Where are you at? Chuck?
I am in Scottsdale, Arizona.
Oh, wow.
Yeah. Have you played here before?
Yeah, I can't remember when but yeah.
Is there any city like any big city that you haven't played in? You've probably played everywhere, right?
Probably.
Where are you now? Are you in Colorado is because that's where
I'm in. I'm in Westminster, Colorado, which is halfway between Denver and Boulder.
Okay. I'm trying to remember, I think we're gonna go to Colorado, and we're going to go to Fort Collins that's like north of Denver, right?
Yeah, it's north of Denver. And Fort Collins is nice place.
Any recommendations?
Ah, they have a lot of good restaurants. No, not really. I don't get up there that much.
What do you like to do when you go to cities? Do you go to certain restaurants or things? Like what about just in Colorado, in general is our favorite restaurants, parks, things to do things to see?
Well, let me go back to the early part of that question. I used it when I go on the road, make sure I went and hit art museums in New York City or in LA or, you know, someplace. But mostly now we don't have a lot of time. And with the airlines being as weird as they are. We have to go in a day early. So we definitely have restaurants that are favorites of ours in St. Louis or in you know, in you know, four or five
different cities. Hey, let's let's get in early and St. Salt Lake City's got a great Mexican food restaurant about a mile from the airport. So yeah, I've been on the road for most of my adult life. And, and that's why I've stayed in Colorado, Colorado is beautiful. And I get to travel all over.
Is it hard being on the road, the older you get the x I would think like, it's a lot different traveling in your 20s. Like, you know, I hear musicians talks tell stories about sharing a bus with like, a bunch of people in their 20s. And it's kind of fun, but then as you get older, it's like, it's fun anymore.
Not as fun anymore. And yeah, you know, touring now sucks. And, you know, airports and, you know, in airlines with, you know, sometimes 50 canceled flights a day, you know, and all that kind of stuff, it sucks and Firefall like almost every other group that is in our ballpark or bigger in stature, you know, we pretty much had to take a year and a half off during the pandemic, you know, 2019 and 2020. You know, everybody's like, no, no, no, we're not going to live shows.
Yeah, so then you do. Now I heard what's more economical than traveling in a bus is to do these flying dates. And my question was always like, Well, how do you bring the drums but I guess a lot of these places now they have a drum set, or kit that's just set up. So you can fly in bring a guitar and a couple things that you need.
Most places we play. I or a backline company to bring in guitar amps, drums, bass and keyboards. Yeah. And I fly with my guitar on my shoulder. And, you know, we just go and you know, and I have a preference of my 123 choices for amps. And, you know, as a lead guitar player, you know, I'm one of the fortunate ones that has bone tone going and you really get your tone from your fingers and your hands. And it doesn't really matter what amp you play through or what guitar you play
through. You still kind of sound like yourself. But I get a I get a rental amp every night and within about 10 1015 seconds with my one pedal and my echo pedal. I'm a kind of a minimalist on pedals. Again, I go, I'm done.
I've never heard that term. I like that bone tone. I have to remember that one. Oh, really?
Yeah. I mean, it's an old. It's an old term that a lot of guitar players have used over the decades. And it's true. You know, if you put Stevie Ray Vaughn on a Gibson or, you know, a tape Japanese guitar, he'd still sound like Stevie Ray Vaughan.
Now I remember that because I mean, I dabbled with music. I took guitar lessons for a couple years, and I sucked. And I always thought like, oh, maybe my guitar is bad. And then my guitar teacher would pick it up and he just shred all this stuff. And I was like, Okay, maybe it's me. Maybe I'm not very good, right.
Well, speaking of guitar teachers, one of the best things that ever happened to me was when my family moved from the rural Kansas to the Colorado Springs area in Colorado and Colorado where we had vacation for a number of years before that. If I showed an interesting guitar, and I wanted to get out of the fear, this is like 1957 or 58. Okay, I wanted to read guitar out of the Sears catalog, there was $59 that may have even had a little amplifier in the case, you know, one of those
pieces of crap. And my mom was a musician and, and knew that that wasn't probably a very good instrument. And he happened to hear that a world famous jazz guitar player named Johnny Smith from the 40s. And 50s. moved to Colorado Springs and opened a music store and a teaching deal. And, you know, Johnny Smith had played with Stan Gatson. And, and Doc Severinsen, and his bigger Bing Crosby, great guy, and he was, uh, you know, he ended up being a Gibson guitar
indoorsy. And I went and tried out, and he said, I don't usually take kids, this young, eight and a half years old to my mom, but I was one of his first guitar students. And my first guitar was a Gibson three quarter size, student model that he got. And I got to take lessons from the maestro, who was my main mentor in my early life. Until I was 14. And basically, after February 1964, when the Beatles played on Ed Sullivan, I went, I don't want to learn jazz anymore. I want to
do that. And the cool thing about that in 64, I'd already played for about four or five years, and all of my friends in high school, I think I was a freshman or an eighth grade or something, you know, said, God, I think I want to play guitar and be in a band, and I already had a leg up on him. But I was taught by a guy who really knew
his stuff. And I think one of the main things I learned from Johnny Smith, other than melodic playing, and you're having conversations with your audience, when you play solos was that being a tasteful soloist, and playing tastefully isn't what you play, it's really what you don't play. And the spaces you leave, between whatever it is you play, speak sometimes louder than anything you could play. And it's just like, you know, periods or exclamation points on sentences.
You know, it's like, you need that, you know, and I hated so many league guitar players back in the 60s and 70s, just really just shout out how fast they were, and aren't I grade and a big ego kind of thing. And to me, the first and most important thing a band is doing is playing the song. And then everything you do as a player, whether it's soloing, or playing licks, or playing rhythm, is to enhance the song, and not your ego, or I really want to stick this lick in there, you know, kind of
stuff. It's like, you got to legitimately want to make the song better. And that's one of the things that Firefall had done from the start. You know, just Yeah, what
about when you do get to solo because I think on this new album, I heard you, you tried it a little bit, and I mean, it sounds like you're having some fun when you do get to do that though, right?
Oh, absolutely. And on this album, first of all, it was a very careful and selective process about which songs do we do? You know, what's the hard song do we do? Oh, my God, what Doobie Brothers song
should we do? But on the solos, on playing solos on a song that people like, toy Caldwell from Marshall Tucker or Lindsey Buckingham, the great Lindsey Buckingham from Fleetwood Mac, or those, those kick ass three guitar players for Leonard Skinner, or Dan Fogelberg, all of which were great guitar lead guitar players. I'm doing them honor by playing my solo on
their song. And the only song I really copped and really copied was the Dan Fogelberg song on part of the plan because, you know, you know Mark Andes used to play with Dan a lot. He was in Boulder I knew him pretty well got to sit in with Dan a number of times, including once at Red Rocks, and you know, his solo on part of the plan is
about as good as it gets. And I wanted to play it like it's supposed to be, you know, and then on the other songs, like Leonard Skinner down simple man, which is currently available on Amazon you can listen to, even though the album's not quite out. yet on simple man, I only listened to the skinhead version, you know, a month or two before we started recording
it. And you know, and a lot of these songs, frankly, were done with me doing four or five rhythm guitar parts to a click track, and then emailing them to somebody else to put a bass on or hey, let's, you know, and, you know, but on the Leonard Skinner song, I just, you know, wanted to burn and you know, and have my licks, go to town and honor those guys who used to kick ass every night when they played. I've never been a speed burner. So to me, speed is, is used if you've got it some of
the time. And now that I'm older and older and getting arthritic, you know, I'm glad I wasn't as Feedburner because I can still sell a pretty good because it's more about not melodies, playing melodies and having conversation with your listener. And in this case, you know, I wanted to be I wanted to be true to Randy, California on the spirit song. In fact, that's another one. I played his solo verbatim, because that's what it should be.
We and that's probably what people expect to hear when they're listening to the song although you do change some things like on the first song long train running, doing those on you, you guys added some horns, right? I don't remember those horns on the original.
No, they weren't. And I didn't realize the same thing. I can only listen to long train running early on in the process. But what I wanted to do with that song, because frankly, I guessed that there'd be 1000s of Doobie Brothers fans that were gone. How dare they do that? So and that's my favorite damn song. And they may be right. You know, that's why our versions of all these songs had to be top notch and really good.
The original, incredibly signature guitar part by Tommy Johnson in the Doobie Brothers, Dan Kennedy, Dan, you know, that's the primary guitar part on their song. But there is another second part, the plays a lot in plays throughout the song
a lot. And when I heard that I went, I'm making that my number one, because I wanted to kind of not minimalized but I wanted to put that signature Dubey guitar lick kind of a little bit more in the background, you know, and I didn't even realize that they had harmonic all over the darn song. And I'm really glad that we you know, kind of as a last minute, let Hey, Jim and try to
stress him Saxon here. Because probably half of the songs I wanted to keep, right like they were supposed to be, you know, but some more of the songs. I didn't mind going outside the boundaries of what they had done, and changing muffle it up a little bit. Just so long as our version ended up being really good.
Yeah. And I think you did that with a heart song too. What about love? Because, um, and I know you toured with Ann Wilson and heart and I had animals on the show. And I know she was not a fan of the 80 songs, but you changed it. So maybe maybe she'll like this version better.
I don't know. But what's interesting is, first of all, I had no idea what Heartsong could do. And Mark Andy's had left the band. And that was the reason now we used to tour a lot with heart we shared a manager Firefall did for about three or four years, went to Japan with heart. You know, somebody said, Hey, do Barracuda and I went no, no, no, no. Heart should be the only
band that does barracuda. Let's pick a song and John, our new lead vocalist said I could sing the hell out of what about love. Now, let me sidetrack a little bit and say Steve wind Meister, my lead guitar playing guitar player lead singer was in the band for 25 years, quit the band and came back. He's a great singer. When Mark Andy's quit, I needed a bass player and hopefully saying good, and we found John BISAZZA. From the babies, he's in the band the babies but they hardly ever work
anymore. And he would love to be in the band and join into a band who's about to make a record of all these great songs. And, you know, he He's a phenomenal Los Angeles rock star rock and roll singer. You know, just singing and just and for me to have Steven John, sing most of this record, you know, yeah, I'm the third sing and I sing the low parts. And I allowed myself three songs to sing On this 13 Song album, but those are the guys and man they sang great. It
was so amazing. Having John be able to sing the N Wilson song, you know, and he's and we had to put it down some keys. I'm good friends as this John Dessau Ha, with original guitar player, keyboard player Howard leafs, who's been with bad company and, and Paul Rogers for the last 10 years. He's retired now, too. And I have coward. You know, I said, Hey, Howard, we're going to do what about love and you played such a great solo on the original. You want to play the solo on on this song of ours?
And maybe some crunch, you know, power power chords in the choruses? And he said, Sure. And then I sent it to him. And you know, and he said, Why, like, your version is different, but he changed the chords in the guitar solo. And I went, he said, so I can't play my same solo that I did. And I went, I don't want you to play the same solo, you know, you're a great player, come up with something. And that's actually who Howard's in a job playing unison. Howard
solo on that song. So there's three guitar players kind of playing the same thing. Some some was too much echo and me
with no echo and everything. And we made this really big sounding lead guitar solo out of Howard's really kind of thin when he sent me, but it's really funny some of the stories behind this and I'm really glad to have Howard lease on this record, or John Jorgenson, one of the best guitar players in the planet, you know, on the birdsong you know, or, you know, or Tris trician Bowden on drums from Chicago and Kenny Loggins ban. It was great.
That's really cool. Yeah, who did this the vocals on the world turning the Fleetwood Mac song because that one especially those vocals blew me away. I was like, wow, this is really good. Singing on there.
Yeah, jam this ha, that's, that's our new guy. And he's, you know, 1015 years younger than all of us. And he's, he's great. And, you know, I wanted to keep a balance good between Johnson and Leigh Stephens singing lead, throw a couple of mine and you know, and but John is in a whole nother you know, stratosphere by himself and, you know, that Lindsey Buckingham song, you know, we kind of did that one at
a time. And I did four acoustic guitar parts with a click track and a tambourine saying really true to kind of what Lindsey Buckingham did on his original not to solo anything but but that the guitar parts and I sent it out to John, I emailed it out to John and he put the bass on and set sent back that vocal. And it's astounding when he first comes in you go, Whoa, who is that? It's great. Yeah.
Now that's really didn't you guys tour with Fleetwood Mac on the wrong that's
why Yeah, that's why they're on the record.
Memory tour, like it sounds like it would be a lot of fun just hanging out with Fleetwood Mac and tour the world.
Well, it's not so much hanging out with Fleetwood Mac show. Our first album in 1976 came out bang busters. And suddenly we were on the road with the Doobie Brothers in the band leave on Hillman, the boys last tour and Loggins and Messina, and, you know, Leonard Skinner before the plane crash in Fleetwood Mac during the White Album. And they really liked us as an opening act, because we could go play a 35 minute set of radio friendly songs already, and not even have
to get a soundcheck. We were kind of a, you know, military unit ready to go. You put us on stage we'll play. And so we became their, their opening act of choice for the first album, and then a half a year later, when they put rumors out. We opened a lot of shows for them all stadium shows. The biggest show I ever played in Colorado was on on cu campus on Folsom stadium. It was Fleetwood Mac rumors tour. Set 1977 May 1 1977, Bob Seger and the silver
bullet band and Firefall. And what's interesting is two and a half years earlier, we've been playing this little club trying to get our songs together. And two and a half years later, we're in front of almost 70,000 People in our hometown homestate playing in front of Fleetwood Mac who was who was, you know, undoubtedly the biggest band in the world then. Wow, it was great.
Yeah, that's amazing. Stories that have that. Do you looked at some of the concert history again? I don't know if that's accurate because it's internet but I said did you do a show with heart? This? There's a show that says you played with heart blue ice or cold. freewheel and Motorhead. Is that real? Oh,
yeah. motorheads first gig in America. It was Miami. It was Miami, a baseball stadium. I don't know if Hart was the headliner. It might have been. Either the Beach Boys or Doobie Brothers, but it was harch UFO Firefall somebody else? And Motorhead opened the show. And it was their first gig in America. You know, and it was weird as crap to to be on stage going. We're gonna play just remember I love you now.
Right? Yes, I'm just looking at like those bands. I'm like, that must have been different for the crowd that was showing up for those other bands and then they Motorhead must have blown them away.
Particularly to start to show. Yeah, I don't think anybody really heard a Motorhead yet. Wow. Unbelievable.
Did you have a lot of shows like that were the some of these festivals and things. There's a lot of festivals that happen now where there's like they put in so it's even put comedians in between bands. I mean, it'd be weird sometimes when you line up all these different kinds of bands or different kinds of artists. Well, there was one other
one weird bill that we were on. We did three gigs in Texas, Willie Nelson's asleep at the wheel and Firefall. And we're going and we actually we asleep at the wheel open the show, we played second and Willie came on, and we'd get on stage. And it would be all the Willys folks out in the audience in the 70s. And within a few seconds, they're going, oh, a rock band, you know? Laundry rock. Go ahead,
aren't you country rock is that way you're classified as or?
I mean, it's kind of misclassified, and yeah, we're misclassified we weren't. But that came from our history. And our family tree that stuck in the trunk of the tree is the birds in the Buffalo Springfield, and then the branches are poco eagles, grand Parsons, bye, bye, bye bye bye and filed fire falls at the top of that tree. And we have definite birds connections, flying breeder connections, you know, a lot of those connections with Stephen Stills, all that
kind of stuff. So I don't know if it was the song Cinderella, but we were really never a country rock band. You know, we had our influences. But you know, and we weren't really a folk rock band with who the birds, you know, invented that with their second album, and the 12 string and the acoustic guitars and stuff. We kind of had our own little niche. And after a few years, people writing interviews or or radio people would call us the
Colorado sound. You know, but that only lasted in Boulder for a long time. And the truth is, you know, there was this family tree of that folk rock country rock thing that Firefly was really at the top layers of that tree. And then Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers. That's a whole nother tree in the valley, because, and he's played birdsongs and a 12 string coup, you know, but it's like, it's inter interesting and the intertwining nature of a lot of those bands and singers and
songwriters. And when you think about how many bands Bernie leaden was in or Linda Ronstadt was the girlfriend of low George of little feet, and then JD Souder, and, you know, and just the whole thing, you know, is so it's so amazing intertwining and to me, that's kind of what Firefall was, it was part of that mesh of all those in, you know, I mean, Rick Roberts discovered Emmylou Harris when he was in the flying Burrito Brothers and talk Christian to come and have him come down. Did
I tell you this already? Wait, which one? No, no, okay. I must have been my last interview. But then Emmylou went to grant Parsons. Graham's first gig on the road was in Boulder, Colorado. They, they couldn't get James Burton, who played all over the Graham's record GP from Elvis was banned because Elvis wouldn't let James play with anybody else. And Clarence white from the birds amazing play or Clarence White was in the burbs
already. So they hired a guitar player, kind of sight unseen, and he didn't really work out and their first gig was in Boulder and I got the gig. And I went out on the road with them. You know, I got hired. I wasn't a country picker, but I was a good guitar player and play good rock and roll. So they figured out he's better than the other guy. And I got hired. We played our first gig at the world famous art Armadillo headquarters in Austin, Texas. But the second gig was in
Liberty Hall in Houston. And on our last night of that, stand for us, grand Parsons, Emmylou Harris in the fallen angels with me and onto the stage walks, Neil Young and Linda Ronstadt to sit in with us. And it was the first night that Emmylou and Linda ever met or sang together. And after they played two songs, Neil said, Come on, we're gonna have a party in my hotel suite
come on back. So three bands, Neil Young's band, Linda Ronstadt span and grant Parsons band all goes back to Neil's hotel suite, doing maximum quantities of everything. And, and some of us and Graham as he was wanting to do, grabs Neil's guitar and starts playing like 20 or 25 country songs, you know, that I'd never heard of
before. And the amazing thing was me, Lou and Linda Ronstadt staff a little bit away from him, spacing each other of their their faces about six inches apart, and blended their voices in harmony for the very first time. And Graham just kept playing country song after country song, and Emmylou. And Linda just kept singing, and all of us listening and watching to that, and watching that in the sweet. We all knew how magical that was. But we knew it was
historic, too. I mean, grand Parsons, Emmylou Harris and Linda Ronstadt. And it's like, wow,
I'm glad. That's one of those times where you wish you had a smartphone because you'd be taking video.
Yeah, exactly. In fact, I still kicked myself for all you know, we were on the road with the band or Lynyrd Skynyrd, or Philly Mac, and you know, and everything, and I had all access passes. I didn't ever take a camera. I wanted to take an instamatic I could have taken, here's heart, here's Fleetwood Mac, other Stevie Nicks. And I didn't take one damn picture in the 70s.
What other people take pictures use fine band members or audience.
But I don't you know, I don't have any pictures. You know, of me and Mick Fleetwood back in the day, which I got to drink with him a couple of times, or, you know, I,
you know, drink with what's it? What's it like drinking with Mick Fleetwood. That's gotta be interesting.
It was great. Are you kidding? And particularly now, you know, I think it might have been my last interview, or which was saying, oh, it'd be great to hang out with Fleetwood Mac and we didn't hang out with them. We during during rumors, they had five different dressing rooms and five limos, you know, and Stevie and Lindsey had broken up. And written songs about it that were huge hits now that they had to play on stage.
Christine McVie and John McVie, had broken up from being married, you know, and, you know, so I didn't really and Stevie Nicks came and sat in with Firefall once at the Roxy in LA, you know, and stuff, but some of those bands we didn't get to be close friends with, you know, although the Doobie Brothers, the Michael McDonald, skunk Baxter, Doobie Brothers, after the original Tommy Johnson Doobie Brothers, much earlier.
We got to be really close friends with him and, and just looking back, it was so historic and amazing to have even been there not even playing on stage. I got to sit when the band was playing. We'd play our set. And then I'd come out and sit behind the curtain in the wings about 10 feet away from livan helm and watch him sing and play and be just like, oh, you know, yeah, Garth, Garth Hudson on every instrument imaginable behind, you know, between them, and Robbie Robertson and Rick Danko
and Richard Manuel. But sometimes, on that last tour, they would have their five piece Civil War horn section come out and play live gigs. And I was just like, Oh my God. I knew how lucky I was to be privy to all that. Yeah, and
didn't you play with Steve Winwood and Michael McDonald and did give me some lovin? That must have been fun.
That's one of the highlights of my career. Quickly, I I wrote a song for suicide prevention. be on an album here in Colorado called Thank you calling me great song. And they put it out in chorus rings rose a little money, raised a little money, you know? And then I went, Well, what do I do with the song? You know, and I thought, suicides a big problem, let you know. And I knew a lot of people in Nashville. So my first Suicide Prevention at the little bluebird cafe in Nashville.
Michael McDonald was my headliner, who I got to know real well with the doobies David pack from ambrosia who I had met through Michael, and rusty Young from poco. were three of my top stars to to headline the show. And we're playing. And it's going great. It's packed in and I'm, I'm just honored to be the emcee and kind of the guy that put this together, you know, to have all this amazing stuff happening in Nashville of all
places. So we took a break. And Michael came up to me at halftime and said, Doc, Steve Wynn was in the audience. And would you mind it if he played a few songs, and I went, when I mind it, oh, my god, get him up here. And when Steve came in and played, he came up. And Michael asked him what song you wanted to do. And he said, How about can't find my way back back home by blind faith that he sang with Eric Clapton. He says, I'll need an acoustic guitar. And I said, here play mine. So he plays my
acoustic guitar. And we're playing and singing, you know, behind can't find my way home. And it's a really small stage and at the Bluebird, so I could have reached out and touched him. And then he takes off the guitar and the crowds, freaking out loving it. And he starts getting on stage and Michael grabs him and says, no, no, no, give me some lovin. I mean, give me some love. And that's one of the top two or three rock songs in history for me. Young Steve Winwood 15 year olds with
Spencer Davis. Oh, oh, my God, that's great. So anyway, he sits down at Michael's piano. And he looks up at Michael and says, I'll need an Oregon sound. And Michael goes, Sure, sure, sure. And he gets an Oregon sound. And he's sitting literally, one case in front of me. And we sing my favorite rock song. Give me some lovin, with three of the best rock and roll singers ever.
Steve Winwood. Michael McDonnell, I'm sharing a mic with Michael McDonald and David pack, you know, and I'm thinking I could die and go to heaven. Now this is like it. Yeah, I don't have to do anything else. And it was just so much fun. And it was for a real good cause. And we did another one in Nashville, the next year a suicide prevention that Wynonna Judd and Michael McDonald headlined for me. And, and, you know, and I did one here in
Colorado. Oh, no, we did one with Germany out in San Francisco with Germany and Firefall. You know, and I got to meet the guys in Germany who I'd never met before, because they said we'd love to help with the suicide prevention thing. So in
my own small way. My song call on me for about two years or so was the song that all the big boys in Washington DC kind of used to show us is suicide out and the Association of Suicidology or all these different things, you know, these bureaucrats in Washington DC would fly me out to these suicide conferences to sing my song, and I'm going, wow, you know, and what was amazing and terrible and tragic about that was you'd meet the people that would man the hotlines, you'd
meet the bigwigs and bureaucrats from Washington, DC, DC, who, who made on a kept all the money and you'd meet the families of, you know, teenagers who had committed suicide, or I met a couple of families who two young people had committed suicide into just like, Oh my God, and that was shortly after Columbine High School in Colorado. And it's like, you know, not too many people were talking about that, then.
Yeah, well, I'm glad that we can raise awareness now, like, I've definitely talked about that on my podcast many times. Is there a charity that you work with now that people could donate to if they are interested in that cause,
you know, something was suicide prevention, and pretty much any, any of the people that solicit money to do what they do, you know, my song helped to keep the hotlines on you know, in a national coordinated kind of deal because, until that time, you know, it was this state, the state, you know is all pretty not centralized and the US Surgeon General at the time, David Satcher wanted to get an 800 number for anybody around
the country. So, you know, I I feel really privileged and fortunate to have played a small role in that. But, you know, any charity and any charity, local or national was suicide prevention is my guess.
Is that's great. Do you can you stick around for a little more? Do you have another one to get to?
I don't, I'm done for the day. Oh, okay. Yeah, cuz I have some more we can we can keep talking.
Okay. Yeah. I wanted to ask you, did you play it on Andy Gibbs solo album shattered? With that, that's kind of did you actually get to like, work with him and meet him or was the thing he just went? No,
no, no, I met Barry Weiss. While showing criteria studios in Miami. It's the Hit Factory. Right. It was the Bee Gees and Dave Mason and Eric Clapton for 61 Ocean Boulevard and in you know, Crosby, Stills and Nash and, you know, and Firefall made gold records down there. You know, back in the 70s. Our, our first two albums, the engineer on the Firefall albums, was a guy named caller, Carl Richardson. And we had a producer Jim Mason and Carl was a whiz. And you could tell he would be a good
producer. And suddenly, he was a co producer on the Beegees records being made in Miami at criteria albida Luton and Cole Richardson are the producers of those albums. And we were down there making our maybe our third album along with Tom Dowd, that producer Tom down. Amazing. And Carl passed me in the hallway one day and said, Hey, we're making a new record on Andy Gibb. And we got a song that you might just fit on. Great. You want to bring your guitar by
Saturday. And I went? Sure, you know, and I ended up playing on two songs on the shadow dancing album. The only parts of mine they use on the record was on a song called qui. But they use this little heart harmony, ascending line that I played over like a band aid measures or something. And they said, that's great. Thanks. Never met Andy. I did meet very good twice down there. Boy in BGS, hey, day two.
And when the album was done, I realized that I made the record and they were handing out platinum records for anybody who played on the record. And what's interesting is the guy who replaced Rick Roberts when I reformed Firefall, after Rick Roberts was the final guy to quit Firefall the way our corporation was set up is if you gave up title to the name you owe, if you quit the band, you gave up title to the name. And when the dust settled as I went, I could keep this band going.
And John, Sam Matera who's now out on the road with Dave Mason. He was one of the main studio singers at criteria on Eric Clapton's records on on Dave Mason on some Beegees records. And he was singing with Andy on the Andy Gibb record. So I hadn't met Johnny yet. But here six months later, after we got our platinum records for Andy Gibb, you know, we are in Firefall together.
Yeah, that's interesting. So talk about that. I'm curious about that portion of the band's career because, you know, you had those two big hits early, and then Atlantic stuck with you. And then even after Rick left, you still had three more albums on Atlantic's seventh album. Why?
No way. We had three great first albums. With Rick and Larry, writing all the songs. I think I got one, one song on one of the albums I developed later as a songwriter. But, frankly, with no specifics, we had a couple of drug addicts and alcoholics in the band. And when we'd go out and play live, some of those singers couldn't sing. You know, and here we were a vocal band. And I remember Mark Andy's and I one time
looking at each other. before a gig was Pablo Cruz Firefall somewhere and Mark and I went, neither one of our guys can sing. What are we going to play? You know, and that's really a shame that happened, but it will As part of the Firefall karma that was, I mean, we were meant to be in fated to be in that band and, you know, some some people's extra curricular activities got in the way of their performance of the band.
So when Rick Roberts quit, okay, so after our clouds across the sun album, the last album with Rick, and I think that was made using Christian Bowden and George Hawkins from Kenny Loggins ban. So Michael, Michael Clark and Mark Andes had left our band. And, you know, it was an okay record, but erratic in the songs and, you know, problems, Atlantic ended up, ended up dropping Firefall after
that record. And then when the dust settled, and I realized, if I wanted to, I could go on the road as Firefall or start up a new album, or whatever, I could be it. And when I was talking to a lawyer in Miami, who had done some of the earlier Firefall stuff, he said, you know, Johnny Santero, and Chuck Kirkpatrick are great singer, guitar players. And, and bah, bah, bah, we could form the band down here and just, you know, you know, and I went down and met him.
And, you know, suddenly, my band in Colorado was now mostly in Florida. And I was the only Colorado guy. But they were great singers and had some good songs. And I figured, you know, let's go. And that, that attorney, went to Atlantic and said, We got a whole new band, listen to this song, which was always Johnny song always off of break of dawn album, and Atlantic went great. And they signed us again, they dropped us and
that is amazing. I have not heard a lot of stories like that the record business that's very rare.
No, no. And that, you know, and one of the stories that people don't know about the record business, particularly back in the 70s, or in the 80s, when there was shining, a lot of people, you know, is record labels, signed about half of the acts that they would sign knowing that they weren't going to push them or they would not be big. They did it for a tax write off. Well, we got to, we got to pay for Bruce Springsteen, we got to you need two or three acts to, to balance
the books on. And so there were a lot of Acts who thought, Oh, God, we gotta get a record deal with blank records. And oh, you know, and the label would say, you know, this album is not quite good enough, can you do some more? Hey, can you do some more and then they put it on the shelf and never put it out? So Firefox was one of the lucky ones that had the songs and, and almond our air diggin from Atlantic Records loved us for a couple years, you know? So that's
interesting. Do you think the record business is better in some ways in that regard, because anybody can put out a record that can sound really good. I mean, you can make like studio sounding records in your basement. And but you don't need the record label to sign you could just put it out on YouTube or Spotify yourself. I mean,
I don't think it's better. I think it's way more open. And you know, how many 10s of 1000s of people think, hey, I can make a rap record, I can talk, I can I can program a drum machine, you know, you know, so there was something magical, particularly in the 70s. We were lucky, you know, because in the 70s, record labels, if they kind of liked what you sound like, and now they look good, too, they would sign you to a five or seven album deal. And pretty much hands off with the kind of
music you played. So you could get a Crosby, Stills and Nash are out. And America or a little river band or a Firefall or a Loggins and Messina or Kenny Loggins, you know, they were willing to let you do what you did. And they'd be the record label. And then, of course, in the early 80s, pretty much record labels started to get that stranglehold on bands and say, no, no, no, we don't hear we think you should do these
songs. And, you know, you need to get rid of the guitar player and get somebody else and, you know, they had an iron fist around bands next, you know, and it showed kind of in the music, and then the whole grunge thing in the 80s came where, you know, everybody in Seattle was going to record companies, you know, it's like, it's it's all a process, but something about Okay, first of all, we all learned we've musicians and songwriters and singers, learned from the Beatles in the 60s that
you could write your own songs and make all the money. So Rick Roberts had a hit with Colorado, his song Colorado, when Linda Ronstadt recorded it, you know, And he knew about making money and back then songwriters made, you know, when I was making 40 or 50 grand as a band guy in 1976 or 77, that was pretty good money. But you know, the songwriters were making, you know, 2.3 million and, you know,
that kind of stuff. It's like, we were Firefall was a great combination of personalities and sounds, and particularly the songs and players to play those songs that we burned really brightly for about three or four or five years. And, Heck, I've been having my career for the last 35 years because of that first four years of firewall.
That's amazing. And you guys are still touring. There's a bunch of tour dates on the website that people could check out. And this new album comes out what September 15. I think
I heard it was the 20th. But I'll tell you what, I turned this thing in a year ago. chomping at the bit. Yeah. And I was saying, Lynn, you said, I've been telling everybody, it's coming out in June? Well, no, that's when we'll put the first thing. Oh, you know, and so I am just so happy that people are going to be able to hear our respectful and loving versions
of these songs. And you know what, it's interesting, because our manager label said, The Doobie Brothers song is, by far the most commercial song on this record. It's got to be the first song on that on the CD. And that's the first single, and I went, you know, are you sure there's a couple other songs that are in the circle of people that hear it that are saying could be great. And he said, No, the Doobie Brothers? And, you know, about three weeks before
he's going to put that out. And of course, now see the music business. I don't understand it all. It's all about Spotify and Amazon and three listens and this and that. It's like, shit, you know, that's, you know, it's and so he said, No, we did our research. And we're gonna put out simple man. by Leonard Leonard standard song out isn't the first single follow it with the Doobie Brothers song a few weeks before the album comes out. And I went, Okay, you're
the boss. I Yeah. I turned it in the best album that we and I could make you know, and now they're gonna pick what it is. Okay?
Well, it's interesting because with Spotify the crowd the audience's pick the singles because they put the whole album out the one with the most downloads or streams that's going to be the best song the single or whatever,
and we'll see what happens with that. And you know what, and when he picked when he picked simple man, I went well, I only see one problem with that Glenn and here I was thinking is the 70s and 80s guy I said that sounds over you know that sounds over six minutes long. It's not gonna get on the radio and he said, this isn't about radio. This is about Spotify and and getting frames and getting this
Oh, okay. If six six minutes and 20 seconds doesn't matter anymore, but you know what I wanted to keep that song you know, true to the original even while adding that the accordion player on there because I really like our Down Home version. You know that that really sets it like in the back porch kind of thing?
Yeah, would you play any of these songs live because I know I heard you say something like you have the same setlist for the last 25 years up and add one of these songs in there two of them.
We've had the same setlist the same 35 or 45 minutes setlist for 25 years, because people pay good money to hear that six or seven Firefall songs and you know and if we get a headline and we're playing two hours or 90 minutes, we obviously throw other things in including occasional Beatles songs or something but yes, we need to play and are working out at soundcheck so when we get now we are needing to play probably three or four of these or five
of these songs. You know, and, you know, I've even been thinking that, you know, playing it, you know, telling the crowd, the new album, bah bah, bah and then as an encore song playing the Doobie Brothers song and any one of those other songs you know, people are gonna love that because it's a song they all know and love a new version of
of those songs. So I'm just still really pleased and and happy that you know, our versions that we cut being true to that but not having to stick right to the program that most everybody that you know I talked to including so many interviewers and bloggers and stuff, say this is a great record.
Yeah, it's great songs and you guys did an injustice and like I said some of the you changed a little things here and there but I think it all works. I think One of the most interesting songs to me was the last one, the Vegas song because I'm such a Vegas fan. And I'm like, How have I never heard the song? You know, explain the history with x. I know you played with Graham Parsons. Was that song popular back in the 70s?
No. I played with Graham, behind his GP first album on Warner Brothers. When the tour ended, and they flew me back to Colorado, he and me, Lou went out to California, got some more songs together and immediately started his new record, Grievous Angel, which included the song Ooh, Las Vegas. I don't know where the song came from. And not looking. I couldn't tell you who wrote it. But man, I was thinking,
God, that's, that's great. And you know, it has that wonderful country pick and fast Telecaster country stuff that I can't play, I couldn't play back when I was in Graham's band, and I can't play now. And when, when I picked that song as one of the three songs that I would sing on that, having played with Grant Parsons, and Emmylou Harris, who are known for that song, you know, I knew that I needed to get a really hot country picker, to play the country, parts of that, you know, are just going
to town. And there's a guy in in Boulder, Evan grace, who I asked to play on that song. And he told me how, how straight you want me to play this? And I said, I think you should go nuts. And we just recorded him playing the song like three, three different times of just going you know, great country stuff, you know, that we then chopped up and Okay, let's use that lick here and all that kind of stuff. And I played the secondly guitar on that song, but I don't I'm not a country
picker. And I wanted to do Graham and Emmylou justice. So have you heard their version?
No, I have to go back and listen to your version. I was like, this is cool. This, I thought it'd be a cool song. Because I love Vegas so much. I think I'd be cool to go to Vegas and hear you guys play that live. That'd be fun. Yeah,
that'd be fun. So go to Google and type in Grand Parsons, Las Vegas, and it'll come up and you'll be able to hear it off the record.
Yeah, I'll check out a lot. Some of the other originals too that I wasn't super familiar with like, but yeah, a lot of the songs I've heard and yeah, all young bands and stuff so yeah, it's cool. It's like fun. I think it's fun to for bands to do stuff like this and it's always nice to put out new music I know that that's a it's not a huge moneymaker anymore for bands but it's still fun for the fans. And it gives you a reason to do podcasts and get people talking about Firefall right?
I think me Lou, as a solo artist after Graham died, did Las Vegas on one of her albums so you could look a perversion to but the sad thing about the grand Parsons story as most people know is is when he finished his last vocal on his second solo record which would be called grievous Angel. The night after he finished his last vocal he went out with an ex girlfriend to Joshua Tree to party and celebrate the album being done and did too many drugs and drank too much and killed himself
yeah terrible tragedy way too young but lefty left some great music that's for sure way
too young. And you know it's funny I've I've kind of keep myself out of the argument that well grant Parsons invented country rock. Now in in his my opinion, that it was the birds was Sweetheart of the Rodeo the non commercial success of Graham taking them in a
country direction. And the Buffalo Springfield with kind woman and a pedal steel, so that it was early Buffalo Springfield and the birds on sweetheart, then poco which came out of Buffalo Springfield, poco and grant Parsons but also Rick Nelson from Ozzy inherit show when he was a teen throb. He played country, country rock, and also Mike Nesmith from the
Monkees. With his what was his band name the great American something they were all inventing in Southern California, what would become known as country rock and kind of take over the world, you know, Europe, a country rock up, you know, and anything to do with the birds or gram parsons or poco was was really big over there. But really, Graham contributed mightily to inventing country rock, but poco was doing their brand number two.
Yeah. When you play with a lot of these guys, did you say the only one that you haven't played with it's maybe considered country rock as the Eagles. That's one that's on your bucket list.
Well, it's not on my bucket list and I'll never play with the Eagles. But oh, well, they they've got you know, they've got plenty. Joe Walsh. And you know, and they're doing their last tour now. In fact, well, let me just say that. I know Joe Walsh. He did some guitar work for me and it is at his house right around the time that they were making Rocky Mountain way up a caribou with
with Barnstorm. And, you know, and I've met Henley and Rick Roberts used to, you know, know those guys a lot and Randy Meisner was with rip Roberts. So there's 10 girls to the Eagles. But the truth is, is that when the Eagles got to be huge, which their first album didn't go gold right away, and it took a while for the, for the public to go, Wow, I love this stuff. You know, and after Hotel California, then all their albums went quadruple platinum,
and all that kind of stuff. But we never toured with the Eagles. I think this is just my opinion, because we were in a smaller field, but in the same ballpark as them. You know, they were in the big leagues of country rock. And Firefall was a little smaller band down here. But, you know, we'd play with, you know, Little River Band and Dan Fogelberg and goofy brothers and you know, and everything but not
the Eagles. And you know, the Eagles are the top top of the heap with what they do and who they are and the songs they have. And, you know, interestingly enough, we have some gigs next year in Florida with Don Felder of the Eagles Firefall and Jim Messina. You know, it's like, wow, no, that's a that's a cool bill.
Yeah, that'll be really fun. Wow, that'll be I hope we
do more. I hope we do more gigs. And then just to but it's interesting, and you know, there, there are egos and infighting in there, you know, and, you know, in that mess of musicians, but the main thing is this positive the music shines through. And when you look at that whole thing of the, the Eagles poco the birds, you know, Stephen Stills, Crosby, Stills and Nash, Nash and Young Loggins and Messina, Kenny Loggins, you know, that whole thing? You know, they played and sang on
each other's records. You know, you know, Joni Mitchell dated Graham Nash, and was was, you know, hung around and was a huge part of that Southern California thing. It's, you know, I feel really fortunate to who to have played, and maybe still playing a small role in that great music of the 1970s. Oh,
absolutely. Yeah. And people and you're still making music, and I love it and love to see you guys live. You ever come to Arizona? I think my parents I think my parents are. I think that's when I first heard your songs was was as a kid. I think my parents played it.
Well, you know, it's interesting. You know, I'm in my 70s now, and our audiences are older 50s 60s and 70s. You know, because 80 year old can't get to concerts anymore. Really, like 60s and 70s. But night after night, I'll look out in the crowd. And there'll be a couple that are 30 years old, or 25 years old, or some kids singing along with our songs like everybody else in the crowd is. And it's because their parents listened to Dan Fogelberg and Firefall. And, and, you know, all of that back
when they were growing up. So it was it was a great time for music. And I hope the friends and family album reflect that.
Absolutely. Well, thanks for doing this. People can also donate to the suicide or another anti suicide charity or another charity that you want to promote here at the
whatever suicide prevention is about. I just heard about 10 minutes earlier than we started. What's the charity and I didn't really know what you know, because I've given my song call on me away to anybody who wants to use it out there. You know, it's a positive song about a terrible tragedy going on still in America. Yeah, so they can look up if they'd like to donate to a charity, either look locally or look nationally to suicide
prevention. And if they take funds because it costs a lot of money to keep those hotlines work and my phone call on me was written. The person singing the song is the person that's on the phone, trying to talk the kid in crisis on the other end down from the precipice, you know?
Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for doing this and people should download the album. and donate some money to the charity as well. And thank you so much and
family, baby. Okay. All right. Very nice talking to you. You too.
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