¶ Branding and Church Rebranding
All right , hey , what's up everybody ? today ? We are just blew out our ears with our intro music facts . We are talking about branding . I know , i know , snooze , snooze , snooze , so I don't know if you care much about it , but that's what we're talking about today , so deal with it , and it's still useful knowledge .
So if you say we are branding AF , I mean yes , it's all we've done today .
Yeah , even if you're not , I think it's a worthwhile conversation . It's not super long , even if you're a little shorter for us even if you're not , if it's not super applicable to your church life .
So kick back , get your branding hat on , grab a beer and brand a local cow or a brandy old fashioned .
I don't like a thing Yeah it's trash garbage .
Anyway , here we go .
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That was aggressively welcome to the Christian AF small group podcast We give you discussion topics for your small groups .
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For the low low fee of $1,000 per listen .
That would be like if we could cash in on that .
We'd have to do a lot more research .
I think , not just opinions .
Yeah , it's like a .
Mexican IPA almost .
The beer you're drinking , not just the spicy comments .
Yeah , what ?
Yeah , riba Don't say things I have to edit .
Jesse has to edit it up , so we have all drinking today We're drinking Javalina . It is a Mexican logger from Pig Minds brewing in Machesney Park in Sao Illinois .
Yeah .
They have a race track , it's getting . Yeah , i was going to say it's gone .
Oh really .
I think This is the last season . Somebody is somebody , they're tearing it down . Yeah , i heard something The log log is gone Or not .
The log log Hills .
Oh really .
The country club People really really care about this . Yeah , no one knows what we're talking about .
Anyway , yeah , so it's good . I like it . We have a handful of breweries in town that have been making some Mexican loggers that have been for Cinco de Mayo , which is the fifth of May .
Oh , and not really a holiday .
That makes more sense .
Mexican celebrate .
I also am tossing in .
It's kind of like Memorial Day for us . We don't really celebrate Memorial Day . We just take the day off and go to the lake .
Yeah , just another reason to have a drink . Yeah , i got this little tiny can in Chicago called Little Buddy from Hopewell . It tastes like a worse miller . It's not great .
Oh , you don't like it .
No , it's actually not delicious .
It's like if miller and Heineken had a weird baby .
It's right Literally . It's a little tiny can , so it's a weird baby .
Yeah .
It's a weird baby , little Buddy Jen . Wait for the reaction . Yeah , a little skunky , a little something .
How does a beer get skunky in a can ?
I don't know .
I think it's just supposed to be that way , yeah .
It's probably brewed to be gross .
Brewed with a slight scope . That's why it's in the small cans , yeah .
Yeah , you can only handle about this much of this beer . What was that ? Like a five ounce .
You could just use it as a chaser for a Buddy Mary .
It says eight ounce , eight ounce beer . So it's half of a beer , a little cup of beer .
A cup of beer A cup . So today we're discussing branding . Branding Necessary , not brandy . Evil of branding Yeah , not the 2000 singer Brandy .
Or our sexologist friend Brandy Harris .
Yeah , sexologist . She's like oh my God , because she listens , i'm sure all the time She's like not sexologist , yeah , yeah . So yeah , we're talking about branding today . We've been chatting about it all morning .
What is sexology ? We're just coming right back to it Thinking The science of sex , the thinking of the thought of sex . So lust .
Not the thinking of just the science behind it .
Well , ology is like study , The study of .
So it's a study of sex .
Yeah , that hard to study . How do you get that ?
job . Is it that hard to just get a magnifying glass out Like make ?
notes . What are you studying ?
Isn't that what every teenage boy does ? I'm pretty sure there's a lot of study , yeah .
I think the pure question of that is why the G-Spot is a new discovery for some people .
Yeah , or the clitoris , all right .
This isn't what we're talking about . Or the fallopian things , if you don't know where any of those items are . Please find a picture assistance . Don't go Google it . I'm talking about a drawing that you get in health class Go to the library .
Is that make it better A drawing of it than the actual ?
photo . It's always funnier .
Well , you can't see things internally without a drawing .
Oh , you can see things internally .
Oh gosh .
Anyway , that's how Superman knew that .
Louis Lane's underwear were pink in Superman .
He had X-ray vision . I know We don't .
Yeah , now , with that attitude generally , yeah , oh cool .
Would you give up all of his powers just to have sex ? Because that's what he did in Superman 2 , but whatever .
He gave up his powers .
Yeah , at the end of Superman 2 , he gave up his powers so he could have sex with Louis .
Okay .
I was going to take that into even another tangent and I'm going to rephrase , because his ejaculation went right through his spine .
There is a short . That's what I was going to bring up . It's like an early tic-tac or something . It's vine , i don't know as of that direct issue . Yeah , anyway , jen , how's it going ? Branding We were talking about branding today .
Are we In theory , How do you brand Superman ?
Okay , not only a super spur Do we talk about that .
We've been talking about it .
Yeah , we've been talking about rebranding , yeah .
Specifically , yeah , rebranding a church . This will be the thousandth time we're doing it .
No , yeah Like third .
Yeah , this one's like actually .
Actually rebranding .
I guess 15 years right .
Yeah , or 15 years old , now 14 , yeah .
Yeah , this will be a full rebrand . The thing about it is rebranding sucks .
It's annoying , but necessary Conversations are long . It's like everything about yeah , everything you don't like about church . All wrapped into one meaning All wrapped into one meaning .
Yeah , imaginary all that stuff , but it is necessary .
It's like a necessary evil .
So I guess let's start there
¶ The Importance of Branding for Churches
. Why do churches need to brand Like can't we just start like a little basement church and go with it right ? What's the why do we need a brand ?
Well , but even like basement church has a brand Basement church , right , but that's what I'm saying .
A couch is the logo .
But I'm just saying , even if you think you don't have a brand , you do .
And so when we talk about brand identity and you get into things like logos and whatever , or it's just streamlining or like refining what you're putting out into the world when people learn about you , whether you're a church or a business or whatever , so you're , everyone has a brand , personally , right , even your business , everything .
So it's kind of like what do you put out into the world when people come across you ?
Which obviously in the entirety is important as your organization Cause everything they see about you immediately kind of describes oh yeah , you can see a terrible logo and be like oh Yeah , not going there . Terrible website , Terrible yeah , yeah , definitely run by six year olds probably , who don't know how to use anything other than paint .
Yes .
And then their grandson uploaded it to you .
Yeah , but that's the but . it is because I think once the church , specifically in the West and primarily in the United States , once , like the separation of church and state , became a thing not saying it's a bad thing but once it became a thing it automatically forced the church to have to figure out how to reach people contextually .
And back in the day that might have been a little bit easier build a church building in a neighborhood , everybody went to church . But now , as church is declining , you have to figure out what is going to be attractive enough to bring a 22 year old kid who hangs out all night long on Saturday nights to your church outside of relationships .
Like maybe they , you know , if someone's Googling , if someone falls on hard times or whatever cause , that's like 90% of why people go back to church . They fall on hard times and they Google churches in Schenectady , new York Like .
Schenectady Yeah .
Give it a boop-boop . Give it a boop-boop . Just riffing over here .
Schenectady , like they are going to choose to go to a church based on what they see , and based on what it basically what they see , they are hearing with their eyes , and so churches have a necessary evil of needing to brand themselves to be able to reach the generation that doesn't want to go to church .
Is it ? I feel like I know what you might say on this , but is it necessary ? should every church's brand are be reaching the youngsters ?
Yeah .
Yeah , i think so I think , specifically as each successive generation , like the boomers , had this if you ever listened to Rick Moren talk about planting saddleback in the late 70s , boomers were the millennials or the Gen Z of the time , and they weren't going to church , and so you don't want to plant a church or have a church that is only reaching 60-year-olds ,
because that means you're only gonna be in existence for 10 years , as they begin to have- . I mean all the young ones get to be 30 at some point , yeah , but I think that's why churches need to rebrand , because they have to figure out ways to continue to feed the next generation or to gain the next generation , or else the church becomes obsolete .
Well , and I think that a healthy church is typically evolving And so rebranding , kind of where we are like just a chance to say is what we're putting out with our brand still reflective of who we are as a church ?
And for maybe a lot of I don't know if you're like a high church , like a Lutheran church or whatever like it's probably not evolving right And so they do tend to stay the same And they're all dying Yeah but just thinking like yes , it's about attracting other people , but it's also about making sure that you're giving a clear message of what people can expect
from you . A direction .
Yeah , because You're giving your people a direction .
Yeah , if it's still even when we started the church , like what we put out is not who we are anymore , right , And that is just evolution and growing as people , growing spiritually , growing in leadership , whatever .
And it's a whole new generation .
Yeah , and so it's just not reflective of us , of our church , anymore , right ? I mean , just when I have a business that we run and we've rebranded three times in 10 years also , and part of that is just trying to figure out what speaks to what you're doing , what you know .
If it's not , if you can't show people like this is who we are succinctly , then it's not working anyway , it's very convoluted or whatever . Then people aren't gonna understand you And that will definitely translate into the first time they walk in on a Sunday morning , would be my guess .
It doesn't match . Well , there are certain brands that are transcendent Apple . Apple doesn't need to change . They might . They will need to change at some point , like back in the day it was like the colorful Apple , remember that . Then they changed to just like the white Apple with the black Apple , but that kind of transcends .
They're also the trendsetters , all said and done , in terms of branding and logo design . But there are certain . There are some brands that don't need to change , but most brands from whether it's a church , they say churches should probably rethink their branding every five years , three to five years .
Companies , especially local business companies , should really think about rebranding every three years .
And , to be clear , branding is not . For those of you who are confused and never had to do it , it's not just a logo , it's literally everything you're putting out Your mission statement , your vision , your goals , your all these things . So that's not to say you update your visual logo every five years , which some people do , we kind of have .
We slightly did it four and a half years ago . We're redoing it again .
But it's just a re-examination of your church organization to say are we still following what we were five years ago , Are we ? still on that same path , and I think that's generally a healthy thing to do anyway .
Yeah , you wanna reflect who you are as well as push towards who you want to become . And if your branding is not a reflection of who you are and or pushing and pushing where you wanna become , then change it . Figure it out , It doesn't .
You know , There used to be like this thing in evangelical churches which was like the vision of the church should never change . Everything else should be constantly changing , which I don't believe that's necessarily true .
I think we should constantly be thinking about what is going to drive people towards making disciples in their own contexts consistently , And if it becomes stale , then you gotta rethink it . You gotta be okay with rethinking things .
I think one of the things that there's always that struggle at least even for us today going through it again is rethinking the general , because we just did have like a four hour long re-branding day right before this . I think that's what we're talking about Is vision as a whole . In theory , shouldn't all churches' vision be similar to the point right .
Yeah , go into world , make disciples of all people . Yeah , and they're baptized and teach .
So is it important to create a vision that's specific to your church , or is it just fine enough to go for that ? Is it necessary ?
Yeah , I think it . I think the goal of the church should never be to take other people from other churches . So I think , unfortunately , a lot of church branding is we wanna be cooler than the next church Or the church that people are already going to . So how can we be cooler than the church down the street , Which is like an unfortunate reality .
But , in particular , how do you phrase the biblical commands in a way that get non-believers or borderline believers to be like oh , this might be a community I wanna be a part of , or this might be a people they look like , a people who I fit in , even if I don't believe , or people I wanna hang out with , even if I disagree with them on things , Which is
kind of what we're trying to figure out , Like how does Grass Roots Church in Rockford Illinois become a place like we already have a few atheists and stuff who are part of our community , but how does it reach borderline and more atheists and more borderline people ? Maybe they've left a church which is like our niche in general .
They left a church because of burnout or hurt or pain , or the pastor wore khakis , I don't know . I don't know . I don't know His khakis were like or lovies one of the two , Yeah lovies , he had abs . I don't like our pastor have abs .
This one feels a lot more at home . Our pastor has a gut Yeah .
He drinks a lot and eats way too much fried food .
But yeah , i think a lot of that . It's hard because I feel like everybody , i mean , unless you're a big organization , usually it feels very like yeah , you know like very business to talk through , like , oh , what are our goals , what are you know , where are we ?
But it's good to set expectations .
Yeah .
Especially of leaders and members . Whether whatever you call your member , every church has members , whether it's like official sign on the dot line or they're just serving on a team , Like every church has some form of membership . So it's like , how do you create a unified cultural direction for the community ?
And that comes in because we're American , that comes in into play with branding and , well , other things , Yeah yeah , sweet Branding . All right , good talk .
Ha , ha , ha ha ha . Jen's just like zoning out over there Like .
I was just thinking I was talking about this all day . We have talked about it all day which is why my brain is so bright .
What makes a bad church brand ?
Honestly , i kind of what I was hinting at before , like if you're just kind of ripping off the same like go , grow , go or go go go , no , grow No , grow , go Go no Gather , grow go is the big one . No , no , grow , that was your guys' at the other church Some form of that right ?
It's called the same .
Of the 300,000 churches in the country , probably 150,000 of them have gathered grow , go Or what was the other one that we used for a long time , like everybody else does , the love God loved people be the church , whatever . Oh yeah , You know that kind of stuff .
I don't think it's necessarily bad . It's just cheesy , but it's not bad .
It's not bad .
It's not wrong , right Like it is biblical . If you like , it could be defended . I guess they're just making it catchy .
It gets lazy . When , though , it's like a catchphrase . And now there's the whole church , united States , doing the same thing over and over again , And I think that's the other hard part about that .
¶ Effective Church Branding Strategies
Branding process is trying to be unique in your own category , which , if you're just looking at it like throwing a cross on the logo , like the easiest thing possible to do , or that kind of stuff , that always makes me go ugh .
Well , it's hard . Like you have whatever number , you said 300,000 churches in the States , right , but all 300,000 of those are the same business , right ? So you think about . One of the challenges is you do have to think about what is unique to us , not what makes us better than or whatever , but what is unique to our community .
Instead of saying like , how do we look cooler than the other cool big church in town ? We need to look more at what the community , where INS , has that is unique to it , instead of what's trendy and what , because I think people are attracted to things that are unique And I think what makes it .
What I don't like in church branding is like the action verb , church names , with the very self-help vibes of a lot of messaging that they put out , and because it doesn't encourage spiritual growth .
I feel like a lot of times when you focus on the self-help , it's like using Jesus to just make you better just make you better make you feel better about yourself as opposed to like actual spiritual growth And I think that a lot of times you can't tell that .
I mean , there are a lot of churches where you can tell you know that's what you're gonna walk in and get , And I think that's probably what I think makes better . But that probably says more about what I think about those churches than- .
But that's why it's also important to know your brand and figure it out too , because if you're actually putting something else out there that does not represent you and not knowing what other people do , you also are putting a stamp on your church as a well , oh , that looks like one of those churches or one of these things , and I feel like most people that
end up doing that kind of do a little bit research to know what they're putting out there , but sometimes not , you know , sometimes it's clip art and whatever , because that's all you can do , which ?
is fine . I think that's . The other thing is like it doesn't . What you put out there doesn't have to be perfect , but it just needs to be representative of what you're doing , because there's 299,000 other people all hoping to go and make disciples right , because that's what every church should be doing .
Yeah , well , i think the other the hardest part , especially since we are kind of all pushing toward the same goal in theory , in theory .
Hopefully .
Is again not chasing trends while still being trendy . I think that's a huge thing . That gets very difficult as people that do graphic design and have done plenty of logos for people Like .
It's a really hard line to toe , because the second you start falling into overused trends or overdone things , you're gonna be out of that , whether it's your logo or your full brand , you know , within two to three years anyway . It's just like well , that was a passing thing . You can tell that was made in the 90s . Or you know , whatever it was .
Well , in the 3D The church is always 3D logos are huge . The church is always 10 steps behind right records that could be almost 10 seconds . The church is never the forefront of current trends , right , like it's never .
I mean , there are some churches who do things that are trendy , but even like churches getting on TikTok or something it takes , it probably took six months other than like maybe one or two churches who are like , oh , this is cool , we have a 20 year old who can run it for us .
Oh cool . I don't know about cool , but this is where the kids are .
I don't even have TikTok . Still , i don't have TikTok so much I use it all the time .
TikTok and chat GPT , that's all just the media . That's sarcasm at all .
Like I am on it constantly .
I am not . I'm on YouTube all the time , though I watch a lot of YouTube It feeds my ADD terribly .
Yeah , like you just keep going .
But I think just knowing being trendy for the sake of being trendy is not efficient branding but being current and sustainable .
And deliberate , and yeah , intentional is effective branding And that means that maybe you don't have the flashiest logo or the catchiest catchphrase , but if it is a true reflection of what you're doing , i think that's way more effective And will it be easier to put out in front of people in better marketing . Like you know , you can pay somebody .
how much should Pepsi pay for that crappy logo ? Two million dollars ?
or something .
Will they change the logo ?
Well , technically they did change it again recently , but the initial major change to that more swoopy side , yeah , it's straight , Oh there is this whole , if you Google it , this whole insane .
But they paid two million dollars .
You're making the number up No it was a shit ton . Yeah .
That's , two million is a shit ton . But then you compare that to like the Nike story of the person who did the swoosh . One million , one million , whatever , it's a swoosh .
Is it a swoosh , nike swoosh .
Oh , sorry , it might be the swoosh .
But the Nike paid 90 dollars Again . it was like no money .
Yeah .
And they . that is iconic and has lasted them forever .
Yeah , As opposed to like Pepsi , didn't need to change their logo right , they paid .
someone convinced them to pay a million dollars and then they paid a million dollars , not that they don't have money .
but totally , I would totally get into that game . How can I , how can I get you to pay me to slightly alter you ?
and write a dissertation on why you should .
That's where you're going to pay for is just the total bullshit that you put on paper .
Why you did this Chat GPD to do .
Just write it up But anyway , my point being you don't A you don't have to spend a bunch of money to create something long that can work longterm for you which you should pay for it if you need it , but you don't need to pay . It's not something that should be a million dollars , right .
So finding a balance of simplicity but we're good reflection of of your organization , i think , is what would make for a much better . This totally spiraled from what makes a bad brand , but I think just being too concerned with the trends and not being true to who you are makes for a bad brand .
Yeah , It's got . it has to be reflective . A good brand is reflective . If it's not reflective , like , if it's like I don't know what are some bad brands in town , Let's drag them to the mud , no , but there are like bad brands or brands that make you it'd be like going be like , Oh , what's a good burger joint ?
And you go and the website looks like it's fancy and they got a bunch of fancy foods . And then you show up and it's like McDonald's . I got some bad brands . It's not reflective of who you are . Like McDonald's is red and yellow with a giant M . It's like , yeah , you know what you're getting , It's but bad .
Not saying McDonald's is bad , It's actually , uh , Addictingly mediocre , mediocre .
Yeah , They've put crack or something , i don't know what they do in there .
But yeah , but it's . Is it reflective of , of , of who you are and who you're trying to become ?
Well , i think that's what I love . I love and hate it . I like get bored of death with low . I like brand talk a lot of times , but in the heat of it , when you're really doing introspective , looking into what you're trying to put out there , i think you learn a lot of new stuff about you as a church or as a business or whatever it would be .
But , um , it makes you kind of say , well , why are we doing these things ? What , like , is this really our market ? Is this , uh , being effective ? Like what we're doing , what is working , what's not working .
And I think it helps you kind of re re , i mean , hopefully fire up for your community and your church and what you're doing a little bit , because then you start to learn it more a little bit you know , instead of just floating for years you know , because a lot of that you just start forgetting who your , your market really is , or who people , what they're
connecting with . Um , that's the best part about it , i think to me , like even going through stuff today , like just reiterating some of the things , like trying to come up with keywords and stuff we were trying to do , it's just like oh yeah , we are .
you know , these are kind of hitting our marks right now where we're at in our stages And it's a good reminder where you're at .
¶ Branding and Finding Your Niche
Uh yeah , branding again , it's not just the logo , it's everything , it's the like what is your vision , what is your mission ? What are your values ? What , what makes you distinct , what , what , what . What makes you like ? why would people want to come and be a part of your community ? Not saying you're , you're competing for the same people , kind of are .
But the like , what , what makes you distinct that might be able to reach a certain group of people That's not going to be reached by somebody else ? right , because every church is necessary , whether you think they're ridiculous or not , they're all necessary . We don't need less churches , we need more churches .
Um , but what makes you distinct to be able to reach a group of people that is not being reached by other churches in town ? Which is the question ? right , because I think a lot of times , the bigger churches , they're all competing , they all look the same , they act the same , they dress the same .
Sound the same .
They sound the same . Um , it's like cold play . And then a pastor with skinny jeans and like a crop top leather jacket and , uh , like four affairs .
Sounds like you're describing like a Barbie . Kendall accessories , you know .
Yeah , i mean , it's basically kind of what , but they're all like , they all have very similar stuff and but there there is room . There are a ton of people that do not want to go to that church , just like there are a ton of people who do not want to go to a Catholic church , an Episcopalian church or Lutheran church .
But there , those churches are necessary in reaching people . What niche do you fit into and can you reflect that in your branding ? Because people are visual , they're going to be Googling , they're going to be seeing Facebook , they're going to be attracted on some . You have to . That's the other thing in our day and age .
You have to be able to reach people where they are , and back in the day it would have been join the social club . Today it's social media online , tik Tok , whatever . So how how can you get someone to pause for just a second more on your profile ? Because that's where they are , you know .
Yeah , yeah , i think I mean , and other than be like our pastor as a shave chest and six back abs .
But and loves ladies , yeah .
I think , I think intentionality is the biggest keyword to me .
Or boys . Oh , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah .
Yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah . I think that's the post commons , right ? Yeah , we've talked about it maybe once or twice on the podcast , but it's a place that we like , the general like , i guess .
Idea .
Brandon Yeah , but there is insanely simplistic , it's literally just their words in probably Helvetica .
No idea .
My guess is Helvetica .
Yeah , but .
But basically and that's the brand they put out It's simple , clean . You know nothing you'd be like of a tarantissue .
what do they use ? Papyrus , that's all they use . is just papyrus for the first one ? I mean no they probably paid a designer shit ton of money to put papyrus In blue letters .
In blue letters , yeah , or they didn't , and they made it themselves and then they got done and they were like eff , that's papyrus .
Like
¶ Church Branding and Representation
they made the whole . Actually I like that story a lot better . And now people are like , hey , that looks cool man . And then like later yeah , Yeah , they get done and they're like oh , Son of a Son of a .
Oh shoot , that's comic sans Side tangent .
My oldest son wants to . He was like because all his friends watch Avatar . So he was like can we watch Avatar ? And I'm like ugh , i guess we started it the other night and I forgot how long it is Long and how like not good it is . Like the visually it's pretty good . It was good in 2012 whenever it came out .
It's not so great anymore , but it's like oh , it's Fern Gully and Pocahontas .
You're a weird baby , correct ? I loved Fern .
Gully .
What are the things I was gonna say ? Is , i think , something that can get left out from the from brand when you're considering branding a church , if you're treating it as like that business approach that you can , we can easily leave God or Jesus out of the messaging And to people shouldn't have to scroll to understand that you're like a Jesus centered church .
You know what I mean . Like I think you can . You can land on someone like a I'm trying to think of , like a bigger , i don't know church , like a where they just say like you belong here . Or or yeah , what there was was like welcome home or you know , any of those type of things , like I think there's some .
It again makes it more about the people than about God and our faith , right , like .
So I think that's something that to be aware of , like as you're having conversations with these , if you're in a place of leadership , where you are at the table , where people are talking about church branding because my guess is this may not be applicable , super , i mean , again , we are talking about this strictly because it is very much where we are at the
moment And so if you got away through this and it's not very applicable to you , thanks for listening .
But , also , I think , being aware of like if you're , if you're church shopping , that's something to like be looking at , But also if you are part of a church and you notice the leaning towards self self instead of God in the branding , like if our messaging is .
Yeah , like anyone and everyone .
Yeah And like of course everyone is welcome . Every church should say that , but that isn't .
The focus .
What are you pursuing as a church Or what are you ? and maybe you scroll enough and you get to the values and you start seeing some faith and stuff . But I think it'd be a little bit more effective to lead with that .
Yeah Right , i don't know . I mean , that's just a personal thought , but It's the hyper individualistic culture where if you're , if you're , it's every . Okay , real talk . Every church is trying to get butts in seats . Every church like Duh , that's every church .
Unless you're real , but you love just preaching at one person . Yeah .
Or you've got decades worth of money .
Yeah , decades worth of money . It doesn't matter . In the pastor it could be like I don't care , i'm getting paid 150 grand , doesn't matter .
Yeah , you know .
And they have a full staff of people don't do anything But the . So every church is trying to get people in And I think if you're looking at the branding , like Jen said , if you're looking at the branding , and it's and there's nothing really about , hey , we're just people trying to follow Jesus And everyone can be , everyone is invited to join in that journey .
If that's not , if that's not blatantly clear , if it's literally just about can we get you to come to this party , then you gotta raise some eyebrows . Some questions .
Yeah , i think , because branding that the word , i think it can put a bad taste in people's mouth because they think of it negatively . Right , at least as far as churches are concerned . But if we look at it instead as it's the church's first line of communication with people , that's not so like business-y sounding but it's .
If this is the first time someone's experiencing a church .
It's the very first thing they , they , they talk about you .
Yeah , and so you know the word branding is very business . It's very much like a marketing term . People tie it to like money , whatever . But I think when we look at it from a church perspective , it's just people have to find you somehow and the brand is their first experience with you .
Well , often- .
Unless they walk by your church building and just wander inside , And then at that point your brand is inside the building anyway . So it's your leadership , it's your congregation , it's the community , it's the culture of your building , of your church , not your building of your church .
I think the other thing whether or not this involves you or not , as far as decision-making and brands or whatever , i don't know , you're obviously who , you are listening to this , but you typically , again as an attendee of church , are also part of that church's brand , whether you know it or not .
So , like I used to work for Target a long time ago and the whole thing was you are the brand even outside of work . So if you yeah , I know . Target , but I mean that's in theory more so . True to churches is saying you represent something . Oh yeah , it's way more true for churches All the time .
Yeah , i know Target , i was like , yeah , middle finger you , but the churches , though , i think is more of a representation . If you are living out your church not living out your church , living out your faith on a day-to-day basis , you're representing that place .
And I mean you can go to any church and like if 60 year olds only walk out of the building , you're like , oh , that's that brand of that church .
It's just they're hitting that market of 60 plus And , whether or not you know it , you are representing that brand to a point , you can go to some churches in Portland and it's the hippie-dippy church that's all about arts and this and that It's a brand .
it's what it is Or the drag queen church .
That's the thing . It is a thing .
Drag queen Bible reading .
I mean for a long time even still , i think people still refer to us as the beer church Because we've met at a brewery for so long . Things like that . It goes with the brand , like what you put out there , whether you mean to or not , it's not always a choice or decision .
Some people just latch on to things and be like , oh , you're XYZ church because of XYZ .
Well , the funny thing is we have somebody who shares an office with us , who I think the vibe of our church is . because we're young generally And a little bit into the arts and a little bit like sub dude , people automatically think we're like Ultra liberal Thing . it's like they don't believe in the Bible .
It's like that's no , that's not , but that that's the danger of the , the brand .
It's like oh , you have to listen to this podcast . No , we don't believe .
We had somebody's like do you guys even read the Bible ? I was like , okay .
We read it in three versions on Sunday , okay , oh , yeah , actually yeah , it's like Whatever , but it's true .
I you know we can talk brand for a long time . I don't think we need to push this one out too far , but I think that's something to keep in mind , though , is whether or not you are part of those decision-making Of the church and your and their brand you are still part of that brand .
That's represented get in here , leap .
It's , fully it's .
Philippe , it is our Philippe . Philippe just walked in . hey , philippe , just real quick . I do listen to this podcast and I have a lot to talk about on every topic . If you knew , fully Piazza , let's talk about every topic , every topic oh .
He'll be on the pocket quick Popeye to say hi , how do you get in ? Just like busted the door open Reminds me a break open if you know where we're at . You can always do a Popeye Anyway he go , walked him over here .
Oh did he yeah , cuz he goes in the window and then , i think , said oh , they're recording and then I gave him the one minute finger , thinking we were . Wrapping up and then we just want , let him in .
We were wrapping . We were wrapping up just drop by .
Anymore leaf drops by . But I like that , i don't , but I do .
He dropped by my house once randomly . He just found my address . He said he almost popped by . The other day I was like just shoot me .
Like a five minute . Are you home ? I want to come by Let me put some pants on yeah .
Like Jeff left . Our friend Jeff He's by the pocket Jeff Swanson . He left , like one of the our study books for the thing we do At the house and he tells me I left it . You know where I'm right outside , i left it . Yeah , okay , come and get it . I was like , well , let me put on pants .
I Everybody left . I left my water at your house and I told you I was coming over to get it after , cuz you know I can't live without my water cup .
I forgot about that and you forgot .
And then , mike I answered the door like Confused why are you here ? And then you keep around the corner like oh right .
Okay , anyway , back to that , the branding side of things . We can , we can bore you to death with this .
I guess I thought think of it less like a business brand and think of it more as Communication with people that are that are seeking a church or seeking answers to , yeah faith questions that they have .
Like you are communicating with them So that they are informed when they , if they choose , to come visit , right , because I think , if we think of it as shoving a brand in their face , it is like it does feel businessy , it does feel Disingenuine , it does feel a lot of negative connotation towards branding .
Because I think people are like Just put off , can be very put off by like heavy marketing within the church , without realizing that like then the day we Church costs money and we , so there is a part of this that is , we do have to market what we have available for people , and if we don't , we just make money .
Yeah , I mean we .
But that's what's saying . That's why we have to market what we have available for people . But a healthy church should also be saying like the point of this is so that we're able to reach others , so that we're able to bless people , so that we're able to be fiscally responsible with what we're given .
But all of those things can't happen without people who are Investing in the , in that community , financially , with their time , with their you know what , their resources , whatever . But specifically , like church takes money to operate and we're not given money . It's not like every church is given a check by the government to go run things .
Yeah , and that's true of any nonprofit like they have to make . They have to make money , even if they're . Their true purpose is to do good , and that means they have to be able to effectively communicate who they are And what they do . Yeah and that's the purpose of branding .
Yep yeah boom and , for the next episode , the biggest of church brands . We're talking about it again .
Is that gonna come ?
out first We can put it out either way , but probably We should maybe do it first . So last the last Last week's episode Work recording , trying to record two and one day had the trends , you know , but yeah , so , as As we said before , you know it's boring as hell to some people , and but it's , it's very necessary .
Yeah , i feel like So even if you're not on that the board of people deciding those things it still affects you .
It's good to be aware of Yeah , yeah , see what's getting put out there . Yep , anyway , um , that is that . That's about branding . So , uh , we'll leave it at that .
Will we .
Question your pastor , question your faith , question your church , question your brand question .
Everything your sexuality . Are you trying to tell us something right ? Pride month , happy pride month . So the pride for people . There you go .
All right , keep asking questions in the meantime . I am Jesse , I'm Evan .
I'm Jen , follow us on social media Oh , oh oh .
I didn't do any of that , amen .
I'll also . You know where to find us . It's fine , christian , they have podcast . You hear it . Next time buy us a drink . Thanks Amen .