Heavy stars, rock and rolling through the cool guitars shops got the questions digging so sharp, feeling back, layers hitting the heart.
Yeah. The Rankin and bass. Those are the best. Those are our holiday favorites. So, I mean, but my favorite one is probably the second one. Santa Claus is coming to town, but they're all, they're all pretty good. And then they've got some crazy it's always fun to, like, try to find the because I'm much older than you, because I would see them when they originally came out, except for Rudolph, which slightly predates me. But then the rest
all came out of my lifetime. But they have like, Easter Bunny ones, and then they've got some they've got two really crazy Halloween ones that are super fun.
Oh, that's cool. I love the what is it? Robot Chicken. I had the eyes on there that he's got some new show. It's like an Easter Bunny thing. But, yeah, that show. Have you seen that? Because that's like, that claymation, but it's like a, oh yeah,
no, of course. Because it was like, people always want to emulate it, because it was, it was kind of magical that they were able to do it. And it's still, there's still the songs are fantastic. And they got all these amazing film you got all these amazing character actors, but then you also have, you'll have Fred Astaire do the narrator. You'll have in Mickey Rooney. So you've got all these great people from the Golden Age, Gene Kelly. You have these amazing people do the voices and play sort of
characters on it. But then the stop motion animation is pretty magical, and I can only imagine how painstaking they turn those things out. They were able to do a bunch of them and and the just the design, and, yeah, it still holds up. But they're scary. There's, there's some scary moments, because also when we had to watch them, when I was a kid, that was a back in the day before VCRs and all that. So it was all appointment television.
So you knew when Rudolph was on, and you knew when Santa Claus was coming. And you sat there at 830 and you watched it, and then the commercial breaks were really scary, like the winter Warlock, who was Ed because he was keen. And when Edwin's kid the Cowardly Lion, and he was, No, that's different. That's the other one. But he was, he was amazing, so, but he's very scary winter. And then he come back and he they warmed his heart. And he got his first Christmas present, and we sing all the
songs. And then, of course, you gotta love heat miser and and cold miser from the a year without a Santa Claus. If you need, you know, I know we weren't signing up to do the rank and bass history tour. I need to
go back and watch those. Yeah? Because I just, I don't know if I've seen a full episode, I've definitely seen the clips and stuff, and the spoofs and all right,
you have kids? No, oh yeah. Well, that's if
I have kids. I want to go through and watch all this. I've missed so many kids I've never seen what's the one that everyone the do you want to build a snowman? I don't. I've never seen that movie Frozen. Oh, everyone talks about it. I'm like, I've never seen
it. But do you? Do you watch all the Pixar movies,
hit or miss? Yeah. I mean, I, I've seen, I think I've seen all the toy stories. Those are brilliant. In fact, those are the best three. Yeah, even Quentin Tarantino, which is, like, not the thing to go to bat for that. She said, this is the movie of the year.
Oh, no, there. I mean, Joss Whedon wrote the first one. He wrote Toy Story. Like, okay, yeah. Like, so in his in the world of things, he's written alien movies and all of his series, he also wrote Toy Story. Toy Story is magical. And those performance because the Pixar thing, especially in the old days, and when you know Toy Story was, I guess, really, the thing that put every put them on
the map. But they had this sort of company edict that they wouldn't make the movie until the script was there until the story was there, which is so important. So those stories, they're flawless. The scripts are flawless. And then that's and that's really true of any good piece of art. You know, the old adage that we say all the time, it's not on the page, it's not on the stage, and you need, you need that. You need the script to be tight and ready to
go. And those things were so good, and so many great vocal performances. And, yeah, I mean, all the toy stories are magnificent, yeah, I
had a buddy in high school, and he was like, really into Disney and animation, right? So good. And he told me, he's like, You got to go see Toy Story. And I was like, Toy Story, that's like, a kids movie. I'm like, 17, you know? And I'm like, All right, I guess I'll take my little brother to go. And we were both like, wow, this is really good. Like, we did not expect it absolutely,
because I think the best kids entertainment is works for all ages. So yeah, things hit you on different levels, because that's the story there. So as a child, you can just enjoy the things that are the bells and whistles and the shiny things that are going to capture your young attention. But yeah, the real the classics, are good for all ages, and
they're good for all time. But I think that's the mark of any great piece of art, is that it's not just interesting when it comes out, but that you can watch it 10 years later, and watch it 20 years later, and it still has an impact, and that impact will be different every time you watch it.
Yeah, that's true. And then some stuff you see when you're a kid, and you're like, This is the greatest movie ever, and then you try to shoot. Out to somebody, and they're like, I don't get this. Like, why do you think? But I don't know. It's different meanings for different people. I think it's different if you saw it when you were a kid, like a lot of those 80s movies, like the show my girlfriend Goonies, and I was like, I don't know if she really appreciate the way I did as a kid. No,
it's so that's so perfectly put because some of them just resonated because where you were hormonally or developmentally, and that movie hit you another way. And then some of those movies are great for all time. We used to my wife and I would go through that. We would show her our daughter all the movies from the 70s and the 80s that we love, yeah? And you'd see what held up. Tootsie holds up like, Tootsie is always
a great movie, right? And then some of the other movies that I loved, you're like, Oh yeah, it's a little dated. It doesn't really hold up. And it's fun dated. Well, I mean, there's, I mean, so many movies, but I mean, if you're talking about, like, 80s movies that everyone saw that, you know, obviously Back to the Future totally holds up. A solid movie, that's a solid movie, but it's interesting, and the Scorsese
movies all hold up. And my favorite movie of all time is Dog Day Afternoon, Pacino and Charles Durning. And it's just, it's, it's spectacular, and that holds up. But it's funny, what some of them, there's a bunch that don't hold up. And certainly a lot of movies from the 90s don't hold up, but maybe they will. They'll come around again. But, I mean, I mean, I think that's the mark of great art. That's what I was thinking
about. We just had Oscar season, and I'm, I'm always intrigued and drawn to the movies that I go, Oh, I'm going to watch that movie again in 10 years, and I'm going to watch that movie in 20 years. Like Sean Baker, you know, the onora winning Best Picture, that was amazing, because that guy's a filmmaker. I want to
get your take on that, because I, I was actually, we were in LA for the Oscars. We got closes the fence, you know, to looking, but we can, we saw the red carpet and stuff. We saw people getting out. I think they were just like, you know, no offense. Like they were kind of no name, people getting out of the because I think the real stars went through some secret
entrance. But of course, we're talking to this bartender, and he was saying at this point, we're just, we'd watch a lot of on TV, and then we're like, you know, checking in on know, checking in on our phones, and we said, oh and Nora won. He was like, Oh yes, I love that movie. Like, wow, this thing must be really good. So I watched it. I didn't get it. I didn't think it was terrible, but I was like, this is the best picture. I didn't understand. So explain it to me. Why is it so good? Okay,
so esthetically, my favorite, I'll go backwards on this. My favorite period of filmmaking were the films of the 70s, right? So those you got Sydney, Lumet and Martin Scorsese, and bringing in this new esthetic of where you could tell a story that it looked it seemed like real life. You had these actors who were given very believable performances. But it also could be funny and be real, but it had all the colors of human life. It just wasn't just black and white, just wasn't one
note, one level. And Nora has all of that you don't know what it is you think, you think you know this. That's what I love about it. It's, first of all, he's just an amazing filmmaker. I don't know if you had the chance to see any of his other films, but
it reminded me What else did
he direct? So the one that just, my gosh, it's going to come to me. Yeah, he had a great movie that just came out two years ago before this. And then he did the tangerine the movie shot completely on an iPhone, which is spectacular. Oh, the Florida project, of course. And then, oh, red rocket. So I think it's called Red Rocket, and that's an
amazing movie. Just incredible performances, the mixture of actors and non actors and stories that you don't know where it's going to go and you haven't seen before, and very original filmmaking. I mean, he's a master with and he does everything right. He edits, he films, he directs, he casts them. And the casts are always spectacular. All the actors are
flawless. And what I love about a Nora is when you show up, you're used to the movie trope, and you go, Oh, it's she's gonna meet a prince, and her life, she's gonna live happily ever after, and then the movie goes in a completely different direction. And this character, who seems like sort of an ancillary side character, ends up being sort of the hero, you know, and just a really special guy and all these deep layers, but you can just see, you believe it's happening, but you
don't know where it's going. And that's what I'm always looking for in a movie, is to be surprised and to not know what's happening, and to have and also for something real, some truth to be illuminated. It's interesting, not interesting. But I mean, just I read a lot, and it's very different when I pick up, like, say, a Steinbeck novel, or if I pick up Hemingway or Kurt Vonnegut, or whatever it is, the second you pick it up, you know you're in good hands,
and you don't. And it's funny talking about going back, I have Hemingway novels that I read, or Vonnegut novels that I read every five to 10 years, and I read it over, and it's like, as if I've never read it before, because it's so it transcends sort of time, and it reflects where you are in your current life. You have a different reaction to it. But I can pick up a airport novel, which is basically just watching an episode of just regular network television, and you read it,
you're like, Yeah, I enjoy. I went on a ride. It was a story, but I didn't learn anything. Um. Hmm, and I probably I would never return to it again. So I think with something like Nora, this is a movie that I'll enjoy 10 years from now, 20 years from now, I think it will stand the test of time. It won't seem dated, you know, because the year before, we had anatomy of a fall, the French film, and then we had a zone of interest, the movie about the family, yeah, I saw both those and they were
amazing. In both those movies, you're just like, I'm glad they're doing well, because you're gonna, you're gonna watch those movies forever. But they're, they're and, I mean, zone of interest is so fast. I mean Jonathan Glazer, I mean that talk about a filmmaker. I mean that guy prepares for seven years to make that movie, right?
And what's so cool about zone of interest is they figured out a way to put cameras in the walls so there was no crew, there was nothing so the actors could just move from room to room and just live for 10 minutes or 20 minutes and and he just gave them the most sort of basic
outline of what to do. I mean, as an actor, that's exciting, because you go, I would love to be part of a process like that, and then as an audience member, it just creates an intimacy, a realism that and also you don't know where that story is going, and it's a very original voice and a very original way to tell that story. So that's what I'm looking for as an audience member. And sometimes, you know, I'm fortunate enough to be on projects that where the scripts there and the cast is there.
Drop is one of those. The show, the movie I've got coming out next week is one of those where it was just meant to be and the cast is spectacular. In the script, I didn't know where it was going to go, and it's a fun and exciting ride. So you
say about that I saw, because there's two trailers. The first one, yeah, I don't think they show you, and then the second one, they show you as, like, one of the suspects. Because what it says the guy says to the girl is, he says, You can't send the you can't AirDrop something unless you're within 50 feet. So it's got someone in this restaurant. Then it shows your face, and like, two other people, they're like, somebody's a bad guy here. So, well,
there's a lot of people in the restaurant. It's a really, really well constructed thriller. And the script was great. And then Chris Landon, who directed it, is also an amazing writer, so all of his tweaks just upped and, you know, raised rose the stakes rose with each iteration. Because sometimes when you get the next, when you get the blue pages, the pink pages, the different, you know, additions of script rewrites, sometimes it can go gets worse and worse and worse.
So it's always nice to be able to get better and better and better and tighter and tighter. And he had such a strong vision. And what's so cool about talking about process and how we shot it, they built a whole restaurant. So they built really, so, so we shot the movie. Oh, so it's, it was an it was a dream come true. So the movie, they built the one of the most amazing sets I've ever been in. So a real, practical
restaurant. They built it a story and a half off the ground in a in a stage in in Ireland. So everything's real. All the lighting is practical. Everything works. The meals are happening. So we were there for six weeks or whatever, in shooting the all the stuff that occurred in the dining room, and we shoot it all sequentially, which is amazing too, which almost never happens. So we just go from page one of the script to the end of the script, and we
shoot it in there. And so everything is so well coordinated. People, you know, some people are on their appetizers, some people are having dessert. The food is all real. The food is amazing. Brandon sclennar, the male lead of the movie, who's delightful, and he, he actually had the guy, he took some of those stakes home because they were so good and but it was,
what happens to that set after the like, what do they do with that? Well,
it's interesting because some sets, it's so beautiful, right? I They sometimes store them and they hold on to them in case there's a sequel. But I don't imagine they'll need that restaurant set again. I don't know you could literally build a restaurant. I mean, it was and all the lights were practical, all the tables
real. Everything was real. It, which is also really fun as an actor, because, you know, in this age of green screen or blue screen, and all of the superhero Marvel movies where you're acting to a piece of tape, it's really nice to have the less I have to make up in my imagination, the more fun and the easier it is to do my job, the easier it is to be in that space and to really believe it's happening.
So when she falls out the window, is that a green screen, or is that just a set of like that, like that looks like buildings and stuff? Or how do they do that? Because
that's true. Well, yeah, I mean, I don't want to give away too much. I mean, I know it's in the trailer, but it's, it's all real. Everything's, they have lights there have lights out there, and which is nice too, because it's interesting. I was very fortunate that my first movie was this movie called Memphis Belle, about a B 17 bomber crew in the Second World War. And so that we shot that in 1989 and that was before any of these effects. So we literally, we
went to England. They got five real functioning B seventeens that were still flying. So they got two from England, one from the United States. Two from France. I think it was they were going and so when we did the aerial fight, combat fights, I literally went up one day in, in a b 17, in my position, the top tour, and they had German messerschmitts, real German messerschmitts flying in, and I'm firing blanks at them. And
so you're really doing it. And then even on, like, when the planes crash, they built, like 1/8 scale models that could fly. So we were at this air base, this Royal Air Force Base, in the north of England, in Lincolnshire. And so they're literally, so that's sort of that forced perspective, like they used to do in the old movie. So we have our plane, big plane, and then you just put a smaller plane that can actually fly just a little bit behind you, but it looks like it's a
lot more behind you. And you can't tell you can't tell the difference. It's funny. We were just flying here to California for the premiere, and we were on Air Canada, and they had Memphis Belle on the plane, and my wife went ahead and watched it, and I was just dazzled, because I remember everything about it, because it was my first film. So every moment is etched forever
in my soul. And that's not always the case with all the jobs you do, but it was so cool to see how all of the effects, because they're not effects hold up. It looks real and it has, it has a tactile realism to it that just affects you in a different way. Because when I see CGI, it's amazing what they can do these days. But when it looks like a cartoon, sometimes that takes you out of, and this doesn't, and we did this really cool thing. And it wasn't my idea. The director had this
brilliant idea. They built a whole B 17 bomber on a stage, Pinewood Studios, the James Bond Studios in London, or outside of London, and so that the
dimensions were real. And it was inspired, obviously, by Doc's boot, where they really, you know, had the dimensions of being in a submarine, because prior to that, anytime you'd seen someone filmed in an airplane, there's all this weird room where the camera can be, and he just made it so that you had that claustrophobia that you would feel in those planes, because they're very they're basically, it's 10 guys in there just defending bombs. That's all
your job is. And the the skin of those things is so thin it's not going to stop a bullet. And so then the camera had to find ways to get it so you felt though that scale, and it really works, and it really holds up. So with drop, having everything real and having a real outside you, there's no way when you were there that you didn't think you were in a restaurant, and on all the patrons were so they were just delightful. All of the
Irish crew was amazing. And so it was sort of a dream come true, and it came about in such a magical way. Last year was the 20, my 20th wedding anniversary, and my wife and I both got married. Well, we both were we got married together. We got married in Ireland 20 years ago last year, and so we were planning on going and and the way this job came about was so magical for me, because on a Monday morning I called my
manager. I've just come off doing a TV show playing my sort of stock horrible, white businessman murderer, serial killer, basically, where I play like, I always play like, some sort of iteration of Jeffrey Epstein or Bernie Madoff, right? This is that's been the last I was
just watching, uh, I was like, I gotta watch something he's done. So I watched you in the purge. And I was like, that's that it is. Again, like this rich billionaire, evil guy, like a millionaire, I don't know, lovable
douche bag, whatever it is, but always like doing a Ponzi scheme or just and then I meet, I either create someone's horrible end, or meet a horrible end. And I just call, I just come off playing just another Jeffrey Epstein, and I said to my I call my manager and I go, I gotta play something else, you know? I i There's, I'd like to play somebody like me, maybe not someone cool, maybe someone slow, because I was playing like guys in Hugo Boss suits or decks, right? And,
and that's not like you, though, if you listen to interviews and stuff like you're not like that at all, and we know
each other. We've done this before and Exactly. And I was like, I'd love to play someone more like me, someone vulnerable, just a regular guy where I don't have to worry about, you know, being all slick and looking good. And that was a Monday morning on, I think by that afternoon, she presented me with this character in drop, who's just this schlubby, and they weren't even going to see me because he's this sort of a shlubby, frumpy guy and sad sack. And I go, this is perfect.
This is exactly what I want to do. I had the job and then, but then I go, it's shooting in Ireland. I'm never going to get it, and it's starring Megan Fahey. And funny thing about this, there's only three actors in my life that I've ever seen in something. And I go, I have to work with them. And I've worked with all three of them. The first one was Malcolm McDowell. I remember seeing Malcolm McDowell in A Clockwork Orange, and I was like, I have
to work with him. And all these years later, I work, I do four seasons of Franklin and bash with him. And the highlight of that show is just getting to spend every day with Malcolm and hearing stories. And then the other one was Kevin mckid, when I saw him in Rome and and I was like, I have to play his brother. And my wife's like, you have to play his brother. And two years later, we played brothers on an NBC show called
Journey man. And I haven't had, there's lots of actors I want to work with, but there's not one where I go, I have to work with them. And I saw Megan in the second season of white lotus, and I go, there was something about I was like, I have to work with her. It's just, there's something she's I just want to work with her. So I get this audition where it's shooting in Ireland. So this would be my the year of my 20th wedding anniversary. So I get a trip to Ireland, and it's starring Megan
Fahey. I was like, and it's this shluppy character where they're just, I don't, they didn't really see me, and they're like, he can put himself on tape if he wants to. And I had the job three days later, and so, and it never did you enough audition I did, no, I had to put myself on tape, because they were like, he can put himself on tape, but we don't see him as this. He's not this shlubby guy. And I just wanted to do it and and they
liked it. And three days later, we were all set, and I'm in a movie with Megan Fahey, and we're going to shoot it in Ireland. So I got to bring the whole family over for two months, and we got to go back to the place where we got married in the west of Ireland, and same family runs it, and stayed there for a while, and it was great.
So it was a, it was a, it was a magical mitzvah, that it all came together and on and on a movie where I was just so excited, and everyone was fantastic, and the Irish crews were through the roof, because it's one of those. I mean, the Irish I love. Obviously, I got married there. I've spent a lot of time there. I really love Ireland, and I love the Irish, and it was so lovely to work with such an amazing crew, where everyone on the crew had read the script, and so they're
invested in it. And it's just and we, we shot in a very civilized manner. We shot the French hours. So you just come in at a reasonable time in the morning, and you leave at a reasonable time every day. And because Chris was such an amazing director and and we were ahead of schedule, I think we finished a week early, which is unheard I've never been on anything that's done. Why was
it filmed in Ireland? Because it doesn't take place there. It takes place in America, right? Yeah,
it's, well, Ireland's a big I mean, obviously this is, you know, something that's getting dealt with right now. But, I mean, Ireland is just so much stuff gets shot there. They have amazing studios. They've got amazing crews, and it's cheaper, really, to bring your cast over and shoot it there right now, with the with the tax benefits,
is the reason. I mean, my wife has a huge career up in in Toronto, in Canada, there's a reason half your shows are shot in Canada, since it's tax breaks, you can get local actors, British actors, you can get people in there a lot cheaper. And, yeah, that's, I mean, I just saw Rob Lowe talk about it on a podcast with Adam Scott. They were saying, he said, It's cheaper to shoot a whole show in Ireland and then to get your crew to walk across the fox lot at this point. Wow.
And I think, I think that's going to change, I mean, and I hope it changes, because I really, I love, I love working in Los Angeles, love working in Hollywood, I love working in the States. And I certainly think, like, that's a lot of that's come back, but it just they priced it out. I mean, the message, yeah, I always wondered,
because I'm in Arizona, right? I know there's a bunch of stuff going on in New Mexico. Oh, you shot better, which we can now. We can talk about couldn't last time because you hadn't done it, but, oh, that's so funny. Why are they bypassing us to go one state over? Like, somebody needs to give the tax breaks in Arizona. But I think maybe there's people that are like, we have enough tourists here. Like we don't need more. Yeah, I
think you have to see if it's worth it. I mean, yeah, the New Mexico thing is unbelievable. Netflix built these insane studios on the top of a mesa out there, and you can see it from a distance. Xanadu up there. It's just on these Mesa, and it's those, the most beautiful studios I've ever seen. Well, the tax breaks have just have changed the business.
I mean, for a decade, I think I shot everything in New Orleans because Louisiana, or in Louisiana because they had given these crazy tax breaks, and they still have them, but it'd be hilarious because, because I always play these rich douche bags. And so you shoot, I've only shot in New Orleans once, for it to be New Orleans. And have you been to New Orleans?
Yeah, one time, it was amazing. It was so cool. I want to go back. It's so
cool. But the thing about New Orleans is New Orleans looks like New Orleans. It doesn't look like anywhere else in the world. So it doesn't and I've gone there a couple of times to play like a guy who lives in Beverly Hills, and so I have literally, on four shows, had the exact same house, because it's the only house there that looks like and then somebody I just walked in, like, I know where everything is. I'm not all go downstairs, just up there. I'll be hanging out in
the pool room. So, but it so the tax credits are, I mean, interesting, and that's what I mean with Marvel. Everything's in Georgia.
Yeah, it is interesting when you talk about the same house, because I reckon I love there. I have a friend who who's really into this, but I love it too. I'm kind of an amateur going to filming locations. And, yeah, start recognizing in commercials even you'll be like, wait a minute, I've seen that. There's a record. I forget what it's called, but I went there. It's like, 45 minutes outside of LA and they so much stuff there.
And you can go there, and you'll, like, you'll and then you see the commercial or show, you're like, Oh, I recognize that place. There's a lot of things like that,
yeah, what was the restaurant? I'm
trying to, I'm trying to, I don't remember the the name, but I think, God, they've shot in so much stuff there. And then there's another one that's like, it's like, a hotel, gas station, restaurant. And I think I want to say was it, was it Jim Cummings that just did his, uh, one of his movies there. It's in so many things. We drove up there, and there's actually a security guard like, protect, of course, if so many of these Instagram people that want to, you know,
document and stuff. I mean, people are getting really into that stuff, because it is really cool to see the stuff in real life. I mean, even the Statue of Liberty, like, the first time I saw that, it was surreal, because I'm like, I've seen this in so many movies and TV shows and like, and then it's like, it was actually bigger than I thought. For some reason,
the Statue of Liberty, yeah, yeah, yeah, you can climb up inside it, correcting the tie. I know,
I think you have to book it, like, a month in advance. I didn't. I wasn't smart enough to do that. But next time, yeah, it's spectacular,
and it's also just fun. Did you go out there? Did you go out to Liberty Island?
Yeah, yeah, went out to the island. Got up to, like, the base of it, I think. But then if you want to go inside, you have to book it. And then if you want to go up to the I don't even think they allow you to go up to the head the torch or whatever anymore. They used to, but now it's you can't do that or something. Yeah, we
were just there, my daughter and I went up there. I don't think we got into the torch because they were redoing were redoing it, but it's amazing because I saw there when I was a kid in this you lived in New York, right? I grew up there I was. I lived in, I lived in Manhattan, from zero to about 24 and when I went there in the 70s, it was, it had not been maintained. And what it was, it was terrifying. So you've got the outer shell of of Lady Liberty, but inside, it's just
empty. And they had these weird sort of like wrought iron spiral staircases, and you would just be exposed. And I remember and wide gaps, of course, like no, no, OSHA, no safety, no, you're not thinking about anything. And I remember being there as a kid, just terrified, because you thought you were going to fall through. And it's interesting going back, because now it's all been it's quite lovely to go to the top, and everything's safe.
And I saw one of the old spiral staircases, and I had a funny encounter with one of the Rangers, going, like, that's what it all was like, and it was absolutely terrifying. I just did not want to go to the top, but now it's quite user friendly, but it's such a beautiful you know, you just, you did the best part, though. I going inside the Statue of Liberty is awesome. But just getting that VISTA of Manhattan and lower Manhattan from the water, there's nothing like it.
And, yeah, I love, I love New York. I was only been there one time for like, five days, but we tried to do as much stuff as we could. Went to Central Park and, yeah, went on to the the big piano from the movie, big the toy store, whatever, like, all the touristy stuff. It was great. I loved it.
Oh, it's great. And it's, yeah, I mean, so many magical locations there, and just iconic, yeah, I love going back in Central Park. And it's nice too. It's always nice when, because I grew up in the in the bad old days where, you know, there was no grass in Central Park, and if, and you didn't want to be there after sundown, and I was many times, and bad things happen, but now it's so gorgeous, and Belvedere Lake and Belvedere Castle and everything's been it's just,
are they cleaning it back up again? Because I went, like, 10 or 15 years ago, and it was like it was fine, like we didn't have any trouble. Now I'm seeing things like people are saying, Oh, it's terrible again, the crime, the homelessness, the drug, whatever. I don't know if it's didn't feel bad.
I mean, it didn't, nothing will compare to the old days. But also the old days were magical, because that's also, as we, you know, going full circle back to the
punk scene. Was there and stuff. There was a lot of grit that was kind of neat, yeah,
because you could only have all of that great art that came out of that town. Oh, you know the punk scene, the New York punk scene, the art scene, the New York Film stuff, if the city, because, you know, guys could afford to have a Soho loft for $500 buy the whole thing, right? Things there's now where all this fancy shopping is in the meat packing district and all that you could just, artists could live there. Artists could live in New York. I mean, that was the thing that's changed.
And I don't know where we're going and where we're heading, but my dad's still in the building that I grew up in, and it was all just middle class. Just middle class and working class families could afford to live in that building, right? That's in that whole
neighborhood. We lived in a neighborhood, and so you it was like a small town you're building, and all kinds of people from all you know, from lower class, middle class, working class to upper class, obviously, could live in the city together, and that's
changed. But, yeah, that art scene, and it's so cool, that Criterion Collection this month, I think, is running like, one of their features is like New York when it was down, you know, the late 60s, in the early 70s, when it had gone bankrupt, and all the art that was made there and capturing that. And for me, that's still, that's still, because I think you always, you always see things the way you saw them as a child. So that's
still my image of New York. So it's always it's very foreign to me when I go there, and everything's clean and shiny and safe, and there's the High Line and beautiful and in a weird way, like texturally. I'm so glad I grew up there then, because it was, it was this. There was so much art and music and punk scene, CBGBs and all that, and all that, and all my favorite bands that came out of there. And also, this is also a pre internet thing, and also the Instagram ification of the world
has changed everything. But what was so cool still about the 70s and the early 80s was you could have scenes because things had to, you know, information had to transfer by word of mouth, or you'd glean something in a month. Magazine. So you could have a music scene in Minneapolis, and you could have a music scene in Chicago, and you could have a music scene in the Lower East Side of New York, and it took a while for them to
break. So people got really good and got their chops together before they broke internationally. Now, you know, I can, you can post something today on YouTube, and everyone, you know, billions, you know, billion people are going to see it. So it and things could be cool and get cool. And, you know, you could be that snob is like, cool. I remember them before they went big. I saw them at, you know, the gymnasium,
right, you know. And I did. I remember seeing REM, you know, because there was that whole Georgia music scene around the Athens scene. And I saw them in small, a small moon basketball gyms. And then, you know, suddenly they're playing arenas. And that's also because I know you're really into music, yeah,
and I grew up in Seattle in the 90s, and right, it's definitely a music scene that was going on, and
that's and I remember getting there. I remember getting there right before all of that stuff went down. And you're just going, like, Oh, you want to go see my friend's band. I'm like, I don't want to go see and I'm sure it was probably sound garden. And I'm like, I wish I'd gone right, because you
would have seen back then. I was like, Oh, I don't know. I'm not really that into him. Now. I go, God, I miss so many great shows. It's so stupid.
And my caveat now is only to go see shows in small venues. So small
venues shows, those are the best well, because it's because what am I have side stage. Like, I my buddy. He's he plays guitar with Brett Michaels. He's like, Yeah, and so I get to watch side stage. And I'm like, D Snyder came up and he's right there. I'm like, wow, this is cool. Like, if you either have that or small venue, I don't want to be in the nosebleeds in an arena, that's, I'd rather just stay home and watch it on YouTube. I
saw the pictures of you at Brett Michaels with D Snyder. I was very jealous, by the way, yeah, come on, man. I have never, I've never had the good fortune for side stage, but I agree. Well, connections, I mean, we've, I've gotten good seats from, you know, every once in a while with a connection, but I've never done side stage. I'd like to do it, but because my caveat is, if I have to watch the screen to see the band. There's no point in going, Yeah, I know, you know,
it's like, when I I saw, I went and saw Paul McCartney. And I was like, okay, like, you know, this is Paul McCartney. I gotta pay for a good ticket. So we paid for, like, kind of, like, not, you know, first 20 rows, but I was maybe, like, 100 rows, but you're still, you're watching the screen. I was like, you know, I should have just paid for the nosebleed. What's I'm watching the screen? It's, what's it? Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. And it was also, it was funny too, talking about the old days. It was also, so, there's three, there's three. Three things that I want. First of all, if I go see a live show, I want it to be a live show. So I want, I want it to not be. I don't want to hear you do the album. And, you know,
just, do you just, I want it. I want something that happens here, this transference of energy between the band and the audience that is only happening that night, you know, because I remember, you know, no, there's the solo. Was never the same, right? I don't want the same canned banter. I want. And I want mistakes. I want craziness. I want I want the reason to be at a live show is something unique is happening singularly
that evening. I want that. I don't want to look at the big screen, and I also don't want to pay $1,000 I remember before, before everything got jacked up. I remember Van Halen were playing on the mean streets tour at the Garden in New York, because I saw all my first shows of the garden, and I got online, and I got great seats to see Van Halen for like, $16 right? $16 each, right, and, and you have to
camp out to get because that was the thing back in the days, like you wouldn't go online. You had to go to the box office, and sometimes the shows would sell out quick. So people would like camp out, or, you know, get there real early and it'd be a big, long line. Did you have to do that to get the tickets? I
think we got there before it opened, but we weren't there overnight, and we still had decent seats. And, you know, we weren't going to be able to get the best seats, but like, 13 to $16 got you a really good season Van Halen show. So, and that's the thing like, because there's no way, if I pay, which I wouldn't do, but I've had, I've had tickets gifted to me where it's $1,000 to see a band I'm like, There's no way they can be that good. There's no, there's no performance that's worth
Yeah, if I had a time machine, if I could see some of these bands in their prime for $1,000 yes, but yes, to see them not in their prime for 1000 bucks, I feel like that's, like, overpriced.
It's a lot. And now, you know, I mean, the Ticketmaster Live Nation, people are gonna come murder have me killed. But, and just like, I'm not feeling suicidal, anybody? No, it's just because it's like, the other thing too is now, you know, scalping was always illegal, but now they do this scalping thing. So I'll go on if I haven't bought tickets in time, and they're like, they have they resell them through
them. So say the ticket was originally $50 now someone is reselling it through Ticketmaster.
They're getting the fees every time. What's
going on here? But we've been really lucky, because there's a lot of great bands that have come through. And my my kid, there's a great punk rock movement coming out. I've been coming out for a few years out of Australia, and I took, yeah, do you know the band ammo and the sniffers? No? Oh, there was a great and that was talking about, in the old days, there was a great punk movement that came out in the 70s there, because that's my favorite, you know, one of my favorite periods
of music. And the one that most formed me was like mid 70s punk. So this great UK scene, there's the New York scene, Australia had this amazing scene, these great bands, and they've got a new one. And it's interesting, because punk, it needed enough time, because the sort of Orange County punk rock that I didn't like of the 90s was just like, well, you guys are, you need to, it's a working class music. You need to be angry about something. And all you guys seem
to be doing pretty well. And now, you know,
okay, yeah, that's, that's a good way to play. You need,
you need a righteous anger. You know, I want that in my in my bands, but the ambulance sniffers and the chats, but it was great. So it where we were. We were up in Toronto at the time, and my kid was probably 14, and there were no all ages shows, but they were playing in Detroit. And I was like, we can drive to Detroit,
it's four hours. And so we went and we saw it at this old, great venue in, you know, 1000s of great bands that played there, and it's just it was so good for her first show, standing the whole time, you know, the band is 20 feet from you, and you're just having that experience. And it's just fun. So I like to see that. I got to see Peter Hook because Joy Division, new to New Order, one of my most favorite bands, and he played a small
venue in Toronto. But I couldn't bring my kid, but that was great, because you're there, you're having this transference of energy, and that's, that's what I go to a show for, and personally, but
no, I agree. I'm the same. I think I'm just pickier too, and like, the older you get, for me, it's like, it's hard to stand for, like, a long period of time too. I like casino shows are the best, yeah? Like, get in, get out. They don't. I don't like when you go to the show and it's like, there's like, seven opening bands that you don't care about, and then you see your headliner, like, two in the morning. By that time, you're just like, you're ready to go to sleep. Yeah,
you got to time it out, right? Yeah, to know when they're going to go on, you got to go. But that's, that's the that is the beauty of the internet. You can find out, like, okay, at what time did they go on yesterday? Okay, I'll make sure. I'll get there then. Yeah,
no, absolutely. I love all that music stuff that's amazing. I'll have to check out this Australia punk scene that sounds fun.
Yeah, I mean aiming with sniffers that now. I mean, they're big, but they've they're great, and she's an amazing front person, but they've just got a killer energy, great songwriting, and they were amazing Live, which is, always, is the test. So, yeah, I mean, I love trying
to, like, find stuff before it gets too big. You know what? I mean? Like, I had on this comedian, and he, he opened for Jim Gaffigan. He's, like, he's like, one of the like, he's there, like, buddy. So he takes him out. It's real nice guy. And I was asking him, like, Hey, who's like, the next big comedian in New York? He's like, Well, there's this guy who does kind of some political stuff. His name's Tim Dillon. I was like, Oh, now that guy is huge. Of course, I was trying to
reach out. I think even back then, I was messaging him like, Hey, you want to do my podcast. Like he was, he was already too big, but now he's like, and there's a lot of people like that. But people will tell me, my buddy, he told me, he was telling me about this kid, this guitar player. He's like, Oh, I think this guy, he could be like, you know, the next Jerry Cantrell for Alice in Chains, like, he's really good, and all
this stuff. And he's been in a couple bands for a few years, and then now he just got, I don't know if it's going to be temporary or permanent, but he's in God smack. And I was like, I don't know if you know, got some x like, that's a huge metal band. This guy's guitar player now, so pretty cool. That's
really cool. Yeah. Do you know of any is there any people that you see in terms of the acting world that you're like, oh, this person is going to be the next big thing, because you probably see it working with these guys more so than the public.
Well, I don't even know if I can pick that. I think what's so cool is there's so many good actors out there right now, and the young actors are really great, especially now you because I've gone from being the youngest guy in the call sheet to often the oldest person there, which is always hilarious too, because now there's, there's some sort of implied wisdom that I have to offer. And
I'm treated. I'm treated. I'm treated with a degree of respect that I think I've only earned by just surviving and still being there and but it's worth something. It is worth something, and I love it because it's actors are so I've been so lucky me, like on this show, on drop, on this movie, everyone was just so lovely. And and we were there together, because we were there every day. So it was a really nice communal experience. And that's what I
love about it. I really love because the joy of it is you get to play pretend and play around with, like, really fun, cool, smart, hilarious people, and that's what this was. And so I mean all the younger, I mean in this one, I mean my god, I mean Megan is a star, and Brandon sclenar, he is
awesome. What else has he done?
Well, he's, he's in 1923 he's one. He's the lead of the Taylor Sheridan show 1923 Oh,
okay, that's a big show right now. Yeah, he's,
he's really good. And he is a throwback, like he is a hunky dude in sort of. A cut of, like, 70s hunky dudes. Like, he's a real man, man, and hilarious and funny, and he's got this, it's in his name, and Brando and Brandon. He's got this Brando esque swagger and humor. And he is, he's a singular dude. I really love him. So that was really fun. But, yeah, there's, I mean, there's so many good young actors out there, which is great, because you want it to go
on. And I've been really fortunate, too, because, I mean, I love acting, and I love working with actors, and yeah, but now by exactly by just surviving, I do have some wisdom to part to to impart. And like on this one, my number one thing I always do, which is really interesting, and it's just turned out to be a thing is, on the first day, I'll just say I'm a little nervous. No, you're
nervous. I'm like, Yeah, I'm always because no one wants to talk about how to nervous there, and everyone's nervous all the time. And because anything worth doing is worth doing well. And you're you're you care, you want to do a good job. And it's interesting, my wife has gone back to acting. She'd retired for about 13 years to raise our child and have our child, and she's been working all these great movies with Nick Cage and Richard Gere and these great directors and everything.
Yeah, the new M Night sholomon movie, yeah,
she's in exactly, oh, and night exactly, with Josh. They, they had the best time, but everyone's nervous. And the second you sort of take that, but just by even just throwing it out into the ether, it just calms everyone down, because you have to be, and that's, that's the fun of it, and so, but it's been, it's been
really exciting. So to work with people who love doing it, and that gives, always gives me hope, because there was a period where I was doing a lot of television in the early 2000s where a lot of people just showing up, not prepared, not interested in it. And I was like, Oh, I hope that's not what this turns out to be. But it's not. People are really, really good and and really committed
and a ton of fun. And because, because what happened was phones kind of ruined everything for a while, once we all got our iPhones. Because one of the best parts, you know, talking about Malcolm McDowell earlier, one of my favorite parts as a young actor, and still as an older actor, was when you're not shooting, when you're sitting around waiting to shoot, is that everyone tells their stories.
And because there's such great stories, and I've been so fortunate, fortunate to work with all these legendary actors, and they love to tell their stories, and I love to hear their stories, and then when the phone came around, everyone's playing, you know, Angry Birds for a while, and it just, it was
no fun. And now somehow, just sort of, I don't even bring my phone to set unless there's some, you know, there's emergency I'm worried about at home, because I'm I want to converse, and it's gone back to that. And it's really nice, because I'll never forget those stories. And the whole point is, what, you know, what's so great about what we do is you get to do it, as I said, with like, these really fun, funny, hilarious, smart people and great storytellers. I mean, all
I do is collect. I mean, Malcolm McDowell. I There were so many. One of my favorite days on Franklin and bash was John land
John Landis, yeah, I told you that they tell you so good. Yeah, exactly.
So John Landis, stories like this, dancers and I'm in the middle. It's crazy, right? And I just, I love that. And then, you know, eventually you have stories to tell, and they're fun to say and pass on to the younger generation. And I love that. I mean, I had a beer with Paul Newman because I'm in a movie with Joanne Woodward, and he's just telling all these stories about how he was terrible and everything, and self deprecating, hilarious stories,
yeah, and you said Clooney was self deprecating too, which is great. It's
the best are the best, the best people are self deprecating. And get
to that level then, because don't get to be confident and almost like, I guess, not arrogant though. I guess you got to know when to take yourself down a notch. I
think the greatest leaders, the greatest people and the greatest leaders are confident and but also, yeah, no arrogance. It's you have to. It's a that is a classic contradiction. Is you have to be confident, but not arrogant, and to be self effacing and open. It is, it is a quality in leadership that if you don't have it, you have to have an innately, you have to know it. You have to be a good person. And so you can be a good person and be driven and, and you'll
get the most out of everyone. I mean, you know, talking about George, I tell this story all the time. We're making good night and good luck, and anyone could come hang out at video village. You know, you could be the second craft service assistant, and he's like, What do you think? You think that was good and and so just by creating that, and it's not a tactic, it's authentic, because people always smell it out. You know,
that's always what I say. You know, you can pretend to be a good guy, but really be an asshole, and it will only go for so go so far, but if you're a good guy, it just comes through, and people will run through fire for you. And I think that's key. It's actually um, Kyle Secor and I have been doing a re watch podcast of Homicide Life on the Street. This, this, this iconic television show that we did
together in the 90s. And what was so interesting about that was it was a creative high point for all of us, but at the same time, it was profoundly traumatic, and everyone thought they were traumatized by the. Cells, because there were big personalities. There was a lot of conflict, and there were a lot of there were a lot of misbehaving, drug addicted, gun toting children there. And so it
got really intense. And so it's been really fun 30 years down the road to have everyone come on, all the people involved, to really sort of exercise it. Talk about how great it was. And then for them, you see the sort of the sigh of relief when they realized they weren't the only one. They thought, because everyone has a sort of thing. I wish I could do it over again. I would have done this, but that's
the way you learned it. And so there were some very there were some very difficult, bad apples, but it made for the best stories. And they are the best stories. You know, when you've got actors pulling guns and knives on each other and disappearing on drug binges for a week at a time, those are great old stories. And because that's also what I loved about this business and why I wanted to get into it's like, I love acting, I love it inside out, but I also love all of the
legendary stories. I mean, you talk about Arizona shooting in Monument Valley, and all the crate John Ford, and everyone being drunk and going off and those that's there's something about that, you know, and this, if enough time passes, they all become funny. And it's been great to sort of work through that on homicide and just tell these funny stories. And now they're all funny. No one's traumatized anymore, I don't think. And you
guys call people out by name, though, if it was they did some crazy things or,
well, we, we tried to be, I feel Kyle, and I tried to be as gentlemanly and discreet as possible. But people didn't pull any punches, and it was great. So we'd have, you know, an executive producer, talk about someone did something, and then we'd have that person on them talk about they did it. So it was. It was great. We didn't really it was. It was a wonderful conversation.
It was amazing to be with these very talented, creative people and and you didn't really have to pep you didn't have to pose any questions. People had a lot to get off their chest, and they would tell those stories, and they would name names. And we, we felt enough time had passed, and everyone had their day in court, so I don't it never came across as mean spirited, or it
was. They were all pretty hilarious and told with a lot of love, and also talk about self deprecation, a lot of people going like, yeah, I could have done that better and but it's funny, because talking about trying to be a good guy or a bad guy, when I got there, I was, you know, I was this young, eager actor who'd been in what I talk about is it only occurred to me about a year ago, because I was sort of, really the first actor to be brought on as a new detective, and they didn't know
that I'd been preparing for three years, or two years to be on that show. I saw the pilot episode while I was shooting my own pilot up in Vancouver, and go, I'm going to be on that show, and I've been preparing for three years to play a cop on TV, because I almost became a cop in LA and then all the cops I met, they all wanted to be actors. I'm like, I'm a really an actor. This is what I'm going
to do. But when I showed up, it only occurred to me a year ago that I was hired to be like the hunky guy, because they needed a hunky guy on the show, and I certainly, and I I did not see myself as a hunky guy. I saw myself as a serious actor, and I
was going to play this cop. So when what ended up having is this beautiful sort of arc of where they had one idea for him, and then I had an idea for who Maya Kellerman was, and then the two met and married and blossomed into this incredible character that I consider myself the great. I consider it was the greatest character I have had the good fortune to play, and I'm eternally grateful for him every day. But I was young and I was green when I got there, and there were some bad act I'm not
bad actors. They were very talented Thespians, but there was some very bad behavior, which I witnessed all around me. I mean, there would be times my favorite thing would be, we would shoot an episode, and the director would be there for the next episode, getting prepped, and they would always come up to me in the lunchroom, wherever, having lunch, because I seem like the kindest person. I seem like the most approachable. And the director would say to me, Hey, Reed, do you have any
advice? And I'm like, Yeah, I got some advice. I go when you're on set on Monday with that actor and that actor, don't tell them where to come from. Don't tell them what to do. First thing you want to say is, like, what do you guys want to do? And everything will be fine. Of course, they would never listen to me. We'd be there Monday morning, and the actor the director would go, all right, you enter from there, and you enter from there, and all
you'd hear is slam, slam. As two actors just stormed off the set and went to their trailers for the next three hours. So and, and, and it was great. And you just
these were people that were big names and felt like they couldn't be told what to do. Or it
was a combination of, well, the beauty of homicide, what made homicide so special is you had all these feature film directors. You had writers, you know, Paul nazio, incredible Academy Award winning screenwriter, write the pilot Tom Fontana, this amazing playwright and television
writer. And then you had movie actors, you had Ned Beatty, you had Jaffe Cotto, you had the and then back in what people, it's hard to remember, is in the 90s, you either did movies or you did television, and neither Twain would meet. But. Barry Levinson, the great Barry Levinson had created the show, and there was no interference from NBC, because he was one of those directors who was not only successful at the box office, but made great art. And so he
hired who he wanted to hire. But there were some big egos, and there were some there were many substance abuse issues, and there was a lot of weapons around. And so the stories were great. These
are real weapons. These aren't weapons, prop weapons for the show. Oh, I
before I got there, because, as I say, I'm a collector of stories, and I love stories, so I was just collecting homicide stories when I got there. Yeah, the first, I think they were only there two weeks before one of the actors pulled a knife on one of the producers, and I'm gonna, you're like, I'm gonna gut you.
That was no
no and it was a Cree, because these and these were creative arguments. So when people started off the stage, there were they? Were they? Well, there's two things. Some of them were fighting for the integrity of their characters, but also there was an ethos, a mythos at that time in acting that like difficult was a good way to be right. So difficult, got you thing, so I'm gonna fight for my character. And I saw I saw hilarious. I saw wonderful, bad behavior. Well, I
can tell this story. I told this story. Yafa Cotto one of my favorite actors of all time, a hero of mine as because I always grew up thinking I was a character actor and I wanted to be a character actor, and Yafa Cotto was impeachable. He was one of my he was my most favorite Bond villain. I loved him and across 110th Street, everything
I saw him in, he was amazing. I'm trying to think of the one that I know him from. Okay, keep telling
midnight. Run midnight. Run with Charles. Wasn't
he in a was he in a war movie or something? What am I thinking of? Because that, that's the first time I heard that. Oh, he's an alien, right?
Oh, yeah, of course, alien, yeah, Fauci, yeah. He's every he is. He's one of the Running Man.
Oh, that was a good Oh, right,
of course, the Running Man. That's like, my, like,
era, you know, the 80s. He's great
at all. Yavacoto is amazing in everything. He's such a great actor. But he what we did on this show on Homicide. What made it very unique is we shot it like a French New Wave film. So it was all handheld. There was no traditional coverage, meaning that you're not going to do a close up, close up, you know, over over. Master shot, the camera's just going to find you. So everyone had to be in the scene. And that
guy, he wanted his close up. And Yafa Kota was a genius, and I watched him, he had three great tricks he would either do. He would either if we were in this, if we were in the interrogation room, there was a little square window, and he would just walk to that window and deliver all of his lines through the glass, meaning the camera is going to have to come around and cover him from the other side, smart, really smart. Or he would do this thing where we're shooting
the scenes. He wouldn't know his lines, right? He wouldn't know his lines. So okay, we've shot everybody. I guess we're gonna have to come and do a single on you, a close up, because we'll just try to get all of your lines, and then he would be Word Perfect. So he was just no so you I saw all of these, these, these incredibly bad behaviors, but they were very effective, and for a while. So this is this long winded story to bring it around. I tried to be bad. I
tried to be a bad guy. I was like, Well, I'm gonna be tough. Going to be tough. I'm going to be a dick. But you can't be a dick if you're not a dick.
What are you trying to be a dick? That's I was just trying to
be like, well, and I mostly did it humorously. There was one day where these two actors who would always storm off, were just like, misbehaving. So as a joke, I stormed off. I walked off the set totally as a bit, and they were flabbergasted. Like, Reed never leaves. What's Reid doing? All right, I'm tired, if you guys throw it off, but,
uh, thing in Hollywood, people storm off, but they're not like, fired like, or they don't get like, you're not worried about like, you know, getting fired for doing that. Or, dude, I had
never seen anything like this in my life, but I'd only heard these stories. Heard these stories. Because what also made homicide so much fun is it sounded like old Hollywood where people behaved badly. And I think people were emulating that, where you hear the story of James Dean not coming out of his trailer for six hours, or taking a leak in front of the whole crew on the first day. You hear all these Brando, obviously, Brando famously just being
difficult. I mean, Brando had this famous trick that he would do with directors where say he's doing a Western. He would test them on the first day, say it's a Western. He'd go, the director, he goes, I think I should have Martian ears and maybe a lady's scarf for this scene. And if the director is like, get the hell out of here. Brando Marlon, you're just, you're gonna put your cowboy hat on. We're gonna do the scene. But if they go, Oh, that's a
good idea. He'd know that they were weak, and he would just mercilessly torture them for the rest of the shoot, you know, sort of a canary in the coal mine, kind of test. And so there were all these stories of legendary bad behavior. And I think people emulated, I remember that was that famous David Caruso, he, he when he got on Jade, when he got on his first was a freakin film, I think. And he heard that someone
said he had only call me sir. I can either be called Sir or Mr. Caruso, and no one can make eye contact with me, like, one of those dumb things. And you're like, and then the movie bombs, or does it? Well, that doesn't last, you know, but there's famous there's people who are like, Yeah, you can't make eye contact with him, and you have to call him Mr. Cruiser, sir. And they'd heard that, but it's a dick move. And like, I say,
like. Yeah, I've worked, when you work with Brad Pitt or George Clooney, those guys are the salt of the earth. I mean, I don't know if I told you this story the last time, but my I had this great scene with Brad Pitt in Moneyball. Yeah,
no, you said he was like, he would improvise with you and ask, he's amazing. And
he came in, he'd rewritten the scene, and so he shows up with his sides on the day we rehearse it. I'm like, Oh God, if an actor rewrites a scene, they're always giving themselves more to do. And he'd written me, like, four pages of extra dialog, and that's who these guys are, right? But the funny thing is, like, the good the good stories make fun stories, the good guys make fun stories, but the bad guys do make they're they're my favorite stories. Because, go ahead.
No, I was just gonna say, I gotta ask, did you ever work with Val Kilmer? Because he recently passed. Now, everyone's posts and stuff about how great of an actor he was, but I don't if you saw his documentary. Oh yeah. Really sad. Was heartbreaking. I mean, he has a brilliant actor, but they talk about that a little
bit. There's like some he had a reputation for being difficult to work with, but their defense to that was, well, he just really wanted to do a good job, and he wanted the art to be great, but I don't know, like, how was he an asshole about it, though? Like, I don't know. It's kind of interesting.
I mean, I have no firsthand experience with Val Kilmer, I but I saw that documentary, and I've always heard the stories because he was, he went to Juilliard about 10 years before I went there. So I heard stories from Juilliard. I heard stories from directors there. I think what's interesting, I'm basically just a giant mutt of a dog, right? So I'm just like, I just want to play, you know, I want to have a
good time. I want everyone to get along and and that's how I approach acting and art, and that's where it's, like, fun place. And in fact, that's how I how I remember acting was explained to me by my first theater director. He's like, look at a dog, if he's if he's focused on some he's fully focused on it. He's fully immersed in it. He's in the moment. And that's how I always think about it. So I'm not a strategist. I have, no, I'm not. I don't, don't play chess. I am
not. I can't think three moves ahead in anything. I just, what I love about acting is just being in the moment and being with cool people. But there's a lot of people who have amazing careers who are strategists and know how to play games, and know how to set you up and set you up and create a situation, because, and this goes back to the homicide story. I come from the school of all. We all rise together. I'm an improv guy. I'm
an improv comedian guy. So the number one thing in improv is make the other guy look good. And as I always say in improv, and when I taught it, and when I've done it, just like soccer, I give this soccer metaphor that an assist is better than a goal. When I watch a great soccer game, the guy who puts the ball where the guy needs, needs it to get it into the net, that's the that's the guy. I mean, the guy sets you up for success. That's
all. What it is so and I come from this spirit of, like, we're making a play together, and, you know, get your own props, and we're gonna take care of everyone. And so when I got to homicide, and it was a it was a chillier, it was a, well, it was all the knives were out. It was like being at the Court of Versailles, like everyone was trying to kill you, and everyone's trying to kill me, actively tried to kill me. No one was nice to me. No one
talked to me. And they were like, you're not gonna be here long. And they were active. And I go, but as a little young, exuberant, excited actor, I was like, Oh, this I would be if I was a fresh if I was the new guy in the squad. No one would give me the time of day. But I look at some actors. So then there's, so there's, there's one school of acting, like we all rise together, we're in this together ensemble. And then there's the other where it's like, the worse you are, the better I am. And
and I saw that. And then there was that behavior on Homicide, where they would try to actively mess you up so you weren't so good in the scene to make the telling
you're hurting thing.
It's very it's very interesting. And there are famous actors, a lot of them been canceled, who do it, who are legendary for it. And I won't, I won't name names, but I mean, but all I can say is I'm impressed. I'm very impressed by that level of thought and cunning, and because I often play those characters, I play very cunning, thoughtful, strategic characters. But yeah, that's not me. I'll never be able to be that. I admire them. I don't think it's a happy life.
I won't name names, but I was at dinner with an act of an actress who was about to play opposite, and we were having our dinner because we had to have a sort of, you know, a long, intimate relationship on camera. So usually you go out dinner and just get through the niceties. And I'm talking about my kid, my kids, like three or four at the time. I'm talking about my kid, how much love my kid, my kid she and she turns to me and she goes, my career is my baby, and it's okay. And I serious, and I
went, Wow, too. I was like, oh, oh. And it was funny, because that was the only show I'd been in since homicide, where it was really intense and chilly and the knives were out from day one. And. And her knives were out, and it was great, and I realized, but having that experience, and now living 20 years or 15 years since homicide, I was like, I can't
compete like this. You Yes, the person who thinks who knows their career is their baby, they are much more invested in all of the court politics and the courtier isms than I ever will.
And so you just come and do your job, and you hope for the best, and then you have an experience like drop, where everyone's great and it's super creative, and that's what keeps you going, because, you know, they're not always, they're not always going to be fun, but it's a great life and and the jobs, where everyone's there, and the scripts amazing, and you're working with people you love, and those are the that's the crack that keeps you coming back. Yeah.
So no, no firsthand experience with Mel Kilmer, just, just stories, because he, he has done. I mean, whether I don't know what he's like personally, I mean, again, I saw the documentary, but how much of that is acting himself? You know
that he's acting in there. So, I mean, just some of those roles that he had, though, like it was interesting, how somebody pointed out that he took a lot of supporting roles, but that he kind of stole the show, like Top Gun I get, I didn't realize he only had 10 minutes of screen
time in that Yeah. I mean, stealing the show is a great actor trick. I mean, yeah, he's really good. I mean, Andre Brower, who I did homicide with, who I was also at Juilliard with and he was an amazing actor, and he was also the most consummate scene stealer I had ever encountered. And that was always fun, too. On homicide catching, I would always try to try to catch how he was going to steal the scene from me, and then try to, which is great, because I like, I enjoy a prickly
environment. I'm it's great if we all get along, but if it's going to be Prickly, I'm down for that too, because that's fun, because it's, it's jaunty, and you're like, Okay, this is, it's got real stakes going on here. And we're,
how do you play defense to that? Or do you or just let him you got to play. It's no,
no, you got, it's the it's the play within the play. So that can create another especially with a good guy, like, now, Andre's a good guy now, he's trying to steal the scene. But like, it's coming from just a pure sort of sports, like athletic competitiveness, and would you like so you know, if you're you know, you want to play sports against someone equally good. It takes up your game. You want to box a guy who's good, right? So with him, it didn't come from a place of
malice. It just came like, he's like, I'm gonna bring my A plus game every I'm gonna Michael Jordan it every time. Do you what do you want to do? And so I that raises your game. Now there's people who are just actively, just trying to mess you up. And that can be, that could be that can be problematic, especially depending on where they lie on the call sheet. Um, they may have more juice than you, and that's going to be a problem. But with Val Kilmer, yeah, he's actively stealing those seeds.
I've and I, and I've heard the stories. I've heard that he was very good at playing the politics off camera that already would get inside your head. But, you know, you got to and you know, I doff my cap to you, sir. I mean, you had, you had a lovely career. And for me personally, I just don't know that. I can't imagine that you're never off, I would imagine that tortures you all day long. You're thinking about you're strategizing. But I don't
know. I don't these, you know, because when I saw that documentary, his children seem to be madly in love with him, so he must have been a really great guy. So, you know, we all play
the game differently. I mean, you know, that's why, that's why I'm so fascinated with sports, not because I'm really, I'm not a sports fan, but I love a sports documentary, seeing the psychology of it and how people get you know, you've got a guy like Michael Jordan who has to create a conflict so that he can be excited enough to perform, right? And then you've got the Scottie Pippen, who's got a whole different mentality, how
they go into it. And I'm always fascinated by that, like, how do you get up, get get up, to do what you to play the game. And for me, what it has to I, you know, for me, like I said, it's always has to be about play. It's not about winning. It's about I want to serve the piece. First of all, I want to serve whatever show I'm doing, and then I want to play. And that's also talking about getting old, the best part about being a veteran of this business is people let me do what I want.
You know, the audition for drop, they let me I just improvised it, most of it, and they were like, they let me revise on set. And as I've gotten older, people let me improvise a lot more. I just finished the show, which unfortunately got a little slammed by the strike and didn't
come out in time. But when I did Orphan Black echoes on AMC with Chris Ritter and Kelly Hawes, which was so much fun, the Anna fish go, the showrunner, she just let me, she let me just do my thing, because there was a one character on page, on the page, but then she wanted me to do it, and we had a great conversation. We realized we grew up in the same
neighborhood, New York City. We knew all the same people, so she just let me go, and then ended up being probably 50% of what that character did was all make them ups, and which is fun because it keeps it because I like it to feel real when we're doing it. I like to get the reaction out of you that you don't expect you're talking going back to our metaphor of seeing a band live. I don't want to see what you did last night in Albuquerque. I want to see the what you're doing today in
Scottsdale, right? And and it's an interaction of the air and the thing. And because what the school of acting that I grew up in was that it was supposed to be real, what's happening in front of you is real. And that's why I don't ever plan anything. I never set anything. I do all
my preparation. And then when Chuck and Reed show up, you say your line, I say my line, we put a spin on it, throw the ball back, and whatever you and I do together is a million times more interesting than anything we could have thought up at home,
right? Because it may be scary and we may it may be some place we didn't want to go, but what ends up having is something real is happening and and, like, I say, like, I love the mistake, because when something goes wrong in a scene, especially if you're you can't cut, or whatever, like that, then everyone gets a lot more present and awake, and then something interesting happens. So I'm
always acting for the mistake. I love to play and, and it's interesting because, you know, for the most part, a lot of people want to play, and that makes it fun. But then every once while, you run into a guy who's got a plan and and if you have a plan, I'm just like being strategic. You know, talk about Val Kilmer if, if he was
strategic. I mean, I certainly know very strategic actors, but if he was, then there's people who have a plan, and they know what they want to do, and it works for them, and they're going to have a certain career. But it's not fun to play with. It's not fun to be on set with, because there's no surprises.
What about with different directors? Because, like, I think I heard, was it Spielberg that I think he was talking, was it Liam Neeson and Schindler's List, where he was directing him, and he was telling him, okay, then you're going to take a drag your cigarette, and then you're going to say this line, then you're gonna take another drag your cigarette, like, he was basically telling him exactly how to act like, like, beat by beat like, and you're saying like, you'd rather have it be
more natural, but then again, Spielberg, I mean, it's got a huge level of success. So maybe different directors, different things, work for them.
And you also have to if different directors, especially auteur directors, they may have a very strong vision, and that's a whole different kettle of fish. So that's a different experience. If you're just doing a realistic drama, or you're doing something or coming you know you want to infuse that. But there's certain visionary directors. My wife has worked with a few of them, Norwegian directors, and who are
they? Know each moment that they want to have, how it happens and and I think you can thrive in that. I certainly think, like if, if you had a director who had a very strong visual vision, you know, I would imagine that's how Wes Anderson is, or somebody like that, right, where they know exactly what they want, and you know, you're in their world and you trust them. I think that could be fun. It's not my forte. Like my wife is much better at it. She's much better at adapting to that I don't like
being told what to do. And, and, you know, it's funny, as you know, Gene Hackman just passed, and he's such a icon, right? You know, and that guy, and he was like, No, this is what I do. And, and he does. He did this technique, which I've just gone back to, Sanford Meisner, one of the great acting teachers, the Meisner method. You know, Sandy Meisner Neighborhood Playhouse in New York, one of the greatest
teachers. One of the first things he said is, when you get a script, you cross out all of the stage direction, you know, or the description of how you are responding, like he says angrily, or he goes over and you know, because the words will give you, will give you a sense of what's going on, and then what your job is to bring your interpretation of it and and what gets you going and gets you excited. And so I'm more of that school. I mean, I mean, I certainly, but it just depends.
It goes, director, director. If George, I always say, like people you love, if George Clooney had had directed me every movement and every line of Good night and good luck, I would have done it, because I love that guy, and I would have jumped on a grenade for him. So I think it really depends on the the auteur, the director the piece, and what you're there to do, because sometimes you see that where they're directed with an inch of their lives, and it looks like that, and it looks
mannered and stilted. And in in doesn't necessarily pay off, but then it definitely pays off in Wes Anderson films, and it certainly pays off and in more, you know, I imagine I'm trying to think of like, who are the most mannered directors, but
I'd be curious what you thought of going back to the Oscars because about a Nora, but like, the best movie I saw, which I was so crazy. I saw this movie, and I saw without my girlfriend, because I was like, Oh, she won't like this. It's kind of horror, you know, whatever. And then I saw it, and I go, I'm taking her. She needs to see this movie. This movie so good. The substance. Did you see that? Because what did you think about that? Because that blew me away. I thought it was so brilliant.
Yeah, so the substance for me, I It felt very hands on. It's actually you've made a perfect example like and I watched that director work with them, and she has a she designs every single shot, and she knows what she wants at every single moment. And for me, as an audience member. Or it felt like that. So there's
a clip somebody posted, and they showed different scenes from the substance, and then, like, scenes like, it was like, there's a part where she's, like, laying on the ground in her eyes, like this. And it's like the scene from psycho it was like, all these famous movies that she copied. I was like, Oh, that. I didn't even pick up on that at the time, but now I look back and oh, it's so brilliant. It's so amazing. Yeah,
I mean, I mean the movies, movie great, and people love that movie, and, and I think it's like, you know what i My opinion is it's like, assholes, everyone's got them, and most of them stink. I mean, it's like, I would have had a hard time with that and, and I felt it in the final product. So, you know, I think that's why a movie like onora really resonates with me more, because I can see that he's created this space where stuff is happening that's unexpected and really
interesting. And even just as my wife pointed out, because I think she used to watch it three times, you just even hear, like improvised off stage dialog that's brilliant. And so for me, that's more fun. But, you know,
it's kind of like, what's the guy that directed the player, Robert, what's that guy's name? Oh,
yes, of course, the greatest blah, blah, blah, blah, the player, mash and Nashville. Oh, come on guy, come on. Robert Altman. Robert Altman,
he kind of create this, like you're talking over each other, kind of dialog that had not been done that much in Hollywood up until that point.
No, I mean, that's, you know, that's the beauty of it. You want overlapping dialog. You want people. The worst thing, you know, it's funny. I just, I just did a tape right before I talked to you, and for my wife and I, the worst thing is my line, your line, my line, your line, that's not, it's not how it goes. You want to it has to have that temperament. And you know, you know, Sanford meiser, the greatest acting teacher, I think you know, of the modern era,
who's really laid it out. You know, he said the foundation of acting is the reality of doing, and you don't do anything until something happens to you to make you do it. And what, what you know, and your focus is on the other person. So you react off the other person, and you come in with whatever you're loaded, you've got whatever emotion, but then you just play in the moment, back and forth and like and that's, that's the magic. It's what I want to see in a play, it's what I want to see in
a concert. It's what I want to see in a movie. But I love, I love, you know, there's stylized movies, there's European auteur directors that I enjoy very much, I think. But I don't know if I'd be able to be manhandled that much. I mean, I, yeah, I was, I think, to me
is like, it's kind of like makeup on girls. Like, if I can't tell that you're wearing a lot of makeup, but you look good, then great. And it's the same with movies, like, if I can't tell that, you, you know, piece this out too much, but it feels natural, like, I don't know, is Tarantino a guy that pieces it out, because his movie scene, the dialog, seems so natural. Yeah.
I mean, those movies are so great. And those were obviously, I mean, you, you know, once upon a time in Hollywood, I can watch that movie over and over again. I mean, obviously he gave them space to do those incredible performances, and, yeah, it'd be a dream to work with. But you know, it's just, I think it just depends on the person, right? You could, there's, there's lots of people I'm sure I could work for who could manipulate me line
by line. It's just usually, when you're doing an episode of television, of a show you've been on for a while, I had a director say to me once he's like, okay, when you get to this point, was like, three quarters of the way in this quarters of the way in the scene, I want you to be really shouting. And I'm like, maybe. And he goes, maybe. I like, I don't know. I don't know how I'm gonna feel by the
time I get there. And if I'm thinking about that moment, the whole scene, that I'm not in the scene, like, we'll see if it happens. I don't know, you hired me to do my thing. Let's just let me do my thing. And that's often the thing. I mean, you know what I loved about, you know, bring Clooney back. He hired everyone to do their thing. He hired the best cinematographers, the best writers, producers, you know, sound people, sound people. They the sound guy took me aside.
He's like, he was Academy Award winning sound mixer. And he said, Anyone who tells you you can't overlap dialog in a movie is a liar. I think he did the Altman films actually, per your example. He's like, That's a lie. It's little bit more time. And now with Pro Tools, I know you probably work Pro Tools. I can work Pro Tools. I can get in between anything I can get you can make that space just a little bit more work and it
feels real. And then, you know, if you're doing a fancy thing that doesn't need to feel real, and I'm happy to act in front of a green screen and put on my ask Guardian outfit. If to be part of the MCU, no problem.
So you think some directors maybe micromanage a little bit too much because there's so much going on. I agree. I think, like, if you're directing an actor, you know what it should say, What do you think? And like if even the set director and the lighting, like, kind of let rely on them for their expertise and not try to tell them what to do, because otherwise, what's the point?
That's and, you know, and that's going back to, like him, being a great leader. That's what a great leader does. A great leader assembles the best team and lets them do what they do best, and then only interferes when that interference is actually helpful. So like on this movie on drop Chris Landon. Didn't have many directions, but when he had a direction, I'd be like, Oh, I hadn't thought of that. And it's such a welcome gift.
Better Call Saul. We were doing that scene, and the director literally, the whole night we shot that scene. Did I tell you about shooting that scene? You
couldn't tell me a lot of it last time, and you couldn't even tell me if it's gonna be more than one episode. So then, yeah. And then when I saw it, I was like, Oh, wow. Like that. Could have been a big role, because it would have been the love interest of one of the main characters. But
that scene was hilarious, because we this talking about this scene. I'm Better Call Saul with Giancarlo. So it was just going to be this one scene, this big, beautiful scene, and I, we were called to show up at 5pm at night, and I was like, Oh, 5pm and I had an 8am flight the next day. And I was like, Oh, I'll make you know, 5pm we'll probably be done by midnight. I'll go back to the hotel, have a beer, get ready for my flight. So that seems like a five, six page scene with
mostly me talking. We shut we didn't get to my coverage. We didn't get to my close up till 7am the next morning.
Canceled your flight then, or I
had to move my flight and and I had been there all and so my one adage about acting on camera and acting on film or television is, whatever you think it's going to be like on the day, it's not. It is absolutely not. And I have one piece of advice to give the young actors, to say, whatever you think it's going to be like on that day, it's not. So if you think it's the most important scene of the show. You'll have 30 minutes to shoot it, because they're looting, losing the
light. If the scene a romantic scene on a beach, a tropical beach, it's going to be 40 degrees below zero, and you're going to both have your hate each other. Whatever it's going to be, it's never going to be what you think. So you have to be prepared. And so it's
good life advice, just for life. I'd say it
probably is good life advice. And we did that scene over and over and over again, to the point where at one point I lost my voice and then, and the reason I also thought I was going to get out of there early is because Giancarlo had a scene that he still had to shoot outside in the dark. So I was like, well, like, and I was supposed to be after our scene, so that I go, Oh, they got to be done so they can shoot that scene. They go, Hey, we're gonna, it's gonna the sun's
coming up soon. Can we go ahead and shoot his scene before we come back and do your coverage? And you know, what are you gonna say? You say yes. And so I'm in my room dancing for three hours to like New Wave music so I can stay awake, because I know if I sit down, I will fall asleep, and it'll be all over and on set like all the extras are sleeping on the floor.
Yeah, but it's not good for you to take a nap, and then then wake you up. You can't, because
at that point, it's your sleep time. It's just going to be a mess, right? And and then you have to remember that adage. And I remember when they were like, you know, you're going to do your coverage at 7am and after I've been there for 14 hours, and you you have two choices. You can either fold or you can just go like, yeah, it's because you at home never are going to know that. Like, every time is the first time. So you got to find your fifth and your six wind but that director was
amazing. He he, he was like, we did the first read through me and Giancarlo, and he's like, it's perfect, perfect. It's great. And then
who was the director? It wasn't, it wasn't the main guy. The creator was, it was someone else. No, and
I, I feel awful that I've forgotten his name. He's so good. I've turned off my phone, but yeah, Michael, I know his first name and and he was lovely. And he came with this, this one piece of direction, which was brilliant, and I think so welcome. And He came over so and so direction is great if you're working with someone who you trust. And Michael, sorry, I knew his first name. That's good. That's great. He was amazing, and he was so lovely.
And it was such a great environment, such a great set. And that's that's funny too, and that's a set where you can't change one word. You know better. Call Saul, those such great writers, and that when the writing is at that level, you're never going to try to change a word. It's like, I'd never, I would never presume to be better than Shakespeare or Chekhov or Arthur Miller. But every once in a while, you're like, I got some good ideas. It just depends on
the venue and the show. But yeah, that was a magical time. So yeah, you can, but you don't need to. You need to trust the people you've hired. And then when you have something to offer, it's so welcome, and then everyone appreciates it, and then it brings it all together. But that's, that's leadership, and I don't know, I don't know if you can teach it or or if it's just an inherent quality.
Would you ever try to direct something like a TV episode or a movie or I've always
wanted to, you know, I've always wanted to do the easy way in, where I do it on a show I'm in, but always by the time that, by the time it's my turn, the show gets canceled, or the too many direct, too many actors are already directed. Like on Homicide, my buddy Kyle, he got to direct a bunch, and my buddy Clark was directing him, and I asked her, like, no more directors, no more actors can
direct. And then on journeyman, when we were doing the first season, I was prepping with the director, and he was like, set me all up to direct in season two, and then we never got a season two, so I would like to and maybe that'll come. Maybe we'll get a series that goes for a little while, and because that's always a nice way to enter into it, where you know everybody, and you know the world and people trust you, and that's always great. We talk about this often on the show,
when actors direct other. Actor, especially from the show, it has a whole different vibe, because everyone knows what they're capable of, and so there's a lot more. It's just, I can always tell it, you can tell it when you watch it, because it has just a different vibe, unless those actors have turned into monsters, yeah, but I've worked with a couple of those where they were there. She was a very famous actress, and now she was directing, and I'd worked with
her twice. I'm on the second thing, she's on my show, and it's me and this other amazing actor, Paul Schultze sopranos, million shows. And she's like, I want to see you do rehearse the scene. And like, okay, it's like, 12 hours before we're gonna shoot it. And so we do it. And then she's like, Okay, let's do it again. I'm like, I'm like, no, no, no. I go, you've got two thoroughbreds right here. It's gonna be fine, don't Are you
worried about the scene? I go, and would, what was it like when you were working with Scorsese? And she's like, oh, yeah, I wouldn't have liked this. I'm like, she's like, Okay, you guys, you guys are fine. Like, we don't need to manipulate, you know, manhandle this or manipulate it, because also, the beauty of what we do is, and this goes back to music, too. It's like, it's on film. So first take is so important, and I heard Gene Hackman talk about it, and I really believe it's
like the first take. I don't like to rehearse unless it's something very technical, and you have to rehearse if there's a fight or something like that. But you can actually capture the first moment that these words are set out in the space between the players, and magic will happen, because the first time you say it and you and there's no other there's no other world where you can do that like, and the same thing with a band like
you. Yes, you can work with a producer who will go through and redo every beat of your drums, you know, like, you know, go in and redo all of rats backing tracks, right? Or you can capture them live in the studio, like, you know, like Tom Petty, and so many bands like you capture their first take. I mean, the Beatles, you know, you can capture it happening in the moment where the guys are
playing off each other. And, yeah, it won't be perfectly 127 beats per minute, and some of those hits will come off funky, and that's the music of it. You know, that's the magic of it. I mean, you know, musicians talk about this all the time, and you love it when bands record live and get those pieces, because that drag and people being ahead of the beat and being behind the beat, that's what makes magic,
you know? Because, yes, in Pro Tools, I can make a perfect drum beat and, or, you know, whatever, and I and I can, and yes, it's great. It's great to play to a click and everything to be perfect, and I can get every hit right. But that's not what makes that's not funk, that's not groove, that's not rock and roll. The mistake is the the mistake is the magic, and sometimes they put them into those things. And that's, that's really fun. And, and I, you know, I have a punk rock ethos
for everything. A punk rock improviser ethos is how I approach music, is how I approach acting and life, like it's in the moment. You know, you know, because you never know, right? So it's the John Lennon thing, you know, life's what happens while you're making other plans. And I've never been
a strategist. I've never had, you know, I sometimes set silly goals, but I never, I don't really think about it because, because the thing that you didn't see coming, the job I didn't get, was what set me up for the job I did get. And so, you know, it's the I view life as an improv as a punk rock song.
No, that's, that's great. That's good advice. It's like, it reminds me, you go back to white lotus. I was thinking about, did you see the last episode where the guy's talking to the monk and he's giving him kind of his wisdom or whatever? Oh, yes,
yeah. Okay, so I saw that one. Okay, I haven't seen last week. Good. Like, he's like,
he's like, Yeah, you guys, everyone is trying to, like, you're running from something to escape the pain. And he's like, You can't outrun the pain. I was like, oh, that's like, so smart, yeah. I feel like we try to control things so much in our life, like, at least I'm guilty of it, like, and then it's like, you just, you can't control everything. You got to just let go sometimes, and that's when a lot of the most beautiful things happen. I think you're right,
for sure. I mean, that's the stoic that's the stoic ethos is to only try to control what's actually in your control, and really all that's in your controller are your your actions and how you react. You know, so. But, you know, it's, it's funny to see people try to control stuff that's not in their control, and you'll be a lot happier, but you have to live with that uncertainty,
right? Yeah. Or, like, what did I heard? I heard this guy talking yesterday on a podcast. He was saying, whenever he, like, when you're making a decision, you you always have to, you have to, like, take a step back. And not very rarely is making a decision on emotion a good idea. Like, it may be different in acting, I'm guessing, because you want to use that emotion, but in terms of, just like, life decisions, a lot of times you want to step back and take the emotion out of
it and strategize. Sometimes you want the emotion though, yeah,
sometimes, maybe in a life and death situation, you may need that little shot of adrenaline, but yeah, I mean, a wiser guy than me, it's like, when you're hooked, when you're emotional, or, you know, it's It might even be emotional, because emotion is true, but if you're psychologically in a place you never want to take, a place you never want to take an action from that when you're hooked, yeah, I get
it so much on YouTube, when I get a comment or Instagram social media and somebody rips my clip or my video or my I just, and I just want to tear them a new one, like you motherfucker, you know?
But then it's like, I step back and I go, No, I. Yeah, I should either not respond, or I gotta, like, say something more, and I gotta, like, because, like, yeah, you take that emotion like you're just gonna go off on your with your anger, and it's usually never a good and then it just keeps going, like they just never ends.
No, it's like, I mean, you know, that is the algorithm, that is what they want, because then you have more and all that. Yeah, outrage is the most potent, but is a terrible place to come from. I mean, yes, I think yes, I think you should never, you should never tweet or x angry. And also, there should be a breathalyzer on that thing too. Don't, don't do it when you had a beer and yet, because it's like, yeah,
Ambien was, she was, but yeah, there's like, there's some stuff. Like, sometimes even when you're drunk, you're like, Okay, I don't know how being on drugs turns you into, like, a racist, like, it's like, crossing a line there. I don't know. That's probably true. Yeah, yeah. You gotta, you gotta be careful, like, what you say and in
interviews and stuff. Like, the latest one was Rachel zegler, like, they canceled her press tour because they didn't like, I mean, she was, I didn't know if she even said that, that many things that were that terrible, that a lot of people got really riled up by by her stuff. And I don't know, maybe it's just because she's so beautiful. I'm like, I give her a pass. I don't know. Yeah.
I mean, we're, we've been in a very interesting period where people are, are prone to leaping to outrage and right? And that is the algorithm, because that you need to be outraged. And so people go off half cocked on something that they didn't even see or hear. And obviously it still blows my mind that anyone would react to something where they
don't know the whole context. So if you're looking at a clip of any anyone's podcast or any interview, and you didn't see the words that came before and the words that came after, I would think, and I mean, I certainly, I have, I don't tweet anything that is not I just, it's either promotion or support.
Love. Now you're very clean on social media. Well, you have
to be, because I think we're in this period where people are prone to outrage, are sort of getting off on it. And I think, I hope, we'll pass through it. I mean, it's a sort of a necessary evil in my business to get on it. I wish I hadn't get on it. I wish I was Scarlett Johansson on some level, but, but then I've gotten to meet really cool people like you, so like, it kind of works out. But, yeah, it's not a place. These aren't your friends. It's not a place to
have a nuanced conversation. I don't know where the venues are right now to have a very nuanced conversation, so I would always air Yes.
I think podcasts. I think I've had some really yes in conversation so with people from different ends of the political spectrum, like far left, far right or whatever, you know, left or right or whatever, and I've had very respectful, interesting conversations. And when I look at this, their stuff on social media. I go, God, this person is such a douche. And then you sit down and talk with them, you're like, oh, this person's like, a really good person. Like, they just hundreds of media.
No, that's it, because you said it probably this is the only venue right now, long form podcast is the only place. Because, you know, as Rogan says, you know, you can, you can spin it for an hour, but no one's going to spin it for three hours, right? You hours, right? You won't be able to be authentic. And that's the theme of what you and I are talking about today. Is like, we want you crave authenticity and music and performances and all that stuff. And that's what I
love about this. But it's still, but still someone will get five seconds of what you've said and be like, I he's canceled. You're I can't believe they showed that. And you're like, dude, so but this is
the place the thing where people make judgments about someone, and, like, a lot of times it's someone, and I'm like, I've listened to like, literally hours of the interviews with this guy or girl or whatever, and I know what they believe in and what they think, but they take one snippet they said something in 1972 and they're like, this is what they think. And I'm like, I've listened to, like, literally hours of, you know, for decades, they've been saying the opposite
of that thing. And then you're taking it out of context. And I don't know, it's really fascinating to me. It's fascinating.
And, you know, you spoke about the Buddhists on, you know, on white lotus, and we're talking
so I love, I need, I need to learn more about what I did this thing. It was a, it was a 10 day retreat where you don't talk and you just meditate. And I sucked at it. They said, You mind? I can't I can't meditate for shit. I tried. Though you
have monkey mind. Well, yeah, I mean, Buddhism is brilliant. I love the Four Noble Truths, but there's a secular approach to it, which the stoics are basically. It's all the same sort of ethics and edicts of the Buddhists. It's just about, you know, life is suffering, but you have no control over it. Control
what you can control. But, um, but as far as this thing we just talked about, but people, taking people out of context and quoted them, then I've also had go to the Socratic method, where you just ask more questions, you know. You go like, okay, so what do you say this person is this x, y and z? What do you know about them? Yeah. And what do you know about that? And we usually, you know, that's, you know, Socrates famously said, I'm the smartest man you know, because I know nothing. And he
just would ask questions. And every time you ask questions, sort of unravels, like, how? Because a lot of people are just going off of, out of, off of nothing, right? So, but it's challenging, and, you know, you just want to be kind. And remember, yeah. All you can do is control how you react. It. Don't go off half cocked, don't go after someone on, like, unless that's your business. And, and I'm sad if that is your business, like, you know, engaging people aggressively, and because