Ferrari (Part 2) - A Tale of Two C(h)arls

is going to help them get the job done. All we've talked about is Ferrari. There's people in the cars, right according to Endza Ferrari, there are not they don't matter, but there are in fact people in the cars. So yeah, today we're talking about two drivers. Uh one charolet Claire. He is British. He is monogasque, not French monogasque. Yes, okay, and let me speak for the listeners who don't know what that means, not me, I do what is monogasque.

He is from Monaco, which is that tiny principality that is technically I think that's one of the smallest country whatever. It's also very rich. Grace Kelly left acting to marry the former Prince of Monaco. It's a fun fact back in the day. And uh, yeah, so it's on it's on the coast of France. It's very tiny. But you cannot tell anyone from Monico that they are basically French because they will butt your head off. So and that includes Charles, who is very clear that he is monta Gasque.

Uh and I did not know that that was what you called somebody from Monica. I would have probably said Monican I am, admittedly. I also did not know until I became a Formula one fan, and now I feel very superior to percent of the population. Want to gass Our other driver, Carlos Science, is from Spain, which is a little bit more straightfoward. So but those are who we're talking about today. So let's start with Charles because

he is a very fun one to talk about. And I will say, yeah, Carlos and Charles very different backstories, very different drivers. I also find it funny that their names are both variations of the same name. Technically, like Carlos is the Spanish person of Charles. I'll say Charles is dating a woman named Charlotte. There's just a lot of a lot of sharp stuff going on there. Uh So, okay, we're we're gonna, We're gonna first let's break down. I

guess the general gist of this duo here. So you've got you know, you look at red Bull, You've got Max for step In, you know, Sergio Checho Perez. There's a very clear number one, number two. But they do seem to get along. They're very cool with their roles or generally they understand what their roles are. Um, I'd say on the surface, charl and Carlos have a very

easy banter, a very kind of friendly partnership. They've been known to play chess against each other online, so you can actually see it as a fan, and it's interesting they take different approaches to their chess games, which is fascinating. Uh And and generally, yeah, they do goofy challenge videos together for the team. Organically, they kind of have a lot of fun during driver interviews. It's relaxing. Do you

listen music sometimes? To realize I've sometimes started to listen some yes in the mornings, just yes, really something that is maybe one of of the few styles that I'm not a big finel. Send me the playlist. Yeah, there seems to be good vibes, so to speak between the two of them. I'm gonna google their salaries real quick. Yes, you mind if I do that, go for it. Team Ferrari Formula one salaries. So you're looking this up. Something

funny about F one salaries is they're all secret. They're like, you can't go to a team and ask them for their driver's salary, but every other team will tell you what everyone else is doing. Hence why we have the estim nations we do have, right, So this Google's estimating that Carlos gets ten mill and gets twelve, so pretty similar. I mean I looked up Max and Checko and it was four versus eight. Yeah, pretty clear discrepancy there. Yeah,

this is more even. Yeah, Charles Charol, he's twenty four and Carlos is twenty seven. Is this recording kind of things? In turn twenty eight and a couple of months, so, uh, you know, Charol younger driver, but but definitely sort of like golden boy of the team. Carlos came in only one season ago at the start of one, but is only a couple of years olders. They're close in eight It's not like some of these teams that you've got,

you know, Lewis and George thirteen years apart. So that's that's that's the overall gist of of Charol and Carlos. So I think it's also fun though to talk about them separately. Charlot is, without a doubt a percent, Ferrari's golden boy. Interestingly, their team that has often gone with slightly older drivers, um, including in the fifties, some of their drivers are in like their late forties and in early more reason for me to like them. There you go, Yeah,

you have a chance. Every time you're telling me something about Ferrari, I am more on board. Yeah I was gonna say, you have a chance to to be a Ferrari. No, no, but I like that approach of not just younger's better, like more experienced, a more savvy driver. I'm into that. Yeah. So he yea. So Charles signed with the team in late for the start of the nineteen season, and uh, it was kind of a surprise when they signed him that young again, because the team isn't necessarily known for

that like other teams are. Like a Red Bull who's kind of known for signing and kind of pumping and dumping people in the program. Uh. And he also at the time that he had signed a little bit after that, he signed a five year contract extension a year later, which was I think considered one of the longest, if not the longest, in F one history at the time. So I feel great to be young and to sign a long contract. You can finally just settle in and

just just to take a deep breath exactly. So his contract was for through the end of so in other words, you know, always put a lot of eggs in the Charl basket, so to speak. And it's it's it's generally known that he's there. Guy, he is ferrari uh and all of that. Let me show you actually before we move on, I'll show you a physical photos physical appearance of Charl. I mean, I have this coaster, but it's not a photo. You know what, Michael, I have something

better for you. I have Kate Lazat. She is the co creator of Two Girls, One formula, Two Girls One Formula that is in fact what yeah. But more importantly, she's a Charo Leclaire super fan. Think of a Greek god. Think of just like the best looking, angelic, beautiful, chiseled, gorgeous person that you can think of, And that is only half. He has messy brown hair. His eyes are like green blue gray. They just like look like an ocean, like you just want to like swan dive into his eyes.

Perfect eyebrows, perfect cheekbones, The bone structor is unmatched. He is more beautiful than the most beautiful woman I've ever seen. Oh man, this is I'm getting he is, And forgive me for describing a world class athlete this way. He's cute. He's very cute. This motherfucker cute. Okay, like he he's cute.

That's that's Charles. He also has like his friends with fashion designers, he's a little less flashy than he never shows up to the track, for instance, and anything other than his team kit right like he's ready to go, always got the shirt on. But off track he can be a little more stylish, which, by the way, I do appreciate because you showed me Lewis Hamilton's showing up with all this fancy fashion, and as time has gone on, I've thought more about that, and there is a time

and a place to show off your fashion. And I'm almost now becoming a little more critical of Lewis Hamilton's doing that on an official walk through on the track. I almost like Charles Leclair for wearing the team kick because that's like, this is a team event, and when it's time to go balls fashion, I'll do that too, So I could see why that shook things up when Lewis Hamilton's does does that, I will say, Um, it's obvious to me that Charles does not at least have

some sort of like Hollywood stylist. He's very into bandanas, Like he puts bandanas on his head kind of a cross it's over and so Ferrari's crossed off. So why is Charole given all, you know, this contract extension, Why is he signed so young? All those things? Similar to Max, he is incredibly fast. Undoubtedly Leclair is a championship caliber driver F one expert. I'll just kevlowskis he's in his prime right now. His pace, especially in qualifying is unbelievable.

Around one lap, he's just he's just magic. The way he hooks up that final lap in Q three, the way he's able to kind of really just put it out there as close to the walls and you know, as close to the edge of the track because he can. He was making these kind of mid corner corrections that his teammate wasn't able to do. Let's let's then talk

about Charles the man Less the driver. He is just a very earnest, like good hearted boy, Kate Lozatte again, he grew up in Monaco and from a very young age, like all of the brothers, got into karting because they were really good friends with um the Bianchi family and for those of you who are not super familiar with F one, Jules Bianchi was an F one driver and so like the Bianchie family was very close to Charless and they owned a carding circuit and so they would

bring the Leclair boys there to to kart um. Charles was the best one obviously out of all of them, and so they didn't have a ton of money, so they had to like only be able to afford to like put money behind one of the boys to continue on, and so that was Charles. Charles starts making his way through the junior formulas. In the early things are looking great and then unfortunately tr Judy strikes for a first time. Charl Leclair lost his godfather at a very young age.

This is a one journalist, Jenny Girl. His godfather was Jul Bianche, who was a former F one driver and the guy that they all said was going to go to Ferrari and be their next great hope. However, he was severely injured, critically injured in an accident in Japan. You know me, I will keep you updated. So that was the f I Press delegate Matto Bonciani saying that Biankee is unconscious. It's the only thing he would say. He's taking the hospital, he's on life support. He eventually

succumbs to his injuries and dies. Everyone was saying he was like he was going to Ferrari. That was like where he was going to end up. Um, that's what he's working for. And so obviously that was like horrifyingly hard for Charles. He was like, that's my godfather, the man who like taught me everything I know in terms

of motorsport. So you know, Charles almost makes it his mission, like he also wants to drive for Ferrari, not just for him, but for Jewels who didn't get to fulfill that, you know, see that goal through and accomplish that lastly number one. Fast forward a couple of years, his father dies. Charles is in Formula two, so that that junior level

right below Formula one. And the story goes that just days after his father has died, Charles goes to the latest race, which is in Baku, Azerbaijan, and he gets onto the steps in Baku having won the race with tears,

and it was such a courageous thing. I think everybody in the paddocky, even though it was one of the junior categories, just stood still and looked at this young boy because at the time he was really a young boy with dim poles and you know, floppy brown hair, and you just thought this strength of character that it took for him to even race that weekend, let alone for him to race and win with something extraordinary. And to only add two more to this story that's already sad.

When his dad was dying, Charles had hoped that he would have news of hope that he had signed. You know, he had some news about Formula one to give to his dying father. So he goes to his dad and he lies to him and to his dad that he has signed with a Formula one team. So that his dad can be happy, and of course Chiles buries him knowing that he is like he's like, please, dear God, let me make a formula one time, so I'm not

lying to my dad about like you know. So thankfully he signs with the Sober Team a couple of months later, but you're just like, oh my god, this guy who so badly wanted his dad to be proud and like to to be able to give him good news on his deathbed, Like, oh God, that's just so heavy. You did say these guys are filled with daddy issues. It's like, you know, I like to think, uh that, yeah, I mean, that's very achievement based. I have to have this achievement

to make my dad proud of me. Like, but also it's like the son who wants to make that just wants to bring some light to the dad liked his heart heartbreaking and also a psychologists be very interested in that. A lot of tragedy in Charles's backs and also tragedy on the race track. Yeah yeah, yeah, So so that's that's charl And I think what what this all leads to is that Charles a person he can be in some ways. He's very much a driver's driver, right he

comes to the track. He's very into race car driving. It's all he thinks about, you know, all of that. He's also very passionate and Charles almost sometimes wants it so badly that he'll overdo it. Right. So here's a fun fact. Up until Charlott Leclaire had never finished his home Grand Prix and Monaco, and a lot of it comes down to not a question of if charl is a good driver a bad driver, but I think he just really wants it so badly, especially when he's at home,

that he has a tendency to overdo it. It's very common for athletes to put so much pressure on themselves that they underachieve. That's very common in all sports. Joking is if that's what we're calling it, I mean it is the thinnest line away from succeeding. Yeah, So I'd say overall, yeah, like Charole, I think is like easy to root for in many ways. He's got he's got

a lot going on in the back story. He's got a lot of heart, not yet not known for being like an awful, aggressively rude driver who's the worst and whatever. So that's yeah, that's I guess Charo. He does seem easy to root for, and uh, that's always funny when you make that and then you look up the salary and you're like, oh, and he's making twelve million dollars a year plus endorsements. But yeah, that's that's interesting. All right. Cool,

that's Charles Charlotte. So who's the other driver. We'll get into all of that right after the break. So who's the other driver? Yeah, right on the other side of the rush across from Charlotte Spaniard. Yeah. The Spanish version of Charles kidding is is Carlos Science. And unlike charl who does not really come from like storied racing family, Carlos is from a hardcore racing family. His dad is

Carlos Sr. And Carlos signs. Sr. Is one of the most iconic figures in a form of motorsport called rally. The start of Stage fourteen says is driving like a man possessed as usual. There's a lot of off roading, there's a lot of your kind of going into you know, the mountains and whatnot. It's also incredibly dangerous. The car is destroyed flipping six times. SAME's head lulls about crashing into the ground on two of the flips. He's an absolute bull of a man. That was Jenny Go again.

He's called al Mattador, you know, the king when it comes to driving. So yeah, there's some there's some good stock. And Carlos has had quite a checkered past really when it comes to Formula One. No problem getting into it. Staying in it was the issue for him. So Carlos different story than Charles. The big thing to know about Carlos is he's kind of known as a team hopper. He was part of Red Bull, was relatively successful and it's just kind of bobbed around different teams trying as

best he can. He's in his ninth season currently in Formula One. He's been on four teams. So he was at Toro Rosso. He moves to a team called Reno now called Alpine in the sport, which we'll talk about soon. He jumps to McLaren for two seasons. Yeah, I get it. You kind of have friends like that. Yeah, the fifth time they tell you it's a new job, you're kind of like over asking questions and you're like, okay, this is this is now up to you. Everyone thought, oh,

is he is he in trouble? Here? Is he going to be able to stay in Formula One? And then all of a sudden we get news that he's going across to Ferrari in a most unexpected I think signing. No one really thought that they were going to come

in and snatch a slightly senior, slightly untested driver. Yeah, and I think for Carlos, he's really gotten the reputation of being a driver who is super adaptable, super verse at all, and very consistent generally speaking, Like you know, he's hopped into a bazillion different Formula one cars and can immediately kind of figure things out generally. A disadvantage

of that is that he's No. One's number one guy, right So at Red Bull, obviously he was there around when Max Verstappen was coming up, and that was kind of, you know, everyone kind of knew even then Max Stappin is gonna be the guy. You know, Charlotte Claire is the Ferrari guy. Even when he was at McLaren, he

was actually faster than his teammate Lando Norris. But Lando Norris, who will talk about in our next episode, Landa Norris was in the McLaren Young Driver's Program and was kind of seen as like, no, we're we're priming him to be the guy for us, And I think to that extent, there's always been this question from people like, well, what does Carlos want? Did you even want to be a Ferrari driver? Like what what's the goal here? You know? Is it just whatever car will get him fastest from

you know, beginning to end of race? Like what's you know? That's kind of the I think the lingering question about him or with Charles. You know that he's all in on Ferrari as much as they're all in on him. Carlos, you know, I think some people were surprised when he went to Ferrari and McLaren looked, Yeah, he was still finishing faster than than Lando and and technically actually finished just ahead of him in season after he moved to Ferrari.

So yeah, there's just a lot of mystery surrounding like what what does Carlos signs? Does we want? Yeah, he actually had a great rookie season at Ferrari. He did beat charl Leclair, although it's one of those occasions where the numbers don't quite tell all of the story because Charles had a hell of a lot of bad luck last season, but still amazing to do. You know, it's still amazing to beat schal Leclair at his own team

in your first season at Ferrari. But he's been given a championship level car and he just hasn't been able to step it up to that level. Whilst hl Leclair, you know, he's been given that championship card this season and he's gone up a little bit of a step. So that's what that's what kind of Carloso struggled with. But he's also had a hell of a lot of bad luck. I'm not you know, I don't think he's gonna be in that championship fire. He's quite far behind.

But up against schul Leclair in that car, it's going to be very difficult for anyone to beat Shoals, I will say, though, Yeah, Carlos very well liked guy across the grid. He has good chemistry with any teammate. He has you know, you know, keeps things light, keeps things fun. Uh. So that's I think a big pro in his corner. And and Ferrari just announced that he's getting another contract extension and for at least, I believe it's two more seasons,

so they obviously see something in him. But the other thing to keep in mind with Ferrari is that while they're young driver program isn't as ridiculously gigantic and ruthless as Red Bulls, they do have a pretty healthy number of young drivers who are coming up. So the question is if Charles is their guy, where does that leave Carlos in the long term, especially if he isn't performing right And man, you must feel that if you're on if you're a Formula One driver, you know all of

these teams have young driver. You must feel these guys just clawing at you at all times. The next two years are important for Carlos exactly if he kind of takes the next step up, he's on a big enough team, he'll be noticed, he'll get the resources. But if he kind of just withers, yeah, I don't like that. Yeah, anything can happen. Um, So Carlos is a lot of

question marks. I will show you Carlos. I will preface by saying Carlos um loves the thirst trap also has a devoted fan base just based aesthetically on what he's up to, but this will give you an idea fan base based aesthetically. Oh yeah, Spanish handsome. We got four pictures here, two of which, thank you Lily, his shirt is off I want to give you. It's from his instagram, so it's gonna be the full picture of Carlos, one

of which he's lifting powerful dumbbells. The hair I mean, I don't he's standing still, but the hair is moving somehow. It's always in emotion. Yeah, so this is a handsome duo. Uh and um, he looks like a Spanish stallion, even though the term is Italian stallion. Yeah. Yeah, so that's that's Carlos. I do find it interesting you found Charles cute and Carlos handsome to start. I mean, that's right. Am I wrong? But I'm interested to see what the

fans say. Right if you've If you've, I don't offended anyone, because if you have called them both very attractive, I would say that Charles feels to me like the approachable member of a boy band, and um, Carlos feels like movie star. Don't go anywhere near that table. You see what I'm saying? That perfect analogy. Yeah, yea, I completely see it. I'm not sensing a big rivalry between these two. You even sent a video to me where they're like

giggling doing pressed together. Yeah, that doesn't feel like, you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna slice this guy up on the track. Is that a problem for them? But they're not like more hating each other. It's interesting they feel like there was a lot of camaraderie when when the car was still struggling last year, you know, when they were fighting for that that third place in the championship. You know,

they weren't even in real championship contention. I feel like there's there's something be said for right when you're both like, you know, we're really slogging through it, and you know Charle was was really slogging through it after so you know, there's a little bit more support there to be given. Things are starting to get a little bit complicated. As we've talked about, Charole is the golden boy of Ferrari. However, Carlos I would say is no slouch either. He definitely

is not considered the future of the team. He's not the guy the whole team is kind of being built around. But he's still a very strong driver who wants to win and wants to succeed and wants to do well, so that, as you can imagine, does start to create some conflict to begin with. Just because two young millionaires giggle during a two minute press conference doesn't mean they're best friends exactly. We don't really know. Yeah, I think for the first time in a while firm Ferrari, their

drivers are very equal footing Kate Lizzott. Again, they're very similar ages, very similar skill sets and and experience levels. So something that has been really interesting about Ferrari team boss Mattia he has made it clear that he's fine with his drivers racing it out between each other, keep it on the track. I like that. He's like, we're trying to get back to where Ferrari used to be, so we are going to make the decisions to make that happen. While it's super entertaining for us as fans

and a spectators, that causes problems for the team. Carlos, I think, is still trying to fight for it, and the fact that team leadership at Ferrari isn't making it clear at this point in the season who they're going to prioritize could potentially make that worse. I mean, as soon as you allow yourself to be the number two guy, the other teams see you as the number two guy also, and then you can almost never escape that, like you almost just have to be alpha, alpha, alpha all day long,

and then you die in alpha. That's my opinion. I mean, as a guy who was number six on his collegiate tennis team, that number two position, that that label is tough. Let's take a quick break and we'll be right back. So I guess to give the final pictures here. I think most people, even if you're a neutral, even if you've never heard of Formula one until you've listened to

this podcast, you can get behind Ferrari. This year. We're hearing from Jenny Girl because they've been so rubbish all of a sudden to come out with a decent car with two fabulous drivers. It's just really exciting. And they're called the prancing Horse for a reason because when it's performing, you're there on your tippy toes going, oh my goodness, this is great. It's it's a real thing of joy to see Ferrari back to where they've been in the past.

You know, one of the most dominant teams in Formula one. Well, the history also the seventy year that just builds up. You have your kid become a fan and that kid's kid because yeah, so it just keeps building exactly. Yeah. And then if we're talking about drivers, obviously a lot of love to Charles Charlette Claire is probably the most likable guy on the grid, I would say, in terms of who he is, what he stands for, and his

journey into Formula one which has been extraordinary. But cut through all of that, he's just a great guy who can drive blomen fast. Yeah, it's just a it's a fairy tale story. And um, I've did underneath the podium and shed a couple of tiers for him. And I think when someone manages to do that to our cynical journalist cynical journalists, then they have a lot going for them. And above all else, if esthetics are important, the bone

structure is excellent. So instructor is a bonus bonus. And then Carlos, uh, you know, despite Carlos kind of being in the kind of odd position of number two, but also evenly matched generally, you know, and not necessarily an obvious number two, he is, like I said, a very con asistant driver where you know where charl might have some issues, Carlos can kind of ye be that more consistent,

reliable driver at times. So if you're into that, if you're someone who has job hopped a lot in life and don't want to be held against you, you know, Carlos could could be the guy to to go with. And he just signed for two more years after this year with Ferrari, so uh, it's no no small feat given that they do have a pretty deep stable of

younger drivers really chomping at the bit. I think I like a team where both drivers can win, as opposed to a team that's making the calculation of we're going to set up one driver to win with using our other driver because so many things are unpredictable in sport, and especially with these engines and the tracks and the humidity and the weather. Having to championship drivers, in my opinion,

seems like the strategy that I would want to adopt. Uh. If I was Carlos and I even felt a smidgeon of Charles is our guy, Carlos is number two, I would be so motivated to fucking win everything, you know, So maybe that's what he's thinking yeah. So out of out of charlond and Carlos, do you have a preference or similar to their championship stuff? Are you evenly matched

on how you feel? I guess I'm leaning towards Carlos, and I can't exactly tell you why other than um, I'm getting a sense that that that he might be Let's sign him for a couple of years. We'll see if our young guys come up. You know, he's a good place holder, and I just this guy is probably one. He is one of the best of the best of the best, and I want him to kind of. I love when someone can prove I'm not a number two. I'm not wait, I'm not a placeholder. I'm not wait

for the new young guy to come up. I'm gonna I'm gonna smoke your ass right now. And I mean, I think the abs have also gotten to you. Let's be let's be honest. Him doing an upright dumbbell lift shirt off that also helped. Yeah, and so out of your your current I would say the topics you got George, and you really like Checko, I do like check Yeah, And then Carlos, is there one that's really rising thus far out Um, I'm a new dad. Yeah, it's probably

probably Checko at this point. Yeah, probably check But I realize that's kind of silly because he's like almost admitted to being the number two. But um, we need more thirty year olds racing. We can't just have been seventeen all the time. So I like that. I mean, I think Checo would love to know that he's number one in your heart. Now, Yeah he's number one, even though he's number two. But you know what I mean, I've not brought up Max at all. He's not my favorite

right now. Where Michael Costa stands is probably Checko for the driver and Ferrari for the team, you know what I mean. So I don't know what that means. I've only have only been introduced to three teams and six drivers, so we're a third of the way through. But you've got your guy. So yeah. So next week we're talking about another really iconic brand within the sport and team within the sport of Formula One, and that is McLaren Clarence.

So we got McLaren. They are known for the papaya orange and they are also a team that uh is amongst the winningst ever. But they have struggled in recent years. They've really had to rebuild their program. Uh, and they have a very very intriguing lineup to have arguably, actually, someone say, the most marketable to drivers of anyone on the grid. You have the very kind of slightly nerdy and giggly young man in Lando Norris, who's incredibly fast

but very young. And then you have got the perennial fan favorite in Daniel Ricardo, Australian guy, big personality. He has come on your program or Trevor knows program that you also are on. Yeah, I mean I noticed he was on the show and they always announced the guest at the beginning of the show and people always clap, but when they said his name d people went nuts.

Well we'll talk about how Yeah, Daniel Ricardo and Lando Norris are definitely the two drivers that that come up among the most in terms of who who are the two favorites for for a lot of people. So they but they definitely have an interesting dynamic because you've got two drivers who are ten years apart in age, and you know what happens when the older, more experienced, more beloved driver who's been around the block for a lot longer starts struggling, and the young guy is the one

that you know. The one year old is the one who's who's really bringing home the hardware. So lots of talk about McLaren. They've got a dude bro, California surfer guy, team boss. So yeah, much much to do American American literal California bro. So lots lots of talk about with McLaren. I look forward to thank you, Lily. Yeah, it's cool, okay, right, your free Walter. This has been Choosing Sides f one, a production of Sports Illustrated Studios and I Heart Radio.

The show was hosted by Michael Costa and Lilly Hart. This episode was produced by Lily Herman and our senior producer hi Mi Taal, who also did the sound design at the Cutting Room Studios. We are recorded by engineer Robot Larry, the second mastering by Cello Weisblu. Max Miller is the executive producer and Brannan get Us his head of audio at s I Studios. At I Heart Radio,

Sean Titone is our executive producer. For more podcasts for My Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app Apple Podcasts, where wherever you get your podcasts, don't forget to subscribe to us and leave a review. And if you want more F one goodness, follow us on Instagram at Choosing Sides of What