Heavy stars, rock and rolling through the cool guitars. Chucks got the questions, digging so sharp, peeling back layers, head in the heart.
Hey, Chuck, hey, Tracy, this is amazing. Look, took six years to get you on my show. Here I am. Yeah, there you are. No, it's funny because, like, I had ace on a couple times, and I was there was somebody, I won't call him out, but there was somebody who got mad at you for, like, not doing their show. And I was telling ace, I was like, Dude, you just got to be patient. Like, and sure enough, I said, Well, I said, One day Tracy is going to do my show. Just watch and here you are.
I love it. Yeah, it's, you know, the internet world brings us a little too close to each other sometimes. Yeah, no,
for sure, you also so your friends with my buddy adika. You played with him, with a, well, I think he was in LA guns for like a minute, and then you
guys with Gilby, yeah, that's right, yeah,
that was an interesting because it was you him, Gilby, and then Eric Singer from Kiss, I'm like, God, how did I not know about this? And it's almost like you guys could have called the band something else, because it was basically like a super group,
right, right, right, yeah, yeah. And nobody knew about us. It was awesome. We just go out and do these little club gigs and stuff and have a great time.
Yeah? But there was no, there was no ego, like you weren't saying, like, Hey, we should call this like, Gilby and guns. And Eric Singer is like, you know, he's not trying to get his name on it. You guys, are you? And Eric Singer both are just like, Yeah, that's fine. I'll just be in Gilby Clark's band.
We got to go play a bunch of great music and get paid 100 bucks tonight. It was fun. Yeah, that's
cool. You've had so many, like, amazing gigs and stories like that.
I like to play the guitar, yeah, just boils down to that, you know, it's my it's my best friend, you know,
right? But sometimes you, you say, you take, you take a break, like, you kind of get burned out or whatever, and
not for very long. But, yeah, I mean, sometimes when I'm home, like after a tour or something like that, where I won't even pick up the guitar for a couple weeks and then, but it always comes right back.
Yeah. Do you listen to music for fun? Because there's some, there's so many musicians I interview that they go now I don't really listen to music. Like, I think it was Joel hoekstro saying, like, when, even when he goes to the gym and when he drives, it's just silence. I'm like, That is weird, because he said he listens to music all day, so he wants a break from
it. Um, no, I listen to music in the background, especially when I'm driving. Is
it mostly older stuff, or do you listen to new stuff, too.
I listen to old music, you know, that's really, really my thing. And you know, most people my age, the music they listen to now is old music, yeah. I mean, you know, I'll acknowledge when something's good. But I mean, nothing recaptures the music of, you know, being a teenager in your early 20s, you know? Yeah, do
you discover, like, new old music? Because, like, I know you have this song everyone always brings up. You say, runaway train, right? You discovered that, like, it was a was it blind Blake, and you kind of stopped being from that
Exactly, yeah. I mean, there are some kind of retro stuff, like the surfer jets, my friend, charmese band from Canada. They're amazing. You know, surf band. There's a band in Denmark called Java skull that they're probably my favorite band. I don't, wouldn't consider them new, but, you know, but they have all the right elements. And I don't know, Blackberry smoke, man. I mean, you know that's, that's a legit band, yeah, did
you go to concerts as a fan? Or do you just, you see enough like working on and you see these bands, we play with them, right?
Um, I think that if there's, like, something coming around that I really, really like, I love that band, and I know I can stand there for 7590 minutes because I love the music so much I'll go, or if someone's doing like a local club gig or something like that, I'll go and hang out. I always go out and support the kids that I know that play in LA, you know, there's some really good ones
here. But music is a psychological thing, you know, it's, it's a thing, and the live experience, you know, if it's not Van Halen or Led Zeppelin, I'm really not that interested. I mean, interesting.
So if you, I mean, what do you think about the cover bands that there were these tribute bands that, I mean, some of the zeppelin. And Ben halen ones I've seen like, they're pretty close to the roof. It's kind of fun to see that, I think,
oh yeah, nerd, halen sticks out to me. When Ralph had his version of atomic punks, that really stuck out. Mr. Jimmy the the Jimmy Page guy, you know, I will go see him any opportunity. I mean, he just, it's scary, you know, how zeppy they are, you know, I like the tribute bands. I mean, I even like, like, Def Leppard tribute bands, you know, it's like, you know, they, oftentimes, the tribute bands care more than the original bands. So, like, the stuff sounds really good, and they
really play the part. And, you know, yeah, I, I, you know, I always wanted to do a tribute band that was a cross between, like, Zeppelin one, Zeppelin two and the late yard birds, you know, kind of like this, this Jimmy Page era thing, you know, like, I always wanted to do that, you know, you know, I'm Definitely not against paying tribute to musicians you love, and a lot of the bands, they make a lot of money. Yeah, we
were in raiding the rock vault. I mean, that's kind of a thing, right? It is that's a tribute band.
Yeah, absolutely. That was really fun, and I made a lot of money. It's
pretty lucrative. I saw it. I don't know if they were there that night, but yeah, it was a good show. Yeah,
it's really good. You know, the singers are top notch, the musicians are top notch, and the show is top notch. Yeah, yeah, really lucrative,
yeah. It's always interesting, too, to me the bands that they sound so much like a band, but then they deny it, like, I remember Kingdom Come back in the day, and then Greta Van Fleet. Like, I went and saw Greta Van Fleet. I was like, God, these guys sound so much like Zeppelin, like, if they just did one cover, they would kill it, but they just refused to do it right, at least when I saw him. That's
a weird thing. It's kind of like, you know, when in Bay says he doesn't know who Richie Blackmore is, or helmet, or a helmet said they never heard Black Sabbath or, you know, like, you know, that always strikes me as odd, because you're celebrating this music, you know, I mean, when you're when you're with your influences or your inspiration or your thievery, there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing to be ashamed of. You know, it's a funny position to take. Yeah,
I mean, like, I love that, and I love that, the two. And, you know, you're not in a tribute Ben, so you you can pull from all your influences. Like, I think your song, the new song, the grinder, I feel like that with the long breaks, to me that had, like, a zeppelin vibe. I don't know if that was on until, I mean, that that's such
a zeppelin one kind of arrangement, you know, like, like, the way that it goes up and down and it goes from slide to, like, you know, kind of just some rad gas guitar, and Phil's just singing like a monster right now. You know, that's my favorite song.
Yeah, that was, that was a good one. I'm glad I could bring up one that wasn't runaway train. And, and also, what about, tell me about the song, hit and run, because I wanted to say it almost kind of sound, it had kind of like a, like a happy, dark vibe, like, kind of something from, like the 80s, like the Smiths or the cure or something, yeah, yeah.
And you describe it perfectly. It, it is a happy and dark song at the same time. You know, vibe wise, for sure, that's Johnny song that he brought in, and it's so good. He brought in the music. And, you know, as soon as I tracked him and his rhythm guitars, you know, I got to go to work, you know, he left, you know. And then I'm like, okay, you know,
what am I going to do here? So that was like, really, like, I love when the guys bring in tunes, because, because then it doesn't start for me, it starts from someone else, and then I just get to fill in all the blanks. And kind of, you know, what would I do to this song mentality, as opposed to, what am I doing with this song? That's how I approach my stuff. But other people's stuff I have, I feel like I have a lot more
freedom for some reason. But that song is very, you know, Rem, you know, kind of meets the cult, kind of meets, you know, Chris Isaac, you know, it's kind of all over the place, and that's the band's collective favorite song on the album. Oh,
okay, yeah, that's cool. I love that one. I mean, they're all good, and they're all so different. Like, this singles, Lucky motherfucker. I mean, I don't know how anybody couldn't like that song. It's like, so funky and and just catchy and, I mean, I don't know like if people, I don't know if, see, I like eclectic like, I love appetite and I love Use
Your Illusion. So to me, I don't know if a die hard la guns, who only like the first album or first Yeah, if I don't feel like this, but I loved it,
yeah? I mean, that's the thing with La guns. You know, you're either gonna get what you expect or you're gonna get the exact opposite of what you expect from album to album. Because, you know, I can't allow myself as a writer to do the same things over and over again. You know. I have to eventually step outside my safe zone, and, you know, do some other things that I love to do. And this is that record, you know, this is the, you know,
we're coming up for air. It's generally a happier, more up tempo swinging air album than than any of our other albums. And the grinder is probably the heaviest song, and there's not even one bar chord on it. It's all slide guitar, you know. So
that's cool. You said Johnny contributed a song. Did ace contribute any songs, or any riffs or anything, or
he didn't on this one, and I'm not sure why, he was busy doing other things. I asked him, you know, a few times, like, Hey man, you know, if you got anything, get it to me, and he's like, Yeah, I will, yeah, I will. And then, you know, Ace is busy, yeah, he's
a busy guy. And so you do, I didn't realize this, because I heard you say this in an interview that you don't really write the lyrics, like, very rarely. I think there was one, a big house, la gun, so some other bits and pieces. But you typically just do the guitars that
I do all the music, you know, with the drummer. And that's always how it's kind of been. You know, I remember being in my mom's house when I was about 17 or 18, and I had a Tascam four track and a drum machine, and that's how I've always written, is along with a drum machine. And then now I write with a real drummer, you know, for forever now, but, yeah, it's just like jamming, jamming with yourself and a drummer. You know, there's nothing best, you know. That's why I love Jack White so much.
You know the deal with with with the white stripes, it's like, I don't need anybody else, no, but he can sing. I can't sing. Yeah?
No. I love Jack White. I love his solo stuff and the white stripes. Oh yeah, you work with for drummers. You're speaking of Adam Hamilton, who, producer, drummer, former Ellie guns member, been on this show. It's so funny, because I did an interview with him years ago, and it would every like couple of months, somebody would comment and say, I love Adam. Adams the nicest guy. I was like, wow, this guy. How is he
so belo? Like, everybody, like, no one says anything bad about like, people like, love him. Like, he really is one of the nicest guys. Yeah, I
mean he, he's genuinely a good person. You know, in the core, we have fun talking shit, though.
Oh, really. Okay, yeah, yeah. Don't
think Adam and I are behind the scenes. You know, motherfucking everybody. We're human, yeah, but, but Adam is probably the nicest person that I know, like he, he's the one that that that means well to everybody, and, you know, doesn't, doesn't, doesn't ever want to be a dick, or even, and, you know, and he's got a lot of right to be a dick, you know, he, he goes through a lot in his in his life, you know, and, but
he keeps it even keel. He's so talented, and he's so funny, and he's very inspirational for me as a writer. And we write all this stuff together. And you know, we did the two Sun bomb records together, and the black bird angels together. And, you know, back in the day, we did the Waking the Dead album together, where he played bass,
but we wrote all that stuff. So having him as my writing partner is the greatest, you know, for lack of a better word, the biggest blessing in my musical career, really, wow,
that's awesome to hear. Yeah, I love that. And then yeah, for people who don't know, I mean, he plays the drums in the studio, and then you have Sean doing the the live drum.
That's right, that's, our that's how we do it.
Yeah, there's a, there's a lot more bands that are doing stuff like that now, and it seems to work out for everybody.
Well, yeah. I mean, I think with, you know, every especially when you're adults, you know what? I mean, everybody kind of has their own life and their own separate kind of thing away from the band, as opposed to, like, from 1984 to 1990 maybe there wasn't a day we didn't really go without playing. You know, either we were on tour, we were in the studio, or we were rehearsing and writing constantly together, and that's a good way to kill
any relationship. It's just to be together all the time, and this way, you know, everybody knows their role and has their
separate adult life. And you know, and I'm just here, just working my ass off constantly, you know, making sure that everything's in place, all the gears are aligned, and making sure we make great records and putting together great live shows and, you know, crossing the t's, dotting the i's, you know, I didn't used to do any of this, you know, I used to just write, play live and eat pizza like that was my whole life for,
you know, like 25 years. I. Um, but a lot of things fell through the cracks, man, a lot of lot of bad shit happen when you don't pay attention. So now I learned my lesson is expensive lesson. So
you're kind of like the manager of the band and, oh no,
we have great management. We have Tim Heine and Brian Coleman. But yeah, I mean everything, everything goes through me, you know. I mean I write the checks, you know. I mean, I do the budgets with our, our business manager, you know, and that gets shared with everybody, you know. Everybody knows what's up all the time. Everybody's happy. Do
you like that? Having kind of being in control, be having it be your band, versus being a part of a band and having to kind of negotiate, or just, I guess you could also say the third option be kind of being like, when you're in gilberies and you're just kind of like a hired gun, and just, Hey, it's your thing. I'm
just playing guitar. Um, I did like it. You know when, when you know, this kind of noticed how much stuff had fallen through the cracks over the years. You know, it seemed like it would be really boring, but now, since you know, all my focus is on this band, then now I focus from top to bottom, and what a difference it makes. You know, when you pay attention to your own business,
interesting. So what advice would you have for people starting out in bands? Because there's just so many horror stories of doing these interviews of the music business and people getting screwed over and stuff, and just like losing royalties and publishing and all and all this and stealing the name of the band, and all, you know, like, is there advice that you would have to younger bands?
You know, yes, there. There really is. And this goes for any kind of artist or somebody that creates anything, or, you know, copyright something, is be nice and be open minded and listen to the people around you, but know that you're not going to change your mind on a decision that you've made. You know. Don't let don't let people you know kind of alter your perception. If you really believe in your in your journey and what you want to do,
your vision. In a band situation, there should always be one guy that and that guy should be a really cool, nice guy, you know, otherwise, that guy is going to have a lot of problems, you know, but, but generally, you know, unless, like, let's say I was still playing with Rob Gardner and Danny Tull and Dave Melford and these guys that I started playing with when I was real Young, you know, that would be more of a collective kind of vision, where, where everybody grew up together, you know,
like, physically, mentally, musically, you grow up together. Well, then that is really a special scenario, like, for instance, Alex and Eddie, or Vinnie Paul and dinebag. You know, these are guys. You know, when you grow up together, you have each other's back, and
that's just the way it is. But when your band is not like that, where you know you have members coming and going, and it's your vision and all these things, you got to protect yourself, and you can't let other people take over really important tasks and things like that, especially if their only vision is that, like I love being in this band and I want to make money, right? Because it's not really their band, but they love the band. They love being in the band.
They love contributing to the band, but you didn't grow up together. You didn't create the vision together. You know, they don't really feel like they have anything to lose because they weren't in the band before. What I mean and and, you know, they have their own, you know, motivations for doing gigs, you
know. And sometimes it works out great, and sometimes they really sparkle and add something, and other times they snore in the hallway of the bus, you know, eight hours a night, and it's like you're fucking out of here, you know, snoring.
You fire somebody for snoring. Oh, absolutely,
you know, somebody's keeping the whole crew and band up all night. You know, it's not necessarily that person's fault, but it can't be had. And that's an extreme case, right? Like, that's like a place where you have to make a decision, like, wow, you know, does the benefit, you know, outweigh this horrible lack of sleep everybody's getting and everybody's turning into a gross human being because of it.
Yeah, it's an extreme case, but it's happened, yeah? So now, not just in my band, bro, for sure. So at this point, you found a way to coexist with Phil. It seems like you guys are getting along great. You. You've making, arguably some of the best music that you guys have both made in your career is the last few albums. I think. I mean, is there something that you've done you're doing differently, or is it just getting those other pieces out of the band and now you guys can coexist better?
Well, yeah, I think Phil and I like, we're talking about growing up together. You know, over 30 years, we've definitely now grown together. You know what I mean? We've grown together. We've learned together. We've lost together, you know, so many things. And by getting rid of toxic people who always seem to get in between us, we're a very, very happy
partnership, a happy band. We're a family, you know, and that includes our crew members and our management and our agent and our business manager our label. Everybody's the same family. Everybody is looking in the same direction. Wow,
that's great. That's criteria. Because it it sounds like, I mean, it's work, because I feel like, well, I don't know, because, then again, I feel like vicious circle that's one of my favorite albums that you guys did. And I'm guessing that you weren't getting along good at that point, but somehow you pulled out a good record, in my opinion,
well, oddly enough, you know, we were getting along that I was, I was in another band. I was in this band killing machine that that poly door sign, you know. So I had la guns, and I had this other fresh, new, shiny band that I was putting my time into and, and that's right, that's when, when, when we fired Steve Riley, you know. So we had bones in there, and Myron grombacher was in there, and Nikki beat our original drummer, all in there, working with the guys to create
songs. So what had happened was they had finished the record, and I hadn't played one note on it, and I heard it, and I thought it was great. Yeah. I was like, This is fucking great, you know? So we sent it in anyways, you know, we sent the album in and and immediately, Davidson, our a and our guy, the president label. He's like, What is this? Yeah, I lied through my teeth. Man, like, I'm like, it's great, you know, it's like, it's like, Come on, let's know those
songs. He's like, you're not on this album, and you did not write any of the these songs, and I'm like, fuck. So we threatened to drop killing machine if I didn't go in and write all, you know, bunch, big batch new songs and play on everything. So I did, and all the heavy stuff that's on there, I brought in, oh, okay, like, like, face down, because I love that song. No, actually, oddly enough, I did not right, face down. That was Mick, okay, you
know. But killing machine, and killing machine was a collaboration between me and Kelly and but, like, kill that girl who's in control, facing the dragon, you know, I, you know, we actually went out of the recording studio into a
rehearsal studio. We went into Cole studio, and it's funny because JJ Blair owned Cole studio, and I didn't know that, and he's just an amazing producer, but we went to his studio while we still have the recording studio locked out to finish these five songs I had went back to Fourth Street recorders, recorded them with, you know, different drummers, the same drummers, didn't play on everything, and then we took all the tapes over to Red Zone Studios in Burbank so I could do
overdubs on All the other stuff that was already been recorded, because this guy, Dennis dagger, he is, he's, like, my favorite guitar engineer, so went over there, finished that stuff up, but undeniably, you know, just, I wish somebody else would have mixed it. I think the mix is a little weak, but, but, yeah, that that that as an album package, you know, wow. The tunes are great. That sun fade away. Mick plays this little guitar solo on it, just it gets my my soul every time I listen
to it. You know, cool record. Yeah.
I love it, yeah. Do you guys ever, would you ever do like, a deep cut from that album? Or, like, do you ever just add in other deep cuts through
we do killing machine live. Sometimes it'll be like, we've already played for an hour and a half and the crowd still has energy. And then somebody on stage and go killing machine like, god damn it, okay, you know, because it's like, it's, it's the fastest, heaviest, hardest song to play. And kind of, you know, 90 minutes into a set to like, you know, bust that out authentically. You know, you know that's the end of
the so you have a lot of songs that you could just you you the whole band knows it. You could just draw from different Okay, wow, yeah, we
really do. And even Sean does at this point. You know our drummer, he's been in the band for a long time now. And. And you know, he'll throw out songs like, Hey, we've never played this. Let's do it. Like, hold on, let me listen. Yeah, okay, let's do it, you know, so, yeah, I mean, that's the greatest part of the band is, you know, aside from Phil and I, Ace and Johnny and Sean and Adam, love LA guns. And they're familiar with all the music, and they listen to all that music.
So, you know, we do get to throw curve balls here and there live. And it just adds to the, you know, the very fun time we have.
Is there any song that you feel like, like, if you had a magic wand, you could make this song a bigger hit or more popular? Is it a song that you think that should have been bigger, that wasn't. I
think if let you down, came out, like, I don't know, any other time when people were paying attention to rock music, it could have been, I don't even know, you know, as soon as we released that during the pandemic, just there's two videos. There's like a weird video, and there's like a lyric video, and the reaction we got was insane. And like, whoa. And we all knew that there was something about that song, because we released it, you know, way ahead of the album.
You know, it was kind of this song, you know, in a weird time, you know, it was written in March of 2020, when I was stuck in Denmark. And, you know, talk about an email record. You know, recording. It was just like going back from forth between me and Adam and and Phil and Mitch Davis, Phil's partner. And, you know, I was just spending time in this little cabin on the the west coast of Denmark in Wilson.
It's like a little resort, summer time place where my, my ex's family owned this, this little bit of property, and they had this little, tiny black tar cabin. And I would just bring my recording here and there, you
know, and spend hours. And that was the one song that was the first song that came out of there, and it was so dark, yeah, it is, and people attached to it in a way that I don't feel like any of our other songs, of connective people quite that, that way, so that, like, that's one that's, I
feel like, yeah, I wondered. I thought, when I heard that, I thought it should have belonged in a movie, like it sounded like it should have been part of the soundtrack. It would have been the perfect soundtrack for, like, a horror movie or something, oh
yeah, yeah, or a villain movie, you know, something like that. And we don't play it live, because it's so fucking depressing, you know. I mean, it's like, you know, Sex Action, okay, don't baby, yeah, no, we did it a couple times, and it's like, wow, that that's, you know, that doesn't feel nice,
yeah? I guess I get that yeah, because people come to an LA gun show, they want to, they want to hear the fun party songs and the fact, like, I like, when you play speed, I love that song. That's fun, yeah, yeah. Like,
that's permanent in the set. We can't, not ever, not do speed, but, but people really respond well to the kind of like, like, gone honey, over the edge, of course, you know, that's very big, dramatic song, you know. So we have a few, but we just try to do a couple live and not, not bring it that far down, you know. Because, you know, we have some pretty fucking suicidal music, you know, we just leave it on the records. You know, it's like, that's, that's what records are
for. You know, you get it out there. You don't have to do it live. Do you
have people that come up to you after the shows, though, and say, Hey, this song really get me, got me through a tough time, or really resonated with me. And, I mean, your emails is that, I'm assuming that's some of those emails that were personal emails,
yeah, yeah, yeah. Still to this day, you know, a lot of stuff came out of the Iraq war. You know, on paper, you know, letters that we would get from soldiers and and the the families, the soldiers, how their how, all the LA guns music to that point, which was really before, well, let's see, it would have been, yeah, like, like, right as Hollywood Vampires was coming out, but, but everything you know, from no mercy, got played by people that you would not expect, like, all
over the world. Just like this song just gives me so much energy to get through these times and stuff like that, you know, stuff that you know. I mean, Ballad of Jane That was obvious, you know. But one way ticket to love, you know, so many people related to that song for different reasons, you know. And the the saddest part of that song is it, it's about heroin addiction. That was written by our former singer, you know, he wrote those lyrics. And it's about a love affair with heroin,
you know. And, but people interpret songs and lyrics the way they want to, you know. But, yeah, so we do go there, you know what I mean, like, you know, we get dark. Yeah, do you think that's
hypocritical of the media? Because whenever you hear these, you know, the we mentioned heroin addiction, I mean, it's, it's obviously a huge problem in the world, and so many, especially in music, like Taylor Hawkins, I think is one of the most recent. Chris Cornell Chester, the list goes on and on and on right and then. But you know, you had some anxiety, and you were dealing with anxiety, and you dealt with it, and to your credit, you didn't take heroin, you didn't
take a pill. You could have probably taken a Xanax, and that probably would have eased your anxiety. And then they attack you, and I'm like, Well, wait a minute, you you're so Oh, this is such a tragedy with Taylor Hawkins, oh, what could we do? Well, maybe you could not attack people who are trying to deal with anxiety and not use drugs,
right, right? There's only seven people out of a million that attacked me, you know, and, no, not at all. Well, that's good. I got, I got, I got letters from, like, mental institutions, psychiatrists, psychologists, you know, that was the biggest story la guns ever had. And the amount of people that reached out to me, supporting what I did and understanding what happened, was
incredible, you know. And you know, these, these chuckle fucks that you know, live on a farm that have never had, you know, what's the word? You know, a moment of friction in their life that can't relate to the realities of the big world. Those are the ones that that talk shit, you know, and they're the ones drinking Big Gulps that are this big, you know, with diabetes, going, Oh, life's great, you know. And I don't
care about them, you know. And every human on this planet is going through something, you know, period, you know, I don't care how shiny our Instagram accounts are, you know, I don't care about your Ferrari. I don't care about any of it. You know, everybody's going through something,
yeah, now, very well said, Yeah. I just, I deal with that myself too. I mean, I just feel like, I feel like it's not even also the media. It's just Yeah, it's these chuckle fucks, these commenters on Youtube, Twitter and Instagram, all this stuff is just like, no matter what you put out, you could put out the most brilliant album, and they're just going to trash it, because they just get off on trash and stuff.
Well, it's the only way they can get attention, right? You know, they can't do something in a positive way with their seven followers on Facebook and get any attention. So let me go onto this site called blabbermouth, where there's millions of people looking and let me say something really against the grain, that'll show them, and then they get their serotonin rush, like I felt good. You know, it's like this addiction to, you know, watching car crashes on YouTube or something. It's the same
thing, totally. Can you keep going? Or do you have to jet for that? No,
no, we're good. We're good. You're the last one of the day. We can just, okay, cool, yeah, we can do whatever you want. Okay, yeah,
cuz I, well, I had Karabi on yesterday, and they told me it's a hard out. And then he said, Oh, we talked for like, two and a half hours. I was like, Dude, this is, this is, this is a lot of fun, but, yeah, you guys did a project together. And he was telling me that because I was asking about the songwriting thing, they're like, oh, they said they didn't want to write with you. And then he said, No, I talked to Tracy, and Tracy said, No, I didn't have a problem writing with him.
So was it just Nikki that didn't want to write with him, or was it a miscommunication, like the message got construed with that one?
Yeah, John thinks a lot about himself. Nobody thought any way about writing with John. It was like, you have something cool. Let's hear, yeah. I mean, I don't know. It was a band, you know? And then John left. It was very eventless. It wasn't, you know, I think I don't know. I just don't know. Okay,
yeah, so, you know, but you never were like, No, I don't want to write with like, it's like, yeah, you would. It was probably a thing where maybe you didn't like something that he did and then and then just construed that, okay, yeah. Maybe
because even, you know, Nikki didn't want to have anything to do with him. I mean, John sued motley crew and won, you know. So like Nikki didn't want to have anything to do with Karabi, you know. But we were on tour when Nikki and I were putting the band together, and John every day. Hey, talk to six. Talk to six. Did you talk to six? Excuse. Like, yeah, dude, he doesn't want to do it. All right the next day, same thing. It's like, all right, dude, whatever. He turned me on.
Robbie turned me on to clown records, which is the rehearsal studio and recording studio where we loaded into wrote the music and recorded there with this guy, Steve o Bruno, great engineer, great producer, and we're in there for three days. And the next thing you know, Karabi is, like, around the hallways, like, because he was friends with that. Steve o Bruno, yeah. And like, third day in Nikki's, like, This is really
awkward dude. And I'm like, what he goes, Karabi, just like in the hallways, like, what's he doing? I'm like, well, he wants to be in the band, you know. And Nikki, finally he goes. He goes, if it just makes life easier, just go tell him to come in here, you know. And come in and, you know, everybody was nice to him, and Nikki was nice to him, and we got him equipment, and, you know, and then he decides, at some point he's he wants to
be a truck driver. So, you know, I talked Nikki into giving him six grand out of our accounts, and so you got a truck driving to school. He didn't even become a truck driver. Like, just scrambled eggs. Man, just like scrambled eggs, like, you know, whatever. Man, wow. Okay,
I never heard this side of the story. This is wild,
of course not, because it's and the only reason I bring it up is when people just say fucking asinine, stupid shit. It's like we would not have any problems with anybody in any band situation with somebody bringing in music to work on, like it's just an absurd thing to say, you know. So, you know, good luck, dude. I'll be happy. Yeah,
no, it's like, you just have this, you seem like you have a really good attitude with a lot of things like this, like, just say Levy, like you're not really bitter. You just you're kind of like, I'm gonna do my thing and I'm moving on. That's what people don't
understand. You know, like Axl Rose questions, right? They come up constantly because those grab headlines.
Sure, sure. I got some Axl Rose questions. Yeah,
I love Axl Rose. We created, arguably one of the greatest rock and roll bands of all time, right? We had a personal issue at one point in our life that prevented me from carrying on in the band. That's the whole story, right? You know, Do I regret anything? No, that's like the proudest moment of my life is every fucking Guns N Roses t shirt has my name on it, you know? Oh, I regret that. What a bummer, man. You know, so so people really take things out of context. Like, like, maybe,
maybe Tracy guns is a dick. You know, let's just, let's just, like, be neutral about Tracy guns is a dick, okay? And like, like, Do you need a fucking tissue paper? You know? Like, how can I help you feel better about, you know, the the cool stuff I'm doing for people, and creating music that people love, playing live, selling, you know, equipment and products for other companies, and enriching their
life and my life, you know. So the only time I really say anything, you know, Dick ish is it's a response to somebody, somebody's narcissistic bubble that they live in that infringes on me, or somebody like Nikki, or somebody like Phil or Somebody like Ricky rocket, or, you know, all these brilliant people that I've worked with. You know, who cares if Nikki six and I are friends anymore? It
doesn't affect your life. The thing that affected your life is the music we made together and the music that I made on my own and Motley fruit. That's all that that affects your life. You know what I mean. So people write their own movies in their head, and they live them, and all these details are what they add to their movie. And there's just like zero reality behind any of it that affects their life in any way. You know, it's
it's wild. So if I have a good attitude, it's just that I'm very grateful that, you know, at 59 years old, you know, I get to make an album called leopard skin like I was 15 years old. People are going to buy it. We're going to go tour behind it. We're going to have a great time. And that's what this is about to. Me and everybody, and everybody's, you know, you know, tampon moments, you know, go have your fucking tampon moment. I'll wipe your ass for you. I'll
be nice. I'll loan you a guitar again that you can sell, you know, because that's the person I am. Does it piss me off. Yeah, it pisses me off to the point of, like, I don't want to know you anymore, but it doesn't really affect my life in a negative way.
Yeah, that's really profound. I love this kind of I love getting, like, the inside of your brain. I think you're a fascinating guy. Like, what I was in. You look at you were in Guns and Roses, but you're not, like, I've watched several interviews, and you've told the story and all this stuff, and you're not bitter about it. But then you look at a guy like Dave Mustaine, who was in Metallica,
and he's in Megadeth. Megadeth arguably bigger band than LA guns, but it still seems like he's bitter about not being in Metallica. Like, why? What do you think you have advice for him? Or, like, have you guys ever talked about that? Because I just feel like you could help him. I I don't know. I guess I just worry about people, and I'm just maybe that I'm being too known now. I'm being like the person, people that you're talking about that I should just shut the fuck up and listen to music. But
no, I think, you know, in a way, must stand. The only time I've ever hung out was with Mustang. We smoked a joint in a laundry room at Nam.
What fucking awesome story. Yeah, and
he was, he was really nice, you know, he was really cool. That's the only encounter I've ever had with him. But I, but I see the things he says, you know about, about Metallica, and, you know, I guess that's how he feels. You know what? I mean, it's like he wouldn't say it if he didn't
feel that way. He wouldn't say it if he didn't feel like he was discarded in a way, kind of like, you know, when somebody breaks up with you and they replace you with another human, you know, you're just like, hey, you know you're a horrible person for doing that, you know? So, I mean, maybe it comes from that kind of place. You know, Dave is certainly Dave, you know
what I mean. Dave definitely has a strong personality, and he's not afraid to say what's on his mind, but, but he's a big guy, you know, Mustaine is a big guy, you know. So maybe his gripes are legitimate. Yeah, I don't know.
It's interesting, just because, like, Yeah, I mean, you look at where you guys both win, and it's like you both did your own things, and you're like, really happy with yours, and mustaines, like I said, his mega is huge. I love Megadeth. And it's like he still seems to have this, like, bitterness. It's kind of interesting. I
I'm not sure, but did they fire him?
Oh yeah, yeah, well, you quit and he but, I mean, he was, like, a, he was a drunken like, he was a mess, right? So it's like, it's probably good thing, although I don't think that motivated him to get clean. But I think maybe later, looking back, that might have been a motivation to clean up and and he probably, I think he just feels shame or guilt about that or whatever. I don't know. I mean, maybe
he's legitimately angry with himself and doesn't, yeah, yeah, that's very possible. I
love just playing pop psychologists with a lot of this stuff. Just like it's all
psychology, it's all psychology. This whole art psychology, you know, visual art. I have pictures of my kids in front of me, right? And my girlfriend, and it's like, psychologically, it's like, you know, so like, any stimulation in your brain to psychological and music is certainly psychological,
yeah, girlfriends, guys, you've dated some of the most beautiful women, is it? Do you have to, like, actually, I've never been in a band like you have when you're in a band of like, you just not even have to try do women just come to you and then you just,
how does it work? No, okay. I mean, there's a certain caliber, you know, there's groupies. You know, groupies are a thing, and they're awesome. But the women I've had five, I've had six girlfriends my my whole life, you know. And you know, the old blues guys would always say, only go with women that like you. You know, don't chase a woman down that doesn't like you. The only you're the only one doing the liking, right? Because, you know, that's kind
of sets you up for disaster. So I knew that very young, and I just kind of have ended up in spots with my six girlfriends where it just all happened, you know, wasn't, wasn't, not all. You know, five of them obviously didn't work out, you know. I mean, one of them was for 27 years, you know, a few were for like, three years. And most recently, I had a really good six month relationship, and I've. And my girlfriend now for
a year and a half. But they are beautiful, all of them, you know, I can't, I can't deny they're all super special women, you know? I mean, yeah, they all look great but, but each one of them really powerful. What's the word? You know, sense of independence and and you know, well being, and, you know, fighting to get the right things done in their life. And that's always been the appealing thing to me. You know, is that you know a woman that works hard and, you know, is on the right
side of history. Number one, you know all these things. And you know, Freud would say, you know all your your lovers are your mom or dad, you know, kind of in a way. So, you know, my mom's beautiful, you know. So it's like, maybe that's just the way it worked out. Yeah, wasn't
your mom a model? But it's interesting too, because I heard you talking about how your mom was, was your mom or dad, or both of them were into drugs and stuff, and so that's why you think sometimes you're kind of drawn to more of these, like, what do you call like, broken people? Oh, yeah, because they're more interesting. But then you say a lot of the friendships and badly because drug addicts or whatever, because of
it. Well, I think that the drug addiction is only, you know, the the symptom, you know. I mean, it's not that drug addicts or anything like that, but they're, but they're people that somewhere along the way, just kind of, they're great people, but people get broken, you know, who knows why in every
instance. But those are the people I'm most attracted to, you know, and those are the people that come to me, and those are the things that get revealed down the road a little ways, you know, because everybody comes with a smile on their best behavior, and, you know, they want what they want, and I'm available. And it's always such a learning
experience. You know, whether it's Paul black or my ex wife, or Axel rose or my oldest kid's mom, out of everything I've just learned about people, those are all intense relationships, very, very intense and at times toxic. For sure. You know, that's just the way it is. You know, people pretend that, that you know you've done everything right in your life, every step of the way, and that you know you don't deserve someone to to tell you off or be in an argument with
you. Well, that's, that's pretty arrogant, you know. So, you know, I feel like, you know, being the master of many relationships, whether it be band members, bands, you know, women, children, grandparents, you know, like I, you know, I love all of them, you know, do I talk to all of them now? No, you know. But that doesn't mean I don't love them. If you love somebody once, you certainly always have some sort of love for them.
Yeah, that's how I feel about like exes or even friendships or family members, or how to fly on like I still, I want what's best for you, and I want you to be happy, but you I can't be in your life. And like, this is just, this is too much on me, right? Like, I love myself too. I have to protect myself a little bit, right? That's,
that's absolutely right. And it's great, because I know anytime somebody like, kind of talks sideways about me, you know that I'm close to I just go, oh, they love me. Because it's like, there's no reason to say something silly about somebody unless you want their attention. Is there? Yeah,
good point. Yeah, very true. I just have a guy like Adam Hamilton. I'm like, Does anyone ever say anything bad about this guy? Because, like, like, I said, it's got all these comments how he's so nice. I'm like, I want to be like, Adam, how do I do that?
I could tell you, but you don't want to know. Okay.
What else can we talk about? Oh, yeah. So now my only thing with guns and Rose, I was gonna ask you is just like, I know that. I'm not gonna make you retell the origin story. People can Google that. It is really fascinating. But did you ever like run into them after that? Did you ever like see them in the scene, like in the 80s, like, did you guys go to parties or, I mean, I'm I'm assuming it didn't. It's not like you guys had such a huge falling out that you wouldn't be cordial to one another.
Yeah. No, no, no, no. We were fine. I mean, I haven't. Seen the any of those guys multiple times. You know, I've seen Axel a couple times. And, of course, it's always been chords. As a matter of fact, right after I left and we got signed, and they were doing their record, Axel called me and said, Hey, I heard you guys got signed. And I'm like, yeah. Finally, you know, he's like, fuck. And he was in the in the studio with Alice Cooper, recording under my wheels, and
he had me come down there. And I do have the last time we really hung out, hung out, but that was months after, you know, I had left Guns and Roses, you know. And then I don't think I've really seen him since then, but I've seen slash, I've jammed with slash. I've only seen Izzy a couple times because Izzy, he likes to just be gone, and I've had some great conversations
with Duff. But no, we're not friends in an intimate way anymore, you know, I mean, and it's been fun there, I don't know, 35 years now, or something crazy, 40 years? Yeah, so, so, you know, but I got nothing for love, but love for those guys, yeah, you know, they've had their own struggles, man. Jesus Christ. What do you mean? I mean with addiction and yeah, you know, being in hospital, you know, band falling apart, you know. I mean, just the fact that Izzy laughs is kind of
heartbreaking, yeah. I mean, they've been through their own things, you know. I mean, I think, you know, from the outside looking in, you know, people go, oh, all these guys have all this success and make all this money and do all these things. And, you know, they must be the happiest people in the world. And, yeah, I mean, to some degree, you know, everybody appreciates the accolades of their work, but everybody's still just a human it's like everybody's got problems.
Yeah, absolutely. Well, then it's, I would think the hardest thing about being successful, whether you're talking about guns and roses or, you know, band like Tortor, or yourself, like any sort of like, you know, in a band, something
like that. Like, it's hard to know who to trust, like, who's really in this for your best interests and because they like you and they want to support you, and who's kind of the snake and, I mean, I think, like you said, you've kind of learned that throughout the years, like, who's in it, who's really for you and who's trying to take from you? There's a lot of people trying to take when you're in a band like that, right?
Well, there's two ways to approach a band. And you know, from guys that are looking for gigs, they're the guys that really want the gig, and then there's the guys that really need the gig. You never hire the guys that really need the gig. Ever, ever, ever, ever, because need means I, you know what? Means I want to be part of something because I love it, you know? So somebody comes to you and you're banner, man, I need
this gig so bad, please. It's like, sorry, I can't make you happy, only you can make you happy.
That's it really, yeah, because then you're kind of, like, it's almost like a charity thing, if you're just giving them because they need it so bad. And then that doesn't work out for the music,
that's right? Well, it doesn't work out with with the with the chemistry of the band members, yeah. And when you have that, like, you know, having one shit head in the band, wow, it's such a problem. It's such a problem, you know. And I think you know. And I hate to bring up Skid Row and Sebastian, because I love all those guys. Me too. Those love the band. Love them together, love them separate. But the guys in the band, their point of view is that Sebastian, to them, is a
shithead. And then Sebastian's point of view is like, well, they wanted a David Lee Roth type of guy, you know? And my point of view is, don't ever leave that kind of fucking money on the table. What the fuck is wrong with all of
you? That was not what I thought you were gonna say. That is
seriously, like, no joke, like, I'm not making a joke or a funny haha. They don't ever have to even see Sebastian to go and perform live and to make millions of dollars, not just a million bucks, millions of
dollars. Really, you think it was that much they've missed out on? Could they still make that much?
Yes, absolutely, unequivocally, yes, yes. Skid Row is a high impact band. They make pretty decent money now, yeah, even not having a singer, they make pretty decent money now, um, I think the excitement for you know, good 200 New shows over three years. No problem. Man arenas for sure.
So do you think it's just really they, they don't like Sebastian that much that they're willing to cost themselves millions of dollars? Like it's just not worth it for them. They think
they don't like Sebastian that much when you manifest hatred based on an experience or 100 experiences, right? Like they say, you know, doing the same thing the second you know, another time, and expecting it to be different is the definition of insanity. Well, then do it differently. You know what I mean, it's like then do it differently. Yeah, I think Rachel and snake in
particular. I think it's so wound up in their head, how much, how toxic that Sebastian is, that they've amplified it over and over and over and over and over again, and they come out in the press. No, we don't like that guy. It'll never happen. Cool man. Cool and Sebastian's point of view, cool, whatever. But the same time, it's the music business. It's
not the friends business. You're lucky if everybody's friends and you're still doing good business, but you're really lucky if you're doing amazing business, and you don't have to be friends, you know what I mean? And that's ego. That's ego just standing like me. I'm a little bit different because I really just want to play my guitar. I don't worry about money. I haven't ever and I've been broke, I've been poor, but I don't that's not a motivating
factor for me, you know. I mean, I get excited when we make a lot of money, you know. I mean, I don't expect it, you know, like, whoa, we make a lot of fucking money now, you know. And that's great. It's a bonus, you know. But, you know, if la guns was as big as Skid Row man, you know, there's like, fuck, you know, I give, I give away two of my kids, and I only have two kids.
This is a hot take right here. It's gonna be all over this. This is a, this is crazy.
But, I mean, I'm not saying anything that that nobody knows. You know what I mean, it's, it's just that I love all those guys. And, you know, I mean, if the who could do it, come on, man, you know, if, if the Eagles could do it, you know, Guns and Roses could do it. Why are you two? You're not cooler than them.
Yeah, so you think it'd just be a thing where they'd each have their own busses and they don't talk to each other, but they got to see each other. I mean, they have to rehearse and they have to play on stage. So what like
do they I mean, they got to play on stage. Yeah,
rehearse. I guess they can rehearse separately. I think, you
know, like I said at this point, you know, it's a they are a legacy, an unbelievable legacy band from a time that, you know, and I don't care how many snotty people are on the internet talking shit about all of them, people are going to go see Skid Row with Sebastian rock. I would pay but, but my whole what's the word? Ulterior motive for this is, you see, if Skid Row got back together, then la guns could go
open for Skid Row. Oh, I see. Okay, yeah, I would pay to see that show. Let's add, can we throw Warren in the mix too, or poison, or something like that, anything,
man. But that's my whole reason for trying to get back together.
You have dibs on the opening slide. You've already called it,
oh yeah, because, you know, I've already threatened every member said, Hey, man, when you get back together, you don't have la guns on that bill, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna put, you know, fake cheese in your omelets. You know, I'm a heavy heater. I'm a heavy hitter. Yeah, no,
that would be a good I would also love to hear new music. I love their last album. It sounded like old school Skid Row gangs in New York. I don't you heard that one, but it was great. I thought it'd be interesting to hear what they do with Sebastian. I love Sebastian's new album, too. Oh, yeah.
Sebastian's new record is furious, man. It's like ferocious, you know, that's the thing. Rachel is such a good songwriter, you know, and he just put Sebastian on it. And, you know, you can't replace Sebastian Bach, I'm sorry, you can't replace Axl Rose. Can't replace Phil can't replace Brett Michaels. You know, if you do, you're just changing the band. And that's that was, like, only a couple people have been real
successful at it. And it's like, obviously ACDC and Van Halen, which is debatable, and, yeah, made in AC, DC, them, I mean, but the stones certainly could not, you know, replace Jagger, you know, Aerosmith, you know, you can't do it. You know. And, well, you know, Sebastian rose done a pretty good job of it. It ain't the same, right?
You guys have had some other singers in LA guns, and he recorded with one of but one of them that I saw that I was like, Wait, I don't remember. This was Joe lestay from bangtango. He was in LA guns for a brief time, or,
I don't, he came to audition. He came down. He's a real good friend of mine, and he just couldn't, it wasn't his thing, you know what I mean? Like, it just wasn't his was wasn't his style. You would think it would be his style, but it wasn't. And that's what, I guess that's when we got Chris Van doll. But, you know, all the singers in my different versions of La guns I've had were had their pluses and minuses, but there was never la guns like with Phil, you know, I mean, this is like,
it's kind of like Vince Neil and Motley like, it just Vince Neil, like, it's such a distinct, you know, who it is like, and I feel like, the same way that Phil has that. Like, when you hear Phil, you're like, Oh, this is La guns.
Yeah, it's really, in our case, it's simple, you know what I mean? Because, you know, you know, when we had jizzy in the band, it was also fantastic, but we were really doing our own thing. It really wasn't la guns, you know, I mean, but Jussie did sing Phil stuff real well, but it still was an LA gun. Same with Alana. She did her thing on the songs. And you go watch that YouTube stuff, and she's mind blowing. People gave zero fucks. Yeah, I
heard you say that they just didn't. That's why it was so short lived. Because people that you loved it and you thought she sounded amazing, just wasn't like guns,
yeah? And people just weren't having it. They didn't want you know, and that's the thing your audience will tell you, you know. They will let you know, yeah. I mean, isn't isn't that what the internet's for? So fans can tell they're their favorite musicians and actors, like, you know when to go fuck themselves.
You know, I don't mind having opinions, like a constructive opinions, but I feel like nobody has any tact on the internet, like people don't talk like that to each other in real life, like you could give constructive criticism and be nice about hey. Like, I really like this interview, but I wish that you would have asked this or so. It's like, you fucking idiot, you didn't ask him about that. What are you stupid?
Strange, yeah, that's just the cross is a line. But, you know, people are really brave behind any field, behind any wall, behind any you know, protective service, you know. And that's what you know, the computers is essentially a protective service. You can be the asshole that you've always been on the internet.
Yeah, it is kind of fun sometimes to be the asshole, right?
I guess when it's justifiable, yeah? But, but if it's justifiable, are you really being an asshole,
right? Oh, that's true, yeah. And I just feel like arguing with people on the internet is like, it's just such a waste. Of like, I just, you just, it can't be constructive. I feel like with these podcasts, we can have a healthy discussion, but people, random people on the internet, it just doesn't work well. You
everybody lives in their own little shell, and you know, they can only speak of their experience with certain situations, and you know, you can only talk about what you know. You know, you can't talk about somebody else's
experience, you know. And that's, and I have a feeling that's where a lot of the disconnect is with people, is that they they can't relate to each other's experience, you know, like, you know, take somebody living in Manhattan talking about life with somebody that lives in Wyoming, you know, and they've only grown up in those two places, and they don't have any idea about what the other person's life has been like, because they they haven't done it, they haven't physically
been there. So, you know, that's where humans disconnect is like, you know, because a lot of people in the states haven't been to Europe or the Middle East or Australia or Japan or Korea or South America. And so a lot of us here think, Well, life is just like this, everywhere, right? And it's nothing like, yeah, you know, I mean, you go to Japan, you go to Tokyo, wow. This feels like home. You go to London, Oh, this feels like home. You know, Copenhagen, Oh, this feels like Venice Beach,
you know what I mean. But those societies and those cultures are completely different from one another and different from us, you know. And so the United States is so big that we do have big metropolises and little tiny villages and little one street towns, and everybody's life experience is different. So. So, you know, then you add the internet, where everybody has the same size platform, and it's just a shit show, man,
it is, right, yeah, because I don't think people, yeah, they can't understand. And then also, I feel like people are different on the internet, like there's people that are the nicest people in real life, like I love them. I'd hang out with them for hours a day. I can't look at one Facebook post from them, or I'll go crazy, like it's just ridiculous.
Yeah, keep, keep your circle small friends. That is,
that is great advice. But, yeah, I just, I love that's one thing. I haven't been around the world like you or whatever. I mean, I've been to some places, but I doing this podcast, talking to people from different parts of the world and and different backgrounds, like from all kinds of different backgrounds, different ages, different races, religions, all this stuff. I find it just really fascinating. And I think that what I've the My conclusion is that we have much more in common than we'd have
differences. And I just wish that we could realize that somehow, I don't know how to make people realize that, but, yeah,
I mean, for example, you know, we play in the south a lot, right? And a lot of the Red Hats are from the south. So everybody just assumes that they're these, like crazy stupid people. But it's quite, you know, on the contrary, you know, these people are the first ones to help you
out. They're the first ones to, you know, let you in their home and cook meals for you and and do so, so, so, you know, even though you can disagree on policies and you know what TV show you're watching, but people are all basically the same, you know, it does. It does. Just doesn't matter, because you all have the same common needs. You know, you're hungry, you want to look your best, and you want to have sex. You know, that's, that's really the basic things
of life, you know. And as you get older, you know, some of those start getting more important than others, and but, people generally just want to be comfortable. You know what I mean? They want to find comfort. And a lot of people find comfort from making other people feel comfortable. And that's called Southern hospitality. And it's real. It exists. It's a great thing. You know, people's hatred for other people, that's unjustified. That's a whole
nother story. You know, that's the way that people are raised. That's the way people are taught. You know, that's a that's a cultural mistake, but it's in every country. It's not exclusive to the United States, you know? I mean, I hate to admit Denmark is ranked number one racist country in the world. Really did not know that, but you would go there and you don't see signs of racism anywhere, because the three major cities are very diverse, very
progressive. And you know, but it makes me sad, you know, to know that. So you know, you can look at things and statistics and this and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but when you're face to face with nice people, they're just nice people.
Yeah, no. I mean, I just, I just, I think if we just sat, if we all turned off, maybe not turned off the internet, but got on the internet less and talked to each other in real life, and sat down and had
conversations. I mean, two of my favorite guests that I've had on the show, Michael Sweet from striper, Doug Pinnock from King's x2, completely opposite, I'm sure, politically, you know, views, but and they said, Michael told me that the two of them have sat down and and and had long conversations about life and and religion and all that stuff. And I'm like, I love that. I love to hear that those two guys can, can have conversations together, because
I love both of them. And, you know, it's great that they can, if they can get past it. Why can't we all do it?
Well, George and Michael had some interesting conversation. You know that one, yeah. I mean, I just saying I heard, but no, I mean, I did two records with Michael, and the reason I did them was to prove that religions not going to destroy what Michael and I do best, and that's make metal. But did you ever talk
to him about Did you guys ever have long discussions or No, yeah, we laugh about it,
because he knows that I'm 100% atheist. I'm actually a Satanist, and that's going to offend a lot of people, because they don't know what that is, but I don't give a shit. But we laugh about it, you know, because he has his thing, I have my thing, but I don't hate him or dislike him, you know, because he has his beliefs. And you know, he's very fond of me, even though I have my beliefs, which I don't have any beliefs. So I. Yeah, but I love having dinner with them. I
love making music with them. I love doing these things. And I mean, and Sun bomb is such a great example of of none of that shit matters,
right? Well, that's what the I think the glue that holds the world together is music like that is the one thing where everyone can come together, maybe sports too, maybe other entertainment, but definitely music. I feel like it brings people together from all different kinds of backgrounds and and, like you said earlier, with some of your songs, like they have different meanings to different people. Yeah,
yeah. Well, I mean, everything in life has a different meaning, you know, to different people. You know, something as simple as like, a key, you know? Everybody knows it's a key, you know, but the three people are going to argue, well, that's for a shed, no, that's for a front door. No, that's definitely for a back door. You know what I mean?
Like, everybody makes up right away through their experience, what they see, because it's been ingrained, ingrained, ingrained, you know, and we're all brainwashed one way or the other, you know. I mean, you can't deny that, you know, that's just human nature, you know, we got a big computer on top of us, right? Do is input information constantly, you know? And the computer doesn't always know what to make of that information.
Yeah, I just love to I think that the problem is a lot of people are always trying to convince everybody else what they think is right. I'm trying to do more of Let me listen to you and let me try to understand why you think the way you think, or you feel the way you feel like and then I think you're
right. Like a lot of it comes back from how their upbringing, if somebody in Manhattan is going to have a completely different upbringing than someone in Wyoming, and hence, different beliefs and and stances on things,
right, right? And the thing that gets me into trouble on the internet is that if somebody just lies, you know, people lie
right now they Oh, there's a lot of that. The media lies,
yeah, yeah. They do. They do. And you know, when you're repeating lies over and over again, then you really believe the lies. And that's what being pathological is what you got, buddy. Oh, man, you look good. Um, and you know, there is ways to finding out the truth, so, you know. But a lot of people, because they've already input the lie so many times they see the truth, and they they reject the truth, you know, and that's not good for anybody. That's not good for the
one believing the lie. That's worse for the person believing the lie, you know, and
you look foolish, yeah, and some of these lies, they do damage. Some people believe these lies so much that they're willing to break the law to go to bat for the you know. I mean, it was like, I mean, I won't get in specifics, but, you know, I mean, both parties, like January 6, like people, they believe this, like the election is, you know, they're breaking the law to and so, yeah, I mean, a lot of this stuff is dangerous. That's why I say, if people could just turn off the
internet. Just some of the time, I guilty of it myself. I need to turn off the internet more, too. But, yeah, I mean, I think that that could be sitting down and talking with each other. I think we would realize we have way more in common than we have apart. Well,
here's a personal example, and you're right. I was talking to my my little guy's mom this morning because I was going to organize a trip for my big kid and my little kid. We were going to have summer vacation, drive up north of California and see some cool shit in July. And the little ones Danish, and his mom's obviously Danish. And so we're talking this morning. I go, I go, Hey, you know, I'm thinking
about doing that. Or, you know, I want to plan this for July, you know, so Ollie and Jagger, can, you know, spend some time together this summer, and she paused for a long time. And then she goes, she goes, honestly, I'm scared to death to travel to America right now. And I'm like, I'm like, Oh, right. And then she told me that, you know, she knows some stories of some people getting stuck, you know, in customs here, and being kind of carted away, not being given an opportunity to call a lawyer
or to call anybody you know. So there's a Travel Warning from Denmark to here, because it's too dangerous or mysterious, and you don't know who they're going to pick. You know people coming through the border, and that's a fact like that's affecting my family right now. You know, there's no part of that that I could have made up, you know what I mean? So, you know, it's now. Also affecting my life. The lies Absolutely,
yeah. I mean, that's interesting. Yeah, it does seem like there's some cloudiness around, around the immigration stuff right now, and what's happened, I don't know that's kind of that is a little bit concerning, though, for sure, especially for someone that needs to travel. I mean, I think we go to, I'm in Arizona, we, we used to go to Rocky Point Mexico. It's just across that's
so awesome. But saying, like, You got to get a special because I have a passport, but there's like, a, like, a some sort of ID or something that we need to get, like, what? Like, this was always
we you can't go to Mexico with just a passport anymore. You have to fill out paperwork now. That's that's the relative. That's what I heard. Six months, seven months, yeah, you know, because of all the the shit that we've been screaming, you know, they want to know who's coming into there. Because, see, what people don't know is that Americans traffic guns into Mexico. See, everybody's always focused on
fentanyl coming from Mexico. And yes, it's definitely a problem, and our Border Patrol has been amazing at it. They've been getting all the fentanyl. They've been fighting it, but we, but Americans, track guns down to to Mexico, you know, firearms and but nobody here ever talks about it, you know, I mean, so this way, with their new background checks, who's coming in? You know, they're
doing eye scans. They're doing everything just like we, we do and, you know, you and I, you know, a year ago, could have gotten my Volkswagen bus and drove down to Tijuana and had a good old time. Nobody would have gave a shit. It's not like that anymore.
Yeah, fuck that sucks. Yeah, because I love Rocky Point. It's so it's so nice and people and it's like, funny, because all people are scared to go, like, that's another thing that I feel like, is misinformation. There's so many of my friends I can't convince to go to Mexico because they're just like, No, Mexico is not safe. I'm like, Okay, this is Rocky Point. This is like, I'm trying to explain, like, right, Mexico City. Rocky Point
is, like, a small town. It's like, if it'd be like, going to, you know, Wyoming, like, a small town in Wyoming, it's totally safe. It's like, amazing, safer than Phoenix, I think,
right? Oh, I'm sure it is.
The people down there are so kind and and grateful, like, it's just such a you know, they love when you go into a restaurant, they're like, oh, casino, come on in. Like, they're so happy and grateful. You get the best service. It's like, amazing. Oh, absolutely.
I mean, and you find that in most places, people are like that. That's what I'm saying, is that whatever your preconceived notion is, because you heard it on the internet, you go to any of these horrible places and you're going to be greeted with open arms. You know, people are going people are going to treat you really good until you're a dick, and then I'll treat you really good. You know, the internet's a problem, and they said it was a
problem from day one. They said it was going to be a problem, and it is, yeah, well, just wait
till this interview comes out, like, because the thing is, is, like, somebody was saying something the other day about, oh, I think it was on. There was a clip I saw of Joe Rogan saying that podcasts are going to be the way to, you know, to bring people together, and it's going to dispel the
misinformation all this. And I'm like, yes, if people listen to the full podcast, the problem is people are only listening to a short clip, or the headline or and I guarantee you this interview there'll be some headline and no offensive loud mouth. I love them. They I think they do a great job. They promote music and my podcast, but I think people should try to listen to the full interviews as much as they can, and they will really get the gist of the whole conversation and not have things
taken out of context. Well,
I think I said it recently in a podcast where everything's about the headline, you know, that's the that's where the attention grab. So the headlines everything you know, and and for as informative as blabber mouth is, it's headlined in a tabloid way, you know?
And I see, I understand that, and I get when I see the headlines, like, Oh, okay. And then, and if you read more, and if you listen to interview, go, then you understand it more. But see, I think a lot of people don't do that, the headline, no,
no, no, it's only headline, yeah, you know, it's the same way. That's why Twitter used to be so great, because you could only type, like, I don't remember what it was like,
100 characters, yeah,
yeah, you know. And it's like, so fast, right? Get your info. Get your info. Get your info. So now, like, I remember in 2016 on all the news stations, all of a sudden. Everything was breaking news. That's so true. Everything is breaking since 2016 it's been nine years, and everything is still breaking news. And then the sound has gotten louder when
it comes in breaking news. So if you're if you understand that that that headline is created to be the first thing in your mind, and then it should interest, interest you enough to go read the details. But most people don't. You know they I saw on, oh yeah, blah, blah, blah, this. It's like,
I've fallen for it so many times too. I've learned now, okay, like, wait a minute, this. Let me read the details on this. This sounds like a little fishy. Oh, wait. And even in the article, if you read down paragraph three, it says, like, oh well, this is, like, this is a maybe this might happen kind of thing or something.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's all you know. But if everybody stepped back and, you know, blabbermouth, whatever, you know, podcast, whatever, and everybody stepped back realize how unimportant most of this information is to their personal life. You know what I mean? Because there are some things on the internet that are very important to people's lives in a positive way and in a negative way. But focusing on, you know, like, like, here metallic right
headfield comes out. Really talking about the issues that he's been through. I'm sure millions of people have heard his story, and it's helped them, you know, because he's the angry guy, right? Like he's fucking James Hetfield. He comes out, he's like, you know, coming home off tour, you know, I'd be angry, I'd drink, go to the market. Didn't even know who I was. You know, these are personal, personal things that he exposed. And that's what a
real man does. A real man exposes his his shortcomings so he can become a better man, you know? And that's like, I got so much respect for that dude, and I've known that guy for so long. Um, think I've only had four conversations with him in my life, but they've all been three of them were amazing, and one he was drunk, and we were alone at the scrap bar in New York City in 91 and when he was drunk, he was a completely different
person. Wow, you know, but I was with him at another real critical time backstage at Donington in 2004 we were, I was with the brides, and I went to their little back they had a big backstage area, and there was nobody back there but me and Kurt and I guess Robert was there. I didn't see him, but and James and Lars wasn't coming, but they didn't tell me, right? Like they were acting like trace, you know, what's up, man, this is so rad. You're playing.
And then talking to James from and he goes, he goes, he goes, I don't want to cut this short, but you know, we got a little situation right now I'm trying to deal with. So, you know, let's, let's talk more later. I'm like, Oh yeah, cool. Like, that's how cool those dudes are. Like, Lars was not coming, and he did not come. They were headlining Donnington. Well,
who played drums then, I don't remember this, um,
Corey Taylor. Corey Taylor, drummer, and Dave Lombardo did most of the set. Wow. It was great. Yeah, it's really cool. But you know, I mean, these guys are setting examples for young men, you know, and it's much better to lead them in the right direction. I agree. Don't glorify heroin, you know, you don't glorify heroin, you don't glorify alcoholism, you don't glorify these things you know. You you talk about your personal experiences with with you know, tragic events, and what you've
learned from them, you know. And that's how you teach young men, if you're in a position like that, you know, be strong. Don't hide your shit, or else it'll get worse.
Yeah, well, I think you had that conversation with with Duff. I think I heard you talking about that he did, yeah, and that's he does a kickboxing now too, because that's the other thing I feel like people like, okay, like, quit drugs, quit alcohol. Okay, now, but now, what do you do? Because you get you still. Not that anxiety.
Both smoke and it's fucked.
You won't get, I mean, kill
you, but I guess, well, everybody dies or something. But no, it's funny. Brought up the duff thing because I was walking by. He was in a I think it was Jiu Jitsu. He was kickboxing. Yeah, I walked by, and I that's tough, and this is a long time ago now, like 20 years ago. So I just walked in, and he's like, Tracy, what the fuck man, you know, like we hadn't seen each other forever. And so he finished up.
He only had, like, 10 minutes left, and he said to Kristen, he goes, he goes, Hey, man, can I take Tracy on? You know, we haven't talked about it. Chris, like, yeah, see you later. And so we get it in the car. He lights up a season kick boxing for an hour, and we're smoking cigarettes. He goes, Yeah, it's the whole the one thing, right?
I'm like, Yeah, but you know, he had gone through, you know, solid therapy and rehabilitation and all these things and everything that that trouble he got into was from anxiety, you know, was, you know, the uncontrollable scenario, you know, whatever it is. And he's the first guy that ever talked to me about it, you know, because I told him, because I knew that that's what he went through. And he's like, he's like, you know, the end of the
day, it's your life. You make your own decisions, man, you know, don't let anybody tell you what you have to do. You know. You know what's right for you, and if you feel like you're missing out on opportunities, well, seek help, you know. I mean, that's, that's the nuts and bolts of that conversation, you know, and you know. So, you know, Do I regret leaving Guns and Roses? No, because, you know, 15 years later, I had a conversation with Duff about anxiety that changed my life.
You know what? I mean? It's like, did it
though? So wait, were you? You weren't doing drugs and shit like because you don't do you don't even like, drink that much or anything.
No, no. I mean, I'm a good drinker. I can have like, a half a margarita that I feel great. And I've always been that way. You know, if I have like, two or three shots, I'm sick, you know, I just I can't drink. And, yeah, no, I've tried most drugs, you know. How could I nodded, you know, back back then, you know, but never got into them, you know, but still dealt with the artist anxiety, yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't know. Thank God I'm the problem is, I'm scared to death of
drugs, you know what? I mean, that's, that's a good thing.
Yeah, that is good. Yeah, I remember when I I met Duff, when he was playing with a slash a snake pit. When you talk about, like, you know, people being a role models and stuff. And I was a young kid. I was like, 17 or something, and I remember it was in Seattle, and he gave me an autograph, and his hand was like, shaking. I mean, I saw more, and he was so fucked up. And then to see him, you
know. Now he's writing books like, how to be a man, and he's, he's in he's got, like, a six pack, he's in shape, and it's like, which stuff do I want to be? Like, I'd rather be the duff now, like, I think he's got to shut together. And he's doing great. And I love it. I love to see people happy and doing well.
He is doing well, you know. And, you know, he's the type of person that you can look at and understand what it's like to appreciate the great things that you have in your life, you know, and that's where there's a big turnaround for him. Because, you know, I remember the first day I ever met him, you know, was at the very first Guns N Roses rehearsal with him. He was, he was a friend. He lived across the street from Izzy. Izzy told me about him. Came in he was the
nicest guy in the world. He was drinking at like 10 in the morning, but he was the nicest guy in the world and probably the most well rounded musician I had ever played with at that time, because he was in, like, some kind of cover band, and we're in a tribute band, but like a cover band like that plays a multiple, you know, new wave and rock and roll and punk rock and, you know, pop music, you know. So he's very good
musician, very smart guy. He was, he was the guy I drove home with after the last Guns and Roses gig and told him that this wasn't for me, you know what I mean. And I felt safe telling him that, without him getting angry, like I knew Izzy would, but he'd be passive about it.
And then, you know, Axel obviously got angry, but he's a really good person, man, and and when he went through all the stuff and came out on the other end, it was one of those moments I was just like, like he did it, you know, and it's harder to do what he did to get through that than almost anything else you could go through in your life. You. You know, I mean, he had his skin was peeling off his
hands. He would play with gloves on, you know, because his hands were so screwy, you know, from from vodka, you know, stuff like that. And instead of dying, he wanted to live, and he did. And he's, and he's, it's amazing. Yeah,