I found myself being addicted to it, where I'm like, okay, oh, it's been.
Too peaceful for two weeks.
Okay, we need to get in a fight or something, you know, and I'm like, why am I doing this to myself? It's self solmitaged, you know what I mean.
We have such derogatory names for people who are attached to drama or dependent on stress, as opposed to actually understanding this is truly an addiction. There's a sense of power that actually comes from being in the throes of drama, and it's intoxicating.
It just makes you feel ALIVEE for a second.
Happy Monday, Welcome back to the podcast. I hope you guys are feeling great. I am feeling I'm feeling good. I can't complain. I have a lot on my mind. I've been very pensive.
The past couple of weeks. But I feel good and I'm.
Happy, and I think this week's episode is going to be a really good one and one you'll find interesting because it's about our.
Addiction to drama, y'all.
Today's guest is going to explain to us what that means, what it looks like, and how we can deal with it. So stay tuned. This is Cheeky's and Chill. Okay, So our guest today is the wonderful doctor Scott Lyons. He's a holistic psychologist, an educator and author of the new book Addicted to Drama, Healing, Dependency on Crisis and Chaos in Yourself and others.
Ooh, Scott, Hello, welcome, How are you.
I'm great, How are you doing.
I'm fabulous. Congratulations on your new book.
Thank you so much.
I love it.
I love the title, which is why you are here because I want to talk about your book. I want to talk about all things drama.
We love the drama.
Yeah, right, Is it just like a human thing or is it just it is?
We all have some we're all on the scale of an addiction and drama to some degree. And right it's entertaining. There's like we get something out of it too. It's not all bad, as we'll probably talk about.
Yes, okay, so let's just let's dive right into it. I think it's super fascinating. I did reality TV for what about ten years, and it was we were the first Latin reality show, so I'm very proud of that. But as the years went on, I felt like they wanted more and more drama like stuff was being created that I was like, why why can't we just And I even see it with my post sometimes, so I'll post something super positive on Instagram and it doesn't get as many like interaction.
It doesn't get a lot of interaction.
It's to say when I post I don't know, like my ass or something, and it's like, yeah, you know, the more skin And I'm like, dude, I just wrote something so beautiful my past post and you guys ignored it.
Why tell me why it's true?
I mean, there are certain emotions that garner or get more attention, so like fear, aggressiveness, and seductiveness, like these are evolutionarily the things that grab our attention the most, and we're going to attend to them. And this is the danger of media in general. It is because they know this, so they're going to produce content that elicits the most amount of attention they can and it has a cost. It has a cost, meaning like that's what we get inundated with.
Yes, And do you think that it's something that has been it's been like this for forever for a long time, or has it just been getting worse throughout the years or is it social media?
Like what do you what's your opinion on that?
Yeah? So I mean this, this sort of addiction to drama has always been here, like but in small doses and small amounts. But with the like, you know, the invention of social media, it became a stage to which everyone could perform their drama. And you know, there's something called, like, it's this interesting theory called attentional economy. So it's like it's basically saying, your attention is the most most important commodity we have in the world. So I will do
anything at any cost to get your attention. And what gets your attention is what we kind of talked about before, the like fear sexuality. It's something that will gets you a stress response. Yeah, And so anything I can get a rise out of you from is going to get your attention, and I win at a cost.
At a cost. Yeah.
And do you think it has to do with also like age or is it just because See the thing is when I in my earlier years, in my younger years, I did feel like even in relationships, I felt like I just I get I used to get that high of like, Okay, why is everything so peaceful.
Okay, let me just try to pick a fight or something.
And I grew up and I saw my mom go through that with her relationships, and it could be that, but I found myself being addicted to it where I'm like, Okay, oh, it's been too peaceful for two weeks. Okay, we need get in a fight or something, you know, And I'm like, why am I doing this to myself?
It's self solitaged, you know what I mean.
It's so many things like yeah, if it's been modeled for us, if inter I mean, we're all so familiar with interrupting our own peace, Like when was last time you took a meditation class or a yoga or bath or walked through like a beautiful flower garden and started thinking about like what you have to do next, or a fight you had with someone, or even making up a fight in your head, or thinking about what you
have to do for work on the following day. It's like, no, it's so hard for us as a culture, in our urgency culture, to be at peace, but especially if it's been modeled by our family members, where it's like if fighting in high intensity and chaos and crisis is the love language is the currency of love, then we will mirror that in our own relationships.
Yeah, that's what.
And then I went to therapy and you know, and it was, wait, this is not healthy and I want to break if you want to call them generational curses, like I want to be different, and now now I find myself.
It just makes me feel I don't know if.
Anxiety is the right word, but if there's just too much drama or too much like even gossip in a table, I just I'm like, ugh, I'll go to the restroom or I'm just like, you know what, I don't know. I don't have the mental space. Maybe that's another thing. I feel like I don't have a lot of mental space anymore now that I'm like in my thirties, I'm like, uh, hold on, like my brain, I have other things I have to worry about. So I'm thinking, I wonder if it'll just get better as we get older.
I think there's that I think you've clearly done the work that like that's a sign of healing, where it's like something inside of you, the alarm system is like, actually, I don't need this extra stress. I don't need this chaos. I don't need it anymore, and it doesn't feel right, it feels toxic. And so like what we might call anxiety, it's just your internal alarm system that says, none of this shit no more. And that's a deep sign of healing.
I mean, before that, it's often like we get bored and we have to like tolerate the boredom because we're so used to being in the fluctuations of life, of chaos, of gossip, of like, you know, all the things that disturb our peace, and there's something satisfying about it.
Yeah, you feel like a high.
You know, you literally are high. So it's part of like the stages of stress. In the first and second stage of stress, which is called activation and mobilization, which is like your body's getting ready to do something and then you do it. You actually release endorphins, you release pain relief in your body, and you get attacked. Yeah, so we get it really attached to the pain relief that comes with getting high off the stress, and we
become attached to it. And what's really fucked up is we get withdrawal symptoms when we don't have it in the shape of anxiety and boredom.
Oh my god, it's Okay, well that makes sense.
Yeah wow, you know, oh because where I was at before and now where I'm at now, and you said a key word, and this is like for the listeners. If you're out there and you tend to be drawn to like more drama on TikTok and all the social media, you know, maybe this is something, this is this is the the episode for you. But I mean, I'm not saying that I don't. There's there are times where I'm like, I feel toxic right now. I want to like I want some shit in my life. Yeah, I want to
stir some shit up, but healing. Do you do you feel that that that's probably what it is. It's is it safe to say, in other words, that people that are more addicted to drama or gossip or whatever, even cyber bullying, is that someone that I mean, is it safe to say that there they need some healing in their life, some meditation, some sin.
Yeah. Look, you're not an asshole. You're not fucked up just because you have some propensity for drama. Like if you like those relationships you had in your twenties where you're like, it's peaceful, I'm gonna stir some shit up. And then actually felt closer to them through like this, like the stirring, the chaos, all of that. It doesn't mean you're a bad person. And that's such an important thing because like we have such derogatory names for people
who are attached to drama or dependent on stress. We call them drama queens. It's like a really inflammatory like attack on them as opposed to actually understanding like this is truly an addiction that people cannot help. It is a way that they are chasing the drama to avoid their trauma.
Okay, wow, to avoid their okay yeah, because it's something that just excites us for a second, you know, and you know, going back to my twenties and fighting with my you know, partners, it was just because I was like, okay, yeah, because the makeup sex is going to be so awesome. So yeah, let's just you know, fuction it up a little bit. And I'm like, but I'm like, oh my god, no, I want to be different or whatever.
I said it.
The other day, I was like, I'm not a tousica anymore. I'm not toxic anymore, you guys, I promise only once.
Why we dabble in the toxic drama shit. Yeah, and you know it's it has that excitement like there's a reason we all watch shit on TV, or like it's intoxicating. It's like the suspense of it, the stress of it. There's a sense of power that actually comes from being in the throes of drama, like when you're really in a heightened stress response, there is a release of all
those endorphins. But also you feel powerful like yes, I mean literally, there's shit coursing through your veins, hormones coursing through your vein to make you actionable, to make you powerful to do something, and it's intoxicating. Mm hmm.
It just makes you feel a life for a second.
You know, why did you decide to write a book on this particular topic?
Did something happen? Did you just feel drawn to it?
Like, tell us a little bit more about your book and then why the why behind it?
Well, I come from a long lineage of dramatics and I did not fall far from that tree. I grew up just chaotic. And it's not like again, like I wasn't a bad person. I just like you, kept finding these relationships that were toxic that I knew wouldn't work, that I could get into constant fights with I would make things bigger than they actually were. I would exaggerate, I would intensify my emotions, my energy, my attention were
all bigger than what actually needed for a situation. It would be like blowing out a birthday candle with a fire extinguisher when you have your breath right here, or it's starting to sprinkle outside a little rain, and you jump into a hurricane shelter. On the inside, it makes sense, there's like this total way in which your energy, your attention, your emotions are disproportionate to the action or what's needed. And on the outside everyone's like what the fuck, Like
what's wrong with you? But it's so justified. It makes so much sense. Like the internal reality is like this is my survival. Yeah, this is what needs to happen.
I have to get into that fight. And we don't recognize that we are the problem because our internal world is such chaos in avoiding the trauma, navigating the internal pain, that we feel so out of sync with the rest of the world that we go seek or create the circumstances the chaos on the outside world in order to match our internal world so we don't feel so alone in this fucking world.
Yeah, and is there like a special pill? Is there a solution? Is there a cure? Is this treatable?
You know what I mean?
Just because, like you said, there's nothing necessarily wrong with you. It's just I feel like, you know what, that's the world that we live in today, and it is a choice. I mean, I choose to say, you know what, now, I'm like, I'm in a different.
Space, you know.
But it does entertain you sometimes, you know, I love watching the Kardashians, and you know, there's like a lot of there's drama, you know what I mean, everywhere And I'm not gonna say I don't enjoy it, but I'm just like, what can we do or what do you suggest for us to be less addicted to drama?
Well, the first thing I always recommend is start to notice where you interrupt your own peace, where you feel like a little edgy around stillness or quietness. And it's not to say that that's what life should always be about as quietness, stillness, but it is a deep important part of our own process of restoring our own energy so that we can be adaptive and functional in this world.
It's like to say, if you never sleep, you would probably go, oh, there's something wrong with that, but it's so hard to recognize that you never actually rest or settle. So start to recognize, like go take them at a tation class and notice all the ways that you start to interrupt your ability to find peace or stillness or quietude or ease. And when you can start to recognize it, you can start to interrupt and go ooh, do I
want to challenge or interrupt this piece? Or am I safe enough in this moment to truly settle to find ease?
And I do want to be clear guys, anyone and everyone that is listening here, that there is a difference between being a cyber bully and that type of drama of like you're picking fights and you're out there like commenting bad things to people or just being.
Judgmental, yeah, or just being a douche.
Okay, you know what I mean, Like, don't be a douche, but I as yeah, exactly.
But it's like, why are you picking fights? Like It's true. It's like I have people who troll me all the time on social media, and I think it's funny to be honest and sad because I have no reaction to it. I was like, Oh, you have no idea what it was like to grow up in my household, So my DearS, nothing you say could even get a rise out of me.
Yeah, you're like whatever, whatever, bless.
You for trying it, and you're just not witty or funny enough to actually get a response from me. But I also don't like. There was one time someone was writing in It was a couple of months ago, and I started writing a response and I was like, Oh my gosh, what am I doing. I am joining into their chaos, And I was like, I don't need that in my life. I'm having a great fucking day and doing this. I'm gonna think about it later. I'm gonna
go tell all my friends what I wrote. I'm going to screenshot it and put it into my stories, And for what, it's going to keep the energy of that shit alive, the chaos of that alive that I don't need and no one else actually needs. Absolutely, the best medicine is truly not engaging.
That's what I was gonna say. You have the choice of either engaging or not. And in the beginning of my career, I got so much crap. I got just oh if it wasn't oh you're fat, you can't sing, just so much stuff and it would really hurt my feelings.
I'm like, why are people so mean? Like they don't even know me?
And I would just say it would really make me sad because I would never do that, like honestly, I wouldn't sit there and be like, oh you have I don't know just anything.
I just you know.
So it just took me a while to understand, and I used to engage and I used to say, you know what, you don't even know me this and is that.
We would go back and forth and it would rob so much of my.
Time, my value time, and my energy, my mental space until I just realized, dude, there's something going on there that I'm not going to be a part of and I'm not going to give it more light, you know, because I'd start realizing there were people that would call me fat and I'd go to the profile and they were sometimes even bigger than me, and I'm just like, what are you doing?
That is not nice.
You shouldn't call anyone fat, even if you think they're fat, and it's just like dude, so that I'm like, okay, then I'm not going to take it personally, but it was hard to get to that point and get over that little hump, to be honest.
It's so hard. And first of all, you're amazing, and it speaks so much to your own fucking journey of being able to be so entrenched and in the like the tornado of their chaos because they need that. They need that to feel in relationship to other people, I need you to be at my pain level so that we can relate. It's truly, it's what's called weaponized empathy.
And it's like, I'm in such deep pain. I need you to feel my pain because that's the only way I can actually understand connection and relationship.
Yeah, and you know what that's now I pray for those people. I'm like, you know what, I live in the Universe's hand, in God's hands, because that's wow.
Yes, that's what it is.
You know.
I'm like, you know what, something's going on? Or even with road rage, you guys. I you know someone before I'd be like, man, f you and you know they would cut me off or flip me off or something, and I'm like, oh whatever, I literally I go blow my kiss, baby, I swear I'm just like, I'm not.
Even trying to be petty.
I'm just like, you know what, Bibyby, I'm not going to let you ruin my day. I am too busy, I have too much going on, and you're not going to function up for me, you know.
And on the flip side of that, it's like it's you know, us walking away from that chaos. The people who instigated is also kind of sad because it's like that is their way of trying to connect of related. It makes no sense because it's just about making sensation. It's about them having this deep experience of chaos and crisis and you know, stirring shit up so they can somehow in that world of chaos feel connected.
Yeah, give us some type of satisfaction.
Yeah, satisfaction. You know in my family, like when things were bad, that's when you were most seen. That's when you were most attended to. And so like when I was sick, when I would get in trouble at school, when I would pick fights with my sister or other people, I got attention. So that becomes my currency of love. I go in my brain wires going, oh, when I
stir shit up, when I'm not okay. When things aren't okay, when I'm a victim whatever it is, that's when I'm truly going to be seen and that's what I carry into the rest of my life. From my childhood.
Well, you guys, listen to that. That is that is huge.
A lot of it has to do with our childhood and the attention that we got, and thank goodness, my mother was very tough. She was just kind of like if I was trying to act up to get attention, it was like it was not happening. She's like, especially with stuff that I went through as when I was younger, like sexual abuse and stuff, She's like, I'm not going to let you victimize yourself. You're not. No, we got to keep going. It is what it is, and I'm
so grateful for that. It's just kind of like, this is a hard knock life and you got to keep going. But I do see that in other people that I know, and I won't say names. You know that I'm like, oh damn, it has to do with and there's nothing wrong with it, guys. It's just recognizing it and just saying, okay, what makes me happier. Basically, at the end of the day doesn't make you about a per it's just let me if you want to heal it, if you want
to live a more peaceful life, that's on you. You got to recognize it now, Scott, since you are from New York and I know you guys are like again, super straight up. We're going to talk about a touchy subject and maybe people are you gonna get a little weirded out. But do you feel that women are more prone to drama than men? Or is it the same or is it men more than women.
I love this question because I think people have such an opinion coming in and they want me to validate that opinion. It was on this talk show where this guy who's total douche, just a total fucking sexist douche, which is not my vibe, and he was like, don't you think women are more dramatic than men? I was like, No, what I think you're doing in the question is dramatic and trying to get me to put logs on your fire of drama and I'm not interested.
I love that.
What I will say is in a culture where there are often gender norms, like men do it this way and women do it this way, we often follow suit, not that it's actually that way, Like it's more acceptable quote unquote for women to share emotions, then the drama might be intensified and exaggerated through the vehicle of emotions.
If men are more expected to go do like crazy shit like jump out of a plane and you know, like whatever broia other shit that I've never done, then then the extremes, then the drama, the intensification, the exaggeration, the you know, disproportionate reactions are going to show up in those ways. It might show up in fights, it might show up controlling, it might show up and jumping out of a plane or bungee jumping over and over again. It's but it has It doesn't matter what the action
or the vehicle. If the drama is, it's all about what is it doing to your nervous system. What is it doing to your and your physiology and your brain. It's all creating this REVVN stress response that you're living off of, like a fucking battery pack.
Damn. I love that you're just like boom, this is what it is.
And now that we're on this topic, Okay, guys, I don't know if you know, hopefully guys like men listen to my podcast, but men that listen to my podcast, Okay, I want you guys.
I just want you guys to know something.
Yes, as women, we're just yes, we're more emotional, we're more connected to our emotions, whatever you want to call it. But please don't ever tell a woman are you on your period? You must be pmsing.
Dude. I cannot with that. I cannot with that.
Also, every single fucking human on this planet has hormone cycles. So sis men or whatever you want to call it, if that's you know where we're going. It goes on three month cycles versus one month cycles, and so every sis man also has certain time periods where they have hormonal flexes and responses to those hormonal flexes. So it's an absolute asshole thing to say to anyone as supposed to just been like, hey boo, where are you at, Like, what's happening? How you feel? And what do you need?
You good?
You know you're good?
Yeah, come here, let me give you a hug, you know.
Yeah? Okay, I just wanted to say that because I was say wait before I appreciate it. Let me just let the guys know, you know, it's not cool guys. Okay, we go through a lot as women. Okay, So anyways, well, and it's so genderized.
I mean, like we have the term, the vernacular term drama queen, but no one says like drama king or drama they you know, like the the you know, it's so specific and and so like it's in our language system. How expected that drama is in a specific gender when it's it's not. It's absolutely not because the It's like it's like saying one addiction only belonged like the alcohol addiction only belongs to one gender.
I love that.
I love that you we just cleared that up. It's not about oh, women are more dramatic than men. No, I just feel like it just has to do with our internal stuff, you know, whether you have a penis or a vagina.
Yeah. Look, and if you were someone who grew up in a household where emotions were repressed, suppressed, you know, locked down, or certain emotions were locked down, then the expression of it by another person is going to seem bigger because yours is so small. Yes, it's all about perception.
It's all about perception, you guys. Okay, how do you deal with someone who's addicted to drama because it could be tiring to be pulled into that.
Yeah. Look, if I ask every one of your audience members, do you know someone addicted to drama, They're all going to raise their hand, maybe both hands probably and jump up and down and be like this person, this person, and yeah, like you. Even right now, you can think of a few people. Now if I said to your audience, now, raise your hand if you're addicted to drama, most of
them would not raise their hand. You and I are being very transparent because we've gone through the healing process and are able to go like, oh shit, we were attached to that shit, we were dependent on that. But the majority of us are going to be focusing on how to deal with other people who are addicted drama. How do we conserve our energy? And it's a really important question because here is something crazy. An addiction to drama or someone who is constantly in stress is contagious.
It is physiologically contagious. If I start to get anxious and stress out, I'm getting nervous because I'm talking it with celebrity. That you would and you know you're going to you have these special neurons, this special part of your body that actually start to pick it up register and mirror my response. And that's so crazy, right. And So when we think about, like how do I deal with someone who's addicted to drama like my mom, my sister in law, my brother, my whomever, my teacher, my
blah blah blah, it's not just walking away. It's also dealing with the fact that we are having a similar response in our body as they are producing as part of their own addiction to drama distress.
Yeah, And like I said earlier too, like I have a few people and I take them in doses or sometimes I'm like I love this person and I accept them for who they are and I'm not going to judge your criticize, and I don't want It's not like I don't want them in my life.
I just don't engage.
And also I mentally and emotionally prepare before I hang out with them, just kind of like cover myself. I do it like mentally spiritually, and I'm like, okay, I have meditated. I'm good, and no matter what happens today, no one else should be able to disturb that because I have already centered myself.
I've learned yeah.
And if there's just someone that's completely toxic and it's just not good for me, then that that is so different from oh, they're just you know, they're just like they like cheese, may they like this, they like that, whatever. You know, If the person's toxic, I'm like, I'm so sorry.
I love you.
I'm gonna love you from far away. You're just not good for me. But I do have a friend, and yeah, that's basically what I do. I'm just like, Okay, I'm gonna mentally prepare because I got to hang out with this person and that's it, and I'm okay, it doesn't affect me the way it used to.
That's another sign of deep healing is where we can be resilient in the face of other people's chaos and crisis and be like, oh, I'm not going to be pulled in to your tornado of crisis. I'm just I'm going to keep grounding and anchoring myself. I'm going to do the work on me so that if I want to be in relationship to you, I can be. I'm gonna set my boundaries. I'm going to be like, babes, I love you, I have a half an hour for you, or you know, it's really We're going to go take
a walk. I'm not going to be stuck in a room with you where I can't motor and move some of my own reasons sponse that I'm having about you. Yeah, so I go we go take a walk around the lake, or hey, I love that you have or I totally hear you have a lot of stuff going on in your life. It feels hard. I get that. I also need from my own preservation, like ten minutes of us talking about like the good of the world, or like
some cool shit that's happening. A TV show that's actually like feels positive and exciting, whatever it is, or like this podcast I just listened to about drama. Yep, whatever it is. Yeah, whatever it is. It's like, you are in charge of your own health. If you want to be with someone or be in proximity to someone who is addicted to drama, take your power.
Back, Yes, yes, take your power back. And there is so much power in saying no, thank you. And you know what, I'd rather not talk about that, you know, or I don't want to hear about it.
Can we talk about something else?
Like the way Scott just said like, there is just so much power in that and just you know, and that person doesn't respect it, that's an indication that maybe you shouldn't hang around or be around that person if they can't respect your decisions and your wishes.
Scott, thank you so much.
Honestly, I enjoyed the conversation and I know my listeners will too. And I want you to please share your social media. Where can everyone find you? Do have a website?
Tell me all of it?
Oh, thank you well, first of all, thank you and thank you for your interest and your radical transparency. Yeah, people can find me. I'm on social media's at doctor Scott Lions. Dr Scott Lions. I have a website if you want to take a quiz about are you addicted drama? Do you know someone addicted drama? There's a quiz on my website. It's kind of fun. I can love that.
I love quizzes, by the way, you love quizzes.
All right, I'm going to send you the quiz and we are going to compare our answers. Compare answers from like now versus when we were in our twenties.
I love that.
Oh my god. Okay, yes, and that's at dr Scoutlions dot com as well, and you can get the book wherever you want, wherever It's books are sold.
And yeah, yeah, check it out.
It is called Addicted to Drama, Healing, Dependency on Crisis and Chaos in yourself and others. You guys, so check it out. But you, guys, thank you so much for listening. And as you know, I like to leave you with a quote, and the quote is, those who spend time looking for the faults and others usually spend no time to correct their own.
Damn play that back, rewind that.
Okay, that's yes, Mike Drop. Yes, thank you guys so much for listening. I love you guys, and I'll see you here on the next episode of Cheeky's and Chill Best those guys, do you need advice on love, relationships, health emas. I'm so excited to share with you that my Cheeky's and Chill podcast will have an extra episode drop each week.
I'll be answering all your questions.
Just leave me a voice message Monday. All you have to do is go to speak Pipe dot com slash Cheekys and Chill Podcast and record your questions.
I can't wait to hear from you. This is a production of.
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