The Hateful Eight

AK-47, the very best there is, when you absolutely, positively got to kill every motherfucker in the room, except no substitute. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord. when I lay my vengeance upon thee. D-J-A-N-G-O. The D is silent.

Welcome back to Chronologically. This is the podcast where we go through the full filmographies of some of cinema's greatest creators. My name is Jeff, and with me, as always, is Eric. Hey, Jeff, how's it going today, man? I'm doing well, you know. I don't want to, like, a couple of our more recent episodes have come out, and we, like, talk about the weather. Yeah. And it's, like, 80, 90 degrees here, and the podcast comes out and says, ooh, it's a cold day today. Right.

Really dates it. It is a weird thing for us to lead with every time. Yeah, we probably shouldn't. That being said, I just saw the Minecraft movie. That'll date this. Saw it in theaters opening weekend. But anyway, we're on our fifth season where we're looking at all of Tarantino's feature-length films. And we are, as the boys, the men would say, well...

I was going to say end of the road, but we're not there yet. But we're close to it. We are approaching the end of the road. We're at the edge of the end of the road. Right. We're at the penultimate episode. which was The Hateful Eight, directed by Quentin Tarantino, starring Samuel L. Jackson, Kurt Russell, Jennifer Jason Leigh, Walter Goggins, Tim Roth, Michael Madsen, Bruce Dern, James Park, Zoe Bell.

And that's about it. There's a few more, but those are your big players. Channing Tatum. Did you say Channing Tatum? Oh, yeah. Channing Tatum. He pops up. My bad. He doesn't show up until near the end.

And it runs for two hours and 48 minutes unless you watch the extended cut, which is closer to four hours, which we did. Which we did. Yeah, I read an interesting thing online and we can talk more about the extended cut and how it played for us. But I read an interesting thing online that said, well, if you add it all up, there's... I don't know, let's just say 300 minutes, right? But each episode has about eight minutes of recap and...

End credits and opening credits. So you can shave 32 minutes off of that runtime because it's not really, you know. You know, it's, it's, it's you watching the same opening credit sequence over and over again, unless you skip it on Netflix, which I think everybody does. I watched it twice and then I was like, okay, I get it.

And then I skipped it the rest of the time. No, I watched The Hydro once. I'm like, oh, as soon as the little button came up to say skip intro, I was like, hell yeah. Because that was like one of my... critiques of watching it in this way was the opening and closing credits um you know because part of me just wishes they would have just released the full like a four-hour cut

Yes, just in a movie. But honestly, the bites, I don't say bite size, but the episodic nature of it made it easier to consume. Like if I were to sit down. for a four-hour movie, I'd be dreading it. But... Being that when I sat down, I really only had to commit 50 minutes. Made it a lot easier to sit down and watch it. And even to the point where I was like, I could do one more episode. And before I knew it, I'd watch the whole thing.

Absolutely. So I had a similar. So I'll just go into my history, if you don't mind, because it's fast. Oh, please. I don't have history with this. Yeah. So this was one of the ones that I missed at the theater. Didn't get a chance to see it. And so...

When the Blu-ray came out, I was excited to see it because I make a habit of seeing them. And so I bought the Blu-ray. And at the time, it was before I had a projector screen set up. But my buddy had one. And he was like, oh, yeah, why don't you bring it over? We'll make a movie night. You know, we'll send the kids upstairs and, you know, the two couples, we can sit there and we can watch the movie. I'm like, all right, cool. Now, this buddy's not particularly into movies. Like...

Okay. Not like we're into movies. Like, he enjoys movies, but he's not, like, into movies, you know? And so... We went over there and we made a night of it. And that is a long ass movie. It's a long ass movie to sit through, you know, with somebody who's not really into movies, not really into Tarantino, you know, like. And so it felt long watching it. And so...

I owned the Blu-ray, but honestly, I never went back to it. I never watched it again. I remember thinking, yep, that's a Tarantino movie, and it all feels like most of the movie takes place inside this one set, and it feels very... uh long and talky and so on and so When the opportunity came to watch this extended version, which I've been meaning to watch since freaking 2019 when it came out in the first place, I'm really glad that you were like, oh yeah, let's do that. Because to me...

It made it a completely different experience. It was, like you said, so much more consumable. So I decided that I was going to watch one a day during my lunch hour. So I started on Tuesday, and Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, I watched one of the four episodes. And I hit the end of episode three, and I think I texted you like, boy, this is really pushing my limits of... like stopping, you know, like self control. I knew I had to get back to work, but I was like, Oh,

dude, like, I would love to just sit here and watch the next one because, I mean, it really cranks up, you know, in that third episode. So I'll say, like, honestly. I really enjoyed seeing this episodically much more than I did watching it in film structure, I guess. Yeah. so i was recording my other podcast the movie draft house with mark who has seen this film and he's a tarantino fan and he's like hey what movie you guys watching for tarantino and i said hatefully he goes oh

I didn't like that one. He's like, I was so bored. And I'm like, oh, great. You know, like shit. And I was not bored even for a moment. um watching the hatefully and again i'm glad that we did the episodic because i think the mindset change of watching this episodically and as opposed to sitting down for three hours to watch a movie, helped a lot. Although I think I'd probably like the shorter cut too, but it gave me a much better attitude going in. And...

I think improved my overall experience because I really enjoyed this. I thought this was great. Oh, good. Okay. I didn't know where you're going to land on it. I was saying to my wife, I don't know if Jeff's going to dig this one or not. um well and i when i'm watching it near the end i'm thinking okay this is got the pulp fiction problem that i complained about nobody's good nobody's really likable um and and when i think about it

Kurt Russell is probably the closest thing to good in the movie, but he's not particularly great either. Yeah, I mean, good is fluid in this movie.

For a time, Sam Jackson is the good guy. And I would say towards the end, he... behaves as if not the good guy then at least like something of the protagonist right well he starts you know starts the movie perfectly hateable but then by the end of the movie you're kind of like yeah all right you know we gotta jump to that then you're bringing it up well that's my favorite part of this movie

Before we get there, I want to talk for a second what you were saying about the mindset of watching a television show versus a movie. Because it's something that I... have been thinking about for a long time and struggling with and i just can't get my head around why i will tolerate an hour of dialogue with no action from a television show But you know what I mean? Yeah. And it's not that I demand action in every film I watch. That was a bad way of putting it. But my standards are so much lower.

For what I'll watch on TV. Like basically if you took two episodes of a TV show. Almost any TV show that I watch. And you threw them up on the big screen as a movie. I would be like, well, that sucked. But as a TV show, I'm like, oh, that's a really good show. It's one of my favorites. You know what I mean? And I don't.

I can't wrap my head around why, like, why do I have such a higher standard for film than I do for television? And, and, and like culturally it seems like all of us do, you know, like. I think that's fair. It's just a weird thing. And so as I've been thinking about it, I've been trying to pinpoint the dividing line. Like what puts something over...

the line into being acceptable as a movie. And for a while I thought like, okay, special effects and editing and lighting and things like that. But we're to the point now where television shows have... just as good as special effects sometimes as films do. And so it's not that. And I don't know. I don't know, long form storytelling versus short form storytelling, like novels versus short stories. Like I don't, I don't, I can't, I can't figure it out, but.

It is something that I've really been thinking about a lot. And why, in this case, when you took this film that I thought was kind of like long and maybe a little snoozy, and you broke it up into this shorter format, I was like, yeah, this is great. I don't know. I don't get it. I don't know. I'm glad we watched it this way, but I'm curious to see if I would have disliked it. Because you were like, meh on it.

yeah i think we even when we started the season i asked you which one was there one movie that you were like and not really the greatest and you i think you said hateful late yeah um And so I wasn't looking forward to it in any way, but it just, the acting, and this to me is like, with, you reduce Tarantino down to his best bits.

And it's the dialogue and the scenes of two people having a conversation that he knows how to make so riveting. And it's that throughout the whole thing. Yes, absolutely. One of the other. one of the other reasons i really kind of the mindset to go back to that is as i started watching it once they got to the cabin i'm like oh this is just a stage play because They'd have a conversation.

And then one guy would be off in the back, just playing the piano. And you could almost in your mind, see the light fading on one side of the stage to draw your attention to the next conversation on the other side. And when I was walking that. That way I was like, man, this would make a really good stage play. So, so good. It just really helped and really clicked with me because the characters are so fun and interesting.

So are you familiar with the history here of how this got written and made and what happened with it and stuff? No, I know nothing. Okay, so he originally started conceiving this. as a novel called Django in White Hell. And it was a novel sequel to Django. And Django was going to be the main character. And then through working on the story, he determined that...

It doesn't work as well if you have a hero figure that you know is going to survive. It's much better if you don't know who's going to make it. So he starts working on the script for a film. He abandons the novel idea, starts working on it. as a film. Then an early draft of the script leaked online and everybody read it.

And he was real pissed off and was like, fuck that. I'm not making that anymore. I'm shit canning it because I'm Tarantino and I shit can stuff. Yeah. But then since he put so much work into it, he decided that he would have a one night.

cast read like oh nice in a theater you know and so he brought out Sam Jackson and Tim Roth and you know some other people like some of the people who were in the movie some of the people who ended up like not being in the movie and and did a script read and they all loved it so much and sam jackson in particular uh was like yo you gotta like You got to do it. Like, you got to make this movie. And finally, it was like, yeah, OK, OK, fine.

I'll make the movie. So that's how he ended up making the movie. But for a while, a couple years, it was off the table. It wasn't going to happen. So, yeah, like it was a stage performance of this that ended up like pushing it through. And I absolutely agree. I'm kind of shocked. that nobody has taken this and made a play out of it yet. And maybe it's just because he would probably want to be super involved and, you know, who knows what this guy does with his time, but I assume he's super busy.

So, yeah, I don't know, but it would really, really work great as a play because it is so one setting. You could just do the stagecoach as the first act, clear the stagecoach, set up the haberdashery. and just roll, you know, it's like, yeah, it's pretty cool. Pretty cool. Yeah. I, I agree completely. So, um, I also think this is, just a stacked cast like everybody in my mind is cast pretty much perfectly and they just own their roles so well um

One, Jennifer Jason Leigh is someone we haven't seen in a Tarantino movie, and she is so good. She is so good in this. I can't stand her, you know? She's awesome. Yeah, she is really good. So when this came out, there was a lot of backlash. Of course, you know, always with him. It's Tarantino. Yeah, and one of the primary complaints was that... Everybody is so abusive towards, you know, the one woman and also towards the one black guy. But the chatter around misogyny in this one was much louder.

This time around. Yeah. Than the chatter around the usual racism talk. So it's interesting because. What I was reading last night, I was reading a couple, like, basically summary articles. Like, this writer said this, and this writer said that, and da-da-da-da-da. And I started catching on to the fact that, like, most... of the women writers that I was reading were actually like,

pro-hateful eight and it was mostly men who were anti-hateful eight which was interesting and that's it's probably a generalization um i'm sure not every woman you know that's like a ludicrous it is a generalization but One of my things is like, I can't find, and I'm just in my own circles, I can't find one black person who was upset by Robert Downey Jr.'s character.

in Tropic Thunder. Right. But I can find a lot of white people. So it is kind of interesting. Right. Most of the women were basically saying she's an outlaw. She's, you know, probably a despicable person. We never really get too hip to the fact of what she's done, other than this is like a big bad gang that everybody's heard of, and they have enormous bounties on them. Like $10,000.

dollars back then is like hundreds of thousands of dollars now you know uh so just mammoth mammoth bounties on them so she's clearly not good and why would they treat somebody like that with any deference over you know, a man. Yeah. That said, there are a couple cute little moments in the movie where she and Kurt Russell, like...

He almost dotes on her a little bit. I don't know if you know this, but the one point where he's feeding her and she's feeding herself and she's got a little food on her face and she kind of holds her face up and he kind of like scrapes it off with her finger. I was like, oh, that's...

kind of funny like it's just a fun little human touch you know the bounty hunter and the despicable criminal you know having this moment uh of where they both kind of forget their roles for a second um but yeah okay so I thought she also was absolutely amazing in this movie. Absolutely amazing. Particularly after you find out... After all the reveals are revealed. And you know what's been going on the entire time. And then you kind of think back over her performance. You know.

And add in that extra layer of, oh, she knew what was happening this whole time, you know? And it was all theatrics and staging and... you know they're all putting on a show they're all putting on a show for these three guys four if you count ob uh who rolled in you know and and waiting for their moment and uh with that extra layer it's so freaking good you know it's so good um on all of their parts because the other guys you know they must be reacting when she gets punched

you know, like Kurt Russell's halls often wax or one, and you know, the other guys have to be like bristling, you know, but they can't do anything because the, you know, the time isn't right. And so on. So, um,

Yeah, oh, it's a delicious, it's a delicious movie. The film that it reminded me of the most... And then I went back and read after watching it and it turns out that it was definitely a inspiration was the thing with Kurt Russell. Have you seen that lately? yeah in the past year i have so yeah i get that like because it is sort of a whodunit and uh you don't know who's bad but everybody's kind of bad

Everybody's kind of mad, yeah. And so it's really just watching all these guys bounce off each other in this enclosed space and nobody can go anywhere. Yeah. I very much more appreciated the setup and, you know, the entire, I don't know. It is really good. Very good. Very good. Yeah.

I think, just like you said, the characters bouncing off each other. You get so many scenes. It feels like, and I don't know that this is for sure, but it feels like every character kind of gets their moment with... the other characters to differing dis you know amounts you know for sure but they really kind of make a point of having everyone really sort of be in this stew together

And I think that the characters are so individually different and interesting, but they made such individual, unique characters that... I like that Michael Madsen. It doesn't say a lot. He's just kind of off in the corner. And he's got that gruff voice of John Gage. It was really nice to see him again because we talked to... we saw him in kill bill and he was kind of all right but then you know his classic turn in reservoir dogs and this is about all we've seen of him so

Absolutely. I don't know what I'm trying to say other than I think they did a great job of creating really great characters to bounce off of each other. The recipe was really perfect. And I just remembered the one good character is Obi. Everyone liked Obi. Everybody, yeah. And it's a shame because they would have totally killed him because they were ruthless.

motherfuckers like no doubt like they slaughtered everybody in minis happened to ashery when they got there and they would have absolutely killed ob whether they liked him or not Yeah. Yeah. It's funny because it has been long enough for me that I couldn't remember who was good and who was bad.

and who was in on it and who wasn't. And it turns out that everybody in the place when they get there is either in on it or, in the case of the general, they've allowed him to survive because he's agreed to cooperate.

And they all have a secret that there's Channing Tatum in the basement. Yeah. So good. So listen to this. This is an interesting quote from... quentin tarantino it's just like talking about how he came up with this idea and it's from watching uh old westerns like 50s and 60s westerns on tv um Twice per season, these shows would have an episode where a bunch of outlaws would take the lead characters hostage. They would come to the Ponderosa and hold everybody hostage or go to Judge Garth's place.

in The Virginian and take hostages. And there'd be a guest star like David Carradine, Darren McGavin, Claude Adams, Robert Culp. Charles Bronson or James Coburn. I don't like that storyline in a modern context, but I love it in a Western where you could pass halfway through the show. Or you would have to pass halfway through their show to find out if they were good or bad guys. And they all had a past that was eventually revealed.

I thought, what if we did a movie starring nothing but these characters? No heroes, no Michael Landons, just a bunch of nefarious guys in a room, all telling backstories that may or may not be true. Trap these guys together in a room with a blizzard outside, give them guns, and just see what happens. yeah and what do you mean that's what he did that's exactly that's exactly what he did yeah

Were there any characters, so for me, I'm going to ask this with my own answer in mind, but were there any characters that you're just like, oh, this guy is the good guy. This is the innocent guy. We already mentioned OB. But for me, I felt like Bob was wrongly accused throughout most of the movie. I'm like, Bob seems like a nice guy. He's making stew for everyone.

Get off his case, Samuel L. Jackson. And then he turns out to be part of the team. You're like, oh, fuck. All right. Yeah. Yeah, Bob. Bob is one of the funniest ones. I just like how Bob, like, says one or two word sentences on Bob. you know yeah yeah um i and then the lead into the reveal the dialogue so good but the reveal of did um i can't remember the name of the proprietor of the place um mini

What was it? Mini and Sweet Dave. Mini. It's like, did Mini ever tell you about the sign above the bar? And no, no. He goes, it says no dogs and no Mexicans. And then she took it down. You know why? Because she started to allow dogs. And it was just such a great little...

moment to me of him finally getting caught and me being like, okay, Samuel L. Jackson is really on to this guy and has been on to him since the beginning. Yeah, he's had his number since they walked up or rolled up, whatever. Yeah. Yeah, it's funny that he kept that card in his pocket that entire time and just chose the right moment too. That's what makes this movie fun is that they all have these little secrets and bits of knowledge.

Except for maybe Walton Goggins, who can't help himself, but just reveal everything he knows about every single person the moment he sees them. He's like, oh god damn! you're the general oh god damn i'll be a goddamn goofy dog you know like every person he meets he knows who he is he just totally like just lays it all out there

Um, which is funny. So, Oh, you did, you did when back in the beginning before I interrupted you, you did want to talk about like the, the eventual, uh, I don't know, change in sides or, or team up. I call it strange bedfellows. It was two guys who are polar opposites, maybe not as opposite of as Samuel Jackson and the general, but you know, Walter. uh, Goggins is a Confederate, former Confederate sympathizer soldier. Uh,

His dad was one of the big generals as part of the Civil War, and he's very much racist and pro-slavery. And Samuel L. Jackson, of course, is a black man, but he's also... fought uh in the union for you know the north in the civil war so he also has a lot of it seems like they've all done war crimes as well Yeah. Like all of them are carrying this baggage of like massacre behind them. I agree. And then, um, lost my train of thought. Uh, so they're pulled.

they're opposites right but when the poison coffee happens and samuel jackson and walter goggins are like the only people who don't who aren't in on it that haven't drank it um Samuel L. Jackson is able to determine that really the only one in the room he can trust now is Walter Goggins and their chemistry as friends. was so good it was samuel jackson would be like i damn sure no it wasn't you know you and then he walter goggins would be in the back like you know like just kind of backing him up

And they completely forget about their past. And by the end of the movie, they're kind of best friends, you know? Like, they're... listening to each other and Walter Goggins even gets the chance to sort of maybe get out of this alive. And instead of betraying his new friend, he doubles down. Yeah. I loved it. I loved that turn. I think everyone likes seeing the bad guy become the good guy, so to speak. But I just think that...

Samuel L. Jackson and Walter Guggs are so good on screen as these friends that it just took me To the next level in the movie is my favorite part. It's interesting because like nobody changes their opinions, you know, like Walton Goggins, I'm sure is still a terrible racist, right? Like his overall worldview has not changed.

But he likes Samuel L. Jackson. As is the case in many of these situations where people hold beliefs for no good goddamn reason, when faced with individuals, he's like, oh, you're okay. You know? Yeah. Have you ever watched... There's a documentary... and i can't remember the name of it but it's a guy a black man he used to be or he's a jazz musician or he's played for a lot of like he's on some like popular jazz albums but he would go and befriend kkk members

And get to know them. And he has a closet of KKK robes from members that have left the KKK because they met this guy and he... kind of just friended them into getting out, you know, recognizing that they were in the wrong place. Yeah. And his appointee goes to a Klan meeting. Like, there's the one black guy at the Klan meeting.

And the leader of the Klan meeting goes, oh, hell, he stops what he's doing, walks up to him, shakes his hand. He's like, man, he's like, he looks around at all the white guys. He's like, this guy here, he uses the... the n-word is like i trust him more than a lot of you folks like it's crazy you know like because He just stops and listens and I don't know. And he gets some critiques from some other black people saying, you know, you're doing.

I don't know how to put it, but they don't like the way he's doing it or how he's doing it. But it's just a really interesting thing where that leader of like a leader of a KKK group was like still very much. segregationist and racist yeah but this guy i like this guy and i think that's walter goggins here well it's like similarly a lot of the the people in the you know

anti-gay movement, they might eventually change their tune if they end up having a gay kid. I mean, not all of them. Many do not, but some do. Well, there's certainly... some Republican leaders that have. That is exactly what I am thinking of, yeah. Yeah, they're like, oh, never mind. You know, I'm... Which makes me think that they...

are just towing their political line, and they don't actually believe it anyway, you know? I wonder what percentage of haters are just towing the line, you know? Like... Yeah, all right. That's a long conversation to get into that maybe we don't need to right now. Yeah. But it is an interesting dynamic. And you see it also play out with the general to a certain extent until Sam Jackson completely flips that on his head.

Exactly. That was another part that got me because the general is even more racist than Walter Goggins' character. I don't want to keep saying Walter Goggins is racist, but his character, Chris Vanix, is racist. But Bruce Dern plays General Sandy Smithers, and he is like, I won't even go across the room. Well, can I bring you some soup? No, because I'm not going to eat at the same time as a black guy. Right. Like he is super racist. But then Samuel Jackson comes over and he says something.

Me and this man shared a battlefield together, and it immediately disarmed Sandy Smithers. Absolutely. He found the common ground. He found the perfect common ground. Yeah, and he sit down as... fellow soldiers and have a conversation together now samuel jackson's got ulterior motives right because it weird i didn't i'm like what is he doing when he placed the gun down next to the general

And then it kind of clicked. I'm like, oh, he's trying to get him to draw first so he can have self-defense. Right, right. And it's so funny that in this dire shoot-em-up... world where life is cheap. People are still concerned with the legalities of their actions, you know, like, like Sam Jackson. Is it like some of the shit that has flown out of the general's mouth? You know, you know, you.

you would not blame Sam Jackson to put a couple in them, you know? Uh, but well, and then like the reason to is Sam Jackson, those that this guy is like, for lack of a better term, the guy who runs a concentration camp. He's the guy who takes it even further and actually kills people. Chris Mannix, Walter Goggins, is... a racist and he fought in the battle but General Smithers is a guy who was like actively like going out and killing as many as he could and was just a really terrible

Even more so person. Yes. Yes. So do you buy any of Sam Jackson's story that he tells this guy? Not a moment. No. It's like such bullshit. Yeah, because I get... So up until that point, that happens around episode... Is that three, maybe? That's in the middle of episode three, yeah. Yeah. And up until then, I'm really enjoying the movie. I have no complaints. I don't mind the slower pace. The characters are so interesting. And you're watching just top tier acting class like the.

Everybody in this movie is great actors. And then we get to that story and it's so left field. It's so far left field. Like he's thinking. Remember when we watched True Romance and Dennis Hopper was thinking of the most offensive thing he could to get them to kill him? He's going to use the racism of his audience.

to inspire violence. It's the exact same dynamic. It's a hundred percent, the exact same dynamic. That's what Samuel Jackson's doing. He wants this guy to throw down and you, you know, Walter is like, no, he's totally goading you, you know, but the guy can't get past it. And he even asked questions of why I know Sam Jackson is lying is there's a lot of questions that the general asks, like, well, if that's true, how do you know that? Like trying to get proof that he this actually happened.

And Samuel Jackson never offers any. No. He just keeps going with the story. And so, you know, and it works out exactly how he wants it. But no, I don't buy a lick of it. But it is a moment in the movie where I kind of fell off a little bit. Like, I would say that's probably my least favorite part, just because it was so left field for what the rest of the movie was. For me anyway, it kind of took me out of it a bit. But then we kind of got back on track into the characters interacting within.

the uh haberdashery so it's just it was one of those moments i was like less enthused about Speaking of buying things or not buying things, do you buy that Mannix was actually going to Red Rock to be the sheriff? Yeah. I don't see why he wouldn't. Yeah, I kind of buy it too. What's his motive to go to Red Rock? Or...

Because he doesn't really have one, right? It's interesting because the whole beginning of the movie, the setup is, you know, Kurt Russell has Dahmer Goo and the stagecoach, and he just happens to come along with Sam Jackson, who could be a bushwhacker. could be working to free Domergue. You don't know. And then they just happen again to come across Walton Goggins, Mannix, who, you know, again, could be a bushwhacker, could be working with Domergue.

And then it turns out... He could also just be trying to kill Samuel L. Jackson. Yeah. You don't know any of their motivations and what they're doing. And it turns out that both of them... We're really there for the reasons they said they were there, you know, like, like whether we're never get proof that Mannix is going to be the sheriff, but we're never given any reason not to, you know.

Right, because they're going to get there eventually, you know, in his mind. And they'll see. There's so many moments where he's like, just wait till we get there. Right. You know, like, I feel like he does it. And then when Oswaldo Mambre, Tim Roth, is like, I'm the hangman. And Walter Gunnson was like, oh, shoot. Well, I'm the new sheriff, you know, and. He's just so open. It doesn't feel like a lie.

right well this guy it feels like he's proud of it too i'm the new sheriff exactly his personality is so gosh golly god damn like it's hard to even like conceive of him you know, after you get to know him more, being able to hold on to a lie like that. Of course, everybody might be one of the most honest people in the room. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

So, yeah, I think he's going to be the sheriff, too. Who do you think poisoned the coffee? like it's gotta be tim roth or michael madsen right right it's either tim roth or michael madsen but i also one thing i thought of too is i wonder if that first batch of coffee was poisoned the one that bob made right it's like god Damn, she's horrible. But, uh...

Kurt Russell is such a slob in this movie. He just throws the coffee on the fucking floor when he's making the next coffee. He's like trying to pour it in the pot and it's like going everywhere. He's such a slob. I think Tim Roth did. Because I just felt like he would be the one to get away with the most. He was the least suspicious. They're kind of on to Joe Gage.

mostly because of his attitude he's just sort of like a dick and whereas tim ross character is trying to be likable like he doesn't really do anything to kind of piss anyone off while he's undercover

And so I think he would be the suspect most likely to get away with it. Absolutely. You know, these movies often cry out for... supplemental materials you know like we're often like oh I'd like to see a movie of that I'd like to see a movie of this gang before you know, the, these events before Dom Regu is caught, you know, like when they're functioning at full capacity with, with Bob and Joe Gage and Channing Tatum from the basement.

you know like out in the world it'd be an interesting an interesting film to watch um That's all. I don't have anything else to say about that. I would watch that if it existed. There's such interesting characters. Watching them pull off a heist or something would be fantastic. Yeah, I don't know, because I think at that point I'd be where all these people suck. They're terrible. And there you don't have that nuance of this sort of mixture of.

people like their attitudes and stuff like that i guess a heist could because i do like a good heist movie with an interesting team with different skill sets yeah like they got jamie tatum as the as like the friendly face and then they got you know they can dress up dharma

You and like a dainty outfit and send her in, you know, like they can. Yeah, they got the charm of the British guy, you know, and then the disarming affectations of Joe Gage. And, you know, it's a cool team. Like they have like a cool.

team of people they could have a lot of different approaches to their heist and i don't know i just think it would be it'd be cool that's all that's all it'd be cool yeah that's basically the bottom line is that these characters are cool like they're they're very well done

I'm thinking too, earlier on a lot of our seasons, you talk about how you like the miniseries. And I'm like, now I've kind of come around to it. We've got this miniseries. Because it's this movie that... again I didn't see the original but a lot of people's complaints are it's too long and it's really boring and somehow making it longer made it better but I think it

is because they chopped it up into four bites but uh yeah i'm kind of like okay i i get where you're coming from now it's it's the mindset shift that i was talking about yeah right like empire of the sun is where this conversation Oh, God, no. And I know, I know. I still refuse to believe. I know you refuse to believe, but I do feel like stretching it out, cutting it into smaller bites and giving some of those characters a little more room to breathe so we actually give a shit, you know?

is only beneficial. None of those characters are even a tenth as interesting as any one of these characters. Milkovich, Milkovich.

Yeah, you're right. They're not as interesting as these characters. No, it's not a good movie. You're totally right. It's not a good movie. I don't... agree that it's not a good movie but you're right it's not the characters are not as interesting as this one for sure yeah so check this out so here in this uh, in this haberdashery, we've got, we've got a woman, we've got a black man, we've got,

a mexican guy we've got a a british guy who let's say stands stands in for uh the british imperialists um we got a rugged outdoorsy westerny type right Kurt Russell. Yep. Incredible facial hair. Yeah. Yeah. We've got some Northerners. We've got some Southerners. Right? Mm-hmm. It's essentially Minnie's Aberdashery. is a microcosm of the united states to the point where at one point they actually discuss splitting it into the north and the south

So that they don't have to be around each other and they can split it the way the country was split down the middle, you know, by belief system or whatever. Yeah. Right. Eventually. The differences that these people have lead them all to mutually assured destruction. Right? Yeah. Is he trying to say something? Nah. You don't think so? Because I think he's trying to say something. Maybe. That's too... On the nose, I think. You know what I mean? Okay. It feels very deliberate to me.

This is a guy who is known to think very deeply about his movies and their themes and rewrite them and rewrite them until he gets them exactly the way he wants them and so on. And having those different... characters slash caricatures that represent these different political groups let's say i don't want to call them like i don't know if political groups is correct demographics i don't know whatever yeah graphics

all in this enclosed space, you know, bouncing off each other. And the way that tensions just escalate and escalate and escalate until, you know, people end up dead. I don't know. It feels pretty spot on. Yeah. Apropos. Exactly. Like, you know, like. I can't say that's not what's going on, but it didn't feel like sometimes you say things and I, my brain clicks and goes, holy shit, you're right. You know, like, and it's like, oh, that.

That really makes sense. That's just not happening right now for me. That's fine. No, no, no. It's totally fine. It's totally fine. yeah it's just i don't know it was interesting because like our country go back to episode one of this pot or of uh spielberg where you say the truck is the penis of the man who is sleeping with the guy's husband. Yeah. You know. I forgot all about that. I don't know why that just came up. It's one of my favorite moments. America, the United States is...

founded in many ways on a lot of hateful beliefs and hateful actions, right? Yeah. This movie is appropriately named. These people are hateful and they hate freely and they hate in any direction, you know, like, you know, many hates Mexicans because it's a nice lady running the haberdashery. Fuck those Mexicans, though. You know, like... Ended that out of context. Yeah. Thanks. Just turned it into a sample.

So the bottom line is that there's this undertone of mutual dislike bubbling beneath the surface throughout this entire film. Right. Like, yeah, they all have this discomfort with the situation. open anger at the history the civil war is still in play here for these people you know the this question of the north and the south isn't necessarily settled in everybody's mind um You know, racism is very upfront and apparent and vehement and stinging. You know, God, the thing that that.

drives Bruce Dern over the edge is the implication that maybe his son was forced into doing gay shit with a black man. You know, like, yeah, there's like now thinking of all that. Doesn't that feel like the United States? Like even the way it is now? I think that's fair. Like now it's...

I don't know. I don't know. Like, it just feels like this is a representation of the people, the way that people felt back then very specifically chosen to represent different factions from the United States. And it still applies today. That's what I'm trying to say. I think that's a fair and well thought out perspective. Thank you, sir. Thank you very much. I just thought it out right now. Out loud. For you. Very cool. Okay. All right.

So Channing Tatum's in this movie. He's under the floorboards, which is a twist for, like, they show Channing Tatum's name at the beginning of the credits, but I started skipping the credits on episode three. uh on episode uh two and then episode three and then he shows up and it's at the end of three right that he's under the floorboards yeah it's at the end of three and then he really shows up in episode four and and and i'm like oh shit

It's Channing Tatum. Right. I totally forgot. Totally forgot to it to the point. Well, like I forgot because I saw his name and I kept waiting. I kept waiting for him to show up to the point where I started thinking like. Did they dress him up as Bob? Because Bob's the only actor that I wasn't totally familiar with, right? Right. And then when he finally shows up, I was like, oh, good. Okay.

They didn't dress him up as Bob. It almost is reminiscent of when Matt Damon shows up in Saving Private Ryan, right? Yeah. Way deep into the movie comes an unreasonably big star to be in this small part, looking all fresh-faced, handsome, and Hollywood-y. He does that a lot. Just to deliver that charm. sudden moves yeah he just shows up at the end yeah you ever see you ever see um this is this is the end or whatever it is the seth rogan james franco end of the oh with the uh the chaining tatum

They got Channing Tatum with the ball gag. They got him on a leash. That's so good. I gotta watch that again. That's really a funny movie. Yeah, Channing Tatum, not above showing up. You've seen the Deadpool, of course, right? Oh, yes. Of course, yeah. And...

And I felt like he kind of tapped into this character a little bit for that, where he started speaking French. Yeah, a little bit. A little bit. I was like, I wonder if this is what they saw, you know? Like, I think they had... gambit in mind before this but uh you know yeah he uh he he's that whole section where they go back and show what happened at the haberdashery before Our guys arrive.

is very welcome when it happens. Like when it first kicked in, I was kind of like, huh, like that's how we're starting. Right. You want to keep going with the story. Right. Exactly. But then like, as they work through it and you kind of start to see like, who Minnie is and who sweet Dave is. These people that they've been talking about this entire time, you know, and then you got Zoe Bell. Zoe Bell being the excited stagecoach driver feeling a little enactment. You know, I love Zoe Bell.

One thing that I do like about these movies is the way that they show that people in these historic settings had different personalities. You know what I mean? I talked about this a little bit with Django, but... Like, essentially, when you look at pictures from back then, everybody is super straight-faced, and they're just staring straight at the camera with this grim look on their face, and it's in black and white. And you kind of start to get the feeling that...

Everybody was super stiff and no fun, and they all kind of conformed with this way of behaving and so on. And a lot of films represent historic... people that way you know are the people are real serious so then when you see a zoe bell kind of like bouncing around and like dancing by herself you know like just hanging there like oh yes please peppermint stick woo you know it's

It's fun. And it's a fun reminder. That's probably how people were, you know, like, I don't know if you've ever seen the, the semi famous there's a, there's a photograph of these, this couple. And it's like a four picture thing. And the first two pictures of them looking all serious and stuff, looking like a regular old timey picture. But then the bottom ones, they're totally like laughing and, you know, having fun.

It's very much like that, like this surprising thing. And you're like, oh, oh, yeah, those were people. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So but I really enjoyed. you know, once it got into it, kind of like seeing how it all played out. Oh, okay. That's why the blanket's on the chair. Right on. There he is putting that on. And that's where that jelly bean on the floor came from. You know, like...

It all tracks nicely and it ends up being like a welcome bit of information to have. Because then when it comes back to the story, then you have everybody locked. like firmly in your mind who they are, why they're there and what they're doing. You know, all the mysteries are resolved and now it's just like, let's see how this all plays out. Yeah. I, uh,

It was important to see. And it is when actually kind of almost one of the first like really violent moments in the film. Because outside of Bruce Dern getting killed, you know. pretty tame from the violence perspective until that moment. That's when you start to see all the big bloody squibs that look like the same overkill squibs that they had in Django.

Yeah, yeah. I read that the guy in charge of squibbing is the same guy who did the Walking Dead TV show, which really explains a lot. Like, I don't know if you ever watched that show, but it was very, very much the same.

same with the blood flying in every direction you know um yeah very like good job on that dude again uh speaking of people who from other stuff who were involved the um composer and I don't have his name in front of me it is an Italian name but he did a lot of old westerns didn't do a western for 40 years and then came on board for this uh also the composer behind the music from the thing and behind the music from the exorcist 2

Didn't really have enough time to do a full score, so he pulled unused tracks from those films and used it in this. Oh, interesting. Which was kind of cool and fun. So, what do you think of Kurt Russell?

As a character or as an actor? Both, like in this movie. I love him in this movie, but it is full Kurt Russell, right? Yes. It doesn't feel that far off from Wyatt Earp.

I mean, the character's clearly different. Wyatt Earp in the movie Tombstone is a lot more honorable. But it's full Kurt Russell. Like, I think... if like i compare him to death proof kurt russell i would say this is more of a kurt russell performance what you can expect whereas i feel like in death proof it's more of a character if that makes sense yeah um But it's Kurt Russell doing what he does best. I really like the scene where he dumps the coffee out. Damn it! He dumps it.

Uh, Tim Roth says, yeah, it is bad coffee. We just didn't have the heart to tell him. And, uh, Jennifer Jason Lee goes, well, he doesn't have that problem. Remind me of where you fell, and I kind of recall this might be a point of contention between you and Mark, where you fell on Bone Tomahawk. I liked Bone Tomahawk. Okay. He did not. Yeah, because I'm a Kurt Russell in a Western. Right. Because Tombstone's one of my all-time favorite movies ever. 100%. Like the awesomeness of Kurt Russell.

being Kurt Russell in a Western. just on its own carries bone tomahawk. Like bone tomahawk. Okay. When we were talking about from dust till dawn, I was saying, I like movies that start as one thing and then they turn into something else. And you asked me for an example. I couldn't come up with one on the spot. Bone Tomahawk. That's another perfect example. Three quarters of that movie is just an awesome Western, right? It doesn't go nuts until the end. The Descent is another one. But, like...

And the Western is great! Like it's so good. Like it's a really good Western. So yeah. Okay. I couldn't recall whether you liked that or not, but yes, I agree on Kurt Russell in a Western. I do feel like in this film he is doing like. really a lot of John Wayne. Like, his accent, at least, is super John Wayne. And I wish that I had John Wayne so I could, like, imitate it. But my John Wayne is whack and doesn't sound anything like John Wayne. But, you know.

like you mean bastard probably sound a lot like your uh uh your character from this good golly right totally

But yeah, I think he's great in this. And I was really surprised when he gets bumped off as early as he does. Because, you know, he's... really like one of the marquee names in it and man the way they die i didn't think he was gonna die like because he only had a little sip of the coffee right yeah and then he had spit up the blood and i thought he was gonna make it you know it's like he's still gonna make it

and um nope you didn't make it the blood vomiting is extreme and he's also like the he's one of the first characters you see and so you just assume that he's gonna make it at least to the end right you know nobody's safe in the tarantino film but nope yeah i mean it's a good point nobody's safe and none of them none of them Nobody in this movie makes it out alive, which is interesting. You're basically watching 12, 15 people swirl down the drain in slow motion in this movie. So...

The only thing the movie is missing is a scene where someone comes in after the ice is melted and they open the door and they... they see Jennifer Jason Lee swinging, you know, in the middle of the thing to, uh, you know, a Confederate soldier or, um, and a union soldier, one of them black laying on a bed together. Right. Like, you know,

Like just this, what happened here? Right. What happened here? Right. Like Antonio Banderas walking into the hotel in four rooms. That's exactly what I was thinking.

What the fuck happened here? Totally. All right. So now I got to ask. It's my duty to ask this. This is a film where there are no good guys, really. Everybody is just shades of gray, right? They're all pretty unpleasant, bouncing off each other in this thing, and they eventually all kill each other. No real protagonist, although there are some points in the movie where some are more likable than others, you know? Yeah. Do you think that...

Had we not watched all of these movies in progression the way we have, do you think you would have been less receptive to this? the way that you were with Pulp Fiction. And the follow-up question to that is, does the fact that you actually enjoyed this make you possibly reconsider your position on Pulp Fiction? There, I thought about this watching it because I knew this was going to come up because it is kind of that way. You know, there isn't outside of OB anyone who's.

like a good person. And I thought about it, and I'm like, well, and I'm trying to, you know, think about why do I respond to this more so than I do with Pulp Fiction. And I think... The setting has a lot to do with it. Whereas Pulp Fiction is a modern, at the time, era. And it was a lot more real and kind of... darker like I think Pulp Fiction is a darker film than this uh in that you know you you've got the rape scene um all the drug use and like

I don't know. There's just an element of... I want to say darkness, but what I really want to say is sliminess to it. And... I think one of the reasons that maybe this is okay with me more is there weren't a lot of innocent people trapped in between. what was going on you know like you watch uh Reservoir Dogs and they Harvey Keitel shoots all those cops and that one lady gets shot by Tim Roth and

I think it's part of that. I also think now I've watched a lot of these movies where, although once you get to Jackie Brown, you do start to have good characters. Yeah. But I think I don't think when I think in my head, because I thought that I was like, maybe I should go back and watch Pulp Fiction. But when I think about doing it again, I'm like, oh, no, I don't I don't want to watch it again.

I think it's fair. I don't think it changes my opinion. And I think because this is such an interesting and fun Western... And in Western movies, generally, there aren't really good guys in Western movies either. Like if you go and watch Tombstone. the Earps aren't really that great. You know, like, okay. And in real life, Wyatt Earp was not that good. I was about to say, Clint Eastwood would like a word, but actually you're, you're correct. Because like, if you think of unforgiven.

The movie is fucking called Unforgiven because he was a bastard. So you're right. There's a lot of moral ambiguity going on in Westerns as well. So I think maybe because of the setting. And it also... it's called the hateful eight. So I guess going in, you know, these guys aren't going to be great. I did think about that too, because one thing that we never did discuss when we talked about Pulp Fiction was the fact that it was named Pulp Fiction.

And so that implies that it's going to be this heightened thing and that there's going to be really kind of nefarious, carnal, you know, like... over the top stuff in the movie i don't think i can separate how i felt when i first saw the movie as well yeah yeah no i mean that's that's very well which is interesting though because i felt the same way about the shining

Like when I saw The Shining about the same time I first saw Pulp Fiction and I didn't like either of them. They were just so dark and left me in such a foul mood. But when we rewatched The Shining, I'm like, no, I get it. This is great. But when I rewatched Pulp Fiction, it just still I get the same emotions that I get from the first time I watched it.

Yeah, I mean, the answer could just be you just don't like Pulp Fiction, and that's fine. Like, I'm not trying to get you to defend your feelings on Pulp Fiction again. I was just curious as to the differentiation. And you're talking about the sex. I think that's very fair as well. Like Tarantino himself says, oh, this is a story that wouldn't work in a modern setting, but I like it in a Western setting. You know what I mean? So I think that's a very legitimate point of view.

Yeah, but I like to think about those things because eventually it dawns on me. When we watched Machete, I'm like, why is this not vibing? This is the sort of shit I love.

And as I thought about it, I realized, oh, it's too bloated. There's too many heroes. There's too many villains. And, you know, so that's why I don't mind having those conversations, because I think there's an answer in there that when I. think of it it'll click with me and i can you know express it better than i am currently so yeah no it's totally cool totally cool well that's all i really had for the hateful age did you have anything else no i loved it like

I'm really surprised that this one that a lot of Tarantino fans didn't vibe with, um, Or at least the ones in my circles I vibed with very much. Well, I wonder how many people did go back and actually watch the Netflix thing. I wonder how successful it was and how many people gave it another shot in that format. And like you said, it maybe works better in this format too. Like the expectation of sitting, I think movies and TV shows, like you said, they are, the differences are like.

When you watch a TV show, you're not expecting a full three acts. Correct. Right? Yeah. You're expecting a lot of setup, a lot of things that are going to lead into the next episode. And... The this movie, while it does have a three act structure. It I think you're going to be sitting there because a lot of the like the first two acts are just talking.

You know, just there's not a lot, especially in a Tarantino movie where you're used to there being action and violence and blood and guts. And there isn't a lot of that until you get to the final act. So. yeah i can see why someone would go into the theater and be bumped and had i saw it i don't know i think i would have liked this i've never seen the original cut but i think i would have liked it just because i like cool westerns yeah and

This is a cool Western. I think I might have liked it better had I sat in the theater and watched it by myself, quite honestly. Yeah, because that does affect things. Oh, yeah. I have... a friend i was like man you gotta watch scott pilgrim versus the world you'll dig it it's got anime and video games and action and it's funny i think it's right up your alley

And he watches like, nope, sucked. Worst movie I've ever seen is so terrible. Everybody was whining. I'm like, how did you not? Like, I didn't get it. Like I get when some people don't like it, but I'm like, this is your wheelhouse. This is the shit you like. And then later on, he like years later, he goes, hey, man.

you were right about Scott Pilgrim. I had watched it with my wife and you know, she complained about it the whole time and it just made it unpleasant. He's like, but I watched it again. It's fucking wonderful. I'm like, oh thank god you know so that definitely 100%. I think we've talked about this before. When I walk out of a film that I see with my kids and they really enjoyed it, even if I absolutely hated it, I try not to say anything. And watching Minecraft...

There was a bunch of kids in the theater and their enthusiasm made me enjoy it.

spoilers for the minecraft movie but there's a point where a character quote unquote dies and my son goes do you think he's really dead i'm like no of course not and because i don't think my son bought it at all but there's a much younger kid two seats to my left and when that character makes his triumphant return he's like what he's not dead oh my gosh and it just kind of like you're like this is fun i'm having fun in this one but i think if i watch minecraft movie

on my own i would have been less enthused oh yeah just having the kids and they applauded like when the you know steve shows up the first time they applaud and like just the different

you know, callbacks to the video game where everybody's like, yay! It just makes it more fun. The vibe can carry the day. That was me at the Taylor Swift movie. The vibe carried the day through the three-hour... taylor swift concert because all the kids were having so much fun that i was like all right i'm on board i'll i'll not be a hater about this yeah so okay so this leads into

Our next film, which is the last of the Tarantino films for now, if he ever pulls it together and makes another one. Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. I am really looking forward to hearing your thoughts on this because I know you've got some negative feedback from others going into it. And I got negative feedback for The Hateful Eight. Yes. It's something I've said on my other podcast, even if I bitch going in, I can be swayed. Um, I like to think of, uh, on my other podcast, my, on Mark selected.

the uh jaden smith karate kid and i bitched and moaned i'm like i don't want to watch this shit i'm not even that big of a fan of karate kid this is goodness and i watched it and loved it and i was like You know, I'm always going to give something a fair chance. Jane, Jane Smith.

Oh, Jaden Smith. Oh, that's a great movie. Oh, no, that's a really good one. Yeah, it's fantastic. And even to the point, my controversial take, and Mark's as well, was this is better than the original. No, it is. In my opinion. No, it's a great movie. It's really good.

they've got the sequel coming out with uh ralph macchio and and uh and jackie chan oh yeah totally yeah thank you and i'm like i'm totally watching that because i loved the the jaden smith one so much it was so good so 100 but yeah that's my point is that even though i've heard things i will still go into this with an open mind and we'll probably love it you know yeah you got

brad pitt and leo and margot robbie margaret quality uh timothy i love timothy oliphant you know right and so and i see that margaret quality or excuse me margot robbie is playing sharon tate so i'm like How much of Sharon Tate are they going to get into? So I'm intrigued. Yeah, and I think it also might help that we're just on this wavelength now, right? Like, we have locked into the vibe.

and we can ride the wave and so that that might be helpful and i think hateful eight's gonna help right because it is slower it is almost all dialogue yeah so um I think I might come out of this. I expect to have a higher opinion of it than some of my peers. Excellent. Excellent. All right. Well, on that note, I guess we can wrap it up.

Yeah. So if you want to hear more from us, you can check out all things being sequel. You can also check out my other podcast, the movie draft house, go to gaming nexus.com for all your video game review needs and go to Eric. hyphen hotter on blue sky i'm at jake queasy on blue sky i never check it but he does so maybe just tag him instead uh and we'll see you next week for our season finale of Quentin Tarantino chronologically. Well done. Thanks y'all. Bye.