Welcome to Chopping It Up. I'm your host, Mike Hanlon, the senior Restaurant food Service Analysts at Bloomberg Intelligence. Our research and that a bi's five hundred analysts around the globe can be found exclusively on the Bloomberg terminal. Enjoy the pod. I'd love it if you could leave us a review on Apple or Spotify. Today I'm joined by Joe Keith Appert. Joe is a founding partner of a Line Public Strategies, a full service public affairs and creative firm.
He's the host of the Working Lunch podcast and my go to source for all things public policy. Thanks for returning to the podcast, Joe.
Mike, it is great to be here on Chopping It Up. I always love being on it, always love listening to it.
So you do a great job.
Thanks man, I appreciate it, and check out Joe's pod. He does a great job man, of really getting in the weeds is some of the regulatory issues that our industry is facing. Man, it's really good stuff.
I recently received an award as the most boring podcast. Uh, I'm very proud of that.
I disagree, man, you know, because we hear about stuff on the on the on the federal level level. Right, but unless it's things are happening in our state, and you know, we tend not to hear about it. So it's good to hear from from you and your co host about, uh, you know, what's what's coming down the pip, what we're seeing in some of the other states. So is the worst of the tariff show down behind us?
You know, anyone that has ever been in the business of trying to predict what this president is going to do is broke.
So you don't know.
But you know, Michael, the the the the collision between politics and policy is often brutal, and especially populist politics, and so.
It takes a while well for the reality to catch you up to the rhetoric. And I think tariffs is a perfect example of that. Obviously, the president campaign in large, you know, in large part on this kind of strategy, and he is, you know, fulfilated this narrative that somehow we're on the short end of all these trade deals and and so forth, and we need to right the right the ship. And then conversely, you know, people argue that, well, he just uses this kind of as a chess piece.
It's part of a broader game.
He's trying to get concessions on the form policy or whatever that may be. Right, So regardless of where you fall down on that, there are some real world implications for folks. Obviously in the restaurant industry is having a conversation earlier. You know, we're the we're the caboosts on a big, long train, and the egg industry is the front of that train, and the restaurant industry is the
caboost of that train. And if in front of that train is suffering or derails, man, we're we're sure to follow. And so I worry about the tariffs on the ag community, especially with regard to interestingly enough, not stuff we import with stuff we export. So much of American agriculture exported Michael. Today, as a matter of fact, we're taping this today.
The New York.
Times has a their daily podcast and they're interviewing a soybean and corn farmer from Iowa, and she said about fifty five percent of her total product and her peer group all goes to China. And so you talk about the marketplace and what happens, and you know, agribusiness now it's floating, especially the family farms floating on loans, and it's a future's business, and there's.
All tons of uncertainties in agg anyway.
And then you add all of this and the ramifications, there's no good there's no good thing that comes out of it. I do think, you know, this week we saw the CEOs of the big retail, big boxes, Walmart, targets and mothers go into the White House and they basically said, look at present, we get, we get what you're trying to do here, but understand the ramifications are, in about two weeks, you're gonna start to see a lot of empty store shelves as a supply chain uh dries up.
And that's going to be relayed on your lap politically, right.
And and you saw later that day he comes out and pumps the brakes on a bunch of tariff stuff, right, And it's it's it's it's when that reality sets in and when his political base, which is a large part of corporate America, the AD community, start to go, hey, all fun and games until it's not. And we're getting to the point where it's it's kind of really not. And you know, everybody, our whole, our whole political system our economic system, foreign policy, whatever it is, is based on stability.
Right.
It's an under it's a foundational billing block, and everything to do is stability. We want to be predictive, We want to understand what's going to happen the next quarter, the next year, the next year, whatever that may be. And instability is not good for anybody. So I don't say that it's behind us totally to get to get to the root of your question, but I do think kind of the worst of that is kind of played
out of its system. He's gotten the political energy out of it for the constituents he wanted to get the energy out of it with Right, and now it's time to kind of go okay, and so he can't completely back off of it to save face. But you see every he continues to delay or pump the brakes and then politically claim victory right, and his constituency says, well, we won that conversation with China or Canada or Mexico.
So there's really almost no.
Political price to be paid for it until there's an economic price for the country, and then he will he will wear that.
Well, that's good to hear man. Do you think reciprocal tariffs can lead to fewer global tariffs over time. I now we've seen some of our partners say they pull back on their tariffs. You know, obviously Trump that wasn't enough for the Trump administration. They will also want to see maybe less subsidies and different tax treatment. What are your thoughts on that?
Yeah, listen, you never know how a country is going to react.
I was actually kind of surprised, not so much with the Chinese, but certainly Europe, the EU and Canada. They didn't just fold over, right, And I think when you're playing this game, you don't know how they're going to.
Respond to They just acquiesced.
And we saw a couple of Latin American countries kind of acquiesce, but we didn't see that in other the bigger trading partners across the world. And so I think the short term thing is again separating politics and policy to actpt policy outcomes.
It's a zero sum game. The only the only person.
That really loses in the whole thing as American consumer, right, And so you know that's cool until it's not cool anymore. So I think you're going to see a a flare ups and spaces flare ups at times, but an overall pumping of the breaks slowly over time, so you can still kind of politically have appear to have the high ground on it. It'll flare up again in probably June of twenty twenty twenty six, about six months before the midterm elections because as political juice, and we'll start having
this conversation again. So I don't I don't mean it sounds so cynical, but I think that the headlines and the stories kind of back up what I'm saying is where where we were six weeks ago and where we are now is a very different time. And I think that's trajectory will continue over the next six to six weeks to six months.
Yeah, it's fascinating to watch. I mean, there's there's no way you're gonna shift from a system that has always prioritized capital over labor, you know, to kind of flip that on its head and not expect some bumps in the road. So definitely keeping meat busy man that it is.
And you know, if I'm the CEO of a major company that you're that you're that you're covering, you know, I I know we have long term agreements in place with certain certainly a suppliers, but I'm you know, the market, not to get too much into your sandbox, but certainly the market rewards growth, and growth is in part predicated on a access to capital instability or in that market, and be equipment, access to equipment. A lot of our
restaurant equipments friars or dishwashers or whatever comes out of Asia. Right, And so I've made certain commitments to the street about what my growth plant looked like over the next you know, two years, five years, and now all that's kind of hanging in the ether, and I suspect that some stock prices over the next year or so, we'll take take a pounding.
Yeah, we'll see. They sure sure did over the last couple of weeks. All right. I'm looking forward to the day that the narrative shifts from tariffs to tax cuts. Does anything stand in the way of eliminating taxes on tips and overtime?
You know, again, rhetoric meeting reality. It's kind of a theme here. I think, you know, when when when the president announced that policy idea, I guess at a rally and h during the campaign, and everybody kind of jumped on board. It was one of those things that that that got ahead of itself. You saw a race among Republican senators to get a gold star from the President and introduced legislation, ran down, Ted Cruz ran down the Senate floor, and next thing, you know, we have legislation
blah blah blah. And of course the industry has to go whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, let's pump the brakes here. This is a very complicated area of the law, forty five B tax credit. You know, our whole our own models predicated on this forty five B tax credit, you know, in terms of the about casual dining obviously, and you know,
sit down, full servi, full service restaurants. And they had to you know, the NRA and others had to race up the Capitol hill in the who who who Let me explain how this whole ecosystem works here and here it is April twenty fourth. We haven't heard much about that issue federally. I know that in December after the election, John Thune, the majority leader uh the Senate, was like, this a very high priority and members, we're talking about it.
People were talking about it in town hall meetings and here we are in April, and no one's talking too much about Now. Other headlines have sucked a little bit of the oxygen out of the room, right, Obviously, the tariff stuff and what's going on, you know, all that kind of stuff. But it is not an easy thing. And when you've got the NRA and the restaurant's going, well, what's super careful here, kind of takes some of the gat the gleam off of it.
Right.
There are a couple of states that are pursuing that as well, but we didn't see states jump in. We saw a bunch of states with legislation that really was just for the cameras and really didn't go anywhere. And of course you'd want to let something like that be reconciled federally before you start monking with that at the state level. But it was it was fraught with potholes and pitfalls. And I'm not saying the issue is going away because it's political merit in it, but it's super complicated,
as you well know. And I don't think yeah, I mean the president candidate Trump at the time, former President Trump at the time, heard this from a server on a stage and went out two minutes later, there was no policy and there was no white paper at a heritage foundation on this thing.
All of a sudden, it is.
The fifty yard line of a conversation, and it's it's been hard over the last four or five months to.
Pump the brakes level set understand.
What's going on here, and so I think the enthusiasm on that space has dropped a little bit. I think that if they could figure out a way to do it, they would pursue it because it has a lot of political juice in it, especially with their overarching theory of trying to have more outreach to the working class and working class voters and so forth. So it fits nicely
into their overall strategy. This one's just super complicated. And you start opening up the tax code and exempting this person from income tax, so this part of their income from then what's next, you know, and just dominoes start to all doubt And so I think cooler heads have forvailed on that issue. It remains to be seen what's gonna happen.
Seems like the MAHA movements made some progress in some state legislatures.
Yeah, we saw you know, West Virginia, and you know, no one's ever said, you know, let's follow West Virginia's lead on state legislation, but they were out there first and banned a number of dies and preservatives and so forth.
And we saw Sarah Huckaby Sanders just last week sign they've Senate Bill nine into law with a little broader list, and we have a big bill kind of the last what I would think is kind of the last big bill of the year, just because you know, a lot of the state legislature is already out, especially some of the red states where this is going are already out. Louisiana has a massive bill as like fifty one I think ingredients in it, you know, so it hasn't gone
to so many states, but the conversation certainly has. But again that's another one that's that's that's complicate, right, and you know, from an industry perspective, and whether it's a manufacturing side or the retailers O the restaurants, so much of what's in the I think all of the Louisiana bill, all those fifty one entities or ingredients are banned in the UK, EU, Canada already right in parts of the world, So you know, it's hard to have a leg to stand on to say, well, we can't do this, We
can't do that.
You know, obviously we probably can.
It's just whether we can how much time they give you to kind of reformulate, and you know, and so forth. But it's got a lot of political energy. But I think it's another issue. I feel like I'm kind of a cynical black cloud on it. I don't mean to be, but I'm just trying to be, you know, predictive of where the conversation goes.
You know.
I think it's another one where it's kind of cool until it's not right, and once you start going down the road and and and really trying to.
Dig into space.
At some point when John Q voter in Iowa their kid can't get fruity pebbles anymore, there's what the hell's going on around here?
You know?
And and I think the same thing is happening with soda. We're starting to see some of the things in the Louisiana Bill, the Arizona Arkansas Bill have to deal with soda colorings and formulations. And you start messing with John Q viewed voters PEPSI man, and all of a sudden you're now you're hitting a.
Little too close to home, right, and so we'll see where that goes.
You know, I don't I think if I'm a restaurant operator, whether large or small, I think it's like what is the next set of dominoes? If you if you start off and this dies and food coloring that has really very little attachment to any real science, you know, around the causations of different You know what happens when you have some real science behind it, i e.
Obesity, salt, sugar.
And so if I'm a rest in the restaurant world, whether you know, trade association or company, I'm watching this and that was okay, and I know my manu, my supply chain would largely take care of it and we'll figure it out. But if you started getting into sugars and salts and fats and all that kind of stuff. Now now it's getting a little close to home, We'll see where that goes.
You know. I laugh about this particular space.
If you're really you know, you're the Health and Human Services secretary, you have the MAHA movement. The biggest things to make America unhealthy are boos and smokes.
They've said nothing about boos and smokes. So it's like, how.
Much energy is in this, you know, short term? Yeah, it's good politics. It's an interesting political coalition between kind of lefty granola moms and anti science moms over here. And it's it's a very very interesting political grassroots coalition. It's and it has potential. I mean, if if you
get going on other other issues. It reminds me of it could be the the Mad, if you will, of this generation where you know, parts of the country or blue or red or whatever, we're all united around this issue set right, And I think MAHA is a lot of the building blocks of the of the Mad movement
of you know, twenty twenty five years ago. So I watch I'm fascinated by not so much the policy directives and outcomes, but by the grassroots coalition that they're building around that and what that does to overall kind of I don't know, activism patterns, voting patterns, grassroots pattern that I find MAHA fascinating.
It's really interesting too, or something to see more chains adopt each tallow versus some of these oils, right, yeah.
You know, and I saw some chains kind of get out front, and I'm thinking more of political the steak and shake stuff. We've seen a couple of other chains. It's gonna be hard for some change to make that make that transitions. Then that one's you know, I don't know. I probably should, but I don't know what McDonald's going to pick on McDonald's.
Just because they're the biggest.
But when I go into that McDonald I know, whether I'm in Spokane, Washington or Tampa, Florida, what those French routes are going to taste like. And when I drive in in two years and they taste different, I'm gonna be upset. It's not like my I like it the way it is right, And so we'll we'll we'll see all that plays out. But the the the Louisiana bill that I referenced earlier is the kind of the first one that really starts to play in the oils space
as well. So it's it's a super interesting bill for your audience to kind of go look at and understand.
All right, great, one fair wage is moving onto my home state. Are they going to have any success eliminating the tech tip credit in New Jersey?
You know, Oh my good, this is a great question.
I I ultimately I don't think so if I were going to Vegas and bedding, I would not. You know, we've we've likened this, you know.
Is this the the.
Resurgence of a movement or is this kind of that death rattle before the patient goes under, that last kind of spasmive activity before it's over. I am completely shocked that they continue you as an entity to receive funding. Their their legislative political track record over the last couple of years has been abysmal. I mean, they've they've won in the City of Chicago, they've lost bout initiatives, and you know, Massachusetts and legislation Baltimore and you know, state
of Mayor, all these places. They're just losing left and right. I don't think that they're going to be able to be successful in New Jersey. You never know, but unlikely. I mean, you gotta look down ninety five of what's happened in the restaurant industry in DC.
It's a little more complicated.
Obviously, COVID kept much of the customer base of the restaurant industry out of the city. Remote work kept it from backfilling up. And in the middle of this, the voter's passed this tip cradit elimination, which is just I mean, you know, kind of nailing the coffin for a lot of restaurant owners. But I think the issue can be framed in a way that the destructive impact that the tip cred elimination had, and it's just right down the street.
I don't find a lot of fervor in New Jersey for what's going on.
Similarly, they have this legislation in India in Illinois to replicate what Chicago did, and everybody's like, no, we're not doing that again, you know.
So you know, I think it's kind of the death rattle.
I just don't know where they're gonna get their funding, where they gonna get their funding note to continue. So I don't see it. I don't see it happening in Baltimore. I don't see it happening in New Jersey. I don't see it happening in Illinois. So we'll see where that movement goes. But there they're still active, you know, rattling their pots and pans. They were up in Albany this week rallying at the capitol about the bill up there.
They were in Springfield this week riding on the pots and pans about the bill there, but I think it's just kind of for the short term cameras, and I don't think it has really any impact, gotcha.
Yeah, And it's bummer to hear what's going on there, you know, in the with the restaurant industry in d C. Man our old stomping grounds.
Yeah, it's it's it's a bad it's it's just a it's not even a one to two punch, but it's been a one, two, three punch for them, and it's been and now you know, half I guess a four punch is that their customer base was kept out of the city, their customer base was incentive not to come into the city, and now they're.
All being fired. So it's like, what is going on?
I mean, the housing market in d C is going to take a die. I mean, it's just a bad, bad time. If you were you know, Mike's Barn and Grill on Fifteenth Street, Man, it's got to be a really tough tough time to be a restaurant operator in DC.
Yeah, for sure, man, I you know, I like to get there at least once a year. Hopefully my Jose Andres restaurants are still alive from Well, next time I get down there.
Man, Yeah, that I love his email, his Mexican place on seventh that is, I could just bring him backpack, sleeping bag, his move into that joint. I love that place. It's fantastic, fantastic. So yeah, so what do you what do you when you when you were talking to you know, corporate leaders, what are they saying to Michael about this space.
Are they nervous or they think it's all.
Gonna kind of pan out and it'll die down, or what's when you talk to your folks, you know, what do they think.
In regards to which topic?
Just ability to turmoil?
You know, the outlook, economic outlook, No, no, no particular policy and I'm asking about but just to kind of the overall, you know, all this stuff settle down, they get back to running the restaurants or is it just going to be a wild ride here for the next couple of years.
It's interesting, right because we came out of last year, which was such a rough year for restaurants, right, Like the slow down and consumer spendings typically typically hits restaurants first.
And you've had that, and but after the election, people start spending more money and you know, I was expecting some strength here in the first half of the year as we were lapping some weak numbers, and the industry got it with the oldest January and fourteen years we had snow, we had the worst flu season in a very long time, and then now we have uncertainty about tariff. So we just got started on the earning season. Chipotle
reported yesterday and that was interesting. They're talking about a week second quarter and I don't think that's really surprised anyone. But what is a little bit surprising is that their numbers are actually weaker than what we're seeing in April through black Box Intelligence data. So the data in April it seems to be getting better, you know, post you know, tariff for drama. So really there's just a lot of uncertainty, you know, in the markets, by the consumer were and
about what's going to happen. I mean, I think Chipotle sounded pretty positive that the second half was going to be a lot better than the first half, but that's typically what a company does when they miss first quarter earning. So how much is it is there sincere belief versus you know, what they want to tell the street right now?
Us surprise to see Chipotle's numbered down a little bit. I just get you know, you know, I don't have my little microcosm of the world as a reference point, but I live with in you know, ten or fifteen minutes to two Chipotle's, and every time I go by and there's there's plenty of people there. I mean, they're busy, they're busy properties, you know, So that kind of surprised me when I saw that.
Yeah, I was surprised that everybody their their trend. So there's you know, we look, we go back, do we look at two year trends, six year trends. You know, their six year trend was down ten percentage points from the fourth quarter to the first. Their two year trend was down over seven hundred faces points from the fourth quarter of the first a material slowdown, right that that seven hundred basis points is an old weather and flew in the shift of easter, right, so there's something going on.
We're trying to figure it out. Management pointed to, uh, you know, efforts to clean their stores better and uh, you know, provide their customers with friendlier service. So I wish I had some more for you. By the end of next week. I'll have a lot more data on that.
On that ask you another question. You're interviewing me, and now I'm interviewing you.
But but you're a great host, So let's let's do about.
So so on the you know, I remember a million years ago when I had you know, headful of Hair and heartful of Hope and Darden, we would talk about weather and you know, quarterly earnings reports and we were all very caught. Isn't the weather obviously, But you know, fast forward all these years and delivery is such a big.
Part of the business.
Now, you know, is how how much of delivery and not having to go out to get food has softened the edges of some of that weather stuff or is it?
Are they just haven't been connected? Are they connected?
You would think it will. But last year we saw consumers do a lot more pick up versus the third party delivery just because the the you know, price difference is massive. But I think there is something to that. You know, what we wrote in our earnings preview for Dominoes was that we expect Dominoes to perform most quick service restaurants because when the weather's really cold and snowy, you know, you're more likely to order a pizza than than to leave the house. So and pizzas, you know,
the most cost effective way to feed a family. It's got it's got a great price point.
It's getting up there though.
We my my, my, my little humble Costa is no stranger to pizza delivery.
It's like normal on tiers.
Hey Joe, Hey doing but you can it didn't take long to uh get a pretty expensive pizza water, so that the prices are going up on that pretty significantly.
Yeah, man, we're seeing it. We're seeing it. So and it's it's going to be interesting to see what's what opens with the tariffs, right, Like, most of our companies don't have that exposure, which is great. And when it comes to the food side, most of the increases that the companies are going to suffer and be passed along with modest price increases or just swallowed by the company without much of an issue. You know, Chole was talking about about fifty bases point increase in perpetuity to their
cost to the tariffs. You know, what's more interesting, I think is you know the point you made earlier about equipment and a lot of the component components of the equipment especially are manufactured in China, and so that's a
little bit more of a concern. But that's you know, it's going to eat into returns on investment a little bit, but I don't think it's enough to be completely prohibitive, right, But we're going to continue to watch cash on cash returns and yeah, and it's going to be more of the same. The companies that will provide the best returns on investment are going to be the ones that grow the fastest. Right, money flows to where it's treated best. Has there been progress on paid lead?
You know, paid leaves?
Super interesting issue, you know, the one that comes to mind obviously, the voters in Missouri in November past Proposition A, which established a new paid leave regiment in the state. The Republicans went to in the legislature tried to basically terminated cancel the will of the voters. A Democratic filibuster in the Missouri Senate has kind of derailed that effort, and it looks like their law will take effect next
week May one. It's slow but steady. I think they're only probably still thirteen twelve states that have a mandated paid leave. I see what's been interesting in that space, and there are a couple of spaces. Portable benefits is another one where the politics over the last couple of years have shifted tremendously and we've been, you know, over the last ten or fifteen years, the paid leave has kind of been a pet project of the Blue team, right and setting up paid leave laws, sickly laws, whatever
it may be. And so you've got the big blue states, the Californias and the New Jerseys and the New York's
and Illinois's Conneticuts with their paid leave law Maryland. But what you started to see is in states like Vermont and New Hampshire, a number of states Kentucky kind of leader where Republicans have kind of gained the upper hand on this issue and look at paid leave from a perspective of not necessarily being a government program per se, but opening up the private marketplace and leveraging insurance companies to provide policies that either an employer can pay in full or in part.
Like any other benefit. And it's taken a lot of air out of the paid leave issue.
And unless it's just in big solid blue states, right, but there are a number of red states that are either passed or in the you know, having the CENTERFIC conversation about a market based paid leave program that is not necessarily mandated, but employers are certainly incentive to go down this road through the tax code or whatnot. And like I say, if you're the labor community, you're Bernie Sanders, you're pulling your hair out about this because it's really
taken the leadership of the issue. And as it referenced earlier, it jives in nicely with their overall strategy of trying to make more inroads with working class voters and so forth. And I mean, the Democrats have essentially fumbled, in my opinion, my humble opinion, have fumbled the paid leave ball, and the Republicans have picked it up and run.
Their own direction with it. But they're the one with the ball now.
And so now the Democrats are reacting to what an enlarge measure are common sense approaches to paid leave, and it's driving them kind of crazy, if you will, same thing on portable benefits that we just saw a portable benefits legislation signed in the law in Tennessee and Alabama.
And you know, who would have thought the Alabama legislature would be out front on creating benefits packages for as many employer employees as possible, right, I mean, it's just that the Blue team has squandered a bunch of these issues they've traditionally kind of owned. So it's been super history. I know, paid leave and portal benefits are very different, but one sits inside the other. That's super They're related obviously,
so I spect you'll see more of that. We had some paid leave legislation I think for the fifth year in a row in New Mexico ran out of gas. I think the puck has just gone to a different part of the rink on this issue. And if Democrats want to do the New York style California style mandated benefit program, it's it's they're kind of run out of states that are amenable to that anymore, so they can have to they have to change the direction on this issue.
So I find that issue pretty fascinating as well.
Yeah, that's really interesting trying to leverage the private market and the tax code to incentivize employers.
And yeah, and you would think when we're back to you know, pre COVID numbers of basically four percent unemployment and employers employees employers are back to competing for workers. Something like that is very attractive, right that they can now play and have some leverage over creating a benefit package that works for their employee at their their workforce, as opposed to this kind of paying into some fund
that may stay in the paid leave fund. But we see many states you pay into one fund, it becomes the highway fund over there when the buddy is tight, you know what I mean. So it's it's actually a much more discipline approach and involved.
In the market.
And I think Republicans are kind of changing the game on that on that issue.
Well, and I learned from your odd Pepperdine did a study on the fast acts impact in California and what did it find that they should listen to you?
Well, I think it's you know, you know, when when the proponents of these types of policy proposals, whether it's minim wage increases or workforce standards boards, you know, you have no idea how it's really going to play out in the real world, you know, and they come out with these projections that this may happen and that may happen, and there's always initial reaction, there's always disruption.
Maybe maybe employers don't.
You know, in an industry like fast food where there's you know, two hundred percent attrition, maybe they just don't replace people as fast. They're nervous about what's going on. But my point being, it takes a year or two or maybe three for enough data to come back where it becomes statistically meaningful. Right, And what we're starting to see in the last three or four months California, you know, d C, these other areas, Chicago, you know, is is real data
about what does this mean for employment? Unemployment benefits. You measure that, you measure new restaurants, starts, you measure applications for permits on liquor like whatever it may be, and you can start to get a picture of the impact
of what it's happening. But again is that there's a couple of year lag and now we're seeing data, report after report, every report coming in to saying whoa this is, This has real rule implications and what Pepperdine And of course I don't know if you've ever been to Pepperdine,
but it's one of those beautiful campuses overlooking Malibu. I don't know how anybody could study there, but so but my point being that you know, while growth while there was still growth in job categories in California, while there was still growth in quick service growth sector throughout the country, there was significant shrinkage in the in the fast food
workforce in California. It went against national norms and national data points, and so it was really it was really easy to tie this policy outcome to that that data outcome, if you will, And I think you're going to see a lot more of that. We have a new head of research at the National Restaurant Association just announced this week, and I think you know, he's coming on board a lot of great time where there's now meaningful data coming out of DC and meaningful data coming out of California.
So I think you're going to see a lot more of that in the industry. Be aggressive, and it's coming at a good time. Obviously, we went to talking about New Jersey earlier. It's now really easy to kind of show New Jersey and the Minneapolis Wage Standards Board idea they're playing with there, that there are actual implications.
So just there's just a lag time.
It's it's a two or three year lag time, so that data becomes meaningful and that's what we're finding now. And Pepperdine jumped on to some other end of the other thing tanks in California.
That that did more How do I say this without impugning that that.
Rightly extrapolated trends to come up with that those those those those outcomes, but it was a little more speculative. Like the Pepperdine study is like data right, and it's the first one in California, and I don't think it
will be the last Biolama shots. So you know, our our our our task as an industry is how do we take that energy, that narrative, that data and make sure that seven thousand state legislators in the country know this, and five hundred and thirty five members of Congress know this, and fifty governors and all that kind of stuff.
That's the that's the that's the NRA's job.
So yeah, from what I've heard, there was a lot of kiosks being installed in California.
Yeah.
Oh thanks again for doing this man, I'm a big fan of your work. Where can listeners go to learn more about aligned public strategies and find the Working Launch podcast?
Well, the Working Launch Podcast, Thank you for the plug is produced by Restaurant Business Magazine, so you can find it on their platform obviously all the Apples and Spotify platforms as well, and you can go to Align Public Strategies dot com. That's where we are and happy to help answer any questions and wax on poetically about the future of the restaurant.
Energies VISE are the public policy and politics.
So I appreciate Michael being on your respected podcast. It's find to listen to you. I learned more about the business and the numbers, and I'm not a numbers guy. I'm I'm the right brain guy, but I your podcast makes me makes me smart, So I appreciate.
I appreciate all you do.
Yeah, you got it, man, I appreciate that, and it's always fun speaking with you. Man. I want to thank the audience for tuning in. If you liked our discussion, please share with your friends and colleagues. Check back soon for an interview with Nick Kenner, the founder and CEO of Just Salad.