¶ Intro / Opening
Well , hello and welcome . If this is your first time with us , thank you for stopping by . You are listening to Choose to Endure the show dedicated to the non-elite runners out there , where we share stories , interviews , gear and training tips specific to the tail-end heroes of the Ultra universe . My name's Richard Gleave . I've been running ultras now since 2017 .
I have taken on and finished numerous ultra distances , all the way up through 220 miles , and I am unashamedly a member of the back of the pack , just like many of you out there . Well , today I am super excited to introduce a guest who brings just a vast wealth of experience and insight to
¶ Meet Glenn McCrill, Roadrunner Coach
the show Mr Glenn McCrill . He is a dedicated runner and director of coaching for the San Antonio Roadrunners , with a strong background in marathons and road racing . But he's also spent countless hours as part of the marvelous McCrill team supporting , pacing and crewing his wife , agatha , through her many ultra-running adventures . But this time the roles were reversed .
Glenn recently tackled his very first 100 miler at the Grasslands 100 , and today we're going to hear all about his journey from training to preparation to overcoming challenges on race day . So , whether you're a roadrunner thinking about venturing into ultras or you just love a good endurance story . You won't want to miss this conversation . Let's jump in .
Discover raw , inspiring stories from runners who've been right where you are . This is the choose to endure ultra running podcast with your host . He's english , not australian . He's English , not Australian Richard Gleave . Well , glenn , welcome to the podcast . Really excited to have you here .
Can you start by telling us a little bit about your background in running and maybe how you got started ?
Yes , certainly , I think , like most individuals , if you look far into my past and and when I , when I started running , I started as a soccer player here in here in the United States , and I chose to be goalie , so I didn't have to run .
Um , that that was that was my whole goal was if you're a goalkeeper , you had to run like probably about a mile during the , during the warmups and cooldowns , and that was it , and I tried to avoid it . I joined the Army , went to West Point and still did enjoy running , but I found out that I was pretty good at it .
So in my first class at West Point , my first run that I had to do , my first graded event , they broke the entire class of 1991 at West Point into three groups the black , the gray and the gold group . The black group was the fastest , the gray group was the middle and the gold group was slower runners for that class
¶ From Avoiding Running to Embracing It
during your first summer . Well , my name was the bottom name in the black group , so that meant I was the slowest of the fast and I struggled the entire summer . The portions of the day that we had to run were the parts that I dreaded most .
But it gave me a background , though , in running and if I found out that it was a place that I could detach and clear my mind and I began to enjoy it enough that I'm like , okay , I'm gonna go out on my own and and run while I was a kid at west point . Fast forward a little bit .
In the army there's a requirement to run , so you have to run two miles , which isn't very far , but it's two miles and it's a graded event as part of the of the Army Physical Fitness Test . So I made sure I was good for that and I started to increase my distances a little bit .
My first half marathon was not trained , not allowed on their strollers , were not allowed on the run , and I got many , many pats on the back as I pushed my baby and we finished the half marathon . Following that , I attempted my first marathon in Kansas City . When the Army moved me there , my family had stayed here in San Antonio .
I needed something to fill my time with , and so I decided to train for a marathon on my own . I did complete it . It in my mind it was a complete and utter train wreck , but , but it was one of those .
It was the first , first time I think I really experienced in running the , the joy of , of completing something not as planned , but completing it under in my mind , under God's strength , not underneath my own strength anymore . There's a bigger power inside me . There's a greater power than I know that I have and my brain will tell me that I can't do it .
And Glenn , what is a train wreck for you ? Just to give us some perspective here for our audience .
So a train wreck for me and I will bring up the last marathon I ran . We can use the words a train wreck or the wheels came off the bus is another way to say it yes , love those .
So about a month ago , the Alamo marathon here in San Antonio , I was going to use it as a training run for my 100 miler and , as I did , I thought Agatha and I agreed that we would just , we would run it and enjoy it , we'd take pictures . This is a run to go out and enjoy my style of running , right ?
there .
It is , and we were both pretty excited that we were not going to rush this race , we were just going to enjoy it . And about mile 18 , I started not to feel so well . Oh , and I share this with agatha and she's shared share some of her wisdom if she said other friends who've gotten sick or who have purposely blown up and that made them feel better .
so I decided to try that yeah and I tried it and it didn't make me feel better , and a little bit later I got sick again , and then I got sick a lot , then I got sick a whole lot .
Oh , my goodness .
And then Agatha talked me into getting out of the uncovered part of the riverwalk , out of the sun , and get to an aid station where my blood pressure was very low . But the medics checked on me and said you're just dehydrated . Okay , and why ? I bring that up ? And I want to bring that up to runners .
I learned in that marathon that I planned just to complete it was my slowest marathon ever by far . I completed it and I felt horrendous and I knew that two weeks later I had 100 miler to complete and in my mind I was terrified oh , I bet .
So when the wheels come off the bus for me , I lean back into for me , into my faith , and I say , okay , this isn't under my strength anymore . God give me the strength and I rely on that and that's just that's where I come from .
Fantastic . Well , first of all , well done for finishing the actual race . I mean , just from what you're describing , I'm like there's no way you're finishing that Well done and obviously you're running around .
You mentioned San Antonio there and as part of the intro we talked about you being the director of coaching , if I'm not mistaken , at the San Antonio Roadrunners . So tell us about . I think that's a really big club . There are a lot of running clubs around , but I think that's quite a big one .
So what is the San Antonio Roadrunners all about and kind of what is your role and I think , they have an off-road or a trail group as well , if I'm not mistaken .
You're exactly right , richard . So the San Antonio Roadrunners is . We have several running groups here within San Antonio , both on road and off road , and the San Antonio Roadrunners we do have the largest group of runners . There's approximately 1,600 runners that are signed up as part of the San Antonio Roadrunners and it's all different ages . For coaching .
I'm there to make sure the coaches are properly prepared . All of our coaches are CPR trained , first aid trained . So if something does happen during any of our training events or our races , our coaches can step in immediately to render first aid to those runners needing it .
It doesn't happen often , but I've been out there before where we one of our runners actually he had a heart attack and we were prepared as our coaches
¶ Transitioning from Road to Trail Running
were moving towards him because another runner called fortunately some other runners out there on the path that day were nurses and started giving him CPR and by the time we got there as coaches to relieve them , the EMS had showed up and the runner's fine and he's actually rejoined us again .
But the point being is , director of coaching , we're there to make sure the coaches try to continue their education within running . We're all Roadrunner Clubs of America certified , but that's a one-time class . How do we continue to grow in our education ? Some coaches do it on their own and other coaches need some assistance .
So that's my job as director of coaches is to help those coaches see those opportunities . As an example , I also coach the kids group , which I love to death . The seven to 12 year olds are phenomenal and their spirit is not to give up . Of course they're kids , so they have grumpy days , but the kids are wonderful as well .
So we have all age groups in San Antonio , roadrunners and , like you said , the off-road runners , another phenomenal group of people .
At one point I was only a roadrunner when I moved to San Antonio and I focused on just on the road , because who would want to walk , go somewhere where there's roots and rocks and trip , and one season I decided to try it and sure , as we've all experienced on off-road running , it's in that nice smooth area with a pebble that's probably about the size of my
thumb and you catch your toe on that and go down . That's the one that's going to get you .
Yeah , always you can , definitely you can avoid all the big rocks , all the roots . You feel like you've done an awesome job and then you get that one tiny little one , and that's the one that sends you down .
But I liked trail running . I still went back to road running .
Yeah .
And then and then I met Agatha and you . You've met Agatha as well . She's a force unto herself and she convinced me , along with the phenomenal food that you get when you're , when you're ultra running and running off road instead of a goo packet and you know this instead of a goo packet and maybe a green banana , you get meals as a roadrunner .
You can't fathom what you mean . You get to eat real food . Well , will you run ? No , will you stop and have some real food ? Or , like yourself , you have a beer during a race . That's phenomenal .
That's beautiful . Have you been back to the roadrunner side , like do you cross over the roadrunner trailrunner side ? Have you been back there and talked to them about this kind of stuff , and what is the reaction if so ?
Yeah , originally I didn't think I would . I thought I'll come over here for a little . I'll come over here for a season to the trailrunning side and crewing crewing some races and pacing some races .
And the fact that at Moab , pacing Agatha that that point where where she was taking a rest and you and Vicki and some other , some of our friends , were crewing her and I got pirogies as as a pacer , that I'm Polish , so when you get your soul food as a pacer , it locked me in and saying this is your people , these people , you liked them already , so that
really helped me swing . When I go back to road , yeah , I'll run road . There's a couple of marathons I want to run , but nothing .
I don't like 5Ks because they're hard , hard , they're hard you gotta go fast all the time yeah , and I and you have to feel bad the entire race yes it's terrible and I want to win it , so that's just how it is I love that you have that competitive spirit , certainly for ag .
she definitely got that competitive spirit and you've had plenty of experience supporting her at her ultras . You've seen her go through those highs and those lows during really a variety of events . Having seen that , glenn , what then made you decide ? You know what I'm going to take on my own 100 miler .
Well , the 100 miler was an opportunity for me to test myself . I knew I could run . I mean , I've only done a couple 50Ks . I've only done two 50Ks , one 50 miler , one 100K . It was a jackalope jam that I had 24 hours to do . So I pushed myself , but not not not over the top push myself , but it was . Was it hard ? It was certainly , it was difficult .
It's a hundred K , yeah . And I decided I needed to push myself a little bit further and take a step out in faith and say let's , let's do this . Agatha had already signed up for it and I asked her . I said do you , do you need me to crew you or can I join you ? And she got pretty excited .
She was like well , definitely , let's , let's , let's give this a shot and let's , let's , let's see if we both can finish the hundred hundred miler . And and we went out there together and it was it , was it definitely . I was terrified when I started that . That that that's an understatement because it was scary utter muscles a long way .
I bet now you guys went up to the grasslands 100 for your attempt . Well , for your first attempt , can you kind of give folks out there listening who might not have heard of that race a little bit of the background of the race , like where is it ? What's the kind of terrain that you're running in up there ? Is it a big race , small race ?
What is the Grasslands 100 ?
So the Grasslands 100 , it's a group of racing , there's a 100 , there's a 50 miler , and the 100 and the 50 miler are both released at the same time . There's a marathon , there's a 15K I believe I got them all . However , it's on different , different loops and it's a . It's a texas state park that is northwest of fort worth and we .
We believe that it was going to be primarily flat . I mean it's . It doesn't seem like it's . There's a lot of hills up there , but we were
¶ The Grasslands 100 Race Experience
pretty wrong about that . It had some good elevation gain and drop and there were some of the routes out there . We were surprised when we ran them , just saying , well , there are flat portions of this and there's a portion . One of the routes had a herd of cows that the race director warned us about . So anyway , grasslands 100 , you have to run .
There's four different loops , from a nine mile to a 15 mile are the different lengths , and there's aid stations every six miles . I think is the largest gap . You're running without an aid station for water or fuel , which is nice , and some one of the aid stations was just water , but it , it , they , they . The trails were phenomenally marked .
I have nothing but kudos to give the race director on the trails being marked . During the day I had no doubt which way I was going . At night , as I ate , as I fueled during the route and stuff like that . A couple , one or two times times , as I'm sure you've done , I looked around . I saw no more markers .
I backtracked yeah , a quarter mile , and I said look , there's some reflectors there , and the sign I should have kicked that said not this way . Ah that's a dead giveaway yeah , um , I saw that as well brilliant , so it sounds like a really cool race .
Was it kind of rooty up there , would you say , or were the trails pretty , pretty smooth or even technical rocky ? What was the trail situation like , or did it vary based on the the loop you were doing ?
it did vary on the loop , um , it wasn't very technical . Um , there's , there were some parts that were single track . There were some parts that were were were loose sand , like okay sand , which which we were both quite surprised .
It was maybe only like a quarter half mile of one of the loops , but a quarter half mile that I didn't want to deal with and I was looking for any edge of the path that might offer me some more traction .
Fortunately , we both wore gaiters , which I almost didn't wear , and after the fact I said boy , I'm sure I'm glad that I listened to your recommendation , agatha , from a while ago and wear gaiters to all the races , just in case , just in case they're minimal weight and just so useful for a bunch of things .
Exactly , and it was all different , like I said , from cow pastures that you ran through and you could see the cows had been there before and during the night . For sure , cows do blend into the when they're eating quietly and you're running through the middle of the herd they can startle you quite a bit when they're right on the trail .
Yeah , I got kind of floored as the cow was probably about 10 feet in front of me when it finally moved Brilliant 10 feet in front of me when it finally moved Brilliant .
So I mean , we talked about your experience , shall we say , at the Alamo Marathon there . But outside of that , how was your training ? How did you go about preparing for this 100-miler ? That , I have to think is pretty daunting when you're looking at it based on your history .
You're right about that . It was daunting and , in the grand scheme of things , would I have trained differently ? I would have trained a lot better than I could train , and where I'm going with that is work got in the way . Things happened with the presidential election .
Following that , I worked a lot of hours at at work , so a lot of those times I wanted to do training runs . I wasn't able to , so I I really was . My longest run had been that marathon yeah trained for the 100 miler , um short of .
I did a 50 miler , probably about eight months ago , but that's a long way back and my marathon training had always taught me you , you need to continue to build up to this distance . And that that's what in my mind was playing .
But at the same time I I played in my mind what I , what I teach my kids and the kids running group , is your biggest competition out there isn't the other runner and it's not your legs and it's not your arms , as long as you don't get injured . Your biggest competition is your mind . Your mind's going to want to tell you to quit .
It's going to want to have you stay at that aid station just a little bit longer . It's going to it's going to want to stop you . And I share that with the kids and they get it . And I , really , I I dwelt on that as I was out there doing the hundred miler of I , I , I don't think I'm prepared for this . I just I can't .
I can't allow myself to quit . And fortunately I had a phenomenal pacer for for 55 miles of it . Agatha ran the first 55 miles of it and and until her stomach didn't feel well with me and we were we .
We went back and forth and we used a lot of the experiences of crewing other runners , of getting out of the aid stations quickly Not not not sitting down if we could help it and our longest break we took an hour to change clothes as it got dark and to grab dinner real quick and that was our longest break .
And every time we quickly pushed through the aid stations and I think that helped us out a whole lot . We really created a nice cushion on the front side . So the training wasn't what I would recommend to any runner if I was coaching them .
Well , I think it's a good lesson , though I mean it doesn't always go training that is the way you want it to go , or think you need it to go , and yet , depending on what your goal is for the race , you can still finish these races . It is , as they say , 90% mental and 10% is in your mind . It really is very , very mental , this running .
So , yeah , depending on your goals , you can still make these big races on fairly minimal training . I mean , granted , more training usually is a better experience , but you can still do these things . And talking of experience yourself and Agatha , you guys have done and been through so many ultras together .
Did your experience having crewed and paced Agatha on ultras did that help ? You , do you think ?
trail runners and San Antonio road runners as well as other ultra runners as they're out there . Take that opportunity , when you get that , to cruise somebody else and to see them when they're in that place where they're struggling . When you're there , you understand it , helps you pull through that struggle . You see that they could do it .
You could reflect back on it . You watch those runners that you saw get back out there again quickly so their muscles didn't get cold and they didn't start to get that chill . There's so much you can learn from the other runners around you , as well as the runners that are doing the race with you .
You talk with them , you draw off their strength and it's wonderful . I mean it's wonderful to see how the whole group of people at Grasslands 100 , all the 100-mile runners , were out there encouraging each other to finish . So it's the support structures out there and it's not just the support structure you bring from home .
And that's another thing I love about the ultra community , the elites . I watch them reach back down to the back of the Packers . Something else I will say and this isn't just a plug for you , and I talked about this your podcast has a wealth of information , 100% that I bowed from .
¶ Navigating the Night Section Solo
I ran with Path Projects gear .
Oh , brilliant .
I tried it after you interviewed that group and I tried some of their stuff and it worked great for me and it's my go-to gear . I just I , I've , I'd heard of them but I wouldn't have tried them until I heard about that .
So your , your podcast and other podcasts draw me to the wisdom of others of hey , try this , and I'm willing to take anything from any runner .
Yeah , I love the way that everybody's out to help everybody else get to the finish or at least in our space I get that . There are a few elites that are out there winning races and that's really awesome too , don't get me wrong .
But for the majority of us I would say we're out here trying to overcome and just trying to get to our own finish , whatever that looks like . So I love that . I did a race last year and midway through the race I was with another chap and we were on our way out . It was an out and back race .
We were on our way out and the leader was coming back and the leader , seeing us on the other side of the road , literally stopped , crossed the road and came and stood and talked to us , asking how we were doing . And you know how was our day going on this race mid-race , and I was like dude , what are you doing ?
Like get back over there and like go to the finish . But he took it . He didn't have to . We didn't flag him over , he just decided by himself that he was going to come over . Aaron Iles , if you're listening , by any chance , aaron , just fantastic guy . Yeah he just came over and talked to us . Now , what other sport ?
First of all , are you running the same course at the same time , or participating at the same time as the elite folks ? Everybody's on that course altogether . And then where else would those folks kind of come and cheer you on and ask how you're doing as part of the run ? So I just I think you're right .
The community aspect of it for me is just amazing , and whether you're fast or slow or in between , it doesn't matter , everybody's out to help each other and I think that's terrific .
I couldn't agree more yeah .
Now for the race itself . Glenn , were there any really challenging moments for you , aside from dodging cows on the trail itself ? And was there ever a point where , having gotten into this , maybe after agatha had had sort of stopped around 55 miles or so , did you ever seriously doubt finishing um ?
I , I didn't . I don't know if I doubted finishing . No , was it a challenge once ? Once it was right as it's getting dark , and Agatha and I went out and she , at that point she turned around , two and a half miles out from the main aid station . She said we aren't going to make cutoff if I stay with you . And I looked at her and I shared with her .
I said , as your husband , if you need me to go back , you're far more important than a belt buckle . Let's , let's go back . And she says , no , I need you to , I need you to go on . She said I'll be fine , I'll get back there .
So she turned around and went back and I , I did the next 45 miles myself and it wasn't time to check in on a lot of stuff , Wasn't time to check in on a lot of stuff . And I didn't find anybody in the dark until probably I don't know maybe 4 am or so .
I finally linked up with some other runners that I knew and they left out in front of me and one of the gentlemen was speedwalking and the other other two runners I I recognized both of them . I'd seen them and the gentleman that was speedwalking , uh , we'd seen at a different race .
So I knew him amed and and and I thought okay , they know what's going on . This speedwalking is going to get us to the cutoff , to the next cutoff and about 3.4 miles out from the , from the , the turnaround or the , the , the finish line , where you check your , your time check . He looked at his watch . He says we're not going to make cutoff .
What are we doing ? Oh no , and the woman and the other man took off at like like a , probably a 10 , 30 or 11 minute pace , and I didn't have that left in me . Oh no , I ran 10 , 30 or 11 minute pace and I didn't have that left in me .
Oh no , I got as fast as I could , as a med did with trail runners , because so I gotta take a break here real quick . He didn't wait to step out into the tree line real quick yeah and I said , well , I gotta run . Well , we all made that cut off . How I don't .
Oh , I , I do know we ran like 11 minute miles and that was the only time in the 100 miles that I that I caught my toe on that little rock and I went out hard on my face and I still , I still have a blood blister on my thumb from it that hasn't gone away yet . I I wiped out completely . One of the other runners came back to check on me .
I got back up , like I said , we , we finished it and then then we made the cut off . And once we made the cut off for the last loop , it was nine miles and we had , like , uh , two hours and 45 minutes to do it . I'm like , well , we can walk it now , like we're , we're , we are within striking distance .
I said I'm not gonna walk it because I don't want to put myself in a bad position , but it , it , it was , it was quite nice , and so I , I guess , I , I guess I'd answer that I was concerned when he looked at his watch because I was thinking the whole time maybe my math is just off yeah and then we we took off at a much faster pace than the ,
probably the 17 minute mile that we were walking in his speed walk . We talked off , like I said , 11 minute , 11 minute mile for . So we cut 18 minutes off to make sure we made that cut off and we had about five minutes in our pocket to spare . Yeah , it was a little to go that far .
I was not to go 91 miles and miss cut off would not have been a happy day .
Ah , that would have really stuck with me for a long time , I think , if that had happened . So I totally feel you you going for that one , absolutely yeah . Now . So , having worked your way through , well , let me ask this first , which parts of the race did you struggle most with ?
Because usually it's like mile 30 and then maybe mile 70 or so , and then you went through the night , I think for the well , maybe not for the first time , but certainly for the first time , by yourself , potentially .
Yeah , so we'd done the whole route during the day . But , like you said , so it's the first time by myself and the route that I'd like during the day , I really didn't like at night because I guess there were hills during the day and I was fresh , so at night I did not like those hills .
At night there's lots of uphills followed by pretty good downhills following the uphills and probably like quarter-mile downhill runs , and at night those aren't fun either . They're scary . At night , I mean , all I could keep thinking is I'm going to fall .
I'm out here by myself and , yeah , I'll get back up and run again , but I really don't want to fall and go down hard . It didn't happen .
I got lost , I mean a little bit , and one time I found myself there were little little breaks off the off the main trail and they were probably only like 10 or 12 feet in and it looked like and I called them donkey brakes like like the air brakes , things that the trucks go up . I called them donkey brakes because they were so small .
You could felt like two donkeys in it . And uh , agatha , and I joked about that and I found myself like I kind of shook my my head for a second . I'm like where am I at ? And I I mean I wasn't 10 feet off the trail . I have no earthly memory how I got in there at that time .
It was probably three or four in the morning by myself and yeah it was a challenge , but , yeah , there were times at night when I questioned my sanity and what I was doing . And at no time did I see any gorillas off the path . But we joked about that . No shipwrecked either .
Yeah , absolutely those hallucinations , man , they're , they're all . All the rage these days , I guess .
So I hear um , but I , I did , yeah , it got . It got a little bit questionable right before sunrise but but uh , fortunately , agatha , when , when she did stop , it was pretty chilly out and she wrapped up we didn't bring sleeping bags
¶ Racing Against the Cutoffs
¶ Navigating the Night Section Solo
because
¶ Racing Against the Cutoffs
¶ Navigating the Night Section Solo
we
¶ Racing Against the Cutoffs
¶ Navigating the Night Section Solo
didn't
¶ Racing Against the Cutoffs
¶ Navigating the Night Section Solo
plan
¶ Racing Against the Cutoffs
on stopping Right , she's wrapped up in a blanket out of the truck and just taco'd herself up and when I'd come in she goes . You got to hear out of the inside of the big burrito , is that you and she'd sit up ?
what do you need ? And she'd say , okay , you're not going to stay here long . And she'd set up what he need and she , okay , you're not going to stay here long .
She'd push me back out again , which is beautiful . So , having done your first hundred miler , like what ? What surprised you most about it ? Would you say um , what surprised me most ? The ability , when you have to in nature , to to use nature to go relieve yourself . I did .
I , fortunately , from crewing Agatha a while back , I had some emergency stuff for a trash bag and some wet wipes . I just happened to have them in my pack and that worked wonderfully . I wasn't anywhere near a portalette and I wasn't going to go another 10 feet , but that's just . I didn't .
I didn't know I had that in me , but I , yeah , at that point the race was going to , the race was going to happen . I needed , I needed to take another step and take one more step in my , my , my new learning and challenges . And it worked . And agatha chuckles she goes . Well , everybody else probably did that too .
You still know that yes , it's , uh , I think it's a rite of passage . It's easier at night when the you know , when you can turn your headlight off and nobody can see you back there in the , in the bush or in in the trees yes , but exactly , but yes , it's definitely . I would say probably everybody's done some variety of that .
You talked about Agatha a little bit and her helping you out . How did it feel then to have the roles reversed this time ? How was Agatha crewing you ? What was that experience like ?
Truthfully , I've had full confidence in her because she had gone through the races , even if she hadn't known what she was doing . I finally understood the concept of she offered me some , some items of food when I came in and I finally understood where she was at in the past , where I didn't want to make the choices .
I wanted her to push something , and she picked up on that pretty quick and said just just take this , and you're going to take it with you because you've been eating this and it's been staying down and you are having trouble eating this .
Nice Okay .
And so she , she queued off on that pretty quick , which was nice to have a crew that understood where I was at at that moment .
yeah , minimize the the decisions that you have to make exactly .
And I , I think , I think you , you were with me when we solved that out at moab , when the one gentleman didn't want to . They had choices for medals and he didn't want to pick his medal because that was another choice at that point that he was passed .
Yeah , that just give me something and make me not think it was nice to finally join the rest of you , getting a little bit closer to folks like you that I aspire to be one day .
Old and slow Glenn .
Is that what we're saying ? As a young man , I thought I needed to come in first . As I age and get wisdom , I realize that I need to finish and there's nothing with the real race that I see out there for myself is finding another runner that needs that pusher to talk or to vent or just to complain , and that's okay .
Hey , I hurt , or this is going on in my life , as we all experience on the longer runs . Okay , let's get through this together . We're going to make it back to the next aid station and we're going to push on , and that's a really beautiful thing that the longer the ultra runs allow us to do .
Absolutely , and did you have , aside from the leftover TP situation , were there any particular gear choices or nutritional choices other nutritional choices that you made that worked well for you on this race ?
Yeah , definitely . I will say the gear choices . I mean , I just have an eighth invest and I would probably . It worked for me because I knew where everything was at which was nice For the Path Project stuff . I had a jacket with pockets and I love the Path Project shorts that have pockets . Oh yeah , those are great .
Yeah , I can put stuff in my pockets and I don't have to think about where I'm going to grab that snack . Yeah , bobo bars , peanut butter and jelly phenomenal .
Do you know I have recently come across these Bobo bars . It happened at Swami Shuffle . One of the ladies I was running with , elizabeth hey , elizabeth , she had , well , her crew , her husband , crewing had these Bobo bars . They had the strawberry ones and then the peanut butter and grape , I think it was .
But I had never seen these before , and so they were like , yeah , try one . So I'm hooked on those things . I'm right there with you on the Bobo bandwagon . If that's a thing I don't know , I'm going to buy a whole box of them and take them on the next one . They were great .
The Bacryls have a box currently in our pantry . I also learned the , the value that that I've been told so many times by other runners . Uh , the , the , the picking the salt , salt tablets in in a pattern or routine so you don't get behind
¶ Lessons Learned and Future Ultra Plans
. I don't think I don't . I can't recall any , any leg aches or any pains that I that I've had on shorter runs , a much shorter runs , for lack of salt . Worst things were were I let my nutrition get a little bit low and I got . I got heavy legs .
And as soon as I clicked that Bobo bar or a or a cup of ramen that was packed with carbs and it clicked me over the top I did learn that cold pizza is not my answer ever on a race . My mouth will , or my mouth and throat will not swallow cold pizza , no matter how bad I want the pizza .
Oh , and you're totally missing out , totally missing out on some cold pizza . It's like the best thing , but I get it . I get it . It's hard to swallow . I don't know . Nobody ever told me that before doing ultras , but it's really difficult to swallow food .
At some point your throat doesn't want to do it , which I was not at all ready for when it happened to me . Now I know that was a weird one finding that out for sure .
Do you think there was anything that you would have done differently in your prep or race strategy if you were going to do this again , or for another race , or for this race specifically again ? For anybody else considering doing this race , what kind of advice might you give them ?
My advice that I'd give them , if somebody were attempting their first 100 miler , the fact that I had somebody , agatha , who I could look to as an experienced runner . If you can have somebody that's out there with you crewing or pacing you , that knows you , that knows your strengths and weaknesses and , fortunately for Agatha and I , we compliment each other .
So when I have strength it's usually about the time she's fading . so for us running , as as for the first 55 miles as a couple , it worked perfectly yeah you know it's scary when , all of a sudden , the the trapeze artist's net goes away and you're only going to see the net every every six or 50 .
Well , I guess 9 or 15 miles or or somewhere in between , or 12 . It I guess real scary . But uh , it's , there's . There's a lot that can be learned from the other runners , though . I mean I always I looked at some of the other setups they had . We had a mat with our chairs on it and we each had a box for food and that was perfect .
Yeah , I mean , fortunately it didn't rain . If it rained we would have been a lot more uncomfortable . Changing clothes before dark is huge . Having just a dry pair of clothes made me feel like I just started the race again .
Yes , great tip that one Definitely change before dark , actually before it gets dark Like while you can see what you're doing change clothes . Thank you , yes .
You're 100% and like , while you can see what you're doing , change clothes . Thank you , yes , 100 , and and that that's what we did and that that was .
We were going to wait another loop to do that , a shorter loop , and whether it was it was god , god's purpose or whatever , I had a blister and I said no , I need to change my socks right now because there's some sand in my socks . I said I need to make , I need to look to check at the blister out and we taped the blister and it was fine .
And I got other blisters when I was out there by myself , but they were all recoverable . There was so much I learned and truthfully , I talked to Agatha about it . I need to write it down so I don't repeat it . There's a lot she'll help me remember and there's a lot that we share , so I don't . So I'm repeating this .
The lot shall help me remember and there's a lot that we share , like like a hanging , a hanging pack that we hang in a tree or we hang on something that you can see all your medicine on one side and the other side has first aid and you can see it on little plastic , clear packets . It's , it's for women's necklaces or something like that .
But it's , it's three feet long and it's wonderful . You can see everything at once and you just hang it in a tree .
Oh wow .
It's phenomenal that you can if you can get in and out of an aid station . I saw the truth of that , just being able not to spend my time there , so did I want to sit ? I certainly wanted to sit in that chair . It was wonderful , and starting a course is always hard .
So that was the biggest lesson learned is minimize your time on aid stations , I guess , and don't skip any food and pay attention , make sure you're right .
There is so much time you can lose at an aid station just faffing around , sitting around . You get to chatting with people . Maybe there's a fire there that you're sat by , especially overnight , and you're like , oh , this feels pretty good right here .
You know , suddenly an hour and a half's gone by and you're like , oh no , I gotta get out and I gotta actually keep going here at some point . So , yeah , so much time you can lose , but I think maybe not so much in 100 miler , because I think most people can go through one night and sort of come out on the other side .
But yeah , food , hydration , sleep in longer races and then minimize as much as you can that aid station time . Kind of know what you're doing going in , have a plan , as you can , that that aid station time . Kind of know what you're doing going in .
Like have a plan as you're approaching that aid station and know what you need , get in and get out as quick as you can . But yeah , I think that's that's really cool . Are there more ultras glenn in your future ? You know , are you going for a hundred or longer or are you feeling the pull now back to back to road racing , do you think ?
well and I'm not feeling the pull back to road racing so much . I will do more road marathons . I definitely will . I'm one of my birthday presents this year is I asked I want to run the brain core marathon just because I've never run it , yeah , yeah and I've heard it's a terrifically run race . And and will I go back to Houston to run the marathon ?
Yeah , because Houston does their marathons well . Austin does most of their races very well , so I'll run more road races . But is there 125 miler in my future ? Yep , and I plan at some point I'll be picking your brain some more and asking you for some recommendations , as well as other runners . And just , will I get to the 200 ?
I think I will , just because we're all created to push ourselves and if we just sit where we sit , we're not going to get any farther . So God created us all to push ourselves and that's what I plan to do .
Well , goodness me , I applaud your bravery . Having seen a few of us go through 200 miles , to put yourself in that situation is pretty daunting standing on the start line of one of those races so definitely applaud the effort to get there at some point . I think you'll like it . It's a life-changing thing when you go through it .
But yeah , fantastic , I love it On a trail race . I most definitely am and I'm okay with that's where I'm at . On a trail race Might I get faster , I might , but if it doesn't happen , I'm okay with that . I like the back-of-the-pack group . I really do . They're very personable .
Yeah , and I think one of the things I love about the back-of-the-pack group is everybody's cheering for each other , as we've talked about . But if you find you can go faster or you want to go faster , everybody's all in for that . For you Like , hey , how do we help you go faster ?
Nobody feels like it's a competition or I'm not going to give you some advice because I don't want you to go faster than me . I just love that . We talked about that a little bit , but I think it's a terrific place to be and , realistically , back of the pack folks we're out there in some cases twice as long as the elites that are finishing .
So who are the real endurance athletes ? That's what I will tell you . We have to think about food and nutrition and sleep , and all that for twice as long as the people at the front . So it's double the stress and double the anxiety and no short amount of physical effort .
So that's why I love doing this stuff for Back of the Packers , because all those people chose to do that . They made a choice to go out there , knowing that they were going to have to put themselves in that position and deal with all of those challenges for an extended period , whether that's a 50-mile , 100-mile , 200-mile , whatever .
Every single person made that choice , knowing who and where they were from a physical standpoint , and I absolutely tip my hat to every person that goes out there and stands on the start line of these things , choosing to endure the name of the podcast .
This is why right , Because I just think that choice , in the society we live in , where everything is about ease and convenience , where you can order your lunch on an app and it gets delivered to your door , do something difficult . Learn something about yourself . Challenge yourself a bit difficult . Learn something about yourself , Challenge yourself a bit .
I love that aspect of it . Now , Glenn , one of the things we like to do on the show as you may know if you've been listening to an episode or two is to invite guests to choose a song to add to the free Choose to Endure Spotify playlist .
Typically , it's something family-friendly , something that might lift you up , motivate or just keep you moving while you're out on the trail . Did you have a song that you would like to add to the playlist , either from the Grasslands 100 that got you moving , or just , in general , a song that resonates with you a little bit ?
Well , the song that I'm picking is actually both Awesome , so I actually I didn't wear music the entire Grasslands 100 , either talk to people or whatever . I watched one individual
¶ Back of the Pack Camaraderie
singing to himself because his phone had died . However , I went through an aid station and they had my favorite song by Elton John . I'm Still Standing .
Oh , brilliant .
It , just it inspires me when I hear it Every time . My daughter , aurora , her and Agatha and I were marshalling a race a couple of weeks ago , the Prickly Pear 50K , and they were out there singing it and it seems to inspire a lot of runners . I just it's , it's a quick beat and it's elton john . I don't know that .
He knows how to do a bad song well , no , for sure .
I mean , everyone loves some elton john , don't they ? And what a great message as part of an ultra run as well . Like I'm still standing , I'm still here , right , the race hasn't beat me yet . I love that messaging , despite the fact that it's a very what do they call it ?
Toe tapper you know , you can definitely tap your feet to that song , but I love the messaging behind that too . Great choice . We'll definitely get that added so that others can enjoy the song just as much as you , and I definitely do .
Fantastic Well , as we look to wrap up this episode if I don't trip over my own little pebble there , glenn , I think your story is a terrific reminder that stepping up from marathons to 100 miler road racing to trail , it's as much about mindset as it is about mileage your ability to adopt and adapt your training , embrace those new challenges and then rely on
your fantastic wife as your support crew and go through the night unsupported for the first time . I think that just shows how achievable that leap can be . So if you're listening and you are a roadrunner considering running your first ultra , I think Glenn has some experiences and some key lessons that you can take with you .
Glenn , if there are folks out there wanting to learn more about the San Antonio Roadrunners or the off-road trail team , where would they go to do that ?
So if they just go ahead and Google San Antonio Roadrunners , the page will pop up .
Okay , cool .
Not to be confused with the University of San Antonio Roadrunners , which chose the same mascot . Oh who came ?
first San Antonio Roadrunners .
Yeah , it'll pop up , and what it does if you shootners , yeah , it'll pop up , and when it does , if you shoot a coaching question , it'll go to my mailbox . However , it's a great group of folks , very encouraging On those days you don't feel like running . They'll be out there for you On the days you do .
Some days you'll be the encourager and some days you'll be the encouragee , which is the beautiful thing that I see about running , and the bottom line is we all get better and more healthy when we're out there and we're taking this opportunity to get out on the roads or the trails and run .
Yeah , absolutely , Glenn . Where do the roadrunners run ? Is there a location that the trail runners go and the actual roadrunning group ? Do they kind of base themselves in certain areas ?
So they base themselves . The road runners meet in different areas all around San Antonio and then there's meetups . If you go to the San Antonio Road Runner page , there's meetups that are free . You don't have to sign up for the group , you can just meet other runners out there and they get you some safety . All right , cool , yeah , the off-road runners .
A lot of times we do run within San Antonio , but a lot of times we like to get outside of San Antonio and hit some of those Texas State parks which are beautiful .
Oh , out there in Bandera , exactly , that is a really beautiful but very challenging place to try to run slash hike . If you've ever tried to go and run that race , the Bandera 100K is held out there and boy , that is some challenging terrain . Make sure you put something over your legs , for those cacti out there . Love it Brilliant .
So , folks , if you're browsing the internet , don't forget to subscribe to the show here too , while you're looking for the San Antonio Roadrunner link . That way , you'll get notified each time a new episode drops , and if you're enjoying what you hear , definitely consider following , sharing and leave a review . That would mean the world to me .
Your support helps grow . The podcast connects more runners to this amazing ultra community that we've been talking about here with Glenn and spreads the word to those who could benefit from the information that we share with fantastic guests right here on the show .
You can find us on Instagram and Facebook at Choose to Endure , or you can visit us anytime at choosetoendurecom . I would love to hear from you , whether that is to say hello , suggest a topic or share your story . You can email me directly , if you'd like , at info at choosetoeensurecom . I absolutely adore interacting with listeners .
Just like you , it's one of my favorite parts of doing the show , so definitely don't be shy about reaching out and saying hello . And so with that I will say until next time , run long , run strong , go check out Glenn and the San Antonio Roadrunners and keep choosing to endure .