Leadership and Hiring Trends

and technology industries. Alice is an expert on human capital and leadership and I'm excited to tackle these subjects and others with her today. Thanks for joining us, Alice. Why is it being great to see? Great to see you as always? So, uh, let's just jump right in. I recently read that CEO turnover is a fifty two year over year, so in our coverage area and out of the companies that we could cover, Domino's, Darden, Denny's, Breaker, Wingstop,

and Starbucks CEOs all have resigned or retired recently. Our executives just burnt out after two very difficult years in the restaurant industry, or there's something else motivated motivating them to Milan. So it's a great question, and here's what I would tell you what we're seeing and obviously you know what we know. So first of all, anytime there's change, there's always questions and there's a lot of with that opportunities and UM wonderment is to really is there something

going on behind the scenes. And I would tell you that relative to CEO turnover specifically, I think you really have to look uniquely at each case. There's going to naturally be retirements and that has nothing to do with what happened in and beyond. There is you know, just the chronological aspect of people feeling that it is time

they've done their great work. I would also tell you that, um, and this was pre certainly we've seen this also over the last a few years, there was also from a board perspective, new opportunities to kind of look at what might be you know, different talent. It doesn't mean better or worse, it may just being different skill sets that maybe weren't as an evidence or needed, you know, just four or five years ago. So I think we're seeing

a whole lot of things. We're seeing some CEOs that are outen to go to different verticals because remember now it is really just the orbit. It is no longer being a specific you know, in one discipline per sage, really being the overarching business person whose skill set can be relatable. And we see that very much in the consumer space interacting with consumers and all the unit and all those things, and obviously franchises very big now we

see it where absolutely your point. There are some instances where people feel, look, I have given my best work and it is time. And I think if there's something that the last number of years showing all of us, it is that there are other elements of life that perhaps we had not we unintentionally overlooked that came on the forefront. So there are people that is said, I don't have to do this. I choose to do this. But with that I wanted a little bit of a

different landscape. And that's fine. Many just really want to sit on boards, and there are definitely instances where you know, boards and it's a mutual decision in many cases as well, where someone just says it's time. Yeah, it's great, um, and it actually gives me a lot of additional directions that we can go on and as an interview, so i'd imagine what the economy is slowing, you know, people may may consider getting back to work. Now, So how

is the hiring landscape today? From where you say? Um, yes, so I can tell you what we see. Our practice is really more c suite just being retained firm that we are. But we obviously have you know, a broad breaths heere of influence and see a lot. It has quieted down the difficulty of attracting people to come back to work. The bigger, the bigger opportunity, right, so the

lists hopefully always want to fill it up. Is that what are some of these organizations doing to attract the best talent they can in a very very very competitive space. So what we're hearing, what we're seeing because obviously we're in touch with CEOs and you know see level exefecutives

at every moment in a variety of verticals. Um, is that there It is still difficult to attract tremendous talent, but the responsibility and the opportunity of companies to do a few extra things to court the talent has really become front center. So there really is all intents and purposes from what you know, we say what I think, it's definitely a talent war, but there is more of a landscape in which to choose from. You just have to be it's competitive, but you have to come in

with some of those extra things. So I can give you just a couple of examples. You know, whether it is um you know, contests and people are winning prizes, whether it is paying more money and wage, whether it is you know, more class as English as a second language. I mean, all these things count. Is and it is as much the communication and the feeling of culture and

being part of an overarching brand beyond the job. Because the other side of it is when we look at the person who's looking to take an opportunity, they want to feel that they have a chance, that they are respected, and I think that's a really important you know, I want to say it again, that they are respected. Everybody wants to have a voice and feel that they have an opportunity to do something, perhaps whether it's through learning or be with the right management team that shows some

other things. Maybe it's flexibility of work hours, Maybe it's the opportunity to pre plan a schedule and to have more of a life instead of just being hold and told you have to come in. All these things count when someone makes the choice as to where they're doing them. Yeah, that's that's uh, it's great, and it's something that a lot of our companies have been speaking to for some time, but especially for the last couple of years. And it's critical, right,

we know restaurant performances tied closely to g M turnover. Right, our friends a Black Books Intelligence have done some nice work on that topic. So very important for these restaurants to be able to hit their full potential. And I would also add to that, but today a general manager, you know, there was a time you were a general manager and you executed and you did what you had to do. Today, with technology, you have to be a manager. You have to be a friend, you have to be

you know, a financial wizard. I mean, you have to be a business person. And so the skill set is really different. And the companies that embrace that and also give training are the ones that don't have the turnover long term because it allows the general managers to feel even if they want to stay as a general manager, which is, by the way, is a wonderful thing to do too. No one said that everyone has to be

a senio or optical in the corporate setting. Um, but these are skills that people will have for the rest of their life. Yeah, for sure. And uh, you know, from where I said, I've personally really enjoyed watching some of these chains that have an entrepreneurial type of of uh set up for their gms. Right that old outback steakhouse model that's been adopted now by Texas Roadhouse and it's been I think such a critical piece to their success.

And Torches Tacos has been implementing that you know, ownership piece where expert cent of profits. Um, you know there's basically a profit sharing incentive for the gms. You know, that model seems to work really well. As you know, it seems to attract the right types of gms, people that are willing to work hard, and um, you know, any any comments about that type of structure and why maybe we don't see that in more restaurant chains. So,

I know, I acho in your comments. I think, you know, theoretically it's a great model and practically it works in the right sitting. Not all companies could do with it.

And when you mentioned entrepreneurial, look there also a lot of company is that you know, and not yet at that point of having the capability and the financial wherewithal to do that, which only makes them have to be that much more creative to structure something to allow their general managers to feel that they have a chance about and beyond the actual job and financially feel that they

have opportunities. But there's no question that the companies that embrace their general managers and allow them to feel that they are truly part of the organization and give them that financial opportunity, their tenure, you know, and their turnover certainly is much lower. But the model actually is not for everyone. There are some people that they just want to do a great job and they don't want the responsibility. And we see that too right from far. We definitely

see that too. That's what makes up the mosaic of life. Yeah, for sure, there's definitely a lot of people that prefer more corporate gig versus you know, um scratching and clawing through the entrepreneurial right. Um, so let's shift here's a little bit. How are people How do people feel about going back to the office hybrid work? You know, for the executives that used speak to um, where do they fall on the topic. So we're seeing it's all over

the map. And personally to me, it's like fascinating to observe and to experience, you know, amongst many or clients and those that aren't even clients. So in the consumer industry, it is very hard to be successful and not be

present because you're interacting with people all day long. There is a school of thought, um, and we've seen this, you really need to come back and at least hybrid at least three days a week to validate you camaraderie and to validate you know, continuation of plans and consistency and really driving goals. There are also a number of companies just by virtual by the size philosophy. They don't want to lose who they deem to be, you know,

great teams, and they've given them extraordinary flexibility. I think we've seen that with technology, which is much more advanced, that there is an intimacy and things can get accomplished. But I would tell you that what we hear, and I'm not putting my own personal judgment on this, is that there is a movement specifically in the restaurant space

to be present and to be respectful. That maybe it's not five days, but at the very least, how do you ask someone to be out in the field, if the corporations themselves aren't emulating that in their own culture, it's a really hard balance. And you know, it's a very complicated topic. Not that everyone has has the way

withal of having someone necessarily at home. Remember, we went through a period of time wherever people were also watching their children or elderly parents, whatever their unique situation may be, and they were working from home, and it hasn't always been easy to dupl hang now that you know, things are back to normal, quote unquote, it's a very complicated topic. Um, but I would tell you that the companies that we're in touch with are being respectful to show flexibility, but

definitely want presence. Yeah, and imagine more so for the hospitality industry than other industries as well, right, because at the store level it's such a team based culture, right, and um, you know, I think it is important for that to permeate throughout the organization. So it's just interesting the dichonomy between like restaurants versus tech companies, which are saying some of them are saying they'll never go back

to the office, right, Yeah, you're not as needed. I mean, look, first of all, you cannot be in any consumer facing business, particularly hospitality, when the world play is you have to want to work. So it's in the d n A. I mean, and even if you come from other industries, and you know, we can talk about that. Many people came from other industries in the hospitality and then you

leave hospitality and go to other industries. But if they're going to be present in hospitality, leadership is so crucial and critical. It is a really tough job at every level level. It's not even it's beyond the general managers, make no mistake about it. We have never seen so much stress, deservingly um then the last few years of executives,

awesome executives in the corporate level, it's hard. How do you serve so many masters and also take care of yourself recognizing that at every moment the world is sounpredictable and there's a health component, so you know, the the communication and the touch and the building culture. Of the other thing is when you talk about turnover, if you're not present, it's harder to have to build loyalty. I mean, it's common sense. How do you really build loyalty if

people aren't together. So the opportunity and I'll put on my executive search had now the opportunity and the willingness to entertain other things and to really think as much what you want to do beyond the mission of where you choose to be. It's all greater if you don't have some kind of in person mutings. Yeah, and that loyalty is so important, and it works both ways, right, It's loyalty to the organization as well as loyalty to

the employee. Right, might be a lot easier to hire somebody if you've never actually met them face might hire a fire fine, might be easier to fire somebody if you've never actually met them face to face. Right, So yeah, but the only thing I would say to that might two as well. You're absolutely right, But you know, and this is one thing technology has allowed. The technology is allowed a lot of amazing things. But you know there was a time, right, you call somebody, you send them

a letter. You know, today communication all you need is one person to send out on their iPhone that they had a bad experience. I mean, you see this all the time in the newspaper. Someone gets on the zoom and randomly fires you know, x amount of people will do you think people are gonna want to go work with our organization? People have so many choices today, and it is certainly financial, but it is also way beyond financial. It is believing in the organization. What are their principles?

You know, you're a lot about diversity for all the right reasons e s g. You know, of course pollination. Do I have a checkchance to learn new skills? Which the company's commitment to me? You have to be present sometimes to really be able to execute that plan, for sure. So let's get a little bit more into what you do. Um as you know the executive search firm, you know, in our business not even a close second. Obviously, you

do a great job of identifying great talent. Can you talk a little bit a little bit about what you're looking for in a great leader? So I love the question. Um you know, there's part science and it's part art. And I would also just want to say that being a leader again doesn't mean that you have to be the sole leader in an organization. We all leave different aspects of our life and that's the beauty of what

we all choose to do. So, you know, certainly we look very much technically the way that we do that in our firm, and part of that is just the I want to give my colleagues tremendous credit furness. It is the longevity of tenure in at the Eliot group that allows us to not have drama. Internally. We are really very focused externally to those people that in a nondiscriminatory and fashion that we choose to represent our clients. But we we in a nondiscriminatory fashion from a data

and analytics dance, public companies, project companies. We have an ability and as part of the magic source here at Eliot, to really demonstrate and follow someone's track record of success and really understand who are they, what have they accomplished, what have they done? How are they instrumental? How are they spot out by people appears by people that report to them and that people that they report too. And you know, we do that year after year after year,

always aggregating and meeting new people. Um so there's a technical component and in our orbit we meet people. So you know, as you know, we know thousands of people and we take a lot of pride in that. And it doesn't mean that you know the first the conversation can't be on the telephone or something. But it is very very rare that we haven't actually broke bread and met someone in lucked eyes to really understand the essence

of the person. The other thing I will tell you where it comes to leadership is that there and it's an over you know, it's an overused words sometimes, but we look for someone number one who has deep humility. There's a very fine line between being confident and cocky, so we are very prone to go to someone who is confident but not cocky, that they have a sense

of humility, they have story. Ideally they will have made a mistake that they can talk about what have they learned from, what have they done in the course of their career that has caused them to maybe of course correct learn from it, take a different direction, that they in their own right would be a coaching mentor and have had that experience, and that they also are an extraordinarily well rounded business person beyond any vertical of experience.

And that's really important. I mean to today we know globally right so internationally you know technolologically, and we know from the supply chain stands purchasing all data, analytics or operations, everything marketing, digital, and go on and on financial all the elements that go into someone being a leader, that they are well rounded, do we feel that they can make an indelible impact and recognize it's the greater good

of the organization. Also being in if it's a public company or a private company and they're reporting to a board and interacting with the board, that they not only be able to seek OUTRGE talent, but they'd be trumendous transparent communicators to be able to have a trust based relationship, especially with shareholders, whether it's in a public or private sudden, and we work a lot with equity groups as you would imagine, UM, and you know, they want to understand

what's going on. They don't want to run the organizations, but they want leaders who will communicate and be very honest. Yeah, it's so important for all relationships, right, And that's such an interesting insightful answer, you know. But humility and emotional intelligence are are so important I think when you're when

you're leading teams and and um leading an organization. UM So, I think he touched on this on one of your first answers, but you know, I know that for a long time there's kind of this thought that people that leaders have to come from a particular industry to PC accessible. What do you think about that in today's market. I don't think it's true in today's market, with very few exceptions.

I mean, we were, you know, if someone is going to have a scientific specificity, for example in agricultural organic growth, they need that background, right, And we've seen that too, by the way. I mean they're because obviously we do work in the CpG space and like but I would say overwortingly, it has changed tremendously. I think in some instances depends where the company needs. You know, sometimes an organization might they need someone that is really a turnaround specialist.

Sometimes it's a growth oriented leader with an the crisp eye towards critical thinking and strategy, and they specifically want the window and the lens of other experiences. I will tell you in our practice of the Eliot Group, we show the window is very important to us, regardless of the assignment, with obviously client approval, that we show the bandwidth of aligned industries, different kinds of people, in addition to obviously university being an important foundation part of our firm.

But I don't personally think that someone always has to come uniquely from an industry. And when you look at the entity of the executive, part of what we do is look at the depth and the scope of what they've accomplished. So maybe it is a restaurant assignment. Perhaps the person started out in the restaurant industry, Perhaps they morphed into retail, maybe they then went into grocery. So we look at all of it and our you know,

not only our track record. Um, but I would tell you that the response and success rate of having someone who is a well rounded business person, you know, I would say it is more greater than someone that is strictly one dimensional. Yeah, I guess to that point, right, it's easier to learn an industry than it is to be a leader. I think, right, you can't a ten leadership can be learned, whereas you know, actually anyone can

learn to be a better leader. But I think the certain aspects of it that people are kind of born with. Whereas when you you know, pretty much anyone can learn in the industry that makes it make take some time.

But well, you have you know you first of all, you want to learn the secondly, you know, great leaders hire great people and it doesn't mean that, you know, so if there's an area, none is perfect at anything, and that goes back to being self aware as a leader and being you know, humble and recognizing, you know, here's my core competencies and here are some areas that you know, we hear a lot. Someone may say, you know,

having a very strong CFO would be very helpful. Understand it. No, it can speak to it can certainly hold my own, but having that partner to help me anticipate financial trends is important. So I would say that, you know, if hiring the right team um is always important and for those that are not from the industry, bringing in a new way of thinking. You know, we've seen a lot of instances, and we've been very involved in a lot of instances of someone who's just really coming from a

different industry or a different perch of thinking. And that's really healthy too for organizations, because sometimes it's just not healthy for a company to always do the same thing day in and day out the same way. It's very hard to be competitive and wined and ever change in the landscape. Very true, all right, So are there more opportunities for women and the first candidates today than you know,

maybe a few years back. I love that question. You know, Yes, I think that UM company look people, you know, we've studied this obviously in our firm has been on the forefront. You know, we're part of the Diversity Council, we were co founders twenty five years ago and the Multi Cultural Food Service Hospitality Alliance. So it's been important part of the ethos of this great brandilliant group. There's always been opportunities.

I think the great news is that UM you know, it's much more visible and there are definitely more opportunities. I think part of it is, you know, because we study this. I think part of it is being connisant and working hard both the organizations. This is not related as much search to always want to look at a landscape that may be different than what one had originally

anticipated or experienced. So there are definitely more opportunities. UM. I would say sometimes it's almost on the board, right, there's a lot of board opportunities now. UM. But I would also say as well that the right companies want to hire the right people at the right time, and

the right people want to get hired for the right reasons. Yeah, well, I want to get credit to you because since I've known you in the last five years, you've introduced me to so many female and um minority leaders that are absolutely fantastic. So I know really has been a leader. Thank you. Um So, how are these executives choosing which companies that they want to work for? It's a great question. Um, let's never negate the fact that financial isn't important to people.

And I think, you know, particularly coming out of the last few years, financials even more important because a lot of people lost a lot of money and a lot of you know, no fold of their owner was just circumstantial, right equity and to get it. Um, I think, so here here's something that's kind of different. There was a time people had one opportunity. Today people have four or five opportunities, regardless of how they get them. And I

think people are choosing number one. It's more important. They're choosing what works to their life and their personal life. Not everyone wants to move anymore. And this is you know, all consumer industry and law of other industries. I know this is you know, it could be in the automotive industry. And actually when we work in the automotive industry, so don't want you know, you just picked up and moved today.

People they don't want to relocate. There's been such a trauma that they know where they are and un listen something that they really aspire to doing for the right financial and opportunity, they're not going to go. And that's not even a hybrid work. That's like I'll maybe travel twice a week, but I don't want it to struct my family, particularly about going to be traveling anyway in an industry that always has to be to travel. So

they want flexibility. They want to know that they're going to make the right money, that they have a seat at the table, but a genuine seat at the table, that they like what they're working with, and they believe that the organizations that they go to for whatever is important to them really walks the walk, whether it's being philanthropic, whether it is diversity, you know, whether it is that

they are you know, good citizens of the earth. And it's an industry that they, you know, are very action and about. Maybe someone loves sports and it speaks to them, you know, God for something. But there was much more. There was a much more demand on behalf of the executive than ever before. Yeah. I think the pandemic has, you know, forced a lot of people to realize what's really important. I think family, a lot of people realize that they were missing out on a lot of great

So flexibility has definitely become more important. I can frame this view. We do. We do a lot of vncifility. We recently had an Eventcifilio that was very majestic. There were no less than five five leaders who brought but one of their children who are under the age of seventeen. And you know, you could look at that many ways, but a great way to look at that because we were thrilled, you know, they asked, were thrilled and this

was a fantasy event. You had to get dressed. Um. It also demonstrated number one, the exposure respect they had to their child. But when I looked around that room and I saw that, I also saw that her relationships that were probably cemented in a different way over the last couple of years. And the parent or the you know, whatever it was, you know, the guardian, whatever it may have been, was saying, I want you to see what

I do. I want you to see what I do because you may have hurt me on a zoom, but now come meet, which I thought was really cool. Yeah, that's great, that's great, and uh, nobody feels a party like you. Thank you. Um. All right, so we're almost

out of time. So one last question. I know that's a little bit out of your wheelhouse, but you know from where we're from what we're hearing that the consumers has been slowing from the last few weeks, you know, inflation, the crash in crypto and the stock bear market that we we've entered over and we've entered into in the last few weeks. So what's what's your read on the economy, your dealings with restaurants and other consumer companies when we track all of the sidili by the way, so you

know we track all of it. We you know, we're not economists, but we have a finger on the policy. We're very well connected. So I appreciate the question. It's a connection for us. And I'll tell you why we're very active with chief development officer assignments. You don't hire chief development leaders, you know, and pay them very well

if you don't plan on having aggressive growth. Many of that and you know, we know that the franchise space is imploding in every aspect of consumer So that's very interesting to us when we really um, you know, continue to look at it and then we have some assignments that or very upscale, very upscale, keep it all hotel brands. So there is an expectation that travel will continue. Um I I personally do not think that we're going to go into a deeper session based upon conversations that I

have had. I want to prefaces that I'm not a financial specialist. I think that there is going to continue to be um some movement, and I think there's going to be some challenges for sure. I think, you know, gas prices, we're going to prohibit people from perhaps doing what they would have hoped to have done. But I do think and we're hearing this a lot. You know,

the party has restarted. People are come back out, and you know, even in places beyond the urban area, so forget about New York City, which has packed every night, and I was talking about you know, all over the country. It's going to be an adjustment and I think we're going to see a lot of ups and downs. But I personally don't think there's going to be a crash. And I think historically everything that ultimately goes down, including crypto and blockchain and all of that. Personally, I think

we'll ultimately go up. I also think, and this is just my own Alice Elliott new I do think there will be a digital currency. It may not be in the next three months, but I do think that when there's some regulation around it. And Gary Gains who puts that in, um, I think it's only going to memorialize it is real two people that today may question it very cool. Um, So some good news at the end

of this. Yeah, I I really I can tell you we are very when I tell you that we are extraordinarily um busy, and it is you know, in the restaurant space, I would say, in the beauty space and the lifestyle and the fitness space, we are very, very busy. And I think that there is you know, people who are watching, and people are cautious, of course, but I think people really want to see things win. Yeah, for sure.

And and to some of your points, you know, I would say that there's definitely that pent up demand for travel, so um, we definitely see see I don't see anyone canceling their travel plans this summer exactly. And great food I mean, people really want to go live lot if I think you know people, we always knew that. Um, you know, we always knew this, and we've always specialized

in the lifestyle brands and all of that. But the opportunity to be appreciative and have that experience, and I think there's a there's a recognition that things can change on a dime. So enjoy, be thoughtful, but enjoy and be grateful for sure, it's a key to happiness. Well, with that, we're gonna wrap it up. You're an absolute version. Thanks grateful for you, thank you, rateful freaking us well, thanks for joining us on to get podcast again. I'd love to thank you.