Fueling for the Long Haul: Expert Nutrition Tips for Ultra Runners with Gaby Villa of IntensEATfit

If you haven't had a moment to do so yet , please consider heading over to your favorite podcast app hit , follow , rate the show and , if you're getting something of value , leave a review and let others know . My name is richard gleave . I've been running ultras now since 2017 .

I have taken on and finished numerous ultra distances , all the way up through 220 miles , and I am unashamedly a member of the back of the pack , just like you . Now let me ask you all a question out there . Are you struggling with low energy during your long runs , or perhaps dealing with gut or nutritional issues that disrupt your performance ?

Do you want to learn how to make food your superpower ? Well , stay tuned to today's episode as we dive into these questions with our guest , gabby Villa . Gabby is a sports nutritionist , dietitian and founder of Intense Eat Fit . She specializes in optimizing performance for ultra runners by making food their best ally in sport and life .

Over the past decade , gabby has supported hundreds of athletes , including get this former backyard ultra world record holder , phil Gore , to overcome lack of energy and gut upset so that they can fuel their bodies with confidence and race to their full potential .

After overcoming her struggles with body image and weight concerns for several years , gabby has witnessed and lived the benefits of seeing food beyond its nutrients . Gabby is on a mission to empower people to fuel with purpose while building a happy and strong body . She strives to contribute to a world that enables and promotes a healthy and active lifestyle .

So stick around to learn more about how you can transform your nutrition , enhance your performance and feel more confident in yourself . We'll be right back Quicker than a cheetah on Red Bull .

Often is also , unfortunately , because they had a bad experience at the last race and they want to change that , and even though nutrition is , of course , extremely important for that , my recommendation in terms of the best area to start with is with what you're doing on the daily , specifically , what's happening around training is where you're going to get the biggest

benefit if you are deliberate about how you're tackling your nutrition around that and the way .

Well , first off , when you do your training session , of course , what we want is our body to have some adaptation so that way we can see the benefit of even more successful experience when you go to that event , and that's something that comes hand in hand in terms of planning your nutrition for your race day and also making sure that your race day experience is

optimal . And , yeah , to me that that would be like the best area to start with in terms of how you are working on your nutrition before , during and after training and , of course , as a partner , it's like even during the whole day . It doesn't have to be complicated .

That's why it probably puts a lot of people off in terms of thinking that well OK , so now I'm supposed to be looking at eating very elaborate meals , or what does this mean ? And there are very simple things that we can work on to make sure that what you are eating is supporting your body as best as possible .

So , for example , carbohydrates and fats they are giving us energy , proteins I call them builders , because they are supporting our muscles and structure function essentially and fruits and vegetables they are giving us vitamins , minerals , fiber , so I call them regulators .

So , essentially , we have the energetics , which is the carbohydrates , fats , we have the builders and we have the regulators . So the best thing that you can do if you're heading into the kitchen is make sure that . All right . How can I have a nice plate that has all three things ? So , let's say you didn't cook anything and it's a really last minute thing .

So , okay , well , I have bread , so I'm going to put some toast there excellent . We have the energetic , and maybe I have some ham that I have left over there Okay , perfect , that's some extra , some protein . I'll have the meal there . I don't love the idea of ham on its own , so I'm going to add some cheese Fantastic .

And I'm going to chop some tomato as well , because that way is adding that regulator . It takes five minutes and it's a complete meal there .

If you want to get fancier , of course there's the option of cooking and everything , but as long as you're ticking those three boxes , your body will be very grateful in terms of having that nice balance and those extra nutrients . That can be very quickly to set up .

When we're out on course , or even maybe before we get on course , how should slower runners manage our energy intake differently from perhaps , the faster runners , considering that , hey , we're going to be out there quite a bit longer than those zoomy folks up front ?

For you , like , in terms of how hard you're pushing , depending on that , obviously , that's something that most people can be aware of in terms of like , yeah , I know that I'm pushing really hard , but actually , no , I like taking my time , I like to .

I don't like the idea of feeling like I'm panting the whole way , so I do take my time , right , like the idea of feeling like I'm panting the whole way , so I do take my time .

So let's assume that is on , that in that situation , it's like okay , I know that I'm not necessarily it is hard because it's an ultra , it's going to be hard , but let's assume that the intensity is not as high . One very , very important thing is to not disregard the value of nutrition , because that's something I see often .

For example , someone approaches me and they are like oh , I'm not an elite athlete , so I feel like maybe I shouldn't , like I don't need to look at my nutrition , but just thought that maybe you have a tip that I could implement . When , in reality , your body is using a lot of energy .

Your body requires that nutrition to get through and , even though perhaps you're not looking at getting to that podium or top 10 or 20 or whatever finishers , still you want to have an enjoyable experience and nutrition will enable that .

So , in terms of things to look at , one is that , yes , for example , in terms of the front of the pack , runners , most of them are shifting towards increasing their carbohydrate intake per hour .

So , looking at beyond 90 grams of carbohydrate per hour For someone who is , let's say , in that I would say , half the back of the pack , it's not as necessary to chase that really high carbohydrate intake , but it's still really important to prioritize carbohydrates .

The benefit of , let's say , not moving at higher intensity is that we can use carbohydrates that are a little bit more complex . Let's say so , for example , for someone who is chasing that high carbohydrate intake , most of what they are going to consume has to be very simple .

So energy gels , drinks and things like that , in this case in terms of the the back of the pack , let's say , would be probably more easy to consume food .

So have sandwiches , have bars , have a fruit pouch or those things that are a little bit , take longer to be processed , but what they do is they are giving you energy that is more sustainable , so you don't have to have like that constant influx of it .

The other thing to consider is that of course , I'm saying sandwiches versus I know , hang on , I'm not going to be running with a picnic basket . We also need to make sure that it's practical .

So in that case , yes , still , energy gels , a sports drink is going to be helpful to have , but we can add a little bit more variety in that case , and the benefit of doing that is that by adding that variety , nutrition becomes more manageable as well , because it's not as repetitive and it's a little bit more interesting to do so .

So that's where I would like to be looking at in terms of the type of options that we have . So that's where I would like to be looking at in terms of the type of options that we have In terms of the quantity . My suggestion would be to start with the smaller portions and from there , find a quantity that you find comfortable .

I see that a lot of the times , we can go very extreme in terms of like , oh , I'm not going too fast , so probably I'm okay with , let's say , eating a sandwich every two hours , which please don't't do that .

I would suggest eating something way more frequently , or the other extreme in terms of oh , my cousin told me that energy gels are the way to go on .

metabolize more ? Normal food versus gels and sort of maybe the drink mix stuff , normal food versus gels and and sort of maybe the drink mix stuff . Is there an argument for that or is it ? No , you know , stick to what the race is providing and stick to your drink mix .

So , for example , let's say in that first approach , in terms of I have food and let's say per hour you're eating , and it changes . I hope anyone listening is not taking this like okay , gabby's saying two sandwiches per hour , but let's say you're eating the equivalent of .

Let's say you're eating the equivalent of let's say , a sandwich and a banana every 70 minutes , 80 minutes , let's say , and then at the end , because let's say you stop standing , that you shift to okay , now I need to eat one energy gel every 40 minutes , or something like that yeah well , instead of doing that , what we can do is like , okay , what if we

incorporate and we have , let's say , a sandwich at 40 minutes , and then you have the energy gel at one hour , 20 , and then you have the banana .

So that way it's like , at the end you have an energy gel every , let's say , two and a half hours , the sandwiches more spread across the banana as well , and other options that you have , and it makes it way more manageable while supplying energy . That is going to be quite helpful in sustaining that effort as well .

So that will be my suggestion in terms of whether relying on what's available on the course , in terms of the eight stations , I think that depends on one . What are your preferences ? It depends on one . What are your preferences ?

As in like , if you are prioritizing food and eight seasons are going to supply that , it's probably helpful to consider a lot of that food from that .

If you are actually , let's say , having intolerances or prefer to have your own things , well , just know that you will need to rely on whatever you have on your pack or your drop bag or something like that to make sure that that continues to work for you .

And of course , with that , there comes in the less harm scenario you just have a very sad sandwich at the bottom of your pack that it's like almost squashed . In the worst case scenario it goes off because you've been there for so long and you decided that that cheese sandwich was a good idea towards the end of the race and it's no longer safe to consume

.

When people ask me , like , why should I put in the sandwich my , what I ?

My response is like , I don't care , because what to me what matters is the bread , like , that's the , like the , the sheep carrying everything else yeah so essentially , the reason the sandwich is so good is because we have that carbohydrate from the bread , really important in the case of a race .

Please use white bread , not wholemeal , because we want to reduce fiber . Interesting and of course , if you have intolerances we'll look at like whatever bread works for you . But in terms of what to put inside , like that's why I love them you can have peanut butter and jam you can have . I haven't cheese tuna .

Here in australia we have vegemite that a lot of people some people love it , some others on cabby , I can't do vegemite .

So , for example , just like boiled potatoes with some butter and salt and you just wrap them in tin foil so you have them there .

Depending on the race format , for example , rice is also a good one , but that probably works better for backyard ultras , where you have access to if eight in each station more frequently and you don't have to be carrying your rice container . Yeah , mashed potato as well .

And in terms of like not the solely like the sweet options , well , those ones are very easy . There's there's bars , and if we think of like real food which , by the way , all food is real because it exists it's like we can . We can touch it . Well , I do understand is , let's say , homemade right there are . You can make raw balls .

So , for example , like with peanut butter , another degree , as there are many recipes out there that can work for you . The benefit , the benefit I see from , let's say , homemade food , is that you can make it to your liking .

If you like something a little bit sweeter or more savory , or there are particular ingredients that you need to avoid or you like including , it is possible to do so . The downside of the food is that it doesn't keep as well , so that's why the packaged food is way more convenient .

Often in is a smaller portion , like size and like has more density to it , which makes it really easy to to carry and to have with you , especially if you are limited in terms of how much you can have with you absolutely .

So now that we've eaten all this food during our run , do you have any tips or advice on how we as runners can sort of prevent the GI issues that might arise as we're out there doing extended running ?

Of course , this is a I don't know . I say sensitive but complicated but complicated topic , because the thing with hydration is that it's not as easy to prescribe as , let's say , carbohydrate .

In terms of , if you ask me carbohydrate , I can give you ranges of like this many grams to this many grams per hour , and people need to find their sweet spot In terms of hydration . It is such a wide range of needs that the best advice I can give is make sure you're aware of your thirst and drink accordingly to it .

So , of course , to do that , that you have water with you . But if you start being prescriptive about your fluid intake , you can overdo it or underdo it . So the best thing is , like every 10 minutes , check if you are thirsty , if you are drink . If you are not , check again in 10 minutes . And if you are well , you are drink .

If you are , not check again in 10 minutes and if you are well , then go ahead . So that's one . Hydration plays a key role there

. The next one is the gut training . So , as we said at the start , often we are worried about the race nutrition and during training our food choices are very different . Many times I speak with people who run and they don't eat anything beforehand and they don't understand why .

If they were eating a sandwich in the middle of the run , their stomach couldn't handle it . It's like , well , it was not used to have any food at all . So that gut training makes a big difference . And the next one is also having the opportunity , while you're doing that , that training , to explore how your body is responding to these foods .

But there's more stress where likely it's going to be like the conditions are different . It's going to be less likely that you're going to be happy with that inconvenience that you detected over training . And the other one is , as you are doing that , like noticing what is your sweet spot in terms of how much food you are comfortable consuming .

Right , yeah , how much food you are comfortable consuming , right , yeah , and the last thing I was going to say is that the answer is not not eating , because that can make things way worse .

So the way , essentially the way your gut responds to well , actually , the way these gut issues are manifested is because one of the key things is well , you are exercising , and when you're exercising , your blood is redirected to your muscles , because that's where you are needing it more . So it means that the blood flow to your gut is restricted .

And if you don't eat , so it means that you are not giving work to your gut . That blood flow is even less . So it means that it comes to the point where there could even be tissue damage because your , your gut , is not having any circulation there .

So by eating , you are allowing your gut to like , request resources that keep it active and that , when the other part comes in , as long as you do have that gut training , because otherwise it's like , if you think of it , literally the same as training your legs .

If you never go for a run and then suddenly decide I'm going to run 100K tomorrow , well , we all know that that's very unlikely to be successful . We need to have that training . It's literally the same for the gut .

And Gabby , you did touch on electrolytes a little bit there and I wanted to talk to some degree on those because you know , every time we run especially here in Texas and really anywhere where it's hot , but especially here where it's humid as well as hot you know electrolyte balance is a big deal and it goes up and down , and so how can we effectively manage

our electrolyte balance during long training runs or races and how do we know if we're off ? What are some of the signs of an imbalance in electrolytes ? How would that maybe manifest ? What should we be looking for to sort of cut that off and address it quickly ?

One thing in terms of like , how those electrolytes are lost is , of course , through sweat , which is the main way in which our body is losing those electrolytes , predominantly sodium , and that's why I only talk about sodium , because all the other electrolytes , as important as they are , very likely you don't need to worry about because you are not losing them in

significant amounts , and when you are eating there's like you are consuming them , even if you are not eating a particular electrolyte supplement . Your food will have them . But even though sodium , for example , if we go to the cheese and ham like , it's present there .

But we need to be more conscious about it , especially as the race gets longer and as your sweat rate increases . So , in terms of what are the things that we need to be aware of , one is , to start with , how heavy sweater you are . So the more you sweat , the more likely your sodium losses are going to be higher .

However , there are people who potentially don't sweat as much , but their sweat is really salty . So in that case , even though your sweat rate is not as high as someone else's , your sodium losses could be significant anyway . So , in terms of how do we make sure that this is not of concern ?

One is definitely including an electrolyte drink , often a sports drink , which , if you are going to add electrolytes , to me are the preferred option because they also have carbohydrate . So you are taking two boxes at the same time you're getting energy and you're getting the electrolytes , so those often will have a component of sodium .

The other thing to be aware of is that when you're eating , most foods actually have a good amount of sodium , especially if we think of more like the real food , let's say so that is helpful , helpful . And then on top of that , that's when , for example , when I work with my athletes , we do calculate exactly how much sodium they are getting .

So it's easier to say if , potentially , a salt capsule or something extra is required . I would say that for most cases , if we have that electrolyte , that the sports drink plus the food , you are already in a good sodium range .

However , if you want to be like , okay , just in case , perhaps an electrolyte salt tablet every couple of hours just to make sure that things are there , but I still would advise looking at calculating that or making sure that you are not overdoing it .

Now , in terms of overdoing it , it's hard to get to that point , like you have to be , let's say , eating instant noodles and then a salt tablet every 30 minutes , to be actually like okay , now sodium is crazy , which is unlikely , but it is possible . Especially if you are doing things like that .

It's like well , my friend told me that these capsules are a good idea and you're having that , and then you're having the drink that is boosted in sodium , and then you also have the cliff logs that are extra sodium . So suddenly you have a lot . So , in terms of signs to look at when the and this is a complicated one .

So please know that it is an option . It doesn't mean that it's the option .

So , in terms of size , for example , when the sodium or the electrolyte component is low , one of the things that often people experience is that they are peeing too frequently , and the thing is that sodium helps with fluid retention , so by increasing the sodium intake , it can be helpful to reduce that pee frequency . Now it has a pee frequency .

That's something that many people ask me . It's up to you .

You are the one realizing it's more frequent than your normal , because some people actually they do pee frequently , but frequently for someone else's standards , but for them it's like oh , actually , this is my normal , so it's being aware of how frequently you pee and from there , if it's more than usual , then it's likely or the chance of you needing extra sodium

is there , and the other one as well , and that's when it's getting into the dangerous space and that's when we need to be very careful . And that's why the liquid intake is quite a reason of concern .

If you are overdoing your fluid intake , even if it has electrolytes , but if you are drinking way more than what you are losing , the risk of you diluting the concentration of sodium in your blood is quite high and that is very dangerous . That's where we're heading into the hyponatremia .

That is a concern because that's when people start getting dizzy , they have headaches and it can be catastrophic if we push it to the extreme . Unfortunately , in some instances it can manifest , for example , that headache and getting dizzy is like , oh , I need to drink more water , and then you're drinking more and actually you're making it worse .

So that's why it is important to stay to that like drink there's which is very , very important and , in terms of like , if you are overdoing it , probably also similar to the people in this case who are going in the other end , where it's like , okay , I know I'm drinking fluid , but like I actually haven't gone to the toilet , so what's going on ?

So it's it's , it's a difficult one . That is one of the things that let's say is actually what I'm sharing over the piece , not necessarily being documented . This is based on my observations working with people and how , like by changing the ratio of the sodium , like the disease resolve .

So it's very important to be aware of how your body responds under different circumstances , and that's why the training is really helpful , because that's when you can bring that awareness and start noticing . So that way , when you get to race day , you can you can perceive those changes yeah , um , absolutely .

Can we figure out our own sweat rate or at least get a good idea , if not , if not as good as you guys , and that way we sort of have a base to go from at least oh , definitely so .

My recommendation especially is , if you are doing it from home , which makes it easier probably very complicated if you are in a public space , but ideally you want to strip down , essentially fully naked , and get on the scale . You get on the scale , you register that weight , then you go for a run . I would say ideally no longer than 90 minutes .

Probably the switchboard will be one hour . The reason for that is because the longer you're going for , the more factors we need to consider , such as your fluid intake , if you stopped at a toilet , if you ate something , so it's easier to not have to measure those things .

Ideally , you actually want to weigh as well , because even if it's one hour , especially if it's very warm , you do want to have some fluid intake throughout . So you also need to weigh . You grab your water bottle and you put it on the scale as well and you measure how much it was , how heavy it was before you went to your run .

Then you put your clothes back on you , head to your run , come home , weigh your water bottle after the run and also weigh yourself Once again , make sure you dry all your sweat , take your clothes off and record that weight .

So the difference that we had in between from your weight and also once you add the weight from the bottle , that is going to be your sweat rate , very important under those circumstances .

So things to consider the pace of which you're running , the time of the day , how hot it was , how windy it was , how humid it was if you were running in the sun or in the shade , was if you were running in the sun or in the shade .

The reason I'm making emphasis on that is because , let's say you were running and it was really hot , you were in the sun , it was very humid , your sweat rate and you were pushing hard , your sweat rate is going to be crazy high .

And then you take that value and you will have now a ultra in the winter and you are going at a slower pace and you are trying to get those , let's say , two liters and that way that your sweat rate suggests it probably is going to be very likely that now you're overdoing your hydration because that sweat rate is not consistent .

It changes a lot depending on the circumstances . So once you do that test , my suggestion would be like , in a few months or under different circumstances , do another one . So that way you get a reference of , let's say , at least four tests during the year .

So that way you know what it's like in the middle of summer , what it's like in the middle of winter , what about , like the in-between seasons ? So that way you have a better reference . It ultras sometimes in the same race .

You go through all those weathers because it's dark and it's really hot , that's cold , so it's beneficial to be aware of that , because at least it's a reference that you can keep in mind in terms of how much fluid your body typically loses when in those situations . I think it's it's . It's fascinating and something everybody should do .

I those who have listened to the show before I'm I when .

Those who have listened to the show before I know you know that I'm in Texas , so it's hot as crap most of the time here , so the sweat rate is off the chart for most of the year , but then come , you know , we have two cold months , really , January and February , and it's a completely different ballgame out there .

So knowing your sweat rate if I can say the word , properly , and having a good barometer for that in each of the seasons , let's say , I think is probably a really good idea to pair with your food intake that we were talking about just a minute ago oh , definitely , and a lot of people find their result extremely surprising , usually for most people , unless they

are aware that they are really heavy sweaters .

Like I don't see my sweat , but , yes , the fluid losses are there , so it's really worth it doing it .

So now we talked pre-run , we talked training and we talked a little bit about what we're doing during the run to manage GI distress and to get some calories in and then get the right electrolyte balance . How about post run , gabby ?

What should we be looking for from a recovery nutrition practice standpoint , for either long runs or , you know , at the end of each week we're training or after a race ? What should we be eating ? How soon should we be eating it to sort of maximize our recovery potential ?

Now , in terms of when , my suggestion is as soon as you can will be better , so the sooner the better , in general , to prioritize those ones .

If you have to choose and that's when the fitness world has made us believe that protein is the thing that we need to look at straight after training and it turns out that , yes , protein is important , but the window to replenish it is open for a long time .

So , yes , it is important that , let's say , in the 12 hours after your heart activity you don't consume protein .

But ideally , the thing that you want to prioritize straight afterwards is going to be carbohydrates , because the way your body replenishes that glycogen , the sooner you do it after training , the quicker it is going to be for your body to send it straight to your fuel tank , let's say so that's why it is helpful to make sure that you do have that carbohydrate .

The benefit of eating the carbohydrate with the protein first it makes it a tastier meal . For example , you can have your whole sandwich instead of having bread , or there are many different options . I'll try and think of different options instead of just sandwiches . And the other thing is that , physiologically , carbohydrate and protein help each other .

So by eating carbohydrates with protein , the carbohydrate is stored better and the protein is also stored better because of that combination , so it's helpful to eat them together .

So if you have to pick a time and let's say it is difficult to because when I say straight away , it's not like you cross the finish line or you pause your garment and you're like that , like eating straight away but ideally we want to say in the first hour we do want to have something and if not at least in the first two hours , that's what we want to

be looking at , a meal . So in the first hour is when we have , let's say , a smoothie or a shake or something like that . In the first two hours now we have the eggs on toast or we have the , even the hamburger , or a meal like , for example , I pull off pasta with some chicken . That's a good option as well .

It , of course , depends on what the activity was in the case of , let's say , was a one hour run .

In that case I would say , okay , very likely a banana and a fruit sorry , and a yogurt powder , a yogurt thing , would be enough to , let's say , recover from that one hour and then you can go on and make sure that in your next meal you just still maintain that balance . If it was a three hour run , very different story .

We want to make sure that straight away you are already having that meal or something bigger . If it was a race , it does get complicated because I'm sure that for most people you finish the race and the last thing you want even though before the race you think , is avoid . The first thing you're going to want is food .

But for a lot of people the appetite , like the desire to eat , is not there . So my suggestion is all right , we finish the race , if possible getting some liquid calories . So , for example , chocolate , milk is something that works well . Some brands also sell recovery powders .

Let's say that do have carbohydrate and protein okay , yeah but literally seriously , chocolate milk is like literally the same thing and probably tastier . But if you want to invest on something like that , that's an option .

And because let's say it's that appetite , that desire to eat is suppressed , like , just take it easy , don't , don't rush it , just be having a small sip . Very likely , in a few hours , your appetite will come back and your desire to eat will be there .

Please make sure that you do eat in that case , and in terms of what to eat , if you were struggling with that desire to eat , my suggestion is whatever you feel like I think for a lot of people actually someone was sharing yesterday they ended up having toasted sandwiches or toast .

For some reason , toast is something that feels appealing at that stage and just please go ahead and do it . If it's pizza , if it's pasta , whatever it is , go for it . Like there is no point on me saying , oh , the optimal food is going to be this one if you don't feel like having it anyway . So that is the idea .

And then , if , if , in the case of an ultra , the recovery and being deliberate about your food choices , I would suggest minimum 40 48 hours where you are being proactive about carbohydrate and protein being present on your meals , ideally at least a whole week , where you're being very deliberate about making sure that what you are eating is nourishing and it doesn't

mean because I know that that's something that a lot of people look forward to in terms of being more flexible with their food intake . By all means , please go ahead and definitely eat those things that you've been craving and looking forward to it , but make sure that , alongside that , you are still including the protein .

You're still including a variety of fruits and vegetables as well , to keep supplying your body with those nutrients .

And I'm not sure why , but but it just like there is a time in just about every race I've ever done where you think I just I can't face eating anything at the moment and all the best laid plans go , go out the window . So I don't know like why , why is that ? Do you know why appetite goes ?

So that's why I often advise against waiting to be hungry to eat during a run .

A lot of people think that because they are not hungry , they are okay , just not eating , when in reality it's just that , let's say , the exercise is putting the body way down in terms of your hunger levels and then afterwards it's very similar because it actually extends for some time that suppression .

That's one and the other one is literally similar to , for example , you just went for a very long run to relax while working . The last thing you want to do is keep running . It's very similar for your gut . It was working really hard all the way . The last thing it is right now is to keep working . So essentially that's very likely , both being at interplay .

So that's why I would say after training because usually it's more the appetite case , not necessarily that the gut is in that strike of not wanting to eat I would suggest it's still helpful , even in the article is still really helpful to prioritize that refueling after the race , where it's very likely that even if , let's say , force it down , it will come back

up because it's it's now the stomach is actually struggling to work . Then in that case just give it some time , take it very gentle and , as soon as you are able to , please go ahead and do it .

I think , um , yeah , now , one of the things I think , gabby , that you guys do really well is the whole nutritional plans and and figuring out individual needs and and preferences . How how can we , as runners , kind of take that same approach ?

How do we figure out what it is we're going to need , you know , and kind of tailor our own nutritional plan , if you will , or should we be working with somebody like you guys ?

so many different approaches and so many different things telling you that oh you know , actually you have to go keto , or it's the 120 grams of carbohydrate per hour , or actually it's real food . This is how you need to do it .

So for the person at the other end , it becomes extremely overwhelming and , instead of starting to make positive changes , sometimes they take a mix of everything that now is making things way worse , or they just keep doing the same thing they've been doing , because it's very difficult to see with clarity what to do .

So I do understand that , of course , that requires an investment . In my case , I'm making an effort to have offers available in terms of making it easier for people to have access to that , without necessarily being such a large investment , but still there . Now , if I were to give simpler tips , let's say in terms of OK , right now I'm not ready for that .

But how can I get started ? One option is look at what you're doing right now and from there , assess if that's good . So let's say , well , right now I'm doing nothing , like literally I'm not eating . Okay , my advice would be like definitely you need to eat . So how can we incorporate something ?

And starting with something is like okay , for example , if you are , I don't want to invest in energy juice . All right , let's just start with a banana or a baby food pouch or something that you can incorporate during your run , especially if that confidence or like ability to eat is not there . Even if it's a ridiculous amount , it's better than nothing .

So , because you are starting to do that training for the whole body and the whole experience to be comfortable eating let's say you are at a different stage where , yes , you are eating , but you feel like you are all over the place . All right , sit down and see how much you are doing at the moment .

So , even if you are not being a structure about how you are going at your nutrition , there is going to be something going on .

So when you analyze your last races of all , I don't remember that often I was just relying on the aid station and I know that by the time I go to the last one , it was very difficult to eat because I didn't feel like anything , or probably I was so . Based on that , it's like , okay , how can I make this different ?

Maybe , as gaby suggested , like this four string , I should look at that and have , like , at least some energy intake from there , or that idea of a sandwich every hour doesn't sound too bad , so let's try that .

So this is a role that is possible , but of like it does take some trial and error in terms of going and exploring and understanding how your body responds to this . Yeah , like that's probably because it's very complicated for me to say like , oh , this is the way to go . I wish it was like that .

Like , seriously , if I could have a template and say like , 100 miler , here you go , just follow this and you're going to be successful , I will be definitely sharing that . But because everybody is so different and running at different paces and there are so many different things that we need to consider , it's difficult to

do so . But definitely , starting with that structure and understanding how your body responds and knowing that the solution is not eating is important . It's like okay , I know I need to start consuming something . How can I start taking the steps towards that ?

I mean , I think if you approach it from a really holistic point of view which is where I ended up I didn't start out trying to do that , but it's's you know that the nutrition and what you eat is just as relevant in regular life as it is for training and and anything else .

Right , so that you know what you put in , you get out kind of thing , and and you sort of start at least for me , start by avoiding all the , all the sodas and all that stuff and put everything , all of that away and cut out the fast food and then kind of hone in on the stuff that you want during the race , and then , and then it sort of works its

way backwards from the race to the rest of life to say , okay , well , these are the things that work in the race , so I'm going to keep eating those things because they seem to be better for me outside of that as well .

And then I've sort of almost graduated to like a plant-based strategy at the moment , not by choice , but just because those are the things I found work better and I like to eat better as part of training , and I trained so long that it just became a regular habit and I feel much better about myself for that .

So it's uh , I think the whole nutrition thing is really , really interesting in that . Yeah , it can start with your race and your training , but I I feel like there's definitely scope to look at the rest of your life and impact your life in a positive way just by expanding that viewpoint , taking it out wider , very cool .

Yeah , but as part of what we do is actually looking at every area of your nutrition , because every area of your nutrition is going to impact that race result . I didn't notice that by working , that this area of how I was having my breakfast or how I was having my lunch needed attention , and how much better I feel just by working on that .

Even though it has nothing to do with their raw nutrition , it actually has made things better for me . I'm sleeping better , I'm recovering better . That crankiness I was feeling at the end of the day it actually I didn't know it was my lunch that I needed to address .

So , yeah , it definitely makes a big , big difference , and one thing that I often strive to use is to encourage people to see what is missing instead of what I need to cut out .

So it's in looking at , okay , how can I make this better , instead of being , oh , I need to get rid of this , and I need to get rid of that Because sometimes what it does is that we stop fueling , even though let's say , if it was a donut at the end of the lunch , well , that's still some carbohydrate that your body was probably happily having and instead

of saying , okay , maybe I don't want the donut anymore , but how can I replenish this energy with something more nutritious ? That is a way I would suggest looking at as well .

When you're out there doing all the running and expending all the energy , you need to put food in to keep going .

So you know , running to lose weight or at least training to do ultra running to lose and having lose weight be one of your goals , I don't think is a really great thing to be doing , because you need to be putting the food in and then you get back into okay , well , what foods are going to work and back into there .

But yeah , I hear that more often than I probably should Like hey , I'm not losing weight , or I need to lose weight , so I'm not going to eat , or I'm going to eat very light , but still try to run 50 , 60 , 70 miles a week or whatever it is .

Yeah , definitely , and I think a big part of that and that's something that it's pretty well who follows me on social media you'll see that that's a really strong message I always share , because to me is really I can see the frustration of why , if I'm training so much and I'm trying to look after my diet , I'm still gaining weight .

And the worst thing is that I'm injured the whole time , I'm not performing well , I'm like I'm not sure if I'm even falling out of love of this sport . And a big part of that is , of course , how we , like society is pushing that message of oh , exercise is to lose weight .

And sometimes and including myself , for example , I got into the sport because of that .

Like , I had that motivation behind my physical activities , like well , I know that I would like to lose weight , but then what a lot of us find out , I think , is that once you are there , it's like hang on , like that's the last thing I need to worry about , like this is beautiful , like look at all the places I'm going , like I'm going , how my body feels

, amazing when I'm moving . I'm meeting wonderful people . I love the whole experience of running , and that's why I push that message strongly .

It's actually like weight loss is the last thing that you need to be looking at , because physical activity is so good for your body in so many different ways that by focusing so much on losing weight , you are doing a disservice to your body in terms of enhancing that experience by restricting those nutrients and the energy .

It's making it really hard for your body to continue to allow you to enjoy this as much as possible and continue to get better at it as well . I do encourage people to to look at what is beyond that weight loss . Well , I want to feel better in myself . Okay , do we believe that ? Actually , lucy way will change that ?

yeah no , because I actually know that I've been there and I still didn't feel better . So okay , let's look at how can you feel better yourself , or like I want to feel better in my clothes . Well , what is stopping you from finding clothes that are comfortable right now ? And I want to feel better in my clothes ?

Well , what is stopping you from finding clothes that are comfortable right now ? And I want to be better at the sport , which is probably the main reason people often share . Well , being better at the sport is being consistent at training , is fueling your body adequately , is sleeping well , is having a training program that you're able to follow .

That is going to be important for you to be better at the sport , not dropping a few pounds on the scale .

So I have to ask how did that come about and how did you figure out what was needed in his plan ? And really how excited were you when he went I think it was 102 yards , 425 miles last year . Knowing that you guys , you had a part to play in that journey . That's phenomenal . Tell us about that .

By the way , like when I saw him there , I was like , oh my God , he's here Because he was already a very famous runner , especially in the community here . And at the end of the presentation he got in touch saying like , hey , I would love to get some support for my nutrition . And that's when we started to work together .

So back then , his bacteria ultra personal best was 51 laps and when we started to work together , the very first concern for him was he's got issues that were stopping him from having a successful experience while training . So that was the first thing that we addressed .

Once we got that out of the way , let's say we started to focus about the strategy for each of his factor ultras . Anyone who knows Fjordgård will know that he's really structured and deliberate about how he manages his factor ultras . So when we started to work on that , he already had a plan that he was following .

His plan was essentially , every three hours , eating a main meal , not necessarily saying which meal , but just saying meal and then he would decide there and then from there snacking here and there . But at least he had an idea of the freedom he wanted to follow .

So once we look into that , the first thing that I realized is that , even though he had that , his fuel intake was really , really low . So the first thing that we needed to work is like , how can we make sure that you are eating more calories and carbohydrates during these races ?

So we started to incorporate more food options and a little bit more variety and being more deliberate about what he was consuming . By the way , I have I feel like I'm being very specific about this because I literally just did a presentation detailing all this . So anyway , that was essentially we .

We work on four , four different backyards , like three different backyards , before we got to the fourth one , which was the world record performance . So that's just to show how it does require the time and that ability to okay , because we work on the first land . He went and executed and from his PB , from 51 went to 54 .

And then from there he had the satellite champs . So from there he made more adjustments . In this case , the adjustments were about the types of food . He was having to make sure that it was more energy dense and more variety At the satellite champs . He ran for 76 hours , so pretty much adding a whole day . Yes , a whole extra day to his performance .

Then from there it was like was like actually , we noticed those electrolytes , electrolyte imbalances that needed to be corrected . So there was a local backyard ultra where he ran 57 hours . He still won , uh , but we were able to correct that and we noticed that pretty much from that experience .

He reported how the plan was pretty much spot on , like everything felt perfect , even to the point that he finished that 57 lap and he was happy to keep going for much longer . It was , of course , in a bacterial trial you go as far as the assist can go . So that was the end of the race and from there the next event was that world record performance .

So by then we had built a plan that we were very well aware that the energy was spot on , the electrolytes were spot on and the last thing that we needed to add was , for example , the caffeine intake and how he was going to manage his alertness and sleep as well .

So by the time we got to that , 102 hours running and of course I'm very happy with that experience is still finishing really strong and with full aware , alertness and and energy . So it was , it's been a journey .

We continue to work together , because he still has races that he's preparing for and we we continue to work on those , uh , but it's to show how it is important to be patient , even though , like yes , of course , he's a really talented athlete and for a lot of the people I work with , they start with , let's say , moving from 10 hours to 15 hours to aiming

for 24 . In his case , his very first backyard , he ran 39 hours . So the talent is there . However , still being deliberate about the nutrition and making sure that we are working on that in a way that we continue to identify the areas of opportunity , that's what allows us to have a really solid strategy finish at 102 for the world record .

So congratulations to you guys and to phil and and yourself for having having a huge role to play in that world record , which I think has since been surpassed incredibly . So I'm hoping phil has got his eyes set on an play in that world record , which I think has since been surpassed incredibly .

So I'm hoping Phil has got his eyes set on a new world record or going back at it , Because you know those types at the top end . They're always like OK , if you can do it , I can beat it . So I'm sure he's got that back in his sights for one of these days .

Ultra is really interesting racing style very , very different but yeah , it produces some incredible results , like Phil Fantastic , now Gabby each episode .

One of the things we do is try to encourage guests to choose a song to add to the free Choose to Enjoy Spotify playlist that's out there Something family friendly to lift you up , maybe motivate you or just keep your butt moving while you're out on the trail . Now you chose a great song .

Do you want to tell the folks out there which song you picked , or do you want me to do ?

I joke at some stage that it was that was me at a buffet bar , but no , I also like to apply that to life , of course , in terms of , yeah , like when it says birds don't just fly , they just like uh flying and they don't keep up .

So I , I love that especially when we think of ultras is actually till I reach the end , and then , once I'm there , there's going to be a new challenge ahead of me and I'm going to embrace it as well . So , yeah , it's , I hope , and it's very cheerful song , so I hope everybody enjoys it it is , and that is definitely one of my favorite movies .

It's really , really good and , like you said , it's got some very , very relevant lyrics in there about when you fall down , you have to get up again and keep going . That's how you learn and keep pushing forward and don't give up and try all the things and try all the race stars . So I think it's a brilliant choice , good job and just a wonderful movie .

So , yeah , so we'll get that song added to the playlist so that folks out there can enjoy it as much as you do and I do , for that matter . Thank you so much , gabby , for sharing your insights on optimizing nutrition for ultra runners .

I think your expertise has shed light on how we can make food work for us , not against us , in our ultra journeys and for listeners out there , remember that fueling with purpose building a strong , happy body is within reach for all of us . Hopefully , you found some tips , maybe an aha moment , in the information Gabby has been generously sharing with us .

Or perhaps you just want to learn more and start your own nutritional journey as a complement to all the other training you're doing for a big race ? If so , you can find more information about Gabby and her methodologies at intenseeatfitcom , which I will put in the show notes , and you can also follow her on Instagram , as she mentioned , much like I do .

I will , of course , provide the links to all of those in the show notes , and you can also follow her on Instagram , as she mentioned , much like I do . I will , of course , provide the links to all of those in the show notes . If you want to go check them out , learn more , please do .

I think Gabby also has a free fueling mindset quiz that you can go take out there as well to get you started , which I'll also put the link to . While you're out there on the internet searching for those , don't forget to subscribe to the show here , get notified each time a new episode comes out and , of course , follow , like and share .

It would be much appreciated . Doing any of those things helps promote the show , gets the word out and increases the chances of other runners finding the information that awesome guests like Gabby have given up their time to come and share with us .

You can find us on Instagram , facebook and over at choosetoeenjoycom , so be sure to head over to any of those spots , check us out , say hello , drop us a message , suggest a topic if you have a moment . I really love getting all of those interactions from the community out there .

Until then , take the quiz , go see what Gabby has to offer so that you can run long , run strong and keep choosing to endure . We'll see you next time .