Reed Diamond (actor)

and theater, but also music. And then he's got lots of great stories about working with Brad Pitt, George Clooney, and Malcolm McDowell, plus some exciting stuff he's got coming out soon, including the new show about Watergate, called gaslit, with Sean Penn, and Julia Roberts, and so much more, so don't go anywhere. You're the professional? Let's know. That's

what I always it's so funny, because we interview all these musicians and stuff. And I'm always asking about lighting and like, Don't you guys have to you're on stage? Don't you have to know the lighting on like, I just play guitar that somebody else does that? zactly? Is that how you are to that? Like, do you just go and act and somebody else does the lighting and tells you where to stand on the blocking and all that?

sense of you. So that's the hardest part right now about I think, is that they're seeing your performance or seeing whatever the character is that you're going to do for them, but they don't really get a sense of per se unless they know you who you are.

something. You would go to his set and just like feel like energized like yes, this is this feels right.

wall. So you'd have the news, you'd have Romper Room, you'd have the Joe Franklin show set you'd even had before they move to an actual bowling alley, they've made a bowling alley for the game show Bowling for dollars. And all you would do just like how they did back in live TV days. They just move the camera around to each set. And then like that set. I mean, it was pretty. It was. Yeah, it was a magical place. I mean, because I spent a lot of time at my

dad's work. My dad was the two directors there at the station who directed all of the shows. So I kind of had free run of the place. And it was sort of a magical world to live in, which I kind of got to revisit when I did good night and good luck because when we were doing sort of the CBS stuff from Edward, our morose period, there were a

lot of similarities. In fact, the character that I played, which I didn't even know until after I'd done the movie, my dad told me the character I played had been one of my dad's bosses, at one of his first TV jobs were just crazy, right? You know, it's a small world in New York, but it was a magical place to play because I'd sit while they even if it was very quiet. I could just be somewhere else on the stage while they were shooting the news or shooting when the other shows I'd sit on.

I remember he had you know what's exciting when you're a kid chairs with wheels had rolly chairs and I'd roll back and and I play with some of the props from Romper Room. I remember they had the those, those inflatable clowns that used to punch the punch, you know and so yeah, I learned

the control room. And now, you know, we've got, I mean, I've got more power and bandwidth in my house, they had an entire control room, but it's an all analog world. It was really sexy, because I remember, it felt like you're in Mission Control. I mean, it was called the control room and my dad would be in there and you'd have an analog chromatic stopwatch.

And he'd be like, camera two, camera three, because he you know, he had half hour to get the thing in and new in the commercials, but it's, there's no, there's nothing digital. It was all and it was, he always seemed like it was he seemed super cool, super sexy. I think everyone was attracted to it, because it's like, it's such a powerful position. And there's so much pressure and stress. And he handled it with such great, so it was really cool to be part

of that in that world. And then he directed this show called The Joe Franklin show. I don't know if you're familiar with it.

like a really cool show. Because you'd have all these celebrities, and you'd have all of these people who are never going to be celebrities, like I say, who like play Oregon in Piscataway, New Jersey at some, you know, Vinnies Bar and Grill but like, he treat them all, like they were stars. And it was magical. So I'd sit there and all these people come through, I mean, Bing Crosby, and you know, and Barbra Streisand, and all of these people would come through and be on the show. So I was

exposed to that. So it was kind of, um, it's a piece of time that doesn't exist anymore, you know, that that world of live TV in New York, and it was still even for the, you know, the biggest city in America, or, you know, one of the most important cities in the world, it was still very basic in the way it was done. You know, I always feel, I feel grateful that I got to live the transition from the fully analog world and live in that fully analog world and into

the digital world. Because there there were some it was a magical

time. And so it was, it was right at Time Square right at 42nd Street, and it had all this crazy energy. I say like 42nd Street, the time was all movie theaters only showing Triple X movies or kung fu movies. And right, that's all it was. But it still had all of the sort of things that have been there since the 40s. The the Winston ad with the with the blows out of steam, you know, the guys smoking and it it had this

energy in this magic. And also, you know, it wasn't credibly dangerous and seedy at the same time. But it was really cool to get to spend so much time and with my dad at work. And as far as like it making me want to become an actor or the firt my first professional gig I guess. But firstly, we used to have to do at Channel Nine. All the kids of the of the people who work there would come and do the

Christmas promos. So like, on behalf of my family and the entire WR family, we want to wish you a happy holiday season. Right? That was like the first thing I ever did from the camera. I remember being so nervous the first time I did it, you try to wait to see when it was going to air like he would find out because probably because there were so many kids who have the people who work there. So you knew like Oh, on 4:36pm on December 27 Your promos gonna air so you'd watch

it. But uh, but then, and then, you know, through Joe Franklin, because of you know, he was such a institution and everyone came on he always had access to, he'd go to every opening night of all the Broadway shows. And then he always got extra tickets. So I think predominantly most of the shows that I saw probably were tickets that Joe had given my dad. And and so I got to see a lot of an amazing Theater, which was, you know, profoundly

transformational for me. I mean, I remember seeing the original cast of Pippin and 1975. And but I think you know, and then we got to see the show that really, I often think this was the one that had the most profound effect on me. The original production of Sweeney Todd, the Stephen Sondheim. Ah,

magnificent. And so I remember, it seemed traditional plays were the curtains drawn in the traditional musicals the curtains drawn and the orchestra is in the pit and they you know, he's here The overture and you feel those butterflies and that excitement of the show starting. But this was this really crazy thing that was like I think was the Urus theater. And there was no screen, there was no curtain, the and they pulled the set went all the way back to sort of the bricks and the bones of the

theater. And they built this sort of cast iron industrial revolution, very bear set. And then they had this revolving piece that came in the middle that were where the the pie shop and where his barbershop was, but it was stark, and it was open, and you're so you're already in a mood, you're feeling this late, you know, 19th century England Industrial Revolution, and there's something very hard about it, and then the steam whistle goes

off. And that's what starts it, it shows you and you're in it. So it was the first time and I just remember I mean, that's it's my favorite musical of many musicals. And and that was another thing you know, my dad had an extraordinary collection, I guess my mom and my dad, but of musical theater of LPs and I, my earliest memories are just laying on the floor five and listening to Barbra Streisand in Funny Girl and playing those LPs and that had, so all of the raw materials for making me want to

become an actor. We're all there. I'm listening to musicals. And yes, my dad's in television, and I'm, I'm going down to Time Square in the theater district all the time. And, and, and all of those musicals and plays that I saw at that time, profoundly affected me. I mean, I can remember them better than most of my childhood memories.

that time is very evocative for me. Having grown up there, I mean, so all of the Met films I mean, still my favorite film to this day is Dog Day Afternoon. ALPA chino. It's really good. John Cazale and ALPA Chino, and the story, I think, right. It's a true story. Yeah, I mean, based on a true story, right? Yeah. He he robbed the bank so he can help his his partner get a sex change operation and, and it's an A, but it's an amazing

movie. And it's a it's a beautiful piece of on New York, then all those the net movies from then are profoundly influential Serpico and Dog Day Afternoon, and of course, all of the I mean, the 70s it's, I feel very fortunate that I got to grow up then. Because it wasn't artistically it was a profoundly fertile time. I mean, in music, obviously. I mean, I always joke my friends, would you go, you know, when they when, you know, some Rolling Stone, whoever will come out with like, the top 100

Songs of the 70s? Like, how could you possibly do that? You can't? And? Well, because it's in every genre. I mean, yeah. In every genre. You have country music in Seoul, and I mean, disco in raw. Got it? Yeah, just. And it's amazing thing, how much music was created in Sonic landscapes that we'd never seen before? I mean, heard before. Sorry, we'd never heard before that. I mean, you know, the Beatles, you know, first came on the scene 6263. And my God by like, by 76, we've got

the Sex Pistols. And you know, and it's amazing how much it happened. I mean, popular music in the 70s. But I even think about all this, just the regular rock bands that now I mean, it's such a different time. And so my, and you know, the younger people can get upset with me now. But I go, like, if you made the best 100 Songs of the last 10 years, that'd be okay. But I don't think they'd even I don't, you know, but it's also you don't get to pick the time you

live in. So there are always created these incredibly fertile times. And then there are these fallow times. I mean, we could have all grown up in the era of marching band music. And you know, John, John Phillips is the best thing going. But the 70s were this incredible times we come out of the 60s, which, you know, obviously been revolutionary in the change music and the changing culture

and the changing politics. And, and then, it was just so fertile in every realm, so much great theater, so many admit, but I think most of my favorite movies are all from the 70s. And it's been fun. My daughter's 13 now and it's been fun. My wife and I are going back and showing her all these movies and some seeing the ones that hold up and the ones that are timeless. And I mean, just think about all the President's Men and godfather and pocalypse now and all those things here Hunter deer Oh my

god. Yeah, to me. No, I mean, I mean, just watching taxi driver I had. I hadn't seen it. Oh my god, it's so good because

I think what makes I think what's so different then, and was unique about that period is these movies that would we would consider independent or autour films and with music, it was all done within the corporate system. So big studios are making those movies and big, big record companies are putting out

those albums. Right. Right. And, you know, it's it's interesting that there was, there was a hunger, and for that depth, that quality, that realism because that's also I think, what, what really made the 70s unique was all of the great, so let's just talk let's pick a genre, this movies, all of the revolutions and acting and directing that it happened in America in the 50s, to the actor studio and all of

that kind of stuff. Now it come to fruition, and you've got these directors, I mean, all these amazing directors, you know, are all going to school together. You got Lucas and Spielberg and Coppola and in Cimino, and, and Scorsese, of course, and they all know each other. And they're there. They've been inspired by the European New Wave stuff. And they're making these beautiful, gritty, realistic movies that are that were. It's interesting, because they were, they were profound, and they weren't

escapism, you know. And then by the end of the decade, we started getting we were like, Alright, we've had enough of of, of reality, because life was hard. That's yeah, because, yeah, I

that all changed. With jaws and Star Wars and things like that were suddenly you needed an opening weekend, and you needed this blockbuster, these movies were allowed to build slowly by word of mouth. And so something, something unexpected could catch fire, and it had the time to grow and then become iconic. I mean, all these movies are iconic and profoundly influential. But but then I think life was hard. And the 70s were in for me, growing up in New York City, I'm in New York

City had gone bankrupt. And it was incredibly dangerous and falling apart and crime ridden. But at the same time, profoundly creative. So there was all this great theater on Broadway and music scene. I mean, obviously, one of my most favorite music scenes is the New York punk scene, everything's going down on downtown and CBGBs, and then the beginning of hip hop, and, and then how, you know, punk morphed into, you know, to alternative New Wave and post punk. It was, it was a creative

time. And I think, and maybe part of it as now, as we're talking about it, too, is, is that there was time. Now there's not time to, to build things, you know, before the internet, you had the luxury of you had a scene. So the Midwest had a scene and Deep South had a scene. So you could be in Athens, Georgia, and you could be the be 50 twos and you're playing or REM, and you're playing at University of Georgia all the time, and you start to

build up your chops. And by the time someone gets, you know, your record gets handed off to some DJ somewhere else, like, oh, this amazing, and then that word of mouth spreads. But now, you know, you you can record a

song in your bedroom, and launch it to the world that immediately. So it

make a movie on your phone. And I mean, even as a frustrated teenage musician, I mean, shit if I'd had GarageBand you know, our, our access to all of the online plug in instruments and that technology and that ability to record a song man I had a four track cassette recorder, right? So, every time you lay down another track, it just got shittier and shittier because the quality would degrade.

And in my later life in my 40s I got back into it again started a band and, and and got much better, you know, got my chops down, and I still love it and I'm still I'll I'll be recording stuff tonight. You know, after after dinner after rooms, everyone else watching TV, I'll start you know, laying down some stuff, which is great, you know, so but yeah, so we my first I played I had a couple of we played the eighth grade dance my, my eighth grade band, black

and blue. And but with that was a disaster at that that probably is what scared me away from music for a little while because we had like two songs down really, really well. And then we got we we auditioned to play the seventh eighth grade dance. And then we kind of thought we had maybe 20 more ready to go and they just really work ready to go. And so and i It's so funny, because I think about gear and the world when I was first

buying a guitar. So this is like 1979 1980 you go to you go to 48th Street in Manhattan, and there was Manny's and there was Sam ash, and the original Sam ash. And there was Manny's and there were a couple of vintage places which to this day, I still regret because you could probably buy like a 1950s Les Paul in there for like 300 bucks right there was because no one wanted them. Right? Because then because it's 7980 Right? That's when the BC riches are coming in and people want and then Eddie

Van Halen come along. So everyone's colorful guitars. I mean, you could have bought like less I remember still I can picture every Les Paul Jr. With those P 90 pickups in the window there and you're like they were literally 200 bucks when that's why I'm, you know, Johnny thunders in in the dolls and then you know heartbreakers on

his own? Because he was spending so much money on hair when he would that's why I always played Les Paul juniors No, cuz he's like, great, because they were the cheapest guitar to buy, but they look so fucking great. But anyway, so I used to go to Manny's and Manny's was sort of the the, the, the original big music store and all the bands would go in there, you know, Zeppelin would go in there, everyone would go in there. But all of the gear, all of guitars

were behind glass. And there was they would never let a 12 year old play them. They you could look at them. But then like you had to hand over cash to even get a hold of that guitar. You know, so is it you know, I wish I'd grown up in the Guitar Center, the era where you can go in there and and you don't play Enter Sandman for as long as you want. Right, but so much we're

talking about that dance. So there was the only guitars they had out, were these sort of low end Japanese knockoffs of this company called Hondo, not Han dub Honda. And just in and I bought this S G. Copy. That was I swear to you, if it held its tune for one chord, it was a miracle, right? You just you hit the first chord and it's completely attitude. I even changed the tuning heads on and all that kind of stuff. But so that was that didn't help during

our show. But but you know, when I was first in, when I was first in bands, and like eighth grade, I was much more, we were spending much more time with band politics than actually like playing music, we were into all of the other things. So you spend most of the day just kicking people out of the band, and then trying to hire people to be in the band. And then you can never find a drummer. No one ever wanted to play the drums. And it was always hard to find a

bass player. So we'd always get I know, we'd always get one of our friends who had a little more cash and be like, Hey, we take them downtown, we take him down up for the street, like hey, buy that bass, and we'll teach you how to play the bass. How hard could it be? But, yes, the eighth grade dance was a little traumatic. And by 10th grade, I was fully committed to being an actor. But yeah, but I'm a frustrated musician.

all of those things. But I also think natural ham, and it's probably the only thing I'm really good at so I mean I'm I'm only moderately good at it so, but luckily, luckily it's paying the bills That's

program. And when we said, we were doing amazing place between the crucible and we're doing I did on the day, it's there, and I'm, we're doing big musicals. And, to this day, I don't think I've ever enjoyed any production as much as I enjoyed those productions back then. And there were so many good actors there. But one of my best friends is going on a bunch of people from my class, and from classes around me have gone on to become professional actors or professional writers or

directors. So it was a very creatively fertile time. And the other thing about it was, it's New York City, it's it's a private school in New York City. So it wasn't like really, if you were playing, you weren't going to become a professional baseball player or soccer player from any of those teams. So the plays though, attracted girls, from all over the city. So it was, so it was also socially

really advantageous. Because I mean, obviously, I think, you know, most people get in most people get into acting because they enjoy pretending and they want to they want to meet people to make out with. Um, yeah, right. Come on. It's like that's,

gonna be like that. That was that was. It wasn't that was that was a very rude awakening. And, but yeah, and then I saw I've been doing it professionally since I was I've earned a living at it since I was 1617.

Yeah. What about was there people that like a Juilliard? Do you think everyone's gonna make it? Is there some people that didn't make it that are just they just quit the arts and did something else? So that what do you think happened there? Do they lose their passion? Or,

want asking for advice. And and it's a it's a tough business. And like, I know so many incredibly talented people who don't work as much as they should or never worked. But it's, it's a lot of luck. It's a lot of being in the right place at the right time. And also just keeping your shit together.

Because I think like, someone asked me the other day or advice you gave actors and I gave something sort of hackneyed, but then I realized I thought about it as as, as I was contemplating what I said, I realized, the most important thing you need to do is professional actor is you need to have some sort of control and command over yourself and your ego, because it's a lot of ups and downs.

And, and sometimes, you know, it's a perpetual, you know, advance and you're constantly and that's great, but that's very rarely how it is. And someone smarter than me said the patron saint of actors is Sisyphus, and do you know, do you know the myth of Sisyphus? No. So it's one it's one of these It's a Greek myth, where he was cursed by the gods he was punished by the gods. So he's everyday had a roll a rock up up the hill. And every night the rock rolled back down, right?

And that's it, you know, you roll the rock up, and I've had I've had so many big breaks, right? I've had lots of things we go okay, this is it. I think I can coast for the rest of my career. And it's never that you the business changes you change. You get to a place where like, we don't know what to do with you or you need to. So you need to understand that it's not personal. That's the number When it's really hard not to take things personally, even I mean, you know, I work, I've been

really, really, really lucky. I have paid the bills and raised a family and worked as an actor my entire career. In fact, I often feel that I curse myself because I remember it Trinity. I never said, I said, I have my plan for the future. I go, I don't, I never said, oh, I want to be a star, I want to be this. I want to be a working actor. That's all I want to be. And I remember saying that to myself very clearly in my senior year of high school. And I don't know if

if I created that. Or if I just realized that's what I would be or I don't really know. But I've been fortunate enough and cursed enough to be I'm a working actor, I work. And but there are periods where we go, I don't know if I'm ever going to work again.

the show that I did homicide. So I did a show called Homicide Life on the streets back in the 90s. And I'm sitting next to him in the scene. And he has to deliver this two page speech and he delivers it the first take, and it's just, it's magic. I'm just like, This guy is amazing. And he delivers it the second time. Different and equally brilliant. Does it the third time? And he goes, Okay, that one was good. And I go, Mr. Journey, those were, they were

all amazing. He goes yeah, but that was the only one that was the first one I did where I wasn't worried if he thought I was any good. And I go, and I said it never goes away does it. And he goes, it never goes away. So there's that there's a because to become it to be an actor to be a good actor, I think you have to have a certain vulnerability, but then you to

do your work. But then you have to have this you Stella Adler famous acting teacher said, an actor needs the heart of a rose and the hide of a rhinoceros. And but those are hard things to keep going at the same time. So part of that sensitivity and that vulnerability that makes you good at this and and is also you know, you're you're you're you're going to have a degree of

self loathing. And, and, and, and it's funny because the more you know, when I was younger, I certainly wouldn't be comfortable having that conversation about you know, insecurities and things like that. But as you get older and you realize no, no, there's there's strength in talking about your vulnerabilities. Now you can have those conversations and I haven't met an actor yet where you talk about this, and

they don't reveal that. And you know, the ones who don't feel that way are probably psychotic.

ourselves. But there's no way in my real life I could ever treat anyone the way any of those characters treat them. So it's fun, and you have some sort of insight into it. So I, I mean, there's nothing, there's nothing more fun than playing a bad guy because they've got

thinks they're pretty good. And so especially if they're sociopath, and yeah, a captain of industry, so they're just fun because I mean, the leverage one that was hilarious because I prepared. I was really obsessed with the Sackler family and everything that was going on with Purdue pharma, you know, in the news.

really, really, really. And I created this basically, you know, a Sackler, and I get there. And we're doing we're shooting the first because it's the first day of shooting, and we're there back and I see people hiding behind potted plants. And they're doing it's much broader. And I was like, Oh, I prepared for the wrong show. So I talked to one of the actors on the show, and I go, Oh my god, I prepared for like, as if I'm doing a Scorsese movie. She's like, No, no, this is

Scooby Doo. We're doing Scooby Doo.

do those sounds. And I'm like, this computer screens in 2020. Do not go do it when you when you look at them. I mean, it's just really it was really campy, I was like, Oh, this is kind of funny. It's funny,

that's always fun. Because what kid hasn't played cops and robbers you know, every kid does that. So you practice like your moves like your your gun moves like this and like your poses, and you're, you know, you're showing the badge and all that stuff, because you're friends with cops, right? So you have them show you the right way to do all that stuff. Well, that's

18. But it was still like it just was New York had bigger problems, they really they weren't enforcing that kind of shit. And, and so now I'm like, 16 and I'm in I'm in a bar I was in on the east side of New York, big Irish bar, old school Irish bar, not like these new where everything's in Gaelic. It was just fluorescent lighting and the best beer no one drank Guinness, everyone drank Budweiser, and it could afford

it. And it had a little cafeteria hot plate thing in the front so the food be like you'd literally bring a tray through and all these all these old school Irish bars, they're all gone. There will be like the Blarney Stone. I think this was the Blarney Stone it'd be Dublin house had these names. And they were amazing because they were they were truly Irish bars.

They're run by Irish people filled with Irish people, but it was It wasn't sort of this Fache cottage, Gaelic Irish bar this now pervasive, it was just it was the real deal. Yeah, that's good shit. Like effect 100%

And I think they've returned it to Hell's Kitchen but I was Irish bar there because these have the snugs too and snug would be like it's just like half a building was an old Irish term to like sign but it's like a tiny bar like it's just wide enough for the door the bar and a seat right and you come in

there. There's there was one where like, they didn't even have anything on draft like you just had got got cans of beers, but the first time that's the first time I played a cop I was in I was surrounded by cops knew I always found your cops really fascinating. And so we're at this bar alright, I think the Blarney Stone and my friend One of my friends, another actor guy theater guy, he pulls out this fake badge. He's like, I gotta look at this fake badge I got,

oh, give me that. And I saw there was a table of Yeah, I'm 16 I'm in fucking junior in high school, but I see a table of kids, we're definitely a year younger than us. So I go over there and I'm like, I'm gonna need to see right these flashing the badge and I pretend to be a cop and I card all of them. And, and I fully I was like a fully, fully immersed, committed performance. Like one goes talking back to me. I'm like, get the fuck out of here. You're

out, you know. And I know that the bartender saw me doing it, but he was having a laugh because he knew me. But I kicked like two of the kids out.

up in New York, I lived there. I was gonna, I'm gonna go out to Los Angeles. And I got out to Los Angeles. And this is 1992. And I had this sort of existential crisis, which I think a lot of actors go through where you're going, what am I doing this, I'm not contributing to the world. I think I want to become a cop. And so I befriended all these LAPD guys,

and I'd hang out with them. And I was reading every book on real life police stuff and and, and I'd gone on this ride along with an LAPD guy that I befriended in watts. And it was funny because all the cops that I met, they all want to become actors. And, and I realized, I'm an actor. It's really what I'm supposed to do. But I go, I, I really, I sort of set this intention for myself. Not that that made it happen. But I was like, I just want to play a cop truthfully on

TV. That's my goal. That's what and I. So then I spent the next few years I was obsessed with it, I'd research it. And so when homicide came on the air, I remember going I want to be on that show. I want to be on that show. I watched I remember watching the pilot, and Andre who played Frank Pendleton. I'd gone to Juilliard with him. And I was like, I want to be on that show. So my favorite actors, I mean, we're on that DVD. I mean, come on, you know, Jon Polito, and so I remember I got the

audition for it. So this is after their second or third season and I got the audition. And back in the early 90s, everything that I went up for, because I used to have blonde hair before it turned gray had blond hair, blue eyes. Every description of every character I read for they want to go we want to Johnny Depp type, a Johnny Depp type, he was the template. And I'm definitely on a Johnny Depp type, but I go, I really, I've researched this character.

I know who it is like, like if they're willing to cast a blond, blue eyed guy, I'm gonna get this part. And it was an amazing scene. beautifully written. I got it. And I show up there. And I think much to their initial dismay, they had written me Tom Fontana, told me later and I remember reading he, he he designed my character as a frat boy with a gun. So I think I was I would think I was brought on to bring some sex appeal, some irreverence, something like that. But okay, but I had a

whole other plan. And so I'd be like, I don't know, I think I should do it this way. And so like, all of that desire to play a cop, truthfully on TV mixed with their, I mean, the best writing, you know, one can imagine in this incredible cast, it sort of morphed, and then that character had this sort of extraordinary trajectory. So but I didn't, I didn't so to answer your original question, I didn't do any pulling up my badge or my

gun in a mirror. I but because I by that point, I felt like I felt like I you know, I was preparation for this. When I thought I was gonna come cop I gone because I grew up in York City, I'd never really handled guns. I used to go to the shooting range once a week and I was firing all guns the cops would fire because I was like, I, I knew that we were gonna set wanted to live with, I wanted to be able to handle a gun properly, and all that kind of

stuff. So in a weird way, I had prepared for that character for like, three years before I got it.

part like in Moneyball, and you're playing a real life person, do you get to research it you reach out to Mark Shapiro, I mean, that's a great casting job, by the way, cuz I looked at him and he was like, You look like Mark Shapiro, like it's pretty good casting job.

cutter approach. Each job is different and you can get inspired by many things. So I could have been cast, having not done no research for homicide, but just having an image of something, or song lyric would get me in the moment and I'm ready to go. For that one I happen to prepare but like for Mark Shapiro. They cast me i I know nothing about sports. I'm not a sports guy at all right? I mean, I read I read Michael Lewis's book, and I and the

script was amazing. But who the guy was, had a real sense of who that guy was, and then went in to do it. It was the first scene of the first day of shooting. And before that, because I've been doing so much TV is the was the first movie I'd done in a while because it was going to be the first scene first days we shot on a Monday on that Friday, we came into Dubai rehearsal.

Now I'm used to now I'm such a TV veteran that we're doing 10 pages a day, we're never rehearsing there's no time and you've got a got to get it out. So I was like, rehearsal. How can we gonna rehearse that scene? And, and Bennett Miller, the director had the script written by Sorkin, and then Brad came in with his own Brad Pitt came in with his own version of the scene. And this is just this is a testament to who this guy

is. So usually, if another actor has rewritten the scene, they've probably given themselves some pretty juicy shit to do. He hands me this bigger, this much bigger scene, and he'd given me all the stuff to do. He'd written me all these great parts, right? Because it's so he's super match. But then when we got there on the day, we just improvised, we did the script, but we we improvised when we did when we shot it on the first day, we shot Brad's coverage first, so cameras pointing at

him. And we improvised for from the time we got on the set until we went to lunch. So for like six hours. And we shot that movie on film. So Bennett would sit underneath the camera. And when the mat, we would just keep going until the mags ran out to the film ran out, and they'd have to reload and we'd go again. And it was magical. And Brad was amazing. And we'd improvise and we did crazy shit like stuff that was never gonna

make the movie. Like at one point, I'm pretending to be Captain Kirk, because he complimented my chair. And I was like, those guys have the red shirts, they won't be here next week, you know, but it was fun. And then we work in the dialogue with the improv. And, uh, and, and then when we came back, I remember going to lunch and all the background guys were like, You're amazing. You're killing it. I'm like, I haven't killed it yet. I haven't even been on camera. And I was like, it

hasn't happened yet. So I was really nervous. I remember being at lunch going like, I don't know if I can improvise for another six hours. But then we came back and Bennett, we call out that he basically sort of gave each of the sort of improv stems or threads, a title that goes to the Captain Kirk one. Now do this one, do that one. And then it all came together. But this goes back to what we were talking about the 1970s

movies. The method to his madness was by improvising and doing so much and getting so comfortable. And that's why I think that movie is so spectacular. All those performances are are amazing. Is no one was acting. No one was acting anymore, they'd stop no one was on the words they were in the moment. And that's as a statically as a audience member. And as a actor. That's what I look for always I don't want to see acting, I don't want to see a performance. I want to believe what's

happening in front of me. Even if it's happening a billion miles away on another star system. I want to believe it's really happening in front of me. And he was able to bring that aesthetic because you know, the 70s really brought that to the mountaintop and we've lost it goes and comes depending I mean, obviously the new golden age of television that we're in right now and streamers. I think that's really brought that back. I mean, you know, watch a show like Ozark or you watch the

wire. Yeah, you know, all that kind of stuff. We're seeing world class acting. But yeah, I didn't have to research Mark Shapiro, even in fact, they didn't want me to they were calling him Mark Shapiro to him. Like I think it's Oh, no, that was the only I got around to them. No, no, but that was really research I did. I was like, I was nervous. This morning. I got I think his name is Mark Schapiro. And they're

like, it is March. But no, but yeah, but then sometimes, but the research is, is the fun, it just depends on the job. Because I think that's also what's exciting about being an actor is you're exposed to worlds and periods that you never would have even thought about. So you

know, my first movie was this movie called Memphis Belle, which is about B 17. bomber crews in the Second World War. So suddenly, I had and that was the old days, I had like three months to prepare. I knew everything about B 17 bombers, and that was great. So it's amazing to immerse yourself in it, but you'll even just this leverage thing. Part of it was I got really into the artwork that he collected, and I started learning about artists I didn't know about, so you get, that's

cool. So that's fun. Those are sort of ancillary. But as far as preparing, it really depends, because, for me, one of the biggest changes that happened in my career was I'm halfway through you know, this is so in the late 90s. I was sort of hitting a rut I was doing a lot of television, episodic television. And what would happen is I go to Juilliard and studied with all these amazing teachers. And they were like, You need to prepare, you need to

do all of these things. All these things have to be done before you can show up to work. You need to know this and do this about your character and know what they had for breakfast, and in fifth grade, and you're like, I don't have time. Because half these jobs I get, I, I, they're calling me the night before. And they're like, Hey, can you be in New Orleans tomorrow and play this guy. And I'm like, and I'm starting to feel really insecure. And I'm feeling really

tight on set. And I befriended all of these amazing improv comedians from Chicago, in in, in LA in the late 90s. And I started going to all their shows, and then I started getting back and doing it. And that's how I started, I started, really, at Trinity, my best friend who's an amazing improviser, we just improvised all the time. And, and, and, and by doing comedic improv shows, it reminded me a couple of things, that first of all, you can just have a word or a sentence, and you can create a

whole show out of that. And it brought me back to what really inspired me initially as an actor, because when you're it's just playing a kids game, at an adult level. It's just playing pretend. So like, Chuck, I mean, if you and I, you know, we're, we're eight years old, and I'm like, Okay, you're the king of England. I'm the king of France, you wouldn't go, you'd be like, Okay, I'm the king of England. I'm the king France, you would

go? Sorry. I'm not quite sure what the king of England would wear and how we need to go away and come back. Right? Right. Just something to

before in my room, right? Just even like this, this conversations in improv, like I could have planned stories I was going to tell you, but they're going to sound a little stale. But then you and I vibing off of each other. It's that one, it's not one plus one doesn't equal to one plus one equals infinity.

Because if we're in the moment together, and you I pass you the ball, and you spin the ball to me, and we throw it like suddenly, it's not what any we couldn't have planned it because it existed because we did it and that's what you're looking for, you're looking for that mistake, I can't tell you how many times the fuckup becomes the scene and becomes really the key to the character or the key to the

movie. I can't tell you. I mean, just just that improv something that happens in the moment is so because it's magical, and it's alive. And it really, you know, it goes back to her saying it really is happening. It's happening right then it never, it wasn't intellectually conceived of. And it's magic. It's the, it's you being open to the Muse coming down from wherever it is and being transferred through you. And, and I think, you know, musicians

are like that. And, you know, people like oh, you know, you hear about guys writing songs. They never, like, I don't know where it came from, I just start playing and it came out. And there's not a lot, right. And I think that's it's the same thing just acting now. Preparation is I always think of it, it's like it's, it's the it's the chairlift to the top of the

mountain. So whatever you need to get to the top of the mountain so sometimes Yeah, I need to do a lot of things I need to change the way I walk I need to change the way I talk I need to I need to know certain things so sometimes I need to do research sometimes I don't but once I'm at the top of the mountain, then I'm just on the ski run and you just got to you got to put all that behind you and I'm at least that's how I you know like I said that's how I like to do it and I think if

you think about it as a kids game just playing pretend we're just doing an adult level under any circumstances you know like

changed my worldview. And like, I wish I could have easily had like, instead of baseball cards, just the all the characters in the Watergate scandal. And so when I got called to do it, I was so excited. I knew all these people. And so I did do a ton of research on Mark Felt, which was really helpful. But then when we got to set Matt Ross, who's an amazing director, I went to Juilliard with him, and we did good night and collect together.

I'm working with him and these incredible actors, John Carroll Lynch, and, and, and we started improvising. So it wasn't what happened. And then he's like, that's it. That's the scene. And so then we went to and you'll, you'll see it when it happens.

there. So, you know, the best way to put it is like a, you're not taking any liberties with history. You don't know what they said. But now you, you actually understand the scene better than it's, you're not reading a transcript. And, and it's true. And if it's more natural, and it has to be done, though, it has to be done. And they didn't do it all over the

place. But it's interesting, it actually more than just doing the transcript, it brings the scene alive, and you have a better sense because what I love about gaslit which is why I think the show is gonna be so exceptional. It's it's not the mythology of Watergate. It's not all it's not about Woodward and Bernstein and it's not about it's about all of the other characters who were important, you know, John Dean and John Michell and their spouses and Martha Mitchell and and, and all

these other players. And, you know, this, this water, water gets become a mythological part of our history. So the people who spoke out of course, as always happens to become sort of some hagiography right, they're just, they're now they're their intentions were always noble, they wanted to save democracy. And that's not really help people fucking operate. Right. So the thing is there. So now you see that no, most people are motivated by self interest and fear. And, and that's really

illustrated there. So the more you can make those people feel real by improvising, or finding a moment that isn't necessarily historically accurate, but as you know, the Crown isn't a documentary, but it's you feel like you know, who those people are. It's just his interpretation of what those scenes must be like, behind those closed doors that no one's

ever revealed. Show. It can be but but also improvisation is, you know, it's it can only be used, you know, it has to be used by professionals for professional use only Don't try this at home. Because, yes, it's not, it's because you have to answer your bigger question. It's because you've prepared because sometimes, you know, you'll work with an actor who's not ready to go, they don't know the line. So like, we're gonna improvise like, no, no, you need to know it, so you can forget

it, or move on from it. And so if it's done with tasty people who can pass the ball, well, then it's, it's pretty magical. And it's fun to be part of.

it seemed, it seems so natural. I don't know. What takes more talent improvising it, or making it look like it was improvised because it seems so natural.

truthful. And then with some scripts, though, you're not dealing with Chekhov, and a little nudge here and there can actually make the writers work even more powerful, but you're still but still, even if you're using the dialogue. I think that the the written dialogue, there's still the aesthetic of, you're still improvising within those parameters. really, you know, Sanford Meisner said you're living truthfully, under imaginary circumstances. And you know, what you do doesn't depend

on you. It depends on the other person. So you're just in, in those circumstances that given circumstances, the scene with Yeah, the words are there for you. But if you're truly present, they're not going to come out, they're not going to sound like lines on a page. So when it's when acting is executed? Well, it's a mess. Oftentimes, if especially on network television, you can see the lines on the page, you can see every moment is spelled out. Right. It's very clear. And, and

that works for that genre. But that's not really what I tend to look for. And I think, you know, people really respond to you want it to see it happening in front of you.

environment. I mean, because I always feel, as I think about teaching, acting, or talking to younger actors, like lots of people can act, acting is not, you know, everyone's you know, so many people are funny, you know, some people are smart, who can pretend the only thing that separates professional actor from everyone else is they have to do it under, honestly, the worst circumstances and under

pressure. So, and, you know, I always think, you know, if I had one piece of advice that I would give an actor, it's like, whatever you think it's gonna be like, on the day, it's not, I mean, down to so you, I can't tell you how many times you think, Oh, this is the most important scene, we're gonna spend three hours on it. They're like, okay, we can only do this in one take, because we're losing the light. And you're

like, you got to go, right? Or if you're playing a scene in the Bahamas, I guarantee you it's going to be 40. below where you

are that day, right? You know, so nothing is what if so you have to really be disciplined about knowing that it's not going to be like what you imagined in your head, and you have to do it, you have to do your job under adverse circumstances, you know, people who maybe who aren't who don't want to be there, or they are, they're going like, Oh, we don't have time, we got to, we got to move on. We gotta move on, everyone's stressed or someone else is having a bad day, it's

never going to be ideal. And then every once in a while, you just have this perfect experience where everything falls into place. And it's it's an amazing playground to play in. But those are truly the exceptions most of the time. It's, it's challenging, but that's also why it's done by professionals. And you're there, you know, I mean, I just did. I just did, I guess I can say this. I just a Better Call Saul.

It's just a Better Call Saul.

up till 7am The next morning. So I've been there. You know, I've been there for 14 hours. And, uh, and I've been talking for 14 hours. And people around me are just falling asleep. And you're going like, oh, but you have to pretend every time is the first time right? That's the challenge of an actor should that's and

you dig deep. All you want to do is go home and go to bed because you're just you're wrecked but you're like, it doesn't it goes back to that Moneyball story when people like oh, you did a great job. Like I haven't done it yet. Because until they feel my face doing it, it hasn't it doesn't exist. And and you've got to you got to dig deep but it's not it's a people. So how do you learn lines? Or how do you shoot a sequence like that's

the easiest part. Right? It's just you're doing I can't tell you how many times every my wife who's the best actor in the family, she's She's the real professional. But she's just come out of retirement about two years ago and she's been working now constantly. And but she I told her she'd hear my stories. And she told me like how many times she's had to do a close up at like four o'clock in the morning. And you've been there for already for 12 hours. Right?

And that's, you know, this isn't look we're not we're not saving lives and and we're not firemen. It's not but I'm saying like as far as being a professional actor inside baseball. It's just I think that's what the difference is you have to do it when it's not ideal.

fan, right? So like, your comfort zone is poison. Right, you're supposed to get out of your comfort zone. And that's what happens. It is

I'm something else. And you got to put your big boy pants on. And, and, you know, go out there and audition and fight for it. And, and I remember a much smarter guy than me, he told me the Sisyphus myth he goes, your problem is you get the rock to the top of the hill, and then you're like, Oh, you don't feel like pushing it back up again. And you're not, you have to remember, you're always gonna be

pushing it back up. So as soon as you get your head out of your ass, and you go push that rock up again, great things happen. And it's true. And it's not. And now, you know, talking about Goggins it's exciting. You know, I'm 54 years old, and I feel I have as much energy as I did want to more probably than I was 20. Because I'm still in it, you know, you're still fighting. And, and it's exciting. And I really fell in love. I fell in love with acting all over again,

when I started improvising. And then, and then there was a period where I was doing a bunch of stuff, and I wasn't as in love with it. And then I found my love for it. My passion for it again, like four years ago, and I've just been on this ride of doing all these great things since then. And like, that's why I said, like, you really have to master yourself and your ego and thinking, where you should be in Oh, I should be here. And I did

this. Why do I have to the business changes, you know, people don't know who you are, maybe and you got to prove yourself to them. And, and there's no, there's dignity in that. And there's, there's muscle, there's muscle to be built, and you got to keep that muscle strong. I have a friend who's a very, you know, profoundly successful businessman. And I was talking to him about this before I sort of like got back pushing the rock up the hill, and he's like, I never rest. I never feel like

I've I've arrived. And he goes, it's death. And, and I was like, oh, yeah, yeah. And because that's the ego. I was like, Hey, I've, I'm here. I've been on TV for a bunch of years. I've been on the show. Why aren't you you know, why isn't this being handed to me? And sometimes it is handed to you. And that's great. But there's no one role. Yeah,

have to go. And there's something that feels really good when you you do fight for it. And then you get it. And you remember, like I got that muscle? Yeah, that's what got me started in the beginning. Like I had, there was nothing that was gonna be too challenging. I mean, yeah, you're just like, Yeah, I'll go get those. I remember my first real not commercial job. But my first professional job after starting course, I didn't after school special. And they wouldn't

release the script. And there was a David, God bless you, you're hilarious. So they wouldn't, there was no computers, there's no faxes, and they would. So if you wanted to read the scene that we're gonna have to audition for, you'd have to go there and get it. So I went there. I walked over there in the heat of the summer of New York sat down to like the there was somewhere on the Hudson River. I got my scenes, I walked over to behind some warehouse and I learned it and then I went

in there and did it. And, and I was like, you were able to do that you can still do that. You can still fight because you know, that's, that's who we're that's who we are as humans. You know, there's no there's no resting in the natural world. You know, wolves don't get off. Right. You know,

were big roles that maybe you turned down and then it turned into a big thing you went shit?

one of my seven houses. With no but but I think this is more important. It's It's such so much fun talking to you and like, but I think this is the theme, you talked about ego and who you are, like, you know, a lot of actors get caught up in like, Oh, I'm, I'm better than that guy. Why did he get that part? Or like, oh, what's wrong? I'm a really good actor. It's like, that's, it's not it. That's not what it's about. Like, you have to be right. And you have to be in the right

place. But you also have to be the right guy for or person or, you know, you have to be the right person for the part. And it's just when it's right, it's right. And that's what you know, how you asked brilliantly at the beginning, like, What do you miss by not lose out by not

going into the room? That's one of the things because that is very powerful, where they can feel your essence, like, yes, that's the guy, I can tell you how many jobs when a journey man, a bunch of jobs I got it just walked through the door, because the way that the molecules were exchanged between me and the creative people, like he's the guy. But um, so now, you know, but no one's taken your part. And it's a hard thing to remember. Because and yeah, there's lots of really good

actors out there. And yes, you can do that thing that, you know, we all do. And we're young, like, I could play everything, like, yeah, you can play everything, but you're not gonna get cast and everything. It's a business. You know, and that's, in fact, my, my number one piece of advice I give to the younger actors I work with, it's like, make your own stuff. Because you can. And, you know, that's, I I'm probably too lazy,

and I should be doing more. But also, like, I grew up in a different time, I came up in a different time. But now like, I always say, like, I'm still defined by how people define me. I'm, I go from job to job. I'm a journeyman actor. I'm a working actor, and I love it. But you

could define who you are. You could show them who you are, you know, the way Joel Edgerton does, or you know, there's so many great people out there who have created their own, you know, the thing about fleabag like Phoebe Phoebe Waller bridge, like, look what she did. She was like, she's like, here's who I am. And I'm freaking you know, I'm just, I'm, I'm, I'm a powerful and brilliant person in this business, like so. Like Lena

And those the best because you get to spend like a whole weekend there with a bunch of other people, you know, from other weekend shows or other, you know, Marvel shows. And then you're partying in Blackpool. And you're with sort of this picked group of fans who've paid to be there. And so, but what could be better than hanging out with a bunch of people who think you're cool, and you want to hear your dumb stories. So yeah, you know, so I love all that. But yeah, no, I mean, I'm doing

I'm doing great. And I've been really lucky to be super busy during COVID. And but like I was saying My manager was she called me the other day and she was like, You know what, so excited about this business. And what I've always loved about it, and she's amazing. She's a woman named Stacey Abrams really just changed my life and she's just like, what's exciting is you never know, you never know what's coming next. And that is, that's the beauty and the terror of it. But it keeps you alive,

right? And I never know and I never You can't predict what shows going to be an amazing experience. What shows not and that's, it's, I can say it keeps you vital. It's, it's it keeps you on your toes, and it's exciting. I mean, I can't tell you at times, but this is it. This show this show is going to change the world. I remember we're making Memphis Belle. And I remember guys on the show, we're picking up their Oscar tuxes, right like we're getting Oscars. And you just never know.

And then you do something and then boom, it just connects. But

or movie that you did like that? You wish more? I know, you said journeyman was one of them. That was the most fun. Is that one? Or would you pick a different one?

the near the end. And he said he said second you walk through the door. I knew you were the guy. And and we've been connected ever since then. But journeyman was such an amazing thing, because Kevin McKidd who played the lead who played we played brothers, I had been obsessed my wife and I've been obsessed with Rome. We've been watching it for like two years before and every time we'd watch Rome, my wife would say to me, she goes, You have to play Kevin, the kids brother. She's like, you look

like brothers. And so I remember when I got the audition, like it's a play Kevin kids brother, like when I'm getting this one. But it's alive. Yeah, it was a luck. But it was, that was one of those where everyone from the top down, everyone involved in the production was just wonderful. And, and it's funny, because in the old days, productions tended to be a lot more problematic. There wasn't.

And there was a lot of bad behavior that was encouraged and a lot of bad behavior that you were allowed to get away with back in the day, because there was no social media, there was the networks and studios weren't as hands on. And then as the business model changed, a lot of the bad behavior went away. But that was I realized that you want to be working with people you want to be with, you know, because you're especially doing a TV show, you got to be there

14 hours a day, right. But that was a journeyman really changed because we were just also in love with each other. And we were just having the best time. And it was just one of those things where the writer strike and and NBC wasn't completely behind it at the time. And and there was some regime changes. And it just didn't, it didn't click but we still every, every year, we all text each other on the day that it premiered on the anniversary. Oh, my God, we're still going remember, but you

know, those? You never know. But I mean, it's not really for me to say what should have been more lauded. I mean, I've always been amazed. I feel very lucky to be part of homicide, right? Because that was sort of that was the end of a certain era, you talked about the three networks. And the timing was Fox was coming in with X file. So there's four at the time. But people were still trying because they were trying to make prestige TV on networks, right.

And now then right after that HBO kicked in, and then the streamers and all that and basic cable and the landscape really changed. But homicide was we were trying to make a HBO show, which they eventually did make the next iteration the Wire on HBO, trying to make that on a network. And, you know, it's funny, too, because we were always on the bubble of getting cancelled because we were only getting like 18 million viewers on a Friday night at 10. Right?

18 19 million. Yeah, it's like mad you know what madmen finale gets 2 million, right? So it's just like, it's just it's the numbers of crazies, right? It's a different world, but I was always it was there was never not for me personally, but I always wanted that show to get nominated for it never got nominated for Best Drama. Hmm. You know, it was in so I feel

for them. I feel like they should have gotten it but I'm not really think that there's anything that I was on that should have been recognized for I've been really lucky. And

whole book. It was it was amazing. But that show, interestingly enough, that was the most problematic show that I've been on. In modern times, and if you notice the reason the second season is so different from the first season is they killed everyone off. And yeah, I think that was intentional. Oh, yeah. So we could start fresh. Yes. So, um, that's just my, my outside opinion. I was very happy when I got the script that I was being killed. And because not always you're not always

excited about that. Yeah. Because that's, you know, that's the that's the career downside to playing bad guys is Yeah, bad guy, for sure. You know, you're not surviving. Right. That's all I got very excited on Designated Survivor. When I realized, Oh, I'm a good guy on this show. And then they killed me blew me up and nuclear nuclear explosion in a subway station.

and bash. Mark Paul Goslar. Yes, you're saved by the bell fan? How close is he in real life to the Zack Morris character? Is that like a stretch for him to play that? Or is he like basically Zack Morris. In real life?

ended up happening? The best part about actors, you know, being on set in between takes is people tell stories and actors always have the best stories. Right? And, but at least Malcolm he didn't disappoint. So on Franklin and bash, he would just tell me and I was peppering him with questions I just wanted to know. And he's had such an incredible career and he was just telling me all of his, you know, it's just his Kubrick

stories. Of course, all he had tons of Kubrick stories and all the horrible like he was he was part of that whole group of all the crazy British actors. He's telling terrifying Oliver read drunken stories and all those things that I just loved. My favorite part. One of my favorite days on Franklin and bash was John Landis directed.

love. I mean, one of my fondest memories ever I did. Early TV

movie i do i did with a great Joanne Woodward. And Joanne Woodward happened to be married to this little icon called Paul Newman. And we're shooting in Pittsburgh. It's Laura Linney. It's me. It's Joanne. And Paul, we're it's a Sunday afternoon. And we're just going to have a beer at some restaurant

somewhere in Pittsburgh. And he just starts telling the most wonderful stories like he said, and they were all which is also great with really mean he I think he's one of the greatest actors of all time, but every story it was about how bad he was in this player that play how he messed up, and you just love it, because you're like, saying

he sucks. Well, that's when of course and that's why you love him more because he's self effacing just lets you know those Clooney sews Brad Pitt that's like the best

hug. He's fucking George Clooney. And he goes, he goes, I'm so glad you're doing this movie. And I was like, and I was like, I would have done it, I would have jumped on a grenade for him at that. And that's, that's huge, like what he was. I mean, he was one of the, I'm talking about great directors. He was hands down one of the greatest directors that ever worked with, but he understood that he was George Clooney, he understood that I was probably gonna be nervous to meet him.

Yeah, with him, and he immediately diffused

met her, I'm a young actor. It's probably my third job. I'm coming off of an overnight plane because I've shot something in Toronto, and I'm landing in Pittsburgh, and I come to the first read through and she's like, read, she said, same thing. She goes, I'm so glad you're doing this. I'm like, You are all thank God, like immediately, you know, you feel comfortable. And she honestly, she's the icon. I mean, she's one of the greatest actors of all time. And that's you need to

know your place. And you need to know to you know, we talked about earlier that acting, you

have to do in under very difficult circumstances, but you don't have to make them more difficult. And smart. People really know how to make people comfortable. I think about this all the time. Certainly. Whenever I've been a regular on a show, I mean, any guest star comes in you go out of your way to make sure like they know that they're welcome there. And then we're like, Oh, I'm so glad you're here. I mean, I use those lines. I suck. I'm so glad you're here. It's gonna be

great. We're so excited. You know, Baba Baba, because it's as Charles Durning said, you know, I was worried you know if you're gonna think as any good as word if you were gonna like me, he even said Right. And that's, that's part of it. He said the sweetest thing and Charles dirty which makes this story so funny. He goes, he goes, you know, the actor. It's like, are he instead of saying the height of runoffs was hard rose, he goes, it's like, we're a little bird inside

of like a little wooden. Your heart is like a bird inside of a little wooden bird cage. And it's very fragile. And you have to be careful. And this is a guy is a war hero. This man landed on D Day, fought in the Battle of the Bulge was severely wounded three times machine gun, but bayonet it and I believe he had his throat slit and was returned to CES and returned to combat after each of those

injuries. You know, he said again, that those are those are those golden ticket injuries that usually get you out of the combat zone. And this man is like, I was hope. I was wondering if you guys were gonna think I was any good. And you're like, wow, that's, you know, that's it.

because I, there's two types of actors, there's the one like that improv thing, like we're all going to rise together, right? Better I make you, the better I am for you, the better you're going to be in the better I'm going to be you know, I come from I come from that ethos that theater ethos, like I always use a soccer metaphor ago, the Assist is even better than the goal, right? If you can put the ball where that guy needs to get it into the net. How amazing is that? You set him up to like to

win. And I believe in that. But then every once in a while, and it's much less and less, but when I was much younger, especially, you'd work with actors who were like, Oh, the way I'm gonna be better in the scene is by making you worse. And and those are fun stories. They're fun to talk over about

intense personalities. And there was some there was one scene where I remember both the other actors just stormed off and went to their trailers, because I'd said to the director, the director said to me, he said, Hey, because they they're always picking out the new directors because they get all these guys We're independent filmmakers, and they've given sort of their

first TV gig. And so everyone was sort of all these new directors want to pick me to talk to you at lunch before they start their episode because I seem like the most sort of open cheerful guy and they go Do you have any advice for directly TV? And I was like, well, when actor X and actor Why are on set, just don't tell them what to do ask them what they want to do. Remember cut to the next on

Monday morning. It's like, I want you to come in here and I want you to come in here and then boom, boom, both gone. Right there just real. Oh, yeah. Wow. Oh, there was an actor that he was on Homicide. I won't name any names, but the stories are still just as good. So the beauty of homicide was it was ultimately the math using him probably. The camera was all handheld. Right. So and it was literally and it was a handheld

camera. 16 millimeter. Yeah. So the beauty of that and Clark talks about this all the time Clark Johnson play my partner, one of the greatest directors of all time, amazing guy, amazing actor missing human. He's you know, what was great about that is everyone had to stay in the scene, there was no you couldn't go out of the scene, you had to go back to what we're talking about that aesthetic of really being present in the moment and playing off the other person because you never knew when the

camera was gonna find you. The other thing that happened on that, because of that there was no traditional coverage. And by that, I mean, we're not going to do master two shot and you're single, you're not going to get your your close up. So one actor definitely wanted his close ups. So he had two tricks that he would do, which were great, the great I love horrible, mean actor stories, but his his he tend to tricks, he would either not know his lines. So during the scene, he would never know

his lines. So you couldn't use his coverage. But then suddenly they go, Okay, well, we got to get your lines. So they'd go into a single and then he know the mall perfectly. He knows right. So that was genius. And then the other thing was, because we'd shoot a lot of scenes in the interrogation room in the box, he would go to the window and look out the window and deliver half of his lines

out the window. So then of course, they'd have to come to the other side of the window and just give them a nice little close up. I mean, it's very, it's very I mean, I always admire it I am admire the admire the game. You know, I'm not the game right? What You Don't hate the player hate the game. So I admire the players. I don't hate the game. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I don't hate the player. But But to your question. Yes. So I was like, around all of these pretty

intense personalities. And there was a lot of strawman drawing and behind the scenes machinations, I was like, I'm going to be a dick. I'm going to try that out. And it just failed miserably. I just wasn't any good at it, because it's not your nature. And I really, truly believe like, the essence of this as being who you are, and you and that was a, that was an important sort of evolution for me in my growth as a man, as a human. I was like, No, you just

gotta be who you are. You're nice guy, and you like to get along and sometimes not gonna be like that. And then after I sort of made that change that I came back, and I made all these amazing friends, he's comedian who were just the sweetest nicest people in the world. And then I had only pretty much great experiences since then, except really, Wayward Pines was like being thrown back into that fire. It was like a full homicide bananas thing. I

remember. I remember one of the actors had like a three page monologue to do and really nice, really interesting cat. And he's went into his trailer and just, you know, just did a buckle a massive bomb hits, and then came out and said it, and they were on location and hundreds of acres, hundreds of acres, we had hundreds of extras. And and then decided he wasn't gonna do that three page monologue. He was just gonna sing a song instead. And I loved it as like a as a

person who's in the moment. And I was like, This is great. It's fucking genius. It kind of works. But like, this isn't the this isn't the script and. And that was just that was that was the nicest of those crazy experiences. But

that. Like my babies my baby like I go you when you Yeah. But, but those but they make fun stories. I mean, but now Now I tend to have many I mostly only have delightful and wonderful experiences.

Is there a charity promote here?

lockdown. The first year, I was working with doing leveraged and doing bash, I got separated my family because my family's here in Canada. And I was working in the States, I couldn't come home because there's no vaccine. And there was two questions. So then this year, when I got my first job shooting in the woods out in Portland, we drove there, and then we went from job to job. We drove all around the country.

And since then, I've driven mostly all around Canada, and I definitely want to get started with a charity. If I have to bring in my own. I know that there's ones that exist, but the amount of food deserts that we see in this country, I mean, you're thinking like food deserts and clean drinking water. I mean, there's two things that are going on right now that are blowing my mind, you know, we're still Flint still got doesn't have clean water, right?

Because I mean, nutrition is everything how you eat, you know, it's how you develop and it's it affected, you know, affects your mood and how you live in the world and the fact that you don't even have access to anything from miles around hundreds of miles around that's helped me so but Japan go and and then stand ready for my food desert. Okay, then I'll be I

was a lot of fun. And sometimes you just click with a guest and it's like you're talking to an old friend rather than a guy that you just met. And I definitely felt that way with read. I enjoyed our conversation. I hope you guys enjoyed listening. Thank you to read for taking the time shout out to Steve Cooper from Cooper talk for helping set that one up. Make sure to follow all three of us on social media to keep up keep up with all the fun

stuff that we're doing. And look out for Reed's new show gaslit Sean Penn and Julia Roberts, and also catch them on Better Call Saul, although he can't tell me which party is playing or how many episodes but you know, I'm gonna watch the whole season anyway. So if you want to support my show your likes, shares and comments go a long way. And please make sure to subscribe wherever you watch or listen. And if you want to go

that extra mile. You can always write me a review on Apple podcasts or rate me on Spotify or wherever you listen. Thank you again for all your support. Have a great rest of your day. And remember to shoot for the moon