else too.

They wasn't a mature industry back then, and they took a.

Chance on him.

Yeah, so there was another out the win out there that could have been at the wind, but they chose out the win.

Well, some of the there was the x cognitives of the work. It was the Ron Druka who your dad worked for a dollar a year. He paid him bertruck his father a dollar a year.

What was that?

Yeah, this was it was almost it was like going to the best real estate school you could go to. You would pay to play, right, So yeah, he said Bert, pay me whatever you think I'm worth and and make me successful so I can start my own company.

He said, you're worth a dollar.

But you know what, you know what Bert did that it was really admirable. Is that your dad stayed on an extra year. I think you said to Bert, I'll give you five, and your father stayed for six. But when Arthur exited, what happened probably doesn't happen a lot now. Bert made a call to his bankers and he said, author's going out on his own. I want you to help him. Wasn't envious, wasn't competitive, and I think that's incredibly ration.

Those were the days, my friend men, We men were men. It's just like the guy's Julius Cohen, Danny Rottenberg and that whole group.

Julian Cohen was very good friends with Atha.

That's a great name too.

They could have bought the Boston Celtics for five million dollar remember that.

If you told you that, it's only five billionaire. So it might have been a good about.

Julian plan and Altha could have bought the Celtics for five million dollars.

I bought land from them, and it was actually a funny little funny story is that Cohen said, and Danny Rottenberg goes, why do you want this piece of land? I said, I like diamond and the roughs. He goes, but you can't do anything with it. I go, don't you worry about it. I will do something with it. Only do I do something with it. I ended up with, I bought you a little over two acres. End up

You are talking to a man right now.

Okay, we got one hair in the studio. Okay, personally, the generations have changed, right, it's changed. You're still at that age that it's like that thirty what do you say me?

Thirty seven?

There's seven and down?

How old you forty six?

That's a difference. So it's that you're the last of the last, and then it's just ca.

Is that bringing that comes in.

I don't know, Michael. Look what I'm seeing out there is.

That generationally speaking, You're probably right.

Well, I will tell you what I'm saying now is sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, nine year old kids, it's turning and they want to get into the trades. They don't want to go to college if they're not college material. Right, there's a shift going on, and I think they're going to be better than the generation of my daughter, my son that's thirty seven and thirty one.

You and I didn't talk about this ahead of time. It's amazing. I feel the exact same way this generation alpha. I figure it is going to save society. I think they're backlashing.

You won't be just okay, and you'll see it, yeah, but maybe I won't, you know what I mean. Like, by the time they get leveled up to where they're going, you will see that being in your forties, right, so, and you'll have them to come out and still be building and working and developing and do what you're doing. It's this, it's this, I don't know, it's that twenty gap eight to thirty to thirty seven. What is it, Sammy?

Is it like dating sam too?

Oh?

Yeah, Well, I have a lot of friends that are like, go from like twenty two to like twenty eight, and they all want to hustle. And then I have other friends that go from my twenty eight to thirty five, lost in space and they want to love what they do. If I ever came home and told you that, I think you would have told me to what does that mean?

Never heard of that? Like I would have been afraid to.

Tell you that, Yeah, you love what you do. Just go to work. Yeah, just go to work and you love what you do.

Okay, But they also like can't get out of their own way, like everything is like the end of the world.

So that's what I'm saying, Like there's just a generation that I grew up with, Like you grew up with your dad, and he made a big impression on you. And that's why you say I'm a real man, Cindy, because you're around a real man.

Talk about when you stole the car.

We're all going to do stupid things when we.

Can kill the car. The car you steal a car from your own parents, because.

That's what we do.

If okay, I stole keys and through and through parties.

Yeah she did that too. I mean, I'm all going to do stupid things. All that thought. Welcome to Yeah, all that thought, I'm gonna break. It's a city stampo and you listen to Top of Nails on w b C News and will be right back.

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Next day, Molding and Kennedy Carpet.

And welcome back to Cidy Stumbo toough his nails on WBZ News. And I'm Cindy Stumpo and I'm with Samantha Stumpo.

And Michael Carucci and s Gilbert When.

Okay, so we're talking about upbringings. So maybe that's why you are the man you are because you had author Now would you do you stole a car?

How was this a segment? I borrowed a car? How it happened to have gotten a bit of a fender bender? And that's now family lore. I was licensed license still emitting at the time.

I want to ask some relevant questions.

Also looking question you just gave me. Yes, I was fifteen, Like it was.

A Porsche, right, was it as you stole the porsh borrowed?

Yeah, and then you cracked it up.

A little bit. That tree got in the wast Okay, I.

Cracked a lot of cars up, she said, everything but ash trays. I don't think they put ash trays and cars anymore. We've all done stupid things.

You stupid. I was there for me.

That was one of the biggest stupid things. I was the stupidest.

Well, I thought that was the stupidest.

I really apologize a life.

That's the stupidest thing. You brought up grouching. Okay, so now you are the CEO of Win Companies. Yes, and you became the CEO.

Win about six years ago.

And when you got out I'm sorry.

Geez, it was more like eight years ago.

But five years it related. So let's talk about baptism by fire.

Yeah. So my first job at a school was at Related Companies in New York, and I don't think there's a better company to learn from. They were doing Steve Columbus Circle at the time.

So you went and learned through another company, not with your dad.

My first three years in the business was with Related.

It was three So that was the best move, not coming writing with your dad.

I felt I needed my own expertise and in relationships. And to this day, Mike mentioned how New York and Massachusetts oft have led the way historically with the affordable housing. Correct, So many of my contacts are from those years in New York, and so I have the Boston and the New York contacts which have been very helpful.

I always say that Chad needs to go work for somebody else, right, Sammy, absolutely so, and go not work with me. And that's the only way this is going to work. And I've been saying it for years.

Only if you can be like an overbearing parent. But I don't think that that would be true.

If you I'm shot to go work, right. I want him to go work with my buddy Anthony Rossi, because if he works with Rossi, I mean even you'll be begging to come back to me.

You didn't want me to work for you. I begged my way and pushed.

Yes, but you work for us, work for Krucci. She did learning from the melody that's true, that they're really dumb, and that was done right. And they wouldn't hire her. She graduated because she was a threat.

She was perceived threat.

She was perceived to be a threat. So because she was my daughter, you know, a pretty woman. When they go, when he walks in, when she walks back in and goes, we should get yeah when she walks no, when she goes, big mistake, big mistake?

Would you spend an obscene amount of.

Ye when he says that, But she first got turned away from the fancy store with the fancy ladies.

That thought, we all know money.

So Samantha got got the pushback. Actually, you just did an AI, Mike, just an AI the day on YEA, what happens? Would you give it? A command that said what.

Who the most prominent Boston luxury real estate brocus using AI?

And what came up?

Sam? Myself?

And I think you came up for us?

Sam one? Sam was second. It's interesting, you know, because everyone's doing Google searches.

You know, what did Kennedy work for Daron Kennedy?

They didn't, They wouldn't hire me. But now she says it.

Yeah a minute, So how did Sam do for you? She did great?

Yeah, we had one deal with the two point.

S won't take.

He told me to write it up right first.

You ended up trading it at like two four. Because your first offer is almost always your best.

Yeah, I remember the lesson learn though.

I was sitting at open house for free, which nobody does now, sat there for free just because I wanted to meet people in Belmont, and this woman kept coming back with their family and I was like, they want, they want to offer this, and the owner said, don't write it up, and I was like, I'm so confused.

It was early in the development, which was a mistake. That was a valuable lesson.

Yeah, figure stuff out. She just but again it's the type of kid that you are. I always say, if you have that burning desire, you will be successful. If you don't have the burning desire, the tenacity forget about it.

But your challenge isn't different now though, Gilbert, you you're in a mature industry. The Ballooon is sort of off the road in the affordable housing space. It's a mammoth company. Will you are three three thirty five hundred employees for five yes, And so you know, when you're running an operation that size, it's inevitable that you lose some nimble nimbleness. And so what do you find, uh, your biggest you know, Cindy asked a very good question like how big is big?

Is?

When do you stop? And but what are your biggest challenges now? And at the size and the space event night now would win.

So the biggest challenge, and I don't think that this would be any different in the construction business, is finding folks that show up to work. Ye, not alone, you could work and you can work from home. And but but the folks that have to actually be there for you exactly. So we we're in the property management. We have one hundred thousand units, so we may.

Have the largest manager of military housing in the country. Did you know that?

No?

I know that either.

And these are folks that can't do their job remotely, right, So how do you motivate people to show up, have good customer service, work with their hands, or work you know, in an office all day and they can't take day off. You can't go onto a management office and know the property manager decided to work from home today. That doesn't work. So how do we get the right people to show up every day and keep our culture? That's our challenge?

Okay? And the average contract was fifty years old, so I hope you know that right. So if you take the average contractor thank you for my donkeys. My donkeys, yeah, Boston donkeys, thank you. With that being said, if the average contract is fifty we're going to go through fifteen years of not a lot of labor coming up. But after that, but I've been shouting this since twenty ten, since my TV shorting GTV. We come on this eight nine ten crisis, and this is twenty eleven when I

You're the canary in the coal mine.

If it's that mpath thing, I just want to get rid of it. It's a Christen a blessing, it really is.

I want to be born by.

Shamini, not a cancer. You're just tell me what your birth says. Uh Taurus, Okay, you're the bull bulls Okay.

One of the other issues is that these folks are changing jobs so often. So it's one thing not to have gone to trade school. It's another thing to not to have, you know, become a property manager, let's say, or a maintenance professional, and then you decide three years later you want to do something else, and two years

But that's generational employees. But here's a generational problem.

You got better retention than at the top level you get phenomenal.

But he's talking and going forward, rank, drank and file.

Whi's the numbers game. You have forty five employees.

Here's how a person thinks that. I see, I'm going to give this two three years. If that fails, Sammy, you've been hearing me say that at public speaking events fast twelve thirteen years. If I don't make it there, I'll try this at two three. Isn't that fails, I'll try something else. Why don't you stick with one thing and become a master and a maven of it instead of I'm gonna give it two three years. Well then what because they want to try something.

Else, they want overnight success.

Well, that's not how life works. Sorry.

It's a sprint, not a Maraica exactly.

Unless you're lucky enough to come up with some really great thing, a pet rock that sold for millions and links and millions of dollars, go out and work hard. It does pay off. It does. It takes your life away. You don't breathe sometimes. Sometimes you're loaning your own thoughts. Have you ever got that all the time? And you could be in a room full of people and you're still loaning your own thoughts. Right, that's kind of what we're saying roomful of Yeah, but you say exactly. So

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Ultra and welcome back to tap his nails on WBZ. And I'm here with.

Samantha and Michael Gilbert.

Okay, so let's talk about this big development get going on in Boston. Right. My question is this, you hire a construction company or you self performing.

We hired We picked a construction company, Lee Kennedy out of South Boston.

Yeah, I know the Kennedy. Okay, great, Now where they getting the help?

Oh? Well, it's a it's a it's an all union job, so that I think that will help source some people. But yeah, I don't get into that aspect. That's your that's your expertise.

So three thousand units.

So they give you their number going in. Okay, you're gonna build it. What's the timeframe?

Ten years?

Yeah, so we uh, we're going to go right on top of the game. We're going to start this year on the first hundred units, and then every eighteen months after that we're going to build another couple of hundred units until we get to thirty three hundred units. That's the plan.

It takes how many years?

You said it's going to take a couple of decades more than ten.

Okay, Well okay, so let me ask you guys a question.

You can't fix construction costs.

No, you can't hide out very expensive construction, very expense so long.

So we uh, we're doing it building by building. You know, we we were designated for the entire site, but you can only build the project in front of you, So we have a fixed price cost on the first building.

I just want to get something straight right now, if we put all of us together, and it's not about politics, to make a point, can we build three million housings in four years.

Honestly, it's going to be a little difficult.

Three million.

Now in the country that's needed.

No, I said, if you put us all together, we couldn't do it.

If you had freeland, all the approvals, all the zoning, it would still be difficult.

Okay, thank you, that's perfect world stuff.

Okay, and let me ask this question. They want affordable housing, right, but then they tie our arms, our hands behind usaghood licensing and everything else, and to get off the ground. Just give you the permits, just let you go.

Like enough enough, I think, I think, go build.

Bill, but then tie our hands up.

I think what's important to bring up is the stigma that has been attached to affordable housing. And our wind has product differential on that. And the stigma is their tenants they don't own, they're not going to take care of their homes, their slum lords. And I can tell you a couple of stories. Your dad told me a story about the South End development where at some point they didn't want to put central air conditioning in. Was that which was that Mission Maine or Castle Square? Castle

We had young like Samantha.

I don't know if you know this story, but your father definitely knows the story. I text you would quarterfy this morning. You were still sleeping, just so you know, well then you were having coffee. So anyway, so we have multiple bids on the Lowell project and I'll never forget this. I'm with the one of the final bids we're standing outside of the management office which was on site, and I forget the woman's name, No, but it's a

Yeah, Mike, I would say that this is really starts back with my father, Arthur Way at the beginning. It's like affordable housing should be undifferentiated from market, right. Housing shouldn't be able to go buy that building and say that must be affordable housing, and then you drive on you say that must be market. You have to manage it just as well. You have to put money into it and you have to care. And that's what I

Your buildings have weightless to get in them, and that's not the case for everything else.

It's exactly right. There's certainly affordable housing, and so were we're trying to be the best of its kind in any neighborhood.

Has the industry maturing helped it our heard at Gilbert.

I think it's actually hurt it in one way, which is back when two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine happened and folks got out of the market rate business. And this has happened during COVID too. They all said, Oh, this affordable housing game, I'm going to try to get into it. So you had a lot of wall money coming in, you had a lot of folks that had

Are you picking up any of those after the fact?

We are, I mean, that's half our business. Is else's problem?

Okay for every winner, right, every loser, there's a winner. Every winner, there's a loser. It's just how it works, right. Somebody said to me one time, well, you're the shock that comes in. No, no, I'm not the shock. I'm the barracoudal. Let's get that straight. You're a problem. I'll take it, but we're going to buy it at the rate that it's going to be period.

Right.

It's just a little different here in Massachusetts because you know, our land costs a high right, you can go into other states where land's not what it is up here.

Yeah, but you knew about going to certain cities. Even in mass other place people were not going to like it's a new thing that every wants to build a Worcester.

It was not like that before.

That's a great I wasn't. I was speaking for a long.

Time, but before everybody else did.

Correct. You guys have been in Worcester for a long time.

When it works, it works because of Sam what you were just saying, which is why were we in Worcester. We were in Worcester because the city was actually fairly easy to work with.

The best thing you pulled out of Worcester was Michael Bryant.

We have exactly a former city manager that's a pro development town, Worcester city town. Whatever they wanted. It's just like we go out of the areas and then you got Newton Brookline going stump or get out of here right like, we don't want you right like. He's like, well me, I'm not going anywhere.

But it took everybody else how many years to catch up?

Oh my god, thirty years, forty years. Don't want to touch Worster.

My favorite story I'd say in my career about that is we built really the first market rate housing component in downtown Worcester in like thirty years, but we did it with the state, so half the units were market rate and half the units were affordable. But we did such a good job in this old mill building. We were getting twenty five hundred and three thousand dollars reds. It was that underwriting that the market rate guys came in a year later and built three hundred units of

What is your state outside of Massachusetts, that's your second biggest state of owning affordable.

So management wise it's California. We manage about fifteen thousand units.

You just love those Blue states.

But development ownership wise, it's it's going to be New York and New Jersey or the two folks.

Yeah, so blow blue states any Red states.

But that's not a coincidence city. I mean, these are the states that don't just take the federal money in build housing. They put in state money and that's what makes these things go.

And the Red states don't hardly ever.

Really Yeah, I mean they they don't put in hardly any of the money to build new Essentially, they're funding you know, public housing and things like that, but they're not building new construction.

Yeah, what about the send of YOUA familiar with the forty B said, of course, So I got to give you it is the carrot, you know, but after I get through all.

But the idea.

But the idea of Fordy B and the carrot and the stick sho Win is not known for the threat of forty B. Correct, Yeah, we we we do friendly forty friendly fordy B's, which I think we should talk about that a little bit because it's so unusual.

We're just kicking right now, so we might have to have a second segment, so we are third or fourth, one fourth, so you got twenty seconds real fast.

One of the things we do to make it a friendly forty b is we include a tranch of workforce housing middle income housing, so we're not just going in with low end market. We're selling the dream and the reality of middle income housing. And everybody wants that in their neighborhood, so they'll take the affordable. If they don't like that, or if they don't like gentrification, they'll take the market as long as you have a trance of

Really amazing. All right, everybody hold that thought. This is city Stumble. We're going off the break and you're listening to Tempest Nails on WDZ News Radio. Joy and welcome back to Tempest Nails on WBZ. Who's ten thirty? Author, I love you. I call your father, author, right, I'm telling you, Author, I love you through you, through your later that way. Now I'm gonna make sure he listens, Okay, Author, I love you. Okay, Now, Gilbert Quy, should I have

Understand why you're in this business as opposed to other sorts of housing. Make sure it's about the tenants. Make sure it's about pride of ownership. And you're going to have a lot of public private relationships. So keep your word and do a good job and you'll get more opportunities.

And it is a money making business.

It's both a money making business and a reputation builder. Do both.

Okay, everybody, have a great, safe weekend. This is City Stampboat Up is Nails on WBZ News Radio ten thirty and we'll be back next weekend.