¶ Ultra Running Journey With Jonathan Prosser
Hello and welcome If this is your first time with us . Thank you so much for stopping by . You are listening to Choose to Endure the show dedicated to the back of the pack runners , where we share stories , interviews , gear and training tips specific to the tail end heroes of the ultra universe .
If you haven't had a moment to do so yet , please consider heading over to your favorite podcast app hit , follow , rate the show and if you're on Apple , you have the opportunity to leave a short review too . Those things are like gold dust and really appreciated . My name is Richard Gleave . I've been running ultras since 2017 .
I have taken on and finished numerous distances at this point , all the way up through 220 miles , and I am unashamedly a member of the back of the pack , just like many of you . Now , today , I am thrilled to bring you a conversation with Mr Jonathan Prosser , a dedicated ultra runner from Topeka , kansas .
Now , jonathan is not only a husband and father of two sons , with a daughter on the way , but he's also the owner of Rocking Chair Running and race director of the Skyline Scramble , which is a three , six and 12 hour timed race out there in Topeka .
Jonathan's journey into ultra running began in 2018 as part of an intentional shift towards a healthier lifestyle after struggling with being overweight . Since then , he's fallen in love by his own admission with trail running , pushing his limits and embracing every new experience along the way , and he's the current Ultraverse Supplements Ambassador .
Now , in the episode here , we're going to dive into Jonathan's recent accomplishment at the inaugural Summit 200 , a grueling new 200-mile race through the mountains of Summit County , colorado , put on by none other than Chase and Casey Hammond of Ultraverse Supplements , who , you may recall , talked about this new event as part of a pretty epic conversation right here on
the show that got us kicked off with season two in episode one . So if you haven't already done so , definitely go listen to that one to get some additional background into how they put on this amazing new race . Whether you're a seasoned ultra runner or just getting started , jonathan's story is definitely going to inspire you , so let's jump in .
Hear all about his incredible first time 200 journey .
What a one to pick .
Jonathan , welcome to the show . Fantastic to have you on . It's been a little while since the run . I hope you're rested up and healing well at this point . How are you doing , sir ?
I'm doing great . I feel good , I feel recovered . I've been doing some training for the next event . Wow , all has been well .
Brilliant , brilliant . Well , before we get into the race itself , I would love to hear a little bit about how you got into ultra running in the first place and what are some key experiences or races that maybe have shaped your running career prior to Summit 200? .
Yeah . So I used to play basketball a lot and I started running consistently to try to just get in shape better and my wife took it upon herself to sign me up for my first half marathon . How kind , yeah . At the time I think the longest distance I had done was like six miles and I was like , okay , we're doing a half .
And it just completely snowballed after that . I just I loved it . I love the experience , love the community , and I was like I got to , you know . From then I looked for a marathon , did the Kansas City Marathon shortly after that , and then I just kept looking for what's next , you know . So I , I
¶ Challenges of Preparing for Summit 200
did . I think I ran my first ultra . It would have been january of 19 , I think , or 18 yeah I think it was 19 . Yeah , it was just a local one around uh lake perry and it was . It was a great experience . I knew then and there that I wanted to keep doing ultras and how far I didn't know at the time .
I loved the experience and the community was a huge reason why I loved it even more . That's kind of how I started even more .
But so that's kind of how I started some of the some of the races that like early on , like I think I did my first 50k and then I had heard of david goggins went down oh yes , went down that bunny hole of listening to all his podcasts uh , book you , things like that .
And I heard about the Leadville 100 and I was like this is crazy , it was the first time I had ever heard you know somebody running 100 . I was like this is nuts , there's this many people doing this .
And I was like I got to have a piece of that and like right was like I want to , I want to do leadville and so I was fortunate enough to run the austin rattler down in texas . Oh yes , got , got a ticket and I was so excited , decided to defer running it in 2021 and , uh , ended up going to run it in 2022 . And I was blessed with a body .
They got me through it and it was just that was . That was an awesome , awesome race experience having . Uh , I had hired a coach , uh , cliff Pittman , who works with CTS coaching and I just wanted to take it serious . I was like this is a huge investment , but also like I don't know if I can get back to there .
So , yeah , I took it real serious , did the training . It was probably one of my hardest training blocks that I've done so far , but , yeah , I just having everybody there , I got to run the last street up into the finish .
Yeah , with everybody that was there my kids , my wife was recording at the finish line and you know , seeing faces like scott jurick cheering for you when you come across the finish line it was like oh wow , this is , this is unreal . This is unreal and so wild . Yeah , so just riding that high I . It was a great experience .
And looked on to the next one a couple of months after that , like what do I want to do ? And that's kind of been what drives is like any race that I do it's . It's a race that I really want to do .
Yeah .
This is a passion for me and , uh , I know it's a hobby and it takes a lot of time , but there's no race that I'm going to sign up for , that's just to get that buckle . I genuinely enjoy it .
Yeah , there's got to be something about it , like something interesting to pull you in . It's not just I'm just going to throw away race , unless it's maybe a build to , as part of a training block to something else . But yeah , I'm with you on that for sure .
Now for those that maybe aren't aware or didn't listen to season two , episode one , where Chase and Casey were talking about Summit 200 , I think maybe we should start off with having you tell us a little bit about the race and then why you chose it as your first 200 miler .
Was it the challenge , the , the scenery or something else that motivated you to take on this really difficult 200 mile race as your very first one ? I mean , I think that's wild and bold . I'm not sure you'll have to . Uh , maybe it's all of that , I don't know I'll start with why I picked it .
So I had originally picked the KD 225 as my first 200 and not because I left flat . You know , that was kind of the opposite and the reason I picked that race one . Chase and Casey are awesome . There's some of the best , most genuine race directors that I've dealt with at a race and just talking to them after races .
They're just genuine people and want to build the sport and so when I saw that they had this race I'm like it starts in Clinton , missouri , that's like a couple hours from my house I was like this is a perfect opportunity . I can volunteer and stuff and help pay for it . It was just a good opportunity .
And the reason I had picked that is because I don't like I wanted the challenge , because for me I don't necessarily like flat miles right , it's not my favorite , but I wanted to see if I could push through that mental , physical barrier of doing that . It was kind of unfortunate .
The race kind of got pulled out from under them a week and a half before it .
Yeah , that was terrible .
There was a lot of us that were disappointed that we couldn't run it , but also just for them , it was kind of messed up and heartbreaking for them . But so that was my first one that I picked . But with the choosing the summit , it was a . You know , for those first reasons chase and casey were directing it . I absolutely love colorado .
I love the mountains . I've I've been fortunate enough to race there with Leadville and a couple other 50 milers , so I knew right then , and there I was , like I want to do this , can I make it happen ? And it was kind of daunting thinking , okay , is it even possible for me to do this ? A hundred kind of broke me in the mountains ?
It even possible for me to do this like a hundred kind of broke me in the mountains ? I just talked , yeah , I just talked to a lot of people that have had a lot more experience than me and they kind of shared their takes on it and why they thought I could do it .
And there's just different aspects of a 200 that are very , very different , not just in terms of the distance but the pace you have to keep .
I already had things down like fueling and like gear and stuff like that , so it was still a learning curve so this was all about the challenge for you really more than anything else , and the fact you get to do it in colorado , up in the mountains there . Back to kind of the lead fill type area .
Yeah , summit County . I've been there in the winter skiing and stuff , but never got to experience it in the summertime , so it was like I got to do this .
So , from a preparation and training perspective , then , once you decided to go and put your hat in for a Summit 200 , how did you go about training for this challenge Do you do like ? What kind of buildup did you do ?
What kind of block had you done , especially given that I think Kansas is relatively flat , much like here in Texas , and clearly Colorado is not . So what was your training like , getting getting ready for Summit 200 ?
Well , we have some favorite hills and these hills are not very big . I think the biggest hill we have is maybe 190 feet .
¶ Training and Strategy for Ultra Racing
So hill repeats are an absolute must , Whether you like them or not . You know hours of going up and down the select hills that we have . That's the only choice , unless you want to get on a treadmill and hike the incline up .
But that doesn't really give you the technical aspect or the real foot feel , feel and I don't think we went back and said but I think summit , summit , 200 is what is it ? 40 000 feet of vert or something like that . You start at 9 000 feet and go up to 12 and a half and 40 000 feet of vert and drop yeah , which is just insane .
Yeah , it doesn't like uh , it doesn't sound super crazy over 200 miles compared to like uh , uh , uray , with like 40 000 feet and 100 , but I guarantee you will feel all of that 38,000 feet or 40,000 , whatever it is .
So you found your hill in Kansas and did , I would imagine , some number of repeats on that hill .
Oh , yeah , yeah . So I knew that I had to carry a larger pack , a heavier pack than I was used to . So that was the biggest , biggest change for me Training for this , versus other hundreds . It was just getting used to the weight . So I'd started with a weight vest , just doing hill repeats . With that .
I'd go as long as I could and then take it off and then keep , keep going without it and but for the most part my training I didn't necessarily get more miles or or even harder miles , it was just more specific to exactly what I was doing . I did .
I did a lot more hiking than I had ever done in previous training blocks , just with weight , with my hiking poles . I was like I'm going to get it , you know , as close to what I'm going to be carrying , what I'm going to be doing , cause the majority of the 200 , you're not running right .
Yeah .
You're trying . You're trying to fast , hike and run some . Trying you're trying to fast , hike and run some . So just trying to keep it as specific as possible , I think I I mean I had some big uh training in races that I picked before the summit . It was kind of my year of going past 100 and seeing what , what I could do .
In february of this year I started with the outlaw 135 and that is one tough race . It's it's , it's it's check , it's technical , it's got hills , but there's something about that course . Like the first 50 miles you like oh , this isn't that bad . And then the second half , you're like this is the worst thing ever .
So it was a fun race and I was able to snag DFL at that race , which I've never been more proud to be DFL , and I will gladly claim that .
I love DFL and I was talking with Victor Ballesteros on a previous episode and he said we shouldn't call it DFL anymore , we should call it the Rising Star Award . So , that's what I'm going with moving forward like the Rising Star .
All right . So there's other races . You know the sticks we got to run together out there at the 72 hours at the sticks sticks .
We got to run together out there at the 72 hours at the sticks and my goal for that one was kind of just uh , practice , sleep , practice , foot care as needed , just some other things that you know going past 100 , things that are kind of necessary to to know , and uh , go before going into a 200 . So I just had fun with it , you know .
Yeah , I was going to say I think sleep's a big one past 100 because most people can strong arm your way through one night and keep going , but once you get into a second , third , fourth night , if you're not on top of your sleep in particular , I mean other things too , but particularly sleep can really start getting to you after a while .
So for me I've always thought for 200s is you've got to really nail your sleep somehow and it changes based on the 200 . But yeah , that's a great one to practice how far you can and can't go before you really need to crash . And then , when you do need to crash , like what do I need ? Is it short naps ? Is it longer stuff ? Like what ?
Is it short naps ? Is it longer stuff ? Like what ? What is it ? I don't think people really get and I don't think it plays as big as a part of it as it probably could in in strategy for for really any 200 , for that matter yeah , yeah .
So I that was the first race that I had ever actually gotten more than like a five minute or 10 minute , you know , dirt nap , and so it was . It was great knowing , like getting a little bit of sleep . I was able to get back up . I felt so much better doing so , and so having that knowledge going into the summit was huge for me .
I was like , all right , I do need to sleep . It'll propel me forward faster than if I tried to avoid it .
And that's the thing I don't think people quite grasp . They just think , oh , if I just go through it I'm still moving right .
But there's a lot of times if you stop for an hour or two or even three hours , the boost you get on the other side of that more than makes up for the lack of time that you've been moving really slowly , at a snail's pace that had you not slept . So just the mental boost and the physical boost you get can can be a real game changer .
But I think people have it in their head that I got to keep moving as far as and as slow as I can to just be moving , and I'm not sure that's . I mean there's a lot of unknowns about 200 training . Still I don't think anyone's really got it nailed in yet as a here is exactly what you need to do . But sleep is a big one for me .
Yeah , yeah , I don't know that . I definitely think that it helped a lot . And , trying to make up time , I don't think that I would have sacrificed the sleep in order to make up the time .
So let's talk about the race itself then . Did you have a strategy going in and how did you plan to manage pacing and then nutrition ? And we talked a little bit about sleep there and then kind of look after yourself on it , because I think there's some really fairly long unsupported sections of that course as well .
So what was your strategy going into this race ? Some really fairly long unsupported sections of that course as well . So , like what , what was your strategy going into into this race ? How did you approach
¶ Ultra Race Strategy and Adaptation
it ?
So I was planning on and did start the race with Lisa Marie and Renee . You might've met them out at the sticks .
Oh yes , fatsal Griffins , hello .
Yeah .
Renee's an Arsenal fan , but I forgive him for that Cause he was kind of nice . He was a nice guy .
Yeah , at least Marie is a Broncos fan , so I have to get over that . There you go . I'm not sure how I can do that , yeah , so I started the race with them and kind of I was , you know trying to , you know trying to .
I had my own race strategy , but I also wanted to stick with them because they have way more experience with these longer distances than I do , and so it just kind of gave me a peace of mind not to go out too fast or too slow and just to relax .
And so that was kind of my strategy , kind of mooching off of their race strategy , until I got a pacer at 72 miles , gotcha , gotcha . Yeah , you know I have . I have a hard time with coming up with a complete race strategy and I put one together and for me it always seems to just go awry , like it never works out perfectly .
So it's kind of just more of like a parameter of like , yes , I want to do this , I should , you know .
Yeah , I think that's actually quite a good strategy in of itself . I mean , there's a lot of people , me included , that have built strategies for races where you plan out almost every what do I need to do to catch up , where am I going to be , you know ?
And so I kind of I I'm gravitating more towards giving yourself the latitude to kind of move around and just go with the flow a little bit . It seems way less stressful to me at a race that's already pretty , pretty stressful . So , yeah , I think there's a lot of merit in in just sort of maybe not have no plan , but just have broad swaths of okay .
I know I need to be here by around about this time , so that's what I'll shoot for , and I can go faster , slower in between and do what I want to do . I think that that seems like a way less stressful way to approach racing for me anyway .
Yeah , I mean that's ultra or ultra running . In a sense , right're adapting to the . You know the things that you can't see and you know it can . It can change so much . You can be feeling great and feel like , okay , well , I'm going to push here , just just go with the flow , really , and adapt on the go .
Um , my only main thing was like all right , well , I definitely want to stay ahead of cutoffs , and so that was my , that was my overarching , like you know , watch the cutoff time . I . I wanted to try to get about four hours ahead or more and stay there for the for the whole race .
That way , if something went , something went wrong , I had a little bit of cushion time , so we kind of went out . We kind of went out like the had a little bit of cushion time , so we kind of went out . The first section of the race starts on a bike path that goes around the Dillon Reservoir For a bike path . It has awesome views .
You can see the water and the mountains in the background and stuff . So for running through town to start the race , it , it , it was nice , you know , it gave us a chance to make up some time yeah before we hit the single track and technical so brilliant .
And now I don't think there were comparatively many folks running this race . Were there like 50 folks maybe , or , uh , maybe not quite that many , but there weren't a whole lot of folks running the 200 in the first place ? And I think , just looking at ultrasound up , about 50% of those finished and 50 didn't this go around .
So did you factor that into your strategy , like , hey , there's , there's a great possibility here that I might be alone for quite some time as I go through the mountains here . Was in your thinking at all and did it play out that way in the end , aside from renee and lisa ?
so that's kind of why I wanted to stay with them , because I was like I could be alone for a long time . And yeah , the race field started with 25 runners it I've I've started races with smaller than that . I think the smallest was seven , starting a hundred mile . So I wasn't necessarily worried with the numbers , but I did kind of have the mindset going in .
I was like man , I could be out there for a long time and not see anybody unless I was in the aid station . So I definitely was prepared for that and tried to just prepare my mind . Like you know , this 20 or 22 mile section that could take seven , eight hours or longer , you know if it goes bad .
So yeah , I had that player in my in my head , but it never really panned out that way . I was around or with somebody for all of the race , except for about like six miles . Yeah , yeah .
So let's , let's talk about the race then . So we've talked strategy and training , so how did the race itself go ? How did it unfold ? Did it go to plan ? Did you find yourself having to adapt your strategy a lot as you went like , how did how did this thing play out for you ? It ?
it played out better than I had
¶ Ultra Racing Endurance Challenges and Strategies
planned . Honestly , there's there wasn't any super low moments , which is crazy to say yeah that's awesome . I had some struggle moments , but yeah . So the race just , you know it kind of just flowed and I just took it aid station to aid station and focused on .
I had a little cheat sheet that was laminated in my pack and it had like all the stats for between each aid station , how long my estimated time and stuff like that , and I just kept it at that , trying to keep it very small minded , focused on okay , this is what I got to do to get to this aid station .
So breaking it up like that was , I think , a huge reason that it was a success . Every time I have thought of , well , I've got 70 more miles or 50 more miles and you're in a low , that can be really daunting .
But if you just say to yourself I've got nine more miles to this aid station or whatever it is , it makes it a lot more manageable and then you can ride that low to another high . I mean , the race is really just a roller coaster in terms of the actual terrain and the mental aspect of it .
Did you find any unexpected challenges out there that you hadn't thought about in advance , anything that you hadn't considered before you got out on the course , or did it all go to plan pretty much ?
You know , I don't think there was anything that stuck out that was crazy had to learn on the fly or something like that . The one thing I I knew going in was uh , not by experience , but other people had said , like your foot pain just from being on your feet , that long is , you know , it's another level than 100 and so I knew that .
But once you actually get there it's like , oh my , this is like , these are my only feet , this is the pain , uh , so that was probably the biggest struggle , just foot ache you know it was . It wasn't that I had a lot of blisters , I had a few , but it was just the pounding . I'm a bigger guy , so like that pounding on my feet .
So every aid station I would either sit and have people you know it's , it's nice when you can ask them and they're willing to bring it to you . Other races , like I'll just stand up and , you know , keep going . But this one I kind of took the approach like I'm going to be out here a while .
I should use use my uh crew and or the aid station volunteers that's what they're there for and they were awesome did you find your feet , uh , swelled up a lot ?
because I know when I I've done 200 , my ankles in particular and my feet swell , swelling and oh yeah , I had a plan for that .
I thought ahead , I asked somebody else . They gave me the thought to have a pair of shoes sized up . So I had a pair of shoes that was a size bigger and a size or size wide for the swelling and that that really helped . It was . It was an awesome , awesome tip . Going into this great tip that I think it really said .
I don't know if it saved the race , but it definitely helped on the back half .
Oh yeah , that , that foot pain . It really starts to annoy at you after a while and then you look down and you see your ankles , like you know , twice their normal width . I mean that can mess with your mind a little bit . Yeah , Now we talked about sleep . Did you have a defined strategy going into Summit 200 ?
Because I know they had sleep stations , I think that were available . Did you specifically plan to stop at those and how did that work out ? Or did you just kind of drop on the trail and and do what you wanted ?
Yeah , so so my rate , my sleep , did not go go to plan . So I did plan to sleep at all four of the sleep stations and take advantage of that . I knew that I get pretty sleepy at night Every race , you know , I've gotten sleepy . Caffeine doesn't always work and so I planned to sleep .
I think it was like a total of I want to say like six to seven hours total , and I had broke it up between each aid station , like the first one . I was like just get like like a 30 minute nap to an hour and then keep going . But yeah , that that the first one I'll get to there .
The the that first night was I was so happy that I was not alone . There was . There was definitely a couple of spots where , if you were super sleep deprived , you could fall off and roll down the mountain , and so I was like I'm really glad that I wasn't alone .
But it seemed like the four of us that were together were all kind of struggling a little bit with staying awake . But it helped that we were all together and we had to . You know , every like two miles or so we would sit and take like a five minute , just close your eyes and then keep going yeah just to get us through that .
That first night was it was rough , I'm not gonna lie . It was , uh , it was one of the more rough nights , just because of the , the sleep . I mean , I was trying to stay awake , but I don't know how you combat that .
Yeah , this is the first night that you were out there .
Yeah , the very first night I was like , oh great , this is going to be a rough ride . What a precedent to set . Yeah , like oh my gosh .
This is going to be a challenge .
Yeah , so we got through it . It's like hours longer than I had planned on my sheet and I that's kind of when you just say , just survive , let's roll with it yeah , just go with it . You know we got to the aid station at like five . Back to the .
This was the north fork loop , so the , the night section , was actually the longest section of the first day and it said it was about 16 miles . We all came out with our watches saying it was around like 19 miles . I don't know if that's even accurate .
It might have been like our downtime , like you know , just adding some time on there , but yeah , and the watch gps is moving yeah so but we got , we got back to the aid station and the once you got back there , that was when you could use the sleep tent and the cots and stuff and I got back there and there I was . I was really surprised there was .
There was no room in the end . Oh really , yeah , there was enough runners that everybody was still sleeping .
Oh .
And they said there was like three runners that had just came in within like 30 minutes to an hour , and I was like I'm not kicking anybody out . The rule was the person that's been sleeping the longest will give up their spot for the next person . And I was like I'm not doing that , they just got there .
So I ended up just taking a dirt nap in my bivy bag and it worked out great . I had the aid station workers there keeping an eye on me so I wasn't like worried about like waking up . I said , hey , can you guys wake me up in a little bit ? And yeah , it was good . I was cold .
Yeah , I was pretty cold I think that night and that morning was the coldest stretch of the race or coldest point .
We were down by a Creek for part of it and had to do a Creek crossing at like four in the morning and yeah , and then , yeah , just coming from Kansas right now it's most days it's , you know , high , high , 90s , high humidity and going to Colorado was kind of a shock , with it being 35 degrees that morning .
So I had there's some pictures , but I had all my layers , all my layers almost on Everything everything in my pack like layers almost on Everything , Everything in my pack Like put it on man . Yeah , I was being a baby . And then like as soon as you start the climb , you know you're going to take it off .
But you know , you got to do what you got to do and stay comfortable .
What were the swings of temperature ? I mean , it was 35 and that was the coldest . What was the average , would you have said ?
what was the average , would you have said ? Is it , was it like 40s , 50s , up to the 80s ? Most of the most of the nights were then in the low 40s to mid 40s , uh , and then the the high temperatures during the day , maybe like 73 , 75 , something like that .
I never actually looked at I I didn't have the weather on my phone , but what you you weren't checking the weather halfway up a mountain , uh , during the day , no , no , no , all right . Three , three quick questions for you then , jonathan , just as we're going .
Favorite parts of the race for you , segment that you liked most or least , and favorite aid station oh , favorite section I think would have to be from Hall Valley to Lodgepole , from mile 100 to 122 . And you climb up this Jeep road and go up to a summit and the views were just amazing .
And you kind of hit that section twice , but from a different mountain range , so you can see where you were the day before and see how far you've come , knowing like how much time has passed from the point that you were just there and you did this like crazy , crazy loop to get back up to there .
And then , uh , then there's a section like you're climbing the ridge and you gotta , it wasn't like dangerous fault . Well , if you went to the edge it would have been , but you got a basically a cliff on either side and that section it was just .
You had high altitude , awesome views , and then it ended with getting to run on the color Trail down to the lodgepole aid station . So I think that was my favorite section .
¶ Epic Ultra Race Finish and Crew
Favorite aid station . I mean they're all pretty good with Ultraverse usually . I mean they don't mess around with aid stations . But was there a particular favorite , either a location or just something happened there . I'm going to have to there , or a food .
I'm going to have to say Francie's Cabin , and not because it was inside , it was the only aid station that was indoors , but at the point of the race it was pretty hot then being able to get inside , out of the sun and just chill .
Casey's parents were there , Ken and Kim , Uh , and so they , you know they they're some of the best volunteers ever , they , you know , they just they joke with you , they always have a smile on their face and but they take real good care of all the runners .
And Kim had actually I had told her I was like where's at one of the earlier aid stations , like where's all the watermelon , Like she knows ? Well , she doesn't know Watermelon's like one of my favorite things at aid station . And so there wasn't watermelon at all the aid stations and or any of them that I noticed .
And so there wasn't watermelon at all the aid stations and or any of them that I noticed . And so I get to francie's cabin at 157 miles and she has cold watermelon . I almost cried over watermelon . Yeah , it was . It was amazing , yeah , but yeah , just the . I mean like every aid station had great hot food ready to .
You know , they would ask you what you want and make it on the spot Excellent . Nobody was leaving without their hot food , but all the aid stations were great .
Yeah , and we talked about altitude too , and of course that's a big thing in this race , talked about altitude too , and of course that's a big thing in this race . It starts at what ? Nine thousand feet and goes up to , I think we said , twelve and a half or just a little bit , just a little bit over that , and it never goes below nine thousand feet .
So how did , how did you , how did you deal with that , coming from kansas ? Were you there in advance ? Did you spend time acclimating , if I can say it right , did you feel it at all as you were going through the course ?
Yeah , so my very first hundred mile attempt was out in Fairplay , colorado and that's my only DNF so far . But the altitude really , really kicked my butt on that one . And I didn't acclimate before . Like I had showed up two days before the race and went out and tried it and felt like an elephant was on my chest . It was so hard to breathe .
So I knew , before Leadville and these other ones , it's like I spent basically a week before doing Leadville and it really helped . And so before this I was like , if I'm gonna do this , I'm like if I'm going to do this , I'm going to , you know , make the effort to acclimate .
So I came out eight days before the race and was just uh , dirt , bagging it out of my van , was lucky enough to have some things to do . Like I got to go , uh mark part of the course with Chase and I put together drop bags and stuff like that to occupy my mind and time .
But yeah , just getting out there early , I had some friends running High Lonesome and so I got to go down and help with that and see them and it just it made the whole experience that much better , just getting out the not just acclimate , but , you know having good things to do , and I was never bored , so yeah , well , talking to friends too , I I think you
had a crew out there supporting you during the race .
If I remember , maybe you just had paces , I'm not sure . Did you have a crew and if so , how did they contribute to your success ? And , you know , were there any sort of key moments where their support really made the difference between you carrying on or not carrying on ? Or talk about the crew . I love crews , man .
They don't get their dues a lot of the time . So definitely want to give a shout out if you've had any folks out there helping .
So I had an awesome crew and awesome pacer . They , the crew , was the , my crew and they were both crewing and both pacing . So I had scott hagerty was crewing and then he was pacing the back half of the race and so it made a huge difference .
I think , seeing seeing other people that didn't have a crew versus me having one I I don't know that I would do this . Some people do it and they choose to not have crew , not have pacers , and I like that challenge , they like being the solo for me .
I love the experience and bringing people along with it that are willing to help , and so it made all the difference for me in this race having them . They did awesome . Scott was crewing and then Ashley Forche I met her running at Outlaw and just by talking during another race . She's well , I live out there , I'll pace you if you need somebody , and it was .
It just worked out . I mean , it was awesome . They , they both . I had never had them crew or pace me , and so I was like this is going to be a fun experience , just here we go yeah new new thing , but they did awesome . I mean , they're both , uh , seasoned veterans when it comes to ultra running , and so it wasn't like I was picking a newbie , yeah .
So ashley paced me from 72 miles to 133 , and then scott jumped in and paced me the rest of the way in .
That's some good pacing right there , 60 , 70 miles apiece .
Yeah .
Yeah , that's some good stints .
They did not have an easy job .
Yeah , across all that terrain . That's a tough pacing game right there .
But just having somebody to have a conversation with and they respected the time when I needed to just be silent and just didn't , you know , be in my own head and my own thoughts and stuff . But just having them . There was confidence and it was awesome . It was enjoyable with both of them . They did a great job with both of them .
They did a great job . So talk us through , if you would , the final section , crossing the line . What were you feeling as you went over that line ? What kind of state were you in at that point ? And then and when you got across the line , was your ? Family there , or right ?
yeah . So the section going into the last aid station is a high ridge and we hit that at night . It had just stormed and stuff and we , finally we get down a super long descent into the last aid station and I decide I'm good on time with the cutoffs so I want to get some good sleep . So I get some good sleep . The , the crew is out there .
My friend jonathan came to to just hang out and crew and , uh , see me across the finish line . So , having them all there , I got some sleep . We took out , uh , just before sunrise on the . That would have been the fifth day , friday . Yeah , that would have been friday .
So going into the fifth day yeah , which is crazy to say , uh , that was just , it was . I could not wrap my head around that . I had been going all week .
So we start out , it starts with a bike path and then you get on to some beautiful sections of , like the colorado trail and other trails that are connected to it and there wasn't any like crazy climbing . There's just some gradual climbs that you know , a couple , you know , maybe like 800 , 2000 feet here and there .
Like it wasn't , it wasn't a bad , bad section the last 19 miles from that aid station . So we just , you know , just kept rolling . It was a slow going pace .
I was really feeling the fatigue , then just focused on the present few miles ahead of me and once we finally got a view of the , the start finish , from up on the mountain , it was like this is crazy , this is real . It's like this is this is the end , coming in , and we jumped down to . We had one last ascent .
It goes down and then you take the , a roundabout way to catch on to a bike path and that bike path takes you right to the finish and like I was just riding on adrenaline and like ready to run this , and Scott's like calm down , you're good , like let's just , let's just chill .
So we enjoyed that that time and walked it into the finish and then ran the last , like a hundred yards , and just having having the aid station workers that you had seen throughout the race and chasing Casey and the the photographers , like getting to know them during during the race . It was . It was an awesome finish .
I I couldn't help but tear up the end and just reliving the All of that time and effort that you spent in training and in the race and it all coming to fruition with a finish was just . It was my race experience . Looking back on it as a whole , I said to myself I was like this is my favorite race experience out of all the races that I've done .
Just the compilation of it all playing out it was a pretty special one .
¶ Ultra Racing Evolution and Skyline Scramble
Looking back , Jonathan , do you feel like there's anything you would change , either if you were to do this again or if somebody else was going to go do this race ? Would there be anything you would do differently ?
A lighter pack . Would there be anything you would do differently ? A lighter pack , lighter pack . I would narrow it down to the bare essentials on the pack . I think my pack ended up weighing about 15 or 16 pounds .
You know you can't change the mandatory gear , but there was just some other things that I think I could have lost out of my pack to make it lighter , because having a really heavy pack for that extended amount of time was my shoulders were toast at the end . I don't know how through hikers do it .
I tell you , a lot of practice . I guess I don't know , I don't know , all right , awesome . Now this was , I think , as we mentioned early on , the inaugural running of the Summit 200 . How do you see this race evolving ?
Do you think this has the potential to become very much a staple in the ultra running space , especially for mountain 200s , and is there anything you think ? I mean could it be more challenging , or what would make it more attractive for future participants if you had your say ?
I mean , I think overall , the course and everything was it was stunning . It was extremely hard . You know they could leave the course the way it is and I think it would still grow each and every year . I know that there is several comments about like course marking and stuff that they're for sure going to rethink .
I mean , knowing them , they're going to take it as healthy criticism and make changes for the better . I see this summit as being a staple , like 200 in the US . I mean , you have that high elevation and being in summit county , it's just like you get to experience summit county in a whole new way . And , yeah , I think the only way forward is it growing .
Yeah , they're capping their race . They they always want to keep it somewhat small and so they're capping their race at a hundred and I have I think that they're going to sell out whether this next year or the following year . So I only see it growing from there and I think they , for an inaugural year , I think they did a phenomenal job .
They had some of the best volunteers that stepped up in a huge way with running multiple aid stations . So I think next year they can get more volunteers . So it's just less stress on some of them , but as a whole I think they did a phenomenal job with what they had to work with . Getting the permits and stuff somewhat late .
They did say for the inaugural year that the permits they couldn't issue the permits until the actual physical year that you run that first race , and so I knew that that was . That had to have been crazy stressful for them , but they did a great job yeah , just that permitting side of things just seems mind-blowing .
From the amount of different localities I guess that you're running through there , you probably need to get permitting from up in the mountains , just seems .
Even that on its own just seems like a hell of an effort yeah , being a race director myself , I said there would be absolutely no way I would take on something like that yeah , you've really got to want to do this race .
I think to uh , to to go through the challenge of getting those permits , especially on the back of KT225 . And what happened there , as you were alluding to in the beginning . I bet they had some PTSD over the whole permit situation . Yeah , now for you , specifically , jonathan . Now that you have successfully tackled Summit 200 , what's next on your radar ?
Are you considering another 200 ? Has that whetted your appetite for that distance , or do you have your sights set on some other type of challenge ?
I'm pretty confident that I'll try another 200 in the future . It won't be for several years . I've got a daughter on the way , so I'm going to be focusing on family a lot more . I just need to be more present than usual . But I've got an idea for next year . There's a fun duo race .
They combine like if you do the two races then you get a buckle with Hill Creek 140 and the Heartland 125 . And so they're both in Kansas and I might go after that next year . We'll see . But that's kind of what's piquing my interest right now .
The the two races are two weeks apart from each other oh nice , yeah , so that really is like like smashing them together almost yeah , that'd be a new experience for me , because I typically need like a month or more to recover . So you and me both . Yeah , I need a hell of a long time these days to recover , for sure .
Yeah , now you , you mentioned rocking chair running and I mentioned skyline scramble . Yeah , prior to getting into this . So before we go , definitely want to give you a little bit of a opportunity to tell us about that race and where the idea to start it came from . What can we expect if we go look up skyline scramble ?
so the skyline scramble kind of bore itself from the local community just kind of saying . I kept just hearing like , hey , we need , you know , it'd be awesome if we had , you know , a local race , a local trail trail race , you know , because we we've had a half marathon and other road races and stuff .
But there was , to my knowledge , since I've been in running , there was nothing in topeka for trails , and so it kind of grew from that , that idea , and I kind of tossed it out there with my to my wife and she was like , well , yeah , I mean , if you really want to do it , and so it was kind of scary for me .
Honestly , I'm not the I've never been a very like public vocal person , like public speaking terrifies me and stuff . And I knew that , like as a race director . I was like , well , I'm gonna have to get over that fear and yeah , front and center yeah so .
But yeah , the the skyline scramble kind of came from that and we were like what , what trails do we want to do it on ? What kind of race do we want to do it on ? And I felt like talking with ed west about it , my core d and justin we kind of came up with the idea of doing it or not .
We didn't come up with the idea , but we figured that a timed race would be the best fit . It would lend itself to have like a lot of newer people come into trail running and have that low stress .
Yeah .
Meaning you only got to finish the first loop . Yeah , no cutoffs really . Yeah , exactly . So you come out , you push yourself to your own limit and what you want to do in that three , six or 12 hours is completely up to you . Just have fun . Yeah , that's what we went with for the first one , so I'm looking at making a couple more races .
It's slow going with permitting it's always the .
Permitting it's always the permitting , so we'll see Brilliant Awesome . Well , yes , folks , get out and give Skyline Scramble a look . If you are in Topeka , kansas , go look up Skyline Scramble and see if you can sign up and run a distance out there . Now , each episode , jonathan , we do encourage guests to choose a song to add to the free Spotify .
Choose to Enjoy playlist . Something family-friendly . Maybe it lifts you up , motivates you or just kind of keeps you moving while you're out on the trail . Now , you had a really good song I think that you picked , at least for me anyway , I like this kind of music .
So do you want to tell the folks out there which song you picked and why it resonates with you ?
It's Steep Climb . I can't remember the artist . Do you remember the artist's name ?
I think it was Eric Gales and I remember distinctly Zach Wilde is on guitar on that , who is a big and that's why , like he's a big Ozzy Osbourne guy , right .
So but yeah , this is a bluesy rock kind of tune stuck out to me just being very applicable to climbing in the mountains or just just running in general , like you could use the the mountain lyrics as a metaphor for , you know , getting through training , and so it was just . It was it's just , it just stuck out to me it was a good song yeah .
So the song again is called steep climb and I I jotted down some of the lyrics because I thought I mean , first off , it's a great song , and I listened to some more of Eric Gale's right after this song too , and they're all pretty good . But on this song specifically , I jotted down some lyrics .
It says to make it to the top of the mountain is definitely going to be a steep climb . I mean , that's life and well , definitely the race you were running at the time . But yeah , isn't that the way life is ? You got to . You know there are steep climbs to get to the top of the mountain .
And then he goes on to say when you think you can't take it , you got to stay strong for one more mile . I mean how applicable is that ? That couldn't be more applicable to a racer . So I thought , yeah , bang on lyrics , and definitely great motivation for an ultra running song , even more so when you're halfway up a mountain in Colorado .
So , yeah , great choice , I like that one . We'll get that added so that other folks can enjoy it as much as you , and I definitely have done so .
As we begin to wrap up the episode , I want to extend huge thanks to Jonathan for sharing his incredible journey through this brand new race the Summit 200 , which I think is going to become a really big monster of a race in years to come .
It's got epic scenery , it's got epic mountains , an epic route and really epic altitude and vert to test even the most serious runners out there .
His story is a testament to the resilience and determination that really defines ultra running communities , but especially those of us that are near the rear end of the pack , that never give up attitude and they keep pushing forwards , from the flatlands of Kansas to the towering peaks of Summit County .
Jonathan's experience is definitely an inspiration to all of us listening , whether you're taking on your first 50K or your very first 200 miler .
So I hope that the insights Jonathan has shared into his training and the mental approach and really the beauty of embracing crazy challenges leaves you motivated to pursue your own running goals , no matter how daunting they may seem .
¶ Promoting Ultraverse and Skyline Scramble
And , jonathan , if listeners out there are interested , where can they go to find out more about Ultraverse as an ambassador yourself , about the Skyline Scramble , or indeed follow you on future journeys ?
Yeah , they can look up Ultraverse supplements on their website . It lists all their races too on their website . It lists all their races too , and then they have a blog below there . That kind of is more in depth if you want to know more about each supplement and how to use those in training . But they've all worked great for me .
I wouldn't be an ambassador if I didn't believe in the product . Yeah , people can follow me on Strava if they want . If you want to follow my running or if you want to get in contact , you can find me on Facebook .
Awesome and Skyline is on Ultra sign-up .
Yeah , it's on Ultra sign-up . The race is March 1st next year , so you've got plenty of time to sign up .
Yes , absolutely , and as an that's difficult to say at this point on a Sunday afternoon , as an Ultraverse ambassador , do you have a code to use as well ?
I know sometimes that's out there . Yeah , rockingshare10 will get you 10% off and you can combine that with any other code or you can just use my name if there's a better deal on the website , so as a referral .
Fantastic . Well , I will put all of that information into the show notes for this episode , so you scroll down to the show notes and click links and you'll be able to go to any or all of those spots while you're out on the internet .
Don't forget to subscribe to the show here as well , to get notified each time a new episode comes out and , of course , follow , share and review . It would be very much appreciated .
Doing any of those things really helps promote the podcast , which , in turn , gets the word out , gets the information out and increases chances of other runners like you and I finding the information that awesome guests such as Jonathan have given up their time to come and share with us .
You can find us on Instagram , facebook , over at choose to endurecom , so be sure to head over to any of those spots , check us out , send a message , say hello or suggest a topic if you have a moment . I love getting all those interactions . So , until then , run long , run strong and keep choosing to endure .