My mom grew up with going to therapy is a weakness. Now it's being more normalized now people understand, but it's like it's the best thing that ever happened to me. What exactly is trauma?
Trauma is a subjective definition in some way, because I cannot tell you if your traumatized or not. This topic of post traumatic growth is precisely for people that have gone through difficult experiences like you, and they turn this pain into a purpose.
Yes, Hey, what up, y'all? Welcome back to my podcast, Cheeky's in Chill. Today's episode is going to be a little heavy. That's because we're going to be talking about trauma, but not in the typical way. Yes, we're going to talk about what trauma is, but we're also going to talk about some of the so called gifts of trauma. And we have a really great guest with us today, so let's.
Get into it.
This is Cheeky's and here with me today is clinical psychologist Edith Shiro. She's based in Miami and she has a private practice there where she specializes in trauma. She's also the author of the book The Unexpected Gift of Trauma. Doctor Hiro, Thank you so much for being here.
Thank you, Thank you so much for this invitation. I love sharing time with you and spend them with your thank you.
You're so sweet, You're so sweet. Thank you. I'm so excited. I mean, I have so many questions for you, but I want to start off with your background. What interested you in, you know, studying trauma.
I always have this very professional answer, but I also have a very personal answer, and my answer is that I come from a family of war survivors, ho local survivors. My grandparents were in concentration camps. My other set of grandparents are refugees from Syria. And I am myself, like as you know, and you probably too, a immigrant in
a few different countries. So that experience of going through traumatic events and then living it myself in some way, I mean, I have a few traumatic experiences, but myself having informed me not only for my personal of obviously
in my personal life, but my professional work. So I've always had this curiosity, you know, in the community that I was living in Venezuela, of like how all these immigrants and people were adjusting to the country, and a lot of them came from war torn countries, and you know, difficult journeys to get to South America, And that was always my question, how do people survive? How do people
do this? How come some people do so well like my grandfather, for example, and some people do so bad like my grandmother, you know, Like it was this conscioust and I was super curious of the human condition.
So how old were you when you realize this? When you realize I want to study trauma?
So so I've always been interested in psychology ever since I was a little girl, and people in my school always called me like the psychologists, and people would come to me and to ask me questions, and I was very curious about the human condition. Also when I had to formalize my years of study, there was always a research question, and my questions always came to how come some people have more and more in touch with their
feelings and some are not? Why people having personality traits that help them drive in life and some people stay stuck? Like I've always had these questions. And also my doctoral dissertation twenty five years ago was on post traumatic growth. So really my book, I wrote this twenty five years ago already, like all this research and all this stuff was already Yeah, so it's been really my interest to my life.
Oh, I love that's what you were born to do this. You were born to do this, and that's and I'm asking how old you were because I've wanted to study psychology since I can remember, since I was in high school because I was actually molested by my dad, and I started going to therapy at twelve, and I said, oh my gosh, this really helped me. I'm a different person after therapy. I want to help people. Of course, life changed and I had to help my mom and I wasn't able to go to school. But I'm like,
darn it, Hey, maybe it's not. It's never too late, you know, maybe I could, you know, and still do it because it's something I'm very passionate about.
No, thank you for sharing the tickets. Thank you for sharing that. And I'm actually very impressed that you were in therapy at twelve. That doesn't usually happen because parents are not usually that aware that being in therapy is so helpful, especially when you've had an experience like that.
Yeah, and you know what it was the police department, I believe, or the doctor that I went to see because my mom she grew up with going to therapy is a weakness sort of thing, right, you know, so she didn't she didn't know any better. So to her, it's like, what do you mean you need therapy? That's for someone that's not mentally okay, And it's like now it's being more normalized. Now you know, people understand. But it's like, it's the best thing that ever happened to me.
It was going to therapy, which is why it sparked that in me. So anyway, that's why I wanted to ask you so thank you for sharing. Now I know you were born to do this.
Yeah, but actually, but actually I'm curious why you say that, because you know, this topic of phostraumatic growth is precisely for people that have gone through such difficult experiences like you, and they turned this pain into a purpose. Then they turned you know, the one becomes the medicine. Yeah, the breakdown becomes the breakthrough. So you're such a beautiful example of phostromedic growth.
Thank you, Thank you. That's what I had to do. You know, I was very shy to talk about it for so long, and I said why, I mean, let's just keep it under wraps. And my mom was the one that helped me with that and said, you know what, You're going to help other little girls. And from then it just something just clicked in my mind and I said, yes, I have to help people. This happened to me for a reason because God knew I was going to be able to get out of it to help other people.
And it's like you said, I turned it into a purpose into something positive. So if you can explain to me and to my listeners, what exactly is trauma?
Yeah, So I get asked that question all the time, and I love it because trauma has been changing in its definition. Maybe fifty years ago, we will talk about trauma, refer to the soldiers that would come from war, from the Vietnam War, from the you know, and they'd say, oh, yes, that somebody that is traumatized. That's when the definition of post traumatic stress disorder became into like the diagnosis, the clinical diagnosis of psychiatry and psychology. That's when it got
more accepted. Right in the nineteen seventies, I would say, But then as we move along and we learn more about the traumatization and the experiences that are difficult for people, we've expanded at least in the way that I work, we've expanded the concept of trauma, and in my book, I offer that definition of trauma that is any overwhelming experience for which we don't have the tools, and any experience that shatters your belief system about yourself, about others,
and about the world right and then you have to like rearrange who you are and who other people are and how the world functions at that moment. You don't have the tools, you don't have the resources to really comprehend. And it can be like a big thing. It can be a work, It can be earthquake. It can be sexual abuse, it can be an accident, can be the loss of a loved one, but also cheekies. It can
be small things. It can be the microaggressions that you live when you walk down the street and you're being rejected or discriminated against, or when you're being bullied in school for many years, or when you get divorced and then all of a sudden you lose not only your partner but also your friends, or when you don't get invited into your friend's house and then you know, all your girlfriends you know stop talking to you. Like these are things that for some people are very traumatizing, for
some people are not. And that's why trauma is a subjective definition in some way, because I cannot tell you if you're traumatized or not. I mean, you are the one that can tell me. You know, what they did. The pandemic was very traumatizing for me. Okay, maybe for me it wasn't, but for you it was super traumatizing. So I'm not the one to like define for you it's traumatic or not. So that's why I want to expand the definition.
I love that. I love that because I think so many people need to also be okay with My experience is different from yours, and it's okay, it's not. That's why I don't like people saying sometimes, oh, you're so dramatic. Wait a second, it didn't. It affected me in a different way like you said. For instance, the pandemic, some people thrive, some people loved it. Some people were just traumatized, like you said. So I love that you explain this
because I don't want people to feel ashamed. If anything, we all deal with things differently, So I love that. I want to also ask you, like, how do people know when to seek help?
Yeah? So I always think that being in reallyglationship is the best meaning, like being able to express how you feel and identify your emotions and being able to be getting validated is always important. So you don't have to
wait until you're very traumatized for that. But one of the signs that we can see is if you're feeling triggered by things that happen in your life and you have like disproportionate reactions, if you are having recurrent nightmares, if you're having hyper arousals, if you're constantly paranoid at what's going on, if you're having the typical fight, slight or phrase response in your everyday life, and I can
tell you more about that. If you are repeating a behavior over and over and over and you don't know where where's that coming from. It's like I know I'm doing this wrong, and I keep falling into it, and I keep doing it and I can get out of it. If you're having addictive behaviors, you know, addictions are invariably a response to a very traumatic event earlier in life. So all these things are signed of like traumatic ev and then you have to seek help.
Okay, So you guys, you guys, hear that, okay, And I don't want anyone that is listening to feel like something is wrong with them, like they are broken. We all go through things, you guys. I have gone through a lot of things, and I think is just seeking help. And there's nothing wrong with asking for help, you guys. So just want to put that out there.
In my book, I offer these five stages of how to get there, and the first stage is a radical acceptance. And that's exactly what you did during the pandemic. You went into that place of halls and say, Okay, let me look at the situation in the face. Let me be honest, like radically honest with myself. Let's put a name and identify what's going on with me, what's going on with my marriage, what's happening in my life this time,
and let's call it for what it is. And that's when you really begin to do through this process of change, and that's when you're able to get that gift on the other side.
You know, Yes, oh my goodness, thank God, thank God for you, for you and for you. What can you tell us, like what prevents people now that we're talking about healing, you know, and coming out on the other side, like what prevents people from healing?
Yeah, that's a great, great, great, great question. So block number one is thinking that trauma is a life sentence and thinking, Okay, oh yeah, I was sexually abused. That's it I'm doing. I'm miserable, my life is going to be the worst, that have no way out, not knowing that there are other possibilities. Another kind of blocking is when the context and the people around are continuing to oppress, you know, the person and not allowing that prefer that
person to come out. For example, women that are experiencing domestic violence, if they live in a country which they're not even able to voice that to be validated for that, are they going to even begin to deal with trauma? You know what I mean? It's like they're in a country like, Okay, they have to be oppressed, they have to be abused, they are like not treated properly and not treated with the respect and the honor that it requires for another human being, you can even begin to
heal from trauma. And that goes for collective trauma too. Chikis. For example, we go our countries, our Latin American countries that have been in different kinds of oppression, dictatorship, or colonization. How can we even begin to heal from those traumas as a collective right if we don't acknowledge that, if we don't realize it, if we don't put a name to it, if we don't identify and say, okay, this is what happened, this is exactly what's going on, and
have that radical honesty. So there are a lot of variables. Also, of course there are personality traits, there are other systemic situations contacting or that influenced. But yeah, these are some of the things that really block the being able to or heal.
Okay, and do you think, like, for instance, to take away all those exterior things. You know, the first step would be and I mean this is something I believe, but the first step would be accepting, accepting, Okay, this happened. What can I do? Correct?
Absolutely? The first step is, you know, stop ruminating about it. You know how a lot of people, I mean, I used to do this. Also, It's like you stay in that thought and it keeps repeating, I'm not good, I'm not good. I mean, you know, this is horrible. The worst is going to happen. That kind of rumination is not helped people that tend to really look at the very very negative, hopeless, and that's part of the traumatic experience, right.
So it's when you're able to put a stop for that, even if it's a pause, even because you're suffering so much. Usually this is when it happens that you're suffering so much and you're so uncomfortable and you're so like fed up, like you hear rock Bottom and you say, that's it, that's it. I have to do something different because I can't take it anymore. That's when people begin to change. That's when it's like it really touches something that says,
I can't handle it anymore. I've been an addict, I've been drinking, I'm about to destroy all life. Or I've been treated badly my life. I need to change my lit or I you know, my relationships are going horrible from one to the worst to the worst. I need to do something about it. So that's when the change begins to happen.
Yeah, So it's like saying, yeah, as the key, I'm not doing this anymore. I want to change, accepting it and seeking help you guys, and just really doing the work.
Which is the second stage, the second stage of you know what I'm proposing is this seeking help, which I think you did amazingly. I mean that's unusual.
Thank you.
Yeah, to really say, it's called safety protection. It's like, okay, I know what I have. Let me trust somebody. Usually it's a family member, Usually is a therapist, Usually is a guru, a group, an organization that you reach out and you say please, you know, I'm here, and you're being validated and you're being recognized. Like so, if you're twelve years old and you've sexually abused, it takes an adult that validates that experience and say, you know what,
I understand what happened. I'm sorry it's happened to you.
Let's get help.
But there's that recognition, that acknowledgment that something is going on. Like when you're a Let's say you have an addiction. Yes, you have an addiction to shopping, you know, to the phone, you know, to pornography. Yes, okay, I have an addiction. Let's talk about it. Yes, I recognize it. The other person is recognizing for you. Let's do something about it. Then start looking for what are the appropriate ways to help?
Yes? Absolutely, Oh my goodness, I'm loving this conversation. By the way, it's right up my alley is there. Do you have anything like type of exercises or ways that people can cope with it until they find the help and find a therapist, because I think that's the beautiful thing. You guys. All people that listen to me know that I'm a huge advocate for therapy and counseling and life
coaching and all that stuff. And it's important to find someone that you connect with, you know, and like doctor Cherrol said, someone that's going to recognize and validate your feelings. And I think sometimes that's all we need. It's like, Okay, you're not crazy, it's okay, I know you're talking about
let me help, you give us tools. But for someone that let's say, can't afford it or can't have it, hasn't found or can't find someone, what exercises or what can you tell them or tell us how to cope, how to you know, start the process.
Yeah, so listen, the trauma what it does? It fragments and isolates it. Really, that's like a major thing that does why because we are in shame, we are humiliated, we are embarrassed, like oh my god, this happened to me. How am I even going to talk about it? I'm embarrassed even with my own self, like looking at myself in the mirror for what I'm doing or for I'm being. So it's very difficult to break free from that. That's why I'm saying, like healings for courageous people, like it
takes a lot of courage to do this. And yes it's not always therapy. That could be the thing there, and not everybody has access to that, unfortunately not yet. Hopefully that will change. But you know, having a person a space that can be a safe space, a holding space. It's good enough. If you have a best friend that is willing to listen, not to judge, not to tell you what not to do, just to listen and to
hold you. If you have a yoga teacher that is wise enough to really sit with you and identify these things and listen to you and give you emotional support. If you have a family member, if you have a group of people in your family, if you have a group of friends that you feel comfortable enough, if you have a religious organization that's say or spiritual, it doesn't really matter so much what the context is and who the person is, but it has to be a place that is safe.
Yes, I agree. Feeling safe is so huge. You guys, tell us a little bit more about the book, just because I think it's a beautiful It's a beautiful gift in itself.
Thank you, thank you. I'm very, very very excited about it because it's been cooking there inside of me for all these years, and I finally, at some point, like three years ago, I was like, I have it right here in my throat and I need to get it out.
Oh my god, thank goodness, Yeah, thank goodness.
Yeah, I'm very very happy, and people have been very receptive and very grateful for that. The first part of the book is more like defining what trauma is, what post traumatic growth is, the intergenerational transmission of trauma, collective trauma. I talk about it, be genetics. I talk about a few different things to clarify, you know, and topics that people ask me all the time. The second part of
the book is the five stages. That it's very interesting because you can you can look at the book and see, like, Okay, which stage am I in right now? And there are a few exercises for each day each where you can be at the end of a book there's like a questionnaire like are you in post traumatic growth or not? So it's like a dynamic book in that sense, like you can open it at any page and say, Okay, let me see where I'm at with this, or let me look at you know, maybe this stage or the
next stage, or how he loves it flow. Yeah.
I was going to tell you because I'm kind of that type of reader. I'm a skimmer and I like books like that where I could just be like, Okay, let me see where I open it, and that's what my soul needs in the moment exactly. So I love that. And can you share just a few, like what a few gifts of trauma with us without giving up too much?
But no, but listen, I mean I think everybody that goes through their w own trauma and does the work of this process gets a gift, every single one. So every patient, every group, every community that I work with when they go through this experience. For example, I work with ninety eleven people, work with Cambodian refugees. I work with it and not remember in Miami surf site collapse
when ninety eight people died. Yeah, So even in like little moments like that, for example, a lot of the survivors created a sort of a community and became a family, you know, and that was incredible to see. And it's been a year and a half and people still are connected in that way. So, yes, it's a tragedy. It's horrible. I don't wish it or anybody, but what comes out of it sometimes is like people have rearranged their lives. I had a couple that went through infidelity. This was
during the pandemic, and they were desperate. You know. She was freaking out and saying, I can't believe this has happened to me. My life is destroyed. I don't believe in anything anymore. And I said, do you want to go through this process or do you want to separate? Because you can you know, like a lot of couples, you can just separate. And they said, you know what,
We're willing to do the work. They actually worked really hard to get this marriage, and we went through very dark places with the two of them, and we looked at different things. There are four children were like also, you know, incredibly aware of all the changes that were happening in the in the marriage and at the end, towards the end of this process, and of course this is an ongoing situation. It's not like everything is perfect. But they were like, Wow, I have a new marriage.
This is a new marriage because this person has changed. I have changed. I know him better, he knows me better. We have a different way of communicating, We understand what our priorities are, you know. So these are gifts that you get when you actually are willing to dive in and do this work. For some people, it's a spiritual awakening. And for some people it's like they find their life mission.
That's why you see, for example, the mentor that was an alcoholic, but he went through so much a drug and alcohol, so now he mentors everybody else or somebody that had a really difficult childhood experience with parents. Then they become like the amazing you know, summer camp counselor that works with children and heals all the children.
You know that these thing's happen, h No, absolutely, So basically it's something beautiful can come out of a traumatic experience and situation. Guys. So that's how I take it, and that's what I feel that I've tried my best to do in my life. Yes, I've gone through a lot of pain, but how am I going to turn that pain into power? So if you are going through something difficult, if you've lost a loved one or anything that we've talked about, I definitely recommend this book. I
think it's it's beautiful. I'm so glad that you wrote it and it's out and ready for people to read, because, especially now, more than ever, we need the help. And I say we because I don't know what's going to happen tomorrow. You know what I mean. Everything could be okay right now, but life is a roller coaster of emotions. You have ups and you have downs, and you have to write it and know how to deal with it. Even if you're not going through something right now, I
think the book would definitely help you. And it sounds a little cliche, Oh yeah, turn something into positive, But no, honestly, it's all in your mind. It's like not all in you around. But I'm saying like it's like for you to make the choice. I want to put in the work.
Like the couple that you said you mentioned, they said, Okay, we are deciding to stay together despite what everyone else says, and we're willing to put in the work and look now they have a new marriage, and that's that's beautiful, it's wonderful.
Yeah. I'm happy that you're saying choice, because it does take a choice, an attitude to confront these situations. I mean, I have an extreme example. I don't know if you've heard of Victor Franco. He was a psychiatrist from Vienna who was prosecuted in the war during the Second War, and he was in concentration camps and he after the war, he survived and he wrote this amazing book, The Man
in Search for Meaning. I don't know if you know this book, yes, yeah, yeah, And he created he developed this theory of this whole movement, this whole approach called loco therapy. And he says, when I was in the worst of the worst, in the middle of the war, in those camps, I was between life and death. I was thinking how I was gonna get out of this war, and I was going to give talks and I was going to give conferences and teach people about meaning in life,
and that of attitude. That change of attitude is what made a difference, because he said, you can get stripped of everything in life except one thing, except the willingness to choose how you're going to face the situation right. So not only that you get to have a purpose in life, but I think also one of the things that I see, Chik is that it's so beautiful is
that you have a new appreciation for life. People that have gone through difficult things and then they come out of it, they begin to see life in a different way. They appreciate the nature more, they appreciate their friends more, they appreciate their family. So those are gifts that you get out of this trauma. Another thing that happens is that your relationships become more deep, more meaningful. You're not so much into that superficial sometimes wahing, but you get
into like deep connections, deep connections with other people. Another thing that happens is that you're more ingratitude, Like you're very grateful for being alive, You're grateful for who you are. Realize that you have more strength so for the next situation that happens, So the next challenge that happens, it might be difficult too, but you have right but you know, I overcame this, I went through this, I can do this again.
It makes you stronger.
It makes you stronger, it makes you more resilient. Of course, it makes you say, I believe in myself because I was able to overcome this already and I know I grew from it. Another thing that happens is what I call this spiritual awakening, and that is an amazing thing. You know that. There's research cheek is going on that when people have gone through trauma and they connect spiritually more.
And I don't mean religious, it's not like an organized religion, but it's more like you feel like you're connected to a bigger thing, to a higher being, too, interconnected with the universe, a higher power, to a higher power. There's even biologically, there's also an indication people have a thicker cerebral cortex. They develop even physically, something changes in your brain. And that thing is so amazing because it's imagined that
a physical indication of your spiritual awakening. How powerful is that? Not only that, but also it actually is a protective factor against future trauma, against future challenges. So people that have developed this are already like having all these tools, these amazing tools that protect them for future challenges, for future and adversity and It's like, Wow, it wasn't that worth. It wasn't worth to go through this, ye know?
Oh my goodness. This is like confirmation for me that maybe this is why I'm such a spiritual person because I've gone through so much. And yes, like I always say, ah, yes, I'm a victim of child abuse. Yes I'm a victim of abandonment, and this has happened to me, But I don't feel sorry for myself. I'm not gonna victimize myself. I want to come out better and I'm like, how am I going to use this to help other people? And for me, I feel like that's become a mission
in my life and it has connected. And I feel like I'm one of God's favorite or the universe or whatever you believe in. Like i feel like I'm one of the favorites because I'm like, Okay, I made it out, I'm here, I am and then I see the world in a different way and this is just like WHOA, I'm on the right track. I have at most almost.
Movieing and it is amangan.
Yes, I honestly feel like I'm gonna be okay. And and I feel like you said, I feel ready, I'm like not that I'm saying I want something to happen, but if something were to happen, I feel like I know how to deal with it. I'm like, okay, I'll be okay, you know what I mean. It gives me more hope. I don't know, it's just it's it's wonderful. It's wonderful. I love it.
I love that you're sharing that chickis And can I tell you something else. One of the things that I've seen is that once you do this transformation in yourself, you are able to pass that on to the next generation. How amazing is that is that not only emotionally, not only like in your lifetime, but something happens in your body that registers all that all that changes, and even
in your DNA that it gets registered. So then next generations are gonna carry on that transformation, are gonna carry on that growth and that wisdom that you have because in the same way that trauma gets transmitted from generation to generation. Right when we have our ancestors go through war and through killings and through violence, and we carry
that and then we have that cycle of trauma. You know, if you were sexual abuse, your parents were and your mother was sexual abuse, and your grandmother was sexual abuse and your great grandmother, right, So it takes a lot to break that cycle. But also when you do that transformation and you have all those gifts, that also gets passed on into the next generation. So that's incredible that you, you know, think of it not just for yourself, but but for the people to come.
You know, yes, absolutely, where I'm like, yes, i want, I'm here to break generational curses, and I want to learn the lessons so that we don't pass it on to my children and the children of my children, I see, so on and so forth. So absolutely, yes, I wanted to quickly share like a little story because you were saying about like how once you go through trauma you see life in a different way. Right, we were talking
about that right now. And I'm not going to say her name, but I have I know someone who before she went through a very traumatic experience, she was out and drinking and having fun. She said, I'm young, I'm going to live my life, you know, Satano, And she got in a car with someone that was driving under
the influence of alcohol. They crashed and she became paralyzed, and she of course it's it's it's a huge thing to go through, you know what I mean, but through her pain, and that's something I feel that someone she did it so beautifully that yeah, she was very sad for a while, and then she started reading books and she took therapy and went to a psychologist and now she's like, yeah, I don't have my legs, but I
still have my eyesight and I can still speak. And she goes and she speaks to different people, and she changed that pain and that traumatic experience into something became her testimony almost I see, you know, part of like her testimony of going out and telling people, look, this is how I used to live my life. And then this happened. But now I'm even happier than I was before, which is I was like, whoa, you know what I mean. It taught me a lesson.
So, yes, the pain is inevitable, but the suffering is a choice. You know. We go through pain, right, but suffering we can choose if you want to suffer or not. It's unfortunate, you know that we sometimes we have to learn and we have to grow from so much pain. You know. And one of my questions that I always have, is it possible to do that transformation without that accident.
Is it possible to change our lives and to be in more gratitude and more wisdom and more awakening states and more consciousness without having to suffer so much?
And that's something that she also mentioned, And that's somethings I feel life tells us, and it's telling us slow down, you know, change your life, and then we're kind of forced. And she she says that she had missed. She says, there were a lot of signs that were telling me to stop drinking. I knew what I was doing, and I didn't listen. So I think it's it's definitely possible. We just have to listen and be aware. You know. I was going to ask because, oh, because, yes, your
book also talks about post traumatic growth. Correct.
Yes. I always ask people, do you know what post traumatic stress is PTSD? Everybody's like, yeah, we know, everybody knows. When I say, do you know what PTG is, which is post traumatic growth, most people don't know. And that's why this book for me, is so exciting, because it's really bringing that concept into the world. And of course
I didn't invent it. There was this very very intelligent, brilliant psychologist at the University of North Carolina that coined the term like twenty years ago, and it's post traumatic growth, which is really the positive changes that come after a difficult, challenging event and that brings on changes that bring on transformation in your life that is very meaningful.
And how exactly is it achieved or is it more of like a longer conversation.
Well, but that's why I was talking about these five stages that I really talk about in my book, and I say, you really want to achieve postraumatic growth, you go through these five stages. And by the way, these five stages, I didn't invent them. I'm more describing them because this is what I've seen people go over and over and over from the last twenty five years in
my professional my research. This is what happens. People go into this radical acceptance stage, into this awareness, then we can go into awakening, then we go into new narratives, then we go into integration, and then we go into wisdom and growth, and that's where you get to postramatic growth. And these are not linear stages. You know, you can go there's circle, or you can go back, you can go forward, you can go up you can go down,
but this is usually what happens. You can open the book and you say, oh, yes, I'm on stage three. I mean new narratives. This is what's happening to me. Oh no, I'm in stage four of integration. I'm already went through this tone. For example, you chick is your or in stage five? Great, you've been through that.
Ye.
Yes.
I don't know how you are in your in your divorce, I don't know what stage you're in, but in your sexual abuse, you're definitely in your stage five.
Awesome, stage five. So I came out of it, and I am grateful. I'm grateful honestly. Yeah, it was a tough, very tough moment for me, suspect those things I wanted to change about myself as well. It wasn't just him. Now I could see the things that I've done so or that I did. But I do have one last question, and quickly, I just so the people that are listening, do you have any tips for finding the right trauma therapist or psychologist?
You know, finding a trauma therapist is like shopping. You have to try a few different ones before you connect to somebody. And the most important thing is that you feel safe. So any therapist, of course, you know, make sure that the person is licensed, that the person has so experience, not necessarily have to have the most experience. When people have thirty years, you know, the experience are not as good as some people that have. But it depends who the person is and who you connect with.
But make sure that person has experience in working with trauma and that person makes you feel safe.
Yeah, and I love that. I love that you say safe. That's that's a very important word. You guys, so so thank you so much, doctor Chiro andio, you guys, see what thank You're wonderful and you explain everything so beautifully. And you guys, can you know, go out and get her book, The Unexpected Gift of Trauma. Actually, where can we find you on social media? Doctor Hiro?
Yes, so my book is The Unexpected Give of Trauma That Pass two Postraumatic Growth. You can find in Amazon, you can find in the Barnes and Noble, you can find in all the platforms, in Kindle, in audiobook, and of course you can find me at the Instagram, doctor redit Chiro, Facebook, the same doctor dit Shiro on my website www dot doctor Relihiro dot com or you can ask cheekysh she knows where to find me. Yes, I
love that, you know. I would love to continue the conversation and hear from all of you what you think about this topic and where are you at with this Yes.
And you guys know before we go, I do have a motivational quote for you, and the quote is if you have been brutally broken but still have the courage to be gentle to other living beings, then you're a badass with a heart of an angel.
Get where I love that.
Okay, I think it goes very well.
Thank you so much for this invitation. It was very very special, and thank you for sharing your experiences too.
Thank you, Klen and I hope you guys all found this episode informative and learned from our guests. Add Chiro doctor did Hiro? Should I say? And We'll be back with another episode of Cheeky's and Chill on Monday. Do you need advice on love, relationships? Health emails? I'm so excited to share with you that my Cheeky's and Chill podcast will have an extra episode drop each week. I'll be answering all your questions.
Just leave me a voice message Betterson Hard Monday. All you have to do is go to speak pipe dot com, slash Cheeky's and Chill podcast and record your questions.
I can't wait to hear from you. This is a production of iHeartRadio and the MICA podcast Network. Follow us on Instagram at michaela Podcasts and follow me Cheeky's That's c h i q u i s. For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcast, and check us out on YouTube.