Hey, we can talk about anything.
Okay. Well let's Yeah, let's talk about a little bit about your your background here because you some of the the other movies how you started was with trauma right?
Yeah, I basically made a film and sold it to trauma and and had a little gig with them on their TV show and you know met a lot of great people through them and you know, it was a good experience.
Yeah, you made this movie goals is that deck and you gotta get you got to review and variety about that that was positive.
Yeah, no unspeakable was the film that I sold the trauma and then that my next film, The ghouls basically got a great write up in variety, which led to, you know, potential remake with Weinstein and I mean, that's a whole other story but that one around for a while and you know, the power of the pan, you know, or good review can really move things.
Oh, absolutely. What was the thing about you got a rejection letter from Paramount?
Well, you know, back in the day, you would basically make a film and you would submit it to you know, everyone so I, you know, submitted to, you know, Warner Brothers Paramount 20th Century Fox, you know, just being a dumb kid with there was back, it was a producer's handbook that had addresses to every distributor
and company. So it was basically sending out VHS tapes of your film to the acquisitions team of every major studio, every distributor Lions Gate to trauma to everyone and then you know, hoping for the best and getting a rejection letter from Paramount was a highlight of my career.
What so you haven't like framed or something.
It's buried somewhere in the, the garage with all my other junk that you collect over the years, you know, there was always a story of, you know, filmmaker back in the day, they make this great film, and they'd have like, five hours of deleted scenes, and you know, and the negative in their garage, and people would go, Oh, my God, how could that get lost?
And I'm like, well, pretty easily, because after so many years of collecting this shit, you kind of just lose interest in it, and it just disappears where or burns up or whatever it might be. So I can totally relate to how those great films have lost their footage over the years. You know, if just you just get so much stuff that you can't really keep an eye on it anymore. Really?
So do you have a lot of like, cool, like old film props and stuff like that?
Oh, yeah. Yeah, tons of stuff.
Because they're in this new movie. That's called pig killer, which again, we'll talk more about but I just want like that just reminded me in that movie that there's a there's a couple props, there's the pig mask, which I was like, That thing is cool. And then there's the dildo gun, which apparently was like, I read up on this, this this was a real thing. This guy this is based on true story. And this guy really did have like, a dildo gun.
Yeah, no, you had a dildo silencer on his pistol. And you know, he killed a couple of victims with it. It was one of those things of, you know, the truth case, facts of the case. Were you know, more bizarre than anything I could ever think up. So that's why 90% of what's in the movie actually happened. And there's, you know, just, it's frightening and the, you know, the mask was kind of an embellishment to my nod to
motel hell. So that was just one of the little things that I threw in there, just because of the visual is great, especially on Jake Busey with this big Big Ed. Yeah,
so what did you do with those two props this did you keep browsers? No,
I let Joe Castro keeps those so you know that's kind of the thing that was the deal we haven't it's like he keeps all that kind of stuff and then if we ever needed in the future he's got it on safekeeping for us. Remind me again who's we who's Joe Castro does all the special effects and he created the pig mask and you know all that kind of stuff.
Yeah, so explain to the store because I don't know if I had ever heard of this story. Apparently this guy is the biggest most prolific serial killer in Canada is a pig they call them the pig killer.
Yeah, and he killed like 49 women and chopped him up set them to his pigs and then the pigs got ground up for meat and people ate them and you know it's it's one of those things with Canada they kind of buried the kept you know, lid on a lot of the press for it to leak out it took you know decades for it to really get the full details of the case but they kept it pretty hush hush because you know that stuff doesn't really happen in Canada so they weren't good about keeping a lid on the
press and that leaking out. They
weren't it didn't leak out from like the news or anything like
news, you know, the news random, you know, minimal stuff on it. But the whole case in the whole trial was very kind of hush hush. It wasn't like, you know, something here where it would be, you know, sensationalized for years and you know, and everyone would be, he'd be a household name. He's still kind of, you know, the only really way I found out about when the producer Kate Patel grew up in Vancouver so she knew about the case and knew
about everything like that. And she brought it to me and then you know, pitched it and, you know, it went from there, but I had never heard of them before me. Do you hear?
How accurate is the film to the true events? Because from what I read and then what I've watched the movie, it seems to be pretty accurate.
Yeah, no, I'd say it's you know 90% true he through the parties he had concerts he you know, he had picked up prostitutes and fed them and drugs and you know, whatnot injected windshield washer fluid into them, you know, kind of dope dope them up to have his way with them. Right, you know, kill them, then cut them up for him to his pigs and his cohort Pat, who played by Kurt von Zell in the film, had the neck tracheotomy and all that stuff all that it was
actual stuff. The woman who escaped she was a combination of like two victims one that got away and another one that didn't get away. So it was kind of a combining those two actual victims. And, you know, the mother of being abusive and the father all that stuff is true. The sex part with the mother I kind of embellished who knows, you know, you don't know whether that did happen or didn't happen. So I just kind of put that in there just because it's a visual beauty of him making
love to ginger Lynn. Yeah,
that's that was a crazy scene. So what is so the guy with the next tracheotomy? What was wrong with his dick? His dick was like all deformed or something. It was.
It was it was bitten off by a pig when he was a kid.
So that was real, too.
I think so. There was something he had some phobia with pigs I knew. So I kind of embellished the biting the dig part. But there was he had some in a true case, he had something against pigs or didn't want to be near them. So I kind of assumed something tragic had happened with the pigs. So I put that in.
Okay, yeah. So they talk about these parties had this thing called the piggy Palace, good time society, and he actually registered it as like a charity with the Canadian government. Right?
So yeah, he, you know, him and his brother got all this money because they started selling off large portions of their, their farmland, so they were instant
millionaires. So, you know, you not only had the kind of as a celebrity with these parties now that he could afford to, you know, have concerts and have, you know, drugs in women that at his disposal, so he kind of, you know, was just kind of an instant celebrity, you know, kind of a hick farm boy now had all this money and can play these weird, twisted games of
his. So it was kind of just, you know, he would throw these parties, and they called it the picking good time society, which was kind of, I guess, they would get some tax discount or whatever it would be from the government. And just another another thing that's just a weird, just kind of colorful thing to his character. It's just so many things that you couldn't really make up on your own, you know, one
How did all these people go to these parties and not realize this guy was not sort of they didn't see evidence of, I
think that's the thing and you know, on the surface, he didn't seem all that nuts. He was just, you know, kind of a smelly, awkward kind
of guy. But you know, he must have still been had some charm or pretty, you know, that was one of the things that's great about Jake, he's got a certain amount of charm and even though he's doing horrible things, you're able to kind of you know, get beyond that because he's so charming or funny, are we in a weird or whatever it might be and you know, people that Willie the actual killer Gravatar Did you know to abducting and whatnot we're, you know, fringe society, prostitutes, and you
know, forgotten, you know, women. So it's, it's an easy, and especially if you're feeding them drugs, and heroin and all these things, it's kind of an easier thing to control them or to get them into your trailer and do unspeakable things to them.
Yeah. And so I thought I read that the Hells Angels went to these parties, too.
Yeah. No, I read that as well. And you know, there was even a thing that Nickelback actually performed at one of the things is one of the great that's
more evidence for people to hate Nickelback. Exactly. That was so is that what because you have some musician that's there, and the girl is all excited. Oh, you got this. And I was trying to figure out is this was this a real thing? Or is this a fictionalized part?
Well, no, that's he's a real musician. Of course, Gerard McMahon, he was kind of a pop sensation in the 80s. And, you know, he did his most famous song, cry little sister in Lost Boys. He's just, you know, a
friend of mine. And, you know, I approached him before I even started writing the script and said, Hey, look, this, this real life character had these parties going on and, you know, had concerts and you know, different tours and seeing or music is correct to that period, you know, the 80s and 90s Would it be possible to use some of your songs and then also get you to perform in the film and he was
game for it. And that really kind of helped get the ball rolling, you know, creatively for the script to kind of be an inspiration of, you know, this music of the period and kind of the whole party angle in the concerts and kind of just helped make it more real to the period. So we didn't actually play it play at the piggy palace.
Okay, because I don't Like I got to that part there was like, I'm at the part where the girls like, she's like, Oh, you're getting Gerard with me. So is that that is his music soundtrack looks like the the soundtrack is.
Okay, it's all his music and you know, a couple other bands of the period that we were, you know, he was able to get their music for as well to put in there in the soundtrack, but he performs in it and so does Steve Hutsul Berger of live show loud sugar, which was again, a 90s band that, you know, kind of fits the period. So,
okay, so then how do you get Jake Busey, because he's great in this? I love Jake. I'm a big Jake Busey fan from like, his roles, the Stoner and PCU. Right. Yeah, he's, he's done so many weird roles. And like, he's, he's perfect for this. Did he request to be in this? Or did you have to try to convince him? No,
I originally we, I was in talks with Fred Durst playing the role. And that's yeah. He's a friend of a friend. And you know, you read the script, you love the script, and he's like, Hey, let's let's make this happen. And then I'm like, well, that's great. And he's like, I only I just want some changes in the script, I want to take out, you know, some of his penis stuff, and you know, all these other kinds of things because of the, you know, me to movement. And I'm like, No, it's
you either. You're either commit to this 100% as is, I mean, I'm open to create, you know, collaborating and changing a few things, but toning it down because of some bullshit movement. I mean, fuck you. So he, he was gone. And then, you know, my producer Jeff Holden suggested, you know, hey, I'm friends with Gary Busey, his wife. What do you think of Jake getting the script to Jake and see if he'd be interested. And I said, let's, let's give it a
shot. And he sent it to her. She sent it to Jake, Jake loved the script, we met, we met up and you know, he was great. He was on board, and we made it happen.
I'm glad you didn't sacrifice your creative integrity. I mean, me to move and I understand the movement, whatever. But it's, this is about a serial killer. The guy didn't follow the rules. He also rubbers people. Are you going to take out the murder and the rape? I mean, those are, that's what he did. Like you're portraying the story? As is,
yeah, no, that's the thing that can get so you know, you get so excited by like, oh, Fred Durst, this would be great, he would probably would have done the score, he would have, you know, there would have been just as great thing, and we were talking about it, but then, you know, he says, you know, one thing of changing this, and then this and then I've my experiences, if you give even an inch of changing something so big like that, he would want to change everything
all the way through, and then pretty much soon you'd be lose control, and it would not be your movie anymore. And you'd be pulling your hair out and angry. So I decided to take the easier way. And Jake, you know, from the get was, you know, excited about the script, loved it, you know, and was just a joy to work with.
Ya know, I think he does a good job of portraying and so he's acting obviously, I'm sure he's not that creepy. But he just such a good actor. Like, it can be kind of weird, right?
Yeah, no, no, he's great all around. And he really, you know, kind of just, you know, when you're shooting these things, you know, you got 12 pages a day in 10 days to shoot. And you you know, you get it done. And he was you know, on marking, you know, one or two takes and got it we move on, you know,
is it creepy? Or is it awkward? Like filming the stuff? Because, I mean, it's got to be weird for I know, it's obvious. It's a movie. It's fake. But it's still got to be weird for the people involved?
No, I think you know, because it's such a small crew and you know, it's less there's with him in the accurate would be me, the DP ginger Lynn and the sound guy. And so it would kind of be, even though it was a claustrophobic trailer, it still kind of gave them the intimacy was kind of separated, because we're kind of in the back, they're in the back of the trailer, and we're, you know,
catching this thing. So it wasn't really as uncomfortable as it might sound, you know, they had kind of the freedom to do what they want. And if it did get uncomfortable, all they had to do is you know, scream, and we would, you know, figure something else out. But, you know, everyone was game and seem to have a good time.
Yeah, how much research did you do on the true story? I mean, obviously, you've read some Did you read like books? Did you interview people? Or How deep did you go?
Um, when she mentioned it, you know, the, the idea I went home and I watched a couple of documentaries, and then I read up as much as I could find on the internet, and then, you know, kind of took, you know, I knew that he grew up on a pig farm and I knew that you know, all this kind of stuff. So I was able to kind of mirror my own growing I grew up on a farm as well in the Midwest, and we, you know, we had pigs and we had horses and
all that kind of stuff. And I was, you know, kind of a loner, so I was kind of able to understand and get into Willie's head of seeing I've kind of grew up in a similar similar situation. And you know, instead of killing people, I make movies. So as long as you have a creative outlet, Tori for your demons, you know, you'll be okay. And obviously Willie didn't have a creative.
Right? Yeah. So what's weird too, is that the story from what I understand is that Since he's available for or he can get parole after 25 years, you can get parole after you're a serial killer. I've never heard of this. This is a Canadian thing.
That's that's how they roll up. They're not well, he was only convicted of second degree murder on two victims. So, you know, I guess it makes sense for their thing.
Like, do they find like the driver's licenses and stuff in the trailers that how they suspect that he killed those people because they found the driver's license, but there's no evidence of the body? Because like you said, like, I think he grounded up and either fed it to the pigs or insects or like it decompose naturally, where there's like, nothing left. Yeah,
I think that's the whole thing. If they didn't find the bodies, they have no case. So they were able to admit they possibly just found the DNA of maybe those two victims. And that's how it kind of worked out.
That's crazy. But he confessed to some of it right? Well, he
confessed, you know, like the video, when you see it at the after the end credits, there's a scene that's actually verbatim of what the undercover police officer recorded with him, I won't give that away. But that's, you know, watch the whole thing until the end credits. There's like an extra scene with James Russo in it. And it's great, but that was actually taken verbatim of what the undercover police officer said to Willie, that got, you know, helped get him convicted? Was
it? Is it hard to get the rights for something like this? Like, how does that work? Because it is this guy's story? Do you have to have people sign off? Or like, I mean,
no, I, you know, if they're, you know, famous like this, in this famous case, you're able to do a lot. And I also changed the names and the spelling of some of the stuff. So that gives you even more legal freedom without, you know, because anybody can sue anybody, but it was one of those things. The producers were like, just change the last name or changing the spelling or whatever. So it gives it a more of a blanket of us not being sued. So that was kind of the way I went.
Yeah, okay, that's the, because that'd be something that would worry me doing a movie like that. So you don't need to, you don't need to, like get the right, or I guess if somebody had written a book, and it was based on the book, but you're just taking the story in general and just making your own
right, like, you know, they make you know, Richard speck and you know, Ted Bundy movies all the time. So I think it's just, it's kind of or you can, you know, make fun of the President or put a president that famous people to whatever degree you're able to you have a freedom to use them a fair use, I guess it would be called in. Okay.
Yeah, I think that's how I get away with putting something pictures and video clips. As long as it's like, I'm commenting about it or something like that. Right. Right. Right. spoof. So yeah, you because you have some, you have some dark humor. And it's just like, kind of weird. I mean, some of it like the dildo gun, like, I mean, that's actually been accurate. So I guess, I mean, that is, but it
is kind of funny. And there's other like little, like, things that you do that are just, they're kind of like, humorous.
Well, that's the thing. I mean, if you're going to make go this dark, and this, you know, perverted there should be, you know, lighter moments to kind of carry you through. So it's not a complete slog of depression of, you know, seeing it as, you know, there has to be a certain amount of charm to him and a humor and, you know, kind of to carry you through. And that was kind of, in in to me is a lot of it is just, you know, I, I write it and film it and kind of go with a gut instinct.
So if it feels light, or it just comes out and it works, then I usually go with it. It's not just being stuck to one, whatever the script might say, you know, I'm open to once the actors get there, and they play it out. Sometimes it works. Dark, sometimes it works funny, sometimes, you know, you kind of see how it rolls, and I'm open to, you know, creatively kind of going whichever works best for me.
Yeah, this seems to be your highest rated movie on IMDb for whatever that's worth like. So it seems like it's getting good. Well, you know, like, they're not real kind of the trauma films and stuff, but Sure, sure, but this this one is a little bit. I feel like it's like, is this your best film you feel like, Oh,
it's right up there. You know, I really, you know, had a great time doing it and everyone was a blast to work with. And, you know, it's all I can really they're all different and you know, sometimes one hits with an audience one times they don't they you know, the thing is, is many people see it as the always the greatest thing and you'll always get someone who calling it the worst film ever made, or someone will say it's
the best film ever made. So you know, it's, you take it all with a grain of salt.
You feel like you're you get better as a filmmaker, the more movies that you make,
oh, yeah, you know, you learn from your mistakes and you learn, you know, but you know, sometimes, you know, a story clicks and you know, an
actor is right for it. You know, sometimes you make these things and you everyone's great except that one guy or that, you know, there's something in it that's off and it's not firing on all cylinders, whereas, you know, pig killer kind of clicked, you know, all the way through, you know, from filming to editing to you know, as we're talking now, so It's one of those things that I think has probably the best also marketability with the
whole True Story angle. And you know that his crimes were so you know, bizarre, it really helps the marketing and it helps, you know, and the distributor so far is doing a great job of really, you know, setting up these interviews and getting it into theaters and, you know, putting out, you know, the best version of it possible. So it's exciting. Yeah,
how will you distribute it? So you said theaters will be on streaming, and if so, which streaming? Yeah,
it opens up theatrically on the 17th at select theaters, and then it plays, streaming on the 21st. Everywhere. And then blu ray and DVD from vinegar syndrome on December 26.
So when the streaming, you'd have to pay for it, but it's not like going to be like free on Netflix, or Hulu or whatever.
Um, I think they try to do the Netflix and Hulu deals, all that stuff has become so you know, they're making their own crap. So they don't really pick up that many independent stuff. But if they do, you know, they, the distributor tries to get it on there, but it'll eventually hit to be in whatever after it does its initial run on the pay for or streamings.
Okay, yeah, cuz like, I think Amazon Prime, I think they're more open, they have a lot of more indie movies and stuff like that. Yeah.
And they pay like a penny and ours is that really, when the sag idiots run about whine about their stupid strike and all this crap, you know, know that the filmmaker makes this stuff, and they, you know, bust their ass, and the actors do as well. And then it gets out there. But you know, Amazon or these things only pay you such a fraction of money. So residuals, you know, trickled down to me to, you know, a couple cents here. So when you cut that up,
it's even less to an actor. So it's hard to point fingers at, you know, things, but I would say, you know, Amazon is really one of the worst, you know,
when it really, that's interesting, because they have the most money I thought I would think or they have a lot. I mean, that's how they have it, I guess. Well, his wife has like half of it now. Well, that's it. So it's like, it's better to get a producer credit. Yeah, you helped produce this one too, then I'm assuming Yeah,
no, I, you know, it's me and Robert Miano, and Robert Ryan, and Jeff Olin and Kate and you know, we kind of all pull in the split up the producing duties and do it, but you know, I usually sell my films. So I work as a sales
agent as well. So I brokered the deals with a distributor and all that kind of stuff, you know, after so many of years of doing this, and you know, learning from trauma, the rights and wrongs of deal making, it helped me kind of be able to make some really nice deals on these films, and at least get it out there, get it seen and have some money coming in to pay the people who worked on it. So
what are you what have you learned, if you could share that with me? If somebody wants to make a movie, what are some mistakes that they should?
Well, the mistake, a lot of people think, you know, they get the sales agents to sell their films abroad, and to try to get them to deal with, you know, us distributors, and whatnot. And these guys usually take you know, 25%. And then they also charge like a 50,020 $5,000 fee, to take it to, you know, Ken, and to AFM and to do all this stuff, when you really don't need to go that route, you can do it yourself.
And you know, find a distributor and see if they like it, and if they like it, you know, broker a deal not only for the US, but also for foreign so they're doing the foreign sales, and you have a non exclusive on the
foreign. So if they're doing a shitty job selling it to all these different countries at AFM, and you're able to say, Okay, I'm gonna go find someone else to do that, or I'm going to do that myself, I, you know, there's a great company in Germany, I'll call them up and say, Hey, do you want to take a look at the film, we'd love to film, we'll give you this much. So you're able to kind of bypass a middleman, save a 25% cut and kind of, you know, do it
yourself. But you know, the devil is in the details with these contracts, because a lot of them have so many little hidden things of you know, they charge a fee for this or this and this. So it's just really kind of after you've making enough films and looking at so many different contracts, that you're able to kind of and knowing what you can get taken out. And what they're bendable on, as far as terms is really the key of getting a good deal.
No matter how good the distributor is, if your deal is shit, you know, it's not going to get anywhere, but if you have a good deal, and they put a modicum of effort in releasing it, you're going to do okay. Yeah,
I think I heard you talking about like, for most of your films, you convinced the producers to sign on and that they usually at least make their money back and hopefully more and then especially as time goes on the there's royalty credits, right? Yeah. And
if you you know, if you keep the budgets low, you know, under you know, 200 you're usually you're okay, going over $200,000 You better have a name that's marketable overseas and all this stuff. Because it's just this day and age. It's hard to make that back. Yeah. So
what is your goal? Do you have another project already lined up after this one? Yeah,
we're shooting another HP Lovecraft I'm beyond the wall of sleep in December with Eddie Furlong by laying Jake Busey. Robert pianos Susan Griever you know, Ginger Lynn
Eddie Furlong? Okay. I was a big fan of his Terminator two. That was
always great American History X is Yeah. To even
pecker with packers. Great, too. Yeah, he's done some great. Yeah, he kind of disappeared for a while. So he's doing okay, then, ya know, he's
doing great. And, you know, he's deleted the film. And you know, it should be fun. Okay,
awesome. Well, I have to come back and promote that when it comes out. For sure. All right. Well, thanks so much for doing this. And we'll get this out soon. And people should movie comes out again. That's 17 You said theaters
17 theaters and then 21st. Streaming and then December 26. Blu ray.
Awesome. Thanks so much.
Right. Thank you. All right. Bye. Bye.
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