surreal interview today with legendary filmmaker Penelope Spheeris. She's directed all the decline of Western civilization movies along with suburbia, plus Wayne's World, and some other really cool, interesting projects. And she's got great stories about rock music, Hollywood filmmaking, and more. Definitely one of my favorite interviews so far this year, enjoy I'm here. All right. Well, thank you so much for doing this. I appreciate it. Big fan. And I just watched I watched some of
your movies. And I just watched the third Western decline of civilization because I heard you talk about how that was one of your most, your best works of film, basically. And I agree, I just watched today. I was like, wow, this is really good.
Well, thank you very much. Thanks for watching. It is my favorite film I've done.
Yeah, it's interesting, because although the first two are more focused on music, this kind of has a music on it. But it's really more just about these kids who some of them are in bands. But it looks like most of them were just kind of punk fans more. So when you say,
yeah, once I started shooting the film, I realized it was more about a homeless gutter punk than it was about the music because the music hadn't really changed or evolved that much. So I don't know, I think a good documentary will take you down the road that it wants to, you know, I mean, like you're not in charge. The the subject matter is, you know,
Oh, absolutely. And it's interesting, because that movie seems so much more relevant today even because the homeless population has just grown so much. And so obviously, things have changed since this movie was filmed, but just to have a kit to capture that point in time. I mean, they didn't have the fentanyl and stuff back there. I mean, they sell drugs and alcohol, but
yeah, I don't know what it is. I thought about that lately, that somehow, I I saw into the future, you know, even even when I did suburbia in 83, you know, that was about squatter punks, you know. And then when decline when I did decline, three, it was as if all those kids had watched suburbia. And then they lived that lifestyle, you know?
Yeah. It's interesting that the squatting thing because now you've got the homeless encampments, but the squatting thing was actually like, really smart. And that was one thing that really stood out in this third movie was just how smart these kids were. And I think you even say to one of them, you know, it seems like
you've got a good heart. Like, I when I see those kids, I know on the outside, you know, they look punk, they got spiked hair, and they, they kind of appear wild, and they're doing crazy stuff. But like, when you interview them on camera, like you start talking to them, you can tell that they're just kids, they're just like, normal, smart and pretty good hearted kids. And they just went through, you know, some rough things in their life that you obviously highlight in the film.
Yeah, and I think that's, you know, one reason why I relate to them because I had a difficult upbringing not as bad as theirs, but most of them you know, but, um, I don't know there right now, like, my friends are my punk friends. I don't really have Hollywood friends. Cuz basically all those people suck. I don't know, I shouldn't make generalizations. And you seem like such a nice guy. I don't mean to be bad wrapping people was such a nice person talking to me.
Oh, well, thank you. Yeah, that's nice of you to say that five minutes.
Had an easy childhood.
Ah, yes. And no. I mean, I think it was easy in terms of like, we weren't poor, like there was always like food on the table and stuff. But like, I wasn't like a popular or well liked kid growing. I mean, I was like, I was really skinny. And so I was like, always bullied for that kind of just people kind of just pushed me around. And so by the time,
you mean, the fat kids push you around,
just every kid and he is bigger than me, which was like every kid so I mean, it's nothing like what what you went through, which was interesting to you kind of have an interesting perspective on it, though, because I heard you say something about how, you know moving around a lot and what you went through, it prepares you for adulthood because adulthood, you get knocked around a lot and you can't predict things and all that kind of prepared you for
that. It's kind of interesting perspective on that.
Yeah, I got I went because I my father owned a carnival and my mom. She worked on the Carnival and Have we traveled, you know, every week, so that we would be in a different location on the weekends, and be able to take all the money from the people out in the country? No, I'm just kidding. That's what they thought though. They thought all the carnival people were there to rip them off. You know,
they provided entertainment who didn't love a carnival or fair?
Exactly. You know, my dad had me shooting people out of cannons and used to hang me over the I'm lashing talking about this because I'm writing a book, I'm actually making a movie.
Right? Yeah. With your daughter to is she going to help you? Well, she
was and then she crapped out. So now I'm just kind of doing it with me and this editor that I met, and I don't know, you know, my daughter, Anna Fox is the most lovely person in the whole wide world. And we're the best friends. But you know, either you're into the movies and directing or you're not, you know, and she's just not, you know. So yeah,
that's it. So you're still into it. Because you don't have to work right? You've made enough from the other films that you could retire, but you still love it for the art of it. Right?
Well, Chuck, I must say, I don't really give a flying F about making movies anymore. And when I say that, I mean for the studios or some independent movie that somebody else wrote, but I will finish this movie on the Carnival that I started and I have declined for in that computer over there. And that's about it. I don't I don't like movies anymore. The ones the new ones that they're making, you know, they don't interest me. I don't ever find I never even look at TV anymore.
Because, you know, everybody's like, Oh my God, you're gonna yellow jackets and Yellowstone and yellow everything. Oh, I can't even watch this shit. You know?
Really? I feel like kids, we're living in the golden age of TV. There's so many TV shows, and series out there.
Well, I don't know, to me golden age. And I guess I'm just an old fart right now. But was like, you know, the comedy like I Love Lucy and all those Mary Tyler Moore shows and that sort of thing. You know, but that was my time back then. Growing up, and I think I learned a lot about comedy, at least enough to do Wayne's World. Back then, but I could give a crap right now about watching TV. Yeah,
it is interesting how there doesn't seem to have been any major big comedies that I can think. I mean, there's a lot of these science fiction or like, comic book movies, and there's a lot of big kids movies and some action movies, but I'm trying to think of the last like really funny, like, raunchy comedy. Or even just like a Wayne's World like a PG 13 style comedy. I can't think of that many in the last 10 years.
Yeah, well, that's because I haven't been working in the last. Yeah,
yeah. It's like, I mean, I think you may be right about Hollywood, maybe a little bit clueless on some of this stuff. Like, I feel like somebody needs to come along and shake things up and make like a, like an old school like 80s or 90s, kind of, like, raunchy comedy.
They know what is the internet kind of scrambled everybody's sense of humor. If you ask me, you know, people aren't laughing it stuff that I personally don't think is funny. And so, you know, how can I make a funny movie if everybody else thinks other stuff? It's funny, you know, I mean, I don't know, the internet is just throwing a wrench into things in a way, you know,
like, do you think stuff has to mean spirited or just too goofy? Or
I'll be honest with you a lot of it. I just don't get, you know. And also, yeah, the mean spirited stuff. Nice. Boy, people can be so mean. And it's terrible, you know? But uh, no, I'm, I just I don't watch movies. I don't watch TV. I don't listen to the radio. But I guess I'd better listen to your podcast. I just watched a little bit of your D Schneider thing. I didn't know you also had video that you put up on, you know, YouTube, but guess I could have done that. Put some makeup on. You know,
hey, whatever works, I can put a nice picture of you up. The last one I saw was that you had a really good picture like this black and white. I was like, wow, that's a really cool picture. Oh, yeah. That's I think that's your profile picture on Wikipedia or whatever. But yeah, so it's just that's so interesting. So you've kind of just gotten burned out on the film business basically.
Well, I mean, you know, it's I don't mean because Shay here but been there good that you know, done. it over with I feel like I build houses. I feel a creative urge. I'll go redesign a landscape on a hillside behind the house I built. You know, I build houses now. And I feel that's my creative out. Let right now building houses.
Yeah. And are you? Are you doing it to help people? This is like Habitat for Humanity kind of thing.
Well, if somebody wants to move into this empty guest house I have right here, I'd be sure. Yeah, I got a foster kid that wants to live there. So no, I don't do Habitat for Humanity. I actually build a house for myself and my boyfriend to live in. And I rebuilt about three other houses. And I rent them out. So I don't have to take shirt off of Hollywood movie executives anymore. I can just get some rent money, you know?
Yeah. It sounds like you took it's so interesting to hear. I listened to a few interviews, the listen all the people that all the shit you had to deal with. I was like, damn, like, because I think a lot of people just kind of tell me the good stuff. And you are you don't hold back. Like you're you're telling people like, oh, this person talks, you know, they were mean, to me this person was mean this? Oh, this is really interesting. I mean, you've talked about the
good stuff, too, obviously. But there's this
kind of code in Hollywood where I don't know what where it came from? Probably the 30s or 40s, or something where you're not supposed to say anything bad about the industry or anybody in this in, in the industry. You just never supposed to say anything bad. Well ask that because if something bad happened, why can't you say it? You know? And I mean, everybody blows it up and makes a big deal out of me and Mike Myers, having a vision fight wasn't a big deal. But um, you know, yeah, I
tell the truth. What can I tell you?
Yeah, that was interesting. Mike Myers. I think that's why I reached out because I saw that article. And I was like, Oh, wow, this is really interesting. And then I was like, oh, maybe she'll do my podcast. And thankfully you did. But yeah, so some of the other things like the, the thing you had with Lorne Michaels, but tell me about before you guys started, like you were friends with him before he became like the SNL powerhouse because I
can't picture him. Other than being like, you know, the power suit, you know, wearing guy that he is today, like, so was there a time where he was just wearing like jeans and T shirts and just like a regular guy?
Oh, hell yeah. I'm backing up. Early 70s is when I met Lauren, and he was good friends. We have friends in common. Gary Weiss. And John had Ed Baskin of Baskin Robbins. You know, they all worked on Saturday Night Live when it when it came to fruition. But yeah, I knew Lauren. When he was sitting, he sat in my dining room. And I was making him an omelet. He still says I make the best omelets, by the way. And he was reading the morning
newspaper on Sunday. And he said, You know, I think I'm gonna go start a show in New York. And maybe it should even be live and who knows Saturday night, whatever. So yeah, I knew him way back then. And he asked me to go to New York to work on SNL. But Anna, my daughter was just three years old at that time. And I didn't want to leave LA and just pull her out, you know, so I stayed here he goes, Well, will you help me if I need anything in LA? And I said, Of
course I won't. And I'll do anything for a weekly salary, you know, so he calls me and said, I found this really funny guy. He he doesn't want to be a player on the show. But he wants to make little movies and you know how to make movies. So when you teach it when I said okay, and it was Albert Brooks, so I worked producing on the show. Yeah, in the early days. Yeah, but they would never let me make movies because guess what, chicks don't know how to make movies. Haha.
Hmm. Now that is so weird at times have changed quite a bit. Now. I feel like they're promoting that more. They want to get more female directors and such.
Yeah, just when I quit. It's my luck, right? Yeah.
So that's crazy, though. So you were before you made the you wanted to make the first western decline of civilization movie and your friends were like laughed at you. And these were like, this was like Billy Crystal and people like they were like,
Jim Brooks was a friend Batman and Rob Reiner and Penny Marshall because they all knew Albert and I met them all through Albert. They were all like Beverly Hills, Beverly Hills brats, and I'm like from you know, Orange County trailer park and I didn't know what the hell was going on in in Hollywood. But I learned a lot about Hollywood from those people. When And, yeah, when they when I told him, I was gonna go make a movie about punk rock, they made fun of me. Just like they made fun of you when
you were a skinny kid. And they laughed at me
or your friends. So didn't they make fun of you? And then they said, Okay, we're, you know, we're just kind of kidding around, actually, we really support you or they just never
know, they didn't say we support you. Because you're gonna do it anyways, punk rock back then was so misunderstood. You know, it's like, people were afraid of punk rock in 1977, you know, and you couldn't even talk to us all the straight, you know, movie community about punk rock, because they would laugh at you and go, that's a bunch of bullshit, you know? Yeah.
I mean, it seems that you had the last laugh because we're still talking about that movie. And I think the one you turned down was Private Benjamin, which, I think probably is a good movie, too. But I feel like it's not. I'd be more proud of the punk movie than private venture. You
know, the thing is, I just had such a urge to make a movie about this punk movement, because it just seemed important, you know? And if my straight Hollywood friends didn't believe me, they weren't straight. They were all doing drugs, but whatever. Um, but you know, if they didn't get it, well, too bad. I just had to keep going and what I believed in you know?
Yeah, that's really interesting. Because you've you've you turned down so many big movies over the I just kept hearing and all these things, interviews where he talked about Yeah, I could have directed this a spinal tap, but I didn't want to make fun of heavy metal you turned down Legally Blonde.
I know. Some of them I kicked myself in the ass for because not Legally Blonde necessarily, but you know, well, and I turned down like a shitload of money for I think it was $3 million. I got offered as a salary to do George of the jungle, you know, right. God, God bless Brandon Fraser for getting an Oscar lately or whatever the hell it was you want. But you know, it's just I couldn't do it. You know, I I didn't want to make all those comedies I made in the 90s. I
didn't want to do it. But I couldn't get the movies I wrote, financed. So see, once I get Wayne's World I was in a pigeonhole. It was like, Penelope Spheeris yella, she can make us a lot of money by doing a goofball comedy, so we'll offer her and so I took the money finally, because I can't get my own movies made. You know, my daughter, I told my daughter, Anna, keep them because when I die, there'll be worth a lot of money.
The scripts you have that you? I mean, you saw the scripts that you couldn't get man they're
right behind me is in that in that you can't see me but but right back over there. In the corner, there's a big file cabinet with a shitload of scripts in it, you know, that I could never get me.
And you don't have any interest to try to make them sell finance them now.
What's the point? You know? I'm
curious to see what you'd come up with. I mean,
you only live so long. I got a few years left, I guess. I don't know. But what am I going to do with that time? You know, go beg somebody for $3 million to make a movie that I wrote 20 years ago? And you know, no, I told her just save a man because, you know, let's let her and her kids. You know, Salomon and but I gotta die first. I'm not gonna have to do it when I'm still alive. Again. I'll give you one.
Yeah, that would be I mean, it'd be curious just to at least read it. That sounds interesting. I mean, you made you had this eclectic career. But it's not you said like suburbia was that was the movie that you wish you would have made more movies like that? Like that was?
Yeah, well, you want that? Well, let me you know, they wouldn't let me do it.
That's so stupid. Because it seems like with the hit Wayne's World, you should be able to do whatever you want.
Thank you. And I walked into John Goldwyn 's office when he was going to do leap of faith and I said, Look, I just made the studio 180 Whatever million dollars with Wayne's World. So can I please direct direct our leap of faith was Steve Martin because I can make that movie really well. And I didn't get the gig, you know? And that's Hollywood. There are no friends there is no loyalty. And you can't expect to be paid back for Doing good, so fuck them all.
Yeah, I like that movie leave. It's kind of like the righteous gemstones. I know you don't watch new TV, but you might actually like that show. It's on HBO. It's pretty good. It's about it's a similar kind of thing about this
watch and none of that shit, man. You know what else? I never saw me per se because I figure if they don't want to give me the job, they can, you know, I'm gonna pay 20 bucks for a ticket.
Yeah. Why did they give you a reason why they didn't
know, but I mean, I I've been shut down so many times. I don't even need a reason anymore. You know, it's just like, I don't know why. I don't know why
it sucks. Yeah, well, one of the movies that you did do that. I don't hear you talk about a lot in the interviews. But I love I think it's underrated black sheep. I love that. I'm a huge Chris Farley fan. And I thought that one was on par with Tommy, boy, I love both those movies. But talk about that. I know that there was some problems with the script. They rushed to get the script, they told the script writer that you got to finish
this by this date. And he had to he wrote like 45 pages over the weekend or something. But
that would it count for the speed they were using?
We did that? I
don't know. I don't know if anybody was using speed. But there was a lot of drippy noses around. Now. Here's the thing. Yeah, black sheep. I didn't really want to do another. Another comedy, you know, but Sherry Lansing call me up in his head. Hey, we don't have a script. But would you do this movie with Chris Farley. And I said, I love Chris Farley. I would love to do a movie with him. But I really need to kind of see the script, you know, lady, and we don't have a
script. So they had to do it because cuz Chris had an obligation to do another movie after Tommy Boy contractually over at Paramount. And unless the studio exercise their option by nine o'clock on Monday morning, he was going to go do cable guy. He really wanted to do cable guy. Yeah. And so they were on the phone at four o'clock in the afternoon with me going, Chris isn't going to do anything with us until we tell them who the director is. And I said, Well, I you don't have a
scrap, what am I gonna do? And, you know, they say, oh, we'll give you two and a half million dollars. And I'm like, for myself. Yeah. Oh, and I just sat there silent. She got Goldwyn on the phone. And then he goes, Okay, penalty to seven, five. And I promised salary to 75. Yeah. So anyway, I sold out what can I tell you, man, I'm old fucking punk rocker and I sold out. Because I can't get my own movies made. What am I gonna do? Oh, shove the money and I can't
get my movies made. You know, I took the money, you know, but it was
I liked that movie. I mean, what was it like working with Chris Farley? Because I heard you say he does all his own stunts. Was he also really funny, like, off camera? Because that's what I've seen. He's not okay. In my opinion. No, really. He wasn't joking around with speed and stuff like that, like off the camera?
No, they would say things like he Chris would say things like, um, do you think that? Actually, I think Chris was depressed if you asked me, you know, and, and, in retrospect, and I've never said that publicly before. But you know, he would say things to me, like, do you think people would still like me if I wasn't fat? And I'm like, of course they would. You're funny. You know, you're a great actor. You're, you're charming. You're lovable. They would. They would love you
no matter what. And he goes now Now they only liked me because I'm fat. You know? And that's kind of sad, you know?
Oh, my God. That's heartbreaking. Wow. That's Oh, that's so terrible to hear that. I remember when I was a kid. I was a big John Candy fan. And candy died really early. And I didn't I was like asking my dad I was like, I don't know what How did he die? So young and my dad, a lot of times that people are bigger like that, that they're laughing on the outside but crying on the inside. I think another example that it sounds like your dad
is correct. I was with the morning I found out John Candy passed away. I was driving to work on the little rascals and Daryl Hannah was working that day. And I said I said I'm sorry. And I'm just devastated. It's really hard for me to even work together. What's the matter as well John Candy died and she blew it man. She went into downhill spiral spin out in No, no. I didn't know it. But she was working on a script with him at the time very closely. And I had no idea. Yeah.
Wow. Yeah. It seems like there's a lot of that in Hollywood where they just don't talk about some of the bad or at least they didn't. I feel like maybe things are hopefully changing now, but a lot of that stuff was kind of pushed under the rug. Like he just didn't know. I didn't know Chris Farley had all these problems. And so it came out later.
Yeah, I didn't read his book or anything. But um, yeah. Everybody's got a lot of problems. We're gonna tell you, uh, you know, everybody, everybody you know, anybody that's really happy and like perfectly. The some of the people that rent my houses though. They're, they're on this like, New Age. Hippie trip? I don't know. Yeah, I mean, I keep renting it. And I thought, oh, is the third yoga teacher. I've
got in one house here. So and they all like, they walk around in white robes and go to Mexico and learn how to be a guru and shit. You know, I'm sorry. I just don't get it.
So you don't meditate. you've ever tried meditating or anything like that?
No, I ever tried it. Yeah. It doesn't fucking work.
Well, yeah, I mean, I think it's one of those things that the people that are really good at it, they practice and that's what I was told. I tried to do it. And I was like, they told me I'd monkey mind because I can't I can't focus on relaxing. Oh, yeah,
monkey mine is a Buddhist price. And all of us OCD people have that. And I know it's hard to control and meditating, theoretically controls it. But I live right behind one of the houses that I rent and I watch these idiots walk around and he's long white robes and flowers in their hair and shit, you know? Give me a break.
So what calm you don't like TV? You don't want to make movies. So is it just the building houses that like calm you down and center you and kind of like relax a little bit or give you something I've just
taken now. The only thing that calmed me down and I mean ya know, as I've gotten older, I've gotten less of that manic energy. And I think that manic energy can actually be destructive if you're not able to control it. And I didn't mean to speak poorly of meditation because I have great respect for it. But it's just people my whole life have told me you really should be meditating Penelope, you know? And I'm because I'm so hyper and OCD and and and, you know, over over the edge there,
but I'm what calms me down. A nap.
Yeah, well, no, but I mean, maybe that's you just were able to channel that energy into filmmaking. Because if you were kind of like a laid back really calm person, it would be hard to work as hard as you worked on these films, right? Because I mean, isn't a filmmaking industry, like, you work really long hours and like hard.
That's the thing Jack is, that's another reason why I really don't mind that I'm not making movies now. Because first of all, the hours are just insane anymore. And your your product, your movie gets lost in the streaming shuffle. And, I mean, I drove off the road one time when I was shooting suburbia, because I was, you know, all night long shooting and fell asleep at the wheel with my kid in the
backseat. You know, it's like, ah, and now unfortunately, everybody wants to be in the movies or making movies or whatever. And so they hire a lot of people that don't know what they're doing inexperienced people. So there's a lot of different reasons put together. Why I'm glad I'm not doing it anymore.
Yeah, that's interesting. Because you actually spoke highly of film school where some people say, Oh, you don't need that. You say that? It really helped you.
Yeah, I think what is it like Tarantino he always saying you don't need to go to film school. Well that guy so I think Tarantino No,
I don't like his films, or you don't like him as a person are both
both. What now? Actually, I like Kill Bill. Okay. Yeah, I know too much. Okay. I know too much. But I'm not gonna sit here and bad rap Tarantino because he's probably got a bigger better lawyer than me.
I'm sure. It's interesting that he's retiring. He's only going to do one more film. It's like right
how many times it Ozzy Osborne retire At the end, retirement sucks tour.
Yeah, yeah. Tell me about working with him because you did that movie. Obviously, it was never released. We sold our soul for rock'n'roll, but, I mean, did you work closely with him it? Was it more of the other bands on AWS fest?
No, I and I was friends with Sharon and Ozzy for probably, you know, 20 years before I did we sold ourselves for rock'n'roll, so I've known them forever. And, and I forgot what you asked me what?
Oh, just what it was like, I mean, obviously, you interviewed him and declined to but know what it was like to work with. Like, Sharon, like scares me a little bit like she's, she seems like somebody you don't want to fuck with from the stories I've heard. Like, she's probably really nice if you're nice.
So for the rest of the podcast, we're gonna have you say that 100 times. Anyway, um,
good advice, though. I mean, if you've refreshed, you're able to be friends with her for 20 years. You might tell
Sharon, I told Sharon. Well, after we work together, it's a whole different thing. But I told Sharon, I said before, I worked with you on solar cells for rocker. Well, before that, I always thought I was the most badass chick in the world. Okay, that's what I thought, sort of God badass rock, a little chip in the whole world. But then after working with her, I said, I give you the title. That bitch and badass man. No, she brutal. She brutal. You could watch her head roll with your feet, man.
That's is that the secret to her success is just being so like she's a good business woman. I feel like she knows how to get things done.
The secret to her success. Now there's a phrase. And what success are we talking about? I'm missing.
I mean, doesn't she part of the ratio?
Go on that show she did when she
and oz Fest and the way that she all I know she's a part of the reason she badass
businesswoman. I learned a lot from Sharon. I'll tell you the thing I learned from Sharon. That was the most valuable to me. And that is how to use time to fuck people's head around. That concept.
Oh, how?
I just don't say anything to him and it really fucks their head around. Okay, I learned a lot from Sharon. about timing. And what to say when you know she's she's brilliant. She's brilliant. And she's mean is hell. Okay. Yeah. And thank God she gave us a you know, a life time of Ozzy music and black satin. for that I thank her greatly for not releasing my film. Long story, but maybe someday after I'm dead. It'll be
seen. Yeah, just seems like such a dumb way.
I just remember. She agreed lately that we could show the film at the Motion Picture Academy museum on August the 18th. So yeah, you're in Chicago. Is that right? No, Arizona
I'm in Arizona. Yeah. Oh,
okay. Well yeah, we should get you a ticket out here for this gonna be a bitch and film screening. I'm telling you Oh, anyway, how
did they get the rights because wasn't the thing that they didn't have the rights to go there dude. Okay
show the film
all right, that is true punk rock saying fuck it we're gonna do
well she I'm just glad Sharon finally agreed to show it you know? Yeah, it's been 20 years.
Good. No, that's got to be fascinating to see that that would be really interesting for sure it
is it's you know as as the decline is a historical document we sold ourselves for rock'n'roll isn't historical heavy metal document now. And did I tell you decline was inducted into the Library of Congress National Film Registry recently did I
saw that? Yeah, I saw that. I think I think I saw an article or something about it. But yeah, that's great. That's amazing.
Yeah. And so I don't know these films about music that I've done are getting some kind of respect and you know, it'd be cool if some of ourselves would be able to be seen at some point. You know,
what bands or can you say what bands are in it? I guess Yeah, it was because
you got you got Black Sabbath headlining you got zombie Rob Zombie. You got Slayer Primus Fear Factory. In Slipknot System of a Down static X. You got a great thing with the Bucket Head guitar player you know Bucket Head. Yeah, he was in for a little Yeah. Yeah. And I forgot one but yeah, those bands. That sounds
amazing. So you do interviews with them and show
but actually I take Slayer out to Alcatraz when we when they played San Francisco. Yeah, I interviewed him in Alcatraz. Yeah. Fun stuff in that movie.
So was it your idea to interview him in Alcatraz? Because I know in part two, a lot of the interviews like Paul Stanley's like, Oh, you got to interview me here with all these playmates, or like, a lot of them are their own interviews, and you just went okay, I'll do whatever you want.
Yeah, I can't remember if I'm pretty we were in San Francisco. I mean, what are you gonna do to stand on a hill? You know, it's like, we went, I thought of going to Alcatraz and the band liked the idea because they wanted to visit there. And they were like little kids in the jail cells. It was hilarious.
Oh, that's funny. Yeah, I did the Alcatraz tour at night, because I thought they said my movie. Yeah. So you did a movie about speaking of supernatural because you did a movie. I've never heard anyone ask about this. You did a movie about UFO abductions? I haven't seen it. But what was your take after doing that movie? Do you think it was all bullshit was
actually a part of the Paramount TV series called UFO abductions? Yeah. And I actually did a huge amount of research about that subject and realized while doing the research, that it's possible. And I still think it's possible that something like that happened to me because I was when I got out of high school, I wanted to go me and my best friend wanted to go to New Orleans. And on the way back, I
was driving her car. And over the roof of her car in the middle of the desert, there were these four blue, the size of basketballs for blue balls above the car, following the car, I swear to God, I looked up and I'm like, did I just go under an underpass? Or what? And then the next thing I remember, she was driving the car, and I was waking up in the passenger seat. So I'm pretty sure we both got
abducted. Wow, I know, when I interviewed all these people for the for the TV show, they were talking about these balls that would follow them around. You know, I don't know if you've ever heard that before. They're blue. They're bright, blue, glowing. And yeah, they follow you. I know, I sound like a nut, right?
No, I had a guy on my show who specializes in this stuff. And I mean, it's there's so many eyewitness accounts, I read his book. And I talked to him and he's talked to a lot of these people. And it's really interesting. I don't know what to believe. But I don't think it's all bullshit, either. I mean, there's something going on. I think there's something going on. In the news right now. There's something in Vegas a sighting? I don't know. I mean, oh, really? Yeah. There's like often,
when we, one of the most fun stories is when we were shooting, we were shooting in Griffith Park. And you know, we had this fake alien ship that had crashed into the side of a mountain and we were all out there middle of the day, okay, we're shooting this thing. And some guy on a horse because you can grant a horse up there in Griffith Park and La here. And some guy comes by and he's totally naked on the horse. And he's, no, he had a hat, cowboy. Yeah. Okay. And some cowboy
boots on. And he, he kind of rode through the scene where we were shooting. And I said, What's up, man? And he's like, Oh, just looking for somebody to go for a ride with. I always remember that from when I was shooting up there.
You must have a ton of stories like that with all these like interviewing all these punk rockers and stuff. And
yeah, I wrote a book. I wrote a book, but during the COVID time, you know, so maybe you had D Schneider on twice, right? So yeah, wow. Even when I get my book done. See my problem, Chuck, is I can't figure out the title. And I can't go to a publisher and say, Hey, I got a book. I want to fuck the title is Yeah. So so I just have to figure out the title. I wrote it with a young man in New York. writes for Roger ebert.com. And sometimes New York Times His name is Simon
Abrams. And Simon and I worked on the book for two years. Yeah. And I told all the stories even about the Naked Cowboy did
not so okay, I would definitely want to read that or two books on audio. But yeah, I love that. That sounds amazing. I've heard a lot of interviews and you always tell different stories. I'm like, Oh, I never heard that one. And like today, I heard one with Rudy talking about you almost directed Rockstar with Mark Wahlberg and then he Yeah, that
guy's an asshole. Oh,
I heard you say that. He showed up to lunch and he had already eaten because he didn't.
Yeah, I was out on the ASA movie actually in and so Warner Brothers wanted him to come out and meet me because I would be such a great director for the movie Rockstar. Well, stupid premise in the first place for the script if you ask me, but whatever. Anyway, so he came out there to Oz Fest and we went and sat in my trailer and had a talk and, and that's a whole nother story. But then he said, then wonder where this is gonna have lunch
where there? Oh, and so we go up to this Italian restaurant on Sunset Boulevard and you want me to two or 230? Something like that. And I'm like, that's a late lunch. Well, fucker already ate. He sat there. He had already eaten. He's picking his teeth and smoking a cigarette. And he goes, Would you like something? Okay, see, that's what happens in Hollywood. If a star has the power to turn down the director. They invite him to lunch. And then they eat first. And don't give them any lunch.
Fuck him. I don't want his lunch you know I'm saying
that's like a power move but like a dick power move like total debt power
moved down. I never liked that guy. And then he bought the fucking restaurant and called it wall burgers. Oh, oh,
that's the one he bought the turn to the Yeah.
Used to be a some I forgot. It was a good Italian restaurant. And he went and wrecked it with his fucking name.
I heard you say to that you. When you're working on senseless, you had to deal with the Weinstein's and you saw they put all this like, like the worthless input is what you I think the word you used, what I say, if I think the term use was worthless input to change things and you're like, Dude, what are you? Why are you changing this? Like you're making it more complicated than it needs to be?
Well, they, you know, there's an old joke. Producer and a writer are walking through the desert. And they're so thirsty, and they come upon this stream. And the writer bends down and drink some water and the producer takes a whiz in the stream. And the writer says, What are you doing, man? And the producer says I'm making it better. And that's what I went through with the Weinstein's it's like they kept rewriting stuff. Give me new pages, and it was it wasn't good. You know, in my opinion,
Harvey never tried to, like, get a massage from you or anything crazy like that.
Um, no, I was too old and ugly. I'm sorry. No, he liked him. Young Actors, bitches. You know, it's not I wasn't his type. But yeah, thank God.
Yeah, seriously. So,
you know, the mental abuse was pretty gnarly.
And it's fucked up on people. Yeah, when they do the psychological head games. I never. It's so messed up. And yeah, you can't claim it as bad as the sometimes I'm just like, Okay, I would rather have somebody punch me in the face and deal with a psychological head game. Oh, yeah, for sure. I want to ask you about this. I read this. I never heard you talk about this. But when that movie you made the night candy five the boys next door. Crispin Glover audition for the part.
But did you it was you said that his performance was too psychotic. Explain that to me, because he's, he's a really fascinating person to me.
I believe he is a extremely fascinating person, extremely talented actor, a little bit kind of maybe borderline spectrum. I don't know. He's odd, you know, but odd in a good way. I like unusual people like that. And I you know more about me than I do because I forgot he auditioned. Now I remember why we were driving around the car together one day. Yeah. Because he he had a dish. He had to audition for boys next door. And then that's the part that Jon Cryer got. Yeah.
Okay. Yeah. So it was just a little bit it was just wasn't ready for that part. What that he wasn't right for that part of the part of Bo I think it was
Write the part of bio but it really comes down again to Sandy. Howard was the producer and he really had the last say about who was going to be cast. And he wanted to cast Charlie and Charlie would just break it out at that point, you know? Yeah. Pain in the ass.
Well you cast it's kind of interesting because you you had flee has been in he was in declined three. And but you also cast him as an actor in suburbia. Right? Was that his one of his first roles and because I don't people know, I mean, he obviously is the bass player for Red Hot Chili Peppers, but he's also an actor, like he's been in a lot of movies as an actor.
I know. And, and he thanks me to this day, because I saw his cute little face with that split and his teeth and those blue eyes and I said, this is a star. And I hadn't even heard him play bass yet. You know, I mean, he's the most awesome bass player. He goes all around the world. And he says, wherever he goes, people call suburbia. The punk rock Bible.
Wow, that's quite a compliment.
Yeah, I hope I didn't piss off any Christians.
That's, that's interesting. Yeah. Cuz that's, that's one of the things in three they talk about. There's a lot of that kind of talk about just like, you know, rebelling against the establishment and stuff. And it's interesting, because there was a lot of hate to the cops. But the cop you interviewed was like, he seemed like a really level headed nice guy. Like I was, was he the only one that would say yes to do the interview?
Yeah, plus, we paid him. Okay. Yeah. So, yeah, he was, I always like to have the, you know, the offset, you know, to the to the concept. So, we have the pin, what's her name? It sounds like Pinocchio in in decline to Doreen Pinocchio, whatever her name was, and she's talking about all the heavy metal signs you can do with one hand? You remember that one? So yeah, yeah. She's the I always like to have the person that, you know, that represents the PMRC. You know, it's like, so yeah,
yeah, cuz I mean, it's not like he was the bad the cop wasn't really the bad guy, though. I mean, you kind of you kind of just feel for those kids, though. It's like, and then when they tell the stories, I don't want to split for who hasn't seen it, but to tell the stories about their family life and then and dealing with the cops. You're just like, wow, like, Why can't people be nicer to each other? Do you think that's part of the issue with with homeless because now it's
such a big issue? How do like how do we deal with it as are you have any solutions or ideas?
Yeah, I went to I was invited to go down to some architectural school very sophisticated place here in LA. And that was couple years ago, and there weren't as many homeless but now it's just through their of excuse expression through the roof. But you know, the I don't think there is an answer right now. And I'm certainly not the one to give it. But if you put a gun to my head, and I wish you would buy, I would say the answer to the homeless problem is to get the mentally ill people some
help. UK, I know a lot about schizophrenia a bit with my boyfriend, 26 years. He's 20 schizophrenic. I've done a lot of research on it. I understand it very, very well. He's a genius on the one hand, like John Nash, and a brilliant mind. You are that one? Yeah. Beautiful Mind went on a beautiful mind. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. He's like that. I understand. He was homeless. My boyfriend was homeless for 10 years before I met him. And so I understand the
mentality from firsthand. And I do believe that if any kind of solution is at hand, it would be through governmental health with with mental illness. And not that everybody that's out there is mentally ill, you know,
seems like it's either mentally a mental illness or drugs or combination of both. Usually, well, the drugs often
causes mental illness, but
where did they take the drugs because they have mental illness? And they don't know how else to cope.
Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's sad, you know, because it's, it's an illness. And so to punish these, I have a person that used to work over at Fox, and they're like, vigilantes in her neighborhood, she, they all get their guns out, and they go down by the LA River, and they show the guns and flash it so that they get the homeless people out of the river bed, who gives a shit. They're in the fucking riverbed. You know, I mean, it's not really
a solution that doesn't, how does it that's what they're doing and see I'm from Seattle right now and they're, they have a huge problem. They're and now they're trying to do this cleanup to get all these move all these homeless people because the baseball the all star game is going to be in Seattle but they're not really solving they're just trying to move them out of the doesn't really solve the problem and my
wife makes I can go off right now but um, yeah, I don't know what the solution is except, you know during the Reagan era there was a big cutback in the laws and the financial provisions for help for the mentally ill I mean, I used to always find a go to locations that were mental hospitals that were shut down, that you could go and rent to make a movie because they kicked out all of the mentally ill people and that was back in the 80s Okay, so all this time these people have had you know, no
help and and yeah, we created this thank you Ronald Reagan.
Yeah. Did you ever do a follow up with the kids in part three like because you get your attention at the end you're like ask him like what are your goals? And so many of them just said like all be dead in five or 10 years like I know there's a follow up at the end. I won't spoil it but for the rest of them, did you did you ever follow up or find out what happened to him?
Well, I'm still friends if I have any friends it's the people from declined three. Yeah, and by the way, I'll send you a decline three T shirts got a great picture of Heather on it. She's the woman on the Boulevard there. Standing in front of the Chinese Theater. She's such a trip. Heather does
an interesting term staging like so it's like you ask people I'll help you can take a picture with me but they charge them that way. You can do make a lot of money now doing that because everybody wants a selfie with somebody.
Yeah, set that guy Michael Jackson on the subway in New York. Oh, dear.
I had an error but wait is that which one was
that's a guy that got killed by the you know, that's how I leave it to me to always bring it down. Oh, all right. Well, I think 45 minutes is up.
Oh, yes. I'm sorry. I'll let you get going on I always end with a charity so we just want to promote rescues rock I think that was the animal charity that you wanted to promote.
Yeah, Christians to Valhalla here in Laurel Canyon devotes 24/7 to rescuing love lots and lots of cats and dogs and I've been up there and I've got a fight. Well, I can't tell you how many because I got a lot of dogs and a lot of cats here that I've rescued. And please rescues rock is the charity that I would like to say please help.
Okay, I'll put this link in the show notes along with your website and I can't wait to see decline for and the movie about your childhood story. That sounds fascinating. All right.
Well, you're absolutely adorable. If I wouldn't have some makeup on I would have been up here on this screen so you can see how adorable I am.
Well, you come back when you want to promote a movie or book. The book. Okay, keep me posted. Thanks so much. Hardy on right party on. Buy amazing stuff from Penelope Spheeris legendary film director. I look forward to seeing decline volume four and the movie about her growing up both some fascinating along with her autobiography. You can support Penelope and the show by liking and sharing this episode on social media. And make sure to subscribe to the show wherever you listen to keep
up with future episodes. I appreciate all your support. Have a great rest of your day and shoot for the moon.