All right, cool. Where are you? exactly is this
min Rapid City, South Dakota? At the arena here is called Rapid City arena.
Okay, because this you guys are on tour right now.
Yeah, we are. Yeah.
And who is it with again?
We're out right now with Godsmack. And stand was on. But they hopped off the train of Dawn show you hopped off and now I prevail is on. I think the rest is Iberville.
Okay, see, I'm assuming you guys are the opening act because you don't have as many songs right. Are you?
Yeah, that's right. We're opening. Yes.
So how many songs you play? Because I'm right now there's only two singles out? Are you playing original songs? I haven't been released yet. are doing covers are? Yes.
Yes. Yes. So there is a cover. And you know, it's opening. So we have 30 minutes. And it's seven songs all unreleased with one cover. So yeah, we're playing unreleased material right now from our record.
And nothing from Five Finger Death Punch or falling refraction?
Actually, yes. Five Finger Death Punch. We do play one. Punch off.
Okay, is this so? Is this the first podcast? You did? I tried to find interviews with you. And I couldn't find any.
I I've done others but, or I've done like a few, like small things here. And there. I think they're just not out yet. We did several during louder than life. There's like a whole breast tent that we sort of went around and did a lot. We're but yeah, there's the I've not really been like personally interviewed. Like, very often, you know, I've had very short, you know, five minute sort of things like, what's your band? Where are you from? I didn't get
there. And you know, but yeah, not really, the answer is probably not.
Okay, because I was trying to figure out like, your story. I mean, all I know, is that you were introduced to music at 13 from your sister and Guitar Hero, and then you just started playing local bands. And that's kind of all we owe, and then you obviously you joined falling in reverse and played bass. Yeah. But how did you go from the local bands to falling in reverse? Because that's a pretty big jump, right?
So I'll tell you, I was from like, probably 17, I'm 25 now but, you know, when I was like, 17, I started making videos and be seeing, like, for YouTube, like YouTube videos, okay. And I did, I was like, a pretty big falling in reverse than and especially that the new songs, I think are pretty, you know, excellent. And, you know, exceed what's coming out. Now. I really liked that stuff. And I really loved it when I was making those videos. So I made lots of videos, doing falling in
reverse songs. And you know, that sort of like, I guess that you know, weighing of work towards sort of bands. And I sort of got discovered, I think, you know, a lot of bands, watch the covers that people do there. So I don't think a lot of people realize that, like, most bands watch, like, every cover, they might not comment, but they they've watched this up, you know, and that is interesting. I think it's true. I mean, I might be wrong. I might it might not be the case always. But I think
most bands probably watch. Even like the cover even like the coverage is 100 views or something on YouTube. I think most bands see. Because it's kind of fun to like, Watch. Watch, you know, people care enough about your song to like, learn it. Like, would you have
that much time to go through? I mean, if you're a band like fallen reverse with millions of followers, there's got to be a lot of covers out there.
Yeah, he's got time now he watches he watches. And he's talking about the singer Ronnie. Yes. Yeah. He discovered me through my YouTube videos. And when I was like 21 or so I was on tour with my my band, which is called the worst of us. And I was on tour with them for my first like tour ever. I was you know, tour but I'm driving. I'm driving the 12 Passenger with the trailer and you know, I'm driving everywhere and barely alive, you know. And he flew me out for a few days to
rehearse with them. And it didn't work out the first time. They sort of four days in they're like, we don't think we have time to you know add into the mix or whatever. So devastating, right? Yeah, I was. I was. I was added to the bay At that time to play guitar, but like third guitar, like, like keyboards and guitar, like some, something crazy to get me in just because they wanted me for my vocals, but there was sort of a job made up for me so that I can, you know, get added in
vocally. But then, you know, that didn't work out. But we stayed in touch. And, you know, Ronnie was really nice to me when I was younger there. And he was, you know, he gave me a shot.
Sorry, how old were you? When he first called you?
I was 21. And then that didn't work out. And then about two years later, right before the pandemic hit, he had an opening in the band for bass. And he gave me another chance there. And then COVID hit. So I was sort of in limbo for a long time thinking, Oh, my God, this is my big opportunity. And then it's gone. Like, the COVID thing kind of screwed me there. But yeah, then I played with them for like, a year or two, probably a year, or something like that. I did on tour on a
live stream. And, you know, we, you know, we have a lot of issues like relationally and stuff. So, you know, he's, he's the man, you know, he's a great songwriter, and I respect him a lot. But, you know, I wasn't meant for that band, especially for a long period of time. But it was a fantastic experience, you know, and I learned a lot. And I'm very grateful to him and those guys for giving me the opportunity, because I probably wouldn't be here, you know, if I hadn't done that, but I became
connected with Jason. While I was doing that, I had, we had a mutual friend who introduced us because he was looking for a singer for years, like two or three years. And yeah, I, I happen to, you know, get out of that gig. When he was like, desperate for a singer. And I went and tried out while I was still with the other band. And, you know, he sort of said, Oh, well, like, I need a bass player that can do vocals, too. And I said, Well, I don't want to do it if I'm not the singer, man.
So I turned him down. And he said, Okay, I understand. Good luck. And we parted ways are there. And then I, you know, I sort of had a falling out with the calling universe. Yeah. And I was, you know, unemployed. So he caught wind of that. And we started talking again, and then one thing led to the next and I got the job that I wanted, you know, sort of a blessing in disguise, as my mom says all the time. So yeah, that's, that's pretty much the story. I was just an I was an internet
singer. And I got really, really lucky and picked up and you know, you're,
well, so but when you first got that call at age 21, and it's like, you get the phone call and guy just says, like, hey, it's Ronnie from falling in reverse like you not believe it, or to somebody call you before and say, Hey, this is my Ronnie's publicist is gonna call you or how does that work?
Ah, he messaged me on or her he tweeted a photo of me a photo of my cover something like a screenshot and these that somebody helped me find this kid. And then I messaged him on Twitter. And I said, Hey, that's me. Like, what? What do you want to do? And he's like, can you fly out tomorrow? We're leaving for torn is like, yeah, to be honest with you, if you want the real story. And if you want the real dirt here, I was on tour
with my band. And like, so I'm like, the singer, and I was the singer and guitar player of my band at the time. So like, I was, you know, pretty essential. And when I got that, you know, I had that conversation with him. And I was so overwhelmed. I never I'm not a super emotional person. But I fucking bawled my eyes out, man. Like I was, so it was so overwhelming to tell my band that I'm like, guys, I gotta go. And they're on their first tour. You know, they were like, Yeah, you know, this is
brutal for them. I'm sure. I'm sure they understand.
No, because they want the best for you. And like, my friends had that opportunity. I'd be like, of course, you got to take that. Right.
But we're like in self care. So we're from Massachusetts, and we're like, you know, in South Carolina or something like that. And, you know, we're not like close at home. So they're like, in the middle of nowhere, like, far from home and I'm like, guys, I gotta go like, I don't know, put me on the laptop or something. Or like, put me on the Yeah, they like track me for the four days that I was. Yeah, it was
pretty bad. It was like, the situation was like, those guys were like, awesome guys that were like totally had my best interest. Just in mind, like, I'm sure I would have gotten, like, you know, kicked out of that band or something, you know what I mean? It's like, I was really lucky. You know, those guys were my best friends. So I was really lucky in that sense, but
I'm friends with them. And to this day,
oh, yeah, those guys. I'm still in that then to the worst of us. I still, you know, I, it's sort of like, me and my best friend's project. And he's a great artist, like visual artists and graphic artists. And I write music. Like I, I played guitar, bass, and I programmed all the drums and write, you know, 99% of that stuff. It's sort of like my, you know, outlet for all this stuff that I want to hear and music. You know, I don't always get so it's pretty hectic crazy.
There's lots of death metal and rap stuff in there. You know? It's crazy. It's not exactly commercial. But you know, I have fun with it. But yeah, definitely still definitely still big time time with those guys. I talk to them pretty much every day.
Okay, well, so you tell me a little bit about the time that you did. I've been falling reverse like because you guys toured with Papa Roach and Asking Alexandria, and then you played like you said that louder than life and all these other big festivals? Rocklahoma Summer Fest? Like, you must have made a lot of connections through those touring.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I definitely, like met a lot of people that, you know, I was shot. I mean, for me, like, even you know, with with Ronnie Ronnie was sort of like a hero to me when I was a kid. He was sort of, you know, even that was shocking, like, working with someone like him, because I was watching him when I was, you know, like, eight years old man, like that situations video. And in high school, where they're all like, I don't know, if you remember for it, but they're
big. They basically like destroy an entire high school and like, it's pretty awesome. It's a good. But you know, I that was like, it was That was shocking for me that you know, you know, he became someone that I was around, just in a normal setting. And, you know, you get used to that stuff, too. You know, you're meeting all sorts
of people. And I remember when I was with him, it is at louder than life, I think, maybe two or three years ago, but him and Danny Worsnop from passing Alexandria, pretty, pretty close friends. And he came into the room. Ronnie, Ronnie, like to embarrass me a little bit. But he was I remember, he pointed at me when Danny Watkins, and this guy loves your music. And it's like, this guy loves you. He loves you, man. And I mean, it's
true. You know, I was like, yeah, like, I grew up listening to your music, you know, but it's sort of normal. Now, you know, the connections are essential. And I wouldn't be here without those connections. And that's why I always say, you know, I'm grateful for that experience, despite how, you know, it might have not ended the way that you know, anyone
wanted it to end. I don't think, you know, I'm very grateful for that time, because it sort of prepped me for, you know, now I'm on my own, and I'm fronting a band. So it's sort of prepped me for, you know, big stuff, I was playing big shows, and it was like, you know, that louder than life or Blue Ridge? You know, that was 4040 60,000 people's, you know, those those tickets sales or something like
that. So it was very, like, whoa, we you know, but it Yeah, it was it was all preparation, I think like, I mean, the universe, acting and preparing me for, you know, what was to come next. So,
different playing bass and singing back up and then being the frontman, right? I mean, that's like a totally different ballgame.
Yeah, well, I'll be honest with you, man, I'm not really like a bass player. I had to learn sort of how to play. Especially, you know, I think a lot of people will see falling in reverse as a sort of EMO, you know, classic emo band or whatever. But some of those songs are pretty technically difficult. A couple that come to mind are like born to lead and guillotine and some of those, you know, some of those are, like, um, I had a really, I had a strap. Luckily, I had COVID.
So I had like, nine months to, like, I practice every day, I definitely put, you know, 1000 hours easily into the instrument so that I could, you know, I really, it was imperative to me that I did a good job. So, yeah, I'm not a bass player. I became a bass player for that game, because, you know, I was I was brought in for my singing voice and for, for what it's worth to, I just learned how to sing too. I, I I've always been able, like it's there's a difference.
There's a difference between like, you can sing, and you know how to sing. And, you know, I could sing with orbit now. I know how to sing and back then even, you know, his parts that I was covering were very difficult. And, you know, I was fitting all that that gig was fitting a mold, sort of. And this gig is like being myself, I guess. Is that like, kind of makes sense? Like I had to, you know, you know, after the show, too, it's like, okay, well,
don't do this. And do. I didn't like me did that or do this differently? You know, and then when I, you know, finish these shows, like, I'm the person say, can I get more support here? Can, you know, can you help me with the vocals here? And, you know, I get to, you know, I get a chance to do things sort of my way, so to speak, and it's going good. And, you know, I'm, like, really happy with how everything's going so
well. But isn't Jay it's Jason's band. So doesn't he kind of directs us what he wants? Of course,
but you know, Jason isn't, isn't like that. Of course, it's, you know, it's his project, but he wants it to be a band. And being a band isn't getting directed by one person that's playing in a band. So in falling in reverse, I was playing.
Okay. Is that why you ended up leaving? Because you didn't want to be? You said, yeah, you have a falling out with Ronnie, or is it just it just didn't work out?
Yeah, I mean, I can't get. I mean, hopefully, for obvious reasons. I can't get into like, super deep detail. But yeah. You know, I were like, cool. Like, it's all good. But yeah, we sort of never mashed I guess, okay, but yeah, but Jason's so different. He wants it to be a band. And we he always says, like, it has to be fun. That's how he says it. First of all, it has to be fun. And there's nothing worse than when you're in a band. And you're like, walking on eggshells around people because
they're unpredictable. And, you know, just intense, like, like, intense energy all the time. But I'm when I'm done with this interview. I'm gonna go into my greenroom with my entire band, and we're all gonna hang out, everyone's gonna be cool. And we're gonna have a good time. We're gonna listen to music, we're gonna watch, you know, whatever we're gonna watch together or whatever. And we're friends. Like, primarily. Yeah, and that's, that's what's so
different. And it's not a you know, it's not my band or his band. It's our band. And it's just different man. Jason is is is different than other people that I've worked for, you know?
Yeah. Okay, sorry. One last question about Ronnie so fascinating. But the whole the whole feud with I think this is after you left the band, but I'm sure you know, you have connections and you know or you have an opinion on this. I don't know if you want to say but the whole feud with him and Sebastian Bach I find that so fascinating. Because they're both talking shit online to each other. And I'm looking at I don't know a lot about falling
in reverse. I'm looking at Ronnie's like, you know, like his rap sheet and stuff. I'm like, This doesn't seem like a guy that you want to fuck with. And Sebastian Bach is saying like, on or just you to rock and roll anytime. In person, man, like you name the time and the place and like, so I don't know, whatever happened to that. There? Was there going to be a fight. Like I heard some rumors that Ronnie knows some pretty
rough guys. And they were going to wait for Sebastian after a show and jump in or something like, Do you have any knowledge of this?
I don't have like direct knowledge of it. But what I will say is that, do you know what the basis of the argument is? Right. So they they because less laptops?
Yeah, that you guys were using laptops? So I guess you could call them you know, what are you using laptops? To for the vocals or not?
Yeah, so my opinion is is it Ronnie is right. And, you know, every band under the sun. I mean, the other problem with this is that it breaks the like, the fan to artists like immersion, I guess is the word or the maybe emergent illusion I guess. The like fans don't give a shit. If you use laptops or whatever you're using to make your show good. They care that the show is good. So while I think that he is right about the subject, you know he might be right about you know, all bands
use laptops. Why is this even an argument? He's right about that for sure. And it's crazy that like old heads are coming at him like that. I don't think that they're right in the situation. But all of them are wrong for breaking the like artists to the fan. Very. They don't need to know about the laptops, man. Like they don't want to they
don't care about that. They want to come I'm into your show, and all the people that like that matter that are like buying your stuff and coming to your shows and love your fucking band, they're not thinking about the laptops, you know what I'm saying?
Well, kind of, like, you don't want to have like a Milli Vanilli situation where like, the people on stage are just my mean. Or like, who was the latest one, there was some pop singer, she was singing, she got into a fight. And then like the music kept going. I mean, it's one thing to have, like, you know, backing vocals on a on a laptop or like, keyboard, you don't have a keyboard player or something
like that. But if it's like the full singer, singers, just my main, the, I don't understand the point of going to the concert that I could just listen to on my CD.
Sure, but there's also the atmosphere of the concert and all the all the fans and the events. And, you know, people at the end of the day, or even if a band is like terrible live, they're probably going to hear what they want to hear. And they're gonna have a great time because their favorite band is playing and they just want to see their favorite band. And like this whole discussion, going so far. I mean, Ronnie is
he is a hilarious guy. And he puts a passion in his music video and drop the piano on his head, man. He's funny. Like, he knows what
he's doing. So he's funny. He's not violent, though. He's not he's not somebody that Sebastian should be worried about.
Dude, I don't I don't think so. I mean, he says, he says crazy shit, but I think he's like, a normal nice guy. Deep down, you know, I don't think he's trying to fucking kill people. He's just, he's stirring it up. And, and going crazy. Because people love it do they're gonna watch it, they're gonna tune in, they're gonna, you know, they're gonna He's there's more people that are gonna find him and love him for just the bombastic shit. And like, he knows he's very smart.
He knows what he's doing with that stuff. But the the center of the argument, though, is, it doesn't really matter. For 95% of people who go into the concert, they don't care about the laptops, they won't even. It's so good. Now, you know, the technology so good that you're not even going to note the layman isn't going to notice what's on the computer and what's not. But Ronnie is the singer dude, he's singing. He's not faking anything.
Okay, well, that's good to know. Yeah. Yeah, he's,
he's super talented. And he's not, it's not big man. But, you know, there's a lot of, like, I would want my show to sound as good as it possibly could. Especially if there's a bunch of digital, you know, stuff in the background. That beeps it up, like, I want that. I'm not gonna, like I use tracks in my, like, when I was playing in local bands, I use that shit too. Because it sounds amazing. And I want to give the fans an amazing experience. There's nothing wrong with that.
You're talking about like effects that could change the voice, like the auto tune and stuff like that.
No, I'm talking like, like, sounds, you know, like, like, like, if you have, I don't like with my band at home or with our band here. We don't like to use a keyboard player live like to get the time. Or, you know, I'm saying
that's totally different than like, then having pre recorded lead vocals. I think that's different, even pre recorded background vocals. I don't think that's that bad. But you're right. I mean, I think some people were really curious about this, like Eddie trunk and stuff, they want everything to be live. And then other people, like, they don't care if it's all frickin pre recorded.
Yes, but all the respect to them and that sentiment, but like, their favorite bands are using tracks.
You know, like kiss and
I don't know, I don't know, for sure. I can't like I'm not gonna
pretty document well documented kiss uses at least some tracks
are like what was was the old old school version was like, Oh, we use the tape for the there was like, I can't remember what it's called. But all this bands on tapes is what they used to say or something like that. You know, that's been a thing for for, you know, 30 or 40 years, something like that. Like it's not new.
Interesting. You're right, though. It's like I feel like the fate would you call it the fan to band barrier. It's almost like I was having this conversation with another guest about how just we know too much information in the world. I mean, why do I know if you're a sports fan? But like, Why does Why do people need to know what the Pittsburgh Steelers salary cap issues are like? That it's not our business. Like we shouldn't leave the game and enjoy this football game,
man. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I percent of people that are football fans, like are interested in that shit. And that's, that's cool or whatever. But there's, like, no need to talk about that. I mean, this gets into, you know, personal lives to have, like, people don't need to know who I dated. And this, you know, I'm saying it's like,
unless they're famous then we weren't we probably
sure but you know, it's all like, like, keep that barrier and there's we we need to have like More space in the production side too. It's like, they don't need to know how your your, your backdrop is attached to the truss going across the stage. And why you know how many times you need to bold it before, like, you can put it back in the road kit. You know, it's all just too much. You're so right. There's, there's like
too much information out. And there's too many people that, oh, I mixed a band in a 300 cap room one time. This is all fake man. It's like, yeah, there's all the plenty of people that you know, think they know what's going on, too. They just don't. And, you know, I'll defend. You know, I'm totally willing to defend Rodney on that shit. Because, you know, he's generally speaking right about it, but I just think it should be talked about.
Yeah, no, absolutely. Okay, so moving on to the new Ben Flatland. Yeah. So Jason hook is so funny because I reached out to him when he right when he left Five Finger Death Punch. And I was like, Hey, if you want to come on my podcast, we can talk about your next project. This was in like, 2020 or whatever. My first started. And he goes, Yeah, sure, man. I'll let you know when I have some to promote. And now So finally, we then he still blew me off. But now we can talk
about his project at least. So talk about flat black and how it came together.
Yeah. So you know that the things lined up were I was out of a gig and he needed somebody and our negotiations were like, you know, I could do the job that I wanted to do, which was being the singer. And we started probably a year and a half, maybe about a year and a half ago, we started you know, he had plenty of material from his downtime, not being in the other band he was in. And we brainstormed with, you know, we worked with some producers. And we sort of stormed on it with a
couple of different people. And we we made the vocal producer and saj. So hush from raw if you're better than him on the show. Yeah, he's my, he's my man. He is very, very smart. But uh, yeah, I flew to his house for a week and a half. And I didn't even know the guy stayed at his house with it. This is like gambling and everything. I got to know him very quickly. Luckily, we did. But I sit, I sat in his home studio for about a week and a half. And then we we wrote the songs together with
instrumentals. And we meet him wrote songs together and finish them up. And yeah, that's that's pretty much where it went. And then Jason met the drummer RJ, Rob Pierce. RJ is his nickname. But he met him years ago. And they, you know, he was like, You're the drummer for my next band. And he said, Okay, and, you know, it was sort of history with them. So they've been together for a while, and then we threw reference, I think that was a dot coil from that. Olbes
Yeah, he's, he's cool, too. I've never met him, but I've watched He's really cool. He seems like a cool guy. But
that's, that's the bass players. Or
he was suggested by doc. And we met him headed off. And he's also a great singer, too, which I need for, you know, sort of, so I can breathe here and there during the set. So
his dad because it said in the press release that son of a legendary rock music photographer,
Henry deals with his dad and he's, you know, sort of, you know, if you're curious, you can go through his Instagram, but he's taken photos of, you know, a lot of a lot of people that are like then in big magazines, big productions. You know, he's, he's definitely, you know, that status of photographer. And, like, you know, he he's a super nice guy, too. We he came in took photos with us, and of course, they were immaculate. So perfect.
Yeah, but yeah, they the bad guys, though, the, you know, what's most important is we get along and we're living together, dude, it's tight. We're on the road. You know, it's, it's, it's not easy to get along with people that you're like, you don't really have space, right? But we, we do get along very well. And it makes me really hopeful because I really think that that's the downfall of every band is the relation, you know, relational stress. And
yeah, Hi, you guys. Yeah. Yeah, it's gotta be hard to be that in close quarters with people for that long.
Yeah, well, there's, you know, we have days off. And if you need to get away, you can get away like today, for example, I woke up earlier than the rest of the band. So I went to the venue early, I had breakfast by myself. And then I went to the gym by myself, and I worked out by myself and I had, you know, three or four hours before I had to interact with a single person, you know, you have options, there's, there's ways to mitigate it to create
space. And part of it is knowing, you know, what's knowing yourself up here, and how long you can handle things. And, you know, do I need some space, and I, you know, for me,
I like a moody person. So, and I wouldn't say that I'm mean or anything like that, but I just have to be careful with, you know, I have to sort of check myself and be like, Okay, maybe you need to take some time to walk and take some space, because you don't want to say something that's not you, you know, that you don't mean, or something like that. And, you know, part of its being, you know, aware of yourself and what you need for yourself. And, you know, there's people, sorry, go ahead.
No, I was gonna say so as Jason cuz he's a little bit older than you guys. So as he kind of like, is he like a big brother type? Or Is he is he more like a father figure to you? Or I mean, because he's not your he's, he's older than you guys are? I mean, like, why, like at least 20 years, right?
Yeah, but it's not something that ever really crosses my mind. You know? I guess it's like, I feel like I'm sort of little brother to everyone in the band. But that's not something that I ever really, like, I'm never consciously thinking about it, because I don't feel like you know, they don't make me feel this is like one thing. Other thing I love about my band is like I have, so I'm, like, respected by them. And like in other bands, and other bands, it's like, my age is constantly
referenced. So you're so young, you don't get it. You don't know anything, because you're so young. And like, that's cool. I get that. I understand. Like, I guess I've done that to other people in other situations. But, you know, I don't enjoy it. It's not like a good feeling to be like, said, Oh, you're young and dumb every five seconds. And no one in my dad does that to me.
You know, there's sort of a respect between us and you know, he might be, you know, there might be a difference in age, but I don't feel it, I guess. And I mean, we all live weights together and shit. You know, he's, those guys are fucking, they got the youthful vigor man, they're ready to, they're ready. They lift weights with me, they go, they go hard with me. And we stay up late. And we nobody parties really, like even I'm, I'm a little bit young, but like, I don't even drink anymore
or anything. So we don't party or, or anything like that. But we definitely, like get up to the antics. And, you know, my favorite part is just we just listen to music, where we play the show, like 30 minutes before we just slam music super loud. And I love like death metal and stuff that most people probably like 1% of the population actually enjoys. So I'm always exposing them to like, super crazy technical, like, that's not all that no one listens to.
And I'm like, we got to we got to get some of this in the songs guys. Like, this is so sick, isn't it? And they're pretty open. I mean, it's, I think it's hard for like old heads to, like, hear new stuff and be like, Oh, like this is new and different. But like they're pretty open and like, I will show them, you know, pretty crazy stuff. And they're like, Oh, that's cool. I like that part or something like that, you know,
like, Tell me some bands that you are interested in, that they didn't know about.
My favorite band is called Shadow of intent. It's like a I think they call it symphonic blackened death color or something like that. It's, it's it's pretty crazy. It's It's wild. And I love like deathcore vocals like I love crazy. Like, you can't understand what they're saying. I love that. So, yeah, that and like I really like a board which is like a death metal band from the 90s and to 1000s and White Chapel to is one of my favorites
and Chelsea Grin. Sort of, you know, the MySpace deathcore era is the stuff that I really like, that's what they call it. But yeah, I like super, super heavy stuff. And, and, and they like, you know, they're more of like, you know, Jason loves Van Halen. And, you know, we're we listened to lots of like, You know what, when you're in a rat and stuff bands like that, and they expose me that stuff, and I hear stuff that I like in it too, because, you know, those bands were huge
because they had songs. And death metal will never be huge because they never have song. But I still love it. Like, I can't deny that I let you know. I don't know, it's like the banana Laffy Taffy do. Like everyone hates it, but like, I'm not gonna lie. I kind of fucking love it. I know.
I hate that one, too. Yeah.
Yeah, most people do.
Yeah, that's funny. No, but that's yeah, you can bring those elements into because I think that's what's cool. But I've only heard two songs, obviously from the bank is only two out. But the song lack of respect? I mean, that's great. Talk about that song. And what is that about? Exactly? Is it just a general? Like, it can mean whatever you want it to mean? Or is that about somebody in particular?
Oh, mean, you know, I think it would be easy to say that spark controversies, things like that. But I think the and the, the other band members throughout our careers and experience, we sort of have a lot of, you know, parallels between us of, you know, moments where, you know, we've gotten that sort of lack of respect that is a coined in the song and, you know, that for me, I had many avenues of my struggle of trying to make this a reality
of a career. You know, I've been pushed down where, you know, I've been made smaller, and that that's what it's about, it's about, it's about, like, sort of the oppressive force of you're trying to like, sprout your wings and fly, right? And like, you're, you're
like you are, you're able to do like, you feel like you have a talent. You're just trying to convince the world.
You got it. And, for me, yeah, it was always, I always knew that. It was in me, you know, and I took, I did other things to try to get my foot in the door in any way that I could. But, you know, I was always, you're the young guy, you're, you got to, you got to pay your dues. There was always I always wasn't, I was never respected. And until now, really, and I never got, I never got the respect that I felt I
deserved. And I know that other members of the band, and their experience in there long, longer than me, you know, their longer careers, they had the exact same feelings. And I think part of the reason we get along so well, just because of those parallels. And, you know, it's just, it's pretty strange how many stories we have in common. Where, you know, we're sort of the easygoing people, and we just get like, absolutely shit on
every turn. Book, you know, it's like, but yeah, I've been pushed down many times, and I know the other guys have. So that's all I really spilled out, you know, just a times you have the writer's block, and it takes months to write a song, but that one was just,
yeah. So how do you deal with that lack of disrespect? Because, or lack of respect, excuse me, because I feel like it's the same thing for me. It's like, I feel like I'm good at this at podcasting, but it's like trying to convince other people trying to convince publicists and bands. It's like, No, I'm good. I'll I'll do a good interview. Yeah,
um, I don't think I dealt with it in the past. Well, and I guess, my way of dealing with it now is getting it out music, but I was sort of always a pushover. When I've been younger and working with other people. And I always, you know, I always said, okay, okay, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. You know, I was always that guy, because I didn't want to cause stress or you know,
cause relational issues. But, you know, you have to stand up for yourself at a certain point, you can't just take that forever, or you'll you will be that forever. And you will be you if you just take the shit man, you're gonna get shit on. Like, you're you have to, you know, you don't have to, you don't have to be an asshole. But like, you have to either remove yourself from the situation or, you know, rise to the occasion.
And for me, it was, you know, I've been writing songs for a long time, but when this started coming together, it was all just like the catharsis was just, it was like, this is everything I've always wanted to say. But I've just never I never had the strength or confidence to say it. Now. I do, but it took it was a lot of suffering. You know, can you get there and I Messed up a lot, man. But you know, you can mess up a lot and still end up Okay, on the other side. But yeah, that's how I
dealt with it wrong. But now I dealt with it, I think correctly, and I feel a lot better. And you know, I'm not going to bed. You know, you know, I'm not stressing when I'm going to bed, I'm sleeping soundly and I feel good even about the mistakes. You know,
that's, that's amazing that you're figuring this all out so young, because it took me like 40 years, and you're learning learning the shit in your 20s. That's amazing. And that sounds like that's how you got this gig. Right? It's because you said no, I don't want to play bass. I'm a singer.
Yes, it really is. It really is part of it. And
just stick to your guns. It's kind of a lesson there. Right?
Yeah, if you're really good at something, keep getting better at it. And you if you know, you're good at it, like, don't listen to that shit when people are trying to tell you that. Oh, you're not good enough. Man. People literally said that to me that you're not good enough. Really literally.
I already say man, it's blew me away. I was like, because I wasn't, you know, when they said, Oh, we want you to interview the singer. I was like, Okay, let me check out his stuff. And I was like, well, this this guy can Okay, let's do this. Like, I'll have him on my show. Like,
I appreciate that. And then, but But yeah, people definitely said that to me. When I was when I was younger, all the time. It's like, Well, why don't you do a different kind of music? Well, why don't you you could you could go back to school, you're so good at school, you know, stuff like that. If you really are confident in something, and you're really good at it. Don't Don't give up on it.
Did you have people also telling you that you were good, and that you were a good singer that you should pursue that?
Course. Yeah. But you know, that stuff is not nearly as loud in your brain as, as the people you love and trust and the people that you you know, you, you can fight and saying, Hey, man, like, I don't know if this is the right way to go.
Yeah, well, I'm glad that you stuck with it. And obviously, you're kicking ass. You're an abandoned Jason hook. You guys are opening up for huge bands. And I think it's just going to continue to grow. When is the album coming out? There's two singles out now. But
yes. I don't know if I'm at Liberty. But I will say that there is a new song coming out in the middle of next month. But the whole album is going to be coming out at the beginning of next year. Probably like January, February, hopefully closer to January. Things go the way that I would like to go. But yeah, definitely early next year. First Quarter.
Cool. Yeah. And then lack of respect, song and Halo are both out. Halo is really cool, too. It's heavy, but it's also kind of melodic, which kind of sounds like a theme with the music.
Yeah, of course. I mean, I want to rope. I want to rope people in and, you know, get them going on the singing and, you know, show them what we can do when when we want to get heavy. So, you know, we love heavy music, but we also love songs. So what's most important that is, is that it's a song and that there's something to hold on to even lack of respect. That heavy song has a sing scene chorus that, you know gets stuck in your head that you can sing along to that people can relate
to. So yeah, that's definitely the priority.
Yeah, very cool. I mean, do you feel like you like your band and yourself? Or you guys the next generation of rock because these older guys I mean, like we talked about, like kiss I mean, kiss is retiring. So somebody's got to fill these stadiums. Is it going to be you?
Yeah, I don't care if I get shipped for but the answer is absolutely. Because if you look at the fascinating thing on on all this is on all the whole rock music thing is you know, we're always talking about oh, rocks dying, metal is dying. It's all dying. It's dying. Dying is all you hear.
And, you know, when when we were young, that festival, you're familiar, or sick, new world, those biggest festivals that they did where they took all the most popular bands from 1520 years ago and put them all on one bill. That's cool. That's great. I would love to see all those bands and the same day. But like, where is the young band? There's not a single young band. There's like two or three all the festivals that you see the Rocklahoma rockville, it's like corn Nine Inch Nails
Slipknot every time. Yeah, that's what you want to see. I understand that's what people want to see. But there's room there's room for new blood and that's what I want to be in the other guys. We're you know, we're all very on the same page with that and and Jason says this thing which I love, and he says I I see what everyone else is doing. And I want to just do the opposite of what everyone
else is doing. Because, I mean, I listened to lots of I love, like metal and but I love metal core to that sort of 2000s to, I mean, it's still going on now, but pretty much every band sounds exactly the same, you can pick, you know, a song from their newer records, and they all sound you know, it's, you know, MIDI 808 hi hat. You know, sing songy bursts into the epic chorus, to be honest with you, I think everyone is ripping off Ronnie, actually. But they're nice. There's, there's like a
desperate need. We're an actual band, dude, we play guitar. Like, we have actual musicians. And like, you know, we're actually playing, like, we're playing fucking rock, metal, rock and metal. And we're actually playing, it's an actual, it's not like, it's not super digital. Like, we're using real abs. And like, we're using the to the we got the flashy to
bass pedals. And I'm actually singing all this shit, man, I trained for 1000s of hours on my vocals to get them in, like the tip top shape that could possibly be in so that I could deliver this shit every single night. And the other guys, it's the same thing like these guys are, are like, world class musicians do, like we have put in the work. We are actual, highly skilled musicians. And, you know, I'm sure people are gonna clip that in. So what to
do. So, I think I get to say it about myself when I've spent, you know, 1000s of hours doing it. And like these people on the internet, haven't spent five minutes on anything. So like, I think I have the right to say that. So yeah, and if you don't believe me come to a show. You know, it's like you'll see. It's a it's a real band. And we're going to make a mark because we don't sound like everybody else. And it's different. And it's it's sort of it has a touch of the past of what you've heard
before. But it's refreshing. It's new. And, you know, even singers, I think a lot of singers sound the same. I think a lot of people are trying to do oh man, I can't remember his his. His name. Adam from Three Days Grace. I think a lot of people are trying to sound like him. And, you know, it was Eddie Vetter in the 2000s. You know, everyone was trying to sound like Eddie better and and now I think it's sort of Three Days Grace or Chester Bennington. Everyone's trying to sound like
that. I don't sound like any of those guys. You know, I don't I don't. I try my best to sound like me. And I'm not trying to you know, fit fit a mold. So it's like, we are ourselves. We're real big. Thank you. I think it's gonna work out. Yes,
I think it's gonna be great. Well, I fucking love it. Love your attitude. It's great. I'll let you get out of here at last thing. I just always end promoting a charity. Something good for the world? Is there a charity or cause that you want to promote here at the end?
Yeah, for sure. I would say I would say Make A Wish is is the number one for me. Okay. That stuff means a lot to me. And I think it makes a really big difference and, you know, in those kids lives, so.
Okay, cool. I'll put that in the show notes along with the flat black I think I think you guys have a website or a Spotify.
It's a flat black music.com all the merch is out there. All the tour dates. Cool. Whatever you need. All right,
cool. I hope to catch a show if you guys come to Phoenix. Oh, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, definitely send me a message and we'll make sure you get in there. No problem.
Okay, thanks. See you later. Well, thanks.
Have a good one. You too.
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