First of all welcome, Robert W. Sullivan the fourth, explain everything that you do because you have quite a lot of credentials. You're a lawyer, you're Freemason. You're an author and a speaker.
Yeah, I mean, I, I'm a lawyer here in Baltimore, Maryland. I've also written and published five books. The first of which is called the royal arch of Enoch, the impact of Masonic ritual philosophy and symbolism, that I have three books out analyzing esoteric imagery in popular culture and pop films in Popular Movies. And I also have a work of fiction out called a pact
with the devil. All these books are readily available in all the major online, you know, retail sites, Amazon, Barnes and Noble Books a Million, they're in the print form in ebook form, except for the work of fiction ebook that'll be coming out, probably in the early 2024. And I'm working on other material right now I'm currently working on cinema symbolism for that'll
probably be out in 2025. And I'm also looking to do a couple updates, some of the earlier editions, I'm going to do a we'll watch third edition and a cinema symbolism third edition and a cinema symbolism two, that'll be a second edition. I'm also working on some other works of fiction as well. Oh,
that sounds amazing. Yeah, I've got the some of the notes here from the books that you've written already. And I do think it's interesting to note that the reason that because I noticed none of your books are available on Audible. And the reason for that you explain is because you want people to see the symbolism. And so there's a lot of illustrations and pictures that go along with these books,
right? I mean, it would be it would be almost impossible to put these books in audio, because so much of it is image generated. I mean, this is really true of cinema symbolism for this one's probably gonna have more images than any of the others. But I mean, if I'm describing something, or there's a scene or something in a scene, and I include the image, you know, you
have to see it. So I've been asked that question before, and it's, my answer is, I don't think audio would really be feasible, because you really need some, a lot of the material in the book is you need to it's visual, you need to actually see the image to understand it. Right,
it makes sense. Okay, so yeah, we have a lot to talk about. But let's talk about some of the Freemason stuff, because that was something that I've kind of been interested in learning about. And I've just been able to find, you know, I tried to find documentaries on it and things on YouTube, and there's just not a lot of information in it. But can you explain to that, why did these things these lodges start? What What was the point because their secret they started as a secret
Lodge, right? What was the point of why not make it open? Like the Catholic Church and all these other things?
Right? Well, it's its actual origins, where this thing comes from is
actually unknown. And actually, no one knows where, you know, we're really comes from, we know that at some point in time, at some point in time, during the Middle Ages, you had these Masonic guilds popping up, you know, and the, these were centered around actual architects, actual stone masons, and they had large meetings and eventually they they started, including people who weren't stonemasons, lawyers, doctors, and they became very popular. They has a very mixed history.
It depends on who you listen to. There's really two main, you know, schools of thought on this. I mean, if really, you know, I mean, what is it goes, you know, there's clearly evidence that you know, it that the medieval cathedrals clearly stem from some sort of, you know, operative masonry guild craftsmen. Some people take masonry back to the Bible with the building of the tower of Babel, you get into things like
the pyramids in Egypt. You know, this is one of the traditional history that's laid out of Freemasonry by a guy named James Anderson who writes the constitutions of the Freemasons in 1723. Then you have another school of thought, and this comes a little later this comes into 1730s by this guy named Andrew Michael this Chevalier Ramsay, who says that Freemasonry comes from this group of medieval warrior Roman Catholic knights called the Knights Templar. And this is where Freemasonry comes from.
And it's this amalgamation of the old mystery religions that the Templars in, you know, encountered during their time in the Holy Land in the Middle East. Things like the Osiris and mystery or the rights of a Lucius for the rights of Mithras things like that. So where it actually comes from really, you know, it's just speculation. You
know, no one actually knows. It becomes very popular these lodge meetings with with the with the craftsmen and It's really in 1717, that masonry officially comes into the comes onto the scene in the history books, when when the lodge is organized in London, England, and this is the creation of the first Grand
Lodge. So, you know, and it is, it's one of the things my book kind of did the first book was, and it's just kind of the, you know, sort of the law, again, the philosophy that when I went through it was, you know, he was basically that, you know, any sort of conspiracy or this, that and the other was just just all talk, don't pay attention to it, you actually do the research into it, I mean, you'll find that Masonic symbolism, I mean, it's very rich, it was used to craft the United States, and
it's very powerful. And, you know, if you get the eye for it, you can really see a lot of Masonic imagery in, you know, you know, not only in the actual architecture place like Washington, I mean, you'll see it with Union College, you'll see it with, you know, a lot of the state seals and logos, certainly the architecture of DC Baltimore has it, which is where I am, the triple division of government governance in the United States comes out of the
Masonic blue Lodge. So there is a very, especially in the United States, a very powerful and potent Masonic symbolism prevalent throughout the history and you know, material culture. You know, as it forms, it's just a secret society. Anyone can join it, any male can join, it's open to men only. The only real real criteria to join it is you have to be, you have to believe in a supreme being, you can't be atheists, you can't be an
atheist. So, you know, essentially, if you're not an atheist, you can join Freemasonry. And, you know, like I said, it's just just duct solid to meet meetings in secret. And it's just been that way since time and memorial.
So nobody knows who is at the top of this. Because right, isn't there certain there's initiation ceremony? And then there's just different levels? Like you don't know, everything depends on what level you're at. You don't know all the different things at the top, there's secrets that you don't get that aren't revealed to you until you become that highest level Freemason. Right.
Well, sort of, yeah, yes. And no, I mean, when you join a blue Lodge, you go through the first three degrees, which is entered apprentice, fellow craft, Master Mason, after that there are two high degree bodies that are open to you, in the United States, at any rate, the York Rite in the Scottish Rite, which essentially continues the Masonic education, your Masonic education? And
you're correct. I mean, if you didn't do those, those lodges, or if you didn't join those higher degree bodies, yeah, I mean, there's things that wouldn't be you wouldn't know, if you didn't join them. I mean, you might have heard, you know, you might have read a book on it, or something. But, you know, I mean, you wouldn't have gone
through the ritual. I mean, this is sort of what I write, in my book, that this is one of the things that, you know, it's one of the, what I get into in my book is one of the things that I think really makes the high degree so important is, and this is again, really sort of the main thesis of the first book is the high degrees, the Yorker, and the Scottish Rite sort of
finished the Masonic story. When you get into the blue Lodge, the whole thing revolves around this thing called the last word of a Master Mason. The third degree ritual is about this architect of Solomon's temple named him a Biff. And he had possesses something known as the tetragrammaton, which is the name of God make a long story short, he's murdered by three fellow crafts and the word is lost. Hence the last word of a
Master Mason. And this is, of course, what all the blue lodge Masons are always running around looking for this last word of a Master Mason. If you get into the high degree bodies, the word is actually recovered. It's found. And it's actually at the very end of the it's actually the highest degree in masonry. It's the 13th to the Scottish Rite, the seventh in New York, right? Where there's last word of a Master Mason is finally located. And it's sort of the
end of the Masonic story. It's kind of like the Holy Grail being found, or, you know, the quest for the Golden Fleece. What have you. Of course, if you didn't go through the high degrees, this would be unavailable to you. So in that
aspect, yeah, that's true. And again, this is sort of what I wrote the first book about, because it really, when you look at it, and you analyze it, this high degree body called the royal arch of Enoch is really what I would describe as the ritual that the United States by and large is being crafted around. Right?
Because the people that founded this country were all Freemasons, right? Yeah,
most of them were. Most of them were Freemasons. Certainly, a lot of the founding fathers, the signers of the Declaration of Independence were a lot of the signers of the United States Constitution were the guy, the guy who really takes it and runs with it is the guy who comes after Washington, a guy named DeWitt Clinton. He's the former mayor of New York. He's the former governor of New York State. He's really the guy who uses Freemasonry to craft the
nation around or vice versa. He uses Freemasonry to essentially create the two political Just to pull it to party political system that we have, he's really the guy more than the other, I would say except for maybe Washington, who is sort of like the Masonic godfather of the country, it's really Clinton, who is, you know, is the driving force behind masonry turning the United States into, you know, quote unquote, Masonic Republic. So there's
not somebody at the top or counsel at the top that's running all these lodges, like is in charge of the whole thing?
No, no, that's a that's a fallacy. Because in the United States, there's no, there's no central Grand Lodge. The each state is have, you know, runs itself. There's no like Grand Lodge of the United States with someone over them. Each grant each state is run by a Grand Lodge. So I'm here in Baltimore, Maryland. So I'm under the aegis of the Maryland Grand Lodge, the Pennsylvania Grand Lodge has no
authority over me. Now, if, you know, it could recommend something for the Maryland Grand Lodge, but each lodge of each state runs the state independently, and is answerable to no one over above and beyond that, and again, there's there's no relation, I mean, there's a relation, but there's no authority with the, you know, the grand lodges in England, that was all broken off in 1776. So, you know, outside of the state Grand Lodge, there's no, you know, higher thing other than that, okay,
so then explain the connection with the Illuminati, because that's something that that word gets thrown around a lot and all these conspiracy theories, but from what I understand that the Illuminati was something that was started by a guy who didn't want to join Freemasons or couldn't join and wanted to do his own thing. And so it's something separate, right.
Right. We, again, it's somewhat of a murky history. And again, you have to know you got to go back in time a little bit to kind of understand this. The the Illuminati, the the historical one, was created by a guy named Adam Whitehouse at the White House at the University of English Stein in 1776. And it is it's a Masonic, Jesuit spin off as, as it were, and it does include a lot of Freemasons. It, it doesn't exist as it did back then. If you want to say it has reemerged, the closest thing you
could probably find to it. And there is some compelling evidence with this is that it's Scotland bones at Yale University, that's probably the closest thing you would find in modern day to the Bavarian Illuminati. But it's the font, I mean, it definitely goes out of business. The the the there is a decided Nexus. And again, this is where you get into this murky waters, between Freemasonry and
the Society of Jesus. Because it's the Society of Jesus, that who are responsible for the high degrees of Freemasonry, and it's cultivated by the Jesuits as part of the Counter Reformation. If you don't know what that is, the Jesuits in the, in the, in the 16th century, were charged with the destruction of Western civilization, and essentially the destruction of the
Protestant world. And they use in the 17th century Freemasonry as a vehicle, especially specifically these high degrees, they come out of Paris, France, in the 1740 7050s. And their sole purpose is to restore the stored pretenders back to the
throne of England. And it is essentially this nexus between the Freemasons and the Jesuits, which definitely does exist, that is all but responsible for every conspiracy out there, whether it be the Illuminati 911, the Lincoln assassination, the Kennedy assassination, you know, that that's really where a lot of this comes from. There is a lot of truth to it, though. And again, this is what I think makes it such an interesting
subject. A lot of people say, Oh, it's just conspiracy theory, when you break it down and look at it, there is some really, you know, kind of, you know, hidden things that make you sit back and share. Oh, wow. You know, I didn't know that. And, you know, even in the cultivation of the United States, with masonry and the Jesuits, I mean, you'll even see it, you know, you know, right, you know, you'll see it
alive. And well, I mean, for example, the, the property that Washington DC was built on was owned by Daniel Carroll. Prominent Freemason. His father was John Carroll, who was a Jesuit and the first Archbishop in the United States Baltimore Basilica. And of course, he finally founded Georgetown University, which is one of the reasons why the Jesuit school is locked within the Masonic Federal District. It's again, it's a nexus between the Society of Jesus and the Freemasons. Hmm.
So then what do you think is going on at Bohemian Grove? What what is your theory on that? Because that's is really fascinating to me. There's all these theories, that it could be part of Freemasons could be part of Illuminati could be something totally different. I mean, there's definitely some some weird ceremonies and things going on in that place. And now I think they're a little bit bigger on security because Alex Jones breached it, filmed what was
going on? And they said, Oh, we were just joking around.
Yeah, I mean, I mean, there's really There's really no nexus with it between Freemasonry and the Bohemian Grove. I mean, it does conduct sort of what you would call bizarre ritual. And it certainly does. You know, I mean, I've seen the video of it as well, I have some books here on Bohemian Grove. And it is it's basically like a like a, what I would describe as, you know, a playground for the elites. That's really what it
is. They do the midsummer ritual, you know, the cremation of care ritual with the mock human sacrifice. That's clearly what it looks like, you know, with the owl statute there, which many think is is is a, you know, stand in for Molik. But that there's really no, I mean, other than it's sort of a secret playground for the wealthy and elites. There's really no nexus
between it and Freemasonry. Like I said, it's it's, it's certainly not under the protection or authority of the California State Grand Lodge, I can put it to you like that. Yeah.
So like one of the some of there's all these conspiracy theories about the free MIT, some of them are just like, out there. They're ridiculous. But one of the things they say is that the Freemasons exerts control over the politics, like the New World Order, and you always hear people talking about the deep state. But what is your theory on that? Do you think the Freemasons are connected to that whole thing? Or is that just totally separate? Or is it totally a hoax?
And no, I would say my answer to that would be it was quote, co opted by the from, from the Freemasons, the original, deep state where the Freemasons It was run by a guy named DeWitt Clinton, who I mentioned, you may have in your travels, heard of something known as the Colombian Illuminati, he was the guy who ran it. DeWitt Clinton is the guy who runs the essentially the American side of the Illuminati called the
Colombian Illuminati. And he is really the guy who sort of creates the deep state, because it's because of this high degree called the royal arch of Enoch. And again, you have to understand what is going on in that ritual. And the way it worked was back in the day, it doesn't work like this anymore, was, in order in order to
network within masonry. And within politics, you had to obtain this last word of masturbation because the way it was set up in this country was that when you obtained this last word, this this word, this last in the blue Lodge, but discovered in the high degrees, when you find this word, what is implied with that is, you are now given express warranty to rule over the masses. That was
the implication with it. So it's these royal arch Masons under the aegis of DeWitt Clinton, under the authority of with Clinton, who is networking, and click that they would have told you this was all totally benign. This was a way to unify the country to unite the Federalists with the Jeffersonian Republicans, Clint Clinton, you know, works heavily heavily with the Federalists, but he's a Jeffersonian Republican. So Clinton and the Federalists are working behind the scenes to run
the country, essentially. And this was all totally exposed in the 1820s by a guy named William Morgan.
I was gonna ask you about him because then he disappear. Right, right.
Morgan Morgan is abducted by the Freemasons taken over the water in Canada and disappears, is never seen from again, presumed murdered, or killed. And because of that, there is this massive backlash against Freemasonry in the country, it all but goes under. It does not it does
survive it. But it survives it on the on the sort of chain it survives it because it changes its philosophy, masonry in order to survive it was it wasn't it was when it finally founds the country and up until the Morgan affair was looked at as a patriotic order. After Morgan It's looked as like usually like a deep state black magic Cabal.
So one of the ways masonry distance itself from that is, it is it purges itself of any notion that it has anything to do with the mystery religions hermeticism the occult, you know, Kabbalah, Alchemy, it, of course, does, but it's, it says, oh, you know, we don't have anything to do at the, you know, with that we're just a charity of fraternal organization to help widows and orphans. Basically, it's that philosophy that carries Freemasonry through the rest of the 19th century,
through the 20th century. And it's really into the early, you know, 21st century with the advent of the Internet, where masonry starts rediscovering its esoteric roots, and starts really kind of becoming more of, you know, a sort of right rather than this thing itself, sort of embracing its esoteric side, at least at least that's what I can
tell when I joined in 1996. It was you know, you know, any any speaker that was oh, this is just nonsense conspiracy theory, but if you start reading the people like you know, Mackey, Albert Pike, Manley P Hall, you learn that's simply not the case. Lastly, I'll just wrap up on this. One of the guys who was alive during the Morgan affair was Edgar Allan Poe. And if you read the cast have a motto
lotto. That is a Allegory of The Morgan affair where the guy is bricked up by the tools of Freemasonry and disappears forever. That's an allegory for the disappearance of William Morgan. Oh, interesting.
And then so what is it? Because I think I read that some of the occult accusations come from this thing called the what is it called the TAT tax all hoax was a exposure by Leo taxall intended to mock not only Freemasonry but also the Catholic Church opposition to it.
Right, right, that that that that is a well known hoax. Tax will comes along in the 18th century. It it comes from a guy named Albert Pike is where this all comes from. Pike is a he he is like what he's like the favorite whipping boy of the conspiracy theorists with masonry. He's not a southerner. He's a he's a what's called a copper head. He's from Boston, Massachusetts. But he supported the Confederacy in the American Civil War. He eventually becomes the sovereign Grandmaster of the Scottish
Rite. And he published his book in 1871, called the Morals and Dogma of the Scottish Rite. The book has very little to do with Freemasonry. It's more about comparative religion and symbolism. Essentially, what like, does is hope he'll get into symbolism or something
going on in the ritual. And it'll go back in time and say, Well, you know, this, this to the cult of Mithras meant this and this in the Mystery School of the Egyptians meant bad and to the cult of elite, you know, it just, it's just an epic study of comparative religion and philosophy. And on one page, he compares the planet Venus to Lucifer, which is a correct comparison. And it's because of this comparison that from that point on, Freemasonry is devil
worship. And of course, Pike never intended in any of this. It's just a comparison to Venus, being the son of the morning, being false light, appearing in the eastern sky in the morning before this before the true light, the sunrise, hence its association with Lucifer false light. So a guy comes along, named Leo tag, so it's not his real name, I can't remember what
it is. And he he writes a book called The mysteries of the Freemasons, where he accuses pike of being in charge of this thing called the Palladian right, where it's further high degrees of of the Scottish Rite. And at the end of the, at the end of the degrees, it's revealed that Satan or Lucifer is the god of Freemasonry. It makes a very good bedtime story and a conspiracy theory, but it's a total hoax. Essentially, no, no one believes it in the 21st century anymore.
Yeah. So what the only thing I know, because there's not a lot, obviously, on the internet that I could find, because you're still a secret society, right? There's some things you can't reveal. But what I did find video of was a guy talking about, he left the Freemason, he thought the same he thought it was a cult, he thought it was against the Christian religion, he was a
Christian. And he said something about like, so the initiation ceremony, they put you in this robe, and there's a sword and a sword is pointed at your left breast or something, and you have to swear that you will keep everything within the lodge or something. And that like freaked him out or something. Is that kind of like the ceremony though.
Yeah, I mean, I mean, I mean, it's, it's no different. When I when I joined the lodge in 1996. I had joined a fraternity house a few years earlier, Gettysburg College. And coincidentally, I guess, maybe not coincidentally, the lot. The lodge the fraternity house I was in was Lambda Chi Alpha at Gettysburg College and the guy at at Lambda Chi, who had crafted the ritual, the initiation ritual for Lambda Chi. Not only was his name Mason, he was actually a
Freemason. So I had gone through the ritual at Lambda Chi, and when I joined the Masonic Lodge, you know, you could see where he was got inspiration from because, you know, so many of the of the college fraternity rituals are based on masonry.
And yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's, as you would imagine, you're brought into, you know, darkened, you know, this is all meant for theatrics, and to, you know, leave a lasting impression, you know, it's candle light, you're brought in your lead around, you're blindfolded. And, you know, I mean, it's meant to leave an impression. I have talked to other people who are Christians and had said the same thing.
They said, You know, I went through the ritual was too esoteric for me, it was too occult and I didn't want to do any more. You know, again, you can teach your own whatever. You know, I know Christians who are in masonry who have no problem with it. In fact, in New York, right, you cannot become the highest degree in New York, right? It's the Knights Templar. And you can't actually join the Knights Templar unless you are a Christian. That's one of the unique anomalies with remade
with the Knights Templar. Most of masonry is deistic. You know, you just have to believe in a Supreme Being or the Knights Templar is an exception to that you actually have to be a Christian exalted to the holy royal arch in order to join the Templars. So again, it's just your flavor of Christianity. Some have a problem with it, some don't. You know, whatever.
Yeah, well, I'm always and I'm just so fascinated by these. See grit societies. I don't know if you ever saw the Simpsons episode where the stone cutters. Did you ever see that one? Oh, yeah, I
mean that that song that stone cutter song has been by bumper music on many a show.
Yeah, I mean, I would love to think that is real that if I joined this society, I can go down a secret tunnel, I don't have to go sit in traffic. I mean, that sounds amazing. Like, yeah,
there's nothing like that I just want to show and, you know, I mean, you know, it's, I mean, when you join a lodge, you're gonna meet a lot of eclectic people. I mean, you know, if you need a plumber, I'm sure or whatever that might be one in your lodge who can help you out? I'm a lawyer. I've never had any situation where like, a judge was in my Lodge, and I had some sort of secret thing that, you know, made the case go my way. I've never had anything like
that. But I mean, you know, I mean, I wouldn't join the lodge, for that reason. But yeah, I mean, you're gonna if you when you join, I mean, you're gonna meet a lot of eclectic people, that's for certain.
So what do you think if it's not Freemasons? And maybe maybe it is or it isn't Illuminati, or it's an offshoot of Illuminati? What do you think like all these giant, rich billionaire CEOs? Like, are they in some club? Like maybe we don't even know the name of it? Maybe it's something that's so secretive, that people even know what it's called? Yeah, I
mean, I mean, there are there are globalist organizations. I mean, you know, you have things like the Trilateral Commission Skull and Bones at Yale. That's, that's an interesting one. Because there like I said, there is documentation with that, that that is kind of a reinvention of the Illuminati. I mean, people have to remember the Illuminati started at a university, it was the University of English taught. And you know, that's vice Hupp was a professor and of course, you know, Skull and
Bones is a Yale. So you definitely have a parallel there. And then, of course, you had this one now with like Davos, where it's kind of like, almost out in the open. My take on it is, I mean, I didn't wait, just give you my take is, I mean, to me, it's like a coat coat co-option, or it's been co opted, that's probably the better word is, you know, masonry in the United States was, like I said, was really, you know, the Worldwatch, Masons were the original Deep State. I
mean, it clearly exists today. I don't think it's more tied to nation, I don't think is really tied to masonry anymore. But it's taken what masonry kind of created, haphazardly and has used it, you know, you know, with with within, you know, within like Creek creating, like a state within a state almost. I mean, I show in the book, I mean, without question, the Royal arch Masons were the puppet masters of this country in the early days, their powers
broken. I mean, it's like the Jesuits the powers broken by the Napoleonic Wars. Amazing. Masonry is powers broken with the William Morgan affair. The the political machine, of DeWitt Clinton does survive to an extent. And so people will probably know this name as well. It morphs into something in New York called Tammany Hall, which is under the Protect was under the rulership of a Freemason and an odd fellow named Boss Tweed.
And if you want to kind of see that in action, go watch the movie gangs in New York, that's kind of as close close to it as your as your prey was fine, we'll find, again, more of a 19th century thing. By the 20th century, it's pretty much faded. But clearly, the idea of a deep state, the Central Intelligence Agency, which was I should point out was essentially founded by Skull and Bones, which is a
secret society. You know, it's that co-option of this sort of thing that masonry created, which I think was co opted, that survives to this day. Yeah. Well,
then let's talk about, we kind of move into the movies a little bit here, because it's a good transition with the movie, one of my favorite movies, which I know you've talked about it, so you must enjoy it, too. Is Eyes Wide Shut with Kubrick. Like, I looked at that movie. And I was like, wow, this is crazy. But I think when I saw it, and whenever it came out in 98, or something, I just thought, Oh, this is a fictional, kind of like, interesting movie. But now I look at that stuff. And I go,
is that stuff real? Like, is there really parties like that? Where that I feel like that might there might be some truth in some of those things? Oh, sure.
I mean, Kubrick is one of my favorite filmmakers. Yeah, there's a lot going on in that movie. I probably not as much as something like the shining and maybe some of his other stuff. Very interesting character. Kubrick was, but yeah, when you get into Eyes Wide Shut, I mean, he really begs the question, is
this some sort of documentary? I mean, clearly, you know, there is esoteric, you know, maybe not esoteric undertones in the movie, maybe that's a better word, where one of the things that he does that he really plays around with in this movie is the Christmas lights. You know, whenever there's sort of this, you know, sort of, you know, presented on the screen, you know, whether it be pedophilia, drug addiction, alcoholism, homelessness, it's always accompanied prostitution.
It's always accompanied with these roid glaring, glaring Christmas lights. And it's not the little white soft ones. It's, you know, the big, bright orange, purple, red blue ones. And what what Kubrick does there is he is consciously attaching this in your mind to sort of these ills that plague humanity. But then when you get to the Illuminati sort of secret society, you'll notice that other Christmas lights are blind. And that's done
intentionally by Kubrick. What he's kind of trying to show you is that, you know, forget about the stuff I just showed you with the Christmas lights. This is where the real evil is, is with with these, you know, secret groups working behind the scene? Yeah, I mean, Kubrick's into repetition. I mean, and he, you just can't he just doesn't escape it. I mean, it's really in The Shining. I mean, you have repetition in Eyes Wide Shut with the red floor that resurfaces of the red Bill, you
know, pool table at the end. You got the women doing the Magic Circle, red cloak, you know it. That's a magic ceremony he's doing he's casting the circle left handed. He's going counterclockwise, that's known as bitter shins. That's black magic. And then at the end of the at the end, when they're in the FAO Schwarz, you're gonna see the game on the shelf, the magic or whatever it is magic circle or something like that. Kubrick is constantly using repetition in his movies. That's
an order memory trick. pneumonic repetition is one of the most common ones. So yeah, I mean, Eyes Wide Shut. Interesting movie. This is something I'm working on in the new book. There's a lot of interesting syncs with with with numbers and movies and curses, Eyes Wide Shut, was released on July 16 1999. That's this and they I believe this is linked. That's actually the same day that John F Kennedy Jr. Died. Interestingly enough, so yeah, a lot of things with Kubrick very
interesting character. And I'm a huge fan as a fan of his work.
Yeah, explain this sink thing because I heard you on a SAM Tripoli's podcast. I think that's how I found you. Which is, I mean, you guys really go into with a deep dive with all the numbers that are connected. And you talk about how a lot of these numbers this originated in, was it Aleister Crowley's book?
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I mean, it really, it's really for me, for me, Chuck, this is without question, the most interesting thing I've ever looked at, and examined. And it's a little bit of a backstory, I'll try to go and go into it as brief as briefly as I can. You have to be familiar with something known as solar ages, the precession of the equinoxes, the Age of Pisces, the Age of Aquarius. It all goes back in time and I'm still
researching this. What what I've been led to believe is that there was a Native American death hex put on L. Frank Baum, who is the author of The Wizard of Oz. And the reason I believe that his death curse was after the Battle of Wounded Knee bomb, who wrote The Wizard of Oz, he's heard the novel called for the genocide of Native Americans, and I believe at some point in time, likely, with Cherokee, maybe maybe the Navajo a skinwalker, put a death curse on him. And his fan, what year
would this have been? This would have been like the late 1890s, early 20th century, okay, somewhere in there. What I've led to believe, though, is what for whatever reason, this curse sort of remained inactive, it's dormant. And it doesn't become kinetic until the Wizard of Oz is being made into a movie 3839 that there's no evidence of anything that bomb had problems or any any ill thing happening with bomb or his wife or his sons. It might have caught up to
his sons later on. One of his sons later on, but I'm still looking at that. But it's really in 3839 that this thing comes becomes kinetic with the Wizard of Oz. Why the Wizard of Oz? This is where this thing really starts to take, you know, this really screwball thing with it. There's a British occultist named Aleister Crowley, who, in 1904 had this conversation with this thing called a was this guardian angel who predicted this thing called the AON of
Horus. And if you've read Crawley and believe me he can be very dense. The age of Horus is synonymous with this thing called the Age of Aquarius. It has to do with the sun changing houses, where it's been every 2000 years. So for example, we just left Pisces which is Christianity, the worship of the Sun takes on the personality of the house, it's been for the
last 2000 years. So of course, Pisces as Christianity you know, feet worship, the cleaning Pisces rules, the feed price feeds as follows with the two fishes fisher of men water symbolism all over the place. You know, Christianity syncs with Pisces. Well Crawley gets into this and he says, Well, what is this new age of horse this New Age of Aquarius? What
what is it? You know, what's its worship and what's its God you know, Christ was the you know, the sun god, a Pisces, what's the sun god of Aquarius, and he he answers it. And he says the sun god of Aquarius is this thing called Baphomet. It's the God of the Knights Templar. It's the goat headed God and he gets it a number and he tells you how he gets its number. And it's 77 Is this thing's number and he gets it through through something known as Gematria
through Hebrew Gematria. And then he also gets another number. He says this is the grand killing number. It's the number 42. What makes those two numbers so unique is those two numbers are literally the Wizard of Oz. Because 42 is the rainbow. As in, you can only see a rainbow to 42 degree angle. And 77 is Oz is the name of the is the name of the goat of Mendes. 77 in Hebrew, Gematria is O Z, a Z he goat, oz. And starting in about 3839, you started having tragedies on the
set of Wizard of Oz. And then you had this kind of countdown, where you have these tragedies going on all the way going up to September 11, which is really the main event this is the end of Pisces, the start of Aquarius, where you see these two numbers manifesting all over the place, 77 and 42. And there's another number in there as well. 333, which is the number of this demon known as Corizon. very vicious. And when you look at it, you'll start seeing these numbers just all
over the place. And I am led to believe that what Crawley was saying was correct that this age of horses here and because of his death hex which I don't think Crowley had anything to do with that it's it's these these numbers are being used by this new god, this new Son God to both identify itself and to demand worship. And what makes this so fascinating is Crowley actually answers that question as well. He says, What is this thing one is worship. He says
it's two things. It's transgenderism and climate change. He said, that's what this thing is really into. He doesn't use those words. He uses the words for transgenderism he uses like man, his woman woman is man, epicene, bisexual. And then he gets into things with with climate change about people being concerned about the earth on fire, things of that nature.
And I will I am completely convinced that starting at 3839 when this new age starts to come in to come into being with all these tragedies, whether it be the Kennedy assassination, World War Two, Hiroshima 911, you know, you name it, you will find these numbers just plastering all over the place. And it's essentially this god designated itself as hey, I'm the new god of the age of horse, the Age of Aquarius start worshipping me, this culminates with 911, and it's still continuing on post
911. I think it'll go on for quite some time, until we really get into this age playing another 100 years or so. Yeah,
so I've heard you break down some of that where you find the numbers. And the way you do it. It's interesting, do you? I know you don't want to reveal all the way the methodology behind that. But
I could do that. Oh, go ahead. Go ahead. Ask your question. No, no, I
was just gonna say like, is it statistically significant? Like you plug in other numbers to that methodology? And like, like my birthday 16? Would you put 16 and try this methodology and go okay, well, 16 only shows up like four times. But the other ones, the 77 and 42 are much more so than 16, or, or nine, or 14 or whatever, right?
So the way the way my methodology for doing it is you look at the event, and a lot of times, the number will just stand out, I mean, the number will just stand out. And the mean, those numbers will just stand out, you really don't have to. I mean, they're just there. You use things like Gematria people's names, the you know, the titles of things, dates, will will produce these
numbers. There's four methods of Gematria ordinal, reverse ordinal, Pythagorean reduction, and reverse Pythagoras and reduction of four those are legitimate, they're very easy to explain ordinal is a is a is one, B is two, y is 25. Z is 26. Reverse ordinal is just that backwards where age 26 vs 25 Z would be one, and then you get into the Pythagorean method, where a were the first nine numbers, the first line, the first nine letters stay the
same. So A is one, B is two, you get all the way up to j, which is 10. And ordinal. J stays is 10. But in Pythagorean j becomes one, it goes back to one because it's 10 One plus zero. So one plus zero is one, so j becomes one again, and which is 13 would become four. So that's the way Protagoras reduction works. Reverse Bagaran is just a backwards. So instead of a being one A would be 26. Two plus six is eight. So So A is eight. That's the way that would work.
And you could just take a numbers you can take you can look at events, you can look at dates. And again, the one thing that is unique is when you look at it, and you want to examine it, these numbers will be there. If they're not there. It's not linked. I mean, it's that simple. Chuck, if the numbers aren't there, it's not linked.
But when you look at something like the Murrah building or Columbine or 911, or World War One, Pearl Harbor, I mean those none verbs are, you know, predominant, you can get through the dates you can get through the names of things. I mean, like, for example, I mean, I'd have to pull the pull the document up, because I can't
remember it. But I think if you use the Pythagorean method, the name The Wizard of Oz, the title of the movie, the title book has a value of 77, you know, over the rainbow has a value of 77. So when you start plugging it in, these numbers will start hitting a lot. And that's when you know, you're on the right track. And
you so what is the theory behind this entity or a demon or whatever it is, is using these numbers to kind of like what winked at us or to kind of like, kind of like, tease us or taunt us? Or why does it just show itself in another form? And rise? Or can it not doesn't have the power to do that? Or what is the theory behind that
this is this is the way it's doing it. This is the way it's using these numbers. Because the numbers, the number is a number and it can't be argued with. And it's using these numbers to designate itself. That's the best way I can do it. Describe it, it's using its numbers to designate itself to identify itself to let it's to let you know it's here.
The one thing if you read Crawley, and he gets into this, I mean, like I said, Read, you know, when when this thing was dictated to him by this holy guardian angel a was I mean, the one thing he says is, you know that this, you know, why, why is these? Why is this number always associated with like bloodshed and tragedy? And he answers that question in the book of The Lord said, there's new god is a bloodthirsty monster,
essentially. So it's no wonder I mean, one of the things he says is it'll give human kind of war machine, this has been interpreted as the nuclear bomb. And, again, what what, what, what I believe is, it's these numbers that pop up in these or turn up in these tragedies starting around 3839, with the Wizard of Oz, you know, being made, and it continues one, and it gives us all the way up to
911. And it's been continuing one post 911 I think it will continue on until we are well out of places, and this thing gets its worship proper. Otherwise, I think this thing is going to start, you know, keep killing people. And like I said, I'm still looking at this because, you know, it's still playing out. But I guarantee you that the Israeli conflict will have these numbers in it the Ukrainian conflict fairly well.
But one that we just had in Lewiston, Maine, 42, and 77 are all over the place on that thing. And, you know, it's it's, it's, it's the way of saying, hey, you know, I'm here, I'm kind of the spiritual force behind these things. Well, and
you said, this is interesting, because you tie Kobe Bryant's death into some of this, too. Now, why him? Was he interested in the occult? Or why why was he a victim of this? It's,
it's not I don't think I don't think it's, it's him being involved with the cult. It's numbers that that this thing is a number based this this, this curse that I believe originated with the Native Americans. This is almost like a side effect of this curse. And like I said, it what makes this thing so unique is that it latched on to Crowley's Gematria, with these two numbers, 77 and 42, which are the Wizard of Oz, which is bounced stories. It revolves around numbers more than
anything else. The thing that I find is if people if if a person has these numbers around them, it's not good. And with Kobe Bryant these numbers, these two numbers, 77 and 42. Are all over the place, Kubrick as well. I mean, you know, I can I can put this thing around Kubrick I can put it around Michael Jackson, I can put it around. Robin Williams, I can put it around Lady Diana. And, you know, it's the numbers are what's dooming
the person. And the best way I can describe it to you is for me, it's like watching a lottery drawling. It's like if one, one number pops up. Yeah, not so great. Two numbers pop up. Yeah, you know, you're maybe Okay, three numbers pop up, well, you better start worrying for numbers pop up. You're not good. And if that fifth number pops up, I mean, you're dead. I mean, that's the way this thing works.
So if you won them all lottery and the numbers were like 70, sevens and 40 twos, you should get rid of the money because Give it to me, right? Because,
you know, it's funny, you mentioned that it's funny, you mentioned that because it's not necessarily. I mean, you know, it's like, like I said, if you're if you're the one thing that let me say this and I'll tell two stories on this, there's one thing I left out on all this. And this is what makes this death hex and this thing, utterly McCobb and it's the most McCobb thing I've
ever looked at. When you look at all these tragedies, whatever it is, there's always some latent Wizard of Oz reference in there, whether it be Columbine or the Murrah building or 911. There's always this hidden little wizard of oz citation in there, whether it's to Ruby, or you know, Ruby rage Jack Ruby, there will always be some sort of allusion to the ruby slippers, Yellow Brick Road, Wizard of Oz.
There's always some little latent Wizard of Oz citation in there that makes this thing really morbid.
And didn't Kobe Bryant dresses Wizard of Oz for his last Halloween, right?
I mean, this was what I got into with Sam, I said, when I was looking at the Kobe Bryant stuff, you just see the number 77 all over the place, you'll see the number 42. But I'm thinking to myself, well, there can't possibly be a Kobe Bryant Wizard of Oz reference in here. I googled Kobe Bryant, Wizard of Oz. And sure enough that his last Halloween him in his family costume is the Wizard of Oz characters. Not good, very bad. So you know, that that wouldn't be like the fifth lottery ball
as it were. And then, of course, the helicopter that he was doing. I you know, I had to go look this up, I'd have to pull it up again. But the number 77 was all around that. And he died like seven months before its 42nd birthday. So I mean, there's number 42 Is this kill curse, the Crowley identifies this thing. He calls it the Dark Mother. This is the number 42. This is the like the Kill number of this thing. And it's linked to 77 through the Wizard of Oz. It was funny, you know, and I'll
mention this. If you liked the Wizard of Oz, and you'd like listening to the soundtrack, I mean, I have the movie here on Blu ray. I mean, you don't have to throw it away. I mean, if you have a cookie man, you know, a tin man cookie jar in your kitchen, or wicked witch cookie jar, you don't have to get rid of it. It doesn't seem to operate like that. It's more on numbers. I remember. And this is a true story. This was about six months, probably less than that.
Four months ago, maybe three. I was driving my car and I was driving to work. And it was either Monday or Wednesday morning. And I was approaching the railroad track and I had to cross a railroad, the light rail were on my way to work and the thing comes down, you know the thing because the trains gonna go by it. I remember sitting there thinking to myself just about looking at some of these
numbers. I remember saying to myself, you know, if I'm on the right track here, you know, give me a sign, you know, let me know, you know that I'm on the right track with these numbers with this death hex. If not, you know, don't give me a sign. Chuck and this is a true story. I'll swear to this on a stack of Bibles. I look up and I'm sitting there thinking to myself, I had the radio on but was turned on. Like I said, the trains whizzing by I looked up and there's a truck in front of
me. It's a license plate. expired in July. I'm here in Maryland. So I have a red seven in front of me for July. expire like in 2000. You know 25 To plus five is seven. And then it's its license plate number and I'm not making this up. You ready for this was 077777 was its license plate number. I thought Well, if that's ever a sign that I'm on the right track, that was it. That's crazy. So
what about the Wizard of Oz? Sounds so fascinating. What about that whole Wizard of Oz? Pink Floyd the wall synchronicity thing. Is that part of this hole? Or is that just a totally different? Coincidence?
No, I don't think it is at all there are things that carry this death hex forward. And I don't think it's you know, you know, it's like a subconscious thing. The thing with Dark Side of the Moon with Pink Floyd, what makes that interesting is if you look at the cover of the album, it's the rainbow of course. 42. That's the rainbow perception of the rainbow. Darkside of Moon is 42 minutes long. I don't think a lot of people are aware of that.
And of course, the idea is if you sync this to the third third line war of the MGM and you sync the soundtrack to The Wizard of Oz he releases it reveals it's like you know a cult secrets. I've never tried it I should try
it. I've talked to people who've done into yet works perfectly I've talked to other people said not so much but yeah, I mean, I mean you will find this this thing's you know, centering around things that you know anything that's you know, can be Wizard of Oz related Yeah, I mean, you know, you you will find inevitably, possibly, you know, this the this hex hexa related to it the one the one that was really interesting was the one the the other one that's real fascinating was it's the
what's the name of that band? Yellow Electric Light Orchestra. They have a record out called Eldorado you know, the yellow brick road the yellow road the Golden Road, I guess it would be and on the album cover is the scene where Dorothy is captured by the Wicked Witch and she's in the tower and the Wicked Witch is trying to get the ruby slippers and she gets the lightning's that you get sat by the slippers. That's the album
cover. What makes this interesting is a couple of things is that album was used as a soundtrack to the Kenneth anger movie when it was re released, which was the one with Marley Cameron. What's that movie? The one she was Jack Parsons girlfriend. This is the whole Aleister Crowley Felina movie. Oh, what's what's the name of that movie? Hang on. Let me pull this up. Which who's a starring Marjorie Cameron. She was Jack Parsons girlfriend, Cameron. I'm not sure if I know
that one. She's in the kind of anger movie or inauguration of a pleasure dome. That that was it. It wasn't Scientology. Yeah, I think it was I think it was inauguration of the pleasure dome that that was used as a soundtrack. But But what makes it so unique is that, that move that soundtrack that image on, on the on that album cover of the Wicked Witch getting zapped that is exactly the 77 minutes of the movie. And if you have the blu ray, which I do, it
seemed 42 of all things. So again, you know, you know, here are these numbers turning up related to the Wizard of Oz sort of perpetuating this hex into modernity. So
with the 666, that's a different thing that's not related to this. Curse or hex,
no, well, well, the problem I have with 666 is that's really the antiquity the number of the sun. That's co-opted In the book of Revelation. Six Sigma is a 6x six to me, that's the number of the sun. That's the summer of the magic cube the sun's magic cube. So yeah, you know, I wouldn't I wouldn't read too much into 666 if you if you read Crawley what Crawley does is he he if you look at like the number seven in the Bible and Islam that's the High Holy number is seven. I mean, that's
irrefutable. For only when he writes his works, if there he gets this message from a while he was he creates a new system of Jim Gematria and a new system of numbers. And he says everything you knew before that's in the Bible, you throw that out. He's like, That's the Old Age of Pisces, you can get rid of that. He said, um, you know, this is the new system for this age, of course, this Age of Aquarius, if you read his work, and mean, here's the book. I mean, this is the one you want
to take a look at. This is 777 and other cabbalistic writings of Aleister Crowley, he gives you a new numeric system and he says he says for the age of Horus, he said, ie seven is thoroughly evil. 77 is the go to men, as you know, you know, sort of this bloodthirsty solar Godhead, and 777 is thoroughly evil. 42 is the death hex 333 Is this demon Corazon. And he gets into other numbers as well. Another major number and this is for 18. That's Abracadabra. That's the magic word of the New
Age. 156 is before a Babylon. So and what what he specifically says he says this is this, these numbers are important post 1904 for 1904. I don't care. This is all post 1904 for this new age of Horus this New Age of Aquarius.
And how did he get this information? He did some sort of ritual or something like that or? Right,
right? That's right. He goes to Egypt with his wife. And he he had adopted the number 666 as himself. And if you read Crowley again, he identifies it with the sun. He thought it was he he did his astrology. And when he was born, I think the moon or something the sun may have been ascendant in Leo. He thought Leo the Lion is the beast of Revelation that you know, Leo is the soul house of the sign son is 666. He goes to Egypt with his wife, they go into the pyramids, his wife, Rose knew
nothing about the occult. And he starts getting she starts talking to him about how he's offended Horace, and you know, he needs to go to this museum. He goes to this museum, he sees this thing called the called the engraving or the Stelly of Revelation. It's the sun god Horus. It's number 666 identifies it with the sun with himself. And he goes back to his wife and she says, You got to do these rituals. You were doing them wrong, do it this way. And
he does it. And finally she says, If you're going to your study for these three days, I think it's April 10 11th 12th, I'd have to look, I have the book right here, you're going to you're going to encounter this this guardian angel of yours that you were trying to summon at bolus can house a few years earlier. And it identifies itself as a loss. And it dictates to him this thing called the Book of the Law,
LIBOR LV leeches. And this is sort of the mantra, the thalamic mantra of the New Age, do what thou wilt, which is a number of value is 93. That's a Weiss's number also is 93. And this is going to be the mantra throughout the whole late for this new age. And he gets in there and he says, if you read the book, he says Crowley says some of this stuff is prophecy. He says, You know, I don't know what it means. He said, I'm writing it in. It's being
dictated and be in 1904. But when you read it, I mean, yeah, you could definitely see some prophetic vision in there. He mentioned things about twins, you think Twin Towers. He mentioned something called RP STOVL. This is thought to relate to Lee Harvey Oswald. He relates he talks about there's a couple other things in there. It's just the escaping me right now. But he says if you read as people, you know, look at as a book of prophecy. And again, this is sort of the, the, you know,
Bible of the New Age. From there on out, Crowley spends the rest of his life creating things for this new age. He writes, he invents a tarot deck. For this new age called the, you know, the Egyptian tarot deck, he writes a book about how to interpret this tarot deck called the Book of Thoth, he creates a dramatic Gematria for this system for this new age, which I just held up the book. And he analyzes stuff, and it's very complex. People have been
oftentimes kind of ignored. When they talk about cry, they'd like to talk about the things he did. If you really sit down and read this guy, what makes it really interesting now looking back 100 years later, I mean, everything he was talking about is playing out. I mean, everything he talked about is happening or is happening or has happened. So this guy really must have been in touch with some dark force here. And I don't think there was a fraud at all, I think I think this guy was some sort of
Prophet of some kind. And like I said, you know, everything he was talking about is now playing out right before our very eyes. It's amazing.
So what do you think of Anton LaVey? And he I think he founded the church of Satan. Was he using Crowley's work as a springboard? Or is it totally unrelated? No, it's
probably totally unrelated. If you read LaVey he wasn't impressed by Crowley, he didn't he didn't think much of Crowley LaVey LaVey is a bit of a huckster. He's a bit of a showman. I, you know, the, the big issue with the trip? Well, I mean, at the biggest show, I mean, it's it's LaVey was kind of like Crowley in the aspect is neither one of them believe in the devil. I mean, I know that may sound funny to hear. But what LaVey basically was using Lucifer and the devil as a symbol of
rebellion. I mean, it was essentially, you know, a sort of a church of you can, you know, people to explore things that society considered taboo. So in that aspect, they just use Lucifer or Satan as an emblem of rebellion. The book that LaVey wrote the the first one, the Satanic Bible is based heavily, it's plagiarized by a book called might is right, by a guy who wrote anonymously or used a pen name called Ragnar red beard. If you read that, you're gonna see a lot of stuff that
LaVey plagiarized. There was a guy in the church of state and who kind of punked out LaVey in this in the 1970s, called Michael Aquino. And he created he was in the church of state Satan. He's a, he came out and said he was a fraud, had plagiarized all this stuff. And he creates this thing called the Temple of set, which he says, you know, quote, unquote, the real, you know, satanic worship Aquino's an interesting character because he was, I think, a colonel or something in
the United States military. And he is the guy who always, you know, from there being sort of the satanic cabal in the United States government. Aquino was the guy they always turn to. With that. And Aquino is also he did a lot of interviews in the late 70s and early 80s. But then Libya had kind of gotten out of it and was more, you know, kind
of just almost semi retired. And Aquino was the guy who spawned the thing called the Satanic Panic of the 1980s, where people were believing or not believing, or, you know, having these memories that there were these roaming. You know, cults of Satanists abducting children performing blood rituals. Whether it was true or not, is debatable. But Aquino was always kind of sort of credited, not intentionally, but sort of being
a force behind that. You know, because of this temple was said, if you want to see that in the movie, go watch. There was a movie that tie WestEd I think in 2009, called House of the devil, they delve into that. Oh, yeah, that's a good one. Yeah, that's a very good movie that delves into that. So now, that's sort of my take on the day, I have a
lot of his literature here. My favorite book by him that I use, actually, in my work of fiction that I kind of, not used in, but kind of I model, I use his philosophy. He's a book. I mean, his two main books that he wrote was the Satanic Bible and the satanic rituals. He wrote another book that people are lesser known, that's lesser known called the complete witch, or what to do in virtue fails.
This is probably kind of this is where he gets into, like, how a witch should dress, how she should behave, how she should costume herself. I kind of use that when I was reading a pact with the devil, kind of like, you know, kind of reading that to help a witch behave, stuff like that. That's kind of you know, I use that as sort of inspiration. I was doing my work of fiction. So I mean, LaVey is not without warning. But know
the Church of Satan. You know, like I said, when LaVey found it was more probably for showmanship than anything else. Any draw drew big people to them. I mean, Jane Mansfield, Sammy Davis, Jr. You know, so certainly LaVey got a lot of attention out of it.
Is there somebody now that's kind of the modern version of these guys, that's that's alive right now that's writing books and speaking about these things?
Well, you know, I've had, you'd have to go look up and see who I believe one of the vase daughters is running the Church of Satan. Now, I can't remember which one. I mean, it's still active. I mean, it's still alive and kicking. I mean, it's not defunct. I don't think it's in San Francisco anymore, which was where it was originally headquartered. I think it's in New York now. But I mean, it's still an active, you know,
church. And, you know, if you're so inclined, you can still join the Church of Satan to this very day. Like I said, I believe it's run by one of the vase, you know, daughters, I believe, or maybe granddaughters at this point, I don't know. But it's still an active, you know, organization.
So do you think some of that you'd like you said, is it just kind of, to explore things that are taboo in society? And to kind of do the opposite of the Christian church? Or do you think some of that stuff is real with the occult? I mean, cuz you seem to be a believer in this heck so?
Well, I mean, I mean, I don't I don't think a hex is related to the Church of Satan, if that's what you're asking me? I don't see any.
So but I mean, you do believe in some of this occult stuff is real. But the church of Satan might be just a fraud kind of thing?
Well, right. I mean, you would have to show me the number 7742 around this thing. I mean, that that's, that's the tail. And that's the tail on this thing is is is, is, you know, until I start seeing these numbers around this thing, you know, I mean, not not every catastrophe is possibly related to this thing. I had to see those numbers to link it in to, you know, it's a couple things
you have to look for. But like I said, until I tell I would have to see, but but the church of Satan isn't, you know, a catastrophe. I mean, it's centered around bloodletting is what this thing anytime there's people dying, especially children, that's where you want to look for these numbers. Yeah,
well, that. That's a good transition to the next question. So explain my audience, this really fascinating connection. We talked a little bit about Kobe Bryant, what about Michael Jackson, because you said that he went to a psychic. And the psychic misinterpreted this and said the number 77 is good, and you should use it more.
Right? This is true. It starts with Jackson, I got to pull up my book for this, I got to pull up my notes because I'll never be able to remember. So I'm just open the Word document here. Let's see here.
Yeah, cuz this was I found this part really fascinating. I mean, there is a lot of these connections. But that one especially was interesting, because if there is some sort of occult thing that he could have opened up a door by going to that psychic, it's kind of interesting.
Here we go. Let me but what
a bad psychic to tell him to use it more.
I mean, well, here I mean, here's the here's what I mean. Like I said, it's some of this stuff. And what I want you to stretch is some of this stuff is inadvertent that's the thing it's beyond your control like so for example, the name Mike I mean, his full name is Michael Joseph Jackson. A Michael seven letters Joseph seven letters, Jackson, seven letters. So we're dealing with 777. What have you read Crowley, that's the evil forces of the Kabbalah martial
mats thoroughly evil is 777. So I mean, his name alone is not good. What makes this really really strange is it's, it's his name. It's if you if you hear his name, Michael Joseph Jackson in Gematria has a reverse ordinal value of 343. Okay, that's seven cubed. That's astounding. He is born on August 29 1958. That's nearly 19 years to the date of the Wizard of Oz is released back in 1939. Plus four days, so each kid's birthday almost sinks with the release release of the Word
Wizard of Oz. He's involved with the Wizard of Oz. Again, remember, we have to have a Wizard of Oz illusion here. It doesn't work. And of course, he plays the Scarecrow in 1970 nines, excuse me, 97 eights, The Wiz which is a black lecointre Black blaxploitation pastiche of The Wizard of Oz, he placed the Scarecrow in that if you if you apply the word scarecrow to Pythagorean reduction in Gematria, you get the number 42. I mean, there's the Dark Mother, there's there's the death hex.
If we if we move along, let's see here. I mean, again, you're gonna find the number seven, you know, all over this guy's life. I mean, I'm 42 Let's see here. Might his album off the wall has a 42 minute runtime plus 37 seconds, throw or has a 42 minute runtime 16 seconds. So I mean, this is these are bad numbers. Probably not aware he was doing this. And that's why I said it's quite inadvertent Kubrick was the same way so was
Robin Williams. It's always Kobe Bryant is to his to we got 77 He had to his number one was to longest number ones were Billie Jean in 1982 and black or white, which is 91 who are both at the top of the church for seven weeks seven seven. Neverland Ranch has a value of 77 using jaggery in production, and its address is 5225 Ferguson Ferger row mountain road 5225 five plus two 725 Two plus five 777 Not good. In the late 80s, early 90s Jackson was beginning to figure
this out. This is when he's been having financial problems and this stuff with pedophilia was beginning to surface and he went to a psychic and they were using the old biblical high sheen take on this that seven was a positive number. And again, if you look at the Bible, and you look at Islam, seven is the High Holy number. Not so much in the age of Horus. And again, that's
what we're into now. So this psychic gave him some bad advice because if you look at like the history album, he's got the 777 armband when his network newsletter was network seven, you'll find the number seven on the dangerous LP on a hat that the one little kid is wearing. Dangerous by the way has a 77 minute run time. He wore on on on he had he wore during his concert, the history concert, he had metallic leg guards, each
one had a number seven. If you watch the movie or the video scream, he wears the number seven on his black vinyl bodysuit, blood on the dance for four albums forming the number seven. And then again, you know whether whether this was conscious or subconscious again, this is just you know, this death hack striking he signed his last will and testament on July 7 77 is televised funeral was seven years later on 709. Again, this is all that text numbers. Very, very bad. He died
in Oh, on June 13 2005. That's a day with 42 value using reverse photography and production. He was found not guilty in the 14 counts. 14 seven plus seven. Let's see here. He died in a mansion in the humbly Hills neighborhood with a zip code of 90077 and an area code of 42 for 42. Again, and he died. Let's see here. There was one other thing that was screwy with him. I'm not seeing it. So yeah, I mean, I mean, that's there. Yeah, that's Michael Jackson with these numbers that are just
kill you. I mean, the the you know, I mean, if you have these numbers around you, I mean, you're you know, you're dead. Michael Jackson's final LP, was released on October 3, I mean, what you'll find in a lot with his decks, death hacks a lot also is and this is another fascinating aspect is you're gonna find overlap, you'll find one tragedy, and you'll find a tie into another tragedy like, like, for example, with the Kennedy assassination, you will inevitably find a nexus to 911
or something. Same thing with Michael Jackson on 911, which was, you know, obviously, September 11 2001. It was 49 days later, which is seven squared on October 30, which was my 30th birthday, which, which is he released his final album, called invincible, and invincible has a 77 minute runtime. Very bad. I mean, you know, this is just all 70 sevens. This is all 40 twos. That's the Kill number. And it's no wonder this guy is pushing up daisies to get daisies at this point. So yeah, and another
another curse number. This doesn't have to do with with, with Croley. But but this comes from the Middle East is is what's called the curse of 39. I don't know if you've ever heard of that one. You have or have not. Now I've not heard of that. Okay, well, there in the Middle East, there's a thing called the curse of 39. Which is, which is never any good. If if it revolves around 39. And if the curse hits you, it has to do with you being famous, and your
tragedy will strike you. And of course with the Wizard of Oz, The Wizard of Oz was published in 1900. And the movie was released in 1939 39 years later, Michael Jackson one held 39 Guinness World Records. So again, we have the curse of 39. There was there's an interesting sink with this is if you ever seen the movie The Exorcist. All right, yeah, yeah. With with Linda Blair. If you ever been to the steps in Georgetown, they were originally called the
Hitchcock steps. They were they're now called The Exorcist steps. But up until the movie came out, they were called the Hitchcock steps. And why would they call the Hitchcock steps a Hitchcock had an espionage thriller called the 39 steps. And that's how they got their name just as a reference. Of course, The Exorcist is the heart, you know, is the scariest movie ever made, and that's because it has Baphomet ik energy in it. What do I mean?
Well, as you would probably agree with me, the staircase is a character in the movie right there in Georgetown in between prospect and M. And of course the steps have What else? 75 steps and two landings 75 plus 277. So, you know, again, this is investing these this movie with this bleak, you know, terrifying Baphomet ik energies coming from the goat of Mendes. So yeah, I mean, I mean this This to me is the subject matter is a big portion of my next
book. And for me, Chuck, you know, this is, without question one of the most interesting things I've ever looked at. Yeah,
well, what about I know that we can't break down all the movies that you talk about? People got to get the books, but can you just explain a little bit about the movie Lost Highway by David Lynch? I don't know if that's which book if that's in the next one? Or if you've already written about that? Because that was the star movie. Is that what is going on in there? There's some symbol symbolism there.
Oh, yeah. I mean, that's what movie I broke down into second book. Yeah. I mean, I mean, when you're dealing with Lynch, I mean, I wouldn't have time to get into it all right now. But when you're dealing with Lynch, you are dealing with heavy heavy lifting. I mean, without question his movies. When I analyze one of his movies, it usually takes up a huge portion of the book. I mean, I did in cinemas symbols, number three, I
did Twin Peaks. And that was the whole TV series, and whatever was the one movie and then the new show. I mean, that just took forever. Yeah, I mean, what last last highway. I mean, it has to do with a lot of what last highway revolves around is what's known as negative theology. And that is kind of, it's hard to explain, and I'll try to do it real real quickly. It's, it's you become, it has to do with becoming a act. Again,
it ties into Gnosticism. But it's ultimately a theology that you can attain divinity by doing the by the becoming like anti God, by doing the opposite of God, you become like God, because you can't know God. If you do opposite of God, if you become like, God. And this is sort of what last highway revolves around. Because you have the guy that built the Bill Pullman character at the beginning, Friday, I think it
is, or whatever it is. I can't remember let me let me pull up the movie just like get these characters correct. And a one second Yeah,
cuz that movie was so I mean, it's been a while since I've seen it before. It's so yeah, actor in it is a What's the famous actor in it that ended up literally killing his wife in real life. So Robert Blake was the man he's so creepy in that movie.
Yeah, it's it's Pullman played Fred Madison, and he's a jerk. And he said, Oh, kills his wife. But then he goes to jail. And he morphs into this guy named Pete Dayton. And the idea is, it's like I said, it's really an explanation of negative theology. It's by being a jerk and B being a monster, he actually morphs into this very cool person. Pete, so it's the idea of negative theology. You'll find it in the word in the philosophical works of this book called The works of the
pseudo Dionysius. It's part of the lost teachings of Christianity. But in Lincolnshire, you are inevitably whatever it is, whether it's blue velvet, or Lost Highway, Twin Peaks, Eraserhead, you're always dealing with these heavy heavy lifting, of gnostic, you know, theological undercurrents that are highly, highly complex.
And so what do you think all this stuff means? Like, is there something that we should be doing to fight this stuff? Or is it just to recognize it and respected or?
Well, yeah, I mean, I mean, it depends on how it's being used. There's no one answer to this. I mean, I would always say, you know, yeah, be conscious of it. But, I mean, I don't because because the director decides to encode latent occult, undercurrents that doesn't make it evil per se. You know, at least in my opinion, I mean, it could be but you know, again, you just have to look at each individual movie
and just analyze it. I mean, what I'm, I mean, movies that don't like to movies, and we won't have time to get into it, that are just overwrought with a lot of occult, esoteric themes. symbolisms I mean, or like Kubrick's the shining, Black Swan by Darren Aronofsky, Darren Aronofsky is constantly overloading his films with with stuff, airy astir the same
thing. You know, but again, just because it's mystical in nature, in my opinion, that doesn't mean that it's a negative attribute, or can be negative it can be but again, each movie has to be looked at in my opinion in an individual case study.
Okay, awesome. Well, yeah, and there's a three cinema books that you have out in the fourth one is coming. Correct.
There's cinema symbolism, one, two and three, they're out. Part four is being worked on right now. For probably won't be out what won't be out until 2025. And the reason I can say that is number one is this is incredible. This this death curse thing is incredibly heavy lifting material. Number two is there's a movie I want to see before I put it out. The first movie was
overloaded with stuff. I'm talking about the Joker movie with Joaquin Phoenix, part two of that with Lady Gaga is coming out, I believe in October, like 11 months away. The first movie had all sorts of interesting imagery in it. Part two, I suspect well, as well. So I'm not going to release anything until after I see that. So right now I'm targeting probably like, you know, like a spring 2025 release for cinema symbolism for. Okay, great.
Well, you'll have to come back on the show. And we can talk more, because there's obviously a lot to discuss here. So I appreciate you coming on anything else you want to promote here?
Yeah, no, just Hang on one sec. Let me just close this out. You know, I just say, Chuck, you know, thanks again, for having me on your podcast. It was my pleasure to be here. I'll just conclude by saying if you're interested in me, and interesting what I had to say just visit my webs. Excuse me, visit my website. It's very easy to find it's very easy to navigate. My website is my name. My name is Robert W. Sullivan, the fourth
website in the show notes and then people could just click there. And
there's links there about me where to buy the book links to buy the book. Podcasts such as this will be posted in the blog, and the media and press SEC section. So you know, check back, it's constantly being updated. And yeah, if it's in if it's in the notes, you can find it. Awesome. Thank
you so much, Robert. Thank you, Chuck. For me. Oh,
my pleasure.
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